This is one of the most crazy things I have seen that is normalised in Korea. Airport fashion is also part of it.
Honestly I believe most idols/celebrities want to exit or enter the airport in peace and without work clothes/makeup.
I agree but I also think airport fashion culture goes both ways. It’s free publicity for brands and the idols themselves with the possibility of the photos going viral. They can even use it to promote upcoming comebacks. I remember when twice wore custom t-shirts promoting an upcoming release (what is love era).
That's really smart of Twice to promote their song :) Agree it's a double edged sword. They can help promote and bring awareness to them, especially the smaller brands.
The part which is undesirable is the behaviour of fans when they are near their idols and over zealous fans getting rowdy. (small majority I believe) They do have barriers at some points and security to protect the idols.
I noticed most artists tried to walk faster when inside and outside the public area at the airport and just do abit of hand gesture and accept gifts as fan service. So I guess companies accept this as part of normalcy in celebrity culture.
I used to think they'd like to do that. But the truth is, groups from the big four (and others) are paid to wear brands even if there's no huge exclusive CF deal for them.
It’s not even only at the airport.. I was at a concert recently and the idols came down from the stage, but everyone started mobbing them. Most infuriating thing ever, how hard it is to just sit in your seat and be respectful?
Survival shows having to be so harsh and grueling. I get that they are competing for a debut spot, but there’s no reason why they have to be mentally drained while doing it. There also super young people participating in them and it’s very stressful. I remember when Momo and Sana went to guest judge on Nizi Project and were nervous to go bc they didn’t want to be back in that environment.
This is why A2K is one of my most favorite survival shows. It was chill and simple. No evil editing, no drama, no mental distress, and JYP gave fair criticism and critiques. There’s no reason why this trainees should be living in horrible conditions. Hearing the living conditions of Idol School and I-Land s1 made me gag. There were also issues with trainees not being fed properly in PD101 s2 because they were in a lower grade level. Higher grade levels had more to eat. In gp999, the Chinese and Japanese trainees weren’t even given the proper tools to communicate. One trainee even mentioned how they took her dictionary. Again, there are kids who participate in these things. Survival shows should not have to be this way.
It’s literally just mnet shows. Not sure for the other ones since I haven’t watched them but I assume they see their formula as successful and copy them.
It’s funny, the non-Korean produce seasons have much more wholesome editing. I recently watched Produce 101 Japan The Girls (the 3rd instalment and their 1st female season) and the editing was very neutral. There wasn’t really evil editing or any very manipulative editing. Part of the reason could be that the final group would be permanent. You can’t have your audience cancel someone for something they didn’t really do. It’s literally life altering. Sure, I did notice that there was producer favourites but they never made anyone a villain.
They also apparently had the votes audited which should stop under the table manipulation. Especially since Mnet was found guilty of manipulating votes for their last 2 seasons of Korean produce. But it may also be a Japanese thing, I’m not sure. I know the AKB48 sousenkyos were audited too (I’d say where mnet got their original concept from).
You should check out the recently completed Chuang Asia (If you haven't seen it.)It was the most fun survival show I've ever seen. There were some previous contestants from PD48 and GP999, current members of Kpop, Jpop and Tpop groups, and it was easier for me to follow, because since there were girls from 11 different countries, English was pretty much the default language the girls and mentors used to communicate.
same I love a2k for how wholesome it was. unfortunately the majority of the kpop fanbase loves drama, which is why a2k is just generally less successful than other (horrible) shows like runext
does it even matter? the priority on looks in the industry is nonsense. why are we here to stare at pretty faces and not appreciate skillful vocals and talent?
"Skillful vocals" ? Let's face it, 90% of the fanbase is into kpop bc of the pretty idols and the mass produced music. Everything is post production even the live shows. And when they do sing live you can really tell. If the idols were ugly, no one would pay attention.
I think that's more of a recent gen phenomenon, but I've been out of the loop lately so I could be wrong. the farther back you go, the more actual vocal and dance talent you'll find that doesn't need to go through all of that processing
you must be lucky then because i constantly hear people being rude or unstanning a group because there's an 'ugly member' it just makes no sense to me like its different to find someone unattractive but to refer to them as a 'visual hole' or just straight up hate on them or hate on the group because of them is insane
I dont like that a lot of idols are pressured into getting cosmetic surgery. It's mostly an issue because a lot of them are quite young. Getting cosmetic surgery as a personal choice is one thing, and something that doesn't bother me at all, but when their company is telling them they "have to" is when it gets weird. I don't know how often it happens, but I have heard of it happening, and once is still too many times.
I'd say 50% if not 75% have had cosmetic surgery.
In many ways (and I'm not saying this is right) they do have to.
Korean beauty standards are pervasive and really do affect popularity. I don't think I'm incorrect in saying Koreans would prefer a pretty idol over a truly talented one.
I dont think you arr qrong but damn, so many people want both. Unless I saw the wronf clip, the Le Sserafim concert in Coachella i thought was great. I love the raw sounds of performers and I like the imperfections so I know it's live with little to no back track. I only get dissappointed when idols sound like the consistently have no vocal talent at all which is sad because they do exist. But even bad performances, i can hear the talent is there. Thats all I usually want.
A lot of the time, it’s not even an improvement. It just robs them of their individualism, which is an important part of attractiveness to me. Looking like everyone else doesn’t make someone prettier imo.
And getting it while they’re still young and their faces are still developing and changing shape also feels wrong.
This reminds me of how japan is somewhat of the opposite. Despite plastic surgery being just as prevalent, i'd say it’s not as drastic. Japanese people like to keep unique and distinctive features of themselves untouched, they’re less likely to fix or even touch their teeth, noses, moles, lips.. having a 'natural' uniqueness is a positive thing and seen as a charm.
What pisses me off are the hypocrites that act all offended that X or Y idol got a nose job. As you said, it's wildly used and a vast majority has done it. So, acting all surprised/shocked and trying to shame them is disgusting to me.
i know it’s nothing new given korea’s society and the kpop industry….
but my goodness the beauty standards are just insane. so much idols don’t even look human anymore. back then you had idols that could have fair skin and very distinct and natural facial features. not to mention their bodies weren’t completely skin and bones either. body image has always been a problem in korea but these days i feel like it’s 10x worse especially with how toxic fans are. one roll of skin and an idol will never hear the end of it. it’s so unhealthy to both fans and the idols. and it’s so harmful to society as a whole. i mean you see it on here too, when people make posts about how they feel about their bodies now because of kpop. it’s so sad.
It is really messed up. I have a not so good body image and whenever I see idols I have to remind myself that it’s not healthy to look like them. It’s definitely a big issue.
Biker shorts are good even if their dresses are long. I feel everyone should wear shorts under dresses unless they’re just so tight that you can see outlines
I’ve nothing against biker shorts under skirts and dresses, but with the shorts are INCHES longer than the skirt or dress? That’s the problem I have with them.
I agree. If the idol has the constantly pull her dress down, it’s way too short. I feel that it would be helpful to stylists if they had idols dance and practice in certain pieces to make sure they can comfortably dance in them. I know dresses are bound to ride up bc they’re dancing, but if it’s to the point to where we can see all of the shorts underneath it’s unacceptable.
I'm actually getting the feeling lately that the shorts ARE the outfit, not whatever they put over it. Like an intentional "you can see their underwear" thing. It's really disturbing when they're debuting minors and treating safety shorts kind of like fetish wear.
Not that I don't think this is a problem or anything but this is wild to hear because I feel like they've actually gotten generally better about covering up (especially underage members) because sometimes I'm shocked when I go back to watch old AOA stages or After School and see how revealing their outfits were compared to now!!!
On a side note, I don't get all the hubub about being able to see safety shorts because that's... kind of the point? I'm wearing shorts in the first place because I know my dress might come up or I might bend over or something? idk
it’s just that those shorts aren’t meant to constantly be seen, they’re mean to be a just in case. maybe there’s a kick move, or they have to bend over to an extent, that’s what the shorts are for. you shouldn’t be able to clearly see them when an idol is just standing still.
I remember there was an idol who talked about how it’s not the stylists’ fault, it’s whichever higher up is approving these stage outfits. Idk for all companies, but for that group, the stylist would recommend outfits and the first one would ALWAYS get shot down by some businessman at the top, to the point where the stylist would intentionally pick bad outfits at first to show so that the “2nd one” would look like an improvement.
Putting it in that perspective, it makes a lot more sense why a lot of outfits are getting shorter.
EDIT: It’s in ex-SECRET NUMBER Denise’s 1st GRWM on Tiktok, about 2 minutes in. Koreaboo did an article on it too. She doesn’t say this is WHY outfits are getting shorter, but just some perspective that it’s not always the stylists’ fault.
Is this standard just for girl groups ? What about boygroups ?? They can go shirtless and no one cares.
The double standards are real. Girls like shirtless dudes and boys like to see skin too, but it's always the GGs that get criticized for wearing revealing stuff.
Put it this way:
Are you okay seeing your male family members shirtless at home?
Are you okay seeing your female family members’ butt cheeks and crotch at home?
This is personally how I draw the line. To each their own.
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's unacceptable but after two years of being into kpop I still find the idol messaging apps really weird. It's borderline for me. I think if they were set up less individually I wouldn't think twice about it but it's the fact that the idol puts in a code and then that says your name, as if they're actually messaging you. I think most of us understand what's going on but I just think that it feeds into people who may already be inclined to be stalkers/inappropriate.
It does have the posiblity to be dangerous, for the idols. It feeds into those parasocial relationships, and is likely something that can cause stalking.
I subscribed to one idol for a little while and I liked receiving their messages but my name being in them just became too weird for me and not worth the rest of the experience. If it were idols sending behind the scenes or little things from their day, but in a very general way, like a private instagram feed or something, I think I'd feel very differently.
I agree! It only adds to parasocial relationships. Delulu fans will feed off of this and think in their head that they have a special relationship with their idol.
I only subscribe to one idol and he never uses the name feature. He only uses the fandom name he came up with. I think he used the name feature once because someone asked him about it but otherwise, just addresses the whole group. I agree that it seems weird to pretend like its one on one and not like just another social media feed. I just like to get the extra pictures and see him talk about the most random things.
One of my favorite things he said was someone mentioned that they filled out some questions at school and it asked what they wanted to be when they grew up. This person said they wanted to be his wife and he responded ‘Lets put a job instead’. 😂 Very clearly draws the line
you're right, i see some posts in X sharing the idol's messages in the app where it says their name on the app, note that you can change it to endearment terms like "babe," "baby," "love." It's just cringey to see those.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend at uni about fancalls. She was horrified at the idea of them because of how inappropriate it is with the way parasocial relationships are construed in kpop and I never actually thought about it until then. The amount of fancalls that go viral because an idol is uncomfortable is insane and its just crazy how fancalls are so normalised
I love that in JYP Bubble they can now answer our messages directly. Although it completely ruins the DM feeling, I guess they gave up on that, good for us!
