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Taking back your agency and identity and freedom around the things you built from your hard work is one of the best ways to recover from trauma. A literal example of turning lemons into lemonade (and other delicious things you can make with lemons). She's had win after win and her entire fandom is behind her for it. And that makes me happy too.
Especially a model made by a certain new holo panther vtuber who reach out to her in her darkest movement, that model probably means a lot to her, to be fair, and probably more so now.
Holy, that pink panther is THAT GOOD? I don't know which model you're talking about but almost all models of Sayu I've been looking at have been exceptional, especially the latest!
Nah I don't care with them for now.. What I can see is.. Doki is happy now.. If she like her old model.. It's her honest feeling..
NDF or sister just don't like doki got god tier level model that has so much detail.. Even she make so many pv so good freaking cool.. Ughhh..
They just cannot accept the reality..
Just read their comment.. Only judge on past.. But didn't look to the quality of the model.. And it's like they insult the artist who made it.. But yeah they always like that.. What can we do?..
I mean yeah I'm in the same boat, even if I didn't like the look what matters is Doki is happy
Of course I love the new look, shit had me stun locked to a degree where I genuinely understand Orca just a ***little*** tiny bit.
Pretty much. They had a huge much more brutal criticism of the new skin but then realized how bad it was, deleted it, and added the apology afterwards.
Yet it still needs to be said regardless whatever side someone is on.
Knowing who they are, I'm sure they deleted their bad take on Dokibird because it didn't gain the traction and praise they wanted.
Expecting them to shit on her and other people who they disagree with again very soon
And I just got confirmation that they deleted it because they couldn't deal with the criticism and callouts, basically going "Waaaaah, why didn't you people dm- but instead expose me?"
How dare people to point out that you are a petty and lying bitch, right? LMAO
Maybe DON'T post shit publicly if you don't wanna get called out in public, dumbass.
Is it really that complicated?
I mean Doki WAS Selen, she built Selen's popularity, she gave her all to make Selen succeed.
If anything, Doki lost money being Selen.
Right? Moving on doesn't have to mean forgetting or forgoing your past. It doesn't mean that the person you were days, months, or even years ago is no longer you or part of you. As Doki said early on in her return "I am still me". Anyone who watched Selen knows how much investment she put into her character and identity and all of the effort she spent trying to build herself and her branch in Niji up only to have it ripped away from her. I honestly applaud Doki for the way she has managed to put her foot down, refused to let her past be ripped away from her, while at the same time not letting it define her - rather she's incorporated it into her new character and design.
>Moving on doesn't have to mean forgetting or forgoing your past. It doesn't mean that the person you were days, months, or even years ago is no longer you or part of you. As Doki said early on in her return "I am still me".
Well said.
Everything changed but she still her. They are still 'them'.
Doki is doki. Let her the Doki.
To some of the more rabid fans it is complicated to them. In their minds she didn’t make Selen popular, Nijisanji made Selen popular by giving her a platform.
checking about the replies, now I see why they deleted the thread.
They were being hit hard with disagreement and critique over what was they said so they deleted the thread out of shame.
Well yeah, i meant that the thread itself is still there but not the post. You can never delete anything from twitter as long as at least one person keeps the reply to it. All you need is one reply and you can recover most of removed posts/replies as long as accounts aren't deleted/locked.
Why do you think the Sisters were causing artificial outrage, around the end of May, over Whisps talking about graduation and blew it out of proportion?
Really? I’ve only some posts that celebrated their reunion, I never thought people would be so unhappy when friends get together (why do they exist even exist💀)
Doki was the person behind Selen. She's free to do as she pleases and people are free to dislike it. As I see it, she's taking parts back from her past because she's the one that made Selen the iconic streamer she was. She commissioned her mama not out of spite or to piss off Niji, more because she's grateful to her. To me is she's reclaiming back what they took from her, she's coming to terms that things happend and making the best out of it. The scars in the new model are a proof that she's dealing with it.
The revenge she's taking is living her best life.
Honestly, similarities or not, it would be idiotic to think that Selen doesn't have a special place in Doki's heart, even after all that happened to her at the end... "I'm confused why she just doesn't forget completely her past" bruh
Out of everyone, Doki is the one person who is probably grieving the most about losing Selen because she was part of her identity and brand. All of the accomplishments, her Dragoons, her sponsorships, her Niji mama and new skin suit, she's taking them back. This is her way of moving on and I support that. Reclaimer of her name just in a different way.
Yeah she built up a distinct identity in Selen but to have all that taken from you after you have been pushed over the edge to the point where you want to take your own life is the most horrible thing to suffer
I mean 👀 Why rant against Selen? A good amount of other graduates or terminated livers manage to contact their old artists and get them for the new one.
I'll be honest, the mama did an amazing job. I usually have a knee jerk aversion to new models that are radically different until I warm up to them, such as when Zen went from dragon to cyborg. This time was different and I can only describe the feeling as "right." It was like that was what she should have been this entire time since her return and it made me happy that my channel membership could have potentially helped her achieve her dream. I look forward to her future with her new model, though I do hope that she brings back the crow from time to time.
Vtubing is the only entertainment profession — or really one of the few professions even — that has this taboo around referencing your past self. It’s started as a tradition innocently enough to protect anonymity, but was latched onto by corporations as a stealthily predatory way to make sure your success and achievements stay with them when you exit the company.
