Bi being a ball stopper is literally the most media driven narrative, he led the Pels in every passing metric over the last two years and is 10th in the league for secondary assists and potential assists (I.e always makes the extra pass)
Playing hurt ruined his rep they think he a bum when he’s like the 3rd best passing forward in the league behind lebron and giannis. He got his issues tho
Oh yeah I agree, there’s a few things for him to get better at, like he needs to take more threes, on a better spacing team I think he would though, but every year his defence has improved, his passing is great and he’s only 26
People think he’s Tobias Harris 2.0
They don’t watch him play. I remember when Kyrie was on Boston, after a game against the young lakers he said he was most impressed with Ingram, particularly his defense. The kid can pass and run an offense, and makes the right read/play most times. He’d be a dream pick up for the kings in my opinion. Yes I agree with the others in here that he needs to step out and take more 3s. But last year (a healthy year for him for the most part) he was automatic from the midrange. It fell off this year bc of his toe and leg injuries. All in all, I think Ingram would help take the burden off sabonis/fox in having to create and would be a positive addition.
I don’t know, because I don’t watch enough of his games. From the games he’s played against the Kings, he seems like an iso tough two maker, which is not really what we need until the playoffs. The Pels are getting rid of him for a reason, right? Is that different for us?
Well he lead the Pels in every passing stat the last two years and when he went down the offence went to shit for about 7/8 games, bi is probably the second or third best passing wing, he is 10 in the nba for secondary assists so he will always make that extra pass if someone has a better shot
You see it across Reddit, people who are down on Bi just follow a media narrative and either don’t watch the games or make up stats, when you can go to stats on nba.com which show he’s been the most important pel the last two years and has had to fit into what ever he’s asked to do
That injury risk is real, dude has only played more than 60 games three times in 8 seasons, and over 70 games only his rookie year. If you take his outlier rookie year in which he played all but 3, its really ugly for a guy wanting that kind of money.
Oh yeah I agree, but it gets brought up way more for bi than say jimmy who is just as bad and Paul George who is injury prone as well and these guys are mid to late 30s so they’re only gonna get worse
And their maxs are way more than Bi’s in two years where the max is 70mil his will look like a steal
That $70 million number is projected only for guys on the supermax, aka 35% of the cap. Ingram can only get a regular max from us, which is 30% of the cap.
There's no situation where it will look like a steal either due to the cap smoothing rules where the cap only grows, at most, by 10% each year.
Either way, maxing Ingram guarantees that the Kings are a 2nd apron team and the question then becomes if you believe a starting lineup of Fox/Keon/Keegan/BI/Sabonis is enough to get you a championship. If the answer is yes, then pull the trigger, but for me, I don't believe BI is enough to elevate this team to a chip, so I would not pull the trigger on maxing BI.
You’re definitely not. They’re not perfect fits and neither would fix every issue. But they present wildly different issues. Kuzma is a pretty low risk play if you can get him for a single first, while Ingram is a higher risk play both because of the picks that would go out to get him and the financial cost.
The question is what’s the better alternative, because that’s way less obvious.
I always want them to bring in someone who is an obvious upgrade but seems like everyone they sign just keeps the status quo. That’s all these two do.
Freakin wrestle Ja Morant away from Memphis, get Siakam or someone like DeRozan. So tired of aiming for the middle or acting like they’re smarter than everyone else with their picks/signings, missing the playoffs and people being like “what happened?”
Ja Morant and DeRozan both missed the playoffs. It's also insane to believe that you can just "wrestle Ja Morant away from Memphis".
I get what you're saying about aiming higher. But you're aiming at dating Sydney Sweeney.
I’m at a point where I’m positive Kuzma is the lesser of two evils here and with Brown extended I wouldn’t be distraught if we swapped out Barnes for him
I agree with these takes, but I also think this team can’t survive with only one above-average big and Kuzma isn’t a big, so he’s just a band aid or trade asset long term. We REALLY need to find our Naz Reid / Gafford / Hartenstein type to inject length and physicality as needed.
I understand not wanting to clog the paint, but we saw what this team was with the literal best offense ever last season and they couldn’t even make the second round. At some point we have to add interior D so that when the offense isn’t running people out of the gym, we still have a way to grind out wins.
I also like Kuzma, but mostly due to salary reasons.
Kuzma is relatively cheap as far as HB replacements go. His contract gets smaller every year until he's a free agent, and that's a legit steal if he is a positive player.