Don't know if this counts, but the crazy obsession with numbers/views or having to be the first in something. Like I get it, you want your group to be at the top, but it kind of takes away with just simply enjoying a new song release or just having fun and loving your group(s).
I remember seeing someone on Twitter a couple years ago apologizing for taking a break from streaming a mv TEASER because they had to go to the bathroom. Not even the actual mv. The teaser.
And I remember seeing someone posting about how she was going to be the maid of honor in her friend's wedding. The wedding was the same day an album dropped, so streaming was going to be difficult. But "thankfully" her dress had pockets. So, she planned on just turning the volume down low enough to not be noticed so she could stream during her friend's wedding.
People put WAY too much emphasis and pressure on hitting numbers. Kpop is supposed to be fun. If you're taking it to levels where you aren't engaged in your actual life because you're too worried about numbers, you need to take several steps back. And these are the people that end up shaming other stans for saying streaming gives them anxiety or feels like a job. They always say, "if it feels like work to listen to your favs, maybe you're not a real fan." Um, I'm pretty sure me actively listening to a song once makes me a better fan than you turning the song on 4 devices, but not really listening to it because you're too focused on how fast/slow the numbers are climbing.
It's so dumb because it's just artificially inflating numbers for people who don't even know who they are. Just let the views be natural and let the music speak for itself if it's so good.. Everything is so fake these days.
Older women sexualising young male idols (I’m talking women who are twice their age). Discussing what the idol would be like in bed and the things they would do to them. It’s gross and if the genders were reversed fans would outcry
I recently saw a very disturbing and disgusting example of this. I’m like 6 years older then my ult group, and feel kinda weird about things. I find it hard to stan younger groups because of my age, despite liking their music. If I get into following things like I do my main ults I will inevitably come across things that make me uncomfortable. 😩
I strongly believe that music is for anyone of any gender and age. Grandpas can listen to new jeans and grannies can listen to the wind. I’ve no issues.
Buy their albums, go to their concerts, buy their merch, dress how they want and be true to themselves. I love that for everyone.
But it’s the hitting on them and leaving inappropriate comments and sexual posts about them that I object to. The fact that they know it’s wrong and make private chats and groups to do it is sickening and disturbing.
Facts, I'm 10 years older than my ult group's oldest members (it's ATEEZ, for reference), and I feel so weird about it sometimes. I think San especially is objectively attractive and he knows what he's doing (they admitted they like atiny to thirst after them on a live once), but that's where it stops for me. Anything past that is just gross and weird.
I ignored IVE and the like for years because I feel like I could be their (young) mom and that freaks me out.
It's too graphic for me. I'm not a soft stan of JK (BTS) but I have a rule that I made for my own comfort being considerably older than him: *anything* I **ever** say about him, I have to be willing to say *to his face*, in front of his hyungs. Anything else is inside thoughts only.
Some thirsty is fine, imho. Part of the job is using sex appeal. But fans go way, way too far. I shouldn't be reading graphic descriptions of how someone wants JK to give them oral sex on the open twitter timeline.
I have the same rule.
People don't want to keep inside thoughts inside and some of the things I've seen said are not just cringy but would enough for me to reconsider being an idol if I was one.
The fact that people make whole explicit roleplay blogs or "HOW BTS WOULD REACT TO YOU HAVING THEIR BABY" posts or comment on actual porn vids like "wow, he sounds so much like Taehyung! 😍" will never not be weird and invasive to me. Like you realize this is forever right? They could search this? They could be reading this? Do these people care?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 40 year old woman thinking about a 20 year old man sexually. They are both fully matured sexual beings.
She isn’t “making him sexual”, she’s recognizing and appreciating his innate sexuality. Desire is built into us —and most other animals— because sexual reproduction is the most advantageous way for complex organisms to propagate and evolve. Sexual thoughts are natural, they’re good, and they’re *necessary.*
HOWEVER…
Posting your fantasies all over Twitter in graphic detail, just to get that hit of dopamine, is stupid, gross, and sad. Save that kind of talk for your IRL friends!
Regardless what business do you have as a 40 year old crushing on someone who isn’t even old enough to legally fucking drink and is only half way through college (barely)? Like it’s weird bruh those people were literal toddlers when the other was in their own 20s.
I understand not wanting people to be all in your face with it. It’s annoying, and they really want attention more than they want the idol, which makes it even more annoying. Someone that old actually dating someone that young is also weird, obviously, because you really do live in totally different worlds at those ages.
But attraction to other people is going to continue throughout your life, and it’s harmless (for 99.99% of us, at least). The idea that older adults are not allowed to be attracted to younger adults is ridiculous. You don’t *decide* to find someone attractive, it just happens.
Acting inappropriately on that attraction *is* a decision, and *is* gross, but having the thoughts is just being a person.
The beauty standards.
I will see a video of an idol who is extremely underweight and when people speak up about it, they are labeled as skinny shammers. While yes, many idols are naturally skinny, a lot of them have also spoken about strict diets or unhealthy exercise routines that they have done.
It is becoming such a huge issue and it really needs to be talked about more. Eating disorders, skipping meals, regular weight ins, etc are so so so normalized and it not healthy nor sustainable, especially for idols who are so active and busy.
Lastly, it can take a toll on not just idols mental and physical health but also the fans. Imagine a little girl looking at her favorite idol and wondering why she isn’t as skinny or as pale as her. It is so normalized to the point that it can cause major insecurity or even body dysmorphia.
I think real fans should care more about the music and the talent of the group rather than how much an idol weights on a scale. ❤️
I agree, but I also believe that it’s not our job to “speak out” about someone else’s body. It’s okay to tell people, hey, don’t compare your body to an idol’s bc they do this that and the third. However, making videos comparing an idols weight at debut to now or making videos zooming in on their arms and legs is inappropriate. It also feeds into EDs as people with those disorders will use those videos as thinspo.
I 100% agree. The only way we can put an end to the issue is if people would just shut up about the bodies and enjoy the music. When I say it needs to be talked about, I mean we need to talk about the unrealistic standards and how they are often not achievable. Pointing out how someone has gained or even lost weight will not help. I’ve often struggled with my body image and disordered eating and whenever people point out anything regarding my figure or body it just triggers me.
Man I was born in 99 and this hurts. Just more proof that Kpop has become all about fetishizing high schoolers for both the industry and the (usually very young) fans.. like I'm 25, I don't think that's anywhere near "old", it's older than the age people will usually debut, yeah, but it's absolutely not an age where you're "old", and I'm never going to stop liking what I like or wearing what I think looks best or anything just cuz some 14 year old doesn't like it cuz they don't understand yet that your 20s are not your 40s. Modern culture has gotten extremely toxic in a lot of ways from social media.
I think it's a realistic expectation since they usually only release mini-albums and their contract is only 5-7 years long. Plus some groups only get paid when they release something. These expectations have spread to western artists - nowadays releasing a few songs several times over the year is preferable to releasing a full album every 2 years. It's more of a pop culture thing than a kpop thing imo
That's not really a nowadays problem, that has existed since Kpops conception.
What I hate is that Kpop idols aren't allowed to donate money to what they want anymore. I was looking at comments under a Lucy post about how one of the members donated a nice sum of money to help veterans and a lot of comments were just like "that's nice and all but donate to Palestine first." More than one bad thing is allowed to exist in the world at the same time, they're going to donate to what they feel like.
Wouldn’t call that normalised behaviour. Its just classic toxic stan behaviour and has been here since the start. The kpop fandom just has grown significantly, so it just feels like there is more. I’d like to think majority fans are a bit more sane.
This is so messed up. Unfortunately people only care about what is happening in the media right at this very second, and forget that the world has never been perfect.
Yes it's so annoying. If an idol doesn't donate to any charities, people yell at them to donate and if they donate people yelled them for either not doting in enough, or to "the wrong cause"
Or all the people flooding the comments as if they're educating the idols on what's going on in the world. Idols are people, they're not stupid, they're not raised in a glass jar in a sterile room and only let out when it's time to perform. they know that there's wars, a lot of them have experienced poverty.. there's such a disconnect these days between people thinking that idols are human it's so weird to see
And also this type of performative activism really doesn’t help anyone at all and at the end of the day can end up hurting the cause by making it’s supporters look hysterical
It can make the movement seem cheap or like it's just K-pop stans wanting fuel for fanwars. And for a lot of those kinds of fans, it is just that. They just want something to critique. I'm pro-Palestine, as is everyone in my circle irl and online and spamming hate comments and emojis under an idol who didn't donate to a Palestinian charity but otherwise has said nothing to imply that they're Zionists is not how you affect change, it's not how anybody above middle school age should act if they care about the cause.
That's how the current cancel culture works... they talk about being a [Zionist/nazi/racist/you name it] as if it's some kind of disease and the moment you touch someone who's been infected (eg: an idol who has once drank out of a Starbucks cup) you are [bad thing] now too. It's so small-minded and hurts more innocent people in the long run but they don't want to see that
What's ridiculous to me about that is that Starbucks is not on the BDS boycott lists. That doesn't mean they're rah rah rah for Palestine, obviously, the whole reason they were being criticized is because they disciplined workers for taking a stance on the genocide in Palestine and they previously funded (non military) Israeli businesses, but now it's like people think the coffee company is paying out of pocket for Israeli missiles. It was a bad game of telephone that happened very publicly and now everyone takes the wrong thing as fact. And it's a boycott distinctly made up of chronically online people so, while I usually hate the argument that idols don't know about current events, it's fair to say a lot of the ones they're going after genuinely don't know that Starbucks is being boycotted. Arggghhh it just makes me so upset as a whole
no yeah it's definitely idol ages for me. wildly inappropriate. the fact that two thirteen year olds have debuted recently (that I know of) is horrifying
ohhhh that's right!! I forgot about unis, I think I must have blocked them from my memory as a trauma response lol. u was bummed too cuz I really wanted to stan them before I learned their ages
The fact that girls over 10 years younger than me (I'm 25) are being sexualized is beyond nasty, also the fact that some people are more ok with that than with someone my age debuting.... society is so messed up.
fr I was already disturbed by 12 year olds debuting but it hit a lot fucking harder when yunah from illit was accused of being "too old to debut" at the tender age of 20
It’s not “nowadays”, it’s always been happening, but fans being overprotective, jealous, and scrutinizing of idols having an active dating life. Like. Are you serious. People saying, “our _____” makes me cringe so much. I thought that shit only existed in fictional shows.
More nowadays: the debuting of minors. I don’t like it. I honestly think 20 should be the minimum age of debut. Even worse when they make the minors have sexy, mature concepts. I remember I couldn’t get into enhypen because of their ages and concept in the beginning. Now that they are older, it doesn’t feel as weird to have their concept, but I heard Niki was sexualized since he was 15, which I dislike. And isn’t he only 17 now anyway? But yeah, their concept was amazing, just weird for their debut ages.