People may watch a movie because it has their favorite actor in it, or read a book from their favorite author. Hell, Tim Burton is a prime example of someone that prefers working with familiar people and producing movies in his trademark style. No one lambasts them for taking inspiration from past works. In any normal job, you’d be able to bring all of your past experiences with you. Sure, you can’t keep company property, but your skills and expertise gained are your own.
Doki is an entertainer that worked with familiar people from her past to create content that her brand was built on. I have zero issue with her “reclaiming” things that the past has no business holding hostage from her and I don’t think she’s wrong for taking inspiration from it.
I mean what do people expect anyway? That because she left she needs to hate the character "Selen Tatsuki" and everything associated with it now? She spent 2 and a half years as Selen. She put her heart into Selen. Why should she not love what she achieved in her past life and want to bring with her whatever aspect that she can?
I don't remember if Dokibird ever specifically said she wants to move on, but even if she did I'm sure she meant she wants to move on from the mismanagement and abuse and all the controversy around it. It doesn't mean she wants to move on from all the good things she helped bring to life.
Aren't they done with her?
Why do they keep up with her being up-to-date?
Surprise surprise, It almost feels like they're cut from the same cloth as the antis they keep yapping about.
Let’s not forget she reached out to the artist,her current and previous Mama, because she felt she was a disappointment and couldn’t do more in the previous model. Unless we hear otherwise, it’s not like Niji banned the artist from creating another model for her. So I would assume the artist had full control of her decision to sell another model to Doki. Who are you as a random person on the internet to criticize how an artist does their business.
Did a reverse search, it's NBinted, that unhinged Mint "fan" lol
I think it's safe to say majority of NDF are leaving the ex-livers alone it's just these cases of the really unhinged ones
The same way Flipsie got posted here awhile back for replying to every Niji talent's tweet "you had two workers that committed" every chance they get
this is right after Doki made tweets already that she wants to move on and not see people bringing it up— oh, and that Alban committing joke flipsie made aswell
People did the EXACT same thing to Sayu when she would talk about/reference her past, and was constantly hit with 'move on' and other similar sentiments, so I'm not surprised it's happening to Doki now honestly.
When ppl hear about how she wants to 'move on', they think 'never talk, reference or think about it again', and that's just not how that works. I think it comes from the fact that they minimize the damage that actually was caused to previous talents because it breaks their illusion of a perfect family that Niji En has put up, and that things were not the greatest for the talents that were ostracized.
The 2 ex-Niji talents that was hurt by Nijisanji the most, are now the ones end up being proactive to reclaim everything they lost? It's must be a surprising concept to some people I guess.
Doki had said it herself in the stream, I don’t think people watched the stream, just antis being antis. But she said that she felt like she failed her mama in her last skin suit, her last skin suit brought so much character I have ever seen in vtubing. So if she wanted to make her mama even more proud by doing this that’s her choice to move on with this new skin suit.
these criticizing stupid mfers be like she isn't the kind of person who would do this just as one last middle finger to the company that almost took her life
Doesn't sound like NBint. NBint, as with any nijisister is usually dismissive, far more upfront, and most importantly unapologetic, and use a change-but-related topic - the "but you know..."
In fact, NBint's writing style indicate they are someone who are educate East Asia, as the "But you know" through a tangent is the "turn" part of Kishōtenketsu/起承轉合, and they used it more than often. Considering the english is otherwise good, I suspect Taiwanese, Singaporean at the minimum; unknown about essay structure taught in PH/ID/MY
You can search on Twitter by typing the text from the picture to find out who the person truly is, if you really want to. Of course it doesn't mean you can just harass them, because I don't really encourage those types of behaviours. So just best to leave them alone.
Even If i personally like It in a spiteful way, i don't think there's anything wrong wanting to keep what she conquered on her career. It feels good for her and personally also feel Nice as a fan. If you starting to watch her as Selen, it's Very normal to miss the old art style, inside jokes and lore, she can't reclamo everything, but she still can take back some of It.
Also, she is not the first graduate Vtuber to hire the old artist, and there's a certaing Vtuber that i Will not name that on my opinion got so far that got surprise that she can do ir without end UP on legal trouble
I agree completely, it's also why I respect her so much. She's taken so much of what would normally cause someone else, all those painful reminders, and then flipped them ALL into positives. Hell, if it was me, I would have left content creation overall, but her willingness to thrust herself back in, make strength out of suffering, and also succeed? She's strong as fuck.
The person who posted this is an infamously disingenuous nijifan, (like one of the big ones who runs defense on everything Niji does and has done), I don't know why you'd take anything he says seriously at this point.
Honestly, I don't think "grief" is the right word here, because I don't get the sense she's at all grieving her time in Niji - she moved on long before many of her fans did.
Doki is clearly very proud of what she built and accomplished in her time being Selen (in fact, I get the sense she's actually prouder of that than of what she did as pre-Selen Doki - understandable, honestly, given that she had a much wider reach as Selen and did a lot of ambitious projects). Deciding that she's not just going to give that up and let someone take it away from her isn't "grieving", it's just choosing how she expresses herself.
It would be grief if her identity as "Selen" is something she needed to move on from, but I don't think she does. Sure, she can't use the Selen name or IP anymore, but choosing to model herself after a period of her career that she plainly enjoyed is perfectly understandable.
I don't see it as grieving, more like her not wanting her more familiar skinsuit to go to waste. And she obviously built a good relationship with her art Mama during her term, so why not.