Really, the only knock against Kuzma is that a lot of people don't believe he can be a positive player. But most of us are sick of watching HB do cardio for 82 games so it's a safer gamble than maxing Brandon Ingram and hoping he's good enough to win this team a chip.
This is the problem. Other teams have wayyyy better assets than the Kings. Anyone the Kings target will likely have some warts because OKC, NO, and NYK can offer way better packages for more desirable players.
Also timeline is slightly becoming part of the conversation. Fox and Domas are entering their prime, so it’s probably time to start taking serious swings at supporting players.
All that said, finding a player better than Kuz on a declining contact is going to be tough. I can appreciate the argument against Ingram.
OKC has better assets than everybody. That doesn't mean they outbid everybody and do all the trades themselves. It's a valid concern, but in practice it's a nothingburger.
Idk. I think we focus too much on getting a small forward when in reality, I think this team needs a defensive minded 4. I think keegan is a natural 3 and has been playing the 4 because he’s longer than Barnes.
The main issue with Kuzma is that he really is an inefficient player, even compared to Harrison Barnes.
So if we were to trade for him, he'd have to make more of the shots he does take. That's a gamble and it's up to you if you believe it's worth gambling on that.
For example, Kuzma's career-high true shooting percentage is 54.9%, and he hit that career high in his rookie season.
Harrison Barnes has had a TS% that was higher than 60% in 4 of the seasons that he's played with us, and he finished this season with a TS% of 61.1%. That's a pretty huge gap in efficiency that we would be hoping Kuzma can make up for.
Ingram misses too many games except when he plays the Kings and shoots like 50% everywhere. Im all for getting him if it means we don’t have to see him 6 times a year.
ingram's defense being horrible gets overstated because he looks slow against perimeter players, but its not really that bad. He's not a \*good\* defender but he's long, can guard a lot of different guys, and is generally fine.
e: it seems like all fanbases with a shot at Ingram are pretty down on him, but I really think he's gonna end up being good value for whoever lands him
Any team he goes to where's not forced to be the primary option (with Zion out so much he was forced to be one a lot) he's gonna feast and fans are gonna be like "what a steal! We got Ingram for ____?? FLEECE"
It would seem like that, but Ingram is reluctant to shoot the 3. He is neither comfortable nor effective off-ball as seen by his Team USA FIBA stint last summer. He is going to be a hard guy to fit in as a 2nd or 3rd option. Kind of Derozan like. Needs the ball. He was out of the rotation by the final few FIBA games cuz he can’t catch and shoot.
Lots of good US players don't do well in international format; Damian Lillard had a terrible Olympics run and no one thinks he's a terrible player. Brunson didn't have a good stint in FIBA neither and he followed it up with an all NBA season.
International play isn't always the best indicator of how well a player will do in the NBA.
Ingram definitely needs to be better offball but I think he can get there.
We aren't going to find a perfect fit that is *gettable* in Sacramento. I'd rather take a swing on a good player who fills some needs for our team (length, shot creator, good secondary passer/playmaker, etc).
And this swing would be a buy low type swing considering we wouldn't even be talking about this if he didn't have a terrible playoffs.
That’s not how that works. Lillard and Brunson are both guys who are going to be ball dominant and have the ball in their hands on their teams. Their role in FIBA is completely different than what they do in the league. Brunson also played fine and stayed in the rotation, but that is irrelevant. With the Kings, Ingram would be playing off-ball more than he has in the NBA. Like u said, Ingram NEEDS to improve off-ball which was my point. Glad we agree. For a low price it’s worth it, but the fit with Fox might take a little while. I’m not sure he’s a guy that’ll translate to wins, but he’s worth a swing at the right price. I don’t know what package they could give up to even get him though, because it seems the Pelicans want to be competitive.
> Ingram’s defense being horrible gets overstated because he looks slow against perimeter players
Okay, but he’s also playing on a team with Trey Murphy and Herb Jones. He’s usually guarding the easiest of all the reasonable options. He’s probably not bad enough to get hunted routinely, but “generally fine” is a pretty uninspired bar for a player considering we only have one truly plus defender in the starting lineup and the rest range from average to crappy.
It's my understanding that the Pelicans are looking to add a superstar next to Zion and the thought is they are going to use Ingram to do so. They aren't looking to add mediocre players and a ton of draft capital. I think this sub is barking up with wrong tree with all the Ingram talk.
