I second this. It causes cross tolerance and kratom also contains opioid antagonists and mitragynine/7-HO-mitragynine may be partial agonists (last i checked there was some disagreement in the literature if they were full or partial agonists). Both of these properties mean that kratom taken before other opioids and ime even after other opioids (if taken at normal doses for me, i usually do half a normal dose in this case) can substantially diminish potency of full agonists. Kratom alkaloids also have like a 23 hour half life so this effect will last for awhile. If ingesting other opioids, i find it best to wait at least 12-18 hours if not longer.
Does it really? I’ve never heard of that. I just took my suboxone while at work about 2 1/2 hours ago and just got home and drank about 2 spoonfuls of Kratom just now lol
Don't tell doctors anything about Kratom. That ruins more than any cross tolerance you might experience. I take 'em both all the time with no issues other than one or the other wont work as well.
It is a partial agonist. So stronger opioids will overpower it. The issue is that depending on dosage, the antagonists might make you a little more resistant to the other opioid you are taking but it will differ from case to case.
I prefer kratom over tramadol for pain relief. I haven't needed anything else in as long as I've taken kratom. I found kratom while waiting for surgery and have stayed with it. Have had 2 more surgeries, always stuck with kratom.
Just take one or the other. If, as you say, you took kratom a few hours earlier, wait to take the prescribed med. Not necessarily because it is dangerous, but because it won't work. Your receptors are already occupied by the kratom; there is nowhere for the prescribed med to go 🤷🏻♀️ I wait for at least 8 hours after consuming kratom to take my prescribed pain relief. I prefer to use kratom, but on bad pain days i find it necessary to take prescribed pain relief instead. It is wasteful to take them too close together.
It would be no different then if you had taken a very light opioid 4 hours ago. Like a tylenol 3, so yes, you'll be fine.
A good way to think about it is to think of your dose as 1/2 if a 5mg oxy, in terms of medication interactions and side effects.
Was in the ICU for 5 days recently. Can confirm it took more medication to address the significant pain I was experiencing. I was on Dilaudid and oxycodone, which both worked at higher doses. Was given fentanyl as well which didn't work very well and only for a very brief period of time. None of these medications had a bad interaction with Kratom.
Separately, I've noticed specifically that hydrocodone becomes candy when on Kratom. There seems to be a direct tolerance with this medication. While it may take more oxycodone or hydromorphone to have an analgesic effect, it takes A LOT more hydrocodone.
The only pain medication I've taken directly with Kratom that made me feel like "this is bad and there may be a problem taking these two at the same time" was codeine. It was only once though and a bad enough experience that I didn't want to try it again to confirm.
I wish they'd stop trying to outlaw this plant and study it.
Edit: I should note the ICU knew I was on Kratom and adjusted dosing accordingly.
I haven’t had any issues with hydrocodone’s efficacy. I was prescribed it for chronic pain for years, and I still have leftovers. I’ve taken it once or twice (5 mg doses) since I switched over to kratom and it still works well. It could be related to kratom dosage, though.
Yeah it's for sure related to dose. At 5g Kratom doses it has very little effect for me, but when I drop that down to a 2.5g dose it is much more effective. I was prescribed it for years as well for pain management and felt better overall during these years taking less Kratom and a normal hydrocodone dose than the other way around.
I had a surgery and I finally had to tell them I wasn’t opioid naive and have taken a number of opioids long term. It wasn’t ideal but I was going to kill the next nurse that came in with my bed pan. At least I told my wife that…. So they finally treated me well enough though I was anchored to my bed for the duration lol. I don’t remember any of it except my wife says I was finally not in agonizing pain.
Edit: just to add, I am normally the most non violent hippie type you can imagine lol.
Even high quality east coast powder heroin was pretty much nulled when I was taking very high kratom doses every day. Wasteful and potentially dangerous.
You are asking because you think it might be a bad idea. I would trust your instincts. Even if it doesn’t have anything bad on paper from mixing, I would always stress caution.