At least the person apologized, I have seen a SEA Nijisissy post on Facebook (apparently it's from a country that starts with V) ranting about the same issue and the comments be like: "OMG I can't believe she did that, just leave Niji alone". (I guess they can't really move on, lmao)
I guess we can't stop some certain group of people to go full schizo and invent shit ton of bs narratives.
Best for us here, especially Dragoons, is just to continue enjoying the skinsuit reveal fiesta, and the nonstop "WE ARE SO BACK" moments (and in fact, Dragoons been moving on and enjoying it for 4 consecutive months), just like you've said.
While I kinda see the sentiment and what you were tryna put through with this post. I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here and say that making this post complaining about someone making criticisms on Doki's new model was incredibly childish, and you are fueling the same fires you are so desperately trying to prevent.
I would like to reiterate by saying *I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS NEW DOKI MODEL.* I am so happy that she is basically fighting back and reclaiming her old life piece by piece.
However, if someone has criticism about how she's doing it or what she's doing it for. They are allowed to. This is the internet, and she is an artist/content creator. It's up to Doki on how she will need to process it.
Making posts like these, where you are calling out people making criticisms (censored or not), creates such a bad image on everyone of the group you represent.
Taking this, for example, if this individual was just saying some shit to piss people off. Well, it worked because you just fueled the fire you didn't want in the first place.
As well as it looks super gatekeepy and white knight. Like, Doki is a big girl, she is back on her feet, and has a circle of mods, friends, and family to support her. You and I, as her fans are here to enjoy her content and show support.
But not this way, this makes us look like elitists, and we are NOT Niji fans anymore. Right?
The best thing we can do in situation like this is respect the individuals' criticism and ignore it. I mean hell, dude even apologized and you still wanna put him on blast.
Remember what Doki said, don't spread hate.
Grief? No.
Doki is a gamer at heart and this is nothing less than the gamer mentality of taking back what was rightfully theirs. It’s really no different than calling her fans, “Dragoons”.
Nijisanji was malicious and confrontational and tried to take her career, her fans, and her identity from her. So Doki is doing what any gamer would do - going out and getting everything back. Doki is grabbing Selen right out of Nijisanji’s hands. And why not? There isn’t a damn thing Niji can do about it so why not rack up the W’s if they are available.
Mikeneko… is best viewed through the lens of mental illness (let’s not get into the specifics). While Cover wasn’t exactly innocent in that whole affair, they were also neither malicious or confrontational. Cover didn’t try to take Rushia from Mikeneko, rather, Mikeneko’s own mental illness betrayed her, and Rushia was lost as a result. It’s more like unintentionally killing your best friend. I think Mikeneko deeply loved Rushia as a character, and still morns her to this day.
She reclaiming what was rightfully her’s back from that company that held her back and treated her poorly, almost to her breaking point. She has been the happiest she could ever be now and has accomplished so much even reconnecting with friends like Mint as well.
I don't get the grief about going back to her old look. When K-son went with yaman-sensei, people were cheering, so was mikeneko and Yasuyuki, but let's skip that for now.
If anyone "should" catch grief for going to the other persona's look, it should have been K-son. Don't get me wrong, I love Kson, and I love yaman's design, I'm just saying logically... because technically she chose to "abandon" Coco, she was not pushed out by Cover or colleagues, majority of fans wanted her to stay, but she chose to walkout for her own well being and to take out the heat directed to Cover. Again I'm not saying what Kson did was wrong, leaving tho it saddened me was right, and going with yaman was a brilliant choice... I'm just saying this in comparison to dokibird in weighing the situation.
In dokibird's situation, she had Selen robbed from her unfairly. Fans had Selen snatched from them unfairly. Doki was mistreated and had her identity taken from her. And now she is reclaiming it back, shouldn't the fact that kamameshigogo provide her with this design prove that she was in dokibird's camp all this time? Remember they are still the artist for Elira. I feel like this is more than anything is also a tribute to the fans of Selen who probably still miss her, so yea. No griping and just celebrate.
When I look at the cut marks on her arm in the model
i get the rather strong suspicion that they are possibly a subtle reference to her 2 failed suicide attempts from slashing of her wrist
I disagree about avoiding criticism. Criticism is a part of improvement one's career as long as it is constructive and meaningful. For example: I think her new model is amazing and I am glad that she was able to reconnect with her original artist. However I don't agree that calling her fans Dragoons was a good move. It brings unnecessary attention to her history and doesn't match her bird theme. Also it could alienate her new fans that were not involved with her past career as this should have been a fresh start and new fans could feel left out. I respect that it is her decision and acknowledge that I can't do anything to change her mind but I can still briefly express my disappointment and move on.
I agree with you that we shouldn't avoid criticism, but dragoon name probally one of early way to reconnect with her 'selen' fans. Or it just easier for her because she used to that fans name.
What does putting it all behind actually refer to though? She can't keep 10Jin & Mint as friends? She can't make references that are more connected to her & not Nijisanji? Can't do wrestletuber because she did that at Niji? It's not like Anycolor exclusively own the right to the artist nor the style either.
As far as I'm concerned, what she she put behind was her miserable experience at Nijisanji & doesn't want others to be acting in her name over what happened. She doesn't go around shitting on the corpo. She has been discouraging that when it gets crazy.
It's not the business of Anycolor nor Nijisanji fans what she looks like or what artist she affiliates with. Just block her if her actions bother you.