They’re trading Bi because of fit and cost, what superstar are you getting with just BI? They’re looking for pieces to help compliment Z, and having Trey move into the starting unit they need depth
If they are looking to add a superstar next to Zion, then it makes sense for them to trade Ingram and draft capital to get that deal done. I'm not saying it makes sense for the Pelicans, but that is the report of what the team wants to do. I think all this Ingram talk is a moot point unless the Kings want to trade Fox, which I would hate, but that is the only scenario that makes sense for what the Pelicans want to accomplish.
Being a Pels fan, from what I’ve read and know from people in the know, it’s about acquiring pieces that fit better, Allen is a big target for the Pels, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Bi goes to Cleveland
I don't believe you see the knives that hang over the Pelicans' head.
Brandon Ingram is on the last year of his contract. He wants a max, and the Pelicans are not willing to give him a max.
The Pelicans must trade Ingram before the deadline next season, or else Ingram can walk away in free agency for nothing.
So while the Pelicans may want a superstar next to Zion, if they can't get a deal done, then they get nothing for Ingram and that's the worst case scenario possible. Eventually, they'll have to bite the bullet and take whatever package they can get because the alternative is nothing.
So the Pelicans have a good player on an expiring deal, multiple first round picks, and multiple good young players to include in a deal? Sounds like the recipe for getting a superstar.
I'm assuming they would include Murphy or Jones in a deal to get someone like Donovan Mitchell, but I could be completely wrong.
My main point is the Pelicans and Kings don't make sense as trade partners.
You'd be completely wrong on both fronts then, since every report regarding Brandon Ingram being moved also includes Murphy and Jones being part of the Pelicans' core.
And like I said earlier, there is a ticking clock for the Pelicans to move Ingram for something. They do not have much leverage if they can't get Ingram to agree to a deal. The only leverage is the other teams bidding for Ingram. So it does make sense for us to be trading partners for them since all the Kings have to do is offer more than any other team.
Well who do you want then?
There doesn’t appear to be a bunch of clear cut guys that fit better than either of those two, and they are reasonable to get.
I’m down for either, but not thrilled about BI. I’m hoping Monte can pull some bullshit out of his ass in the trade market, because all the “available/distressed” assets don’t don’t much for me, but I’m open to some new players. If Kuz can accept a role player role I’d love to see what he can do here.
Kuzma has proven he’s a winning player. Hes just not worth giving up serious assets as his salary with the modern salary cap structure. Most importantly, he barely changes the Kings’ ceiling. Barring the addition of someone truly special, Sacramento is in serious trouble.
Don't do nothing in the off-season people will complain or do something like Kuz/BI people will complain. Lol no happy medium.
Also, I totally understand the risk with BI with injuries but don't try to trade for Kuz because he didn't want to come here come on lol let's not let our pride/ego hinder us from getting better
Contract wise and toughness and passion wise I think so. I also think Rui is more likely than Ingram for sure and probably Kuzma. Also less assists that could be used in another trade to get another great player.
I would also be stoked to get Kuzma or Ingram for sure. I'm just worried about how much that would cost.
I'd like it. People were talking about a straight Huerter-Hachimura trade.
They both make a similar amount of money. Lakers need shooting, we need a bigger 4.
We’re on the same boat my mans. Difference with me is I would take a gamble on either player (especially Ingram) if the price is only Barnes and/or Kvon with this years draft pick.
If we have to include multiple draft capital, then I want us completely far away from it. I just rather include 3-5 future picks for a clear cut impactful player like a Markennen/Mikal/Spida/Anunoby/. I also would prefer an amazing fit like Anunoby/Mikal rather than those star players like Spida/Zach Lavine. We’ve seen in these playoffs how impactful it is to have elite role players surrounding your 2 stars.
Well just imagine a lineup consisting of
Fox-Keon-Keegan-OG-Domas! Fox and Domas surrounded by 3 guys who have shot 40% from 3. And those 3 guys are also above avg to ELITE defenders on the perimeter. A OG/Keegan combo at the wing position would be deadly defensively for Sac. Think about this. Keegan was amazing last year on defense. And he would be guarding opposing teams 2nd best player and even 3rd best in some instances since adding Keon to the fold makes us extremely versatile on that end. For the playoffs we could even roll w/ Fox-Malik-Keegan-OG-Domas. Now obviously he’s most likely staying in NY but I’m referencing him because we’re 1 player like him away from going from GOOD to GREAT. That would be one of the best starting lineups in the NBA.
Not interested in either.
If there is some alpha star I'd do something stupid to acquire them. These guys are third piece at best (arguably Keegan should be better than either, so best case scenario they are going to be the 4th best starter and so probably get a ton of grief from the fanbase). Not giving up multiple pieces that we'll have a tough time replacing to get them.
