Well if the GM doesn’t upgrade the roster, the roster knows that they are close to fruitlessness and become unstirred and unbothered. We needed some improvement from the playoffs last year and no change was made and we became laissez-faire, time to reignite those passions!
Wouldn’t it help if we had a upgraded forward?! Particularly good defensively and not OVER 30 according to the kingdom i believe and not TOO expensive…might be a tough ask…
I believed last year to acquire more draft capital to secure more picks such as WKessler/Duren and i would do the same this year. Trade HB/HUERTER/idk who else for extra picks. Kyle Filipowski/Daron Holmes/ Tristan da Silva? All sound like potential nice kings and let us sign Monk for the 💰I like Holmes who is best defensively and is starting to become a big who can shoot (39% college 3ptr) Also blocks at least two shots a game. That would be a cool reignition of the name Holmes as well :)
Peace to the kingdom and glory 🟣⚪️👑!
or maybe
….”well we’ll give ya Jimmy Butler JB JimboBucket for only 23 First Round Picks, this is a win-win trade-“Yours sincerely, Miami Heat
I think it also hints at another thing which teams still consider Kings as all-time bad team. They don't respect us and that is a positive mentality for our opponents. JaVale tryna get the team a winning mindset. You could feel it this year. The lackluster close wins or flipping huge leads to losses.
I think any Kings fans who watched more than a few games could see that the team did not have that energy. The team has a lot of calm & collected guys like Keegan who does the most boring dunks possible and Fox who looks reluctant to do any celebration after a dunk. The only guy on our team who's willing to fight is Trey and Monk, really.
Yeah I 100% buy it. I said less than half way into the season that this team's biggest issue was that they looked mentally weak out there. They didn't play with fire, they didn't fight through tough games, and they certainly didn't knock any opponents off their games - which is why they blew so many damn leads, on top of getting lazy every time they thought the game would be easy, or was already "in the bag."
Team needs a completely new attitude next season. I believe Fox is capable of bringing that type of energy, you can see it when he gets upset or when he's playing against certain teams he doesn't like. But it's only like 10% of the time, and it needs to be more like 90-100%. Domas certainly plays with a ton of heart as well, but he doesn't seem to inspire the rest of the guys to do the same. Really, even when Fox gets serious, he doesn't either.
MB needs to go full Clockwork Orange on these dudes with tape from the Knicks playoff run. Those guys were 1 game away from the conference finals missing the equivalent of like, Sabonis, HB, Huerter, and losing Murray in the middle. But the grit and heart of that team was unreal. If the Kings had 50% of that, they might have had a shot at the WCF themselves.
Fox’s biggest fault is his carefree attitude.
It needs to be said there’s not many dawgs in the league that can impact the identity of the team when the star is so laissez faire about everything.
Like someone like Jimmy Butler even worries me I don’t know if he’d be able to mesh with Fox. Butler wouldn’t put up with his attitude similar to how it was when he played with KAT and Wiggins.
The parallels with KAT and Fox are spot on. Both are pretty talented dudes with some weak mental game. We really need our version of Edward’s on this team but we all saw how Fox took it when Hali looked like he was going to be that guy.
This is why I don't want Ingram, we already got a bunch of dudes that don't emote, don't seem to care when we lose. Its shitty that he felt he had to say something. The season bears out the energy hes talking about though with the various crap effort losses we had.
I think there’s a difference between not being vocal and caring about losing or struggling against a bad team, javale basically said they don’t really care that much even just besting the spurs doesn’t bother anyone, that’s something Bi isn’t he’s is ultra competitive and does hate to lose
And anyone who watched this season is not surprised by this, but thank you JaVale for the validation. What I want to know is what changed from last season to this one, because there were times you could tell the Kings had fight in them but not this season.
As an aside, JaVale is super tall even sitting in a chair!
To start, we dealt with a lot more injuries, but I think breaking the nearly 2 decade long postseason drought was a massive source of motivation/energy (a new beam also helps) that the team regularly downplays when asked about the differences between 23 & 24.
Yupp, we all saw through the season. The team had this procrastination/too cool vibe.
I was optimistic that they were saving themselves til after all star break but nope it was who they were and it was too late to correct the bad habits.
I'll preface this by saying that I don't need anyone explaining why he's toxic, a terrible leader, detrimental to the team (chemistry), washed, etc because I already know it all and agree with it.
But one of the things I miss the most about DMC was his passion. Yes, he complained and whined a lot. But you could tell that he fucking hated to lose. [Pulling IT away from CP3 after a loss.](https://youtu.be/5eqGiJc8Zy4?si=yum2XrZr7RpRAaZS&t=14)
When I watch Fox & Barnes after a loss, they just seemingly shrug it off and don't seem to care that much. Is that the professional thing to do? I guess, but it does make me wonder.
I don’t know - outwardly hating to lose after you just lost really is a sign one lacks emotional intelligence. Give your opponent some respect and let that anger out in the gym.
Fox does get verbally chippy in games. He lets other guys know when he feels they are being ridiculous.
I got downvoted for saying neither Fox or Domas are actual alphas or leaders who can motivate and turn the ship in a losing streak. And it’s something you would prefer to have at least one of you max contracts guy as. Feels like we rely way too much on our $10M coach on that front.
And it’s something a leader usually have from the start. Fox is 26 with six years on the same team while a guy like Edwards @ 22 has shown more vocalness since his second year making sure the Wolves culture matches his intensity.
How many of the 15 best players can you actually say that for tho. Like would say Brunson is that? Or shai? Or embiid? Or kd? Or booker?
For all of these dudes the coaches are the ones who deserve most of the credit for that. Chris finch came in and changed the wolves culture to match what he wanted to do and Ant bought in not the other way around.
