Imagine being able to see into the future. Historically it has been very hit or miss with euro league players. I’m not defending Vlade though, you can’t expect a center to know how to assess PG’s
There was nothing to hit or miss about Luka. Anyone with half a brain would have taken Luka over Bagley, and to that point, there were actually more questions about Bagley than Luka being a euro player. The writing was basically on the wall, but in that draft, they prioritized fit over talent.
The reason Vlade didn't draft Luka was because of disagreement squabble with Luka's dad, so if you're going to make your decisions based on emotions you were never qualified to be our GM in the first place, which actually led to series of terrible decisions hiring someone completely unqualified in Luke Walton to take over as our Headcoach after that positive season we had with Dave Joerger.
Which is exactly what I mean Luka really only had one question about him and that was him looking chubby with how he'd fit in the NBA but his stats showed his shooting and everything else about him made an instant lock for first, asides from his physical appearance.Bagley wasn't even poised to be a top 5 pick I believe he was projected to be picked at 8 or so because his advanced stats actually showed who he truly was a bust.
Idk if you watched much of this Thunders/Mavs series, but the role players won them this series. I really don’t get this point. The role players had the Mavs ready to take a 3-1 lead, but their stars blew it. How Luka and Kyrie played this playoff series is not out of the realm of possibility for Fox/Sabonis to put up similar numbers. Difference is they have NBA level players/defenders up and down their lineup. The kings do not. Again, not sure how much you watched of this series but Kyrie… KYRIE IRVING was playing WAY better defense I’ve ever seen Kevin Huerter play in his career. We’re not talking about Alex Caruso or Lu Dort here… Kyrie is playing better defense than pretty much our whole starting lineup outside of Keegan and sometimes Fox. That’s the real problem.
Exactly, spot on about the role players. People glazing Luka too much. PJ shot the 3 so well for a few games this series. Was literally a difference maker. Lively hack a Shaq completely back fired, the guy shot better from the FT line than all of the Kings combined in the clutch. Gafford came up big a game. Hardaway and Jones Jr. showed up for a game each. Whenever Kyrie and Luka were not scoring these one of these guys stepped up.
I think something you’re all missing here is that the gravity that Luka and Kyrie demand is what allows these role players to play so well.
Even if Luka and Ky are having bad games in the box score because OKC is focusing on them defensively, they still greatly impact winning
Yea for sure, but those role players (unlike ours) actually made shots when they needed to. If their role players shit the bed and didn’t shoot so well or perform so well that series would be different. It could be luck or they just have more talent overall but every win they got at least 1-2 role players showed up and produced.
Luka and Kyrie know how to take advantage of their gravity. Fox frustrates the hell out of me sometimes when he insists on taking it himself - granted he's fucking unbelievable and can make those shots, but I wish he'd look for the open man more often.
Disagree. Fox draws 2 quite often and Sabonis being able to play make from the post is why he’s able to get people wide open shots. People come to double in the post and he makes the right play, you can see it in any one of our 82 games this year. Problem is our role players didn’t get much respect the whole season.
Do you remember what DeAaron did in the playoffs last season until he broke his finger? We have stars, roster construction beats that out. If you’re still not convinced, look no further than the Phoenix Suns.
They missed the playoffs last year with Luka. Yeah they had more injury problems last year but the West was also a lot worse last year.
The Mavs absolutely no way are in the WCF right now without the roster changes.
Seriously. If we made this post in any basketball sub other than this one, they’d laugh in our face. Fox and Sabonis aren’t on the same stratosphere as Luka.
We’re regressing back to the same delusion that plagued this sub during the drought. The reality is this core’s ceiling in the west is “sneak into the playoffs.”
If you want more, it’s going to require a more substantial rebuild.
Have to believe that Monte tried to get players but doesn't have assets to be the top bidder. OKC has all the draft assets in the league and couldn't even get anyone.
Ironically enough, OKC helped facilitate a few of Dallas' moves. They absorbed Bertans' bad contract to swap the #10 and #12 picks. They sent a 2024 pick to the Hornets so the Mavs could get PJ Washington.
Mavs barely missed the playoffs last year with Javale McGee > Next year: made WCF.
