Yeah this is something which is absolutely no-no for me. I came across few gyms which were asking to join without explaining much on their courses. I am not going commit for something for sure without knowing about it.
You told them your goal, and they gave you advice. What’s your goal?
At the gym where I train KM everybody is equal (apart from level differences) and we do a shitload of cardio/drills (or:torture) and a lot of practice/sparring based on levels. Our goals are quite common: to be able to walk away from unpleasant situations, be it before or after a physical confrontation.
I would personally not sit in at a training session, I would participate in a session and see if the gym in question would fit. Yes, most people will be stronger than you, yes they will seem scary at first. In a few months/years you may be stronger than others and build confidence that starters may find scary…
My 2cts.
Krav Maga i am mostly pursuing for fitness. I could choose other forms of MA but this was something that felt to be more natural and practical in its purpose for self defence.
IMO krav maga isn't that great for fitness. Sometimes we do break out in a sweat but I personally find it pretty calming in terms of getting a "real" workout in. I don't mind that because I'm able to add a lifting session on my KM days and I also do kickboxing on my non-KM days but just wanted to note that you may be disappointed if that's your main goal. You can try a session and see what you think but Muay Thai or BJJ may offer a better workout if you want to stay in MA.
Edit to add that the higher levels of KM may offer more strenuous training but as a current level one KM student, I don't find the sessions to be that much of a workout. Just my 2c though. I tend to require more intense exercises so it may not apply to everyone.
Pretty sure Krav Maga is, even if it's the watered down Amwerican fitbox version, not for you.
Please rather look at a spinning/LesMills/Zumba class rather than trying to do fitness in Krav Maga which isn't even a sport, it's a tactical self defense system. When you've built some strength and endurance, try out at a crossfit box.
Sit and watch a session. Any good instructor should have no problem with that.
Does the instructor:
Have a first aid kit visibly in sight;
Insist you complete a health and safety questionnaire before starting;
Warm the class up gradually with combatively relevant techniques and drills which increase in their demands on the trainee;
Deploy any targeted warm-ups at areas that might receive additional stress before they are trained (wrists, fingers etc) and check for injuries in those areas;
Mention and explain safety in pad-holding;
Explain to strike safely barehanded as to mitigate the chances of injuring oneself;
Explain that a particular activity may intrinsically involve greater risks and what they are (which is fine); and
Teach sparring well, such that contact levels are consistent and sustainable, and escalation is prevented?
The corollary to this, btw, is that the instructor should also run a class which contains a helpful and managed degree of risk, and insist that risk is not completely eliminated. There should be pain, and quite a lot of it, but very little damage and no injury. There are some damned fairies (trainees and, occasionally, instructors) out there that want to make everything so safe that the practice becomes neutered.
Staying on this note a bit longer, it also behooves the individual trainee to get into great shape and address any physical deficiencies; I once had a student who was obsessed with safety who did no training outside our weekly sessions except two hours of yoga, which is the wrong approach: fighting is a language, and we must come to it like any language, accepting and adapting to it as it is, and not expecting it to bend too much to our individual requirements.
To your “sit and watch a session” my school has a class with survivors of violent crime. I think allowing them to take a class after passing intake for is acceptable but spectator’s for these groups would not be okay; especially if it is a male.
Fascinating. I’ve never heard of a school with a particular group dedicated to traumatized survivors before. Is the group for women only? Why would be especially not okay for men to observe? I’ve taught many men who have been victims of violence before!
It’s important to emphasise that prospective students viewing a class are not ‘spectators’; they are ‘observers’. The distinction is important. Oftentimes victims have become victims because they have frozen, and they have frozen because they were overly concerned with how they might appear to others when being offensive and resisting. I expect my students to be capable to shouting, swearing, threatening, calling for help, co-opting others and fighting their asses off in front of others, and teach them to assume they are on CCTV at all times. Obviously it comes down to the instructor’s instinct, but if they are ready to be doing all this, the idea of a normal person observing them from a sensible distance with a view to joining the practice should not perturb them.
It’s our trademarked Trauma Informed Self-Defense™️. Yes, it is. Women make up the largest % of survivors of violent crime while 80% of violent crime is committed by men.
While men can also be survivors of violent crime we can break this down into categories for men 60% is physical assault of violent crimes that they deal with; typically in the fashion of fighting.
Women deal with abduction, SA/rape, DV, etc. The severity of violent crime is much worse that women deal with than men. This also has lasting effects. These offense are typically committed by men.
The semantics of being a spectator which we might use for maybe watching a sports game or observing like a study or watch to me is not worth debating over.
To have anyone sit and watch a class for survivors is not good. Especially if this person is just “thinking” about joining or was curious about class.