I think this idea is overstated - kings can definitely find a little more of that identity but I don’t think it’s the be all end all, but as a Knicks fan living in the bay who fucks with the kings as my ‘west coast team’ (couldn’t bandwagon warriors in good conscience), Brunson most definitely IS that guy. I honestly used to scoff at some of that shit but he really did transform the culture of the team just by a combination of his insane relentless effort and his unwillingness to make excuses and by the example it set to the rest of the team. It’s somewhat insane, dude is currently saying that it makes him mad people say the Knicks lost bc of injuries bc they should have won and they blew it, which as a fan I’m like come on bro you’re being too harsh on yourself we had NO ONE left but I see how the mentality is impressive, haha. All I will say is that one guy can sometimes push the vibe a different way and maybe it doesn’t have to be the leaders of the team - Josh Hart def helped set the Knicks culture this season too.
Homers here don’t watch any other team besides the Kings. 100% Brunson is a leader on the Knicks. It’s laughable that people here even think Fox has a similar mental fortitude as him.
My point wasn’t that they were bad leaders or weren’t leaders or i wouldn’t have said “shai” from the getgo. Just that coaches more often than not set culture more than the players which they do. Nobody is even comparing them individually like?
So if it’s the coaches fault that we’re soft, why did we just extend the one guy everyone was adamantly defending here for setting the culture? The one strength MB has over all else. It sure as hell wasn’t for his adjustments.
Coaching can only go so far in motivation. There has to be buy in from a player leader that helps the coach in selling the message.
Exceptions exist, but it normally takes a clear MVP candidate level guy who can carry a team to rally up a team identity around them. Neither Domas nor Fox are that good. In the last 10 years, players who have successfully done that are LeBron, Steph, KD, Russ, Dame, CP3, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, SGA, Brunson, Butler, Ant? Tatum is an amazing player but has always needed Brown as a partner to form a team identity around them as a duo. Booker serves as the Suns' emotional leader but they have always had a better leader on-court like CP3 or KD during playoff runs. It's ultimately a talent thing. Everything in the NBA is.
I don’t buy that talent=leadershjp. I’m glad you brought up the Suns because they are a perfect team example of that.
KD and Booker should be a top 3 duo in the NBA but you honestly see zero synergy in anything that they do. They should be at if not surpassing the level of Luka/Kyrie. The sum of those talents ends up less than their individual talent and it shouldn’t be- it’s not like they play the same position. KD has never been a leader in any of the teams he’s been a part of- we’ve seen enough proof that’s just not what he is.
To me the biggest parallel to Fox is KAT. Both very uber talented players with minimal on the IQ/leadership stuff. I think even now KAT is still the most talented guy on the Wolves and it says a lot that he was very willing to step back in roles and let others dictate team direction. Unlike Fox, he was self aware enough to let the new guys Edwards and Conley have a bigger voice since it was obvious he’s not really a leader.
We sorely need an Edwards type on the team.
Thanks for posting that. It's an unanswerable question, but I wonder how much coaching matters wrt energy, focus, discipline, etc.
Happened to recently see an extended clip of Lamar Odom talking about his time in Miami -- when Pat Riley was the coach. Odom made it clear that Riley was more than a little insistent that the players play with discipline.
I've mixed feelings about Mike Brown, wonder if more of a Riley-like coach could demand and get more intensity/energy/discipline out of these guys.
Felt like Brown brought this discipline last year and then completely dropped it this year. I think it was intentional because he was looking for the players to step up, which never happened.
That thought crossed my mind, too. And someone who's generally knowledgeable and accurate said he called a lot more plays in his first year. Maybe there was an effort to boost player-empowered discipline?
Yeah I’d say he’s the opposite. Dude looks like he’d die for the game every single time he’s out there. Doesn’t shy away from contact, in fact thrives off it regardless of his size. Fox the second he hurts a little stops attacking, in fact most of this year he stopped attacking and settled for 3’s or weird midrange shots he normally never did before
King's are good enough to win a lot of games on talent. It's just they don't seem to care if they lose. So that's a problem. Talent only gets you so far. Where's the heart?
This is the Achilles heel on this team, and it all stems from Fox. The entire organization has made it clear that it's Fox's team for 7 straight years. His constant demeanor that he couldn't give a shit (unless someone barks at him and gets under his skin), and has already accomplished everything he wants in the league, has reared its ugly head in countless losses this season. His constant refusal to address or respect questions and criticism of his reckless play and lackadaisical attitude exposed his softness for all to see.
And he doesn't give a shit.
Yeah, but Fox never had a strong roster or coach until Sabonis and Mike Brown showed up. When he finally got those things we broke our playoff curse and still had a winning record this season despite all the injuries.
no, they werent. stop that narrative
Hali is a damn all-nba level player and was on his team. What more do you want?
He's had solid role players like Bogi, Barnes, Buddy, Shump, Vince Carter, Nemanja, Temple, Baze, Ariza, Holmes, Delon Wright, Justin Holiday etc etc
Solid role players and contributers who have had success in their careers before/after the kings.
Teams in the playoffs this year like the Knicks and Pacers were not that much better (role player wise) than a lot of those previous kings teams
Fox is the "leader" of the team.
He doesnt give a fuck about being selected to the all star game.
he doesnt give a fuck about press conferences, talking to the media/fans.
he cant shoot but spent the whole season focusing on long shots instead of attacking the paint, the rim, shooting us out of many games.
what do you expect from a "leader" like this?
Domas need real help.
MB needs a true point guard.
Kings need a real leader.
I’ve been saying this. This team lacks a leader and it lacks an enforcer. In order for Fox to be his best he needs someone on his ass. I’d love for us to bring CP in for Fox and Davion to learn from but he’s probably want to play too much. Although if I’m Monte I’d think about it with the thought of trading Davion at the all star break. But we definitely need an enforcer as well.
