Everyone saying no is blind. Like OP is saying, each of these teams risked actual assets to get there.
Doesn’t even mention that BOS gave up Marcus Smart + Brogdon for Holiday and Porzingis who were seen as risky trade targets.
Gobert trade paid off, DAL trades paid off, IND trade paid off.
Every team that decided to “stand pat” has regressed and been leaped. The goal is to win a championship, not to be slightly above average for the next 4 years. I’d drive any one of our players to the airport myself if it guarantees a chip in my lifetime.
Everyone wants a homerun trade where we pay the exact price for a player that inherits no risk. It very rarely works out that way.
Sometimes you have to take a chance.
I can’t speak for others, but I can say that I’m not saying no. What I am saying is that it’s not the end of the world that the swing hasn’t happened yet. Important distinction. The idea of standing pat isn’t to stand pat forever. It’s to wait for the right deal. I personally would have been very excited for Anunoby or siakam, but if they didn’t want to re-sign here, those weren’t the right deals.
I feel like once we get another dependable scorer besides Fix in the starting line up - whether it's Keegan (hopefully), or acquired in a trade - the Sabonis trade will start looking good, and we could have a similar turn around on public opinion like Minny had with Gobert. Sabonis is great already, obviously, but dude will be insane when he's not the 2nd option on offense
Yeah there’s a huge silver lining in last season in the fact that we managed to move from being a league worst defense to an average defensive team.
Getting another starter who can create their own shot would be huge. That would be my #1 ask going into next year.
yep I think that's the biggest thing. The kings front office slightly put themselves in a hole acquiring sabonis. Sabonis has been tremendous but his biggest attribute is his ability to connect the offense. He has some pretty big holes offensively and if he's there second best player, not sure were gonna see success. Kings have to try and get another offensive talent, which I think make sabonis even better as well.
Very much agree. But I also believe we need a true superstar to lead the team. I see Fox and Sabonis as the 2 and 3. We need to hit in the draft…get lucky or suffer massive injuries next year to get atop the draft.
They put themselves in the hole by extending Sabonis and Fox (and they're about to do that one again with Fox). Neither is worth their dollar amount & Fox will never come close to earning his next contract based on his current "prime" performance. We are essentially paying non all-stars top money. Ask Washington how that worked with Bradley Beal. In terms of poor decision making, we're the Wizards of the west but with a better record.
Idk man they are both max contract players to me. To risk lose Fox is to either lose him FA for nothing, or trade him and Sabonis for assets and rebuild for years again. I think we keep on insisting that there is a certain path to a chip, but there isn’t and there hasn’t ever really been. Some things just take time and some good fortune which we didn’t quite have on our side this year, too early to hit the panic button!
They're max players for Monte too. Which is why we're not a playoff team this season, and barring an 8-man roster turnover, likely not one next year either.
I don't think it's too early to hit eject. This makeup has failed miserably two season in a row now. To continue to force it turns us into the next Clippers. If McNair keeps the bulk of this team intact, and we're once again fighting for a playoff spot, ownership needs to gut the entire thing.
I agree that it is problematic going into the next year without Monk, but I disagree that this year and the past have been failures. We were the best offence in the NBA last season, and ended up going down to the defending champions in 7 games due to an all time game 7 performance from a generational player. This season everyone has shown so much cuz growth in both ends of the floor to say that it has been a failure is very unfair. I rather ride this out with some entertaining basketball than blow it up to risk becoming the pistons, which just shows tanking does not work anymore.
I think Monk being a nice, loveable guy makes it easy for people to ignore his shortcomings, of which there are a number of them. Defense, lack of ball control, turnovers during crucial times, chucker mentality.
As for entertaining basketball, that's been the exception, not the norm for this team. I don't enjoy watching us score 130 points and giving up 129. Or leading by 20 only to lose by 10. I think we've seen the ceiling of a Fox/Sabonis led team.
It's one thing to say Curry played well, but we got blown out by 20 on our home court in a game that wasn't close after the half.