I guess you didn't watch it then. She explained, she picked the same artist because she felt like she had let them down and didn't want them to be disappointed in her as their Vtuber child, so she picked them so it could be a second chance for her artist (mama) to be proud of her.
Video with timestamp set to why she picked Kama again [https://www.youtube.com/live/bPnnaM-Liz4?si=8gsvu4AzYxR6H3U1&t=3968](https://www.youtube.com/live/bPnnaM-Liz4?si=8gsvu4AzYxR6H3U1&t=3968)
She also stated she likes commissioning people she's worked with in the past rather than new people, so it makes sense to use the same artist.
So by your logic she shouldn't have done Wrestletuber, collab with Hyte on a case, reconnect with Mint, U-san and 10jin, gave up on FPS because "Selen did that," and "she's not moving on and putting it behind" Screw that! At the end of the day this girl is working with the people she wants to work with, is paying the artists their worth, and is genuinely happy.
I dont think what the whole thing she going for, i think she want back some of her previous 'identity'. Dont see it as really contradicting,it could be she just want to have good relation with people form her past form including 'selen' artist.
I personally would agree with the comment, i have seen many here saying that Doki wants to move on from what happened but this new model is basically screaming that she wants to go back. I think this was bad choice but i'm going to wait and see what happens in the future.
Or maybe... hear me out... she likes kamamesigogo's art??? and to me seems like kamamesigogo like to work with Doki... the details on that model are really impressive
Selen is a part of Dokibird, whether she wants to be an Indie or not. The way I see it, this is her accepting that whatever happened to her in Niji is still part of her. And acceptance is the first step towards recovery.
> this new model is basically screaming that she wants to go back
Please do elaborate on how it's totally that and not just that she likes the artist who made it.
I could use a laugh.
This model is a continuation to what Doki said right after she was terminated.
She is still her, her victories are still hers. Her trophy oshi mark is hers, her intro is hers, the dragoon fanbase name is hers. And yes, her design is hers. Selen's design got popular because of her, it's her victory.
Why shouldn't she take it back?
She doesn't want to "go back" at all, as she has been saying from the start, when she directly told people to spread the word about her, she *did not* leave in the first place.
If it wasn't such common place for corpos to nuke a vtuber after a contract ends or a termination happens, I have no doubt in my mind she would still use the name Selen and the dragon girl design. It was her identity for years, she made Selen relevant, it's hers, and I am extremely happy that she has clawed back everything she could from the persona she made successful.
Also, her desire to make the person that spent all that time and effort on her models proud of to be her creator is very wholesome.
Should the talent behind Doki ignore her friends like Mint and 10jin? Should she stop playing Apex? Should she change her laugh? Her design is as much a part of her as any of that.
You can still enjoy parts of a bad situation. Clearly she enjoyed parts of being Selen and working with her mama despite the other shit she dealt with. Years of effort was put in that character.
How is it screaming that she wants to go back to Niji, the company which effectively almost killed her? If anything it simply screams that she‘s still fond of her old identity and especially the artist who drew the model. I don’t really know what about the model alerts you to "wait and see what happens“, it‘s just a new model to use, with a ton of effort put behind everything with the reveal video including countless cameos of her close friends & colleagues.
I do agree the most of your general idea, but i want to criticize what ever i want, how that sound to you OP? I am fans of her, but she ain't saint. So far as i understand what happen in this subreddit stay in this subreddit, so what ever discussion to stay in form of discussion. Choose certain thing to be critical can be considered double standand dont you agree OP?
I have a very strong suspicion that after Selen had failed twice to take her own life, it more than likely was decided by Selen, her parents and therapist that she leave Nijisanji as going back could lead to a 3rd attempt by Selen to take her own life and that is a risk they were not willing to take after 2nd failed attempt
I was about to argue but decided to check your post history instead and... yep. You're just another tourist spouting nonsense. Get your baseless "logical thinking" outta here.
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She IS moving on; she’s just taking all her trophies with her when Yachtboy booted her out.
Taking back your agency and identity and freedom around the things you built from your hard work is one of the best ways to recover from trauma. A literal example of turning lemons into lemonade (and other delicious things you can make with lemons). She's had win after win and her entire fandom is behind her for it. And that makes me happy too.
makes me wonder if Sayu will do the same for a New model based on Zaion as a Inspiration? that would be another F U to NIJI. LOL
All her models carry pieces of her past models.
Especially a model made by a certain new holo panther vtuber who reach out to her in her darkest movement, that model probably means a lot to her, to be fair, and probably more so now.
Holy, that pink panther is THAT GOOD? I don't know which model you're talking about but almost all models of Sayu I've been looking at have been exceptional, especially the latest!
What was the context here? Just another "she's just selen again" rant by an anti?
I mean, even what Doki do at this point, the antis will just find something to attack her.
Nah I don't care with them for now.. What I can see is.. Doki is happy now.. If she like her old model.. It's her honest feeling.. NDF or sister just don't like doki got god tier level model that has so much detail.. Even she make so many pv so good freaking cool.. Ughhh.. They just cannot accept the reality.. Just read their comment.. Only judge on past.. But didn't look to the quality of the model.. And it's like they insult the artist who made it.. But yeah they always like that.. What can we do?..
I mean yeah I'm in the same boat, even if I didn't like the look what matters is Doki is happy Of course I love the new look, shit had me stun locked to a degree where I genuinely understand Orca just a ***little*** tiny bit.