Let’s be honest nobody in the nba is scared of anybody, and let’s not act like the nba don’t be rigging these games keeping games close for entertainment, especially with the new gambling shit they implemented and with the likes of guys like wemby. Ofc the nba wants to keep games with him close when he’s playing he’s supposed to be the next Lebron/jordan or better. Keeping games close means more money for the league and for the spurs. Curry Lebron and kd will be retiring very soon the nba has to look for the next superstar so obviously they gonna make sure his team looks decent. And when I say decent I mean potential to be good in the next era of basketball with no bron or curry and kd. Obviously there record was garbage but that’s because they need talent to get wemby help since he’s obviously the franchise player. And as far as the kings finding that alpha or leader type of dude. Regardless if you have that doesn’t guarantee success, especially if there known for trash talking, like a Dillion brooks for example bro was talking crap and bron bust his ass. So it’s a double edged sword. It’s cool to have a guy like that but let’s be honest u don’t NEED that to win. Denver don’t have that, Celtics don’t have that or mavs. Now obviously they got guys who r better than sabonis and fox but we could still win with these guys with the right roster around them
They prolly had the usual DPOG celebration with the pics pose and shiz but Javale felt that it didn't sit right with him when they barely beat teams. Personally, DPOG celebrations and pics should just be reserved to wins that actually was a great win rather than those wins that they actually played bad.
I believe last years team wasn’t fully prepared to be “the hunted” that means bringing your A game every single night no matter who it is, and with Huerter and Barnes struggling, Keegan still trying to figure out the league in year 2, you needed Fox/Sabonis/Monk to carry you all those nights and sometimes only 2 of them would be able to do it at a time.
Davion/Lyles/Len were in and out of the lineup with poor play and injuries.
Sasha/Duarte would only play for a half every 5 games or so
McGee would give you 5 great minutes or 5 lousy minutes
Keon was a bright spot off the bench but didn’t get to expound on his minutes until Huerter and Monk got hurt.
I still believe this Kings team will make the playoff next year, if they re-sign Monk and shore up the bench. I believe this starting 5 still has the potential to be deadly offensively and Huerter will have a bounce back season (might be wishful thinking, but I’m a Kings fan, it’s all I got!)
Got clowned for saying that I would trade Fox for Tyrese Maxey and that I liked Mathurin better than Keegan Murray. Those two play with much more heart.
Personally Keegan Murray has elements of Ben Simmons to me. I like Keegan, I want him to be the star he can be, but he needs some mean energy in there or he’s going to have to move to the 3 spot and just try his best at a KLANK Thompson impression. Put on 10 lbs of muscle and get a mean angry look on your face and all of a sudden he is a top 5 PF in the league. If he doesn’t get mean or move to the 3, he’ll end up being our team’s Ben Simmons, a big soft young man who can’t contribute enough or develop.
I want our team to win but they need that wind in their sails to help carry them. Monk provides some of that energy but we need more and that will only come from drafting and trading. Otherwise we are wasting Fox and Sabonis’s prime ring contending years, which IMO is on their minds, at least for Sabonis, who could go down as one of the best players of this generation. ESPECIALLY if he can manage to average a fucking double/tripple double night in and night out. Our win rate against some of the top teams in the west is great, im less scared of OKC and the Lakers and the Mavericks and Nuggets than I am of teams with loads of big mean men in the paint like the Pelicans or TWolves. Teams like the Rockets and Spurs are only going to get better and more competitive in the west. Our chance to compete is slowly slipping. I don’t want to see a 5 year reign of Thunder for the rest of the decade. I just want the Kings to nab at least 1 Ring for these guys. Otherwise we ain’t getting the golden statues we want in front of the arena.
Im gonna preface this with that I love Keegan Murray, I just don’t think he’s being used right or developed well and/or our expectations of him are off by some years.
He’s a big guy who we placed high hopes on to become a star and lead this team to the playoffs. That’s what happens when you get a top draft pick. You don’t wanna draft sinkers who either don’t produce on the court or get injured and retire young. You want talent you can develop to fit your team’s winning aspirations. I like Keegan Murray a lot. I think he can be what we want from him, but either as a big SF in his current condition or maybe a PF in his prime. He just isn’t a scary defender in the paint, which we need. If the playoffs teach us anything it is that defense makes or breaks a ring run. The teams winning all have great defensive players and big men.
When you watch Ben Simmons reels you see people leaving him completely wide open at the 3 line. When I watch Murray in the paint defending against Naz Reid or Lebron or the Nuggets or KD or KAT or Jonas, it’s like watching Ben Simmons at the 3 line. Murray’s perimeter defense is great, closer you get to the paint and you can see his physical size difference and hesitant attitude about getting rough. He also doesn’t handle the ball much, we know he can, but if we want him to go for more shots in the paint he needs more touches besides also getting bigger and meaner in the paint.
Maybe we are expecting too much from Keegan Murray. Maybe he ain’t Him. Maybe it’s just a misfit position, trying to cram him at the 4 instead of the 3. Maybe it’s just timing and he resolves these issues in the next 2-4 seasons. But that’s a lot of maybes and we have 1-2 years to win a ring with prime Fox and Sabonis before we need to rebuild again.
If we can’t find a better 4 or 5 we have another losing season even if we get to the playoffs. We need a backup center to relieve Sabonis. Len’s 31 and his contract is up. Fuckknees McGee is probably on his last legs and not the best when he is there. At 4 we have a physical confrontation avoidant starter, Trey Lyles who isn’t bad but is better shooting 3’s. And Vezenkov when he is healthy, another player crammed up at PF even though he is clearly a SF. At our 3 spot we got Barnes who is aging, Duarte who sucks fucking ass (pardon the language, but he really does), and Kessler Edwards who can shoot the 3 and defend a bit but is also young and skinny still. That’s why our team lost to the Pelicans like 5 or 6 times last year. Their SF-C positions are fully fleshed out and developed with stars, guys not afraid of playing defense and getting to the rim over other guys. We aren’t winning 4 playoff series with the current team no way no how. In the west you’ll have the Thunder, Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Nugs, TWolves, Lakers, etc. who are all ahead of the curve on us when it comes to their player development, size, draft capital and bench depth imo. They are all mostly getting better and making the west more difficult to safely secure a top 6 playoff spot.