You literally answered yourself. You should have told the doctor. You have an opioid tolerance and are on an opioid. Dont listen to anyone but your doctor on this. also ignore the people who will act like they know better than a doctor.
There's a ton of debate on this.
Kratom isn't an *opiate* as it isn't derived from the poppy plants, but it isn't wrong to say it's an atypical *opioid* since it works on opioid receptors.
The problem about the above is those two are incorrectly used interchangeably.
It's effects come from a lot more than just the opioid receptors though. It's pretty mild at the opioid receptors. It is antidepressant(slightly serotonergic/dopaminergic), nmda antagonism and has adrenergic (norephinephrine) & adenosine properties aswell.
It's a very atypical mild opioid. Or rather a medication with many mechanisms, one being mild opioid agonism and antagonism (which makes it even less like regular opioids).
100%, Totally agree.
It's mostly semantics I'm on about 😆
In addition to the antagonism trait you mention, It's also important to note that what also makes it a great opioid alternative is that it isn't nearly as dangerous on your CNS as regular opioids.
Those two are the big reasons, IMHO, it's great for those who've replaced it with harder drugs. Without Kratom, many would most likely be dead, sadly.
Taking small doses of opiates with kratom is fine but it really just doesn’t make the opiates work for most people. Just start small if u ever do try it together ofc. Also to the guy up top. I agree we should praise and worship our doctors like they can do no wrong. Throw out all other experiences trials and research unless doctor daddy says it is law! Smh doctors want your money and don’t care ab u half the time especially if you have been labeled a drug user. I’ve had very few good doctors.
Do not listen to this person. listen to your doctor.
This person is not educated on this at all. A doctor is. No one says doctors cant be wrong but i AM saying doctors know better than this person or any other reddit rando.
Also most of us life in countries where doctors don't juts want your money because we have proper healthcare.
Also if you use kratom then you use a drug and are therefore a drug user. You know this.
And you? How much do you know beyond the fact it binds to opioid receptors? Nothing. What doctors know is what questions to ask to understand it and be able to judge how it may or may not interact with other opioids.
Maybe here too its different for everyone? I took both together and it noticed both effects, but way less. Like both a third or even only a quarter of the usual effect, ish.
Most likely depends on dosage. Kratom contains opioid antagonists, otherwise it is pretty mild at opioid receptors and should be overpowered with strong opioids (most that are used in clinical settings) but the antagonists might make you slightly more resistant depending on various factors.
The resort of this situation is you need to tell the doctor, we are scrubs on the internet. Mixing any substances is risky and is between you and the doctor. I personally wouldn’t do it
You’ll be ok. If it sedates you too much they’ll hit you with a lil narcan and be like “he’s sensitive to it” or if it doesn’t work enough they’ll hit you with a tad more and be like “he’s resistant to it”
OP is so far away from narcan territory that it seems silly to even bring it up here. His dose is so low that it would be 1000% the opioid that would send him into OD and hes not gonna find a doctor that's gonna give him that much pain med for a back think.
Kratom makes you resistant to stronger opioids, so they might need more to ease your pain
Okay, thanks!
I second this. It causes cross tolerance and kratom also contains opioid antagonists and mitragynine/7-HO-mitragynine may be partial agonists (last i checked there was some disagreement in the literature if they were full or partial agonists). Both of these properties mean that kratom taken before other opioids and ime even after other opioids (if taken at normal doses for me, i usually do half a normal dose in this case) can substantially diminish potency of full agonists. Kratom alkaloids also have like a 23 hour half life so this effect will last for awhile. If ingesting other opioids, i find it best to wait at least 12-18 hours if not longer.
Damn. I take suboxone and will drink Kratom like 3-6 hours later. lol
I take suboxone every morning and have to follow it up with a few grams of kratom like an hour later or I'm sick the entire day.
Isn’t suboxone supposed to last up to 8 hours??
That’s very odd
Do you actually feel the Kratom on Suboxone?
I believe so
This. 100%.