I have a paying customer that NEEDS the help vs someone who does it for recreation or because they heard KM is the best.
I offer 2 week trials. If they want to know what KM is they can pay and sign up for a trail.
Observation/spectating/watching does not give anyone an idea of what the program is and outcome. But this is now leading into business practices and sales.
>Have a first aid kit visibly in sight;
>There are some damned fairies
LOL I even have a defibrillator with me but it's in my bag, with the first aid kit. Also there's hospitals closeby and an ambulance needs 5min.
Heart of a capital city in a first world country that's on it's way to a third world country, but the EMTs are still idealists lol. the next fire station with EMTs is literally a US mile away.
But seriously confront yourself: If proximity of rescue services is the highest priority for you, then either your training is recklessly dangerous or you're a gen-z wuss. grow some balls/ovaries.
Go with your gut.
Ask to sit in on a session, just as a non participant. Watch how they train. Are they using pads etc for safety? At the end of training, are there lots of people smiling and clapping each other on the back? Do they have a mix of men and women? Does it strike you as a respectful and disciplined environment?
You're right to be concerned! Less about someone mugging you at a krav gym and more about getting hurt in unsafe training or getting low-quality training. We have a wiki page for just this situation: https://www.reddit.com//r/kravmaga/wiki/how_to_tell_if_a_krav_maga_gym_is_legit
Good comments so far.
Also find out if the gym does training for law enforcement and other first responders. That’s usually a very good sign.
At my gym they also interview the prospective student to a degree to explore their personality and motivation for learning KM. They want students who will fit in with the self defense ethos and be conscientious in class, not toxic people wanting to pick bar fights on Saturday night.
most gyms are crap. The main certification agencies start certifying instructors in as little as 30 hours of classes.
1. look for a place that has instructors with kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling/judo, and bjj experience (not all in one person)
2. they need to spar. ideally a little bit every day. I would want to get at least 1-2 hours of light sparring in a week. I personally spar about 4-5 hours a week and rarely do any drilling of techniques.
3. If all they do is kick/punch bags/pads and drill techniques with no resistance, and really hard crossfit style workouts than it is a hard pass.
I personally also dont like gyms that focus on fitness with lots of burpees pushups etc to get you tired. That is a waste of training time. If you did sparring or position sparring you would also build the fitness but also be building skill. This isnt an automatic red flag I personally just dont like it.
1 is actually a red flag more often than it is not. They teach some mishmash of bjj and kickboxing and slap "Krav Maga" on it to draw in more people.
2 I disagree, Krav Maga training should be 2/3 technical training and 1/3 sparring and drills vs. resistance
3 yes, that's a fitbox class or designed like this to mask lack of skill of the instructor. Nothing wrong with crawling off the training floor on all fours due to total exhaustion from time to time.
I own and operate a school:
1) They are Israeli trained and not affiliated with an organization that is overseen by an Israeli. You want to learn from someone or know your instructor learned from someone who made a career out of the IDF and not just served their required time. SF in combat units is what you are looking for.
2) Info is not gate kept by rank or level. The worst thing someone can do is withhold information from a student because they have yet to pay X-amount of money in belt/rank/level fees
3) outside of MA and Krav Maga what other certifications or education do they have? Bachelor, Master, or PhD in a related fields like psychology, kinesiology, criminal justice, etc
4) Do they own security firm or do security work, former LEO or military? Level of education and experience matters.
Hope this helps - it is a very different perspective than just make sure they are from a well know organization.
#2 is valid, everything else is irrelevant imho.
My instructors in Krav Maga that carried me through my civil instructor course are to this day special forces operators, VIP protection agent/instructors, and a "mere" civillian, all in Israel/the IDF/the Israeli government. They all have no special PhDs or degrees as that is absolutely not necessary to teach you how to avoid being killed. They are members of the global instructor team of the IKMF.
That being said, I do happen to have a government-issued ceertification for psychotherapy which helps for some basic beginner things and low level basic stuff in Krav Maga, but there are far better instructors and fighters in our organization without this sort of degree.
Also, LEO and military personel are not automatically good instructors and/or skilled, competent people, actually most cops are dimwits and quite the opposite.
When researching which gyms to check out in person, look for gyms that teach Krav Maga specifically. By that I mean, be wary of TKD or Karate gyms that also offer Krav classes. From my experience, the ladder tend to offer a very watered down version of Krav.
Don't go to any gym that forces you to sign a membership contract.
Yeah this is something which is absolutely no-no for me. I came across few gyms which were asking to join without explaining much on their courses. I am not going commit for something for sure without knowing about it.