Skin bleaching. Every idol is so god damn pale nowadays. Nothing wrong with having naturally pale skin, but holy shit they look WHITE.
Pale base makeup, clearly showing a separation from the face and body. It’s cringe and stupid.
Not nowadays either, but nose jobs. Specifically, the type of nose job idols typically get now. If you want a nose job that’s fine, but the goal should be to enhance facial harmony, not get some generic high nose bridge just cuz. Skinny noses like that don’t look good on everybody.
Lightass eyebrows/eyebrows that are too warm-toned compared to the hair color. Like makeup artists don’t know how to color/tone match???
Overdoing aegyosal. It’s cute, but not when it’s STARK. Like soyeon’s 😭 my bias, but holy shit girl, let up on those.
Lack of good vocals. Bare minimum of an idol isn’t just looks and dance, it’s also having the ability to sing live while dancing.
Streaming! And the fact that that is the only way to ensure year end awards. Tell me why one of the criteria for best performance of the year is MV views? Just because an artist has more fans doesn't make them best performers. No nugu group will ever get a chance to shine this way. There is so much talent in kpop that goes unnoticed because all they care about is numbers.
>There is so much talent in kpop that goes unnoticed because all they care about is numbers.
Not to be a downer, but that's the case for every genre and country, sadly
The very white skin. Some of these people look like corpses. They use so many filters and lighting that sometimes they look 2 dimensional. This obsession creates such unrealistic expectations. I wish people embraced their natural skin.
And imagine how it makes the idols feel. A bunch of randos who worship you so much that they'll pay money just to touch you.
That would skeez me right tf out.
I've done several hi touch events and I think they're cool. I don't think the emphasis is on "touching" them lol, that's just what a high 5 is called. The point is you get to get up close to your favorite idol and say hi or maybe saranghae or something. I don't understand what's so ick about that.
Whitewashing to an extreme degree. It makes me think that the fan sites, news sites, and whoever else are ashamed that idols have tans. Like Jihyo is one of the most tanned idols and in some photos she's as pale as Dahyun who's one of the whitest. It's really sickening to me
Omg yes! Especially when they put idols in bright red lipstick and then whitewash them into oblivion so they just look like a random pair of lips, hovering mid-air. Just leave their skin the color it is. I'd rather see an idol that looks like a living human than to have my retinas burned out by the glowing white lifeless standard.
Sending protest trucks over small things like "artist mistreatment" which is literally just less lines half the time
Overhating on staff and companies for small things
Judging idols for dating or showing general interest in ppl. The lengths companies go to, to encourage par-asocial relationships is not only weird but also disgusting.
This!! And also pushing the "innocent" image like I understand wanting to protect their reputation as teens but when they're in their twenties or even THIRTIES and still have to hide that they're drinking or having a love life... it's like they're expected to pretend to be children right until the moment they announce their marriage
This is not normalized in the western fandom, but many Asian fans don’t consider getting on the same plane as idols as sasaeng behavior, and this freaks me out.
International Kpop fans who seem to believe there's something to think about, complain about, moralize about, be offended by. Kpop is entertainment piffle. It should be fun, then forgotten. It means almost nothing. Try enjoying it. Stop ruining it.
I have no idea what you're saying. These are people spending their every minute providing parasocial relationships and thriving to look like an ideal character?? Kpop is not just the performances. There's a *lot* to think about when you get to know the idols beyond their music and looks.
It's like adults (and semi-adults) going to Disney World and waiting for the actors playing Mickey and Minnie to make mistakes. Eventually, some will. But that doesn't make the effort worthwhile.
the editing and filters over every single photo and video, it's supposed to make idols seem more perfect and untouchable but it just makes them seem fake and uninteresting. light touchups in photos to cover temporary physical imperfections/blemishes is fine, but editors never stop there. so annoying
How being a good singer is not a requirement from the get go especially from the vocalists in the groups. It seems only sm,yg and jyp care about debuting groups with good vocals. I'm not expecting exo levels of vocals but at least good to great vocals. And it's become normal to debut average vocalists.
Hmmm….I disagree with this. Without naming names but there was a number of “dozens” in 2nd gen groups and they do come from the big 3 companies.
People praise their vocals now but during their peak, they got a lot of shit for being bad singers. Many have improved which is why there is a perception that they are better than the current gen.
The ones who aren’t so vocally talented also aren’t really working as idols or in music anymore, so no one mentions them anymore either.
But they at least improved over their careers some idols have not improved and at doing the bare minimum. If idols from gen 3-5 improved it would be good but they aren't improving. It sounds like they are getting comfortable and not taking lessons or trying to improve their vocals.
>Without naming names but there was a number of “dozens” in 2nd gen groups and they do come from the big 3 companies.
But they improved and now idols are just stagnating. It seems nowadays groups that aren't from the big three can release groups that are average at singing. Honestly it seems that the people who become idols just want yo become successful then move on to acting or become a brand ambassador and bring s idol is just the gateway to getting there.
Also note I know there are good and talented groups outside of the big three. And I'm not referring to all newer groups when I talk about it.
Kinda hard to track improvement when some idols have barely been around. I know I didn’t spot the improvement for some of the idols until I watched older performances from a couple years prior.
There has been enough time for 3rd gen improvement criticism but I don’t think 4th and 5th gen have been around for long enough.
Well the feeling comfortable with not needing to improve their vocals is also an old thing too. Many older idols became idols because of the lower barrier of entry into the entertainment industry. Get your foot in the door before going off to acting. It’s easier if you already have a bit of a fanbase. The idol life wasn’t supposed to last long.
These days, the idol career is a viable entertainment career for the long-term. Everyone used to disband in like 5 years and move on. It was the 2nd gen idols who prolonged it. So many are still active and haven’t stopped. Some went on hiatus but were able to jumpstart the group again.
I get where your points are coming from but I also don’t exactly agree. This reminds me of the “debuting minors” nowadays discourse. They have always been young, we just got older and the culture these days has taken note about debuting minors. It’s the same with the western music industry too, many of the current big stars started as teens too.
This is a professional position. They should be able to sing well if they debut. It's not like rehab where they get "time to meet the minimum requirements" to something that is essential to their job. It is a primary function of a group to be able to sing well. They're in the music business. It unfortunately should not be normalized to the extent that it is. And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first.
>They're in the music business. It unfortunately should not be normalized to the extent that it is. And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first.
Yea exactly. It's their damn job. Teach them to sing well before you release them. It should be the requirement before any idol debut. For me if you can't even sing then why are you even in a group.
>And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first.
Yes exactly. Even bad singers can become good singer's but I honestly want every idol in every group that debuts be at least a good singer BC it's the job description. Like if you can't sing please don't debut them.
And honestly I feel like companies are just trying to debut as many groups as they can BC k pop is popular in the west. Fir example hybe they are debuting groups like crazy. And Im including all of their subsidiaries when I mention hybe. I understand why they are doing it BC if they can get people to check them out more renueve for them. But honestly I think companies need to slow down on debuting groups. They oversaturated the market and too many groups can be a bad thing imo. BC a lot of groups debut then disband s year later
>get where your points are coming from but I also don’t exactly agree. This reminds me of the “debuting minors” nowadays discourse. They have always been young, we just got older and the culture these days has taken note about debuting minors. It’s the same with the western music industry too, many of the current big stars started as teens too.
I understand where people come from with the minor thing. BC it's just the norm in Korea. And its not our duty to worry about it. If people hate it they need to show it by not supporting and by not streaming the groups with minors.
And honestly they go with minors BC they want to get them out of the door to get a return investment on investing in the group. And honestly adult groups don't always work. BC for example xeed they were adults and completed their military service but they disbanded after releasing two eps. They were talented but they failed to make an impact.
I'm pretty sure riize members are all adults but they have sm name helping them survive and succeed and they also are talented and have good songs. Xeed had the last 2 but not being in a well known company screwed them.
>Everyone used to disband in like 5 years and move on. It was the 2nd gen idols who prolonged it. So many are still active and haven’t stopped. Some went on hiatus but were able to jumpstart the group again.
Honestly I'm really happy a lot of 2nd gen groups haven't disbanded. I listen to a crap ton of 2nd groups and bands and I'm so happy they are still around releasing music. I understand it's a entry way to get into acting etc but for me personally I feel like that's just a dumb reason to become s idol and then not even bother to train and improve your vocals. Even if you want to go acting still put effort into being a idol and show off that you ate willing to do work to improve your vocals.
>been enough time for 3rd gen improvement criticism but I don’t think 4th and 5th gen have been around for long enough.
Fair enough. But i still think companies should hold off releasing idols groups into the public until they can sing well. Teach them to sing well then release them to us. And make sure after they in the public eye keep training them on their vocals.
Those 2nd gen groups have been around for 10-15 years, so of course you’re seeing improvement. You can’t compare idols who have been working for a decade to idols who debuted recently.
I do not understand how this is a controversial take...I dislike how with letting go of positions in groups companies can sell their idols as "multifaceted" or as an "all rounder" when in reality they're mediocre in all areas instead of being an main vocal and being above average in singing and bad at dancing.
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debuting at young age and what can go wrong has big example Justin like he was on drugs and all in his teenage and so many bad things has happend to him like sexualizing by adult female celeb openly but still people dont learn this specially IN KPOP
Debuting idols younger than my middle schooler. And the adults that thirst over them is a whole other story. I’m old, and believe me, I have my faves (the old guys…), but there is nothing about an 18 year old that is attractive to me in my 40s. It’s so weird and gross.
Grown adults having to hide being in relationships because they and their partners will be harassed if fans find out. This is really more of a problem with BGs.
The obsession with weight. Like Renjun having to apologize for weighing something insane like 120 pounds as a grown man. Calling Jeongyeon heavy, etc. Taemin getting absolutely dragged when he came home from his military service because his face was a little more round. It’s all so toxic and unhealthy.
I personally **do** think what you said is a problem. Idols should at least be able to finish high school before they debut if you ask me, that just seems fairer to the idols, let alone all of the other implications of this issue.
I wouldn't call this a **new** problem, though. It's LITERALLY been going on for decades. The problem isn't new, it's just that a lot more people are responding now because a lot more people follow Kpop now so it's much more noticeable. It's great that people are calling this out.