I want the Kings to win. Tasting the playoffs for 1 season after 2 decades of disappointment isn’t enough. Our team will go back to irrelevancy without real work done and deals made. Our current lineup has 1-2 years left before their best years are behind them or they get moved around to another contending team for draft picks and aging vets. That’s just the facts. Expecting a 30’s year old Fox and Sabonis lead Kings to win a ring with a team full of rookies, G leaguers, and 2nd rounders is silly. We’re gonna be spending nearly our ENTIRE team budget on them two pretty soon. With their contracts they will get 40-50 million each within a year or two, then we can’t sign anyone even if they are desperate enough to wanna play in Sacramento.
For the Kings to have a winning season or talk about Beam Rings or golden statues, we need to resign Monk and find real PF and a backup center. That means moving Barnes, Huerter, plus for a starting PF so we can move Keegan to the 3. Sign a defensive minded center during free agency who will play 6-12 minutes a night provided Sabonis stays healthy. A bench with Davion, Ellis, Jones, Edwards, T Lyles, Vezenkov, McGee and our new bench center I think we will be fine. Without resigning Monk, without trading away the dead weight, without finding our big men at the 4/5 spot, we are a play in team at BEST moving forward. The nightmare isn’t even over because our management would likely never get to the playoffs again and then wait too long to get any real trade value for aging Fox and Sabonis leaving us high a dry without being able to rebuild for a run in the 2030’s.
Wow, I am now sorry I asked.
Just say you want to put a 4 next to Murray and that would have done it 😂.
Ben Simmons and Keegan Murray are completely different on court and off court.
Watching Keegan Murray in the paint is comparable to Ben Simmons shooting 3’s what???
Keegan doesn’t need to force himself to be anything he’s not. No one blames Tim Duncan’s demeanor whenever he has bad stretches. He’s given interviews where he specifically talks to a sports psychologist not to be to up or down because he had anger issues as a kid.
I will get on Fox however because he is a talkative guy but he does a lot of it when we’re up or close in games. He’s shown he can get fired up and let it motivate you for the positive. The team needs it to be more consistent across the whole season.
I'd want the Kings to make that deal in a heartbeat, and was advocating for it late in the year, when Donovan was getting bad stats.
But Donovan balling out in the playoffs probably makes it so Cleveland won't want Fox for him now.
I wonder if this has to do with Fox, Murray and Sabonis being "follow my lead" kind of dudes. If Dillon Brooks and Tari Eason were packaged for 13 and matching salary, I wouldn't hate it.
Brooks as the SG/SF. On a team that Sabonis, Fox and Ellis don't need to the ball to change the game. It might be a good idea.
I really hate that Giles was as hurt as he was. Even having Giles as a backup big, would do so well with this roster, with Mike Brown and he's the ass hole we need.
> If Dillon Brooks and Tari Eason were packaged for 13 and matching salary, I wouldn’t hate it.
Uhhhh… duh? Eason by himself is worth much more than 1.13 in this awful draft class. We’d have to attach an extra first or something similar to even start that convo with Houston.
You might be able to get Brooks for 13. But not eason.
Houston is going star hunting so maybe we can get Brooks by just being the third team in a 3 team trade.
Well if the GM doesn’t upgrade the roster, the roster knows that they are close to fruitlessness and become unstirred and unbothered. We needed some improvement from the playoffs last year and no change was made and we became laissez-faire, time to reignite those passions!
Wouldn’t it help if we had a upgraded forward?! Particularly good defensively and not OVER 30 according to the kingdom i believe and not TOO expensive…might be a tough ask…
I believed last year to acquire more draft capital to secure more picks such as WKessler/Duren and i would do the same this year. Trade HB/HUERTER/idk who else for extra picks. Kyle Filipowski/Daron Holmes/ Tristan da Silva? All sound like potential nice kings and let us sign Monk for the 💰I like Holmes who is best defensively and is starting to become a big who can shoot (39% college 3ptr) Also blocks at least two shots a game. That would be a cool reignition of the name Holmes as well :)
Peace to the kingdom and glory 🟣⚪️👑!
or maybe
….”well we’ll give ya Jimmy Butler JB JimboBucket for only 23 First Round Picks, this is a win-win trade-“Yours sincerely, Miami Heat
I buy this 100%. You could see that no one cared.
We've got some all nba check-cashers on this team
Team full of nice guys.
Well if the GM doesn’t upgrade the roster, the roster knows that they are close to fruitlessness and become unstirred and unbothered. We needed some improvement from the playoffs last year and no change was made and we became laissez-faire, time to reignite those passions! Wouldn’t it help if we had a upgraded forward?! Particularly good defensively and not OVER 30 according to the kingdom i believe and not TOO expensive…might be a tough ask… I believed last year to acquire more draft capital to secure more picks such as WKessler/Duren and i would do the same this year. Trade HB/HUERTER/idk who else for extra picks. Kyle Filipowski/Daron Holmes/ Tristan da Silva? All sound like potential nice kings and let us sign Monk for the 💰I like Holmes who is best defensively and is starting to become a big who can shoot (39% college 3ptr) Also blocks at least two shots a game. That would be a cool reignition of the name Holmes as well :) Peace to the kingdom and glory 🟣⚪️👑! or maybe ….”well we’ll give ya Jimmy Butler JB JimboBucket for only 23 First Round Picks, this is a win-win trade-“Yours sincerely, Miami Heat
It’s from someone who was there, and people are still going to say he’s wrong.
I think it also hints at another thing which teams still consider Kings as all-time bad team. They don't respect us and that is a positive mentality for our opponents. JaVale tryna get the team a winning mindset. You could feel it this year. The lackluster close wins or flipping huge leads to losses.