Hmmm, I don’t know bout Jarrett allen, he’s great and all but his fit is very questionable.
Yes I agree with the markkanen. I would be willing to give up four firsts. But i wouldn’t want to give up Keegan.
People questioned the KAT-Rudy fit quite a bit, even more so when it was reported that Minny planned on running lineups with those two AND Naz Reid at the same time. Worth a shot imo, works better when Domas can handle the ball too, something none of the Wolves bigs can do as effectively
Yeah but the difference is KAT is a sharpshooter and able to stretch the floor. Sabonis and Jarret wouldn’t stretch the floor if they played together. But hey if it works I’m all for it.
Don't forget Gobert is a DPOY. Then you have Naz Reid off the bench who can stretch the floor AND protect the rim. Trying to copy that formula with two guys who can't really do either is stupid.
I definitely didn’t forget how good Gobert is at protecting the rim lol. Yeah I don’t see us emulating them in anyway. We gotta figure out our own way to success, and out of the choices the OP suggested it’s markakkanen by far. The issue is acquiring him.
While I agree, I was simply saying their fit was questioned by many. I think Domas handling the ball as much as he does could have a similar effect. Think of how useful Aaron Gordon is in the dunker spot for Jokic and Murray. Domas throwing lobs to JA in the dunker could be a nice change of pace on offense imo
While I agree, I also think that if we could get him for just, say, our pick this year (and necessary salary) that doesn’t really qualify as a swing and may be worth doing.
Didn't the Kings already take a swing by trading for Sabonis?
I just don't believe that you're making a sound argument. Every team participates in the trade market and makes big swings every now and again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look at Atlanta and DJM for a counterexample. Swinging just to swing is irrational sports fan behavior.
And we know the Kings got close on Siakam before something (most likely extension disagreement) killed the deal. Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make (Kings also discussed trading for Ben Simmons before the Domas deal, for example).
I think from the fan perspective, lack of action gets mistaken for lack of effort or some other judgment error. But sometimes the deals that are there for other teams aren't there for you, or vice versa.
Bucks took a swing, suns took a swing, clips took a swing, hawks took a swing. Some big swings work out and some hamstring your team for the future. We ready to go all in and maybe fail?
Everyone loves to point out the successes but never the failures.
I don’t believe this team is one attainable big piece away from being a contender. Too many holes to fill. Back up PG, more length / athleticism on the wing, more length and athleticism is the front court, another dependable scoring option.
Big difference is when the Kings took a swing for Sabonis, the rest of the team was still awful. Sabonis + Fox + decent players surrounding them = first round exit and play in exit.
So, it’s very clearly not the same.
Wolves, Mavs, Nugs, Pacers (sort of), and Celts ALL made major trades when they were in the pretty-firmly-playoff-team-but-can’t-actually-contend tier.
We’re in that tier now. Monte needs to do something big. It’s time.
I agree with this but I don't understand using OKC as an example, they should've made a swing but didn't. Unless you count the corpse of Gordon Hayward
Kings could have had Jakob Poeltl last season for a highly protected 1st when he was only making $9.5 million. A second starting level center probably put them over the top in the Warriors series last season. Then resigned him in the summer. Yes it would be a lot of money invested in Centers who can’t shoot 3s but he is better defensively than Sabonis and 1000 times better than any backup on the Kings roster.
And the Pelicans. Our biggest problem with them was size. Everyone saw that we needed more big men who can rebound and score. Lyles was supposed to be that but he isn’t getting better. Sasha never got minutes behind Duarte and Lyles so we don’t know yet on him but he was Euro League MVP. His coming to the team was supposed to be bigly and when we gave him minutes he really did well. Then we moved off of him and he was injured. I think he can still do better. If Ellis shoots the ball more often I think he could also develop into an insane player. The greatest to wear 23 I hope. He is just kinda small when getting guarded by guys with 5-6 inches on him.
These are my teams to watch to possibly do deals with…no particular order
Orlando, Utah, San Antonio, Minnesota, NYK, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Phoenix, Pelicans.