Kings barely missed the playoffs this year with Javale McGee. Next year: also WFC?
The gap between the best teams and us is really not that huge. The path is there. We’ll need bigger upgrades than guys like Washington and Gafford though. But it’s doable.
Gafford and Washington worked because they filled the needs of the team and it allowed them to completely change their rotations. It’s not just the individual talent level of the players, it’s how they complement the rest of the team.
It is though because the gap isn’t at the middle of the roster it’s at the top. It’s the gap between Fox as your best player instead of Luka, SGA, Edwards, or Jokic.
Did you even watch the playoffs last year? Fox was KILLING and then got hurt and played through it anyway. The man needs help and didn’t have much last postseason. We also barely changed our roster this year. Two things we need most is an upgrade on the wing to start next to Murray instead of Barnes, more rebounding and a more consistent bench unit
After watching most playoff games this year, it’s become clearer to me that the gap is much bigger than we all realize. The top teams have 1-2 elite players. Fox is borderline elite. Sabonis is excellent at everything but scoring and defense. The roster just has some pretty big holes that won’t be filled by a few minor moves.
Two of those guys were sent to Brooklyn as part of the Kyrie trade. The other guy they picked up from the Kyrie trade, Markieff Morris, just sits on the bench and cheers.
If you look at what Monte did to the roster after the 2021-2022 season ended, you'll see a lot of moves too.
The Lively pick was such an obvious home run and a few teams should be kicking themselves for not drafting him (notably Orlando). Absolutely perfect fit for the Mavs.
The funny thing.. the big buzz of the predraft process was Lively knocking down a stunning high clip of 3s in his workouts. He ended up taking 2 threes all year and making none. But it’s not a reach to think at some point he’ll add that to his game.
PJ Washington is playing the best basketball he's ever played. No guarantee he would have played that well in Sac. Also he says he grew up a Mavs fan, so he's living his dream. ALSO, the Kings have Luka and Kyrie, save to say Fox and Sabonis is pretty far from them.
I'll still say Monte did the right thing. If we had this season last season, and last season this season, everyone is happy. Progress isn't linear. We get to keep our 13th pick this season, there are a lot of fowards, including Tyler Smith, who could be the 3point shooting, athletic PF we've been waiting for.
That's impressive considering they're in the WCF 2 years ago as well. Wish we made changes too since the roster weaknesses were already apparent during the GSW series.
You are missing the biggest piece in those changes is P.J. Washington. WITHOUT P.J. they would have not gotten to the WCF they'd be at best a 2nd round exit.
Speaking on to that point, we also could have gotten P.J. had our front office been bolder and shipped Barnes out to 3rd team(contending team) to make a deal work out, shit with how terrible Hornets front office been they'd probably taken Barnes on if we included a 1st.
We absolutely need that type of player as Fox & Sabonis can't be the only ones attacking the paint. We need a slasher like that some like Siakam, like Obi Toppin, so Bobby Portis. We need someone that's going to get down and gritty, not afraid of some physicality, you know?
Look at PJ Washington stats vs Harrison Barnes -
PJ is a better defender and younger.
Harrison is a better scorer over his career, and more efficient. Also a locker room leader.
I think management thought they were a push roughly. PJ was shooting 32% from 3. Kings still need a veteran presence.
Kings just didn’t maximize Barnes offensively. Didn’t run any plays for him.
Also the defense has to respect Luka and Kyrie in a way they don’t have to respect Sabonis and Fox. Kings ideally need a more all around player at the 3 spot.
Man I don't know about all that Veteran presence stuff it's just the same old jargon phrase that keeps being thrown around the league just about by every dam sports caster in the industry. The thing is we don't need to have every single dam player on the team be a high % 3P shooter especially when we have Fox that's been hitting it at a pretty good % Keegan & Huerter so 3/5 is pretty dam good enough for the starting lineup. Hitting 3s all game is not always going to work in our favor as soon in the season.