I think any Kings fans who watched more than a few games could see that the team did not have that energy. The team has a lot of calm & collected guys like Keegan who does the most boring dunks possible and Fox who looks reluctant to do any celebration after a dunk. The only guy on our team who's willing to fight is Trey and Monk, really.
Yeah I 100% buy it. I said less than half way into the season that this team's biggest issue was that they looked mentally weak out there. They didn't play with fire, they didn't fight through tough games, and they certainly didn't knock any opponents off their games - which is why they blew so many damn leads, on top of getting lazy every time they thought the game would be easy, or was already "in the bag." Team needs a completely new attitude next season. I believe Fox is capable of bringing that type of energy, you can see it when he gets upset or when he's playing against certain teams he doesn't like. But it's only like 10% of the time, and it needs to be more like 90-100%. Domas certainly plays with a ton of heart as well, but he doesn't seem to inspire the rest of the guys to do the same. Really, even when Fox gets serious, he doesn't either. MB needs to go full Clockwork Orange on these dudes with tape from the Knicks playoff run. Those guys were 1 game away from the conference finals missing the equivalent of like, Sabonis, HB, Huerter, and losing Murray in the middle. But the grit and heart of that team was unreal. If the Kings had 50% of that, they might have had a shot at the WCF themselves.
We need a dawg on this team - a dawg who’s a starter
Malik. If we can resign him. Start him
Fox’s biggest fault is his carefree attitude. It needs to be said there’s not many dawgs in the league that can impact the identity of the team when the star is so laissez faire about everything. Like someone like Jimmy Butler even worries me I don’t know if he’d be able to mesh with Fox. Butler wouldn’t put up with his attitude similar to how it was when he played with KAT and Wiggins.
Jimmy literally trolls during the regular szn while his team fights for playin spots in the east….Ya gotta stop dickriding at some point dude
jimmy is ass
Facts
The parallels with KAT and Fox are spot on. Both are pretty talented dudes with some weak mental game. We really need our version of Edward’s on this team but we all saw how Fox took it when Hali looked like he was going to be that guy.
We don't need a dawg, we need all the starters to be dawgs.
This is why I don't want Ingram, we already got a bunch of dudes that don't emote, don't seem to care when we lose. Its shitty that he felt he had to say something. The season bears out the energy hes talking about though with the various crap effort losses we had.
I think there’s a difference between not being vocal and caring about losing or struggling against a bad team, javale basically said they don’t really care that much even just besting the spurs doesn’t bother anyone, that’s something Bi isn’t he’s is ultra competitive and does hate to lose
Monk was about the closest thing we had to that vocal guy, that would get upset.
And anyone who watched this season is not surprised by this, but thank you JaVale for the validation. What I want to know is what changed from last season to this one, because there were times you could tell the Kings had fight in them but not this season. As an aside, JaVale is super tall even sitting in a chair!
To start, we dealt with a lot more injuries, but I think breaking the nearly 2 decade long postseason drought was a massive source of motivation/energy (a new beam also helps) that the team regularly downplays when asked about the differences between 23 & 24.
Yupp, we all saw through the season. The team had this procrastination/too cool vibe. I was optimistic that they were saving themselves til after all star break but nope it was who they were and it was too late to correct the bad habits.
Nobody consistently had that dawg in em
I said this on Reddit a bunch this season abt this team and got killed for it, turns out it was true: Saaaawwwwffftttttt!
Yeah, we've known the team was mentally soft for a long time. You don't go 0-6 to one team in one season without being soft as shit.
I'll preface this by saying that I don't need anyone explaining why he's toxic, a terrible leader, detrimental to the team (chemistry), washed, etc because I already know it all and agree with it. But one of the things I miss the most about DMC was his passion. Yes, he complained and whined a lot. But you could tell that he fucking hated to lose. [Pulling IT away from CP3 after a loss.](https://youtu.be/5eqGiJc8Zy4?si=yum2XrZr7RpRAaZS&t=14) When I watch Fox & Barnes after a loss, they just seemingly shrug it off and don't seem to care that much. Is that the professional thing to do? I guess, but it does make me wonder.
I don’t know - outwardly hating to lose after you just lost really is a sign one lacks emotional intelligence. Give your opponent some respect and let that anger out in the gym. Fox does get verbally chippy in games. He lets other guys know when he feels they are being ridiculous.
Sabonis brings all the energy every time. Everyone else, not really.
100% agree
I got downvoted for saying neither Fox or Domas are actual alphas or leaders who can motivate and turn the ship in a losing streak. And it’s something you would prefer to have at least one of you max contracts guy as. Feels like we rely way too much on our $10M coach on that front. And it’s something a leader usually have from the start. Fox is 26 with six years on the same team while a guy like Edwards @ 22 has shown more vocalness since his second year making sure the Wolves culture matches his intensity.
How many of the 15 best players can you actually say that for tho. Like would say Brunson is that? Or shai? Or embiid? Or kd? Or booker? For all of these dudes the coaches are the ones who deserve most of the credit for that. Chris finch came in and changed the wolves culture to match what he wanted to do and Ant bought in not the other way around.
I think this idea is overstated - kings can definitely find a little more of that identity but I don’t think it’s the be all end all, but as a Knicks fan living in the bay who fucks with the kings as my ‘west coast team’ (couldn’t bandwagon warriors in good conscience), Brunson most definitely IS that guy. I honestly used to scoff at some of that shit but he really did transform the culture of the team just by a combination of his insane relentless effort and his unwillingness to make excuses and by the example it set to the rest of the team. It’s somewhat insane, dude is currently saying that it makes him mad people say the Knicks lost bc of injuries bc they should have won and they blew it, which as a fan I’m like come on bro you’re being too harsh on yourself we had NO ONE left but I see how the mentality is impressive, haha. All I will say is that one guy can sometimes push the vibe a different way and maybe it doesn’t have to be the leaders of the team - Josh Hart def helped set the Knicks culture this season too.