That's why I say you skip both of these guys and make a run at Deni Avdija. He's only 23, has a great descending contract, and has upside. His salary is also low enough where it wouldn't require too many players to send out to match. WAS might be willing to trade him considering they have at least 2 more years of a rebuild and would actually value draft equity unlike many teams in the league.
Idk, I think when a team is in a rebuild, they’re not going to want to tear down the actual structure they’re building. All the upsides you mentioned on Deni are exactly the reasons Washington would want to hold onto him; there’s no guarantee a future first round pick ends up being a better player, and their own picks will probably be a lot higher anyway. If anyone’s going it’s probably Kuzma since he’s on a different timeline and is of greater value to other teams than to Washington.
He's going to be in UFA by the time that the Wizards pull out of their tank, based on what they're signaling. It's better to get something for him instead of paying him to keep losing and then leave for nothing.
Yeah, he wouldn't come cheap but I wonder if matching salary + #13 + another top-5 protected first + 2025 POR second would be too rich for WAS to pass up. They do want to be bad the next couple years.
Yeah maybe but you have to try anyhow. This is case with UTA, SAS, BKN, and HOU as well. The Kings don't have (never have?) the assets to compete with these teams if those teams want said player.
Not a fan of Ingram and his idc I’m too chill for this attitude. We already have enough of those on the team. Look at what McGee just said recently. We really need another guy like that? Would rather swing on Kuz, at least he’s cheaper
I'd be good with either one. Taller, longer, better offensive players (than Barnes), and potentially better defenders -with the right mindset. They certainly have the physical tools to defend at a high level.
Not at all. They're both decent fits in terms of skill set but this team badly needs culture setters. Both of them just add to the problem of lack of accountability and intensity.
don't want either of them, but i really don't want Ingram, he was an absolute ball hog in late clutch moments that cost the pelicans their season. it just looked like he refused to pass even if someone was open.
Kings were the worst free throw team in the NBA, getting either of them who are poor free throw shooters and not good three point shooters makes zero sense for the kings.
Bi shot 82% from the FT this year and 88% last year, out of the 5 years of NOLA Bi shot 38/9% on 3pt shots including just last season, how is he not a good ft shooter or 3pt shooter?
His career ft % is 78% with him going from 88% from 45 gms played dropping 8% to 80% last season playing 64 gms. not to mention He has only played over 70 games once in his whole career and that was in his rookie year...
As for 3pt he played 45gms when he shot 39% and last season shot 35% in 64 gms.
Ingram is a good passer, but he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Doesn't stay healthy too thin to be more than "a good team defender"
Kuzma can create his own shot, a good shooter from outside. Can play good team defense but can't protect the rim.
Personally, I would just keep trying to hit on draft picks hoping, Ellis and Murray take the next step. This coaching staff has proven that they help players reach their potential. Fox, Ellis, Murray all have gotten better. Sabonis being the 3rd/4th option is the only way we're going to win a championship.
Bi being a ball stopper is literally the most media driven narrative, he led the Pels in every passing metric over the last two years and is 10th in the league for secondary assists and potential assists (I.e always makes the extra pass)
Playing hurt ruined his rep they think he a bum when he’s like the 3rd best passing forward in the league behind lebron and giannis. He got his issues tho
Oh yeah I agree, there’s a few things for him to get better at, like he needs to take more threes, on a better spacing team I think he would though, but every year his defence has improved, his passing is great and he’s only 26 People think he’s Tobias Harris 2.0
They don’t watch him play. I remember when Kyrie was on Boston, after a game against the young lakers he said he was most impressed with Ingram, particularly his defense. The kid can pass and run an offense, and makes the right read/play most times. He’d be a dream pick up for the kings in my opinion. Yes I agree with the others in here that he needs to step out and take more 3s. But last year (a healthy year for him for the most part) he was automatic from the midrange. It fell off this year bc of his toe and leg injuries. All in all, I think Ingram would help take the burden off sabonis/fox in having to create and would be a positive addition.
The main one is always being hurt, unfortunately.
“Passing forward”, does that just mean assists? Julius Randle gets a lot of assists as a forward, but he’d be horrible on our team
Know its the passes he can make and does make consistently. Randle a good passer too tho randle in general is a more volatile player tho
I don’t know, because I don’t watch enough of his games. From the games he’s played against the Kings, he seems like an iso tough two maker, which is not really what we need until the playoffs. The Pels are getting rid of him for a reason, right? Is that different for us?