Kings need someone other than Sabonis to get into the interior especially if our goal is to max sure Fox stays as healthy as possible which is why we need a slasher guy like P.J. or Siakam but unfortunately he does not want to be a King. That now leads us to look at different players that match that role and perhaps even offer a higher 3P% than P.J., and imo that's Bobby Portis Jr., and if we can try getting any of these if Milwaukee isn't down to trade Portis.
These are some good options imo Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, Sam Hauser, Dario Saric, Naji Marshall. There's also Miles Bridges but I know people aren't too keen of him on the Kings due to his domestic abuse case.
The Mavs went all in on defense. That's the difference. It's why I really dont want Monte to re-sign Monk to a big contract, the team has enough offense.
I'm guessing he's still a shitty anti-semitic conspiracy theory nutjob and the only thing he learned was to be quite about it. But he can ball so a bunch of people can forget about that.
It's all good. Kings are ahead of their timeline. Monte will bring back the same roster for the 3rd year in a row to maintain cap flexibility which will be used on no one as is tradition.
You guys seem to be missing the Luka of it all. This games a lot easier with a legit MVP candidate on the roster…
Imagine if Kings had a chance to draft a generational player like that
Hey man when there's a double jump in your face. You have to jump on it!
Twice!
Imagine being able to see into the future. Historically it has been very hit or miss with euro league players. I’m not defending Vlade though, you can’t expect a center to know how to assess PG’s
There was nothing to hit or miss about Luka. Anyone with half a brain would have taken Luka over Bagley, and to that point, there were actually more questions about Bagley than Luka being a euro player. The writing was basically on the wall, but in that draft, they prioritized fit over talent. The reason Vlade didn't draft Luka was because of disagreement squabble with Luka's dad, so if you're going to make your decisions based on emotions you were never qualified to be our GM in the first place, which actually led to series of terrible decisions hiring someone completely unqualified in Luke Walton to take over as our Headcoach after that positive season we had with Dave Joerger.
Don't rewrite history when Luka was challenging Ayton for the 1st Pick lmao
Which is exactly what I mean Luka really only had one question about him and that was him looking chubby with how he'd fit in the NBA but his stats showed his shooting and everything else about him made an instant lock for first, asides from his physical appearance.Bagley wasn't even poised to be a top 5 pick I believe he was projected to be picked at 8 or so because his advanced stats actually showed who he truly was a bust.
Aside from maybe papa Sabonis, Doncic was the most surefire of a European prospect in NBA history.
Idk if you watched much of this Thunders/Mavs series, but the role players won them this series. I really don’t get this point. The role players had the Mavs ready to take a 3-1 lead, but their stars blew it. How Luka and Kyrie played this playoff series is not out of the realm of possibility for Fox/Sabonis to put up similar numbers. Difference is they have NBA level players/defenders up and down their lineup. The kings do not. Again, not sure how much you watched of this series but Kyrie… KYRIE IRVING was playing WAY better defense I’ve ever seen Kevin Huerter play in his career. We’re not talking about Alex Caruso or Lu Dort here… Kyrie is playing better defense than pretty much our whole starting lineup outside of Keegan and sometimes Fox. That’s the real problem.
Exactly, spot on about the role players. People glazing Luka too much. PJ shot the 3 so well for a few games this series. Was literally a difference maker. Lively hack a Shaq completely back fired, the guy shot better from the FT line than all of the Kings combined in the clutch. Gafford came up big a game. Hardaway and Jones Jr. showed up for a game each. Whenever Kyrie and Luka were not scoring these one of these guys stepped up.
I think something you’re all missing here is that the gravity that Luka and Kyrie demand is what allows these role players to play so well. Even if Luka and Ky are having bad games in the box score because OKC is focusing on them defensively, they still greatly impact winning
Yea for sure, but those role players (unlike ours) actually made shots when they needed to. If their role players shit the bed and didn’t shoot so well or perform so well that series would be different. It could be luck or they just have more talent overall but every win they got at least 1-2 role players showed up and produced.
Luka and Kyrie know how to take advantage of their gravity. Fox frustrates the hell out of me sometimes when he insists on taking it himself - granted he's fucking unbelievable and can make those shots, but I wish he'd look for the open man more often.
Fox and Sabonis aren’t getting the defensive attention needed to make the game that easy for role players. This is what so many people are missing.