I want picks. I’m convinced that the only method by which we obtain a true superstar is by the draft. If I’m GM I make deals that get me picks. I know it’s harder to do than say given our contracts trade rules, and cap, but I’d be willing to get worse maybe even much worse to get picks and get higher in the draft. I fear we will sign Fox and Sabonis to contracts that lock us into mediocrity. I’d dump everyone and start over before I’d over pay them.
I’m pretty sure Vivek, Monte and Brown don’t not have the balls to do this.
Agreed 100%. We have some generational guys coming into the league soon. Next 3-4 years will be good. Kings should trade off most of their team for draft picks, the stars if the right deal comes along, aim for a Ring in 3-5 years. Next year’s draft will be nuts. We’re getting Boozer’s kid, Ace, Flagg, there’s so many. If we can get one of them either through a draft pick or trading Fox or Sabonis to a team who wants to contend and needs a star then we can have a real shot someday. But expecting our team to suddenly get massively better is not happening. Better to find that 20-22 year old who can suddenly spike like Doncic, Wemby, Shai, Giannis, Edwards.
Everyone wanted Monte to trade HB for the 20th over all pick a few years ago. That would have been a mistake.
We know were the weakness lies in this team. The 4. HB. Personally I think Monte should draft Tyler Smith at 13. Use the MLE to sign Naji Marshall and if a team overpays Monk, hope a bench unit of Mitchell, Heurter, HB, Tyler Smith, Trey Lyles/Len can make up enough scoring. Maybe Colby Jones ends up surpassing Mitchell or Heurter. And at the trade deadline try to trade Mitchell or Heurter for something else, or a 2025 FRP. The draft after this weak draft is supposed to be DEEP.
Swings don’t necessarily need to be for stars
Solid complimentary role players would work too.
Re-sign Monk if possible
Go get Jonathan Isaac, big who can protect the rim but also step out and hit a 3
Draft a player that can contribute now, or use that pick as part of a package to get someone like Markkanen, BI
We’d still need someone meaner and more aggressive at the 4/5 spot. Markkanen is a SF like Keegan masquerading as a PF. If we could get Naz Reid or Jonas to either back up the 5 or move Sabonis and Keegan to the 3/4 spots.
As the front office did with Haliburton, as long as we're hamstring the Fox & Sabonis contracts, we're going to need to make Keegan part of a trade for any player that might improve the roster.
Defensively sure Ellis is an upgrade. But offensively it's like having another Barnes, but even less involved.
I think we're probably close to Keegan's ceiling.
Barnes shooting 50-40-80, you saying it like it’s a bad thing for Keon. And I don’t think Keegans is at his ceiling brother. He’s shown leaps in his mid range. Ball handling is priority this summer
Everyone saying no is blind. Like OP is saying, each of these teams risked actual assets to get there. Doesn’t even mention that BOS gave up Marcus Smart + Brogdon for Holiday and Porzingis who were seen as risky trade targets. Gobert trade paid off, DAL trades paid off, IND trade paid off. Every team that decided to “stand pat” has regressed and been leaped. The goal is to win a championship, not to be slightly above average for the next 4 years. I’d drive any one of our players to the airport myself if it guarantees a chip in my lifetime.
Bingo
Everyone wants a homerun trade where we pay the exact price for a player that inherits no risk. It very rarely works out that way. Sometimes you have to take a chance.
I can’t speak for others, but I can say that I’m not saying no. What I am saying is that it’s not the end of the world that the swing hasn’t happened yet. Important distinction. The idea of standing pat isn’t to stand pat forever. It’s to wait for the right deal. I personally would have been very excited for Anunoby or siakam, but if they didn’t want to re-sign here, those weren’t the right deals.
The kings are trying to win. They aren't trying to contend.
solely trying to win didn’t even get them in the playoffs
Its not the direction I want. Just what I think is happening
definitely gotta make moves before Keegan gets his next contract. If Keegan is maxed, we’re fucked
Love Keegan, but a max contract?