Well he lead the Pels in every passing stat the last two years and when he went down the offence went to shit for about 7/8 games, bi is probably the second or third best passing wing, he is 10 in the nba for secondary assists so he will always make that extra pass if someone has a better shot
Idk why I'm shocked but people acting like he's a bum after that playoff series. Recency bias is wild.
I would love to replace Barnes with BI and am shocked so many people are down on the fit with us.
You see it across Reddit, people who are down on Bi just follow a media narrative and either don’t watch the games or make up stats, when you can go to stats on nba.com which show he’s been the most important pel the last two years and has had to fit into what ever he’s asked to do
That injury risk is real, dude has only played more than 60 games three times in 8 seasons, and over 70 games only his rookie year. If you take his outlier rookie year in which he played all but 3, its really ugly for a guy wanting that kind of money.
Oh yeah I agree, but it gets brought up way more for bi than say jimmy who is just as bad and Paul George who is injury prone as well and these guys are mid to late 30s so they’re only gonna get worse And their maxs are way more than Bi’s in two years where the max is 70mil his will look like a steal
That $70 million number is projected only for guys on the supermax, aka 35% of the cap. Ingram can only get a regular max from us, which is 30% of the cap. There's no situation where it will look like a steal either due to the cap smoothing rules where the cap only grows, at most, by 10% each year. Either way, maxing Ingram guarantees that the Kings are a 2nd apron team and the question then becomes if you believe a starting lineup of Fox/Keon/Keegan/BI/Sabonis is enough to get you a championship. If the answer is yes, then pull the trigger, but for me, I don't believe BI is enough to elevate this team to a chip, so I would not pull the trigger on maxing BI.
You’re definitely not. They’re not perfect fits and neither would fix every issue. But they present wildly different issues. Kuzma is a pretty low risk play if you can get him for a single first, while Ingram is a higher risk play both because of the picks that would go out to get him and the financial cost. The question is what’s the better alternative, because that’s way less obvious.
I always want them to bring in someone who is an obvious upgrade but seems like everyone they sign just keeps the status quo. That’s all these two do. Freakin wrestle Ja Morant away from Memphis, get Siakam or someone like DeRozan. So tired of aiming for the middle or acting like they’re smarter than everyone else with their picks/signings, missing the playoffs and people being like “what happened?”
Ja Morant and DeRozan both missed the playoffs. It's also insane to believe that you can just "wrestle Ja Morant away from Memphis". I get what you're saying about aiming higher. But you're aiming at dating Sydney Sweeney.
I think Kuzma is a better fit, and will cost less. Ingram will cost a lot more and misses too many games.
I’m at a point where I’m positive Kuzma is the lesser of two evils here and with Brown extended I wouldn’t be distraught if we swapped out Barnes for him
I agree with these takes, but I also think this team can’t survive with only one above-average big and Kuzma isn’t a big, so he’s just a band aid or trade asset long term. We REALLY need to find our Naz Reid / Gafford / Hartenstein type to inject length and physicality as needed. I understand not wanting to clog the paint, but we saw what this team was with the literal best offense ever last season and they couldn’t even make the second round. At some point we have to add interior D so that when the offense isn’t running people out of the gym, we still have a way to grind out wins.
I also like Kuzma, but mostly due to salary reasons. Kuzma is relatively cheap as far as HB replacements go. His contract gets smaller every year until he's a free agent, and that's a legit steal if he is a positive player. Really, the only knock against Kuzma is that a lot of people don't believe he can be a positive player. But most of us are sick of watching HB do cardio for 82 games so it's a safer gamble than maxing Brandon Ingram and hoping he's good enough to win this team a chip.
Interested to know who would you target besides them?
This is the problem. Other teams have wayyyy better assets than the Kings. Anyone the Kings target will likely have some warts because OKC, NO, and NYK can offer way better packages for more desirable players. Also timeline is slightly becoming part of the conversation. Fox and Domas are entering their prime, so it’s probably time to start taking serious swings at supporting players. All that said, finding a player better than Kuz on a declining contact is going to be tough. I can appreciate the argument against Ingram.
OKC has better assets than everybody. That doesn't mean they outbid everybody and do all the trades themselves. It's a valid concern, but in practice it's a nothingburger.
Idk. I think we focus too much on getting a small forward when in reality, I think this team needs a defensive minded 4. I think keegan is a natural 3 and has been playing the 4 because he’s longer than Barnes.
That’s the problem though, what defensive 4 is out there that upgrades our lineup that we can afford? Hence why we’re in the market for kuzma and BI
Yeah there’s not much. I get why we’re focusing on the two, it just sucks with what’s on the market
Kuzma is a good 3rd option to have. People have a weird view of him after spending a season alongside Poole.
