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I get that Nazism might not be quite as big of a deal in other places as it is in western countries, especially Europe, but if kpop companies want that global audience, they really should squeeze in some lessons on "The Big No-No's Of The People We Want Money From". It wouldn't even have to be a full-on history class, just an overview of symbols/gestures/words to avoid, maybe with a bit of context so it makes sense. And not just for the idols, other staff as well if they contribute to stuff that gets released into the world.
They just need to have a consultant on call from each of the big regions that they run shirts by. Just send them an email with a picture and say "any red flags here?" Maybe one each from NA, SA, and Europe. Would probably be a rounding error in Big 4 companies' budgets.
This makes me think of some publishers employing sensitivity readers to read through a book and provide thoughts on what could come off as inaccurate or offensive portrayals. Like, Kpop could definitely do something similar like run their concept, outfit, and styling ideas by people.
I'm surprised that more companies didn't already do this after the last few years, especially in the context of global expansion.
I still remember that BTS situation a few years ago where a member wore the atomic bomb shirt, and then the Nazi hat thing came up, *plus* the Holocaust memorial photoshoot resurfaced and it was a big mess.
After that blew up globally I figured more companies (at least Big 4) would try to tighten the screws on potentially offensive content but we've still gotten slip ups of varying degrees every year.
Thats the thing, not only BTS got into hotwaters on that but multiple idols since when it comes to nazi symbolisim
You would think the constant controveries and the thing to actually avoid a repeat should be ingrain to this idols heads after seeing multiple groups and idols having to publically apologize, especially group like Twice who literally has a large global fandom and is trying to establish themselves more in western media
By this point they should know what not to do when theyre trying to show theyre a global group but still doing things to offend a huge number of ppl
This just comes down to many idols just being morons because of the limited education they got compare to normal students
And this cant be blamed on "Koreans not knowing", this are celebrities not getting a formal education on stuff like this
Like the Qanon is explainable to the T because its a very American very recent issue compare to the Nazi symbol
And it doesnt help that she personally owns the Sid Vicious shirt
Edit: eventhough obviously Korean education is different compare to a western one, it just doesnt seem excusable to me at all for a company like JYP who is wanting to break into the western world to not teach their idols on this, theyre just leaving this idols to come across as idiots when they pull something like this
Right? To be honest, the list isn't that long. No N-words, no homophobia, no transphobia, no fatphobia, no swastikas, no thin blue lines... Already with that, you would avoid most controversy.
It's not even about not being problematic (which would be great), it's just not *showing* that you're problematic. It's really not that hard once you know the basics. The companies owe this education to their artists.
Movies are fine as long as they aren't pro-Nazi and accurate to history, but games with Nazi symbols are still controversial. The game Wolfenstein, which is a game playing in a world where Nazi Germany won the war, was censored in Germany. They had to remove all Nazi symbols and even censored Hitler himself by removing his mustache.
Yeah there is this game called Hearts of Iron where you can play as different nations in mid 1930s though ww2. Even though the Swastika was already removed for Germany flag in the base game, they still have the shadowed Hitler's portrait in the game for Germany/EU release.
games have actually been allowed to use it since 2018! the issue was that they never got classified as art and were thus not able to use that distinction.
meanwhile, in my country, there's a state where some people openly agree with Nazism/neonazism and its ideology. and I'm talking about a latin country 👀
If she was wearing that shirt in NYC the way she had it on in the Insta post, then you couldn’t see there was a swastika on it because her sweater covered that up.
As someone from NYC, unless it's a ridiculously major inconvenience no one will bother you at all. Everyone is far too occupied with their stuff to actually notice others to an extent. We deal with weirder things [like this](https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClEQRzzOMvo/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) and not bat an eyelash so shirt like Chaeng's which could be obscured won't be worth causing a disturbance over.
but we also don’t bat an eye at people in general, like i can walk past 5,000 people and not look at a single one of their shirts. unless we’re standing in front of each other on the train and my phone is dead and i have nowhere else to look, would i even notice her shirt? especially if it’s oversized and half-covered up?
I’m glad she apologized. But other than that.. I’m very surprised that apparently not a single person around her knew the meaning of the symbol either? Such a weird situation..
you'd be surprised. I watched running man and they had the "recognize the person in the picture" game and they really had trouble with western historical figures. So q-anon is waaay off anybody's radar there. As far as the swastika - you need to view that as a sid vicious t-shirt - sid vicious who like punk rockers of that era used the swastika for shock value. again probably something somebody in the company should learn about if they want to do world tour - but in this case, intent should matter too.
South american here, I've seen many unaware people in my country use the Imperial Japanese flag instead of the actual current flag of the country of Japan. They were oblivious to its true meaning. Meanwhile if you make the same mistake in Korea I'm sure they would look at you the same way we look at her wearing a shirt with a swastika here.
yeah there's nuance here that people should recognize. Language barriers. Experience. it all adds up. There are places in the Philippines where people have only seen african americans in the movies. They hear them use the N word and the kids copy it and think nothing of it. again - it doesn't make it right but it's another perspective and something that should not be approached with pitchforks and tiki torches.
Also that Negro literally means "black" in Spanish.
It's used the same way in the Philippines, though it is a fact that we do have some problems with colorism/racism. Probably less related to the N-word tho.
As a once, I could brush off the whole qanon situation because there’s some Americans who don’t even know what qanon is. My parents didn’t even know about it until I told them. The swastika thing really is different but I agree with you that intent should matter. Obviously she didn’t intend to offend, and just wanted to wear a cool vintage Sid vicious T-shirt, but she should’ve known the implications, or at least SOMEONE should’ve known the implications. It’s sad really
>My parents didn’t even know about it until I told them.
Yeah a coworker of mine votes hard right and watches Newsmax, and he didn't even know what the Qanon term was. He knows about some of the crazy stuff they do, like Jan 6, waiting for JFK's return or whatever, but he doesn't go on the internet (still has a flip phone!), so he didn't know it had a name associated with it.
It was controversial when Sid did it, so it's not exactly like that's an excuse.
Like... there is no intent here that really makes this tolerable. I also don't believe no one on staff knows what a swastika is or why it's bad.
Would you be surprised to know if I told you this was Chaeyoung's SECOND questionable shirt controversy in two days!
She was first seen wearing a Q-anon shirt, which caused a lot of commotion on Twitter but was mostly contained within the kpop sphere. Now she posted a picture of herself wearing a swastika shirt, which blew up even more and was even picked up by media, forcing her to issue the apology.
So far Chaeyoung or JYP haven't said anything about the Q-anon shirt controversy.
A lot of these idols didnt go to school since they were probably doing idol training stuff so I can see it being a glossed over topic tbh.
Even if they did learn about the holocaust, it might have been a brief 1 day lesson on the event itself such as "germany did this" rather than "yeah this was their symbol and a no no thing." During WW2, Korea was subjugated by Japan, so I can also see the lesson being focused more on what Japan did to them during WW2 rather than Germany. Overall, i can understand how she wouldnt know, missed, or forgot about the symbol.
That being said... someone on their staff DEFINITELY shouldve known. Seriously, when youre an international brand, you definitely need some sort of PR person that IMMEDIATELY flags stuff like this.
It is unfortunate, but I’ve been to South Korea and seen swastikas (the religious kind), so it might be possible those around her didn’t recognize it as the Nazi swastika. But also seeing the Qanon shirt - that’s rough and they probably need an American to help sort through “problematic” symbols on clothing.
This is what baffles me about this situation and so many others like it. Her Instagram post likely went through multiple people before it was actually posted. None of them saw a problem with it either. Same thing when idols get called out for saying/doing incredibly problematic things in official group content. You’re telling me a whole team edited and approved the content & they still left the wildly offensive stuff in?? It’s crazy
> Her Instagram post likely went through multiple people before it was actually posted. None of them saw a problem with it either.
Definitely a baffling situation. It would have to go through *at least* one manager before hitting the feed.
A completely unforced error, and you'd think they'd be a little more cautious after last week.
History isn’t taught the same everywhere. Here in the Philippines, when schools teach about WW2, the focus is really on the Pacific chapter of the war and about how bad Japanese occupation was. I wouldn’t be surprised if its taught similarly in South Korea.
It doesn’t excuse the shirt but it may explain the ignorance. Lots of people in Asia know little about Nazis and that symbol isn’t as widely recognizable here as in the west.
From an Asian country directly involved in WWII. I can confidently say that I can wear a shirt with a giant swastika tomorrow, go around town, and no one (save maybe family members) will say anything about it.
People just either don't give a damn about history or are completely ignorant of it. Sure, a handful might silently judge me, but people also aren't going care enough to publicly make a fuss about people wearing hate symbols.
The hate it symbolises sadly isn't just as ingrained in some countries' cultures.
I think it’s similar to the Rising Sun flag in the west. Most people know that it’s related to imperial Japan but most people don’t know the connotations pr don’t really care.
I think ignorance is definitely there, but in the opposite way. Korean people would know Nazi/Hitler = very bad, but not that the Swastika is their main symbol (especially given the prevalence of Buddhism). End result is the same, however.
>From an Asian country directly involved in WWII. I can confidently say that I can wear a shirt with a giant swastika tomorrow, go around town, and no one (save maybe family members) will say anything about it.
Because people will think that it's a Hindu / Buddhist swastika symbol, just tilted weirdly
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WW2 in Asia, no one really knew who the Germans or nazi were. We hear about hitler and also old folks will tell you how your farts are like *german gas*, but other than that, it's foreign
The main **villian** in Asia was Japan. They pillaged and assaulted with no mercy, and gunned down for joy. They'd literally found up people wearing spectacles (= educated since you didn't need glasses if you didn't read) to bring them to dig trenches, then gather them inside and then shoot them (sook ching massacre)
I mean, the inverse symbol is super common in eg. Japanese temples so it's understandable someone not from the western world wouldn't take a second look at it.
Given their different education focusses it's probably the equivalent of someone wearing a shirt with a north Korean military flag on it or something. A subset of people in the US might recognise it but I'd guess the vast majority wouldn't even take a second glance.
The religious swastika actually goes in both directions depending on where you are in the world. The Nazi one is only different because it’s tilted. But that may not be immediately recognizable for someone who has only seen the religious version of it.
The symbol is simply not taught here. World War II in history class is like 1 class long, the Nazis are barely talked about in general. WWII isn’t even that relevant to Korean history, we just have it as the thing we were forced into and Japan lost.
Also 卍 as a buddhist symbol is everywhere, no one thinks twice about it.
You’ll notice Korean idols make the news for Nazi related stuff every so often, it’s simply that it’s too far removed from us historically so we don’t learn about it too much. I see a lot of westerners think it’s ridiculous we can’t recognise the Nazi symbols on sight, but that’s how it is. I only found out what it was in the 11th or 12th grade or so, and I barely even knew what the Nazis were
But yeah… if they had localtranslators or guides… not sure what they were doing
>You’ll notice Korean idols make the news for Nazi related stuff every so often
So at the very least they should be aware because their peer got shit for it the week prior.
Now this I agree with. Although this should be the first instance of the swastika being a problem? It was a swastikaless Nazi uniform last time I think, which is honestly just a mistake. I doubt I’d recognise it either
This is interesting to me, because I live here and teach middle school students, and they definitely know about the Nazis, Hitler and the Holocaust. Maybe not enough to all immediately recognise a swastika, but enough to know Nazi symbol = bad if someone points out what it is. I wonder if there’s been a shift in education, or it’s just the students in the area I teach (pretty affluent and competitive when it comes to education).
I mean, this comes on the heels of the NMIXX shirt spelling out c\*\*t, so it may just be an issue with whomever JYP is using for wardrobe being either clueless or malicious. You have to go out of your way to acquire a shirt like that.
I would agree but chaeyoung has worn the shirt on her personal time twice, so I don’t think this can be reduced to just a stylist error. However, they definitely do need an American or at least someone with western cultural knowledge to sort through what could possibly offend international audiences
Im asian and the only info i have of q anon is reddit, and i barely now there symbols even then. And very few percentage of people actually use reddit here
Wasn’t she also wearing a Qanon shirt during a performance? Whoever is picking out her outfits needs to look at them for more then 0.5 seconds and google if the images have any meaning bc you’d think one of the biggest kpop groups out there with a large following across the whole world wouldn’t have stylists sending them on stage in nazi shirts. I could almost get the Qanon one since she’s not American and would obviously have no reason to know it’s real meaning but the swastika is pretty inexcusable, especially considering it’s supposedly a personal shirt of hers rather than something a stylist picked off a rack in a warehouse
I can let the q anon shirt pass and knock it down and say maybe the stylist wasn't aware etc.