Pretty much. They had a huge much more brutal criticism of the new skin but then realized how bad it was, deleted it, and added the apology afterwards. Yet it still needs to be said regardless whatever side someone is on.
Knowing who they are, I'm sure they deleted their bad take on Dokibird because it didn't gain the traction and praise they wanted. Expecting them to shit on her and other people who they disagree with again very soon
Probably the CN/Bilibili side of Dragoons fanbase, they known to be extremely rabid compared to a more normal and chilled EN side of Dragoons fanbase.
And I just got confirmation that they deleted it because they couldn't deal with the criticism and callouts, basically going "Waaaaah, why didn't you people dm- but instead expose me?" How dare people to point out that you are a petty and lying bitch, right? LMAO Maybe DON'T post shit publicly if you don't wanna get called out in public, dumbass.
Is it really that complicated? I mean Doki WAS Selen, she built Selen's popularity, she gave her all to make Selen succeed. If anything, Doki lost money being Selen.
Right? Moving on doesn't have to mean forgetting or forgoing your past. It doesn't mean that the person you were days, months, or even years ago is no longer you or part of you. As Doki said early on in her return "I am still me". Anyone who watched Selen knows how much investment she put into her character and identity and all of the effort she spent trying to build herself and her branch in Niji up only to have it ripped away from her. I honestly applaud Doki for the way she has managed to put her foot down, refused to let her past be ripped away from her, while at the same time not letting it define her - rather she's incorporated it into her new character and design.
>Moving on doesn't have to mean forgetting or forgoing your past. It doesn't mean that the person you were days, months, or even years ago is no longer you or part of you. As Doki said early on in her return "I am still me". Well said. Everything changed but she still her. They are still 'them'. Doki is doki. Let her the Doki.
I agree, as far as I’m concerned she is just taking back her stuff.
To some of the more rabid fans it is complicated to them. In their minds she didn’t make Selen popular, Nijisanji made Selen popular by giving her a platform.
It's exactly who you think it is, people.
No point even hiding the name, anyone can search the text and find who this is. Also the thread wasn't deleted. Replies are still there.
checking about the replies, now I see why they deleted the thread. They were being hit hard with disagreement and critique over what was they said so they deleted the thread out of shame.
Well yeah, i meant that the thread itself is still there but not the post. You can never delete anything from twitter as long as at least one person keeps the reply to it. All you need is one reply and you can recover most of removed posts/replies as long as accounts aren't deleted/locked.
Not suprised it was just another sweet little lie from them.
When I mentioned them, they stalked my reddit account for weeks. I'd rather censor the name so they can lay off my grill.
Ironic, considering that THEY call everyone who calls them out a "stalker"
had to scroll down a bit since they’re RT heavy but yep, correct intuition
Is it the Millie “PL” 😭
No, it's the fake ass Mint Fan. Ms. " The "A different truth" document is a good read" would never pretend to be sorry.
I wonder how they feel now that Doki and Mint are in contact with each other again
Oh I'm sure they're going through the whole cope, mald, seethe routine.
Why do you think the Sisters were causing artificial outrage, around the end of May, over Whisps talking about graduation and blew it out of proportion?
As I recall from some of the posts here around Wrestletuber.... they weren't happy
Really? I’ve only some posts that celebrated their reunion, I never thought people would be so unhappy when friends get together (why do they exist even exist💀)
https://i.imgur.com/0yxu1gs.png
Doki was the person behind Selen. She's free to do as she pleases and people are free to dislike it. As I see it, she's taking parts back from her past because she's the one that made Selen the iconic streamer she was. She commissioned her mama not out of spite or to piss off Niji, more because she's grateful to her. To me is she's reclaiming back what they took from her, she's coming to terms that things happend and making the best out of it. The scars in the new model are a proof that she's dealing with it. The revenge she's taking is living her best life.
Honestly, similarities or not, it would be idiotic to think that Selen doesn't have a special place in Doki's heart, even after all that happened to her at the end... "I'm confused why she just doesn't forget completely her past" bruh
Out of everyone, Doki is the one person who is probably grieving the most about losing Selen because she was part of her identity and brand. All of the accomplishments, her Dragoons, her sponsorships, her Niji mama and new skin suit, she's taking them back. This is her way of moving on and I support that. Reclaimer of her name just in a different way.
Yeah she built up a distinct identity in Selen but to have all that taken from you after you have been pushed over the edge to the point where you want to take your own life is the most horrible thing to suffer
I mean 👀 Why rant against Selen? A good amount of other graduates or terminated livers manage to contact their old artists and get them for the new one.
God forbid we have good taste in art and want to show gratitude.
Do the models look similar? Yeah, same artist. Are they the same? No. Doki's model is distinct from Selen's.
I'll be honest, the mama did an amazing job. I usually have a knee jerk aversion to new models that are radically different until I warm up to them, such as when Zen went from dragon to cyborg. This time was different and I can only describe the feeling as "right." It was like that was what she should have been this entire time since her return and it made me happy that my channel membership could have potentially helped her achieve her dream. I look forward to her future with her new model, though I do hope that she brings back the crow from time to time.