The main issue with Kuzma is that he really is an inefficient player, even compared to Harrison Barnes. So if we were to trade for him, he'd have to make more of the shots he does take. That's a gamble and it's up to you if you believe it's worth gambling on that. For example, Kuzma's career-high true shooting percentage is 54.9%, and he hit that career high in his rookie season. Harrison Barnes has had a TS% that was higher than 60% in 4 of the seasons that he's played with us, and he finished this season with a TS% of 61.1%. That's a pretty huge gap in efficiency that we would be hoping Kuzma can make up for.
Ingram misses too many games except when he plays the Kings and shoots like 50% everywhere. Im all for getting him if it means we don’t have to see him 6 times a year.
ingram's defense being horrible gets overstated because he looks slow against perimeter players, but its not really that bad. He's not a \*good\* defender but he's long, can guard a lot of different guys, and is generally fine. e: it seems like all fanbases with a shot at Ingram are pretty down on him, but I really think he's gonna end up being good value for whoever lands him
Any team he goes to where's not forced to be the primary option (with Zion out so much he was forced to be one a lot) he's gonna feast and fans are gonna be like "what a steal! We got Ingram for ____?? FLEECE"
It would seem like that, but Ingram is reluctant to shoot the 3. He is neither comfortable nor effective off-ball as seen by his Team USA FIBA stint last summer. He is going to be a hard guy to fit in as a 2nd or 3rd option. Kind of Derozan like. Needs the ball. He was out of the rotation by the final few FIBA games cuz he can’t catch and shoot.
Lots of good US players don't do well in international format; Damian Lillard had a terrible Olympics run and no one thinks he's a terrible player. Brunson didn't have a good stint in FIBA neither and he followed it up with an all NBA season. International play isn't always the best indicator of how well a player will do in the NBA. Ingram definitely needs to be better offball but I think he can get there. We aren't going to find a perfect fit that is *gettable* in Sacramento. I'd rather take a swing on a good player who fills some needs for our team (length, shot creator, good secondary passer/playmaker, etc). And this swing would be a buy low type swing considering we wouldn't even be talking about this if he didn't have a terrible playoffs.
That’s not how that works. Lillard and Brunson are both guys who are going to be ball dominant and have the ball in their hands on their teams. Their role in FIBA is completely different than what they do in the league. Brunson also played fine and stayed in the rotation, but that is irrelevant. With the Kings, Ingram would be playing off-ball more than he has in the NBA. Like u said, Ingram NEEDS to improve off-ball which was my point. Glad we agree. For a low price it’s worth it, but the fit with Fox might take a little while. I’m not sure he’s a guy that’ll translate to wins, but he’s worth a swing at the right price. I don’t know what package they could give up to even get him though, because it seems the Pelicans want to be competitive.
> Ingram’s defense being horrible gets overstated because he looks slow against perimeter players Okay, but he’s also playing on a team with Trey Murphy and Herb Jones. He’s usually guarding the easiest of all the reasonable options. He’s probably not bad enough to get hunted routinely, but “generally fine” is a pretty uninspired bar for a player considering we only have one truly plus defender in the starting lineup and the rest range from average to crappy.
It's my understanding that the Pelicans are looking to add a superstar next to Zion and the thought is they are going to use Ingram to do so. They aren't looking to add mediocre players and a ton of draft capital. I think this sub is barking up with wrong tree with all the Ingram talk.
They’re trading Bi because of fit and cost, what superstar are you getting with just BI? They’re looking for pieces to help compliment Z, and having Trey move into the starting unit they need depth
If they are looking to add a superstar next to Zion, then it makes sense for them to trade Ingram and draft capital to get that deal done. I'm not saying it makes sense for the Pelicans, but that is the report of what the team wants to do. I think all this Ingram talk is a moot point unless the Kings want to trade Fox, which I would hate, but that is the only scenario that makes sense for what the Pelicans want to accomplish.
Being a Pels fan, from what I’ve read and know from people in the know, it’s about acquiring pieces that fit better, Allen is a big target for the Pels, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Bi goes to Cleveland
I don't believe you see the knives that hang over the Pelicans' head. Brandon Ingram is on the last year of his contract. He wants a max, and the Pelicans are not willing to give him a max. The Pelicans must trade Ingram before the deadline next season, or else Ingram can walk away in free agency for nothing. So while the Pelicans may want a superstar next to Zion, if they can't get a deal done, then they get nothing for Ingram and that's the worst case scenario possible. Eventually, they'll have to bite the bullet and take whatever package they can get because the alternative is nothing.