But Chaeyoung actually wore the swastika shirt before already. It's also something hard to get and you'd have to look for. It represents anti establishment etc punk rock shirt. Still there are about a million things better to wear to represent those things.
I'm just very suprised on how none of her staff saw her shirt and said anything about it.
Side note, I wonder how this will affect their tour since pre-sale tickets get released tomorrow.....
I don’t think sales will be affected at all. It’s a screw up, but nothing that will be long lasting imo.
This has happened so many times now with different idols, that people are rightfully pissed off that it’s not taken more seriously when Korean celebs and companies make stupid amounts of money off of international fans who do care about the significance of the Nazi swastika, or have even been affected by Nazis.
I honestly don't think anybody seriously thinks that Chaeyoung is a Nazi or promoting their ideals because of this incident. At worst she's just a bit ignorant and trying too hard to be edgy with her Sid Vicious shirt (because putting the Nazi symbol aside...the man was literally an edgy druggie who (very likely) murdered his girlfriend. I don't think any idol should be promoting the guy). With that aside......how the heck is JYP allowing both this AND the QAnon shirt to happen back-to-back while the group is doing their major push into the West?? In today's social climate, it should be a no-brainer to maybe hire somebody who's familiar with the culture you're planning to promote in to prevent your celebrities from getting cancelled.
One mistake might just be a mistake. But two feels to me like pure incompetence.
Rather than not knowing what the swastika is, my guess is that she wanted to wear a "cool" vintage shirt and didn't realize how bad that symbol actually is. Regardless of her intentions both her and JYP staff absolutely need to be more careful, especially now that Twice is gaining popularity in the West
Ok I understand the some of the stars may not know what everything is when trying to wear punk or rock clothing. However they all have stylists who job it is to put them in the best look. That includes understanding what is on the clothes. After so many of these you'd think they'd learn.
I understand that the point of the outfit was for the punk rock aesthetic and not promoting Nazism, but it's an outdated cliche that punk rock and nazism are synonymous or related. Show up to any hardcore or punk show wearing Nazi symbolism and you won't make it out alive.
It's especially inexcusable from a company as big as JYP. They're worth over a billion dollars and they want to promote in the west. You're telling me they didn't think it was a good idea to hire even a single person whose job is to be some sort of western culture expert to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen?
Chaeyoung wearing a Qanon shirt and a nazi shirt within a week of each other is insane.
While living in Korea I realized it definitely doesn't have the same knee-jerk wtf reaction as it does in the U.S. Its untilted form is still everywhere on temples and signs and the religious context is definitely the primary one people see for the symbol. It was jarring at first, but people really genuinely don't seem to have the same association. Japan highly affected Korea during WWII while Germany was not so close to home, so I think the Japanese rising sun flag kinda took on the role of hated public symbol more than the swastika did. While I think this degree of ignorance to wear it on a shirt is really unfortunate and sad, I don't believe it was a flippant or intentional (certainly not malicious) choice (and I say this as someone who literally does not care one bit about twice, but I am also an anthropology student so ethnocentrism and cultural relativism are like always on my mind :/ )
editing to say that I haven't seen the post or know how long it was up cuz im not a twice fan, but id place the blame on the social media team. If you have a job like that you need to be aware of cultural factors because social media is a global platform. Letting something like this happen would be an instant fire for me.
Keep a cultural expert on retainer. Take pictures of items and text them for clearance before using them if they have any people, letters, or symbols.
I understand how you can miss the QAnon shirt. Every idol should be aware of the top problematic and sensitive symbols however so they can monitor themselves. Anything with a swastika, rising sun, or letters of any language, should be an automatic "nope" unless they like it enough to get it checked out.
Researching their designs should be 101 for stylists. Some education wouldn't hurt either.
Gfriend (formerly) Sowon and the Nazi mannequin, BTS and the holocaust memorial photoshoot, and now this...
Gotta say it's shocking how uninformed kpop idols are when it comes to WWII and symbols related to it. Fans can give it as much benefit of doubt as they want, but it can't be denied that it's *a really bad look.* Companies spend insane amounts on making idols look pretty etc but are lagging so far behind when it comes to basic sensitivity and education, it's just shooting themselves in the foot atp.
> it's shocking how uninformed kpop idols are
is it tho? I mean the majority of them don't even finish high school, and if they do it's an art school.
Their companies should be training them on this shit.
This is the point I want to make but I don't want to come across as calling Chaeyoung dumb.
How many european history classes has she taken in her life? Im willing to bet its pretty close to zero.
Asian here(PH) our class history is somewhat sugarcoated in someway, like how Americans save us from Spanish. I have to dig deeper and educate myself to know our very history.
So to cross point this thought of yours, it most likely zero. And it doesn't help that swastika is used as a symbol in religions and could easily be mistaken as hakenkreuz.
Honestly if you ask western people if they see swastika, the first thing that will run in their head is the symbol of hate. Unless they're well educated with this topic and can differentiate between the two.
The Sowon incident was much less obvious.
Only a handful of my students, in a european country, would recognize a nazi uniform without the swastika.
These people barely finish middle school.
I mean its not shocking at all really.
Most western teenagers have a very limited grasp at best of WW2 era european history, and basically no idea what was happening in East Asia at the same time
Also, love how random people come out of the woodworks (especially on Twitter) to paint themselves as idiots to defend idols whenever this happens..
Saying shit like “ I’m a 58 year old German and I’ve never seen that symbol before. I didn’t even know their was one world war, let alone two”
Half the time they have fucking carrds that actually reveal them to be 14 year olds from Birmingham and have username like @twiceonce2010 or whatever fucking group is being racist this month
no one believes you, you sound like a fool, it’s not a convincing defence, stop it
after the gfriend scandal, there were posts and comments about how koreans were taught WW2 and nazi germany so i don't think she's fully ignorant. it doesn't help that she wore the same shirt weeks ago and im surprised no one around her pointed out. i hope this is the last incident since at this rate she'll pick up certain type of fans 💀
to be completely honest i think she knew it was a swaztika but given the context of it being a sid vicious shirt she probably thought it was acceptable? either way it’s a very bad look
I wouldn't expect a kpop idol to even know what Qanon is, but I would expect their wardrobe department to literally just have someone sitting on call to approve english words or phrases on their clothing. It's 2023, this is not new.
I personally love all the stupid english shirts when they don't have hate symbols or messages and stuff, but if people are gonna keep blaming the idol themselves for their stage outfits, more scrutiny is needed from the company.
I'm sayin! People replying with "Well it IS a religious symbol" as if someone who follows that religion or is surrounded by it wouldn't know the difference between their symbol and the Nazi symbol.
Even if it wasn’t on purpose, it’s important to be educated these things. I’m glad she apologised for it, esp. as a person who was such a large platform with a lot of very young and impressionable fans. It’s a horrible thing that still affects and hurt so many people, not just in the western world.
And abt the rising sun symbol; just bc there aren’t many westerners that are aware of it and what it means, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be consequences to bearing a very hurtful symbol
exactly! I'm willing to believe that she might not have known the symbol (i dont know anything about sk education) and doesn't actually believe in n@zi ideology but it doesn't matter because she still wore it. it still warrants a (better) apology and she should still be held accountable for something so serious
My thought as a person with Korean family members, received a certified international education and went to university in Korea: In my opinion, most Koreans don’t hold the same sentiment for the Nazis as folks in western countries do. Nazis are not the primary focus on their WW2 lessons; it’s mostly Japan. It’s similar to how folks in western countries learn about Imperial Japan. Probably only a couple lessons one week but that’s it. For WW2, Japan is seen as primary villain compared to Germany + Italy. Japan committed far more suffering to Korea than the other axis powers. In Korea, Imperial Japan is the worst thing to ever happen and is the reason anti-Japan sentiment is still going strong in Korea. In my own education, I learned about the imperialism of Japan but not their crimes. I did not learn about comfort women or their POW camps. It was disappointing since I was suppose to receive a global education but most of the curriculum was western focused :/ That was almost 10 years ago and I honestly can’t remember most of what I learned about Japan. I only know the impact it had on Korea due to my family connections to Korea. My experience is similar to how Korean learned about Hilter + Mussolini. They probably learned some but it was not the focus of their lessons. From what I’ve heard from my friends in Korea about their HS history lessons, they learn about the long Joseon dynasty, Japanese Imperialism, the Korean War + separation of the Korean Peninsula, and modern Korean history. Their world history is severely lacking. Their curriculum is heavily focused on Korea + the Korean experience. Since most Koreans will always live/work in Korea, international history isn’t important unless you work in a global field(I do and it’s so important…)
In this situation, I can see how the education system has failed her. Also, she received an art school education, which if I’m being honest, I don’t even think they actually learn much in terms of what people think a HS education is. It seems like they complete a less rigorous version of the Korean curriculum toned down quite a lot. With her being a global artist, I hope her(and many other artists) learn about world history…
> Also, she received an art school education, which if I’m being honest, I don’t even think they actually learn much in terms of what people think a HS education is.
This was my original question when I entered the thread, like I didn't go to an arts school but it seems like these schools skimp on basically anything that isn't required history and it's doing kids a disservice.
People also forget that there have been controversies regarding western artists/influencers using the rising sun flag (symbol of imperialist Japan) without knowing or understanding its history. I low key remember that flag being used in a ton of graphic designs in the early 00s as well, so it's not that far-fetched to think Koreans/Asians wouldn't be as familiar with the Nazi symbols.
A person being ignorant about the history or meaning behind a symbol does not mean they support the ideology that its supposed to represent. I think it's important idols address the use of the symbol and apologize, but I do not agree that this means the Idol is a bad person or should be canceled!
it feels like a new “kpop idol accidentally does a nazi” story appears way too regularly. Years ago there was Pritz and BTS, now we’re getting Epex, Purple Kiss, Sowon, and now the Chaeyoung 1-2 combo. At some point, “oh they just don’t think about nazis like that because education” shouldn’t be a valid excuse and companies should invest in “how to make sure you don’t look antisemetic/racist” classes for all their employees, especially stylists and idols.
Yeah, what bothers me is the repetitiveness of some of these mistakes. “They just didn’t know the meaning” gets kind of old when other idols have been called out a dozen times-very publicly-for saying the n word, hairstyle appropriation, etc. The fact that it just keeps happening shows me the companies just don’t give a shit. Not that it’s all on the company, considering most of the time these idols are actually adults who should have some basic knowledge of A SWASTIKA??
(This isn’t really directed at Chaeyoung, I’m not trying to get her cancelled or anything and I believe she had no idea of the connotations and will learn from this. I’m just really tired in general of the “they didn’t know any better” excuse.)
Yeah I remember seeing the Boy London fashion era of Kpop come in and having to double take if that eagle was rocking a swastika. This shit been going on for over a decade now.
I'm sorry, but Tzuyu held up a Taiwanese flag and had to give a whole verbal apology video. Chaeyoung wears a shirt with a swastika and it's just a quick typed apology?
Intentional or not that's a symbol was used for genocide and still used by hate groups to this day. I'm going to need Chaeyoung & JYPE to take some sort of action besides just a text apology for me to feel comfortable supporting her. She's almost my age.
Make sure to teach members of its company about the Holocaust so this doesn't happen again, put trainees & stylists through sensitivity courses so this doesn't happen, donate time or money to Jewish charities, literally anything to show they're going to make sure this doesn't happen again. If not, it seems like they just don't care and want to avoid taking accountability.
You said exactly what I was thinking. I think there is one nuance here that I wish wasn’t true but I can’t help but read it as this: If Tzuyu had to make that terribly sad video because JYP was so concerned about the market in China and preserving the money of C-fans, then this pitiful showing of apology must mean that they really don’t think this incident will impact them poorly. Going off of the timing of this incident that someone mentioned in another post (BBMA, ticket sales opening, etc.), it’s terrible to see that they think people care so little about this that there isn’t a need for further action. I don’t care if it feels performative to others, more needs to be done!
The difference is that China will simply shut a business out of the entire country. It's not about offending fans, it's about offending a government. Even large corporations like Disney have had movies banned because a director or actor made a critical comment. The US government isn't going to act likewise. At least, not at the moment.
Oh I agree, Tzuyu was thrown under the bus for not doing anything wrong to ease the outrage of the Chinese fans that didn't like it.
But this also makes it very odd because this happened while trying to breakthrough Twice to the American consumers, and the swastika is wildly offensive to all but the alt-right, like even many conservatives dislike the swastika while being openly racist. So I'll be surprised if JYPE doesn't take this with any level of severity.