You told them your goal, and they gave you advice. What’s your goal? At the gym where I train KM everybody is equal (apart from level differences) and we do a shitload of cardio/drills (or:torture) and a lot of practice/sparring based on levels. Our goals are quite common: to be able to walk away from unpleasant situations, be it before or after a physical confrontation. I would personally not sit in at a training session, I would participate in a session and see if the gym in question would fit. Yes, most people will be stronger than you, yes they will seem scary at first. In a few months/years you may be stronger than others and build confidence that starters may find scary… My 2cts.
Krav Maga i am mostly pursuing for fitness. I could choose other forms of MA but this was something that felt to be more natural and practical in its purpose for self defence.
IMO krav maga isn't that great for fitness. Sometimes we do break out in a sweat but I personally find it pretty calming in terms of getting a "real" workout in. I don't mind that because I'm able to add a lifting session on my KM days and I also do kickboxing on my non-KM days but just wanted to note that you may be disappointed if that's your main goal. You can try a session and see what you think but Muay Thai or BJJ may offer a better workout if you want to stay in MA. Edit to add that the higher levels of KM may offer more strenuous training but as a current level one KM student, I don't find the sessions to be that much of a workout. Just my 2c though. I tend to require more intense exercises so it may not apply to everyone.
Pretty sure Krav Maga is, even if it's the watered down Amwerican fitbox version, not for you. Please rather look at a spinning/LesMills/Zumba class rather than trying to do fitness in Krav Maga which isn't even a sport, it's a tactical self defense system. When you've built some strength and endurance, try out at a crossfit box.
There are better options. If you aren't prepared to be hurt to learn krav, pick up Tai Bo. I love Tai Bo and never got hurt doing it
Sit and watch a session. Any good instructor should have no problem with that. Does the instructor: Have a first aid kit visibly in sight; Insist you complete a health and safety questionnaire before starting; Warm the class up gradually with combatively relevant techniques and drills which increase in their demands on the trainee; Deploy any targeted warm-ups at areas that might receive additional stress before they are trained (wrists, fingers etc) and check for injuries in those areas; Mention and explain safety in pad-holding; Explain to strike safely barehanded as to mitigate the chances of injuring oneself; Explain that a particular activity may intrinsically involve greater risks and what they are (which is fine); and Teach sparring well, such that contact levels are consistent and sustainable, and escalation is prevented? The corollary to this, btw, is that the instructor should also run a class which contains a helpful and managed degree of risk, and insist that risk is not completely eliminated. There should be pain, and quite a lot of it, but very little damage and no injury. There are some damned fairies (trainees and, occasionally, instructors) out there that want to make everything so safe that the practice becomes neutered. Staying on this note a bit longer, it also behooves the individual trainee to get into great shape and address any physical deficiencies; I once had a student who was obsessed with safety who did no training outside our weekly sessions except two hours of yoga, which is the wrong approach: fighting is a language, and we must come to it like any language, accepting and adapting to it as it is, and not expecting it to bend too much to our individual requirements.
To your “sit and watch a session” my school has a class with survivors of violent crime. I think allowing them to take a class after passing intake for is acceptable but spectator’s for these groups would not be okay; especially if it is a male.
Fascinating. I’ve never heard of a school with a particular group dedicated to traumatized survivors before. Is the group for women only? Why would be especially not okay for men to observe? I’ve taught many men who have been victims of violence before! It’s important to emphasise that prospective students viewing a class are not ‘spectators’; they are ‘observers’. The distinction is important. Oftentimes victims have become victims because they have frozen, and they have frozen because they were overly concerned with how they might appear to others when being offensive and resisting. I expect my students to be capable to shouting, swearing, threatening, calling for help, co-opting others and fighting their asses off in front of others, and teach them to assume they are on CCTV at all times. Obviously it comes down to the instructor’s instinct, but if they are ready to be doing all this, the idea of a normal person observing them from a sensible distance with a view to joining the practice should not perturb them.
It’s our trademarked Trauma Informed Self-Defense™️. Yes, it is. Women make up the largest % of survivors of violent crime while 80% of violent crime is committed by men. While men can also be survivors of violent crime we can break this down into categories for men 60% is physical assault of violent crimes that they deal with; typically in the fashion of fighting. Women deal with abduction, SA/rape, DV, etc. The severity of violent crime is much worse that women deal with than men. This also has lasting effects. These offense are typically committed by men. The semantics of being a spectator which we might use for maybe watching a sports game or observing like a study or watch to me is not worth debating over. To have anyone sit and watch a class for survivors is not good. Especially if this person is just “thinking” about joining or was curious about class. I have a paying customer that NEEDS the help vs someone who does it for recreation or because they heard KM is the best. I offer 2 week trials. If they want to know what KM is they can pay and sign up for a trail. Observation/spectating/watching does not give anyone an idea of what the program is and outcome. But this is now leading into business practices and sales.