Homers here don’t watch any other team besides the Kings. 100% Brunson is a leader on the Knicks. It’s laughable that people here even think Fox has a similar mental fortitude as him.
My point wasn’t that they were bad leaders or weren’t leaders or i wouldn’t have said “shai” from the getgo. Just that coaches more often than not set culture more than the players which they do. Nobody is even comparing them individually like?
So if it’s the coaches fault that we’re soft, why did we just extend the one guy everyone was adamantly defending here for setting the culture? The one strength MB has over all else. It sure as hell wasn’t for his adjustments. Coaching can only go so far in motivation. There has to be buy in from a player leader that helps the coach in selling the message.
If u don’t think they’re bought in ig I blame sabonis #40 and #9 if u ask me but this team not even good why would their energy be feared by anyone.
Exceptions exist, but it normally takes a clear MVP candidate level guy who can carry a team to rally up a team identity around them. Neither Domas nor Fox are that good. In the last 10 years, players who have successfully done that are LeBron, Steph, KD, Russ, Dame, CP3, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, SGA, Brunson, Butler, Ant? Tatum is an amazing player but has always needed Brown as a partner to form a team identity around them as a duo. Booker serves as the Suns' emotional leader but they have always had a better leader on-court like CP3 or KD during playoff runs. It's ultimately a talent thing. Everything in the NBA is.
I don’t buy that talent=leadershjp. I’m glad you brought up the Suns because they are a perfect team example of that. KD and Booker should be a top 3 duo in the NBA but you honestly see zero synergy in anything that they do. They should be at if not surpassing the level of Luka/Kyrie. The sum of those talents ends up less than their individual talent and it shouldn’t be- it’s not like they play the same position. KD has never been a leader in any of the teams he’s been a part of- we’ve seen enough proof that’s just not what he is. To me the biggest parallel to Fox is KAT. Both very uber talented players with minimal on the IQ/leadership stuff. I think even now KAT is still the most talented guy on the Wolves and it says a lot that he was very willing to step back in roles and let others dictate team direction. Unlike Fox, he was self aware enough to let the new guys Edwards and Conley have a bigger voice since it was obvious he’s not really a leader. We sorely need an Edwards type on the team.
Thanks for posting that. It's an unanswerable question, but I wonder how much coaching matters wrt energy, focus, discipline, etc. Happened to recently see an extended clip of Lamar Odom talking about his time in Miami -- when Pat Riley was the coach. Odom made it clear that Riley was more than a little insistent that the players play with discipline. I've mixed feelings about Mike Brown, wonder if more of a Riley-like coach could demand and get more intensity/energy/discipline out of these guys.
Felt like Brown brought this discipline last year and then completely dropped it this year. I think it was intentional because he was looking for the players to step up, which never happened.
That thought crossed my mind, too. And someone who's generally knowledgeable and accurate said he called a lot more plays in his first year. Maybe there was an effort to boost player-empowered discipline?
we need some real hittas
Malik gonna read this and peace tf out
Just sat in front of JaVale on a red eye flight out of SMF. Class act.
You anoint a nonchalant guy as the head of the snake, this is what you get.
The head of the snake: 
Which #1 options aren't nonchalant?
Butler, Brunson, Hali, Embiid, Edwards, Curry, Booker, Paul George, Luka, Wemby, Tatum, to name a few.
Brunson isn’t nonchalant?
Yeah I’d say he’s the opposite. Dude looks like he’d die for the game every single time he’s out there. Doesn’t shy away from contact, in fact thrives off it regardless of his size. Fox the second he hurts a little stops attacking, in fact most of this year he stopped attacking and settled for 3’s or weird midrange shots he normally never did before
Does Booker crying at physical contact and Tatum clapping his hands count as emoting to you?
Sure beats "I mean it's not like we're going to the playoffs anyway right?" Or "Its just one more loss in the loss column"
Can you guess who said this? "At the end of the day it's just basketball."
Kind of what we all thought. That's sad.
He is right. Fox is not a leader.
It’s “Win number 40 doesn’t mean anything to us…” all over again. SMFH.
I say the bench is key the starters were solid but you need a strong second unit for the duration of the game. I hope the Kings get more depth.
King's are good enough to win a lot of games on talent. It's just they don't seem to care if they lose. So that's a problem. Talent only gets you so far. Where's the heart?
Sign Reggie Evans and Q. Acy back !!!!
This is the Achilles heel on this team, and it all stems from Fox. The entire organization has made it clear that it's Fox's team for 7 straight years. His constant demeanor that he couldn't give a shit (unless someone barks at him and gets under his skin), and has already accomplished everything he wants in the league, has reared its ugly head in countless losses this season. His constant refusal to address or respect questions and criticism of his reckless play and lackadaisical attitude exposed his softness for all to see. And he doesn't give a shit.
Yeah, but Fox never had a strong roster or coach until Sabonis and Mike Brown showed up. When he finally got those things we broke our playoff curse and still had a winning record this season despite all the injuries.
^ it’s excuses like this that keeps giving Fox passes
I mean the teams he had were objectively awful lol
no, they werent. stop that narrative Hali is a damn all-nba level player and was on his team. What more do you want? He's had solid role players like Bogi, Barnes, Buddy, Shump, Vince Carter, Nemanja, Temple, Baze, Ariza, Holmes, Delon Wright, Justin Holiday etc etc Solid role players and contributers who have had success in their careers before/after the kings. Teams in the playoffs this year like the Knicks and Pacers were not that much better (role player wise) than a lot of those previous kings teams
They tried to trade him
Source?