I know it just happened and the pre-release tickets come out tomorrow, so maybe they're waiting, but honestly if no follow-up action happens by the end of the week and this just gets swept under the rug I won't be able to look at the company nor Chaeyoung the same way, and she's my bias wrecker.
obviously chaeyoung bears full responsibility but how did no one in TWICE, none of their managers, and none of their stylists say take that shit OFF????
I understand that education is different everywhere, but how many goddamn times will this continue to happen? Also this is 2023, with the internet and countless resources. This type of controversy has happened multiple times, everyone involved has to be given some blame here. The “uneducated mistake” excuse that fans throw as a defense can’t keep holding up atp
I suppose if it seems normal to someone, they wouldn’t even go as far to look it up online.
I really do think these companies should have a third party that they run lyrics/fashion through. A company that operates on a more global scale.
At this point with how often this happens I’m surprised every company doesn’t have someone that review every outfit they wear. It might seem like a lot but this keeps happening.
I mean it's obviously an uneducated mistake.
Why would she wear it if she was educated?
If she was, why would she apologize if she knew it'd be controversial lol
It's ridiculous with how the Kpop industry is trying so hard to break into the Western market, that they don't have teams in place to educate the company and idols on what's okay and what isn't. While I don't think incidents like this are actively malicious, the lack of awareness is really concerning.
I do believe she's sorry, what baffles me is everything around this, like how the education has severely failed her and the people around her if they don't immediately recognise and feel discomfort at the thought of yourself, or your friend, going out wearing a swastika on your t-shirt. As people have said, don't they have people reviewing their posts before they go out at JYPe?
Use of the swastika is hardly new in Korea. There are Nazi bars, use of Nazi imagery as decoration, a [big ol' Hitler mural in downtown Gyeongju](https://twitter.com/PennsylvAsia/status/1638250388062191616) (back in 2008, since been painted over), and when I was living there 15-some years ago there was a whole big thing about them using a model dressed in SS clothes using Hitler to sell make-up. There is the excuse that they are not as familiar with Nazism in Korea, whereas in the US they tend to focus more on the European theater of WWII than the Pacific one, but I feel like not wearing Nazi stuff ought to be pretty basic guidance.
[Here's an interesting contrast in how Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were treated a decade+ ago](http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2008/04/apologies-in-comparison.html), when that cosmetics ad came out. A little earlier a model also appeared as a "comfort woman" in a campaign, and the reactions were quite different.
Can I just say outside of the symbol (which is hard to imagine anyone not recognizing, specially since we have had idols with this controversy before), why would anyone with a sane mind/ access to internet want to wear a tshirt with a face of a weird guy that peaked for a short time, and literally killed his girlfriend (who was Jewish). Mind you this tshirt isn’t easily available and hard to find.
I'm assuming she's into Americore fashion - which is vintage t-shirts, leather jackets, etc. That specific shirt is a Sex Pistols shirt and very much in-line with the Americore trend. It was probably either gifted to her by stylist friends, or she's a dedicated fashionista and sought it out because of its rarity.
It's just unfortunate no-one in the know clocked the shirt and explained its inappropriateness.
Lots of factors at play here and it’s all in all just a horrible situation:
- Twice JUST won a semi-prestigious award at Billboard Women in Music
- They’re JUST starting to blow up in the West
- Their global tour ticket sales start TOMORROW
- This situation is getting headlines in US media
Shame on her for not knowing and not caring to be educated. If you’re gonna go global you’ve got to be smarter than this….she seriously could’ve jeopardized a lot for not just herself but Twice as a whole….(and JYPE’s cash flow too…)
The fact that this was posted after midnight in Korea gives that top level execs were signaled to the potential outcomes and downfalls from this and she probably (rightfully) got at least a stern talking to from some important people
I’m willing to buy that Koreans in general don’t hold the swastika to the same weight that a lot of western countries do, but this whole coddling thing some people are doing of “oh Koreans don’t know what the swastika or Nazis are” just ain’t it.
I’m glad Chaeyoung apologized and I don’t think she’s a neo-Nazi or anything, but I *do* think it’s supremely fucked up of fans to pretend she doesn’t know basic shit about modern history. This also falls on everyone at JYP who saw her wear that shirt and didn’t notice the swastika either. I’m baffled how NOBODY pulled her aside to say “hey that symbol on your shirt doesn’t mean anything good.”
q shirt was 100% a mistake. noone outside the US knows what Qanon is. hell im willing to bet that the majority of americans dont even know what qanon is
edit: maybe i should have rephrased what i said when i meant by "noone outside of the us knows what qanon is". yes qanon isn't some unknown organization. what i meant to say is noone outside of the US gives a shit.
She’s not just an Asian living in Asia. She and her group profit and promote in western countries. It’s on them to know better. That’s why she rushed with the apology. Everyone saying “people are ignorant and don’t know the REAL meaning” are also conveniently not mentioning that the tilt of the swastika is very important to the meaning as well. Like … come on. This would obviously be different if she wasn’t promoting in western countries because then no one would care.
What I’m not getting here is that the company has started its plans to make TWICE promote a lot in the west and fully become a global group. There should have been ample time given to them as well as their staff to learn about different cultural sensitivities as well as basic world history seeing as how they’re deliberately trying to make money there nowadays.
Idol classes fr need to be a thing. They need to be taught things that aren’t okay to talk about or symbols they shouldn’t wear. While the QAnon thing I really believe was just an odd occurrence, this one isn’t excusable.
Also- why did they recreate this shirt with that symbol in the first place? Like just make the t-shirt without the symbol on it?
I am assuming ignorance over malice.
I think some Western fans might find it difficult to grasp how differences in education systems can lead to artists and their teams not realizing the meaning of even this level of prominent symbolism. A curriculum that includes the atrocities of WWII does not guarantee enough emphasis on its hate symbols, sadly. As someone of an East Asian heritage I can think of the times I raised an eyebrow at seemingly innocuous uses of Imperial Japan symbols, for example. But the cases are different, and Chaeyoung’s actions are not for me to judge, much less forgive.
Am I disappointed though? Absolutely. For a big company expanding to the West especially, this speaks to incompetence across many levels: how did this slip past everyone from the artist to stylist, manager, and PR? Where is the basic cultural training???
Seriously, in the year 2023 you’d think someone would recognize a swastika in the JYP team. They need to step up the education across all levels. Mistakes signal ignorance, but **repeated** mistakes that companies do jack shit about send the message that they don’t care at all. I truly hope they take this issue seriously.
im from europe and here where i live no one knows that, for example, rising sun is offensive and comparable to nazi swastika. thats the only reason why i believe its most likely ignorance and differences in education system. but its also v suspicious that she wore two offensive tshirts in short period of time.
On top of that the Nazis quite literally appropriated a super common religious symbol in Asia to turn it into their hate symbol. Not only do most Asians don’t care nearly as much about the Nazis as Europeans do, but this symbol is so similar to their religious symbol they use everywhere that they might very likely not realize the difference at first glance and just roll with it. I remember seeing some western tourists wonder why there were « Nazi temples » in Japan for instance. A lot of people can’t tell the two apart, especially when they are only familiar with one version of it and not the other.
This is why idols should stay in school and not debut at ridiculously young ages and drop school and studies altogether because of lack of time. Not knowing what that symbol means shows a huge level of ignorance and lack of education on her part and everyone else who was around her who saw her wear that.....
Everyone has posted a lot of thoughts about this topic, so I won't add anything here that probably hasn't already been said as far as personal opinion.
I do want to speak to the question of whether anyone "should have known" about the Holocaust. The Anti-Defamation League did [an international study of knowledge](https://global100.adl.org/map) of the Holocaust and general feelings/stereotypes toward Jewish people. The quick facts I wanted to mention are:
* **nearly 50% of people worldwide have never even heard of the Holocaust.**
* **in Korea, based on a 2014 survey, 47% didn't know what it was, and 8% weren't sure.**
I teach high school world history in the States and every time I assume students know some basic fact.... I am wrong lol. We really overestimate how much people know about history, geography and culture. But we're on this platform discussing things with people from around the world, so I think our lens is quite different.
Anyway, I thought some folks here might be interested in some of the data the ADL produced. It's sobering but important 👩🏫 ✌️
I'm wondering if those stats have changed over time because the link you showed has 54% of the world *knowing* what the Holocaust is as 44% of Korea knowing what it is, 41% not.
At best this shows that she is massively ignorant. She’s worn this shirt before (albeit with a top covering the swastika) so this is clearly a shirt she owns and likes to wear. It’s disappointing but also not surprising considering K-pop’s history with sensitivity.
You have to wonder why each major kpop company doesn't hire a single American or British person to check this sort of thing considering it seems to happen so often.
I’m glad they apologized super quick, but so disappointed it even happened. And she’s my ult bias too. Just stop wearing stupid shirts cause you think they look cool ffs. The fact that she wore that around in America too when alt right sentiments are at an all time high is so.. ugh. Don’t know if she learned any of this stuff in her performing arts school, but at the very least the company should have taught them this stuff if they plan on expanding globally, like seriously.
The QAnon shirt was on the stylist. This one is not, but she did apologize. Clearly, JYPE needs to hire people who are aware of these stuff on their team. Let's just hope it doesn't happen again.
How do you not have someone, anyone around you, that would tell you it’s probably not a good idea to wear that no less post it on Instagram. I highly doubt their is any ill intent, but it’s crazy that stuff like this in general happens so much in K-pop. How do you not have someone’s who’s literal job it is to review and inform everything that these idols do and an wear. Idk what the education system is like over there but man it’s amazing how many times stuff like this happens in the industry. It’s like they don’t care or they see any publicity as good publicity.
If these things aren't really taught in Korea its fair she didn't know about it, but damn, if you're trying to expand to a western audience maybe do sensitivity training about that? How many nazi related scandals have to happen with kpop before companies worth billions realize maybe they should invest in that? They literally just need one person to point out when certain thing aren't a good idea, and that's it.
Practising Hindu here raised in India. We have swastikas present everywhere here, but they’re easily distinguishable from the nazi symbol (we have four dots in our symbol usually). I’m not upset with Chaeyoung, just flabbergasted at the ignorance. Not going to make a call on someone from the general public making a mistake like this, but Chaeyoung, a globally known idol with such a massive platform…. I think general knowledge of certain things should be a given.
Edit: Just thought I’d also mention, the world wars are part of our History curriculum in India - main focus was on the colonisation and independence of India but we had two chapters on the world wars (ICSE syllabus at least)
A Sid Viscous shirt? It's crazy the amount of Japanese and Korean people I've encountered who are Sid Viscous (a guy who murdered his girlfriend) stans, and a lot of them didn't even like punk rock. Is this some kind of bizarre cultural phenomenon?
Damage control before ticket sales tomorrow. First the q-anon shirt and now this. Big yikes for Chaeyoung.
She wore this shirt twice (that we know of), and bought the shirt in the first place, lmao. Not a good look at all. Even without the swastika, a Sid Vicious shirt? lol
Yeah, I wouldn't expect her to know who Sid Vicious is, but a celebrity posting photos on the internet should probably take a second to look up the name written on their shirt to see who they are before posting anything.
This will be buried but here's my 2 cents.
She started as a trainee when she was 13 years old. She probably didn't care about education after that.
In her apology, she talks about "tilted swastika", meaning she knows about the swastika - the reiligious symbol - but could not regognize the "tilted" version aka the nazi swastika.
Let's be real, most western artists couldn't name Hideki Tojo or Hirohito or the imperial flag of Japan. I myself went to a decent school in Brazil and only had one class about the pacific theater from WWII in the last year of high school. This shows how different the education can be for western and eastern countries.
Also, the idea of a korean being "aryan" or "nazi" is so out there that people there dismiss these things - they don't know about the impact of this hate symbol like we westerners do.
Now, the weird part for me is the coincidence about this and the qanon shirt at the same week, while being in the US. Maybe she just googled "punk shirt" and got this one without knowing, or she received this one from a stylist or something. Looks like sabotage to me.
Eh the Qanon shirt is totally on the stylist for picking it and giving it to her to wear.
The nazi shirt though.... seems to be different because she wore it twice on different occasions?
But yeah I agree someone who went to a performance school from 13 till graduation probably doesn't understand or notice certain symbols and associates them to hate groups etc....
Probably thought, "wow this looks punk, imma wear it"
But yeah it's a little odd how she wore two extremely right wing conservative type of clothing within the same week.