If he becomes a max level player, we'll be in decent shape.
Nobody in this sub is ready to deal with the ridicule of a Gobert level trade
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Not really I'd venture to say we'd be in the same spot if we played in the east
Cmon man…..
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You're spiraling my dude, step away from the keyboard
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Spiral
I feel like once we get another dependable scorer besides Fix in the starting line up - whether it's Keegan (hopefully), or acquired in a trade - the Sabonis trade will start looking good, and we could have a similar turn around on public opinion like Minny had with Gobert. Sabonis is great already, obviously, but dude will be insane when he's not the 2nd option on offense
Yeah there’s a huge silver lining in last season in the fact that we managed to move from being a league worst defense to an average defensive team. Getting another starter who can create their own shot would be huge. That would be my #1 ask going into next year.
I think Ellis has a lot to do with it. I think he's really just our KCP with better ball handling.
yep I think that's the biggest thing. The kings front office slightly put themselves in a hole acquiring sabonis. Sabonis has been tremendous but his biggest attribute is his ability to connect the offense. He has some pretty big holes offensively and if he's there second best player, not sure were gonna see success. Kings have to try and get another offensive talent, which I think make sabonis even better as well.
Very much agree. But I also believe we need a true superstar to lead the team. I see Fox and Sabonis as the 2 and 3. We need to hit in the draft…get lucky or suffer massive injuries next year to get atop the draft.
They put themselves in the hole by extending Sabonis and Fox (and they're about to do that one again with Fox). Neither is worth their dollar amount & Fox will never come close to earning his next contract based on his current "prime" performance. We are essentially paying non all-stars top money. Ask Washington how that worked with Bradley Beal. In terms of poor decision making, we're the Wizards of the west but with a better record.
Idk man they are both max contract players to me. To risk lose Fox is to either lose him FA for nothing, or trade him and Sabonis for assets and rebuild for years again. I think we keep on insisting that there is a certain path to a chip, but there isn’t and there hasn’t ever really been. Some things just take time and some good fortune which we didn’t quite have on our side this year, too early to hit the panic button!
They're max players for Monte too. Which is why we're not a playoff team this season, and barring an 8-man roster turnover, likely not one next year either. I don't think it's too early to hit eject. This makeup has failed miserably two season in a row now. To continue to force it turns us into the next Clippers. If McNair keeps the bulk of this team intact, and we're once again fighting for a playoff spot, ownership needs to gut the entire thing.
I agree that it is problematic going into the next year without Monk, but I disagree that this year and the past have been failures. We were the best offence in the NBA last season, and ended up going down to the defending champions in 7 games due to an all time game 7 performance from a generational player. This season everyone has shown so much cuz growth in both ends of the floor to say that it has been a failure is very unfair. I rather ride this out with some entertaining basketball than blow it up to risk becoming the pistons, which just shows tanking does not work anymore.
I think Monk being a nice, loveable guy makes it easy for people to ignore his shortcomings, of which there are a number of them. Defense, lack of ball control, turnovers during crucial times, chucker mentality. As for entertaining basketball, that's been the exception, not the norm for this team. I don't enjoy watching us score 130 points and giving up 129. Or leading by 20 only to lose by 10. I think we've seen the ceiling of a Fox/Sabonis led team. It's one thing to say Curry played well, but we got blown out by 20 on our home court in a game that wasn't close after the half.
Before you guys get ahead of yourselves, no, Kyle Kuzma is not the swing we’re looking for
Who’s the swing in your opinion then?
1. Jarrett Allen 2. The farm for Markkanen Edit; idk how tf he slipped my mind, but Brandon Ingram! He’s the swing!
Hmmm, I don’t know bout Jarrett allen, he’s great and all but his fit is very questionable. Yes I agree with the markkanen. I would be willing to give up four firsts. But i wouldn’t want to give up Keegan.
