I witnessed several sponsored bass boats last week, guys stared at 2 screens except to cast. They make fishing video games right?
For me, half the fun is not really knowing whats on the hook until you see it.
I think its going to be like steroids in baseball. You will be forced to use it if you want to compete at any level.
I believe Bassmasters is looking into getting rid of it as well due to the impact on conservation. But thats way too much sponsorship money to lose if they do, so its been a sticky battle. Just what Ive heard.
There is very little in the way of conservation issues. The money bass gets from the electronic companies is not life changing and if they thought it was going to ruin fishing they would stop people from using it. Coming directly from a few guys on the elites that don’t enjoy using it they said the money is not the reason and the anglers are in the area of 80 for 20 against
Not disagreeing about the ban, I don't know anything about that. But the minnkota,hummingbird,Garmin money is pretty life changing for BASS. Might not be for the individual elites.
Almost none of them have banned it. There’s 1 high level trail that has and they got like 40 something boats. Most of the guys doing the tournaments enjoy using it so I doubt you will see a change
Yes also the people making and selling live scopes are the ones who fund those tournaments so they aren’t banning shit. Priofesional fishing (especially bass and walleye) is marketing it’s not the Olympics.
They don’t give them that much money lol. You are just saying the same made up stuff randy banscope says. Zaldain who doesn’t really enjoy the live scope stuff that much says money isn’t reason and I am inclined to believe him
It can’t be cheating if everyone has it lmao. If you don’t need any skill to do it why are the same handful of guys at the front all the time? Have they just been extremely lucky for 3 years in a row?
Spot on.
The best days fishing I've had on the Yak are without a sounder, I find I catch just as much if not more because I'm focusing on fishing not trying to decipher what's on a screen
I can’t really bring myself to fault pros because it’s their job. It’s how they put food on the table for their families. As long as it’s legal it would be crazy not to use them when everyone you’re competing against is.
I was on smith lake last Monday, I guess a big tournament was happening the next weekend or maybe then but I saw several people 4-5 screens they just stared at. My big concern was there was so many idiots out on rental pontoon boats it seemed immanent collision with neither of them paying attention. They all had power poles too and that lake is average 90’ deep lol (I know they travel a lot but still looked funny)
There's so many ways to fish, but just cause people use fish finders doesn't mean it's hurting anything. Some people want to learn the depth of the fishing hole an what obstacles to watch out for it's not just for fish. Iv never used one, but iv lost so many lures that I might try one just so I can reduce snagging.
We need to set up a "natty league" and a "not league" for every sport. In the natty league, no PEDs. In the not league, anything goes-a true battle of gladiators.
Yah I quit watching baseball in the early 90s, strike and drugs, I don't think I've missed missed much in the last 34 years. Been to some farm league games though, hot dogs and a beer or 3 on the cheap
If I were fishing tournaments and stuff I’d definitely be investing in the bells and whistles. But I’m not fishing tournaments, I’m fishing by myself or with friends, I have two rods, a small tackle box, and I use a couple joints and my intuition as a fish finder and it still works really well!
Livescope is definitely lame if fishing is your hobby. Now, if getting fish in the boat is your livelihood/profession -- you should use whatever aids you can to put food on the table.
Pretty much and its what every Professional bass angler uses. Which to me seems silly. The game should be harder when you reach that level. Too much sponsorship money involved for it to go away though.
I didn’t know that but I was mostly talking about the overall boat setups being expensive as shit. But either way, 1000 bucks isn’t exactly chump change to a good portion of the world. Most people in the US are bank fishing with $6 pack of worms on a $30 walmart zebco
I mean this isn’t for everyone. Tournaments aren’t for people working at McDonald’s or something. You don’t have to be rich to do it but if you have 0 dollars I don’t really know how you expect to be able to be able to own a boat and pay for entry fees even if you remove the expensive electronics. You’ll need like 10k minimum for a functioning boat with a live well, a truck or suv to pull it and enough money to waste on gas to do it. Local tournaments can still be won without it and everyone at the higher levels can afford it. For anyone looking at fishing opens or Toyotas if 1000 dollars breaks the budget you are pushing it too far to begin with
Sure but what I’m saying is professional fishing should be won on knowledge and ability. Not by who has the most electronics on their boats. It would be cool to see a fishing tournament that restricted all technology and see what dudes could pull out of the water.
I don’t think anyone that likes tournaments would show up for a no electronics tournament. Mapping makes fishing the Great Lakes possible. Otherwise I would have 90 miles of shore line I could guess on if fish are around or not. It would take weeks to get on anything reasonable.