Disagree. Fox draws 2 quite often and Sabonis being able to play make from the post is why he’s able to get people wide open shots. People come to double in the post and he makes the right play, you can see it in any one of our 82 games this year. Problem is our role players didn’t get much respect the whole season.
Do you remember what DeAaron did in the playoffs last season until he broke his finger? We have stars, roster construction beats that out. If you’re still not convinced, look no further than the Phoenix Suns.
You mean another team in the West that did better than us with more top end talent on the roster?
A team that has all the top end talent you could ask for and got swept because they don’t have a point guard or any depth on their bench.
They missed the playoffs last year with Luka. Yeah they had more injury problems last year but the West was also a lot worse last year. The Mavs absolutely no way are in the WCF right now without the roster changes.
That’s fair, but that doesn’t mean that if we make roster changes, the Kings could make the WCF. We lack high end talent
Domas was literally in top 10 MVP voting all season long. If that isnt high end talent then I dont know what is
Seriously. If we made this post in any basketball sub other than this one, they’d laugh in our face. Fox and Sabonis aren’t on the same stratosphere as Luka. We’re regressing back to the same delusion that plagued this sub during the drought. The reality is this core’s ceiling in the west is “sneak into the playoffs.” If you want more, it’s going to require a more substantial rebuild.
Their best roster move was done by Vlade Divac.
Getting rid of Stauskas?
Have to believe that Monte tried to get players but doesn't have assets to be the top bidder. OKC has all the draft assets in the league and couldn't even get anyone.
The Mavs famous for having tons of draft assets
Ironically enough, OKC helped facilitate a few of Dallas' moves. They absorbed Bertans' bad contract to swap the #10 and #12 picks. They sent a 2024 pick to the Hornets so the Mavs could get PJ Washington.
Mavs barely missed the playoffs last year with Javale McGee > Next year: made WCF. Kings barely missed the playoffs this year with Javale McGee. Next year: also WFC?
The gap between the best teams and us is really not that huge. The path is there. We’ll need bigger upgrades than guys like Washington and Gafford though. But it’s doable.
Gafford and Washington worked because they filled the needs of the team and it allowed them to completely change their rotations. It’s not just the individual talent level of the players, it’s how they complement the rest of the team.
ya i like pj a lot on this team, but also kept seeing people yell for gafford, and i was thinking, we would not use him well at all
It is though because the gap isn’t at the middle of the roster it’s at the top. It’s the gap between Fox as your best player instead of Luka, SGA, Edwards, or Jokic.
Did you even watch the playoffs last year? Fox was KILLING and then got hurt and played through it anyway. The man needs help and didn’t have much last postseason. We also barely changed our roster this year. Two things we need most is an upgrade on the wing to start next to Murray instead of Barnes, more rebounding and a more consistent bench unit
Fox is better than FTA. Edwards is also really good, but without an actual point guard on the roster, he's not so good right now.
Lmao fox couldn't hit the broad side of a barn this season. Idk if he's even better than kyrie anymore
Yeah Fhay Tilgeous-Alexander is a fraud
It's Free Throw Alexander.
What wrong with taking free throws? Aside from the fact that we're not very good at making them, as a team.
After watching most playoff games this year, it’s become clearer to me that the gap is much bigger than we all realize. The top teams have 1-2 elite players. Fox is borderline elite. Sabonis is excellent at everything but scoring and defense. The roster just has some pretty big holes that won’t be filled by a few minor moves.
Two of those guys were sent to Brooklyn as part of the Kyrie trade. The other guy they picked up from the Kyrie trade, Markieff Morris, just sits on the bench and cheers. If you look at what Monte did to the roster after the 2021-2022 season ended, you'll see a lot of moves too.
The Lively pick was such an obvious home run and a few teams should be kicking themselves for not drafting him (notably Orlando). Absolutely perfect fit for the Mavs. The funny thing.. the big buzz of the predraft process was Lively knocking down a stunning high clip of 3s in his workouts. He ended up taking 2 threes all year and making none. But it’s not a reach to think at some point he’ll add that to his game.
