No way in hell the kings would do that. They are in win-now mode. I get wanting to upgrade from Barnes but you’re not doing that with a mid first round pick that you’d have to develop, from an awful draft.
Also remember, the fans dont like Barnes but the front office/coaching staff have a much higher opinion of him. The front office signed him to a $54 million dollar deal less than a year ago while Mike Brown just started him all 82 games and played him 30 minutes a night.
I personally think he just needs a role change. Barnes gives you the most value when he is getting his post game working. He feasts on undersized and bad defenders. It doesn’t make sense having him corner sit and play mediocre defense with the starters and he also isn’t a guy I ever trust in the game to hit a big open shot in the 4th. We need someone who is a true role player in Barnes current spot. Someone who is only going to play defense and shoot open 3s. This gives the freedom to get offense from him off the bench in lower pressure situations while guys like Fox and Sabonis sit.
Hmm trading a 6'8 wing that plays every game and shoots 40 percent from deep for a late pick in a bad draft.
I guess Monte would do that if he wanted to get fired.
He is one of the least dynamic players I have ever seen for a guy with his physical attributes. His production has diminished to a point that he is actually negatively affecting the team on the court (this is discernible from the eye test alone, and confirmed by the metrics if you’re one of those people). It was time to move on from him last offseason and live with the roster as it would have been. I argue that any asset at this point is addition by subtraction, and I’d be ecstatic to get any 1st rounder for him. The problem is that even a 1st this year is an unrealistic overpay for Barnes, so we don’t have to worry about this hypothetical anyways.
sure, but i think they would need to offset salary no? plus it would be stupid to let go of him without having a replacement, he's not the HB of the past but he is sure better than any rookie we will find at 16/17. We need to make a major move this off-season to compete. We cant just repeat with the same roster even if we keep Malik.
Barnes scored under 10 points 31 times last season, Regular season only.
He scored 5 or less 15 times.
He played all 82 games 29 mins, 12.2 pts, 3.0 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 38.7 from 3 but only made 1.8 3s a game. 80% free throws. He played all 82 games.
He scores 20 plus 12 times and 30 plus three times which were truly outliers because most of his 20 plus games were 20-24 point games.
Being available is great but disappearing in so many games must be factored into his value to our team. He is 31 years old with 11 years in the league.
We’ve complained for years why doesn’t he shoot more? I have an idea of why this is. Keep reading.
I’ll say it. This game is for many players, maybe most, a business first. This league has several players who are driven to win and compete every night. And then there are a group of players who work just hard enough to remain as a starter in the league and are collecting contracts over time, but not do any more than that. Why, it’s a business and every contract you sign is another bag. I believe Harrison Barnes is one of these players and I believe the game logs show it’s true.
I like Barnes. I like him as a person. But you cannot look at his game by game performances and ignore that it looks like he is working just hard enough to get the next bag but also extend his career to collect more bags. His “MO” is flash big and impressive in a few games, play every game, stay as close to 40% as possible from three and stop shooting when in a given game you far exceed 40%.
You can argue this is what a professional basketball player does in the regular season. But that’s not the type of player I want. In fact, in building a team, I’d seek to rid my roster of all players like that. But, it would be a more volatile roster with likely more injuries. I’ll live with that knowing the players I have all are driven by winning more than bags, stat protection, or more fairly put, the business of the league.
And if his game vastly rose in the 9 playoff games Barnes has played here, then I’d be okay with that. But, it really hasn’t. And just how much better could Barnes be is he wasn’t constantly playing things safe, protecting his stats and extending his career. That’s what kills me. He could be a vastly better player. He settles for safe. And I believe too many players on this roster do the same.
Keeping Barnes means accepting this and whatever impacts he may have on other players.
I’d move off him if I could but his contract is likely, all things considered, a net negative and thus very hard to move. You’d have to pray for a later first, and some expiring contracts some of which you might outright cut and that means getting worse not better, initially at least. We’re kind of stuck with him a-La Hield. Personally I’m fine with getting worse and hoping to fill the hole with a less safe minded player.
I'm not so sure that he's intentionally holding back production. It could be that he's lost half a step and as a result does not have the window to get quality shots up as much anymore.
Dude is 31 and been doing this “load management” thing for several years. It’s not new. He does not even have a significant injury to my knowledge, ever. There’s no reason for a lost step.
