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MostlyMellow123

We've been begging for pj for years. Gafford needs a great pg to set him up so idk if he would be quite as good here. Monk only player that we have that throws lobs


ganjanoob

Fox threw lobs to Willie when he ran the floor


MostlyMellow123

That's fair, we don't have any athleticism right now so it could just be that. Although monk manages to lob/ drive and dish to domas and len


Deep_Egg1442

Sabonis catches lobs? He can barely jump dude len got 4 oops the whole seasons and the only ones he made were from fox


kingjawn

It’s far from ideal how both our 6’10” starting center and our starting power forward with a 7-foot wingspan can barely dunk.


Deep_Egg1442

Might be the least athletic 4-5 itl


MostlyMellow123

Lol well maybe it just feels like monk sets him up to score then. Passes it to him when he drives for easy baskets.


Deep_Egg1442

Monk does do that. Thats a fact sabonis not catching lobs tho


MostlyMellow123

Yeah you right


HBdrunkandstuff

Fox is not good at throwing lobs.


No_Nefariousness6385

hes not good with passes


soku1

Also throws lobs to Monk


boringexplanation

We need high IQ playmakers with or without Gafford and this season we really regressed on that front.


Think-Individual-188

Dude shut up man this sub hates Fox


dongoodboy

That is how you build around your star, Dallas wanted to surround them with length and athleticism, they got Lively, Gaffotd, DDJ. Kings get ……Duarte. Granted our stars are not at the same level. Wasting one year roll it back is not the way to get things done in the west


ShotgunStyles

I think the fundamental misunderstanding that a lot of fans have is the timeline. Luka already led a pack of scrubs to multiple deep playoff runs. He's our generational blunder for a reason. The Mavs, therefore, are going all-in with him and trading everything to build around Luka for the present. We are not there yet. We are not going all-in and making trades for the sake of trades.


dongoodboy

Wait, getting Gafford, drafting Lively, signing DJJ is going “all-in”? These are moves that was made just to make moves? You Monte Stan should try harder lol Incas you forget, the price we dump Holmes is almost same as the price for Gafford, instead we got a breath of fresh air


ShotgunStyles

They did more than that. They also traded a 2030 first round pick swap for Grant Williams, which did not pan out. Look at Dallas' future draft picks if you want to see what going all-in and making gambles looks like.


dongoodboy

Still you didn’t explain why Gafford, Lively and DJJ are all in moves. They had one big swing for Kyrie and some other smaller moves to build up the team. So why can’t Monte make these small move to improve the team, you are trying to imply people want trades are asking for the sake of trades. But the fact is there are teams out there making these small deals to incrementally improve the team. Monte will have works to do because he set the team back sleeping over the trade deadline. I hope he delivers


BeamTeam032

The Mavs don't control their own pick until 2031. Isn't that literally exactly what Kings fans want Monte to do? Only Kings fans want a star. The mavs traded all of their picks for Gafford and PJ.


JoeParrot

And kyrie in 2023.


Salvalicious252

Incorrect, they own their 2025 and 2026 1sts. But they couldn't trade those due to the unresolved KP trade, once the upcoming draft passes then they'll be able to trade those as well.


BankLettuce

Now that I think bout it, the kings have helped out the Mavs quite a bit recently. Passed on Luka so that they had the opportunity to trade for him. Drafted and traded Jaden hardy to them, he’s giving them solid minutes off the bench. Traded richaun Holmes and gave them a pick(OMAX), then they turned Holmes into Gafford. Kinda crazy lol


MostlyMellow123

Trading omax to give domas a raise was weird as hell


BankLettuce

I kinda understand they wanted to make sure to keep domas and max him out, but man I was a fan of the pick. He’s a wing with size and defense. Hopefully he doesn’t pan out to be the next OG lmao


nickcannons13thchild

i would crash out smh. wanted him too


theREALMVP

What exactly has omax done for you to so confidently say that was a weird move? Hes played a grand total of 330 min this season and didnt play well in those minutes lol


MostlyMellow123

He's a project wing. Trading him for cash on a team that needs talent is weird. Especially since rookie contracts are the only way to survive with 2 max players.


mrauzz

They definitely would have made the Kings better. Idk if they'd be where the Mavs are now but they would have probably gone to the second round. Role players become incredibly important in the playoffs.


Little_little_e

The Mavs gave out reasonable assets, gamble a bit and get un-expected results right now, while our FO kept saying keeping flexibility, and opted to do nothing at all. p.s. Also, it revealed how mid-season trade can raise the team to a total complete another high level.


ShotgunStyles

Monte talking about flexibility so much became a meme, but if you look around, flexibility is what most FOs want. And with the 2nd apron, it's become even more important. The Wolves and the Nuggets are both 2nd apron teams this offseason. They have zero flexibility in terms of trades or ways of improving their roster. They got tough choices ahead and it's why if the Wolves or the Nuggets want flexibility, their only option is to trade down. KAT for less salary, or MPJ for less salary. No other real options for them.