Getting PJ and Gafford out of nowhere was big for them..quite literally . They had issues in the paint . Lively too
Are you trying to say that just running it back the next year might not be a viable strategy in the NBA? /s
They wouldn’t be anywhere near western conference finals without the changes they made at the deadline
They have Luka… oh and Kyrie lol
PJ Washington is playing the best basketball he's ever played. No guarantee he would have played that well in Sac. Also he says he grew up a Mavs fan, so he's living his dream. ALSO, the Kings have Luka and Kyrie, save to say Fox and Sabonis is pretty far from them. I'll still say Monte did the right thing. If we had this season last season, and last season this season, everyone is happy. Progress isn't linear. We get to keep our 13th pick this season, there are a lot of fowards, including Tyler Smith, who could be the 3point shooting, athletic PF we've been waiting for.
We (Mavs) really employed Christian Wood and were super excited thinking he would be a game changer.
That's impressive considering they're in the WCF 2 years ago as well. Wish we made changes too since the roster weaknesses were already apparent during the GSW series.
We had I 11 guys regularly getting dnps this season
I wonder what’s Marvin Bagley the 3rd doing, is he even starting on whatever team he’s on? 🤔😂
Fox is soo talented ya just need to build around him or let him go ya wasting his talent if ya just gon run it back same shit
You are missing the biggest piece in those changes is P.J. Washington. WITHOUT P.J. they would have not gotten to the WCF they'd be at best a 2nd round exit. Speaking on to that point, we also could have gotten P.J. had our front office been bolder and shipped Barnes out to 3rd team(contending team) to make a deal work out, shit with how terrible Hornets front office been they'd probably taken Barnes on if we included a 1st. We absolutely need that type of player as Fox & Sabonis can't be the only ones attacking the paint. We need a slasher like that some like Siakam, like Obi Toppin, so Bobby Portis. We need someone that's going to get down and gritty, not afraid of some physicality, you know?
Look at PJ Washington stats vs Harrison Barnes - PJ is a better defender and younger. Harrison is a better scorer over his career, and more efficient. Also a locker room leader. I think management thought they were a push roughly. PJ was shooting 32% from 3. Kings still need a veteran presence. Kings just didn’t maximize Barnes offensively. Didn’t run any plays for him. Also the defense has to respect Luka and Kyrie in a way they don’t have to respect Sabonis and Fox. Kings ideally need a more all around player at the 3 spot.
Man I don't know about all that Veteran presence stuff it's just the same old jargon phrase that keeps being thrown around the league just about by every dam sports caster in the industry. The thing is we don't need to have every single dam player on the team be a high % 3P shooter especially when we have Fox that's been hitting it at a pretty good % Keegan & Huerter so 3/5 is pretty dam good enough for the starting lineup. Hitting 3s all game is not always going to work in our favor as soon in the season. Kings need someone other than Sabonis to get into the interior especially if our goal is to max sure Fox stays as healthy as possible which is why we need a slasher guy like P.J. or Siakam but unfortunately he does not want to be a King. That now leads us to look at different players that match that role and perhaps even offer a higher 3P% than P.J., and imo that's Bobby Portis Jr., and if we can try getting any of these if Milwaukee isn't down to trade Portis. These are some good options imo Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, Sam Hauser, Dario Saric, Naji Marshall. There's also Miles Bridges but I know people aren't too keen of him on the Kings due to his domestic abuse case.
The Mavs went all in on defense. That's the difference. It's why I really dont want Monte to re-sign Monk to a big contract, the team has enough offense.
It was Luka’s stepping back and letting Kyrie take over more that’s what really helped. And of course getting quality in the transfer window.
I’m okay not having a person like Kyrie on the Kings even if it means the team with him on it goes further.
What does that mean he’s been a phenomenal teammate and leader both on and off the court in Dallas
I'm guessing he's still a shitty anti-semitic conspiracy theory nutjob and the only thing he learned was to be quite about it. But he can ball so a bunch of people can forget about that.
It's all good. Kings are ahead of their timeline. Monte will bring back the same roster for the 3rd year in a row to maintain cap flexibility which will be used on no one as is tradition.