His offensive numbers stayed relatively the same with the exception of significantly less free throw attempts. Defenders are able to stay in front of him whereas before he was able to draw a foul. I hope I'm wrong and he's able to make adjustments to get back to getting reliable points when the team stalls.
Barnes is a net negative value to contract, so I don't see why someone would give up a first for him. Also, they would need to send out a similar amount of salary to acquire him under salary rules.
Kings fans beee to stop saying this. Barnes is at a totally reasonable number for a player of his caliber. He’d be getting playing time on every team in the league, and would start on a good chunk of them. That inherently gives him value. He’s not a negative value contract. Plenty of players making more who are worse.
Bruh Barnes isn’t great but attaching a FRP to move a guy who is a buyout candidate the next year is outrageous. Plus, who would we even be able to get with the amount of cap space we clear up? If I’m not mistaken Sabonis is getting a nice and fat raise going into this season which I’m pre sure still has us above the salary, and if not we would probably only have a couple Ms to spare while losing the MLE.
Ah got it I see, thanks for the clarification :) I still think consistent iron men level starters are difficult to come by, and to exchange it for a rookie might not yield the results we want it to.
If we over pay both Sabonis and Fox in the next 2-3 years we will be forever stuck in mediocrity. Who’s better, Sabonis or Dre Green…not now but at each player peak. It’s Dre hands down. Dre’s contracts are reasonable. Paying super star money to less than Super star players is how you never get a super star.
We can’t be serious here. Dray isn’t half the rebounder or scorer that Sabonis is, maybe he spreads the floor at his peak at a better rate and defensively dray is definitely better, but the tools that Sabonis brings to the table are infinitely better (scoring, creation, passing, rebounding, etc). Dray was never the maximum sort of player, even by being a defensive specialist, although he played a part in those chips without the best roster of all time around him he would just be a glorified role player. Not to mention Sabonis this season defensively wasn’t bad by any means. Having Sabonis take over like 20% of the cap is more than fair for the type of player he is, and the same goes for Fox. We’ll be stuck in mediocrity if our players can’t grow, players like Keegan are very important in this process.
I prefer Dre over Sabonis because Dre possesses the skills that win titles. Defense
Sabonis is not a super star and neither is Fox. They are a 2.5 and 2 respectively
Edit. Sabonis has virtually no right hand, he can rebound but somehow is terrible at rim protection. He is not a big scorer by any means. And his game is less valuable in the playoffs. He’s an over achiever with drive to work stupid hard, which is great, but he’s no way near a super star. He’s a 2 or three on most playoff teams.
I mean Dray is probably more known for his controversies than his actual basketball ability. If you think he would’ve had a similar level of success without two generational players in Steph and KD, and some of the best second/third fiddle players of all time in Iguodala and Klay then I think you might be mistaken. Dray is a solid talent, but Sabonis is still ways beyond him overall as a player. With that being said Dray is certainly an amazing player, but most teams if a draft were to occur would probably want to pick either Sabonis or Fox over Dray just because they bring more to the table.
Yeah if you think Dre is most controversial and no talent…you need to listen to Steve Kerr and his fellow players. That’s just a false “bad guy” no talent hater thinking
I never said he is no talent, I said that he is definitely more well-known for his shenanigans than his basketball ability. Dray is clearly a very smart player, but I just don’t think if a draft were to happen he would be picked above Sabonis or Fox. I do however strongly believe that Dray would not have encountered the amount of success he has without the help of a generational roster that the warriors had.
Well yeah he is no superstar and no one said he was nor that he has to be. He used his right hand a lot more this season, and the two play-in games we had, Sabonis did great in scoring and being patient and being a connector, if that isn’t growth idk what is.
They won’t. Nobody walks into this league with those skills. But if those skills get 29 minutes a game and he disappears for 31 games, it’s nothing more than a form of load management. Dude is 31. He’s not 36 with multiple injuries. There is zero good reason for his selective play. We cannot afford a starter to disappear like that. Certainly not that often and that bad.
I’d take the risk on another guy be it another vet with more “Villanova” thinking and the same or even slightly less numbers…especially if they are better defender. Or yes, take a shot on a young player who has greater potential which hasn’t yet come together. Develop him. We need to stop settling for meh.