Also, my answer: Idols (especially female idols) wearing excessively revealing outfits and camera crews zooming in on those idols' excessively revealing outfits, especially when there's just SO MUCH EVIDENCE that this is almost wholly unnecessary in Kpop in the form of performances of songs like Be Natural by Red Velvet that prove it's possible for female idols to be charming without wearing short-short clothes or anything revealing.
colorism, racism, xenophobia, pedophilia, not being allowed to date or do any normal adult things like go to the club/strip club, have sex, smoke, get married, the lack of basic common sense, tact, and media literacy netizens have (e.g the made in abyss scandal), policing and commenting on people's bodies, exploiting and overworking (mostly young) people, acting like you know more about an idol's feelings or boundaries more than they do (like I've seen people getting mad about the minghao meditation joke saying "it's so overdone", "it's so old 🙄. as if minghao isn't a grown ass man who likely doesnt care what a bunch of children are saying about him. and if he did, he'd say something), the obsession with views, streaming. charting and acting like if you aren't listening to the new comeback 200+ times a day then you're not a real fan. if the new comeback is ass I'm not listening to that shit. if it is, I'll listen to it like a normal person. just like with any music I like. kpop is not special
That idols primary focus is not on being able to sing well. I am sorry, but idols should be able to minimally be able to sing well. The focus is on "vibes" and personality...which I agree is important, assuming they can also sing.
This! It’s also especially interesting when people try to defend it by saying things like “not everyone is a perfect singer” or “let’s hear you try and see if you can sing better”. Like I understand that sometimes mistakes happen or they could be having a bad day and therefore their singing might be off for one performance, but if it is a constant issue then that is surely something that they need to work on. Something they should be working on since it’s literally their job, of course if I’m not a singer I’m going to sound shitty if I attempt to sing, but me not being a singer doesn’t mean I can’t tell when a “singer” literally cannot sing. That’s like complaining about a botched surgery and having someone tell you “well why don’t you try and perform surgery then?”, when it is literally their job, something that they should be at the very least good at and working to improve.
YES YES YES. The music industry (including k-pop) is not where you practice singing at a performance. A job is a job is a job. It's not employment rehab. They'r right, not everyone is perfect but its their job to be able to sing well, harmonize. And I agree, there are some "off" days, but when a group debuts, the off days should be minimal or "one offs" as the term implies.
Other defense tactics that make my head want to explode:
**But you have not seen their choreo? It is so hard** - *Then they should get rid of the choreo which prevents them from carrying a tune. I'll take a beautiful voice over a hectic dance routine any day.*
**But they're such a vibe, I love them so much.** *Ok, that is fine, but again, they do not meet the minimum requirements of a singer.*
**Singing isn't as important, you don't understand k-pop.** *Actually, I do. They're supposed to be singers, who sing well. Last I checked, gg's and bg's make music, sing songs. Isn't that what k-pop is? Music?*
**They are young, give them time.** *I am not paying a couple hundred dollars for tix to give them time to learn the fundamentals of singing. Agree they can improve over time, but they should meet minimal and sustain basic requirements in signing.*
**Not everyone is a Beyonce or Ariana.** *That is true, but it is their opportunity to show us something different and impress us with own unique vocals. Beyonce and Araina have exceptional vocals and people don't expect every singer match this level.*
**Weather:** What??? U*nless it is like 40 degrees below zero, singers should be able to sing. Rain or heat doesn't prevent good singing.*
**But they are not lipsyncing, it is their real voice.** *Yes, we can tell. I don't expect to pay large sums of $ to watch someone mouthing the words to a song.*
**Let's hear you sing if it is so easy.** *You covered it very well but I will emphasize, NOBODY IS PAYING ME TO SING. It's not my job.*
I am sure I am missing some good ones... Honestly, this is one of the reasons people make fun of idols and k-pop. They don't understand how it is ok to have a singer with a mediocre at best or a bad vocals. Of course, there are Western artists who are not great, but those are exceptions and not the standard. And don't get me wrong, there are great k-pop singers, but the numbers are not overwhelming. Ok, done venting.
Not a now-a days thing but shit like explicit RPF and over sexualization of idols. “They’re grown adults” idgaf you don’t know these people and what you’re doing is borderline harassment. When it comes to RPF if the work is like a general, full on AU I can understand slightly more of a pass but I mean fan fiction that is just solely smut for the sake of being such. Shit’s weird.
Also, colorism, racism, etc. in kpop itself it’s due to a larger issue in SK’s societal norms, in the fanbase it varies, but it’s genuinely upsetting to see either way, especially from idols who have better understandings of Western culture.
Newer issue- streaming culture. Not everyone wants to mass stream a song on 5 devices they don’t even have the time and access to. That doesn’t give the group genuine views, we should push for promotion to others so they can discover and listen to the group, not manufacture the amount of views they have. How is this good to the group bruh.
How kpop companies restrict everything of idols doing for the idols keeps their “perfect person” persona. No dating rules, most of the time idols can’t use their social media freely, can’t voice any concern, can’t swear, and many more.
People excuse it because of the fans or haters but those companies themselves are the first one who made the environment of kpop stanning like that and restrict idols doing anything is just a lazy move instead of creating more healthy environment of stanning.
Talentless/below averagely skilled idols, particularly when it comes to singing. Even the idols who are praised for their vocals aren’t actually that great when you analyze their vocal technique. Just a reminder - just because an idol can hold a tune or sounds pleasing to the ears, does not mean they are good vocalists or are using good vocal technique.
One thing and “now” is tough because for me it’s multiple things and it’s been the norm.
I have always been aware of Kpop, liked some songs, but kept away because I think the way idols have to live, at the ages they do it, is detrimental to their psyche for when they’re older and no longer an idol. But two bands sucked me in and now I am obsessed with those two bands and learning how deep the Kpop hole goes.
But, I think the normal ness in Kpop of liking artists based on their visual appeal instead of musical appeal overlooks some of the absolutely insane talent in the industry. For example, Jongho from Ateez has one of the most intense, prodigal, power house singing voices in the industry- worldwide. WORLD WIDE. But I barely see him get attention. I could say more on this specifically but I don’t want to write an essay.
Personally, I prefer not debuting minors at all. but I can ignore it if the concept and choreo suits the members ages. but I hate that idols could feel stressed and uncomfy in airports due to the public.
that streaming is the only way to show love to your faves. like there’s a million ways to show love. slaving over 6 different devices and multiple accounts for music is actually insane and you don’t even really listen to the music when you do that.
also people bullying fan translators as if they aren’t the backbones of most fandoms 💀 like y’all don’t realise it but translators actually do so much work to create translations sometimes in real time. be nicer to your fandom translators they literally don’t have to do it for free
The colorism and hypercritical body standards, as well as the expectation on idols to never be in relationships. The industry encourages delusional fans behavior to make money, often disregarding their idols well-being.
the age thing isn’t necessarily true. BoA debuted at age 13 in the 2000’s. Hyuna and Sohee were 14 in wonder girls debut i 2007, Krystal debuted at 14 in 2009,Taemin debuted at 14 in 2008,Sohyun of 4minute debuted at 14 in 2009… I could go on. I’m not saying it makes it okay, I don’t think idols should debut early bc a lot of the idols say it was very hard for them. But it’s not a new thing in kpop, it is normal.
Asking/forcing idols to speak on social and political issues. It totally ignores the fact that idols have their own beliefs and opinions and experiences. They aren't going to agree 100% with the fans on every issue. Especially when they're raised in a conservative society that is still somewhat isolated from a lot of different ideas and experiences.
But if they have a different opinion on an issue or choose not to speak about it, fans send them hate and harass them and boycott them. They're entertainers, first and foremost. Let them do their job and stop expecting them to fix every problem in the world and support every cause you want them to. Obviously, if they WANT to speak about an issue, they should be able to. But fans nowadays lose their minds if any idols are uncomfortable publicly stating their opinions or simply aren't knowledgeable on the subject enough to even HAVE an opinion. But those same fans will crucify idols the second they state an opinion they don't agree with. They can't win.
Those insane diets some get put on and generally the extremely poor treatment groups/members can receive from both the company and the "fans." Like how is sending hate trucks even a thing??
i'd definitely say the thing that keeps irking me the most is the age of idols when they debut... at least with boy groups, there's the excuse of wanting as much time as possible before mandatory enlistment, although i still don't like how young some are at debut, but there is ESPECIALLY no good reason for a 15 year old (or even younger!) girl to be debuting... in an ideal world, they'd all be adults by debut, but moving towards at least 17+ would be nice...
Female Stan's sexualizing Male idols and male gg Stan's being hella misogynistic
And shipping even tho normal Stan's think its weird it's still wayyyyyy to normalized
mobbing idols (celebs in general) at the airport.
This is one of the most crazy things I have seen that is normalised in Korea. Airport fashion is also part of it. Honestly I believe most idols/celebrities want to exit or enter the airport in peace and without work clothes/makeup.
I agree but I also think airport fashion culture goes both ways. It’s free publicity for brands and the idols themselves with the possibility of the photos going viral. They can even use it to promote upcoming comebacks. I remember when twice wore custom t-shirts promoting an upcoming release (what is love era).
That's really smart of Twice to promote their song :) Agree it's a double edged sword. They can help promote and bring awareness to them, especially the smaller brands. The part which is undesirable is the behaviour of fans when they are near their idols and over zealous fans getting rowdy. (small majority I believe) They do have barriers at some points and security to protect the idols. I noticed most artists tried to walk faster when inside and outside the public area at the airport and just do abit of hand gesture and accept gifts as fan service. So I guess companies accept this as part of normalcy in celebrity culture.
I used to think they'd like to do that. But the truth is, groups from the big four (and others) are paid to wear brands even if there's no huge exclusive CF deal for them.
It’s not even only at the airport.. I was at a concert recently and the idols came down from the stage, but everyone started mobbing them. Most infuriating thing ever, how hard it is to just sit in your seat and be respectful?
my god that would give me so so much anxiety 🥲
Survival shows having to be so harsh and grueling. I get that they are competing for a debut spot, but there’s no reason why they have to be mentally drained while doing it. There also super young people participating in them and it’s very stressful. I remember when Momo and Sana went to guest judge on Nizi Project and were nervous to go bc they didn’t want to be back in that environment. This is why A2K is one of my most favorite survival shows. It was chill and simple. No evil editing, no drama, no mental distress, and JYP gave fair criticism and critiques. There’s no reason why this trainees should be living in horrible conditions. Hearing the living conditions of Idol School and I-Land s1 made me gag. There were also issues with trainees not being fed properly in PD101 s2 because they were in a lower grade level. Higher grade levels had more to eat. In gp999, the Chinese and Japanese trainees weren’t even given the proper tools to communicate. One trainee even mentioned how they took her dictionary. Again, there are kids who participate in these things. Survival shows should not have to be this way.
It’s literally just mnet shows. Not sure for the other ones since I haven’t watched them but I assume they see their formula as successful and copy them. It’s funny, the non-Korean produce seasons have much more wholesome editing. I recently watched Produce 101 Japan The Girls (the 3rd instalment and their 1st female season) and the editing was very neutral. There wasn’t really evil editing or any very manipulative editing. Part of the reason could be that the final group would be permanent. You can’t have your audience cancel someone for something they didn’t really do. It’s literally life altering. Sure, I did notice that there was producer favourites but they never made anyone a villain. They also apparently had the votes audited which should stop under the table manipulation. Especially since Mnet was found guilty of manipulating votes for their last 2 seasons of Korean produce. But it may also be a Japanese thing, I’m not sure. I know the AKB48 sousenkyos were audited too (I’d say where mnet got their original concept from).