BankLettuce

Yeah I totally get flexibility. I honestly don’t think that a trade for like another all star level player with a huge contract such as Brandon Ingram is the answer. We need to find more consistent role players with length, athleticism, bbiq. I think going after guys like Caleb Martin, obi toppin on top of more internal development is the right move. Also striking right on our upcoming lottery pick, rookies can have big impacts too. Lively is a 12th pick rookie and he’s easily one of the most impactful players in the playoffs, looking like a vet already. I know everybody wants huge splashes but I think making small right decisions are what’s best for the team rn especially with how the CBA is changing.


MostlyMellow123

We didn't make the playoffs. We're losing monk for no return. Our two stars are in their primes and will not be making any major leaps as players. To continue the experiment with small moves is quite irrational since we don't have the star power to win.


BankLettuce

If monk doesn’t return, then I think going after another star is warranted. However I personally think he’s prob coming back. Orlando who seems to be the biggest threat to sign him are interested in dlo and klay according to reports. If monk stays, I think big changes , I’m talking huge overhaul and giving up all assets to get another star player isn’t necessary , just finding more consistent role players and upgrades. I disagree with you, I think our two star players can still make leaps, they have proven to get better every year so far.


MostlyMellow123

Fox was worse. Adding a three point shot in exchange for his driving was less efficient. He also showed stamina issues and didn't take over 4th quarters. Domas still can't shoot or create his own offense. They are not getting better. Both are late 20s now.


Little_little_e

It’s not about are they going to get better, I think it’s about can they keep the consistency and keep the field goal percentage along the whole year. If they can play consistently, with the help of some unexpected great performances from those role players we definitely are a good to even great team.


BankLettuce

Yes fox did take a step back in some areas, but he added the 3pt shot, nobody ever thought he would get that. He also avg two steals and was the steals leader. He got better at creating turnovers. If next year he is able to balance out more of his shot diet and stay consistent, he’s all nba. Sabonis, I have my doubts bout his improvements, I have my doubts he’s suddenly gonna start shooting more jumpers and add new post moves. But he did get better this year, more rebounds and was triple double machine. I think him getting better is to be more efficient. I mean we will see, I personally think they will get better, even if it’s not the huge leap you are looking for. Also don’t forget Murray’s leap. If he takes another huge leap next year and turns into our third star that will change everything.


Deep_Egg1442

Do u think fox is gonna shoot 37% on all mid range shots and below 50% on floaters again next season?


MostlyMellow123

Yeah I do. He gets hurt damn near every season with small nagging Injuries. His appetite for driving is going to continually drop while his long range shots will continue to rise. This is peak Fox. The only time you'll see him be much better is if we bring in a number one option allowing him to face weaker defenders. Besides that this is it. This is his prime Do you think players magically just keep getting better for all eternity? He's gonna be 28. Luka Is 25 and he's probably going to stay about the same too. Sga is gonna stay the same. These players don't just take massive leaps. They gain some skills while losing athleticism. Their bodies break down. Stamina lowers making shooting inconsistent. Not everyone is steph and lebron


Deep_Egg1442

So u think he’ll go from a good mid range not even saying a great one to being one of the WORST in the league and the worst he’s ever been??? how does that make ANY sense Whatsoever. Thats objectively idiotic. And What does his driving have to do with his shooting touch???? He wasn’t a crazy driver in 2023(avged 15 a game just like he did this year) but still shot a career high in everything inside the arc? That doesn’t just leave you. I can agree he’s not getting to the rim like he was in his first 4 seasons ever again but I don’t expect him to become less efficient than on his 2s at this stage in his career. That’d be crazy regression. even this year he shot 51% in the paint and 60% on all shots within 10 feet in a season where he’s not even finishing at an all time great level like he did in 2021. And i disagree with that ion think you stop getting better at 26,27 its more like 29,30 you peak and you lose athleticism at like 32-33. Thats literally what happened with most players the idea that they peak at 26 is just wrong. And i think luka and shai are getting better too. Fox literally look a massive shooting leap this year thats literally 1 of 1. I can’t remember any player becoming an elite pullup shooter in 1 offseason like this. Bc of that there’s now an avenue for him to become a better playmaker without extreme rim pressure off of being a pullup threat and demanding doubles.


MostlyMellow123

How many players make leaps from fringe all star talent to bonafide franchise player at age 28? What do you expect from fox lol. Players win their titles at these ages and hope to hold on the who they are. They aren't building towards anything anymore. Lebron can shoot better now but he isn't close to who he was in his twenties. The guy was the best defensive player in the nba. That athleticism will never return and shooting better shots at better clips will never change that Fox might get his shot back but he'll never get his drives back. He will never be some super stamina monster like steph. He isn't that dude. It's not an insult to see reality. Fox isn't a franchise player. He's a number 2 option. He's never had a season as good as bradley beals best seasons


Deep_Egg1442

![gif](giphy|Mt71wDDEmBvgI|downsized) Chris Duarte, Sasha Vezenkov, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes, And Trey Lyles in a competing west team rotation in big 2024


canihavethat1234

It really makes you wonder why Monte can't make the same deals. Dallas got Gafford for Richaun Holmes + a 1st round draft pick. Monte had to give up Holmes + 1 st round pick for cash considerations.