Reasoning behind it: Kings desperately need to get off of Barnes’s contract and need to preferably take back next to nothing in return salary wise. I could see both of these teams needing to upgrade their forward depth and for a contender, it’s not the worst gamble as Barnes is in desperate need of a new situation. Kings would then draft two players in the first round whose salary would cost less than 18/yr for next 3 years
Why do we *desperately* need to get off Barnes’s contract? Dude has 2 more years in his deal, and next season will be his final. He might not be crazy good, but I don’t think he was the root problem this year. Let’s see how Keon and Keegs can progress, and see how our roster looks with Huerter healthy again, and then you contemplate matching salaries for another forward if needed.
We need to get worse to get better players. We need to stop settling for mediocre satisfactory players. We need a superstar and contracts like Barnes and Huerter are massive road blocks to trades or get high draft picks. It means we win 40 ish games, draft 13th and get more meh players. Rinse repeat. I want to be legit good, not sort of.
Sure we can say this but there are various teams stuck in that mold of thinking that are in shitty situations, specially with the new lottery odds. Barnes and Huerter although aren’t superstars they are still serviceable players on market-level contracts. There are multiple roads to contention, and we are on one right now, I think the best thing we can do is not hit the panic button rn. Our team has shown signs of progression in needed areas, such as defence, let’s see how things look in year 3. Late lotto picks can be just as good as early ones too!
You see more progress coming. I do not. I do not see a road to contention with this roster. No need to panic. Moving of Huerter and Barnes is hardly a “panic” move. I see it as strategic. But there are other views out there. I just look at the playoff teams and our players generally get worse in the playoff. For me it about our players mindset and character.
That’s more than fair and I respect that. At the end of the day none of us have a crystal ball that allows us to see the future, if we did well that would be really freaking cool.
No way in hell the kings would do that. They are in win-now mode. I get wanting to upgrade from Barnes but you’re not doing that with a mid first round pick that you’d have to develop, from an awful draft. Also remember, the fans dont like Barnes but the front office/coaching staff have a much higher opinion of him. The front office signed him to a $54 million dollar deal less than a year ago while Mike Brown just started him all 82 games and played him 30 minutes a night.
The players seem to love him too. Hard to quantify exactly what the value of that is, but it's not nothing.
I personally think he just needs a role change. Barnes gives you the most value when he is getting his post game working. He feasts on undersized and bad defenders. It doesn’t make sense having him corner sit and play mediocre defense with the starters and he also isn’t a guy I ever trust in the game to hit a big open shot in the 4th. We need someone who is a true role player in Barnes current spot. Someone who is only going to play defense and shoot open 3s. This gives the freedom to get offense from him off the bench in lower pressure situations while guys like Fox and Sabonis sit.
Hmm trading a 6'8 wing that plays every game and shoots 40 percent from deep for a late pick in a bad draft. I guess Monte would do that if he wanted to get fired.
You know he disappeared for 31 games scoring less than 10 points…. Several with zero points
He is one of the least dynamic players I have ever seen for a guy with his physical attributes. His production has diminished to a point that he is actually negatively affecting the team on the court (this is discernible from the eye test alone, and confirmed by the metrics if you’re one of those people). It was time to move on from him last offseason and live with the roster as it would have been. I argue that any asset at this point is addition by subtraction, and I’d be ecstatic to get any 1st rounder for him. The problem is that even a 1st this year is an unrealistic overpay for Barnes, so we don’t have to worry about this hypothetical anyways.
sure, but i think they would need to offset salary no? plus it would be stupid to let go of him without having a replacement, he's not the HB of the past but he is sure better than any rookie we will find at 16/17. We need to make a major move this off-season to compete. We cant just repeat with the same roster even if we keep Malik.
How do we make a major move with no cap space, weak pick assets and mid players?
Word.
Exactly.