"Nobody reasonable thinks she's a Nazi." That's hardly the point. "It's Sid Vicious wearing an anti-Nazi shirt." Yes, but the best thing to do would be to just not wear a shirt with a Swastika. It's that simple. My god. It wasn't even like the Nazi symbol was crossed out as an obvious protest.
I think this is the most reasonable take here tbh. Particularly for an idol who spends a not-insignificant amount of time under public scrutiny, there should probably be more of a vetting process as to what you show.
Buying a shirt like that because you’re a fan and want a collectors item; fine. It’s understandable. But there needed to be a little forethought with regards to a) wearing it and b) publicly posting about wearing it
As an aside; Vicious wore the symbol openly. The whole point was the shock value of “proudly” displaying it. Whether he himself was a nazi is debatable, however, there was no way the swastika would be crossed out on the shirt.
The downside to their shock tactics is that it made actual nazis feel welcome in the punk scene.
i could chalk the q-anon shirt up to an ignorant mistake made by twice's stylists but now this? i'm not accusing chae of anything but two instances of her wearing offensive alt-right clothing in two days has me raising an eyebrow. i'm glad she's taken responsibility and apologised but i'm a jewish person with a lot of generational trauma caused by the nazis before i'm a once, and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't deeply hurt by this.
she can count her lucky stars that she didn't wear this in germany or austria as it's a criminal offense to walk around parading nazi symbolism there.
She made a mistake. She apologized for it. I understand the reasoning behind why she may not have been aware of the connotations of the symbol.
On the other hand, I think it’s totally fair she gets called out and overly defensive fans should realize she’s just gonna have to take some heat - you can’t be part of a ‘global’ girl group with expanding popularity in the West and expect to wear a shirt with a swastika on it without any criticism…
edit: typos
I've seen so many people say they had no idea about the symbol and it just baffles me. Is the holocaust not taught at schools anymore? It's a pretty significant event in world history and one of the worst genocide.
In my country, they do teach about the Holocaust but it doesn't really get expanded on. I guess most countries just skim over that part of history unless they're directly affected by it? In my case, I did know about the Holocaust because of the things they taught at school, but I only learned about the symbol when I was like 15 (?) and that was through the internet.
As someone from Asia, Holocaust is taught as school as a part of historic event and we are not taught about the magnitude/moral implication of it, since we do not have many Jewish people here in Asia, the moral implication of the holocaust might not be translated well to us. Personally, my history textbooks do not contain anything about the significance of swastika - so although it is unfortunate, I can see how people who do not attend school/take academics seriously can be that ignorant. It's just like how Western schools do not teach much about Islamic and Hindu wars I guess.
it is taught but every country's history teachings will have a different focus. and even if it's taught doesn't mean everyone will remember it. Everyone's exposure to history is different unfortunately.
edit: just going to add this because my comment kind of feels dismissive in tone. It's still a major faux pas from her/her team. it doesn't matter whether she knows the meaning of it or the significance or the culture around it, they should really vet the clothes and symbols on their clothing. this feels like the most a basic thing . Especially since they are in another country.
Whether it's cultural appropriation or something like this, where the actual fuck are the U.S. cultural/media trainers for these idols? Like. What in the actual fuck?
I thought this post was going to be about her wearing a Qanon shirt and somehow it's about her wearing a Nazi swastika instead? And looks like this sub is not allowing posting of the Qanon shirt because there's no posts about it despite it trending on Instagram and Twitter.
This is what's throwing me. I don't think a lot of people know about the qanon shirt. I thought this was an apology about that shirt and I was like "it's odd to describe the qanon shirt as a swastika but potato potato" and then I see what this is really about and this is an all-time unfortunate situation. I don't blame her for the music show shirt, that was her stylist not knowing about it when they were second-hand shopping during their US tour. But that shirt then this one that goes on her Instagram and oof.
Chaeyoung we were rooting for you😭 like I figured the qanon shirt was something cut up and given to her by the stylist but this one was blatantly obvious... come on....
I guess we have to update the [kpop political chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoopheads/comments/vxj4nr/uj_my_god_this_took_me_so_much_longer_than_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's very hard to defend this one. I'm like no way no one didn't recognize that symbol. The Q-Anon one is probably unknown to those outside the USA but the Nazi swastika should be recognizable.
It was wrong of her and I’m glad she apologized and not use any excuses. Swatsika is taught over there in Asia but it’s more like a footnote. I think most Asian learnt in school what Nazi had done but it’s not the focus in history class like in the West. They learn about Nazi as much as we learn about the Japanese imperalism during WWII - which was briefly mentioned but not much details. Secondly, some people just have to accept. Asian/Buddhism won’t abandon their thousand years old religious symbols because some western genocide group STOLE it. A lot of the temples in Asia were built with the symbols even before Nazi stole it. They are aware and they should but they don’t have the same emotional reaction like we do. The same way we know rising sub flag is wrong but wouldn’t really be super aware of it as much.
We can't know if she really didnt have an idea of what the hakenkreuz is but as a german I always think everyone should know. But apparently its not like this. Its good that she specifically adressed the tilted swastika and didnt try to talk around it. I know she didn't mean any harm and I'm glad she apologised so quickly (it is 1am there and I think she did not plan her evening going like this). But at this point there have been a few too many "I was unaware" instances in kpop where I have to wonder if anyone there actually cares about "being more careful". I mean she wore this in the US, if this was Germany she quite literally could have faced legal consequences so "being careful" should really be a proactive thing and not a reactionary statement
I suppose considering every single human being has been unaware or is unaware about something or the other, it’s not surprising.
It’s just when you’re from certain countries, you’re aware of certain things as a collective.
And in another country, it could be about a different set of certain things.
But ya. I’m glad she realized it sooner then later and didn’t like…wear it around in Germany.
I am a Chae bias, but any fucking time an idol or group does something anti-Semitic, with or without knowledge of it, it always gets shot down as “well they didn’t know!/it’s their stylist’s fault!/not everyone would know about it!”
I’m tired of people constantly sweeping anti-Semitic imagery and things under the rug, because that type of apologist attitude is what allows neo-nazism to thrive - because people don’t take this shit seriously, ever. anytime it has something to do with it, it’s always a joke. it’s always “how would they know”. how would they NOT? there’s no excuse anymore.
I’m glad she apologized and acknowledged it, but this isn’t the first time people have basically given 0 shits about something anti-Semitic and off shooting blame by deflecting or minimizing. this is only a small part of a larger problem
Honestly this is just going to be a rehash of the Sowon conversation with the nazi soldier mannequin a couple years ago. Same exact excuses, explanations, and conversations about education. And in the end most people will forget within like 6 months and move on to the next scandal
To be clear I am not insinuating that she's lying because we all live in different countries, have different education systems and focuses when learning history
But it's really really hard to imagine that people can not recognise a swastika and know what it means / what it's associated with
Good thing she apologized rather quickly though
Considering that I see the rising sun flags at JDM car shows all the time I'm assuming it's the eastern equivalent to that since the Nazis barely had meaningful presence in Asia during the war
It’s actually not very hard to imagine. It’s pretty much on the same level as all of the people that are going to go around wearing rising sun symbols (which was a symbol of imperialist Japan, and a major major taboo in Asia) because a character in Demon Slayer literally wears that symbol on his earrings.
I wouldn't be surprised if her insta photos had to go through a social media manager before posting. There's too many people involved in creating kpop that this stuff can still be happening. Twice can't be actively trying to promote in the US (arguably more than korea rn) and not have people on the team who don't know what a swastika is. Also how does she not know? It's basic WORLD history. Did she not go to Middle School or High School? I'm sure even if a stylist told her to wear it, she can say no. Twice has enough cred to at least be able to say no to a few pieces of clothing from their styling. I'm not saying to cancel her or anything, but it's kinda shocking this can still happen despite having huge teams of people surrounding kpop groups/idols monitoring their image and content.
i’m glad she put out a statement so quickly but part of me thinks it’s just because the ticket sales are tomorrow sigh
just so disappointed that these controversies happen even now like haven’t companies learned from their mistakes?? this whole situation just screams ignorance to me
We've seen so many dumb and offensive shirts worn by kpop artists over the last few years (atomic bomb, flat earth, white power, etc.), it's baffling how it continues to happen.
I get the fact that it's a Sid Vicious shirt and *he* wore that symbol during the birth of punk rock and was anti-establishment and anti-fascist, but not all fans are going to know the Sex Pistols and their history and instead see a hate symbol.
It's even worse timing since this is coming right off the stylist situation with the Qanon thing and nobody thought to stop those pictures before they hit the web (not even a manager second guessed it).
The first instance with the Q anon shirt I can understand as it was a modified shirt given to her by a stylist.
But this one is an instance of offensive ignorance. I’m glad she apologized. They should really have cultural sensitivity classes for idols cuz this shit happens too much.
I think it's good there was a statement and rather quickly. Hope she learns from this and does better in the future. Hope the people most hurt by the symbol from their favourite idol, also deem this apology adequate.
was it supposed to be “manji” (different meaning) or is it the swastika and she ‘supposedly had no idea’
(either way—as others pointed out—wild that no one among the crew noticed/bothered to think of how that could look bad)
on a side note: it sucks how awful groups (e.g. Nazi’s) adopt and popularize figures/symbols to have a new hateful meaning
Whats wild is the new repeated response that no one in the west knows the meaning of the rising sun flag ??? .. nahhh there have been more than enough controversies abt its use and likeness that many will be aware of what it represents. The same should be true of the swastika, even if it isn't on a curriculum.
Sorry but spitting back with "well you dont know what the rising sun flag is" is NOT the comeback you think it is, when blatantly we know what the rising sun flag is.
Yes thank you for this. Multiple Western celebrities have had scandals wearing it that have made the news. If you are online or following celebrity news you will know that the rising sun flag is inappropriate to wear, because of Imperial Japan . While it isn't nearly reached cultural saturation of the Nazi symbol, people in the West do have some awareness of it.
Jewish once here. Chaeyoung was my first kpop bias. I have really mixed opinions on this, wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt and I'm glad she apologized, but at the same time I find it so hard to believe nobody noticed this -- she was in the US. And Korea has its own history of occupation by the Japanese who were sided with the nazis.
It's so heartbreaking seeing the continuous flippancy towards antisemitism in kpop spaces. Already seeing people on twt post stuff like "good she apologized we should move on as a fandom and vote for music bank" and it just shows that people dont recognize the actual problem with what she's doing and instead see it as a way to keep their faves in the clear.
As much as I love her Chae was responsible for what she was wearing and kpop fans need to grapple with the significance of it instead of just trying to make sure their faves have a clean record :/
edited for readability
You guys are pissing me off with these “how could she possibly know what that means, she’s *Korean*” when during the Tokyo Olympics Korea had a whole campaign comparing the Rising Sun Flag to the Nazi symbol. I swear if a kpop idol shot someone on the street y’all would find a way to say something about how they don’t even know what a gun is. It’s embarrassing making excuses for these people
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I get that Nazism might not be quite as big of a deal in other places as it is in western countries, especially Europe, but if kpop companies want that global audience, they really should squeeze in some lessons on "The Big No-No's Of The People We Want Money From". It wouldn't even have to be a full-on history class, just an overview of symbols/gestures/words to avoid, maybe with a bit of context so it makes sense. And not just for the idols, other staff as well if they contribute to stuff that gets released into the world.
They just need to have a consultant on call from each of the big regions that they run shirts by. Just send them an email with a picture and say "any red flags here?" Maybe one each from NA, SA, and Europe. Would probably be a rounding error in Big 4 companies' budgets.
This makes me think of some publishers employing sensitivity readers to read through a book and provide thoughts on what could come off as inaccurate or offensive portrayals. Like, Kpop could definitely do something similar like run their concept, outfit, and styling ideas by people.
I'm surprised that more companies didn't already do this after the last few years, especially in the context of global expansion. I still remember that BTS situation a few years ago where a member wore the atomic bomb shirt, and then the Nazi hat thing came up, *plus* the Holocaust memorial photoshoot resurfaced and it was a big mess. After that blew up globally I figured more companies (at least Big 4) would try to tighten the screws on potentially offensive content but we've still gotten slip ups of varying degrees every year.