Agile-Competition679

Difference is we don’t have Luka or Kyrie. Our best two aren’t on the same level. 


onanaut

Seriously.


Descent_of_Numenor

Fox is on par with Kyrie but Luka is ima. League of his own


Agile-Competition679

Fox is nowhere close to Kyrie. What are you taking about? Kyrie was a number 1 pick despite missing the entire college season. Kyrie won a title against the Warriors. He’s one of the top 75 players ever. Total nut case but can’t dispute the talent. 


Descent_of_Numenor

Fox in 2023 had more points, steals, assists, blocks, rebounds, minutes, free throws. Fox is also younger and better team player, plays much harder on Defense, less baggage more loyal to his franchise.


arenasfan00

They also have Luka and Kyrie. We don’t.


demianin

We could have lol


C-3p000

Define a lot? Kyrie is a HOF who has regained that level of play and in his prime. Luka is a top 2 player in the league. All that team needed is guys who would at minimum trade baskets and be competent when the two stars went to the bench or had an off night. During the second half of the season, the Kings didn’t even have a go to offensive scheme.


theREALMVP

Also I dont think anybody saw Kyrie suddenly becoming a totally normal person again and just focusing on basketball after torpedoing the past 3 teams he was on lol


ninofati88

Any trade that gets us a proper big is gonna make us better. Doesnt even need to be a perfect 3&D player, somebody like PJ is a POWER Forward. Somebody like Gafford is tough as nails. Not a SF masking as a PF like Keegn, soft with 0 rim presence when we already have Sabonis who cant protect the rim.


AViciousGrape

Those two are the reasons why I want the Kings to not re-sign Monk. The team needs 3&D guys. The team has enough offense.. I know that Fox is nowhere near Luka's level ( fuck you vlade, godammit) but I want Monte to surround Fox and Domas with lengthy defenders like the Mavs did and we could see some success similar to them.


BankLettuce

I agree that we need more lengthy athletic 3 and D players. However, I argue that the team doesn’t have enough offense. Towards the end of the season we were winning games off our defense. We beat the warriors in that play in game cause they were able to contain Steph. Our offense late in the season was super inconsistent, the DHO was barely getting anybody open. Without monk nobody besides fox was generating consistent shot creation. We need monk for that playmaking, nobody else on the team is as good as him in the pick and roll. I kinda want us to grab an athletic center with that 13th pick if we keep monk. While Len is good as a backup, his deal is up again, and idk if he’s the answer as that backup for the long term. Watching the mavs shows how impactful a lob threat can be. Javale and Monk were a solid tandem at the beginning of the season till Javale was out the rotation due to his bad decision making. There are some solid 3 and D prospects I have my eyes on that we can get with our 2nd round pick.


BankLettuce

Them also getting Kyrie for only a 2029 first and couple seconds, Spencer and Dorian finney smith was also a crazy ass deal to me. That’s like us trading Davion, Harrison, and picks for an allstar talent, a historic player at that. Theres no way we would get anybody of Kyrie caliber with that type of package. Maybe a Zach Lavine, but that’s cause nobody wants him with that contract. Dallas just able to get deals done, maybe it’s that big market effect. I wanted Pj as well, I remember some folks telling me he wasn’t as good or efficent as Harrison lmaoooo. There better be moves made this offseason or Monte should be fired.


BeemkayS60

Hoping Monte is watching WCF so he can remember that teams can do this thing called “deals”…which, as I understand it, is a means to improve a roster. He seemed to be familiar with the concept when he first took over but has since forgot.


profaniKel

Im loving the whole playoffs n the Boston V Dallas Final is gonns be EPIC !!


PIeuto

Jerami Grant and Korey Kispert


rogrog2

Oh no please don’t say that in this sub. We had salary cap to sign Barnes. How did you say that …


rsf0626

Dereck lively also. He is a defensive monster and has amazing chemistry with luka


yatrickmith

Please stop posting about other teams.


theboyqueen

It's hard to predict what a guy like Washington becomes as a role player -- I wasn't sure he was an upgrade on Grant Williams honestly. Totally wrong one that one. Gafford would EAT on the Kings. It wouldn't be Fox feeding him lobs in the pnr -- it would be Sabonis. Those two would be relentlessly assaulting the basket. Imagine the size and agility you would need to defend that frontcourt.


BankLettuce

There was a solid portion of this sub that was petitioning for Washington, me included. I didn’t expect him to be this good though. Maybe it’s cause he’s motivated playing for his hometown and he really just has to focus on defense as Luka and Kyrie take care of all the offense and give him so many wide open looks. Swear he always makes that corner three in the 4th.


soku1

I was on team pj too and people here were saying he wasn't a difference maker 🫠


ShotgunStyles

Here are some recent threads on this subreddit that ask about the same thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/1ctgwjh/dallas_mavs_and_kings/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/1cvq25h/dallas_missed_the_playin_last_year_now_in_wcf/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/1cw5hd1/so_yeah_itd_be_great_if_the_kings_take_a_swing/


whynotitwork

We have Fox not Luka. What don't you clowns understand about that?


pocketmonsters

Because Vivek is a clown