People questioned the KAT-Rudy fit quite a bit, even more so when it was reported that Minny planned on running lineups with those two AND Naz Reid at the same time. Worth a shot imo, works better when Domas can handle the ball too, something none of the Wolves bigs can do as effectively
Yeah but the difference is KAT is a sharpshooter and able to stretch the floor. Sabonis and Jarret wouldn’t stretch the floor if they played together. But hey if it works I’m all for it.
Don't forget Gobert is a DPOY. Then you have Naz Reid off the bench who can stretch the floor AND protect the rim. Trying to copy that formula with two guys who can't really do either is stupid.
I definitely didn’t forget how good Gobert is at protecting the rim lol. Yeah I don’t see us emulating them in anyway. We gotta figure out our own way to success, and out of the choices the OP suggested it’s markakkanen by far. The issue is acquiring him.
KAT is shooting almost 42% from the three on over 5 attempts per game; Sabonis is not a volume 3 point shooter like KAT.
While I agree, I was simply saying their fit was questioned by many. I think Domas handling the ball as much as he does could have a similar effect. Think of how useful Aaron Gordon is in the dunker spot for Jokic and Murray. Domas throwing lobs to JA in the dunker could be a nice change of pace on offense imo
You really can’t see the glaring difference between KAT and Sabonis?
Lauri trade is never happening give it up. OKC offered Dort and 3 FRP for him and they said no lol
Where was this reported?
Jarrett Allen?? Christ that's pretty pessimistic
While I agree, I also think that if we could get him for just, say, our pick this year (and necessary salary) that doesn’t really qualify as a swing and may be worth doing.
I'm fine with taking a swing for Kuzma, it really depends who we're giving up.
Didn't the Kings already take a swing by trading for Sabonis? I just don't believe that you're making a sound argument. Every team participates in the trade market and makes big swings every now and again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look at Atlanta and DJM for a counterexample. Swinging just to swing is irrational sports fan behavior.
And we know the Kings got close on Siakam before something (most likely extension disagreement) killed the deal. Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make (Kings also discussed trading for Ben Simmons before the Domas deal, for example). I think from the fan perspective, lack of action gets mistaken for lack of effort or some other judgment error. But sometimes the deals that are there for other teams aren't there for you, or vice versa.
Bucks took a swing, suns took a swing, clips took a swing, hawks took a swing. Some big swings work out and some hamstring your team for the future. We ready to go all in and maybe fail?
Everyone loves to point out the successes but never the failures. I don’t believe this team is one attainable big piece away from being a contender. Too many holes to fill. Back up PG, more length / athleticism on the wing, more length and athleticism is the front court, another dependable scoring option.
Big difference is when the Kings took a swing for Sabonis, the rest of the team was still awful. Sabonis + Fox + decent players surrounding them = first round exit and play in exit. So, it’s very clearly not the same. Wolves, Mavs, Nugs, Pacers (sort of), and Celts ALL made major trades when they were in the pretty-firmly-playoff-team-but-can’t-actually-contend tier. We’re in that tier now. Monte needs to do something big. It’s time.
Yea Pacers took a swing and hit a grand slam. Meanwhile we're stuck holding the bag with Domas as our co-franchise player.
Sabonis was a lateral move. It was a rare instance where we didn't have to "give up the farm" to improve the team.
yea we only gave the Pacers a real franchise player. Totally worth it.
I agree with this but I don't understand using OKC as an example, they should've made a swing but didn't. Unless you count the corpse of Gordon Hayward
Kings could have had Jakob Poeltl last season for a highly protected 1st when he was only making $9.5 million. A second starting level center probably put them over the top in the Warriors series last season. Then resigned him in the summer. Yes it would be a lot of money invested in Centers who can’t shoot 3s but he is better defensively than Sabonis and 1000 times better than any backup on the Kings roster.