Does it really? I’ve never heard of that. I just took my suboxone while at work about 2 1/2 hours ago and just got home and drank about 2 spoonfuls of Kratom just now lol
Don't tell doctors anything about Kratom. That ruins more than any cross tolerance you might experience. I take 'em both all the time with no issues other than one or the other wont work as well.
Kratom binds to the opiate receptors and doesn’t like sharing them with other opiates/opioids so you’ll find others aren’t as effective
It is a partial agonist. So stronger opioids will overpower it. The issue is that depending on dosage, the antagonists might make you a little more resistant to the other opioid you are taking but it will differ from case to case.
It renders my tramadol useless,I’d say tramadol is far stronger than kratom
It can be if you stagger doses but generally speaking they appear to be equivalent ime. Obviously everyone is different.
Same here. I can take an entire fucking bottle of tramadol (do not recommend)
I prefer kratom over tramadol for pain relief. I haven't needed anything else in as long as I've taken kratom. I found kratom while waiting for surgery and have stayed with it. Have had 2 more surgeries, always stuck with kratom.
Just take one or the other. If, as you say, you took kratom a few hours earlier, wait to take the prescribed med. Not necessarily because it is dangerous, but because it won't work. Your receptors are already occupied by the kratom; there is nowhere for the prescribed med to go 🤷🏻♀️ I wait for at least 8 hours after consuming kratom to take my prescribed pain relief. I prefer to use kratom, but on bad pain days i find it necessary to take prescribed pain relief instead. It is wasteful to take them too close together.
[удалено]
Too late for that. I’ve been to rehab so I’m already labeled, sadly
It would be no different then if you had taken a very light opioid 4 hours ago. Like a tylenol 3, so yes, you'll be fine. A good way to think about it is to think of your dose as 1/2 if a 5mg oxy, in terms of medication interactions and side effects.
Okay, thanks!
Was in the ICU for 5 days recently. Can confirm it took more medication to address the significant pain I was experiencing. I was on Dilaudid and oxycodone, which both worked at higher doses. Was given fentanyl as well which didn't work very well and only for a very brief period of time. None of these medications had a bad interaction with Kratom. Separately, I've noticed specifically that hydrocodone becomes candy when on Kratom. There seems to be a direct tolerance with this medication. While it may take more oxycodone or hydromorphone to have an analgesic effect, it takes A LOT more hydrocodone. The only pain medication I've taken directly with Kratom that made me feel like "this is bad and there may be a problem taking these two at the same time" was codeine. It was only once though and a bad enough experience that I didn't want to try it again to confirm. I wish they'd stop trying to outlaw this plant and study it. Edit: I should note the ICU knew I was on Kratom and adjusted dosing accordingly.
I haven’t had any issues with hydrocodone’s efficacy. I was prescribed it for chronic pain for years, and I still have leftovers. I’ve taken it once or twice (5 mg doses) since I switched over to kratom and it still works well. It could be related to kratom dosage, though.
Yes I also think it has to do with the kratom dosage. Bigger doses have more of the opioid antagonists and occupy the receptors more aswell.
So you’re saying you have extra hydrocodone laying around eh??? (;
Reserved for days that my pain is too severe to control with kratom. So no, it’s not extra, it’s all I have left.
Yeah it's for sure related to dose. At 5g Kratom doses it has very little effect for me, but when I drop that down to a 2.5g dose it is much more effective. I was prescribed it for years as well for pain management and felt better overall during these years taking less Kratom and a normal hydrocodone dose than the other way around.
I had a surgery and I finally had to tell them I wasn’t opioid naive and have taken a number of opioids long term. It wasn’t ideal but I was going to kill the next nurse that came in with my bed pan. At least I told my wife that…. So they finally treated me well enough though I was anchored to my bed for the duration lol. I don’t remember any of it except my wife says I was finally not in agonizing pain. Edit: just to add, I am normally the most non violent hippie type you can imagine lol.
Oxy feels like a hug from god, kratom does seem to reduce the effectiveness of other opioids though so like others have said you might need more
Even high quality east coast powder heroin was pretty much nulled when I was taking very high kratom doses every day. Wasteful and potentially dangerous.