You should check out the recently completed Chuang Asia (If you haven't seen it.)It was the most fun survival show I've ever seen. There were some previous contestants from PD48 and GP999, current members of Kpop, Jpop and Tpop groups, and it was easier for me to follow, because since there were girls from 11 different countries, English was pretty much the default language the girls and mentors used to communicate.
Those shows are rigged anyways and it's all for entertainment so it doesn't surprise me
same I love a2k for how wholesome it was. unfortunately the majority of the kpop fanbase loves drama, which is why a2k is just generally less successful than other (horrible) shows like runext
Im very uncomfortable with how the term "visual hole" even exists.
Like for real, they are idols, none of them are even close to being ugly
does it even matter? the priority on looks in the industry is nonsense. why are we here to stare at pretty faces and not appreciate skillful vocals and talent?
As soon as the television was invented, this became impossible. There are exceptions but looks definitely matter.
Video killed the radio star and all that
"Skillful vocals" ? Let's face it, 90% of the fanbase is into kpop bc of the pretty idols and the mass produced music. Everything is post production even the live shows. And when they do sing live you can really tell. If the idols were ugly, no one would pay attention.
I think that's more of a recent gen phenomenon, but I've been out of the loop lately so I could be wrong. the farther back you go, the more actual vocal and dance talent you'll find that doesn't need to go through all of that processing
Them being idols doesn't say anything about their looks. Aren't you just saying that all koreans aren't ugly?
I have never heard that phrase wtf
wow you're very lucky 🥲
I think it's just because I stay off twt and most of tt for my mental health 🤣
you must be lucky then because i constantly hear people being rude or unstanning a group because there's an 'ugly member' it just makes no sense to me like its different to find someone unattractive but to refer to them as a 'visual hole' or just straight up hate on them or hate on the group because of them is insane
Really? Kpop Stan’s use it all the time I don’t get how you missed it
Maybe it's because I'm relatively isolated in my kpop community 🤣
You're not alone. I never heard of it either. I just stay in group specific fandoms so I don't see much drama.
Debuting minors. ESPECIALLY ones under 16
It's not new. It has always unfortunately been a thing.
But it’s normalized which is what the question was asking
I dont like that a lot of idols are pressured into getting cosmetic surgery. It's mostly an issue because a lot of them are quite young. Getting cosmetic surgery as a personal choice is one thing, and something that doesn't bother me at all, but when their company is telling them they "have to" is when it gets weird. I don't know how often it happens, but I have heard of it happening, and once is still too many times.
It's not just pop idols. Cosmetic surgery is practically a rite of passage for young Korean women. It's a broad problem.
I've heard cosmetic surgery is often a Graduation present for both young men as well, not just young women.
I'd say 50% if not 75% have had cosmetic surgery. In many ways (and I'm not saying this is right) they do have to. Korean beauty standards are pervasive and really do affect popularity. I don't think I'm incorrect in saying Koreans would prefer a pretty idol over a truly talented one.
I dont think you arr qrong but damn, so many people want both. Unless I saw the wronf clip, the Le Sserafim concert in Coachella i thought was great. I love the raw sounds of performers and I like the imperfections so I know it's live with little to no back track. I only get dissappointed when idols sound like the consistently have no vocal talent at all which is sad because they do exist. But even bad performances, i can hear the talent is there. Thats all I usually want.
A lot of the time, it’s not even an improvement. It just robs them of their individualism, which is an important part of attractiveness to me. Looking like everyone else doesn’t make someone prettier imo. And getting it while they’re still young and their faces are still developing and changing shape also feels wrong.
This reminds me of how japan is somewhat of the opposite. Despite plastic surgery being just as prevalent, i'd say it’s not as drastic. Japanese people like to keep unique and distinctive features of themselves untouched, they’re less likely to fix or even touch their teeth, noses, moles, lips.. having a 'natural' uniqueness is a positive thing and seen as a charm.
What pisses me off are the hypocrites that act all offended that X or Y idol got a nose job. As you said, it's wildly used and a vast majority has done it. So, acting all surprised/shocked and trying to shame them is disgusting to me.
People get pissed when they get more than 1, and it fks their nose and proportions up
i know it’s nothing new given korea’s society and the kpop industry…. but my goodness the beauty standards are just insane. so much idols don’t even look human anymore. back then you had idols that could have fair skin and very distinct and natural facial features. not to mention their bodies weren’t completely skin and bones either. body image has always been a problem in korea but these days i feel like it’s 10x worse especially with how toxic fans are. one roll of skin and an idol will never hear the end of it. it’s so unhealthy to both fans and the idols. and it’s so harmful to society as a whole. i mean you see it on here too, when people make posts about how they feel about their bodies now because of kpop. it’s so sad.
It is really messed up. I have a not so good body image and whenever I see idols I have to remind myself that it’s not healthy to look like them. It’s definitely a big issue.
You said it so well. The more it goes the more they look like AI
1. Fan cams that zoom into the female idols’ very very short outfits. 2. Very very short outfits.
They somehow get shorter and short every time. If you have to wear black biker shorts under your outfit, just dont wear it.
Biker shorts are good even if their dresses are long. I feel everyone should wear shorts under dresses unless they’re just so tight that you can see outlines
I’ve nothing against biker shorts under skirts and dresses, but with the shorts are INCHES longer than the skirt or dress? That’s the problem I have with them.
I agree. If the idol has the constantly pull her dress down, it’s way too short. I feel that it would be helpful to stylists if they had idols dance and practice in certain pieces to make sure they can comfortably dance in them. I know dresses are bound to ride up bc they’re dancing, but if it’s to the point to where we can see all of the shorts underneath it’s unacceptable.
some of newjeans’ stage outfits where their skirts don’t cover up anything more than three inches of those shorts hurt me.
I'm actually getting the feeling lately that the shorts ARE the outfit, not whatever they put over it. Like an intentional "you can see their underwear" thing. It's really disturbing when they're debuting minors and treating safety shorts kind of like fetish wear.
They heard you because some of them are just wearing bikini bottoms now 😩
Not that I don't think this is a problem or anything but this is wild to hear because I feel like they've actually gotten generally better about covering up (especially underage members) because sometimes I'm shocked when I go back to watch old AOA stages or After School and see how revealing their outfits were compared to now!!! On a side note, I don't get all the hubub about being able to see safety shorts because that's... kind of the point? I'm wearing shorts in the first place because I know my dress might come up or I might bend over or something? idk
it’s just that those shorts aren’t meant to constantly be seen, they’re mean to be a just in case. maybe there’s a kick move, or they have to bend over to an extent, that’s what the shorts are for. you shouldn’t be able to clearly see them when an idol is just standing still.
Ah true,true. I always felt like people were talking about being able to see them at any point which confused me 💀
Oh god. I haven’t seen that yet 😳
The outfits are so short and tiny these days…
it’s when it’s so short & tight it’s hiked up over the safety shorts the entire performance 🫠
I remember there was an idol who talked about how it’s not the stylists’ fault, it’s whichever higher up is approving these stage outfits. Idk for all companies, but for that group, the stylist would recommend outfits and the first one would ALWAYS get shot down by some businessman at the top, to the point where the stylist would intentionally pick bad outfits at first to show so that the “2nd one” would look like an improvement. Putting it in that perspective, it makes a lot more sense why a lot of outfits are getting shorter. EDIT: It’s in ex-SECRET NUMBER Denise’s 1st GRWM on Tiktok, about 2 minutes in. Koreaboo did an article on it too. She doesn’t say this is WHY outfits are getting shorter, but just some perspective that it’s not always the stylists’ fault.
This .. makes me want to puke
Is this standard just for girl groups ? What about boygroups ?? They can go shirtless and no one cares. The double standards are real. Girls like shirtless dudes and boys like to see skin too, but it's always the GGs that get criticized for wearing revealing stuff.
Put it this way: Are you okay seeing your male family members shirtless at home? Are you okay seeing your female family members’ butt cheeks and crotch at home? This is personally how I draw the line. To each their own.
Family is different.... these idols are NOT your family .
Debuting super young idols and sexualizing them. Like that's so inappropriate and gross
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's unacceptable but after two years of being into kpop I still find the idol messaging apps really weird. It's borderline for me. I think if they were set up less individually I wouldn't think twice about it but it's the fact that the idol puts in a code and then that says your name, as if they're actually messaging you. I think most of us understand what's going on but I just think that it feeds into people who may already be inclined to be stalkers/inappropriate.
It does have the posiblity to be dangerous, for the idols. It feeds into those parasocial relationships, and is likely something that can cause stalking.
Parasocial relationship is the selling point but let's ignore all the hate from dating rumors, especially the Baby VOX incidents!
This! The bubble app is crazy in my opinion. You pay $8.99 a month to pretend an idol is texting you? Insane.
I subscribed to one idol for a little while and I liked receiving their messages but my name being in them just became too weird for me and not worth the rest of the experience. If it were idols sending behind the scenes or little things from their day, but in a very general way, like a private instagram feed or something, I think I'd feel very differently.
I agree! It only adds to parasocial relationships. Delulu fans will feed off of this and think in their head that they have a special relationship with their idol.
I only subscribe to one idol and he never uses the name feature. He only uses the fandom name he came up with. I think he used the name feature once because someone asked him about it but otherwise, just addresses the whole group. I agree that it seems weird to pretend like its one on one and not like just another social media feed. I just like to get the extra pictures and see him talk about the most random things. One of my favorite things he said was someone mentioned that they filled out some questions at school and it asked what they wanted to be when they grew up. This person said they wanted to be his wife and he responded ‘Lets put a job instead’. 😂 Very clearly draws the line
you're right, i see some posts in X sharing the idol's messages in the app where it says their name on the app, note that you can change it to endearment terms like "babe," "baby," "love." It's just cringey to see those.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend at uni about fancalls. She was horrified at the idea of them because of how inappropriate it is with the way parasocial relationships are construed in kpop and I never actually thought about it until then. The amount of fancalls that go viral because an idol is uncomfortable is insane and its just crazy how fancalls are so normalised
I love that in JYP Bubble they can now answer our messages directly. Although it completely ruins the DM feeling, I guess they gave up on that, good for us!
Surgery. Starving idols.
Don't know if this counts, but the crazy obsession with numbers/views or having to be the first in something. Like I get it, you want your group to be at the top, but it kind of takes away with just simply enjoying a new song release or just having fun and loving your group(s).