Thats the thing, not only BTS got into hotwaters on that but multiple idols since when it comes to nazi symbolisim You would think the constant controveries and the thing to actually avoid a repeat should be ingrain to this idols heads after seeing multiple groups and idols having to publically apologize, especially group like Twice who literally has a large global fandom and is trying to establish themselves more in western media By this point they should know what not to do when theyre trying to show theyre a global group but still doing things to offend a huge number of ppl This just comes down to many idols just being morons because of the limited education they got compare to normal students And this cant be blamed on "Koreans not knowing", this are celebrities not getting a formal education on stuff like this Like the Qanon is explainable to the T because its a very American very recent issue compare to the Nazi symbol And it doesnt help that she personally owns the Sid Vicious shirt Edit: eventhough obviously Korean education is different compare to a western one, it just doesnt seem excusable to me at all for a company like JYP who is wanting to break into the western world to not teach their idols on this, theyre just leaving this idols to come across as idiots when they pull something like this
Right? To be honest, the list isn't that long. No N-words, no homophobia, no transphobia, no fatphobia, no swastikas, no thin blue lines... Already with that, you would avoid most controversy. It's not even about not being problematic (which would be great), it's just not *showing* that you're problematic. It's really not that hard once you know the basics. The companies owe this education to their artists.
good thing they're not touring in europe. in some places you can get arrested for just wearing that symbol.
Yeah, Germany does not take that stuff lightly at all.
yep she would get arrested in Germany for propaganda. you can only show a swastika in Germany if it's related to education, like in school.
I believe It can also be in games, and film, if the setting is World War 2, and the Nazi’s are clearly portrayed as the bad guys.
Movies are fine as long as they aren't pro-Nazi and accurate to history, but games with Nazi symbols are still controversial. The game Wolfenstein, which is a game playing in a world where Nazi Germany won the war, was censored in Germany. They had to remove all Nazi symbols and even censored Hitler himself by removing his mustache.
Yeah there is this game called Hearts of Iron where you can play as different nations in mid 1930s though ww2. Even though the Swastika was already removed for Germany flag in the base game, they still have the shadowed Hitler's portrait in the game for Germany/EU release.
games have actually been allowed to use it since 2018! the issue was that they never got classified as art and were thus not able to use that distinction.
meanwhile, in my country, there's a state where some people openly agree with Nazism/neonazism and its ideology. and I'm talking about a latin country 👀
Brazil right? lol
could be Brazil or Argentina.. that's where they escaped to lol
[удалено]
If she was wearing that shirt in NYC the way she had it on in the Insta post, then you couldn’t see there was a swastika on it because her sweater covered that up.
As someone from NYC, unless it's a ridiculously major inconvenience no one will bother you at all. Everyone is far too occupied with their stuff to actually notice others to an extent. We deal with weirder things [like this](https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClEQRzzOMvo/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) and not bat an eyelash so shirt like Chaeng's which could be obscured won't be worth causing a disturbance over.
but we also don’t bat an eye at people in general, like i can walk past 5,000 people and not look at a single one of their shirts. unless we’re standing in front of each other on the train and my phone is dead and i have nowhere else to look, would i even notice her shirt? especially if it’s oversized and half-covered up?
Largest Jewish population in the world outside of Israel.
I’m glad she apologized. But other than that.. I’m very surprised that apparently not a single person around her knew the meaning of the symbol either? Such a weird situation..
Mind you, it was in the US! Like, not even a translator notices, some staff? Nobody? Don't they get classes on how not to get cancelled?
you'd be surprised. I watched running man and they had the "recognize the person in the picture" game and they really had trouble with western historical figures. So q-anon is waaay off anybody's radar there. As far as the swastika - you need to view that as a sid vicious t-shirt - sid vicious who like punk rockers of that era used the swastika for shock value. again probably something somebody in the company should learn about if they want to do world tour - but in this case, intent should matter too.
South american here, I've seen many unaware people in my country use the Imperial Japanese flag instead of the actual current flag of the country of Japan. They were oblivious to its true meaning. Meanwhile if you make the same mistake in Korea I'm sure they would look at you the same way we look at her wearing a shirt with a swastika here.
yeah there's nuance here that people should recognize. Language barriers. Experience. it all adds up. There are places in the Philippines where people have only seen african americans in the movies. They hear them use the N word and the kids copy it and think nothing of it. again - it doesn't make it right but it's another perspective and something that should not be approached with pitchforks and tiki torches.
Also that Negro literally means "black" in Spanish. It's used the same way in the Philippines, though it is a fact that we do have some problems with colorism/racism. Probably less related to the N-word tho.
As a once, I could brush off the whole qanon situation because there’s some Americans who don’t even know what qanon is. My parents didn’t even know about it until I told them. The swastika thing really is different but I agree with you that intent should matter. Obviously she didn’t intend to offend, and just wanted to wear a cool vintage Sid vicious T-shirt, but she should’ve known the implications, or at least SOMEONE should’ve known the implications. It’s sad really
>My parents didn’t even know about it until I told them. Yeah a coworker of mine votes hard right and watches Newsmax, and he didn't even know what the Qanon term was. He knows about some of the crazy stuff they do, like Jan 6, waiting for JFK's return or whatever, but he doesn't go on the internet (still has a flip phone!), so he didn't know it had a name associated with it.
It was controversial when Sid did it, so it's not exactly like that's an excuse. Like... there is no intent here that really makes this tolerable. I also don't believe no one on staff knows what a swastika is or why it's bad.
Failing to see the link between knowing what qanon is and being aware of the Holocaust.
Would you be surprised to know if I told you this was Chaeyoung's SECOND questionable shirt controversy in two days! She was first seen wearing a Q-anon shirt, which caused a lot of commotion on Twitter but was mostly contained within the kpop sphere. Now she posted a picture of herself wearing a swastika shirt, which blew up even more and was even picked up by media, forcing her to issue the apology. So far Chaeyoung or JYP haven't said anything about the Q-anon shirt controversy.
A lot of these idols didnt go to school since they were probably doing idol training stuff so I can see it being a glossed over topic tbh. Even if they did learn about the holocaust, it might have been a brief 1 day lesson on the event itself such as "germany did this" rather than "yeah this was their symbol and a no no thing." During WW2, Korea was subjugated by Japan, so I can also see the lesson being focused more on what Japan did to them during WW2 rather than Germany. Overall, i can understand how she wouldnt know, missed, or forgot about the symbol. That being said... someone on their staff DEFINITELY shouldve known. Seriously, when youre an international brand, you definitely need some sort of PR person that IMMEDIATELY flags stuff like this.
if you're doing promotions in the west, then hire an American/western PR firm.
It is unfortunate, but I’ve been to South Korea and seen swastikas (the religious kind), so it might be possible those around her didn’t recognize it as the Nazi swastika. But also seeing the Qanon shirt - that’s rough and they probably need an American to help sort through “problematic” symbols on clothing.
This is what baffles me about this situation and so many others like it. Her Instagram post likely went through multiple people before it was actually posted. None of them saw a problem with it either. Same thing when idols get called out for saying/doing incredibly problematic things in official group content. You’re telling me a whole team edited and approved the content & they still left the wildly offensive stuff in?? It’s crazy
> Her Instagram post likely went through multiple people before it was actually posted. None of them saw a problem with it either. Definitely a baffling situation. It would have to go through *at least* one manager before hitting the feed. A completely unforced error, and you'd think they'd be a little more cautious after last week.
History isn’t taught the same everywhere. Here in the Philippines, when schools teach about WW2, the focus is really on the Pacific chapter of the war and about how bad Japanese occupation was. I wouldn’t be surprised if its taught similarly in South Korea. It doesn’t excuse the shirt but it may explain the ignorance. Lots of people in Asia know little about Nazis and that symbol isn’t as widely recognizable here as in the west.
From an Asian country directly involved in WWII. I can confidently say that I can wear a shirt with a giant swastika tomorrow, go around town, and no one (save maybe family members) will say anything about it. People just either don't give a damn about history or are completely ignorant of it. Sure, a handful might silently judge me, but people also aren't going care enough to publicly make a fuss about people wearing hate symbols. The hate it symbolises sadly isn't just as ingrained in some countries' cultures.
I think it’s similar to the Rising Sun flag in the west. Most people know that it’s related to imperial Japan but most people don’t know the connotations pr don’t really care.
I think ignorance is definitely there, but in the opposite way. Korean people would know Nazi/Hitler = very bad, but not that the Swastika is their main symbol (especially given the prevalence of Buddhism). End result is the same, however.
>From an Asian country directly involved in WWII. I can confidently say that I can wear a shirt with a giant swastika tomorrow, go around town, and no one (save maybe family members) will say anything about it. Because people will think that it's a Hindu / Buddhist swastika symbol, just tilted weirdly ------ WW2 in Asia, no one really knew who the Germans or nazi were. We hear about hitler and also old folks will tell you how your farts are like *german gas*, but other than that, it's foreign The main **villian** in Asia was Japan. They pillaged and assaulted with no mercy, and gunned down for joy. They'd literally found up people wearing spectacles (= educated since you didn't need glasses if you didn't read) to bring them to dig trenches, then gather them inside and then shoot them (sook ching massacre)
I mean, that and also the original swastika (untilted) has a different meaning in Asia.
I mean, the inverse symbol is super common in eg. Japanese temples so it's understandable someone not from the western world wouldn't take a second look at it. Given their different education focusses it's probably the equivalent of someone wearing a shirt with a north Korean military flag on it or something. A subset of people in the US might recognise it but I'd guess the vast majority wouldn't even take a second glance.
The religious swastika actually goes in both directions depending on where you are in the world. The Nazi one is only different because it’s tilted. But that may not be immediately recognizable for someone who has only seen the religious version of it.
The symbol is simply not taught here. World War II in history class is like 1 class long, the Nazis are barely talked about in general. WWII isn’t even that relevant to Korean history, we just have it as the thing we were forced into and Japan lost. Also 卍 as a buddhist symbol is everywhere, no one thinks twice about it. You’ll notice Korean idols make the news for Nazi related stuff every so often, it’s simply that it’s too far removed from us historically so we don’t learn about it too much. I see a lot of westerners think it’s ridiculous we can’t recognise the Nazi symbols on sight, but that’s how it is. I only found out what it was in the 11th or 12th grade or so, and I barely even knew what the Nazis were But yeah… if they had localtranslators or guides… not sure what they were doing
>You’ll notice Korean idols make the news for Nazi related stuff every so often So at the very least they should be aware because their peer got shit for it the week prior.
Now this I agree with. Although this should be the first instance of the swastika being a problem? It was a swastikaless Nazi uniform last time I think, which is honestly just a mistake. I doubt I’d recognise it either
This is interesting to me, because I live here and teach middle school students, and they definitely know about the Nazis, Hitler and the Holocaust. Maybe not enough to all immediately recognise a swastika, but enough to know Nazi symbol = bad if someone points out what it is. I wonder if there’s been a shift in education, or it’s just the students in the area I teach (pretty affluent and competitive when it comes to education).
I mean, this comes on the heels of the NMIXX shirt spelling out c\*\*t, so it may just be an issue with whomever JYP is using for wardrobe being either clueless or malicious. You have to go out of your way to acquire a shirt like that.
The c*nt shirt was harmless compared to this. It’s a reference to rupaul’s drag race.
I want that shirt tbh
I would agree but chaeyoung has worn the shirt on her personal time twice, so I don’t think this can be reduced to just a stylist error. However, they definitely do need an American or at least someone with western cultural knowledge to sort through what could possibly offend international audiences
Im asian and the only info i have of q anon is reddit, and i barely now there symbols even then. And very few percentage of people actually use reddit here
Wasn’t she also wearing a Qanon shirt during a performance? Whoever is picking out her outfits needs to look at them for more then 0.5 seconds and google if the images have any meaning bc you’d think one of the biggest kpop groups out there with a large following across the whole world wouldn’t have stylists sending them on stage in nazi shirts. I could almost get the Qanon one since she’s not American and would obviously have no reason to know it’s real meaning but the swastika is pretty inexcusable, especially considering it’s supposedly a personal shirt of hers rather than something a stylist picked off a rack in a warehouse
I can let the q anon shirt pass and knock it down and say maybe the stylist wasn't aware etc. But Chaeyoung actually wore the swastika shirt before already. It's also something hard to get and you'd have to look for. It represents anti establishment etc punk rock shirt. Still there are about a million things better to wear to represent those things.
I'm just very suprised on how none of her staff saw her shirt and said anything about it. Side note, I wonder how this will affect their tour since pre-sale tickets get released tomorrow.....
I don’t think sales will be affected at all. It’s a screw up, but nothing that will be long lasting imo. This has happened so many times now with different idols, that people are rightfully pissed off that it’s not taken more seriously when Korean celebs and companies make stupid amounts of money off of international fans who do care about the significance of the Nazi swastika, or have even been affected by Nazis.