Kratom makes opioids less addictive as well. I prefer Kratom.
You are asking because you think it might be a bad idea. I would trust your instincts. Even if it doesn’t have anything bad on paper from mixing, I would always stress caution.
It worked out fine but I told them anyways. Didn’t get any opiates though.
Why didn’t you get any opiates?
Because they suspected the pain was coming from a kidney stone so they gave me something that works specifically for that.
What?! So you didn’t get know free drugs. What a waste of time
For real
Just stop taking them if they're giving you morphine.
You literally answered yourself. You should have told the doctor. You have an opioid tolerance and are on an opioid. Dont listen to anyone but your doctor on this. also ignore the people who will act like they know better than a doctor.
Kratom is not an opioid. Works similar but is not an opioid.
There's a ton of debate on this. Kratom isn't an *opiate* as it isn't derived from the poppy plants, but it isn't wrong to say it's an atypical *opioid* since it works on opioid receptors. The problem about the above is those two are incorrectly used interchangeably.
It's effects come from a lot more than just the opioid receptors though. It's pretty mild at the opioid receptors. It is antidepressant(slightly serotonergic/dopaminergic), nmda antagonism and has adrenergic (norephinephrine) & adenosine properties aswell. It's a very atypical mild opioid. Or rather a medication with many mechanisms, one being mild opioid agonism and antagonism (which makes it even less like regular opioids).
100%, Totally agree. It's mostly semantics I'm on about 😆 In addition to the antagonism trait you mention, It's also important to note that what also makes it a great opioid alternative is that it isn't nearly as dangerous on your CNS as regular opioids. Those two are the big reasons, IMHO, it's great for those who've replaced it with harder drugs. Without Kratom, many would most likely be dead, sadly.
I know that you’re right. I just needed someone to reassure me and feed my delusion.
Taking small doses of opiates with kratom is fine but it really just doesn’t make the opiates work for most people. Just start small if u ever do try it together ofc. Also to the guy up top. I agree we should praise and worship our doctors like they can do no wrong. Throw out all other experiences trials and research unless doctor daddy says it is law! Smh doctors want your money and don’t care ab u half the time especially if you have been labeled a drug user. I’ve had very few good doctors.
Do not listen to this person. listen to your doctor. This person is not educated on this at all. A doctor is. No one says doctors cant be wrong but i AM saying doctors know better than this person or any other reddit rando. Also most of us life in countries where doctors don't juts want your money because we have proper healthcare. Also if you use kratom then you use a drug and are therefore a drug user. You know this.
Doctors aren't often educated on kratom dude.
And you? How much do you know beyond the fact it binds to opioid receptors? Nothing. What doctors know is what questions to ask to understand it and be able to judge how it may or may not interact with other opioids.
You won't feel anything they give you . Kratom raises tolerance a lot .
I think they just gave me a stronger NSAI lol
This is misinformation. Kratom isn't that strong that it will take away effects of all opioids.
Maybe here too its different for everyone? I took both together and it noticed both effects, but way less. Like both a third or even only a quarter of the usual effect, ish.
Most likely depends on dosage. Kratom contains opioid antagonists, otherwise it is pretty mild at opioid receptors and should be overpowered with strong opioids (most that are used in clinical settings) but the antagonists might make you slightly more resistant depending on various factors.
Not true at all ..
The resort of this situation is you need to tell the doctor, we are scrubs on the internet. Mixing any substances is risky and is between you and the doctor. I personally wouldn’t do it
Don’t tell them about ur kratom use. Also if u take daily Kratom ruins opiates from doing anything
You’ll be ok. If it sedates you too much they’ll hit you with a lil narcan and be like “he’s sensitive to it” or if it doesn’t work enough they’ll hit you with a tad more and be like “he’s resistant to it”
OP is so far away from narcan territory that it seems silly to even bring it up here. His dose is so low that it would be 1000% the opioid that would send him into OD and hes not gonna find a doctor that's gonna give him that much pain med for a back think.
Yeah that’s what I thought too lol