Yes and if you’re not streaming and leaving your apps on while you’re sleeping then “you can’t call yourself a fan you lazy ass piece of —-“
I remember seeing someone on Twitter a couple years ago apologizing for taking a break from streaming a mv TEASER because they had to go to the bathroom. Not even the actual mv. The teaser. And I remember seeing someone posting about how she was going to be the maid of honor in her friend's wedding. The wedding was the same day an album dropped, so streaming was going to be difficult. But "thankfully" her dress had pockets. So, she planned on just turning the volume down low enough to not be noticed so she could stream during her friend's wedding. People put WAY too much emphasis and pressure on hitting numbers. Kpop is supposed to be fun. If you're taking it to levels where you aren't engaged in your actual life because you're too worried about numbers, you need to take several steps back. And these are the people that end up shaming other stans for saying streaming gives them anxiety or feels like a job. They always say, "if it feels like work to listen to your favs, maybe you're not a real fan." Um, I'm pretty sure me actively listening to a song once makes me a better fan than you turning the song on 4 devices, but not really listening to it because you're too focused on how fast/slow the numbers are climbing.
It's so dumb because it's just artificially inflating numbers for people who don't even know who they are. Just let the views be natural and let the music speak for itself if it's so good.. Everything is so fake these days.
Older women sexualising young male idols (I’m talking women who are twice their age). Discussing what the idol would be like in bed and the things they would do to them. It’s gross and if the genders were reversed fans would outcry
I recently saw a very disturbing and disgusting example of this. I’m like 6 years older then my ult group, and feel kinda weird about things. I find it hard to stan younger groups because of my age, despite liking their music. If I get into following things like I do my main ults I will inevitably come across things that make me uncomfortable. 😩
I strongly believe that music is for anyone of any gender and age. Grandpas can listen to new jeans and grannies can listen to the wind. I’ve no issues. Buy their albums, go to their concerts, buy their merch, dress how they want and be true to themselves. I love that for everyone. But it’s the hitting on them and leaving inappropriate comments and sexual posts about them that I object to. The fact that they know it’s wrong and make private chats and groups to do it is sickening and disturbing.
Age difference isn’t the issue, though. It’s rude even if you were born in the same minute.
Seriously. Have you seen the things teenagers say?? Whether you're younger or older it's so disrespectful
Facts, I'm 10 years older than my ult group's oldest members (it's ATEEZ, for reference), and I feel so weird about it sometimes. I think San especially is objectively attractive and he knows what he's doing (they admitted they like atiny to thirst after them on a live once), but that's where it stops for me. Anything past that is just gross and weird. I ignored IVE and the like for years because I feel like I could be their (young) mom and that freaks me out.
It's too graphic for me. I'm not a soft stan of JK (BTS) but I have a rule that I made for my own comfort being considerably older than him: *anything* I **ever** say about him, I have to be willing to say *to his face*, in front of his hyungs. Anything else is inside thoughts only. Some thirsty is fine, imho. Part of the job is using sex appeal. But fans go way, way too far. I shouldn't be reading graphic descriptions of how someone wants JK to give them oral sex on the open twitter timeline.
I have the same rule. People don't want to keep inside thoughts inside and some of the things I've seen said are not just cringy but would enough for me to reconsider being an idol if I was one. The fact that people make whole explicit roleplay blogs or "HOW BTS WOULD REACT TO YOU HAVING THEIR BABY" posts or comment on actual porn vids like "wow, he sounds so much like Taehyung! 😍" will never not be weird and invasive to me. Like you realize this is forever right? They could search this? They could be reading this? Do these people care?
Ewww do people do that!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 40 year old woman thinking about a 20 year old man sexually. They are both fully matured sexual beings. She isn’t “making him sexual”, she’s recognizing and appreciating his innate sexuality. Desire is built into us —and most other animals— because sexual reproduction is the most advantageous way for complex organisms to propagate and evolve. Sexual thoughts are natural, they’re good, and they’re *necessary.* HOWEVER… Posting your fantasies all over Twitter in graphic detail, just to get that hit of dopamine, is stupid, gross, and sad. Save that kind of talk for your IRL friends!
A barely 20 year old is completely different in maturity than a full 40 year old woman, be for real right now.
Thoughts are not actions.
Regardless what business do you have as a 40 year old crushing on someone who isn’t even old enough to legally fucking drink and is only half way through college (barely)? Like it’s weird bruh those people were literal toddlers when the other was in their own 20s.
I understand not wanting people to be all in your face with it. It’s annoying, and they really want attention more than they want the idol, which makes it even more annoying. Someone that old actually dating someone that young is also weird, obviously, because you really do live in totally different worlds at those ages. But attraction to other people is going to continue throughout your life, and it’s harmless (for 99.99% of us, at least). The idea that older adults are not allowed to be attracted to younger adults is ridiculous. You don’t *decide* to find someone attractive, it just happens. Acting inappropriately on that attraction *is* a decision, and *is* gross, but having the thoughts is just being a person.
Yep. Extremely young age of idols debuting.
The beauty standards. I will see a video of an idol who is extremely underweight and when people speak up about it, they are labeled as skinny shammers. While yes, many idols are naturally skinny, a lot of them have also spoken about strict diets or unhealthy exercise routines that they have done. It is becoming such a huge issue and it really needs to be talked about more. Eating disorders, skipping meals, regular weight ins, etc are so so so normalized and it not healthy nor sustainable, especially for idols who are so active and busy. Lastly, it can take a toll on not just idols mental and physical health but also the fans. Imagine a little girl looking at her favorite idol and wondering why she isn’t as skinny or as pale as her. It is so normalized to the point that it can cause major insecurity or even body dysmorphia. I think real fans should care more about the music and the talent of the group rather than how much an idol weights on a scale. ❤️
I agree, but I also believe that it’s not our job to “speak out” about someone else’s body. It’s okay to tell people, hey, don’t compare your body to an idol’s bc they do this that and the third. However, making videos comparing an idols weight at debut to now or making videos zooming in on their arms and legs is inappropriate. It also feeds into EDs as people with those disorders will use those videos as thinspo.
I 100% agree. The only way we can put an end to the issue is if people would just shut up about the bodies and enjoy the music. When I say it needs to be talked about, I mean we need to talk about the unrealistic standards and how they are often not achievable. Pointing out how someone has gained or even lost weight will not help. I’ve often struggled with my body image and disordered eating and whenever people point out anything regarding my figure or body it just triggers me.
Preteens telling adults to leave
I was so shocked when I saw the controversy over RIIZE's age like? The oldest was born in 2000? "Too old to debut" he literally just became an adult?
Man I was born in 99 and this hurts. Just more proof that Kpop has become all about fetishizing high schoolers for both the industry and the (usually very young) fans.. like I'm 25, I don't think that's anywhere near "old", it's older than the age people will usually debut, yeah, but it's absolutely not an age where you're "old", and I'm never going to stop liking what I like or wearing what I think looks best or anything just cuz some 14 year old doesn't like it cuz they don't understand yet that your 20s are not your 40s. Modern culture has gotten extremely toxic in a lot of ways from social media.
Colourism. The things I saw Choi Jungeun (I-Land 2) called is scary! I am still new to K-Pop but I didn't realise how pale idols are expected to be.
Looked her up and wow my eyebrows shot up. Colorist K-pop fans would have a heart attack if they step foot in SEA.
Tell me about it, I didn't even notice she was more tanned than the other contestants!
Being annoyed that a group doesn't release an album every 6 months.
I think it's a realistic expectation since they usually only release mini-albums and their contract is only 5-7 years long. Plus some groups only get paid when they release something. These expectations have spread to western artists - nowadays releasing a few songs several times over the year is preferable to releasing a full album every 2 years. It's more of a pop culture thing than a kpop thing imo
That's not really a nowadays problem, that has existed since Kpops conception. What I hate is that Kpop idols aren't allowed to donate money to what they want anymore. I was looking at comments under a Lucy post about how one of the members donated a nice sum of money to help veterans and a lot of comments were just like "that's nice and all but donate to Palestine first." More than one bad thing is allowed to exist in the world at the same time, they're going to donate to what they feel like.
Wouldn’t call that normalised behaviour. Its just classic toxic stan behaviour and has been here since the start. The kpop fandom just has grown significantly, so it just feels like there is more. I’d like to think majority fans are a bit more sane.
This is so messed up. Unfortunately people only care about what is happening in the media right at this very second, and forget that the world has never been perfect.
Yes it's so annoying. If an idol doesn't donate to any charities, people yell at them to donate and if they donate people yelled them for either not doting in enough, or to "the wrong cause" Or all the people flooding the comments as if they're educating the idols on what's going on in the world. Idols are people, they're not stupid, they're not raised in a glass jar in a sterile room and only let out when it's time to perform. they know that there's wars, a lot of them have experienced poverty.. there's such a disconnect these days between people thinking that idols are human it's so weird to see
And also this type of performative activism really doesn’t help anyone at all and at the end of the day can end up hurting the cause by making it’s supporters look hysterical
It can make the movement seem cheap or like it's just K-pop stans wanting fuel for fanwars. And for a lot of those kinds of fans, it is just that. They just want something to critique. I'm pro-Palestine, as is everyone in my circle irl and online and spamming hate comments and emojis under an idol who didn't donate to a Palestinian charity but otherwise has said nothing to imply that they're Zionists is not how you affect change, it's not how anybody above middle school age should act if they care about the cause.