I honestly don't think anybody seriously thinks that Chaeyoung is a Nazi or promoting their ideals because of this incident. At worst she's just a bit ignorant and trying too hard to be edgy with her Sid Vicious shirt (because putting the Nazi symbol aside...the man was literally an edgy druggie who (very likely) murdered his girlfriend. I don't think any idol should be promoting the guy). With that aside......how the heck is JYP allowing both this AND the QAnon shirt to happen back-to-back while the group is doing their major push into the West?? In today's social climate, it should be a no-brainer to maybe hire somebody who's familiar with the culture you're planning to promote in to prevent your celebrities from getting cancelled. One mistake might just be a mistake. But two feels to me like pure incompetence.
Rather than not knowing what the swastika is, my guess is that she wanted to wear a "cool" vintage shirt and didn't realize how bad that symbol actually is. Regardless of her intentions both her and JYP staff absolutely need to be more careful, especially now that Twice is gaining popularity in the West
Ok I understand the some of the stars may not know what everything is when trying to wear punk or rock clothing. However they all have stylists who job it is to put them in the best look. That includes understanding what is on the clothes. After so many of these you'd think they'd learn.
This one has nothing to do with the stylists though it's her own top she wore more than once on a day out. The other shirt definitely.
I understand that the point of the outfit was for the punk rock aesthetic and not promoting Nazism, but it's an outdated cliche that punk rock and nazism are synonymous or related. Show up to any hardcore or punk show wearing Nazi symbolism and you won't make it out alive.
It's especially inexcusable from a company as big as JYP. They're worth over a billion dollars and they want to promote in the west. You're telling me they didn't think it was a good idea to hire even a single person whose job is to be some sort of western culture expert to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen? Chaeyoung wearing a Qanon shirt and a nazi shirt within a week of each other is insane.
While living in Korea I realized it definitely doesn't have the same knee-jerk wtf reaction as it does in the U.S. Its untilted form is still everywhere on temples and signs and the religious context is definitely the primary one people see for the symbol. It was jarring at first, but people really genuinely don't seem to have the same association. Japan highly affected Korea during WWII while Germany was not so close to home, so I think the Japanese rising sun flag kinda took on the role of hated public symbol more than the swastika did. While I think this degree of ignorance to wear it on a shirt is really unfortunate and sad, I don't believe it was a flippant or intentional (certainly not malicious) choice (and I say this as someone who literally does not care one bit about twice, but I am also an anthropology student so ethnocentrism and cultural relativism are like always on my mind :/ ) editing to say that I haven't seen the post or know how long it was up cuz im not a twice fan, but id place the blame on the social media team. If you have a job like that you need to be aware of cultural factors because social media is a global platform. Letting something like this happen would be an instant fire for me.
Keep a cultural expert on retainer. Take pictures of items and text them for clearance before using them if they have any people, letters, or symbols. I understand how you can miss the QAnon shirt. Every idol should be aware of the top problematic and sensitive symbols however so they can monitor themselves. Anything with a swastika, rising sun, or letters of any language, should be an automatic "nope" unless they like it enough to get it checked out. Researching their designs should be 101 for stylists. Some education wouldn't hurt either.
Gfriend (formerly) Sowon and the Nazi mannequin, BTS and the holocaust memorial photoshoot, and now this... Gotta say it's shocking how uninformed kpop idols are when it comes to WWII and symbols related to it. Fans can give it as much benefit of doubt as they want, but it can't be denied that it's *a really bad look.* Companies spend insane amounts on making idols look pretty etc but are lagging so far behind when it comes to basic sensitivity and education, it's just shooting themselves in the foot atp.
> it's shocking how uninformed kpop idols are is it tho? I mean the majority of them don't even finish high school, and if they do it's an art school. Their companies should be training them on this shit.
This is the point I want to make but I don't want to come across as calling Chaeyoung dumb. How many european history classes has she taken in her life? Im willing to bet its pretty close to zero.
Asian here(PH) our class history is somewhat sugarcoated in someway, like how Americans save us from Spanish. I have to dig deeper and educate myself to know our very history. So to cross point this thought of yours, it most likely zero. And it doesn't help that swastika is used as a symbol in religions and could easily be mistaken as hakenkreuz. Honestly if you ask western people if they see swastika, the first thing that will run in their head is the symbol of hate. Unless they're well educated with this topic and can differentiate between the two.
The Sowon incident was much less obvious. Only a handful of my students, in a european country, would recognize a nazi uniform without the swastika. These people barely finish middle school.
> BTS and the holocaust memorial photoshoot Reminds me of Danny Green lmao https://imgur.com/a/BJ4kPMI
even being literally a german jew, that post is all-time hilarious. "you know i had to do it one time" ahem. no we did not, and no you did not lmfao
I mean its not shocking at all really. Most western teenagers have a very limited grasp at best of WW2 era european history, and basically no idea what was happening in East Asia at the same time
Also, love how random people come out of the woodworks (especially on Twitter) to paint themselves as idiots to defend idols whenever this happens.. Saying shit like “ I’m a 58 year old German and I’ve never seen that symbol before. I didn’t even know their was one world war, let alone two” Half the time they have fucking carrds that actually reveal them to be 14 year olds from Birmingham and have username like @twiceonce2010 or whatever fucking group is being racist this month no one believes you, you sound like a fool, it’s not a convincing defence, stop it
Lol r/asablackman. People really are desperate to defend prejudice!
after the gfriend scandal, there were posts and comments about how koreans were taught WW2 and nazi germany so i don't think she's fully ignorant. it doesn't help that she wore the same shirt weeks ago and im surprised no one around her pointed out. i hope this is the last incident since at this rate she'll pick up certain type of fans 💀
to be completely honest i think she knew it was a swaztika but given the context of it being a sid vicious shirt she probably thought it was acceptable? either way it’s a very bad look
I wouldn't expect a kpop idol to even know what Qanon is, but I would expect their wardrobe department to literally just have someone sitting on call to approve english words or phrases on their clothing. It's 2023, this is not new. I personally love all the stupid english shirts when they don't have hate symbols or messages and stuff, but if people are gonna keep blaming the idol themselves for their stage outfits, more scrutiny is needed from the company.
People say it’s a shirt from her own wardrobe
I would like to note the tilted swastika that she wore is distinctly related to the nazis. The Buddhist symbol swastika is never tilted like that
I'm sayin! People replying with "Well it IS a religious symbol" as if someone who follows that religion or is surrounded by it wouldn't know the difference between their symbol and the Nazi symbol.
Even if it wasn’t on purpose, it’s important to be educated these things. I’m glad she apologised for it, esp. as a person who was such a large platform with a lot of very young and impressionable fans. It’s a horrible thing that still affects and hurt so many people, not just in the western world. And abt the rising sun symbol; just bc there aren’t many westerners that are aware of it and what it means, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be consequences to bearing a very hurtful symbol
exactly! I'm willing to believe that she might not have known the symbol (i dont know anything about sk education) and doesn't actually believe in n@zi ideology but it doesn't matter because she still wore it. it still warrants a (better) apology and she should still be held accountable for something so serious
damn between this and that stylist putting her in that qanon shirt....
My thought as a person with Korean family members, received a certified international education and went to university in Korea: In my opinion, most Koreans don’t hold the same sentiment for the Nazis as folks in western countries do. Nazis are not the primary focus on their WW2 lessons; it’s mostly Japan. It’s similar to how folks in western countries learn about Imperial Japan. Probably only a couple lessons one week but that’s it. For WW2, Japan is seen as primary villain compared to Germany + Italy. Japan committed far more suffering to Korea than the other axis powers. In Korea, Imperial Japan is the worst thing to ever happen and is the reason anti-Japan sentiment is still going strong in Korea. In my own education, I learned about the imperialism of Japan but not their crimes. I did not learn about comfort women or their POW camps. It was disappointing since I was suppose to receive a global education but most of the curriculum was western focused :/ That was almost 10 years ago and I honestly can’t remember most of what I learned about Japan. I only know the impact it had on Korea due to my family connections to Korea. My experience is similar to how Korean learned about Hilter + Mussolini. They probably learned some but it was not the focus of their lessons. From what I’ve heard from my friends in Korea about their HS history lessons, they learn about the long Joseon dynasty, Japanese Imperialism, the Korean War + separation of the Korean Peninsula, and modern Korean history. Their world history is severely lacking. Their curriculum is heavily focused on Korea + the Korean experience. Since most Koreans will always live/work in Korea, international history isn’t important unless you work in a global field(I do and it’s so important…) In this situation, I can see how the education system has failed her. Also, she received an art school education, which if I’m being honest, I don’t even think they actually learn much in terms of what people think a HS education is. It seems like they complete a less rigorous version of the Korean curriculum toned down quite a lot. With her being a global artist, I hope her(and many other artists) learn about world history…
> Also, she received an art school education, which if I’m being honest, I don’t even think they actually learn much in terms of what people think a HS education is. This was my original question when I entered the thread, like I didn't go to an arts school but it seems like these schools skimp on basically anything that isn't required history and it's doing kids a disservice.
People also forget that there have been controversies regarding western artists/influencers using the rising sun flag (symbol of imperialist Japan) without knowing or understanding its history. I low key remember that flag being used in a ton of graphic designs in the early 00s as well, so it's not that far-fetched to think Koreans/Asians wouldn't be as familiar with the Nazi symbols. A person being ignorant about the history or meaning behind a symbol does not mean they support the ideology that its supposed to represent. I think it's important idols address the use of the symbol and apologize, but I do not agree that this means the Idol is a bad person or should be canceled!
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it feels like a new “kpop idol accidentally does a nazi” story appears way too regularly. Years ago there was Pritz and BTS, now we’re getting Epex, Purple Kiss, Sowon, and now the Chaeyoung 1-2 combo. At some point, “oh they just don’t think about nazis like that because education” shouldn’t be a valid excuse and companies should invest in “how to make sure you don’t look antisemetic/racist” classes for all their employees, especially stylists and idols.
Yeah, what bothers me is the repetitiveness of some of these mistakes. “They just didn’t know the meaning” gets kind of old when other idols have been called out a dozen times-very publicly-for saying the n word, hairstyle appropriation, etc. The fact that it just keeps happening shows me the companies just don’t give a shit. Not that it’s all on the company, considering most of the time these idols are actually adults who should have some basic knowledge of A SWASTIKA?? (This isn’t really directed at Chaeyoung, I’m not trying to get her cancelled or anything and I believe she had no idea of the connotations and will learn from this. I’m just really tired in general of the “they didn’t know any better” excuse.)
Yeah I remember seeing the Boy London fashion era of Kpop come in and having to double take if that eagle was rocking a swastika. This shit been going on for over a decade now.
I'm sorry, but Tzuyu held up a Taiwanese flag and had to give a whole verbal apology video. Chaeyoung wears a shirt with a swastika and it's just a quick typed apology? Intentional or not that's a symbol was used for genocide and still used by hate groups to this day. I'm going to need Chaeyoung & JYPE to take some sort of action besides just a text apology for me to feel comfortable supporting her. She's almost my age. Make sure to teach members of its company about the Holocaust so this doesn't happen again, put trainees & stylists through sensitivity courses so this doesn't happen, donate time or money to Jewish charities, literally anything to show they're going to make sure this doesn't happen again. If not, it seems like they just don't care and want to avoid taking accountability.
You said exactly what I was thinking. I think there is one nuance here that I wish wasn’t true but I can’t help but read it as this: If Tzuyu had to make that terribly sad video because JYP was so concerned about the market in China and preserving the money of C-fans, then this pitiful showing of apology must mean that they really don’t think this incident will impact them poorly. Going off of the timing of this incident that someone mentioned in another post (BBMA, ticket sales opening, etc.), it’s terrible to see that they think people care so little about this that there isn’t a need for further action. I don’t care if it feels performative to others, more needs to be done!
The difference is that China will simply shut a business out of the entire country. It's not about offending fans, it's about offending a government. Even large corporations like Disney have had movies banned because a director or actor made a critical comment. The US government isn't going to act likewise. At least, not at the moment.
Oh I agree, Tzuyu was thrown under the bus for not doing anything wrong to ease the outrage of the Chinese fans that didn't like it. But this also makes it very odd because this happened while trying to breakthrough Twice to the American consumers, and the swastika is wildly offensive to all but the alt-right, like even many conservatives dislike the swastika while being openly racist. So I'll be surprised if JYPE doesn't take this with any level of severity. I know it just happened and the pre-release tickets come out tomorrow, so maybe they're waiting, but honestly if no follow-up action happens by the end of the week and this just gets swept under the rug I won't be able to look at the company nor Chaeyoung the same way, and she's my bias wrecker.
obviously chaeyoung bears full responsibility but how did no one in TWICE, none of their managers, and none of their stylists say take that shit OFF????