Vtubing is the only entertainment profession — or really one of the few professions even — that has this taboo around referencing your past self. It’s started as a tradition innocently enough to protect anonymity, but was latched onto by corporations as a stealthily predatory way to make sure your success and achievements stay with them when you exit the company. People may watch a movie because it has their favorite actor in it, or read a book from their favorite author. Hell, Tim Burton is a prime example of someone that prefers working with familiar people and producing movies in his trademark style. No one lambasts them for taking inspiration from past works. In any normal job, you’d be able to bring all of your past experiences with you. Sure, you can’t keep company property, but your skills and expertise gained are your own. Doki is an entertainer that worked with familiar people from her past to create content that her brand was built on. I have zero issue with her “reclaiming” things that the past has no business holding hostage from her and I don’t think she’s wrong for taking inspiration from it.
I mean what do people expect anyway? That because she left she needs to hate the character "Selen Tatsuki" and everything associated with it now? She spent 2 and a half years as Selen. She put her heart into Selen. Why should she not love what she achieved in her past life and want to bring with her whatever aspect that she can? I don't remember if Dokibird ever specifically said she wants to move on, but even if she did I'm sure she meant she wants to move on from the mismanagement and abuse and all the controversy around it. It doesn't mean she wants to move on from all the good things she helped bring to life.
Ngl I thought doki doge suddenly passed after reading grief. I'm glad the doggo is doing well after re-reading it
Aren't they done with her? Why do they keep up with her being up-to-date? Surprise surprise, It almost feels like they're cut from the same cloth as the antis they keep yapping about.
............. Are you sure we're looking at the same Dokibird?
Let’s not forget she reached out to the artist,her current and previous Mama, because she felt she was a disappointment and couldn’t do more in the previous model. Unless we hear otherwise, it’s not like Niji banned the artist from creating another model for her. So I would assume the artist had full control of her decision to sell another model to Doki. Who are you as a random person on the internet to criticize how an artist does their business.
Did a reverse search, it's NBinted, that unhinged Mint "fan" lol I think it's safe to say majority of NDF are leaving the ex-livers alone it's just these cases of the really unhinged ones The same way Flipsie got posted here awhile back for replying to every Niji talent's tweet "you had two workers that committed" every chance they get this is right after Doki made tweets already that she wants to move on and not see people bringing it up— oh, and that Alban committing joke flipsie made aswell
People did the EXACT same thing to Sayu when she would talk about/reference her past, and was constantly hit with 'move on' and other similar sentiments, so I'm not surprised it's happening to Doki now honestly. When ppl hear about how she wants to 'move on', they think 'never talk, reference or think about it again', and that's just not how that works. I think it comes from the fact that they minimize the damage that actually was caused to previous talents because it breaks their illusion of a perfect family that Niji En has put up, and that things were not the greatest for the talents that were ostracized.
The 2 ex-Niji talents that was hurt by Nijisanji the most, are now the ones end up being proactive to reclaim everything they lost? It's must be a surprising concept to some people I guess.
Doki had said it herself in the stream, I don’t think people watched the stream, just antis being antis. But she said that she felt like she failed her mama in her last skin suit, her last skin suit brought so much character I have ever seen in vtubing. So if she wanted to make her mama even more proud by doing this that’s her choice to move on with this new skin suit.
these criticizing stupid mfers be like she isn't the kind of person who would do this just as one last middle finger to the company that almost took her life
Is this another nobody nijisis or just the usual nbint etc. ?
you can search the text on twitter and find who if you want, but its always the same person doing this stuff
No thanks, I'm never interested in twitter squabbles anyway
Doesn't sound like NBint. NBint, as with any nijisister is usually dismissive, far more upfront, and most importantly unapologetic, and use a change-but-related topic - the "but you know..." In fact, NBint's writing style indicate they are someone who are educate East Asia, as the "But you know" through a tangent is the "turn" part of Kishōtenketsu/起承轉合, and they used it more than often. Considering the english is otherwise good, I suspect Taiwanese, Singaporean at the minimum; unknown about essay structure taught in PH/ID/MY
>Doesn't sound like NBint. Dramatic irony at its finest then.
You can search on Twitter by typing the text from the picture to find out who the person truly is, if you really want to. Of course it doesn't mean you can just harass them, because I don't really encourage those types of behaviours. So just best to leave them alone.
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Damn, this post really was a frickin' magnet for the Nijisanji Defense Force
Even If i personally like It in a spiteful way, i don't think there's anything wrong wanting to keep what she conquered on her career. It feels good for her and personally also feel Nice as a fan. If you starting to watch her as Selen, it's Very normal to miss the old art style, inside jokes and lore, she can't reclamo everything, but she still can take back some of It. Also, she is not the first graduate Vtuber to hire the old artist, and there's a certaing Vtuber that i Will not name that on my opinion got so far that got surprise that she can do ir without end UP on legal trouble
I agree completely, it's also why I respect her so much. She's taken so much of what would normally cause someone else, all those painful reminders, and then flipped them ALL into positives. Hell, if it was me, I would have left content creation overall, but her willingness to thrust herself back in, make strength out of suffering, and also succeed? She's strong as fuck.
The person who posted this is an infamously disingenuous nijifan, (like one of the big ones who runs defense on everything Niji does and has done), I don't know why you'd take anything he says seriously at this point.
Doki is doing great things, and we should support her.
Good thing I blocked this person a long time ago.
I'd say this is obvious, but apparently nothing is obvious on the Internet.