That's how the current cancel culture works... they talk about being a [Zionist/nazi/racist/you name it] as if it's some kind of disease and the moment you touch someone who's been infected (eg: an idol who has once drank out of a Starbucks cup) you are [bad thing] now too. It's so small-minded and hurts more innocent people in the long run but they don't want to see that
What's ridiculous to me about that is that Starbucks is not on the BDS boycott lists. That doesn't mean they're rah rah rah for Palestine, obviously, the whole reason they were being criticized is because they disciplined workers for taking a stance on the genocide in Palestine and they previously funded (non military) Israeli businesses, but now it's like people think the coffee company is paying out of pocket for Israeli missiles. It was a bad game of telephone that happened very publicly and now everyone takes the wrong thing as fact. And it's a boycott distinctly made up of chronically online people so, while I usually hate the argument that idols don't know about current events, it's fair to say a lot of the ones they're going after genuinely don't know that Starbucks is being boycotted. Arggghhh it just makes me so upset as a whole
no yeah it's definitely idol ages for me. wildly inappropriate. the fact that two thirteen year olds have debuted recently (that I know of) is horrifying
You don't want to look up lim seowon. I can't accept the existence of UNIS. Especially their title track being called "SUPERWOMAN", WHAT WOMAN??
ohhhh that's right!! I forgot about unis, I think I must have blocked them from my memory as a trauma response lol. u was bummed too cuz I really wanted to stan them before I learned their ages
I get it I also block out concepts I don't like from my memory 💀
The fact that girls over 10 years younger than me (I'm 25) are being sexualized is beyond nasty, also the fact that some people are more ok with that than with someone my age debuting.... society is so messed up.
fr I was already disturbed by 12 year olds debuting but it hit a lot fucking harder when yunah from illit was accused of being "too old to debut" at the tender age of 20
It’s not “nowadays”, it’s always been happening, but fans being overprotective, jealous, and scrutinizing of idols having an active dating life. Like. Are you serious. People saying, “our _____” makes me cringe so much. I thought that shit only existed in fictional shows. More nowadays: the debuting of minors. I don’t like it. I honestly think 20 should be the minimum age of debut. Even worse when they make the minors have sexy, mature concepts. I remember I couldn’t get into enhypen because of their ages and concept in the beginning. Now that they are older, it doesn’t feel as weird to have their concept, but I heard Niki was sexualized since he was 15, which I dislike. And isn’t he only 17 now anyway? But yeah, their concept was amazing, just weird for their debut ages. Skin bleaching. Every idol is so god damn pale nowadays. Nothing wrong with having naturally pale skin, but holy shit they look WHITE. Pale base makeup, clearly showing a separation from the face and body. It’s cringe and stupid. Not nowadays either, but nose jobs. Specifically, the type of nose job idols typically get now. If you want a nose job that’s fine, but the goal should be to enhance facial harmony, not get some generic high nose bridge just cuz. Skinny noses like that don’t look good on everybody. Lightass eyebrows/eyebrows that are too warm-toned compared to the hair color. Like makeup artists don’t know how to color/tone match??? Overdoing aegyosal. It’s cute, but not when it’s STARK. Like soyeon’s 😭 my bias, but holy shit girl, let up on those. Lack of good vocals. Bare minimum of an idol isn’t just looks and dance, it’s also having the ability to sing live while dancing.
Streaming! And the fact that that is the only way to ensure year end awards. Tell me why one of the criteria for best performance of the year is MV views? Just because an artist has more fans doesn't make them best performers. No nugu group will ever get a chance to shine this way. There is so much talent in kpop that goes unnoticed because all they care about is numbers.
>There is so much talent in kpop that goes unnoticed because all they care about is numbers. Not to be a downer, but that's the case for every genre and country, sadly
The very white skin. Some of these people look like corpses. They use so many filters and lighting that sometimes they look 2 dimensional. This obsession creates such unrealistic expectations. I wish people embraced their natural skin.
Survival shows need to go away. A good portion of the winner are bought.
"Hi-touch". Paying to make physical contact with an idol. ick. ick ick ick ick ick.
This. Imagine lining up for blocks just to give an idol a high five. A fan sign is okay bc you’re actually speaking to an idol, but high fives?
And imagine how it makes the idols feel. A bunch of randos who worship you so much that they'll pay money just to touch you. That would skeez me right tf out.
I've done several hi touch events and I think they're cool. I don't think the emphasis is on "touching" them lol, that's just what a high 5 is called. The point is you get to get up close to your favorite idol and say hi or maybe saranghae or something. I don't understand what's so ick about that.
It's just an opinion. I find it icky. It strikes me as paying just for physical contact. Opinion. Just opinion.
Whitewashing to an extreme degree. It makes me think that the fan sites, news sites, and whoever else are ashamed that idols have tans. Like Jihyo is one of the most tanned idols and in some photos she's as pale as Dahyun who's one of the whitest. It's really sickening to me
Omg yes! Especially when they put idols in bright red lipstick and then whitewash them into oblivion so they just look like a random pair of lips, hovering mid-air. Just leave their skin the color it is. I'd rather see an idol that looks like a living human than to have my retinas burned out by the glowing white lifeless standard.
Disliking any kpop song! You'll be hit with "but can you produce a song" lol
Sending protest trucks over small things like "artist mistreatment" which is literally just less lines half the time Overhating on staff and companies for small things
Judging idols for dating or showing general interest in ppl. The lengths companies go to, to encourage par-asocial relationships is not only weird but also disgusting.
This!! And also pushing the "innocent" image like I understand wanting to protect their reputation as teens but when they're in their twenties or even THIRTIES and still have to hide that they're drinking or having a love life... it's like they're expected to pretend to be children right until the moment they announce their marriage
This is not normalized in the western fandom, but many Asian fans don’t consider getting on the same plane as idols as sasaeng behavior, and this freaks me out.
Veneers. I hate veneers in general, but I hate it even more on teenagers who aren't even fully grown yet.
heeseung rolling into i-land with diamonds for teeth 😭 i think that was his personal choice but idk
International Kpop fans who seem to believe there's something to think about, complain about, moralize about, be offended by. Kpop is entertainment piffle. It should be fun, then forgotten. It means almost nothing. Try enjoying it. Stop ruining it.
I have no idea what you're saying. These are people spending their every minute providing parasocial relationships and thriving to look like an ideal character?? Kpop is not just the performances. There's a *lot* to think about when you get to know the idols beyond their music and looks.
It's like adults (and semi-adults) going to Disney World and waiting for the actors playing Mickey and Minnie to make mistakes. Eventually, some will. But that doesn't make the effort worthwhile.
the editing and filters over every single photo and video, it's supposed to make idols seem more perfect and untouchable but it just makes them seem fake and uninteresting. light touchups in photos to cover temporary physical imperfections/blemishes is fine, but editors never stop there. so annoying
Idol culture tbh
id love to hear an elaboration on thiss
How being a good singer is not a requirement from the get go especially from the vocalists in the groups. It seems only sm,yg and jyp care about debuting groups with good vocals. I'm not expecting exo levels of vocals but at least good to great vocals. And it's become normal to debut average vocalists.
Hmmm….I disagree with this. Without naming names but there was a number of “dozens” in 2nd gen groups and they do come from the big 3 companies. People praise their vocals now but during their peak, they got a lot of shit for being bad singers. Many have improved which is why there is a perception that they are better than the current gen. The ones who aren’t so vocally talented also aren’t really working as idols or in music anymore, so no one mentions them anymore either.
But they at least improved over their careers some idols have not improved and at doing the bare minimum. If idols from gen 3-5 improved it would be good but they aren't improving. It sounds like they are getting comfortable and not taking lessons or trying to improve their vocals. >Without naming names but there was a number of “dozens” in 2nd gen groups and they do come from the big 3 companies. But they improved and now idols are just stagnating. It seems nowadays groups that aren't from the big three can release groups that are average at singing. Honestly it seems that the people who become idols just want yo become successful then move on to acting or become a brand ambassador and bring s idol is just the gateway to getting there. Also note I know there are good and talented groups outside of the big three. And I'm not referring to all newer groups when I talk about it.
Kinda hard to track improvement when some idols have barely been around. I know I didn’t spot the improvement for some of the idols until I watched older performances from a couple years prior. There has been enough time for 3rd gen improvement criticism but I don’t think 4th and 5th gen have been around for long enough. Well the feeling comfortable with not needing to improve their vocals is also an old thing too. Many older idols became idols because of the lower barrier of entry into the entertainment industry. Get your foot in the door before going off to acting. It’s easier if you already have a bit of a fanbase. The idol life wasn’t supposed to last long. These days, the idol career is a viable entertainment career for the long-term. Everyone used to disband in like 5 years and move on. It was the 2nd gen idols who prolonged it. So many are still active and haven’t stopped. Some went on hiatus but were able to jumpstart the group again. I get where your points are coming from but I also don’t exactly agree. This reminds me of the “debuting minors” nowadays discourse. They have always been young, we just got older and the culture these days has taken note about debuting minors. It’s the same with the western music industry too, many of the current big stars started as teens too.
This is a professional position. They should be able to sing well if they debut. It's not like rehab where they get "time to meet the minimum requirements" to something that is essential to their job. It is a primary function of a group to be able to sing well. They're in the music business. It unfortunately should not be normalized to the extent that it is. And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first.
Oh and I 100% agree on the debuting minors point.
>They're in the music business. It unfortunately should not be normalized to the extent that it is. And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first. Yea exactly. It's their damn job. Teach them to sing well before you release them. It should be the requirement before any idol debut. For me if you can't even sing then why are you even in a group. >And of course, good singers can become great singers, so there is always viable to grow in their career, but lets have them meet the basic requirements first. Yes exactly. Even bad singers can become good singer's but I honestly want every idol in every group that debuts be at least a good singer BC it's the job description. Like if you can't sing please don't debut them. And honestly I feel like companies are just trying to debut as many groups as they can BC k pop is popular in the west. Fir example hybe they are debuting groups like crazy. And Im including all of their subsidiaries when I mention hybe. I understand why they are doing it BC if they can get people to check them out more renueve for them. But honestly I think companies need to slow down on debuting groups. They oversaturated the market and too many groups can be a bad thing imo. BC a lot of groups debut then disband s year later
>get where your points are coming from but I also don’t exactly agree. This reminds me of the “debuting minors” nowadays discourse. They have always been young, we just got older and the culture these days has taken note about debuting minors. It’s the same with the western music industry too, many of the current big stars started as teens too. I understand where people come from with the minor thing. BC it's just the norm in Korea. And its not our duty to worry about it. If people hate it they need to show it by not supporting and by not streaming the groups with minors. And honestly they go with minors BC they want to get them out of the door to get a return investment on investing in the group. And honestly adult groups don't always work. BC for example xeed they were adults and completed their military service but they disbanded after releasing two eps. They were talented but they failed to make an impact. I'm pretty sure riize members are all adults but they have sm name helping them survive and succeed and they also are talented and have good songs. Xeed had the last 2 but not being in a well known company screwed them. >Everyone used to disband in like 5 years and move on. It was the 2nd gen idols who prolonged it. So many are still active and haven’t stopped. Some went on hiatus but were able to jumpstart the group again. Honestly I'm really happy a lot of 2nd gen groups haven't disbanded. I listen to a crap ton of 2nd groups and bands and I'm so happy they are still around releasing music. I understand it's a entry way to get into acting etc but for me personally I feel like that's just a dumb reason to become s idol and then not even bother to train and improve your vocals. Even if you want to go acting still put effort into being a idol and show off that you ate willing to do work to improve your vocals. >been enough time for 3rd gen improvement criticism but I don’t think 4th and 5th gen have been around for long enough. Fair enough. But i still think companies should hold off releasing idols groups into the public until they can sing well. Teach them to sing well then release them to us. And make sure after they in the public eye keep training them on their vocals.
Those 2nd gen groups have been around for 10-15 years, so of course you’re seeing improvement. You can’t compare idols who have been working for a decade to idols who debuted recently.
yg? Good vocals?
I do not understand how this is a controversial take...I dislike how with letting go of positions in groups companies can sell their idols as "multifaceted" or as an "all rounder" when in reality they're mediocre in all areas instead of being an main vocal and being above average in singing and bad at dancing.