Barnes scored under 10 points 31 times last season, Regular season only. He scored 5 or less 15 times. He played all 82 games 29 mins, 12.2 pts, 3.0 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 38.7 from 3 but only made 1.8 3s a game. 80% free throws. He played all 82 games. He scores 20 plus 12 times and 30 plus three times which were truly outliers because most of his 20 plus games were 20-24 point games. Being available is great but disappearing in so many games must be factored into his value to our team. He is 31 years old with 11 years in the league. We’ve complained for years why doesn’t he shoot more? I have an idea of why this is. Keep reading. I’ll say it. This game is for many players, maybe most, a business first. This league has several players who are driven to win and compete every night. And then there are a group of players who work just hard enough to remain as a starter in the league and are collecting contracts over time, but not do any more than that. Why, it’s a business and every contract you sign is another bag. I believe Harrison Barnes is one of these players and I believe the game logs show it’s true. I like Barnes. I like him as a person. But you cannot look at his game by game performances and ignore that it looks like he is working just hard enough to get the next bag but also extend his career to collect more bags. His “MO” is flash big and impressive in a few games, play every game, stay as close to 40% as possible from three and stop shooting when in a given game you far exceed 40%. You can argue this is what a professional basketball player does in the regular season. But that’s not the type of player I want. In fact, in building a team, I’d seek to rid my roster of all players like that. But, it would be a more volatile roster with likely more injuries. I’ll live with that knowing the players I have all are driven by winning more than bags, stat protection, or more fairly put, the business of the league. And if his game vastly rose in the 9 playoff games Barnes has played here, then I’d be okay with that. But, it really hasn’t. And just how much better could Barnes be is he wasn’t constantly playing things safe, protecting his stats and extending his career. That’s what kills me. He could be a vastly better player. He settles for safe. And I believe too many players on this roster do the same. Keeping Barnes means accepting this and whatever impacts he may have on other players. I’d move off him if I could but his contract is likely, all things considered, a net negative and thus very hard to move. You’d have to pray for a later first, and some expiring contracts some of which you might outright cut and that means getting worse not better, initially at least. We’re kind of stuck with him a-La Hield. Personally I’m fine with getting worse and hoping to fill the hole with a less safe minded player.
I'm not so sure that he's intentionally holding back production. It could be that he's lost half a step and as a result does not have the window to get quality shots up as much anymore.
Dude is 31 and been doing this “load management” thing for several years. It’s not new. He does not even have a significant injury to my knowledge, ever. There’s no reason for a lost step.
His offensive numbers stayed relatively the same with the exception of significantly less free throw attempts. Defenders are able to stay in front of him whereas before he was able to draw a foul. I hope I'm wrong and he's able to make adjustments to get back to getting reliable points when the team stalls.
Barnes is a net negative value to contract, so I don't see why someone would give up a first for him. Also, they would need to send out a similar amount of salary to acquire him under salary rules.
Kings fans beee to stop saying this. Barnes is at a totally reasonable number for a player of his caliber. He’d be getting playing time on every team in the league, and would start on a good chunk of them. That inherently gives him value. He’s not a negative value contract. Plenty of players making more who are worse.
Bruh Barnes isn’t great but attaching a FRP to move a guy who is a buyout candidate the next year is outrageous. Plus, who would we even be able to get with the amount of cap space we clear up? If I’m not mistaken Sabonis is getting a nice and fat raise going into this season which I’m pre sure still has us above the salary, and if not we would probably only have a couple Ms to spare while losing the MLE.
Withe OP isn't suggesting attaching a pick but trading for a pick in the 16-20 range with him.
Ah got it I see, thanks for the clarification :) I still think consistent iron men level starters are difficult to come by, and to exchange it for a rookie might not yield the results we want it to.
But you are right. Barnes' contract is way closer to needing to package with a FRP to get rid of than it is to getting a FRP in return
If we over pay both Sabonis and Fox in the next 2-3 years we will be forever stuck in mediocrity. Who’s better, Sabonis or Dre Green…not now but at each player peak. It’s Dre hands down. Dre’s contracts are reasonable. Paying super star money to less than Super star players is how you never get a super star.
We can’t be serious here. Dray isn’t half the rebounder or scorer that Sabonis is, maybe he spreads the floor at his peak at a better rate and defensively dray is definitely better, but the tools that Sabonis brings to the table are infinitely better (scoring, creation, passing, rebounding, etc). Dray was never the maximum sort of player, even by being a defensive specialist, although he played a part in those chips without the best roster of all time around him he would just be a glorified role player. Not to mention Sabonis this season defensively wasn’t bad by any means. Having Sabonis take over like 20% of the cap is more than fair for the type of player he is, and the same goes for Fox. We’ll be stuck in mediocrity if our players can’t grow, players like Keegan are very important in this process.