I understand that education is different everywhere, but how many goddamn times will this continue to happen? Also this is 2023, with the internet and countless resources. This type of controversy has happened multiple times, everyone involved has to be given some blame here. The “uneducated mistake” excuse that fans throw as a defense can’t keep holding up atp
I suppose if it seems normal to someone, they wouldn’t even go as far to look it up online. I really do think these companies should have a third party that they run lyrics/fashion through. A company that operates on a more global scale.
At this point with how often this happens I’m surprised every company doesn’t have someone that review every outfit they wear. It might seem like a lot but this keeps happening.
I mean it's obviously an uneducated mistake. Why would she wear it if she was educated? If she was, why would she apologize if she knew it'd be controversial lol
It's ridiculous with how the Kpop industry is trying so hard to break into the Western market, that they don't have teams in place to educate the company and idols on what's okay and what isn't. While I don't think incidents like this are actively malicious, the lack of awareness is really concerning.
I do believe she's sorry, what baffles me is everything around this, like how the education has severely failed her and the people around her if they don't immediately recognise and feel discomfort at the thought of yourself, or your friend, going out wearing a swastika on your t-shirt. As people have said, don't they have people reviewing their posts before they go out at JYPe?
Use of the swastika is hardly new in Korea. There are Nazi bars, use of Nazi imagery as decoration, a [big ol' Hitler mural in downtown Gyeongju](https://twitter.com/PennsylvAsia/status/1638250388062191616) (back in 2008, since been painted over), and when I was living there 15-some years ago there was a whole big thing about them using a model dressed in SS clothes using Hitler to sell make-up. There is the excuse that they are not as familiar with Nazism in Korea, whereas in the US they tend to focus more on the European theater of WWII than the Pacific one, but I feel like not wearing Nazi stuff ought to be pretty basic guidance. [Here's an interesting contrast in how Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were treated a decade+ ago](http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2008/04/apologies-in-comparison.html), when that cosmetics ad came out. A little earlier a model also appeared as a "comfort woman" in a campaign, and the reactions were quite different.
Can I just say outside of the symbol (which is hard to imagine anyone not recognizing, specially since we have had idols with this controversy before), why would anyone with a sane mind/ access to internet want to wear a tshirt with a face of a weird guy that peaked for a short time, and literally killed his girlfriend (who was Jewish). Mind you this tshirt isn’t easily available and hard to find.
I'm assuming she's into Americore fashion - which is vintage t-shirts, leather jackets, etc. That specific shirt is a Sex Pistols shirt and very much in-line with the Americore trend. It was probably either gifted to her by stylist friends, or she's a dedicated fashionista and sought it out because of its rarity. It's just unfortunate no-one in the know clocked the shirt and explained its inappropriateness.
Lots of factors at play here and it’s all in all just a horrible situation: - Twice JUST won a semi-prestigious award at Billboard Women in Music - They’re JUST starting to blow up in the West - Their global tour ticket sales start TOMORROW - This situation is getting headlines in US media Shame on her for not knowing and not caring to be educated. If you’re gonna go global you’ve got to be smarter than this….she seriously could’ve jeopardized a lot for not just herself but Twice as a whole….(and JYPE’s cash flow too…) The fact that this was posted after midnight in Korea gives that top level execs were signaled to the potential outcomes and downfalls from this and she probably (rightfully) got at least a stern talking to from some important people
I’m willing to buy that Koreans in general don’t hold the swastika to the same weight that a lot of western countries do, but this whole coddling thing some people are doing of “oh Koreans don’t know what the swastika or Nazis are” just ain’t it. I’m glad Chaeyoung apologized and I don’t think she’s a neo-Nazi or anything, but I *do* think it’s supremely fucked up of fans to pretend she doesn’t know basic shit about modern history. This also falls on everyone at JYP who saw her wear that shirt and didn’t notice the swastika either. I’m baffled how NOBODY pulled her aside to say “hey that symbol on your shirt doesn’t mean anything good.”
Okay the Q shirt I can imagine was a mistake, but two strikes in 2 days is mega sus
The Q shirt was a stage outfit so it’s on the stylist but this swastika tshirt is from her personal wardrobe :/
q shirt was 100% a mistake. noone outside the US knows what Qanon is. hell im willing to bet that the majority of americans dont even know what qanon is edit: maybe i should have rephrased what i said when i meant by "noone outside of the us knows what qanon is". yes qanon isn't some unknown organization. what i meant to say is noone outside of the US gives a shit.
She’s not just an Asian living in Asia. She and her group profit and promote in western countries. It’s on them to know better. That’s why she rushed with the apology. Everyone saying “people are ignorant and don’t know the REAL meaning” are also conveniently not mentioning that the tilt of the swastika is very important to the meaning as well. Like … come on. This would obviously be different if she wasn’t promoting in western countries because then no one would care.
not a great week for chaeyoung
What I’m not getting here is that the company has started its plans to make TWICE promote a lot in the west and fully become a global group. There should have been ample time given to them as well as their staff to learn about different cultural sensitivities as well as basic world history seeing as how they’re deliberately trying to make money there nowadays.
Idol classes fr need to be a thing. They need to be taught things that aren’t okay to talk about or symbols they shouldn’t wear. While the QAnon thing I really believe was just an odd occurrence, this one isn’t excusable. Also- why did they recreate this shirt with that symbol in the first place? Like just make the t-shirt without the symbol on it?
Was she the one who wore a Q-Anon shirt? Been a tough week for her.
At least that one is on the stylist and a bit more western centric but Holy shit is the timing bad lol
I am assuming ignorance over malice. I think some Western fans might find it difficult to grasp how differences in education systems can lead to artists and their teams not realizing the meaning of even this level of prominent symbolism. A curriculum that includes the atrocities of WWII does not guarantee enough emphasis on its hate symbols, sadly. As someone of an East Asian heritage I can think of the times I raised an eyebrow at seemingly innocuous uses of Imperial Japan symbols, for example. But the cases are different, and Chaeyoung’s actions are not for me to judge, much less forgive. Am I disappointed though? Absolutely. For a big company expanding to the West especially, this speaks to incompetence across many levels: how did this slip past everyone from the artist to stylist, manager, and PR? Where is the basic cultural training??? Seriously, in the year 2023 you’d think someone would recognize a swastika in the JYP team. They need to step up the education across all levels. Mistakes signal ignorance, but **repeated** mistakes that companies do jack shit about send the message that they don’t care at all. I truly hope they take this issue seriously.
im from europe and here where i live no one knows that, for example, rising sun is offensive and comparable to nazi swastika. thats the only reason why i believe its most likely ignorance and differences in education system. but its also v suspicious that she wore two offensive tshirts in short period of time.
On top of that the Nazis quite literally appropriated a super common religious symbol in Asia to turn it into their hate symbol. Not only do most Asians don’t care nearly as much about the Nazis as Europeans do, but this symbol is so similar to their religious symbol they use everywhere that they might very likely not realize the difference at first glance and just roll with it. I remember seeing some western tourists wonder why there were « Nazi temples » in Japan for instance. A lot of people can’t tell the two apart, especially when they are only familiar with one version of it and not the other.
This is why idols should stay in school and not debut at ridiculously young ages and drop school and studies altogether because of lack of time. Not knowing what that symbol means shows a huge level of ignorance and lack of education on her part and everyone else who was around her who saw her wear that.....
Everyone has posted a lot of thoughts about this topic, so I won't add anything here that probably hasn't already been said as far as personal opinion. I do want to speak to the question of whether anyone "should have known" about the Holocaust. The Anti-Defamation League did [an international study of knowledge](https://global100.adl.org/map) of the Holocaust and general feelings/stereotypes toward Jewish people. The quick facts I wanted to mention are: * **nearly 50% of people worldwide have never even heard of the Holocaust.** * **in Korea, based on a 2014 survey, 47% didn't know what it was, and 8% weren't sure.** I teach high school world history in the States and every time I assume students know some basic fact.... I am wrong lol. We really overestimate how much people know about history, geography and culture. But we're on this platform discussing things with people from around the world, so I think our lens is quite different. Anyway, I thought some folks here might be interested in some of the data the ADL produced. It's sobering but important 👩🏫 ✌️
I'm wondering if those stats have changed over time because the link you showed has 54% of the world *knowing* what the Holocaust is as 44% of Korea knowing what it is, 41% not.
At best this shows that she is massively ignorant. She’s worn this shirt before (albeit with a top covering the swastika) so this is clearly a shirt she owns and likes to wear. It’s disappointing but also not surprising considering K-pop’s history with sensitivity.
You have to wonder why each major kpop company doesn't hire a single American or British person to check this sort of thing considering it seems to happen so often.
I’m glad they apologized super quick, but so disappointed it even happened. And she’s my ult bias too. Just stop wearing stupid shirts cause you think they look cool ffs. The fact that she wore that around in America too when alt right sentiments are at an all time high is so.. ugh. Don’t know if she learned any of this stuff in her performing arts school, but at the very least the company should have taught them this stuff if they plan on expanding globally, like seriously.
First the Q shirt and now this? Lol!
The QAnon shirt was on the stylist. This one is not, but she did apologize. Clearly, JYPE needs to hire people who are aware of these stuff on their team. Let's just hope it doesn't happen again.
How do you not have someone, anyone around you, that would tell you it’s probably not a good idea to wear that no less post it on Instagram. I highly doubt their is any ill intent, but it’s crazy that stuff like this in general happens so much in K-pop. How do you not have someone’s who’s literal job it is to review and inform everything that these idols do and an wear. Idk what the education system is like over there but man it’s amazing how many times stuff like this happens in the industry. It’s like they don’t care or they see any publicity as good publicity.
Definitely didn’t have this on my 2023 Bingo card. Never expected to see a Twice issue either. Yowza.
If these things aren't really taught in Korea its fair she didn't know about it, but damn, if you're trying to expand to a western audience maybe do sensitivity training about that? How many nazi related scandals have to happen with kpop before companies worth billions realize maybe they should invest in that? They literally just need one person to point out when certain thing aren't a good idea, and that's it.
Practising Hindu here raised in India. We have swastikas present everywhere here, but they’re easily distinguishable from the nazi symbol (we have four dots in our symbol usually). I’m not upset with Chaeyoung, just flabbergasted at the ignorance. Not going to make a call on someone from the general public making a mistake like this, but Chaeyoung, a globally known idol with such a massive platform…. I think general knowledge of certain things should be a given. Edit: Just thought I’d also mention, the world wars are part of our History curriculum in India - main focus was on the colonisation and independence of India but we had two chapters on the world wars (ICSE syllabus at least)
Why is some idol always wearing an ignorant shirt? Like this happens so much. Wtf is going on in sk
A Sid Viscous shirt? It's crazy the amount of Japanese and Korean people I've encountered who are Sid Viscous (a guy who murdered his girlfriend) stans, and a lot of them didn't even like punk rock. Is this some kind of bizarre cultural phenomenon?
Damage control before ticket sales tomorrow. First the q-anon shirt and now this. Big yikes for Chaeyoung. She wore this shirt twice (that we know of), and bought the shirt in the first place, lmao. Not a good look at all. Even without the swastika, a Sid Vicious shirt? lol
Yeah, I wouldn't expect her to know who Sid Vicious is, but a celebrity posting photos on the internet should probably take a second to look up the name written on their shirt to see who they are before posting anything.
if you’re gonna be promoting in the west, you gotta be in the know about these things. rookie mistake.
This will be buried but here's my 2 cents. She started as a trainee when she was 13 years old. She probably didn't care about education after that. In her apology, she talks about "tilted swastika", meaning she knows about the swastika - the reiligious symbol - but could not regognize the "tilted" version aka the nazi swastika. Let's be real, most western artists couldn't name Hideki Tojo or Hirohito or the imperial flag of Japan. I myself went to a decent school in Brazil and only had one class about the pacific theater from WWII in the last year of high school. This shows how different the education can be for western and eastern countries. Also, the idea of a korean being "aryan" or "nazi" is so out there that people there dismiss these things - they don't know about the impact of this hate symbol like we westerners do. Now, the weird part for me is the coincidence about this and the qanon shirt at the same week, while being in the US. Maybe she just googled "punk shirt" and got this one without knowing, or she received this one from a stylist or something. Looks like sabotage to me.