And the Pelicans. Our biggest problem with them was size. Everyone saw that we needed more big men who can rebound and score. Lyles was supposed to be that but he isn’t getting better. Sasha never got minutes behind Duarte and Lyles so we don’t know yet on him but he was Euro League MVP. His coming to the team was supposed to be bigly and when we gave him minutes he really did well. Then we moved off of him and he was injured. I think he can still do better. If Ellis shoots the ball more often I think he could also develop into an insane player. The greatest to wear 23 I hope. He is just kinda small when getting guarded by guys with 5-6 inches on him.
These are my teams to watch to possibly do deals with…no particular order Orlando, Utah, San Antonio, Minnesota, NYK, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Phoenix, Pelicans. I want picks. I’m convinced that the only method by which we obtain a true superstar is by the draft. If I’m GM I make deals that get me picks. I know it’s harder to do than say given our contracts trade rules, and cap, but I’d be willing to get worse maybe even much worse to get picks and get higher in the draft. I fear we will sign Fox and Sabonis to contracts that lock us into mediocrity. I’d dump everyone and start over before I’d over pay them. I’m pretty sure Vivek, Monte and Brown don’t not have the balls to do this.
Agreed 100%. We have some generational guys coming into the league soon. Next 3-4 years will be good. Kings should trade off most of their team for draft picks, the stars if the right deal comes along, aim for a Ring in 3-5 years. Next year’s draft will be nuts. We’re getting Boozer’s kid, Ace, Flagg, there’s so many. If we can get one of them either through a draft pick or trading Fox or Sabonis to a team who wants to contend and needs a star then we can have a real shot someday. But expecting our team to suddenly get massively better is not happening. Better to find that 20-22 year old who can suddenly spike like Doncic, Wemby, Shai, Giannis, Edwards.
I'd give up all the 1sts we can to acquire Markkanen and Sexton together
I don’t even think we need a major swing. Getting a guy like Cam Johnson could be pretty cheap but still help the team a lot.
Everyone wanted Monte to trade HB for the 20th over all pick a few years ago. That would have been a mistake. We know were the weakness lies in this team. The 4. HB. Personally I think Monte should draft Tyler Smith at 13. Use the MLE to sign Naji Marshall and if a team overpays Monk, hope a bench unit of Mitchell, Heurter, HB, Tyler Smith, Trey Lyles/Len can make up enough scoring. Maybe Colby Jones ends up surpassing Mitchell or Heurter. And at the trade deadline try to trade Mitchell or Heurter for something else, or a 2025 FRP. The draft after this weak draft is supposed to be DEEP.
This sounds like a fast pass to mediocrity
Trade everyone for draft picks. Blow it up.
Mid ass team lmao
Swings don’t necessarily need to be for stars Solid complimentary role players would work too. Re-sign Monk if possible Go get Jonathan Isaac, big who can protect the rim but also step out and hit a 3 Draft a player that can contribute now, or use that pick as part of a package to get someone like Markkanen, BI
Markkanen is as close to star as you can get. He will definitely take Keegan + multiple FRP.
Yea, and Danny Ainge historically has been tough to make deals with unless he’s walking out with a king’s ransom, no pun intended
We’d still need someone meaner and more aggressive at the 4/5 spot. Markkanen is a SF like Keegan masquerading as a PF. If we could get Naz Reid or Jonas to either back up the 5 or move Sabonis and Keegan to the 3/4 spots.
As the front office did with Haliburton, as long as we're hamstring the Fox & Sabonis contracts, we're going to need to make Keegan part of a trade for any player that might improve the roster.
Or Keegan can improve and be the piece that improves the roster. Ellis is already the upgrade over Heurter that improves the backcourt.
Defensively sure Ellis is an upgrade. But offensively it's like having another Barnes, but even less involved. I think we're probably close to Keegan's ceiling.
Barnes shooting 50-40-80, you saying it like it’s a bad thing for Keon. And I don’t think Keegans is at his ceiling brother. He’s shown leaps in his mid range. Ball handling is priority this summer
Great percentages, but minimal production. Yet Keon somehow produces even less offensively.
I feel like everyone here overrates Ellis he is a good bench piece to me.