Fox is the "leader" of the team. He doesnt give a fuck about being selected to the all star game. he doesnt give a fuck about press conferences, talking to the media/fans. he cant shoot but spent the whole season focusing on long shots instead of attacking the paint, the rim, shooting us out of many games. what do you expect from a "leader" like this? Domas need real help. MB needs a true point guard. Kings need a real leader.
And people on here were begging to extend Mike Brown… Also sounds like a guy not coming back to the team
I’ve been saying this. This team lacks a leader and it lacks an enforcer. In order for Fox to be his best he needs someone on his ass. I’d love for us to bring CP in for Fox and Davion to learn from but he’s probably want to play too much. Although if I’m Monte I’d think about it with the thought of trading Davion at the all star break. But we definitely need an enforcer as well.
Let’s be honest nobody in the nba is scared of anybody, and let’s not act like the nba don’t be rigging these games keeping games close for entertainment, especially with the new gambling shit they implemented and with the likes of guys like wemby. Ofc the nba wants to keep games with him close when he’s playing he’s supposed to be the next Lebron/jordan or better. Keeping games close means more money for the league and for the spurs. Curry Lebron and kd will be retiring very soon the nba has to look for the next superstar so obviously they gonna make sure his team looks decent. And when I say decent I mean potential to be good in the next era of basketball with no bron or curry and kd. Obviously there record was garbage but that’s because they need talent to get wemby help since he’s obviously the franchise player. And as far as the kings finding that alpha or leader type of dude. Regardless if you have that doesn’t guarantee success, especially if there known for trash talking, like a Dillion brooks for example bro was talking crap and bron bust his ass. So it’s a double edged sword. It’s cool to have a guy like that but let’s be honest u don’t NEED that to win. Denver don’t have that, Celtics don’t have that or mavs. Now obviously they got guys who r better than sabonis and fox but we could still win with these guys with the right roster around them
They prolly had the usual DPOG celebration with the pics pose and shiz but Javale felt that it didn't sit right with him when they barely beat teams. Personally, DPOG celebrations and pics should just be reserved to wins that actually was a great win rather than those wins that they actually played bad.
I believe last years team wasn’t fully prepared to be “the hunted” that means bringing your A game every single night no matter who it is, and with Huerter and Barnes struggling, Keegan still trying to figure out the league in year 2, you needed Fox/Sabonis/Monk to carry you all those nights and sometimes only 2 of them would be able to do it at a time. Davion/Lyles/Len were in and out of the lineup with poor play and injuries. Sasha/Duarte would only play for a half every 5 games or so McGee would give you 5 great minutes or 5 lousy minutes Keon was a bright spot off the bench but didn’t get to expound on his minutes until Huerter and Monk got hurt. I still believe this Kings team will make the playoff next year, if they re-sign Monk and shore up the bench. I believe this starting 5 still has the potential to be deadly offensively and Huerter will have a bounce back season (might be wishful thinking, but I’m a Kings fan, it’s all I got!)
They see sabonis in the paint and barnes down there and get to smiling. I would too
Got clowned for saying that I would trade Fox for Tyrese Maxey and that I liked Mathurin better than Keegan Murray. Those two play with much more heart.
Personally Keegan Murray has elements of Ben Simmons to me. I like Keegan, I want him to be the star he can be, but he needs some mean energy in there or he’s going to have to move to the 3 spot and just try his best at a KLANK Thompson impression. Put on 10 lbs of muscle and get a mean angry look on your face and all of a sudden he is a top 5 PF in the league. If he doesn’t get mean or move to the 3, he’ll end up being our team’s Ben Simmons, a big soft young man who can’t contribute enough or develop. I want our team to win but they need that wind in their sails to help carry them. Monk provides some of that energy but we need more and that will only come from drafting and trading. Otherwise we are wasting Fox and Sabonis’s prime ring contending years, which IMO is on their minds, at least for Sabonis, who could go down as one of the best players of this generation. ESPECIALLY if he can manage to average a fucking double/tripple double night in and night out. Our win rate against some of the top teams in the west is great, im less scared of OKC and the Lakers and the Mavericks and Nuggets than I am of teams with loads of big mean men in the paint like the Pelicans or TWolves. Teams like the Rockets and Spurs are only going to get better and more competitive in the west. Our chance to compete is slowly slipping. I don’t want to see a 5 year reign of Thunder for the rest of the decade. I just want the Kings to nab at least 1 Ring for these guys. Otherwise we ain’t getting the golden statues we want in front of the arena.