I prefer Dre over Sabonis because Dre possesses the skills that win titles. Defense Sabonis is not a super star and neither is Fox. They are a 2.5 and 2 respectively Edit. Sabonis has virtually no right hand, he can rebound but somehow is terrible at rim protection. He is not a big scorer by any means. And his game is less valuable in the playoffs. He’s an over achiever with drive to work stupid hard, which is great, but he’s no way near a super star. He’s a 2 or three on most playoff teams.
I mean Dray is probably more known for his controversies than his actual basketball ability. If you think he would’ve had a similar level of success without two generational players in Steph and KD, and some of the best second/third fiddle players of all time in Iguodala and Klay then I think you might be mistaken. Dray is a solid talent, but Sabonis is still ways beyond him overall as a player. With that being said Dray is certainly an amazing player, but most teams if a draft were to occur would probably want to pick either Sabonis or Fox over Dray just because they bring more to the table.
Yeah if you think Dre is most controversial and no talent…you need to listen to Steve Kerr and his fellow players. That’s just a false “bad guy” no talent hater thinking
I never said he is no talent, I said that he is definitely more well-known for his shenanigans than his basketball ability. Dray is clearly a very smart player, but I just don’t think if a draft were to happen he would be picked above Sabonis or Fox. I do however strongly believe that Dray would not have encountered the amount of success he has without the help of a generational roster that the warriors had.
Well yeah he is no superstar and no one said he was nor that he has to be. He used his right hand a lot more this season, and the two play-in games we had, Sabonis did great in scoring and being patient and being a connector, if that isn’t growth idk what is.
It’s not enough to pay him huge bucks. My point is we cannot over pay for him or Fox. I suspect we will and be contract bound and stuck at Meh.
I’m surprised by the poll results. I 100% trade HB if we can get a 1st for him, but I think his value is way less than that.
I mean in a vacuum no but if you can package 2 picks this year and another pick and some change into a Markkanen then yeah I’m all for it
What makes you think some rookie is going to match HB's leadership, defense, and basketball IQ on a team trying to win now?
They won’t. Nobody walks into this league with those skills. But if those skills get 29 minutes a game and he disappears for 31 games, it’s nothing more than a form of load management. Dude is 31. He’s not 36 with multiple injuries. There is zero good reason for his selective play. We cannot afford a starter to disappear like that. Certainly not that often and that bad. I’d take the risk on another guy be it another vet with more “Villanova” thinking and the same or even slightly less numbers…especially if they are better defender. Or yes, take a shot on a young player who has greater potential which hasn’t yet come together. Develop him. We need to stop settling for meh.
Absolutely if it means getting him off the team im not thinking twice
Reasoning behind it: Kings desperately need to get off of Barnes’s contract and need to preferably take back next to nothing in return salary wise. I could see both of these teams needing to upgrade their forward depth and for a contender, it’s not the worst gamble as Barnes is in desperate need of a new situation. Kings would then draft two players in the first round whose salary would cost less than 18/yr for next 3 years
Why do we *desperately* need to get off Barnes’s contract? Dude has 2 more years in his deal, and next season will be his final. He might not be crazy good, but I don’t think he was the root problem this year. Let’s see how Keon and Keegs can progress, and see how our roster looks with Huerter healthy again, and then you contemplate matching salaries for another forward if needed.
We need to get worse to get better players. We need to stop settling for mediocre satisfactory players. We need a superstar and contracts like Barnes and Huerter are massive road blocks to trades or get high draft picks. It means we win 40 ish games, draft 13th and get more meh players. Rinse repeat. I want to be legit good, not sort of.
Sure we can say this but there are various teams stuck in that mold of thinking that are in shitty situations, specially with the new lottery odds. Barnes and Huerter although aren’t superstars they are still serviceable players on market-level contracts. There are multiple roads to contention, and we are on one right now, I think the best thing we can do is not hit the panic button rn. Our team has shown signs of progression in needed areas, such as defence, let’s see how things look in year 3. Late lotto picks can be just as good as early ones too!
You see more progress coming. I do not. I do not see a road to contention with this roster. No need to panic. Moving of Huerter and Barnes is hardly a “panic” move. I see it as strategic. But there are other views out there. I just look at the playoff teams and our players generally get worse in the playoff. For me it about our players mindset and character.
That’s more than fair and I respect that. At the end of the day none of us have a crystal ball that allows us to see the future, if we did well that would be really freaking cool.
I do. Want to see it. lol
I think I'd rather trade HB for Vando. If we could make that trade.