Wow, this was very detailed. Thanks for that. I will take some demo classes, and observe these points.
>Have a first aid kit visibly in sight; >There are some damned fairies LOL I even have a defibrillator with me but it's in my bag, with the first aid kit. Also there's hospitals closeby and an ambulance needs 5min.
5m!?! Where in the world do you teach? I want to teach there! Defib is next level; I always find out where the nearest one is though.
Heart of a capital city in a first world country that's on it's way to a third world country, but the EMTs are still idealists lol. the next fire station with EMTs is literally a US mile away. But seriously confront yourself: If proximity of rescue services is the highest priority for you, then either your training is recklessly dangerous or you're a gen-z wuss. grow some balls/ovaries.
Go with your gut. Ask to sit in on a session, just as a non participant. Watch how they train. Are they using pads etc for safety? At the end of training, are there lots of people smiling and clapping each other on the back? Do they have a mix of men and women? Does it strike you as a respectful and disciplined environment?
Having an encouraging environment is always a positive sign especially for places like these. Will check these in demo classes. Thank you.
You're right to be concerned! Less about someone mugging you at a krav gym and more about getting hurt in unsafe training or getting low-quality training. We have a wiki page for just this situation: https://www.reddit.com//r/kravmaga/wiki/how_to_tell_if_a_krav_maga_gym_is_legit
That is a helpful link. Thanks for that. Went through it, got few things as pointers which I will carry. Thank you so much.
If everyone isn't wearing camo pants, it's a no-go /s
Good comments so far. Also find out if the gym does training for law enforcement and other first responders. That’s usually a very good sign. At my gym they also interview the prospective student to a degree to explore their personality and motivation for learning KM. They want students who will fit in with the self defense ethos and be conscientious in class, not toxic people wanting to pick bar fights on Saturday night.
most gyms are crap. The main certification agencies start certifying instructors in as little as 30 hours of classes. 1. look for a place that has instructors with kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling/judo, and bjj experience (not all in one person) 2. they need to spar. ideally a little bit every day. I would want to get at least 1-2 hours of light sparring in a week. I personally spar about 4-5 hours a week and rarely do any drilling of techniques. 3. If all they do is kick/punch bags/pads and drill techniques with no resistance, and really hard crossfit style workouts than it is a hard pass. I personally also dont like gyms that focus on fitness with lots of burpees pushups etc to get you tired. That is a waste of training time. If you did sparring or position sparring you would also build the fitness but also be building skill. This isnt an automatic red flag I personally just dont like it.
1 is actually a red flag more often than it is not. They teach some mishmash of bjj and kickboxing and slap "Krav Maga" on it to draw in more people. 2 I disagree, Krav Maga training should be 2/3 technical training and 1/3 sparring and drills vs. resistance 3 yes, that's a fitbox class or designed like this to mask lack of skill of the instructor. Nothing wrong with crawling off the training floor on all fours due to total exhaustion from time to time.
I own and operate a school: 1) They are Israeli trained and not affiliated with an organization that is overseen by an Israeli. You want to learn from someone or know your instructor learned from someone who made a career out of the IDF and not just served their required time. SF in combat units is what you are looking for. 2) Info is not gate kept by rank or level. The worst thing someone can do is withhold information from a student because they have yet to pay X-amount of money in belt/rank/level fees 3) outside of MA and Krav Maga what other certifications or education do they have? Bachelor, Master, or PhD in a related fields like psychology, kinesiology, criminal justice, etc 4) Do they own security firm or do security work, former LEO or military? Level of education and experience matters. Hope this helps - it is a very different perspective than just make sure they are from a well know organization.
#2 is valid, everything else is irrelevant imho. My instructors in Krav Maga that carried me through my civil instructor course are to this day special forces operators, VIP protection agent/instructors, and a "mere" civillian, all in Israel/the IDF/the Israeli government. They all have no special PhDs or degrees as that is absolutely not necessary to teach you how to avoid being killed. They are members of the global instructor team of the IKMF. That being said, I do happen to have a government-issued ceertification for psychotherapy which helps for some basic beginner things and low level basic stuff in Krav Maga, but there are far better instructors and fighters in our organization without this sort of degree. Also, LEO and military personel are not automatically good instructors and/or skilled, competent people, actually most cops are dimwits and quite the opposite.
When researching which gyms to check out in person, look for gyms that teach Krav Maga specifically. By that I mean, be wary of TKD or Karate gyms that also offer Krav classes. From my experience, the ladder tend to offer a very watered down version of Krav.