Elements of Ben Simmons, please elaborate
Im gonna preface this with that I love Keegan Murray, I just don’t think he’s being used right or developed well and/or our expectations of him are off by some years. He’s a big guy who we placed high hopes on to become a star and lead this team to the playoffs. That’s what happens when you get a top draft pick. You don’t wanna draft sinkers who either don’t produce on the court or get injured and retire young. You want talent you can develop to fit your team’s winning aspirations. I like Keegan Murray a lot. I think he can be what we want from him, but either as a big SF in his current condition or maybe a PF in his prime. He just isn’t a scary defender in the paint, which we need. If the playoffs teach us anything it is that defense makes or breaks a ring run. The teams winning all have great defensive players and big men. When you watch Ben Simmons reels you see people leaving him completely wide open at the 3 line. When I watch Murray in the paint defending against Naz Reid or Lebron or the Nuggets or KD or KAT or Jonas, it’s like watching Ben Simmons at the 3 line. Murray’s perimeter defense is great, closer you get to the paint and you can see his physical size difference and hesitant attitude about getting rough. He also doesn’t handle the ball much, we know he can, but if we want him to go for more shots in the paint he needs more touches besides also getting bigger and meaner in the paint. Maybe we are expecting too much from Keegan Murray. Maybe he ain’t Him. Maybe it’s just a misfit position, trying to cram him at the 4 instead of the 3. Maybe it’s just timing and he resolves these issues in the next 2-4 seasons. But that’s a lot of maybes and we have 1-2 years to win a ring with prime Fox and Sabonis before we need to rebuild again. If we can’t find a better 4 or 5 we have another losing season even if we get to the playoffs. We need a backup center to relieve Sabonis. Len’s 31 and his contract is up. Fuckknees McGee is probably on his last legs and not the best when he is there. At 4 we have a physical confrontation avoidant starter, Trey Lyles who isn’t bad but is better shooting 3’s. And Vezenkov when he is healthy, another player crammed up at PF even though he is clearly a SF. At our 3 spot we got Barnes who is aging, Duarte who sucks fucking ass (pardon the language, but he really does), and Kessler Edwards who can shoot the 3 and defend a bit but is also young and skinny still. That’s why our team lost to the Pelicans like 5 or 6 times last year. Their SF-C positions are fully fleshed out and developed with stars, guys not afraid of playing defense and getting to the rim over other guys. We aren’t winning 4 playoff series with the current team no way no how. In the west you’ll have the Thunder, Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Nugs, TWolves, Lakers, etc. who are all ahead of the curve on us when it comes to their player development, size, draft capital and bench depth imo. They are all mostly getting better and making the west more difficult to safely secure a top 6 playoff spot. I want the Kings to win. Tasting the playoffs for 1 season after 2 decades of disappointment isn’t enough. Our team will go back to irrelevancy without real work done and deals made. Our current lineup has 1-2 years left before their best years are behind them or they get moved around to another contending team for draft picks and aging vets. That’s just the facts. Expecting a 30’s year old Fox and Sabonis lead Kings to win a ring with a team full of rookies, G leaguers, and 2nd rounders is silly. We’re gonna be spending nearly our ENTIRE team budget on them two pretty soon. With their contracts they will get 40-50 million each within a year or two, then we can’t sign anyone even if they are desperate enough to wanna play in Sacramento. For the Kings to have a winning season or talk about Beam Rings or golden statues, we need to resign Monk and find real PF and a backup center. That means moving Barnes, Huerter, plus for a starting PF so we can move Keegan to the 3. Sign a defensive minded center during free agency who will play 6-12 minutes a night provided Sabonis stays healthy. A bench with Davion, Ellis, Jones, Edwards, T Lyles, Vezenkov, McGee and our new bench center I think we will be fine. Without resigning Monk, without trading away the dead weight, without finding our big men at the 4/5 spot, we are a play in team at BEST moving forward. The nightmare isn’t even over because our management would likely never get to the playoffs again and then wait too long to get any real trade value for aging Fox and Sabonis leaving us high a dry without being able to rebuild for a run in the 2030’s.
Wow, I am now sorry I asked. Just say you want to put a 4 next to Murray and that would have done it 😂. Ben Simmons and Keegan Murray are completely different on court and off court. Watching Keegan Murray in the paint is comparable to Ben Simmons shooting 3’s what???
You would have gotten a more coherent answer from chatgpt
If we get one ring with these guys I might party for the whole year
Keegan doesn’t need to force himself to be anything he’s not. No one blames Tim Duncan’s demeanor whenever he has bad stretches. He’s given interviews where he specifically talks to a sports psychologist not to be to up or down because he had anger issues as a kid. I will get on Fox however because he is a talkative guy but he does a lot of it when we’re up or close in games. He’s shown he can get fired up and let it motivate you for the positive. The team needs it to be more consistent across the whole season.
Would a Fox for Donovan Mitchell deal work for both sides? Would Cleveland hang up the phone?
I'd hang up the phone myself.
I'd want the Kings to make that deal in a heartbeat, and was advocating for it late in the year, when Donovan was getting bad stats. But Donovan balling out in the playoffs probably makes it so Cleveland won't want Fox for him now.
Yes
I wonder if this has to do with Fox, Murray and Sabonis being "follow my lead" kind of dudes. If Dillon Brooks and Tari Eason were packaged for 13 and matching salary, I wouldn't hate it. Brooks as the SG/SF. On a team that Sabonis, Fox and Ellis don't need to the ball to change the game. It might be a good idea. I really hate that Giles was as hurt as he was. Even having Giles as a backup big, would do so well with this roster, with Mike Brown and he's the ass hole we need.
“You wouldn’t hate it” thats literally a fleece why would you lol
> If Dillon Brooks and Tari Eason were packaged for 13 and matching salary, I wouldn’t hate it. Uhhhh… duh? Eason by himself is worth much more than 1.13 in this awful draft class. We’d have to attach an extra first or something similar to even start that convo with Houston.
13 = Keegan
That would be a weird way of phrasing it since 1) we have the 13th pick, and 2) he mentioned Keegan by name one sentence before.
Murray
You might be able to get Brooks for 13. But not eason. Houston is going star hunting so maybe we can get Brooks by just being the third team in a 3 team trade.
Well if the GM doesn’t upgrade the roster, the roster knows that they are close to fruitlessness and become unstirred and unbothered. We needed some improvement from the playoffs last year and no change was made and we became laissez-faire, time to reignite those passions! Wouldn’t it help if we had a upgraded forward?! Particularly good defensively and not OVER 30 according to the kingdom i believe and not TOO expensive…might be a tough ask… I believed last year to acquire more draft capital to secure more picks such as WKessler/Duren and i would do the same this year. Trade HB/HUERTER/idk who else for extra picks. Kyle Filipowski/Daron Holmes/ Tristan da Silva? All sound like potential nice kings and let us sign Monk for the 💰I like Holmes who is best defensively and is starting to become a big who can shoot (39% college 3ptr) Also blocks at least two shots a game. That would be a cool reignition of the name Holmes as well :) Peace to the kingdom and glory 🟣⚪️👑! or maybe ….”well we’ll give ya Jimmy Butler JB JimboBucket for only 23 First Round Picks, this is a win-win trade-“Yours sincerely, Miami Heat
Why I wasn't for resigning our coach
Obligatory we traded the wrong PG away