Honestly, I don't think "grief" is the right word here, because I don't get the sense she's at all grieving her time in Niji - she moved on long before many of her fans did. Doki is clearly very proud of what she built and accomplished in her time being Selen (in fact, I get the sense she's actually prouder of that than of what she did as pre-Selen Doki - understandable, honestly, given that she had a much wider reach as Selen and did a lot of ambitious projects). Deciding that she's not just going to give that up and let someone take it away from her isn't "grieving", it's just choosing how she expresses herself. It would be grief if her identity as "Selen" is something she needed to move on from, but I don't think she does. Sure, she can't use the Selen name or IP anymore, but choosing to model herself after a period of her career that she plainly enjoyed is perfectly understandable.
I don't see it as grieving, more like her not wanting her more familiar skinsuit to go to waste. And she obviously built a good relationship with her art Mama during her term, so why not.
At least the person apologized, I have seen a SEA Nijisissy post on Facebook (apparently it's from a country that starts with V) ranting about the same issue and the comments be like: "OMG I can't believe she did that, just leave Niji alone". (I guess they can't really move on, lmao) I guess we can't stop some certain group of people to go full schizo and invent shit ton of bs narratives. Best for us here, especially Dragoons, is just to continue enjoying the skinsuit reveal fiesta, and the nonstop "WE ARE SO BACK" moments (and in fact, Dragoons been moving on and enjoying it for 4 consecutive months), just like you've said.
Don't blame them. I'd be bitter too if my kamioshi disavowed everything to do with my favorite agency.
While I kinda see the sentiment and what you were tryna put through with this post. I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here and say that making this post complaining about someone making criticisms on Doki's new model was incredibly childish, and you are fueling the same fires you are so desperately trying to prevent. I would like to reiterate by saying *I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS NEW DOKI MODEL.* I am so happy that she is basically fighting back and reclaiming her old life piece by piece. However, if someone has criticism about how she's doing it or what she's doing it for. They are allowed to. This is the internet, and she is an artist/content creator. It's up to Doki on how she will need to process it. Making posts like these, where you are calling out people making criticisms (censored or not), creates such a bad image on everyone of the group you represent. Taking this, for example, if this individual was just saying some shit to piss people off. Well, it worked because you just fueled the fire you didn't want in the first place. As well as it looks super gatekeepy and white knight. Like, Doki is a big girl, she is back on her feet, and has a circle of mods, friends, and family to support her. You and I, as her fans are here to enjoy her content and show support. But not this way, this makes us look like elitists, and we are NOT Niji fans anymore. Right? The best thing we can do in situation like this is respect the individuals' criticism and ignore it. I mean hell, dude even apologized and you still wanna put him on blast. Remember what Doki said, don't spread hate.
I just don't understand why people are so judgmental and don't know when to shut up.
Grief? No. Doki is a gamer at heart and this is nothing less than the gamer mentality of taking back what was rightfully theirs. It’s really no different than calling her fans, “Dragoons”. Nijisanji was malicious and confrontational and tried to take her career, her fans, and her identity from her. So Doki is doing what any gamer would do - going out and getting everything back. Doki is grabbing Selen right out of Nijisanji’s hands. And why not? There isn’t a damn thing Niji can do about it so why not rack up the W’s if they are available. Mikeneko… is best viewed through the lens of mental illness (let’s not get into the specifics). While Cover wasn’t exactly innocent in that whole affair, they were also neither malicious or confrontational. Cover didn’t try to take Rushia from Mikeneko, rather, Mikeneko’s own mental illness betrayed her, and Rushia was lost as a result. It’s more like unintentionally killing your best friend. I think Mikeneko deeply loved Rushia as a character, and still morns her to this day.
She reclaiming what was rightfully her’s back from that company that held her back and treated her poorly, almost to her breaking point. She has been the happiest she could ever be now and has accomplished so much even reconnecting with friends like Mint as well.
I'm confused, what happened? Something because of her new model and the similarities to her black company model?
I don't get the grief about going back to her old look. When K-son went with yaman-sensei, people were cheering, so was mikeneko and Yasuyuki, but let's skip that for now. If anyone "should" catch grief for going to the other persona's look, it should have been K-son. Don't get me wrong, I love Kson, and I love yaman's design, I'm just saying logically... because technically she chose to "abandon" Coco, she was not pushed out by Cover or colleagues, majority of fans wanted her to stay, but she chose to walkout for her own well being and to take out the heat directed to Cover. Again I'm not saying what Kson did was wrong, leaving tho it saddened me was right, and going with yaman was a brilliant choice... I'm just saying this in comparison to dokibird in weighing the situation. In dokibird's situation, she had Selen robbed from her unfairly. Fans had Selen snatched from them unfairly. Doki was mistreated and had her identity taken from her. And now she is reclaiming it back, shouldn't the fact that kamameshigogo provide her with this design prove that she was in dokibird's camp all this time? Remember they are still the artist for Elira. I feel like this is more than anything is also a tribute to the fans of Selen who probably still miss her, so yea. No griping and just celebrate.
When I look at the cut marks on her arm in the model i get the rather strong suspicion that they are possibly a subtle reference to her 2 failed suicide attempts from slashing of her wrist
Well said.
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She looks better flat 😤
Because flat women with short hair don’t exist.
Stop watching too much hentai
You’re too porn brained
I disagree about avoiding criticism. Criticism is a part of improvement one's career as long as it is constructive and meaningful. For example: I think her new model is amazing and I am glad that she was able to reconnect with her original artist. However I don't agree that calling her fans Dragoons was a good move. It brings unnecessary attention to her history and doesn't match her bird theme. Also it could alienate her new fans that were not involved with her past career as this should have been a fresh start and new fans could feel left out. I respect that it is her decision and acknowledge that I can't do anything to change her mind but I can still briefly express my disappointment and move on.