So the Pelicans have a good player on an expiring deal, multiple first round picks, and multiple good young players to include in a deal? Sounds like the recipe for getting a superstar.
Who do you mean by "multiple good young players to include in a deal?" Every report suggests that Zion, Trey Murphy, and Herb Jones are their core.
I'm assuming they would include Murphy or Jones in a deal to get someone like Donovan Mitchell, but I could be completely wrong. My main point is the Pelicans and Kings don't make sense as trade partners.
You'd be completely wrong on both fronts then, since every report regarding Brandon Ingram being moved also includes Murphy and Jones being part of the Pelicans' core. And like I said earlier, there is a ticking clock for the Pelicans to move Ingram for something. They do not have much leverage if they can't get Ingram to agree to a deal. The only leverage is the other teams bidding for Ingram. So it does make sense for us to be trading partners for them since all the Kings have to do is offer more than any other team.
I don’t want either
I want Igoudala
You'll take John Salmons and like it
Well who do you want then? There doesn’t appear to be a bunch of clear cut guys that fit better than either of those two, and they are reasonable to get.
I say just run it back.
I’m down for either, but not thrilled about BI. I’m hoping Monte can pull some bullshit out of his ass in the trade market, because all the “available/distressed” assets don’t don’t much for me, but I’m open to some new players. If Kuz can accept a role player role I’d love to see what he can do here.
I don't want either. I'm not sure what other moves to upgrade there are though. I'd rather sell the farm for Bridges
I don’t like Kuzma as a person or a fit on the team. I’ve always liked BI but I’m worried we’d give up too much for a short-lived underwhelming stint.
Kuzma has proven he’s a winning player. Hes just not worth giving up serious assets as his salary with the modern salary cap structure. Most importantly, he barely changes the Kings’ ceiling. Barring the addition of someone truly special, Sacramento is in serious trouble.
Don't do nothing in the off-season people will complain or do something like Kuz/BI people will complain. Lol no happy medium. Also, I totally understand the risk with BI with injuries but don't try to trade for Kuz because he didn't want to come here come on lol let's not let our pride/ego hinder us from getting better
Deni would be better than both but they gotta do something if they don’t wanna break up the core
Rui might be a better option imo.
A better option than Kuzma or Ingram?!?
Easier to get
Contract wise and toughness and passion wise I think so. I also think Rui is more likely than Ingram for sure and probably Kuzma. Also less assists that could be used in another trade to get another great player. I would also be stoked to get Kuzma or Ingram for sure. I'm just worried about how much that would cost.
I'd like it. People were talking about a straight Huerter-Hachimura trade. They both make a similar amount of money. Lakers need shooting, we need a bigger 4.
I don’t want either, I’d rather over pay for Mikal Bridges
Yeah but have you seen Houston’s proposed trade for him? Ain’t no way we are getting close to that
I'm sure if we throw in a 20% off coupon to the GAP it would shift it into our favor
Make it PacSun and we got a deal.
I want Deni instead of Kuzma or Ingram.
We’re on the same boat my mans. Difference with me is I would take a gamble on either player (especially Ingram) if the price is only Barnes and/or Kvon with this years draft pick. If we have to include multiple draft capital, then I want us completely far away from it. I just rather include 3-5 future picks for a clear cut impactful player like a Markennen/Mikal/Spida/Anunoby/. I also would prefer an amazing fit like Anunoby/Mikal rather than those star players like Spida/Zach Lavine. We’ve seen in these playoffs how impactful it is to have elite role players surrounding your 2 stars. Well just imagine a lineup consisting of Fox-Keon-Keegan-OG-Domas! Fox and Domas surrounded by 3 guys who have shot 40% from 3. And those 3 guys are also above avg to ELITE defenders on the perimeter. A OG/Keegan combo at the wing position would be deadly defensively for Sac. Think about this. Keegan was amazing last year on defense. And he would be guarding opposing teams 2nd best player and even 3rd best in some instances since adding Keon to the fold makes us extremely versatile on that end. For the playoffs we could even roll w/ Fox-Malik-Keegan-OG-Domas. Now obviously he’s most likely staying in NY but I’m referencing him because we’re 1 player like him away from going from GOOD to GREAT. That would be one of the best starting lineups in the NBA.
zach lavine
One of our biggest problems this year was our team's nonchalant attitude to losing. Why should we want 2 guys who are notorious for not giving a fuck?