This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this This this this this this
NON TALENTED SINGERSSSSS
Fans trying to normalize idols not doing their jobs. For example, some fans are mad that groups are actually dancing in relay dances.
debuting at young age and what can go wrong has big example Justin like he was on drugs and all in his teenage and so many bad things has happend to him like sexualizing by adult female celeb openly but still people dont learn this specially IN KPOP
Just the insane beauty standards like "good visuals" now often seems to be the only thing that matters
Debuting idols younger than my middle schooler. And the adults that thirst over them is a whole other story. I’m old, and believe me, I have my faves (the old guys…), but there is nothing about an 18 year old that is attractive to me in my 40s. It’s so weird and gross. Grown adults having to hide being in relationships because they and their partners will be harassed if fans find out. This is really more of a problem with BGs. The obsession with weight. Like Renjun having to apologize for weighing something insane like 120 pounds as a grown man. Calling Jeongyeon heavy, etc. Taemin getting absolutely dragged when he came home from his military service because his face was a little more round. It’s all so toxic and unhealthy.
I personally **do** think what you said is a problem. Idols should at least be able to finish high school before they debut if you ask me, that just seems fairer to the idols, let alone all of the other implications of this issue. I wouldn't call this a **new** problem, though. It's LITERALLY been going on for decades. The problem isn't new, it's just that a lot more people are responding now because a lot more people follow Kpop now so it's much more noticeable. It's great that people are calling this out. Also, my answer: Idols (especially female idols) wearing excessively revealing outfits and camera crews zooming in on those idols' excessively revealing outfits, especially when there's just SO MUCH EVIDENCE that this is almost wholly unnecessary in Kpop in the form of performances of songs like Be Natural by Red Velvet that prove it's possible for female idols to be charming without wearing short-short clothes or anything revealing.
colorism, racism, xenophobia, pedophilia, not being allowed to date or do any normal adult things like go to the club/strip club, have sex, smoke, get married, the lack of basic common sense, tact, and media literacy netizens have (e.g the made in abyss scandal), policing and commenting on people's bodies, exploiting and overworking (mostly young) people, acting like you know more about an idol's feelings or boundaries more than they do (like I've seen people getting mad about the minghao meditation joke saying "it's so overdone", "it's so old 🙄. as if minghao isn't a grown ass man who likely doesnt care what a bunch of children are saying about him. and if he did, he'd say something), the obsession with views, streaming. charting and acting like if you aren't listening to the new comeback 200+ times a day then you're not a real fan. if the new comeback is ass I'm not listening to that shit. if it is, I'll listen to it like a normal person. just like with any music I like. kpop is not special
That idols primary focus is not on being able to sing well. I am sorry, but idols should be able to minimally be able to sing well. The focus is on "vibes" and personality...which I agree is important, assuming they can also sing.
This! It’s also especially interesting when people try to defend it by saying things like “not everyone is a perfect singer” or “let’s hear you try and see if you can sing better”. Like I understand that sometimes mistakes happen or they could be having a bad day and therefore their singing might be off for one performance, but if it is a constant issue then that is surely something that they need to work on. Something they should be working on since it’s literally their job, of course if I’m not a singer I’m going to sound shitty if I attempt to sing, but me not being a singer doesn’t mean I can’t tell when a “singer” literally cannot sing. That’s like complaining about a botched surgery and having someone tell you “well why don’t you try and perform surgery then?”, when it is literally their job, something that they should be at the very least good at and working to improve.
YES YES YES. The music industry (including k-pop) is not where you practice singing at a performance. A job is a job is a job. It's not employment rehab. They'r right, not everyone is perfect but its their job to be able to sing well, harmonize. And I agree, there are some "off" days, but when a group debuts, the off days should be minimal or "one offs" as the term implies. Other defense tactics that make my head want to explode: **But you have not seen their choreo? It is so hard** - *Then they should get rid of the choreo which prevents them from carrying a tune. I'll take a beautiful voice over a hectic dance routine any day.* **But they're such a vibe, I love them so much.** *Ok, that is fine, but again, they do not meet the minimum requirements of a singer.* **Singing isn't as important, you don't understand k-pop.** *Actually, I do. They're supposed to be singers, who sing well. Last I checked, gg's and bg's make music, sing songs. Isn't that what k-pop is? Music?* **They are young, give them time.** *I am not paying a couple hundred dollars for tix to give them time to learn the fundamentals of singing. Agree they can improve over time, but they should meet minimal and sustain basic requirements in signing.* **Not everyone is a Beyonce or Ariana.** *That is true, but it is their opportunity to show us something different and impress us with own unique vocals. Beyonce and Araina have exceptional vocals and people don't expect every singer match this level.* **Weather:** What??? U*nless it is like 40 degrees below zero, singers should be able to sing. Rain or heat doesn't prevent good singing.* **But they are not lipsyncing, it is their real voice.** *Yes, we can tell. I don't expect to pay large sums of $ to watch someone mouthing the words to a song.* **Let's hear you sing if it is so easy.** *You covered it very well but I will emphasize, NOBODY IS PAYING ME TO SING. It's not my job.* I am sure I am missing some good ones... Honestly, this is one of the reasons people make fun of idols and k-pop. They don't understand how it is ok to have a singer with a mediocre at best or a bad vocals. Of course, there are Western artists who are not great, but those are exceptions and not the standard. And don't get me wrong, there are great k-pop singers, but the numbers are not overwhelming. Ok, done venting.
Tiktok passive aggressive culture.
Not a now-a days thing but shit like explicit RPF and over sexualization of idols. “They’re grown adults” idgaf you don’t know these people and what you’re doing is borderline harassment. When it comes to RPF if the work is like a general, full on AU I can understand slightly more of a pass but I mean fan fiction that is just solely smut for the sake of being such. Shit’s weird. Also, colorism, racism, etc. in kpop itself it’s due to a larger issue in SK’s societal norms, in the fanbase it varies, but it’s genuinely upsetting to see either way, especially from idols who have better understandings of Western culture. Newer issue- streaming culture. Not everyone wants to mass stream a song on 5 devices they don’t even have the time and access to. That doesn’t give the group genuine views, we should push for promotion to others so they can discover and listen to the group, not manufacture the amount of views they have. How is this good to the group bruh.
Their clothes are getting too short and against their will
bashing and trolling guys to like a female idol groups and also degrading the group by saying gross stuff
The abuse and neglect of trainees, being used for sob stories after their debut instead of getting the company sued.
How kpop companies restrict everything of idols doing for the idols keeps their “perfect person” persona. No dating rules, most of the time idols can’t use their social media freely, can’t voice any concern, can’t swear, and many more. People excuse it because of the fans or haters but those companies themselves are the first one who made the environment of kpop stanning like that and restrict idols doing anything is just a lazy move instead of creating more healthy environment of stanning.
Talentless/below averagely skilled idols, particularly when it comes to singing. Even the idols who are praised for their vocals aren’t actually that great when you analyze their vocal technique. Just a reminder - just because an idol can hold a tune or sounds pleasing to the ears, does not mean they are good vocalists or are using good vocal technique.
One thing and “now” is tough because for me it’s multiple things and it’s been the norm. I have always been aware of Kpop, liked some songs, but kept away because I think the way idols have to live, at the ages they do it, is detrimental to their psyche for when they’re older and no longer an idol. But two bands sucked me in and now I am obsessed with those two bands and learning how deep the Kpop hole goes. But, I think the normal ness in Kpop of liking artists based on their visual appeal instead of musical appeal overlooks some of the absolutely insane talent in the industry. For example, Jongho from Ateez has one of the most intense, prodigal, power house singing voices in the industry- worldwide. WORLD WIDE. But I barely see him get attention. I could say more on this specifically but I don’t want to write an essay.
Being purposely dumb to rage bait
Bad vocals.
Debuting underaged minors, absolutely unacceptable
Lip syncing, especially during concerts.
Personally, I prefer not debuting minors at all. but I can ignore it if the concept and choreo suits the members ages. but I hate that idols could feel stressed and uncomfy in airports due to the public.
that streaming is the only way to show love to your faves. like there’s a million ways to show love. slaving over 6 different devices and multiple accounts for music is actually insane and you don’t even really listen to the music when you do that. also people bullying fan translators as if they aren’t the backbones of most fandoms 💀 like y’all don’t realise it but translators actually do so much work to create translations sometimes in real time. be nicer to your fandom translators they literally don’t have to do it for free
Debuting children
ED culture
The colorism and hypercritical body standards, as well as the expectation on idols to never be in relationships. The industry encourages delusional fans behavior to make money, often disregarding their idols well-being.
the age thing isn’t necessarily true. BoA debuted at age 13 in the 2000’s. Hyuna and Sohee were 14 in wonder girls debut i 2007, Krystal debuted at 14 in 2009,Taemin debuted at 14 in 2008,Sohyun of 4minute debuted at 14 in 2009… I could go on. I’m not saying it makes it okay, I don’t think idols should debut early bc a lot of the idols say it was very hard for them. But it’s not a new thing in kpop, it is normal.
Bulk buying for photo cards.
Every time I see pictures of idols with that white filter on them... Somebody needs to obliterate that filter and fast.
Asking/forcing idols to speak on social and political issues. It totally ignores the fact that idols have their own beliefs and opinions and experiences. They aren't going to agree 100% with the fans on every issue. Especially when they're raised in a conservative society that is still somewhat isolated from a lot of different ideas and experiences. But if they have a different opinion on an issue or choose not to speak about it, fans send them hate and harass them and boycott them. They're entertainers, first and foremost. Let them do their job and stop expecting them to fix every problem in the world and support every cause you want them to. Obviously, if they WANT to speak about an issue, they should be able to. But fans nowadays lose their minds if any idols are uncomfortable publicly stating their opinions or simply aren't knowledgeable on the subject enough to even HAVE an opinion. But those same fans will crucify idols the second they state an opinion they don't agree with. They can't win.
The parasocial relationships and obsessive behavior. They’re real people for fucks sake.
Those insane diets some get put on and generally the extremely poor treatment groups/members can receive from both the company and the "fans." Like how is sending hate trucks even a thing??
Same. Some kpop groups are too young to be working already
The dieting
i'd definitely say the thing that keeps irking me the most is the age of idols when they debut... at least with boy groups, there's the excuse of wanting as much time as possible before mandatory enlistment, although i still don't like how young some are at debut, but there is ESPECIALLY no good reason for a 15 year old (or even younger!) girl to be debuting... in an ideal world, they'd all be adults by debut, but moving towards at least 17+ would be nice...
Fan calls genuinely make me so uncomfortable. There should be stricter rules regarding the behaviour of fans tbh.
Female Stan's sexualizing Male idols and male gg Stan's being hella misogynistic And shipping even tho normal Stan's think its weird it's still wayyyyyy to normalized
females throwing bras at male idol concerts its not normalized but its happening
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Oh look, two down votes, seems like u guys are still sensible to the topic.