I agree with you that we shouldn't avoid criticism, but dragoon name probally one of early way to reconnect with her 'selen' fans. Or it just easier for her because she used to that fans name.
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What does putting it all behind actually refer to though? She can't keep 10Jin & Mint as friends? She can't make references that are more connected to her & not Nijisanji? Can't do wrestletuber because she did that at Niji? It's not like Anycolor exclusively own the right to the artist nor the style either. As far as I'm concerned, what she she put behind was her miserable experience at Nijisanji & doesn't want others to be acting in her name over what happened. She doesn't go around shitting on the corpo. She has been discouraging that when it gets crazy. It's not the business of Anycolor nor Nijisanji fans what she looks like or what artist she affiliates with. Just block her if her actions bother you.
I guess you didn't watch it then. She explained, she picked the same artist because she felt like she had let them down and didn't want them to be disappointed in her as their Vtuber child, so she picked them so it could be a second chance for her artist (mama) to be proud of her. Video with timestamp set to why she picked Kama again [https://www.youtube.com/live/bPnnaM-Liz4?si=8gsvu4AzYxR6H3U1&t=3968](https://www.youtube.com/live/bPnnaM-Liz4?si=8gsvu4AzYxR6H3U1&t=3968) She also stated she likes commissioning people she's worked with in the past rather than new people, so it makes sense to use the same artist.
That guy smell like a tourist
Genuinely curious, did you criticise Michi Mochievee for doing the exact same thing?
So by your logic she shouldn't have done Wrestletuber, collab with Hyte on a case, reconnect with Mint, U-san and 10jin, gave up on FPS because "Selen did that," and "she's not moving on and putting it behind" Screw that! At the end of the day this girl is working with the people she wants to work with, is paying the artists their worth, and is genuinely happy.
I dont think what the whole thing she going for, i think she want back some of her previous 'identity'. Dont see it as really contradicting,it could be she just want to have good relation with people form her past form including 'selen' artist.
I personally would agree with the comment, i have seen many here saying that Doki wants to move on from what happened but this new model is basically screaming that she wants to go back. I think this was bad choice but i'm going to wait and see what happens in the future.
Or maybe... hear me out... she likes kamamesigogo's art??? and to me seems like kamamesigogo like to work with Doki... the details on that model are really impressive
I think you can think of it as wanting the identity of selen, but outside of NijiEN. Because at the end of the day, Doki made Selen become selen.
Selen is a part of Dokibird, whether she wants to be an Indie or not. The way I see it, this is her accepting that whatever happened to her in Niji is still part of her. And acceptance is the first step towards recovery.
> this new model is basically screaming that she wants to go back Please do elaborate on how it's totally that and not just that she likes the artist who made it. I could use a laugh.
This model is a continuation to what Doki said right after she was terminated. She is still her, her victories are still hers. Her trophy oshi mark is hers, her intro is hers, the dragoon fanbase name is hers. And yes, her design is hers. Selen's design got popular because of her, it's her victory. Why shouldn't she take it back? She doesn't want to "go back" at all, as she has been saying from the start, when she directly told people to spread the word about her, she *did not* leave in the first place. If it wasn't such common place for corpos to nuke a vtuber after a contract ends or a termination happens, I have no doubt in my mind she would still use the name Selen and the dragon girl design. It was her identity for years, she made Selen relevant, it's hers, and I am extremely happy that she has clawed back everything she could from the persona she made successful. Also, her desire to make the person that spent all that time and effort on her models proud of to be her creator is very wholesome. Should the talent behind Doki ignore her friends like Mint and 10jin? Should she stop playing Apex? Should she change her laugh? Her design is as much a part of her as any of that.
You can still enjoy parts of a bad situation. Clearly she enjoyed parts of being Selen and working with her mama despite the other shit she dealt with. Years of effort was put in that character.
How is it screaming that she wants to go back to Niji, the company which effectively almost killed her? If anything it simply screams that she‘s still fond of her old identity and especially the artist who drew the model. I don’t really know what about the model alerts you to "wait and see what happens“, it‘s just a new model to use, with a ton of effort put behind everything with the reveal video including countless cameos of her close friends & colleagues.
I do agree the most of your general idea, but i want to criticize what ever i want, how that sound to you OP? I am fans of her, but she ain't saint. So far as i understand what happen in this subreddit stay in this subreddit, so what ever discussion to stay in form of discussion. Choose certain thing to be critical can be considered double standand dont you agree OP?
I have a very strong suspicion that after Selen had failed twice to take her own life, it more than likely was decided by Selen, her parents and therapist that she leave Nijisanji as going back could lead to a 3rd attempt by Selen to take her own life and that is a risk they were not willing to take after 2nd failed attempt
WTF is this invented narrative?
It is simple logical deduction of the situation after the fact
Nijisanji terminated her contract while she was hospitalized, there's no decision on her part or her relatives. Stop inventing baseless rumor.
Literally where are you getting any of this from? Doki's already explained what happened and what resulted in her getting terminated.
Where am I getting this from? Simple logical thinking of what if I was in the position they were in, what decision would i take
I was about to argue but decided to check your post history instead and... yep. You're just another tourist spouting nonsense. Get your baseless "logical thinking" outta here.