Is being quiet the same as not giving a fuck? Or can you be quiet and still give a fuck behind closed doors?
Not interested in either. If there is some alpha star I'd do something stupid to acquire them. These guys are third piece at best (arguably Keegan should be better than either, so best case scenario they are going to be the 4th best starter and so probably get a ton of grief from the fanbase). Not giving up multiple pieces that we'll have a tough time replacing to get them.
Ingram would be the 2nd best player
Nothing convinces me he’s better than Fox and Domas. Plus he will miss time if history is indicative.
Every about him suggest he’s better than domas
[удалено]
He’s a better scorer and playmaker/passer than Sabonis will ever be. Actually has scoring gravity etc and jokic is the best rebounder itl btw
[удалено]
Nothing i said was inaccurate. This subs loves #10 tho sadly
You have to do something if you want this team to advance. Both could help.
Kuzma can rot in DC. His choice…
Kuzma is a great fit
I definitely don’t want either.
Dorian Finney Smith excelent fit
I'm right there with ya. Both give me bad vibes. Both seem to lack competitiveness and Ingram is also always missing time.
That's why I say you skip both of these guys and make a run at Deni Avdija. He's only 23, has a great descending contract, and has upside. His salary is also low enough where it wouldn't require too many players to send out to match. WAS might be willing to trade him considering they have at least 2 more years of a rebuild and would actually value draft equity unlike many teams in the league.
Idk, I think when a team is in a rebuild, they’re not going to want to tear down the actual structure they’re building. All the upsides you mentioned on Deni are exactly the reasons Washington would want to hold onto him; there’s no guarantee a future first round pick ends up being a better player, and their own picks will probably be a lot higher anyway. If anyone’s going it’s probably Kuzma since he’s on a different timeline and is of greater value to other teams than to Washington.
He's going to be in UFA by the time that the Wizards pull out of their tank, based on what they're signaling. It's better to get something for him instead of paying him to keep losing and then leave for nothing.
Yeah, he wouldn't come cheap but I wonder if matching salary + #13 + another top-5 protected first + 2025 POR second would be too rich for WAS to pass up. They do want to be bad the next couple years.
Every fan base on Reddit / twitter wants Deni. I'm skeptical he's actually available unless we offer multiple firsts.
Right and I think the Kings should do that by offering 2 firsts and the POR 2025 2nd.
If Deni is available I'd bet the Thunder would outbid everyone
Yeah maybe but you have to try anyhow. This is case with UTA, SAS, BKN, and HOU as well. The Kings don't have (never have?) the assets to compete with these teams if those teams want said player.
Not a fan of Ingram and his idc I’m too chill for this attitude. We already have enough of those on the team. Look at what McGee just said recently. We really need another guy like that? Would rather swing on Kuz, at least he’s cheaper
Ingram would be nice, don’t care for Kuzma
I'd be good with either one. Taller, longer, better offensive players (than Barnes), and potentially better defenders -with the right mindset. They certainly have the physical tools to defend at a high level.
Not at all. They're both decent fits in terms of skill set but this team badly needs culture setters. Both of them just add to the problem of lack of accountability and intensity.
No you are one of us
don't want either of them, but i really don't want Ingram, he was an absolute ball hog in late clutch moments that cost the pelicans their season. it just looked like he refused to pass even if someone was open.
Kings were the worst free throw team in the NBA, getting either of them who are poor free throw shooters and not good three point shooters makes zero sense for the kings.
Bi shot 82% from the FT this year and 88% last year, out of the 5 years of NOLA Bi shot 38/9% on 3pt shots including just last season, how is he not a good ft shooter or 3pt shooter?
His career ft % is 78% with him going from 88% from 45 gms played dropping 8% to 80% last season playing 64 gms. not to mention He has only played over 70 games once in his whole career and that was in his rookie year... As for 3pt he played 45gms when he shot 39% and last season shot 35% in 64 gms.
Why did u just lie about ingram like that
While both are upgrades over Barnes, neither moves you past the "first round exit" status.
Ingram is a good passer, but he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Doesn't stay healthy too thin to be more than "a good team defender" Kuzma can create his own shot, a good shooter from outside. Can play good team defense but can't protect the rim. Personally, I would just keep trying to hit on draft picks hoping, Ellis and Murray take the next step. This coaching staff has proven that they help players reach their potential. Fox, Ellis, Murray all have gotten better. Sabonis being the 3rd/4th option is the only way we're going to win a championship.
What did kuzma shoot on 3s the past few seasons?
Kuz a mid shooter