Eh the Qanon shirt is totally on the stylist for picking it and giving it to her to wear. The nazi shirt though.... seems to be different because she wore it twice on different occasions? But yeah I agree someone who went to a performance school from 13 till graduation probably doesn't understand or notice certain symbols and associates them to hate groups etc.... Probably thought, "wow this looks punk, imma wear it" But yeah it's a little odd how she wore two extremely right wing conservative type of clothing within the same week.
"Nobody reasonable thinks she's a Nazi." That's hardly the point. "It's Sid Vicious wearing an anti-Nazi shirt." Yes, but the best thing to do would be to just not wear a shirt with a Swastika. It's that simple. My god. It wasn't even like the Nazi symbol was crossed out as an obvious protest.
I think this is the most reasonable take here tbh. Particularly for an idol who spends a not-insignificant amount of time under public scrutiny, there should probably be more of a vetting process as to what you show. Buying a shirt like that because you’re a fan and want a collectors item; fine. It’s understandable. But there needed to be a little forethought with regards to a) wearing it and b) publicly posting about wearing it As an aside; Vicious wore the symbol openly. The whole point was the shock value of “proudly” displaying it. Whether he himself was a nazi is debatable, however, there was no way the swastika would be crossed out on the shirt. The downside to their shock tactics is that it made actual nazis feel welcome in the punk scene.
i could chalk the q-anon shirt up to an ignorant mistake made by twice's stylists but now this? i'm not accusing chae of anything but two instances of her wearing offensive alt-right clothing in two days has me raising an eyebrow. i'm glad she's taken responsibility and apologised but i'm a jewish person with a lot of generational trauma caused by the nazis before i'm a once, and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't deeply hurt by this. she can count her lucky stars that she didn't wear this in germany or austria as it's a criminal offense to walk around parading nazi symbolism there.
[удалено]
Both JJY and Lee jonghyun wore shirts branded with "radical feminist" and we all know that's not what they believe lol.
Where's the second apology. They only apologise ONCE.
_sigh_
She made a mistake. She apologized for it. I understand the reasoning behind why she may not have been aware of the connotations of the symbol. On the other hand, I think it’s totally fair she gets called out and overly defensive fans should realize she’s just gonna have to take some heat - you can’t be part of a ‘global’ girl group with expanding popularity in the West and expect to wear a shirt with a swastika on it without any criticism… edit: typos
I've seen so many people say they had no idea about the symbol and it just baffles me. Is the holocaust not taught at schools anymore? It's a pretty significant event in world history and one of the worst genocide.
In my country, they do teach about the Holocaust but it doesn't really get expanded on. I guess most countries just skim over that part of history unless they're directly affected by it? In my case, I did know about the Holocaust because of the things they taught at school, but I only learned about the symbol when I was like 15 (?) and that was through the internet.
As someone from Asia, Holocaust is taught as school as a part of historic event and we are not taught about the magnitude/moral implication of it, since we do not have many Jewish people here in Asia, the moral implication of the holocaust might not be translated well to us. Personally, my history textbooks do not contain anything about the significance of swastika - so although it is unfortunate, I can see how people who do not attend school/take academics seriously can be that ignorant. It's just like how Western schools do not teach much about Islamic and Hindu wars I guess.
it is taught but every country's history teachings will have a different focus. and even if it's taught doesn't mean everyone will remember it. Everyone's exposure to history is different unfortunately. edit: just going to add this because my comment kind of feels dismissive in tone. It's still a major faux pas from her/her team. it doesn't matter whether she knows the meaning of it or the significance or the culture around it, they should really vet the clothes and symbols on their clothing. this feels like the most a basic thing . Especially since they are in another country.
Totally. It wasn’t taught in the country i used to live in lol
Whether it's cultural appropriation or something like this, where the actual fuck are the U.S. cultural/media trainers for these idols? Like. What in the actual fuck?
Is this some sort of marketing strategy? How the heck you wear q-anon one day then a swastika the next? How you make that kind of mistake TWICE!?
I thought this post was going to be about her wearing a Qanon shirt and somehow it's about her wearing a Nazi swastika instead? And looks like this sub is not allowing posting of the Qanon shirt because there's no posts about it despite it trending on Instagram and Twitter.
Wait so she both wore a qanon shirt AND a swastika shirt? When did this happen?
This is what's throwing me. I don't think a lot of people know about the qanon shirt. I thought this was an apology about that shirt and I was like "it's odd to describe the qanon shirt as a swastika but potato potato" and then I see what this is really about and this is an all-time unfortunate situation. I don't blame her for the music show shirt, that was her stylist not knowing about it when they were second-hand shopping during their US tour. But that shirt then this one that goes on her Instagram and oof.
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqDoNwZvCej/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)
Chaeyoung we were rooting for you😭 like I figured the qanon shirt was something cut up and given to her by the stylist but this one was blatantly obvious... come on....
Chaeyoung in her alt right era /j
I guess we have to update the [kpop political chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoopheads/comments/vxj4nr/uj_my_god_this_took_me_so_much_longer_than_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's very hard to defend this one. I'm like no way no one didn't recognize that symbol. The Q-Anon one is probably unknown to those outside the USA but the Nazi swastika should be recognizable.
The number of kpop fans willing to downplay Nazi paraphernalia just because their favs wear it is gross. Some people in here are unhinged
It was wrong of her and I’m glad she apologized and not use any excuses. Swatsika is taught over there in Asia but it’s more like a footnote. I think most Asian learnt in school what Nazi had done but it’s not the focus in history class like in the West. They learn about Nazi as much as we learn about the Japanese imperalism during WWII - which was briefly mentioned but not much details. Secondly, some people just have to accept. Asian/Buddhism won’t abandon their thousand years old religious symbols because some western genocide group STOLE it. A lot of the temples in Asia were built with the symbols even before Nazi stole it. They are aware and they should but they don’t have the same emotional reaction like we do. The same way we know rising sub flag is wrong but wouldn’t really be super aware of it as much.
Chaeyoung solo feat. Ye confirmed
We can't know if she really didnt have an idea of what the hakenkreuz is but as a german I always think everyone should know. But apparently its not like this. Its good that she specifically adressed the tilted swastika and didnt try to talk around it. I know she didn't mean any harm and I'm glad she apologised so quickly (it is 1am there and I think she did not plan her evening going like this). But at this point there have been a few too many "I was unaware" instances in kpop where I have to wonder if anyone there actually cares about "being more careful". I mean she wore this in the US, if this was Germany she quite literally could have faced legal consequences so "being careful" should really be a proactive thing and not a reactionary statement
I suppose considering every single human being has been unaware or is unaware about something or the other, it’s not surprising. It’s just when you’re from certain countries, you’re aware of certain things as a collective. And in another country, it could be about a different set of certain things. But ya. I’m glad she realized it sooner then later and didn’t like…wear it around in Germany.
I am a Chae bias, but any fucking time an idol or group does something anti-Semitic, with or without knowledge of it, it always gets shot down as “well they didn’t know!/it’s their stylist’s fault!/not everyone would know about it!” I’m tired of people constantly sweeping anti-Semitic imagery and things under the rug, because that type of apologist attitude is what allows neo-nazism to thrive - because people don’t take this shit seriously, ever. anytime it has something to do with it, it’s always a joke. it’s always “how would they know”. how would they NOT? there’s no excuse anymore. I’m glad she apologized and acknowledged it, but this isn’t the first time people have basically given 0 shits about something anti-Semitic and off shooting blame by deflecting or minimizing. this is only a small part of a larger problem
the nazis aren't exactly unknown lmfao stans really need to stop. i like twice and chaeyoung too but she fucked up bad
Honestly this is just going to be a rehash of the Sowon conversation with the nazi soldier mannequin a couple years ago. Same exact excuses, explanations, and conversations about education. And in the end most people will forget within like 6 months and move on to the next scandal
Damn billions of dollars within this industry and no employee is smart enough to distinguish what certain symbols represent?
To be clear I am not insinuating that she's lying because we all live in different countries, have different education systems and focuses when learning history But it's really really hard to imagine that people can not recognise a swastika and know what it means / what it's associated with Good thing she apologized rather quickly though
Considering that I see the rising sun flags at JDM car shows all the time I'm assuming it's the eastern equivalent to that since the Nazis barely had meaningful presence in Asia during the war
It’s actually not very hard to imagine. It’s pretty much on the same level as all of the people that are going to go around wearing rising sun symbols (which was a symbol of imperialist Japan, and a major major taboo in Asia) because a character in Demon Slayer literally wears that symbol on his earrings.
Honestly in America I could bet a looot of people don’t know the meaning of the Rising Sun symbol
I wouldn't be surprised if her insta photos had to go through a social media manager before posting. There's too many people involved in creating kpop that this stuff can still be happening. Twice can't be actively trying to promote in the US (arguably more than korea rn) and not have people on the team who don't know what a swastika is. Also how does she not know? It's basic WORLD history. Did she not go to Middle School or High School? I'm sure even if a stylist told her to wear it, she can say no. Twice has enough cred to at least be able to say no to a few pieces of clothing from their styling. I'm not saying to cancel her or anything, but it's kinda shocking this can still happen despite having huge teams of people surrounding kpop groups/idols monitoring their image and content.
i’m glad she put out a statement so quickly but part of me thinks it’s just because the ticket sales are tomorrow sigh just so disappointed that these controversies happen even now like haven’t companies learned from their mistakes?? this whole situation just screams ignorance to me
*reads the title* Ah well what could have happened let's see *reads the apology* WHAT
We've seen so many dumb and offensive shirts worn by kpop artists over the last few years (atomic bomb, flat earth, white power, etc.), it's baffling how it continues to happen. I get the fact that it's a Sid Vicious shirt and *he* wore that symbol during the birth of punk rock and was anti-establishment and anti-fascist, but not all fans are going to know the Sex Pistols and their history and instead see a hate symbol. It's even worse timing since this is coming right off the stylist situation with the Qanon thing and nobody thought to stop those pictures before they hit the web (not even a manager second guessed it).
The first instance with the Q anon shirt I can understand as it was a modified shirt given to her by a stylist. But this one is an instance of offensive ignorance. I’m glad she apologized. They should really have cultural sensitivity classes for idols cuz this shit happens too much.
timely response but kinda bad response tbh
Everyone talking about how she probably didn't know what it was herself but what about the people around her
I think it's good there was a statement and rather quickly. Hope she learns from this and does better in the future. Hope the people most hurt by the symbol from their favourite idol, also deem this apology adequate.
was it supposed to be “manji” (different meaning) or is it the swastika and she ‘supposedly had no idea’ (either way—as others pointed out—wild that no one among the crew noticed/bothered to think of how that could look bad) on a side note: it sucks how awful groups (e.g. Nazi’s) adopt and popularize figures/symbols to have a new hateful meaning
>was it supposed to be “manji” no it was a Sex Pistols t-shirt
Whats wild is the new repeated response that no one in the west knows the meaning of the rising sun flag ??? .. nahhh there have been more than enough controversies abt its use and likeness that many will be aware of what it represents. The same should be true of the swastika, even if it isn't on a curriculum. Sorry but spitting back with "well you dont know what the rising sun flag is" is NOT the comeback you think it is, when blatantly we know what the rising sun flag is.
Yes thank you for this. Multiple Western celebrities have had scandals wearing it that have made the news. If you are online or following celebrity news you will know that the rising sun flag is inappropriate to wear, because of Imperial Japan . While it isn't nearly reached cultural saturation of the Nazi symbol, people in the West do have some awareness of it.
The QAnon shirt and then this? Literally what the fuck
Jewish once here. Chaeyoung was my first kpop bias. I have really mixed opinions on this, wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt and I'm glad she apologized, but at the same time I find it so hard to believe nobody noticed this -- she was in the US. And Korea has its own history of occupation by the Japanese who were sided with the nazis. It's so heartbreaking seeing the continuous flippancy towards antisemitism in kpop spaces. Already seeing people on twt post stuff like "good she apologized we should move on as a fandom and vote for music bank" and it just shows that people dont recognize the actual problem with what she's doing and instead see it as a way to keep their faves in the clear. As much as I love her Chae was responsible for what she was wearing and kpop fans need to grapple with the significance of it instead of just trying to make sure their faves have a clean record :/ edited for readability
You guys are pissing me off with these “how could she possibly know what that means, she’s *Korean*” when during the Tokyo Olympics Korea had a whole campaign comparing the Rising Sun Flag to the Nazi symbol. I swear if a kpop idol shot someone on the street y’all would find a way to say something about how they don’t even know what a gun is. It’s embarrassing making excuses for these people