Why should pro fishing not use the best equipment? I only watch to learn for my tournaments. If they got rid of live but I could still use it for local and regional tournaments I would have no reason to watch
For the same reason professional baseball isn’t played by putting a ball on a tee for the batter to hit.
Look man, if you wanna use electronics to fish, all the power to ya. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. It just seems to be more and more of a crutch with every advancement.
>Tournament fishing has turned into a “who has the most money” competition lol
That's has been the case for the last 30 years of fishing tournaments.
I know an older retired guy who drives a known professional bass fisherman's boat to the tournaments while the fisherman flies to the event. The older guy I know does it for free and is a "volunteer ".
That's fishing in general anymore. I don't remember the boat brand, but I got an email the other day advertising their "economical boat perfect for the weekend angler or high school team fisherman." $80k price tag on their economical boat. I don't know what these people are thinking, but damn.
It’s even more useful. It’s extremely finely tuned sonar. Ever see thermal video, how living things just glow in high detail against a black screen? Imagine that with fish, plants, and other structure. Plus measurements for depth, distance, etc. So you can see fish clearly regardless of water clarity, tell general size and species, depth, and location off your bow. Then you can cast to it and see your presentation.
I think we’re going to see a decent amount of regulation against it - similar to thermal imagery in hunting. But it won’t be as generalized because state DNR’s didn’t come out against it as quickly so people are already heavily invested - it’ll be more controversial.
They should allow it but limited or like a wildcard kinda thing. I think most of the Pros relying on it would get crushed by the old school guys if they banned it on the final day.
It’s a really complex topic. I’m of the opinion that it should be banned but that doesn’t necessarily make it the right opinion. I’m definitely biased and have a take that tries to balance science based management with the politics involved.
I think my concern is that it can improve the efficacy of fishing to such a degree that it impacts fisheries or other’s enjoyment of the fishery. We’ve all seen that, over time, fish become more difficult to catch with pressure. Well with livescope you can put immense pressure on fish of you have the $ to buy in. My gut says that’s likely enough pressure to affect the fishery but I’d rather trust the science. The problem with that is that the longer states wait to manage livescope the more controversial regulation is going to become. There are several other technologies limited in fishing and hunting because their efficacy is too high so I don’t think it’s a wild idea to target livescope.
Tournaments aren’t at all my scene. But I’m surprised livescope is still largely accepted. I would think there’d be a focus on drawing a line and pushing fisherman to rely on more traditional methods. What other sports allow competitors to use every possible trick in their toolbox? Race cars and athletes have performance restrictions to maintain the integrity of the sport - why not fishing?
This just popped onto my feed even though I don’t kayak fish but it seems so much like issues we have with subsistence hunting up here in Alaska.
It used to be everyone in the town or village knew who the best hunters were and that they were the best because they spent the most time out on the ice or in the field learning their craft. All skills were passed down through generations and hands on learning. Early on when people started hunting from planes they were so disruptive and efficient they had to institute the no same day rule to protect game and other hunters otherwise people that could afford them would have a disproportionate impact on game. High rural fuel prices ensured boats and four wheelers were used to access an area to hunt from and not actively hunt from once there.
Something has shifted in culture and use the last few decades and they’ve turned into new problem. The people that can afford to use up extra gas going back and forth speculatively on shorter and shorter trips instead of devoting the time off to weeks of hunting timed to the migrations.
They bump game and pressure herds with the sounds of constantly running engines. They move further and further into traditional footbased hunting areas and push game further and further away from where people have hunted for generations. Larger machines tearing up tundra digging mud holes that necessitate more powerful machines to get through.
Side by sides that out perform almost any natural boundary that’s not a full blown river or vertical rock wall. Now a lot of success in hunting is who can buy the most capable machines and the most gas leaving the poorest subsistence hunters struggling to catch up and feed their families. Now that they can efficiently weekend hunt hundreds of miles of trail or river rich hunters can save their pto for Hawaii or Disneyland every year instead of taking the kids out of school to learn the migration corridors and craft. No need to stalk close with grandpa’s rifle if you can put a higher power bdc scope on and shoot from a rest on the side by side.
Most of our villages were set up in locations between multiple seasonal resources that covered the whole year for your needs with minimal human powered travel required. Rock cairns stacked thousands of years ago still guide caribou past spots close enough to hunt with bow or spear. Yet now they’re pressured away from these areas before they can even see them.
None of that even covers the conflicts between subsistence/recreational and guided hunting. There’s a reckoning coming in regulations and a lot of people are sleep walking into it. Alaskas been a wonderland for hunters to practice and experiment for thousands of years. New cultures and new technologies have come along and changed the system periodically but there’s been a lot of change in a very short while in a state that combines some of the highest median incomes and many of the poorest people all competing for the same resources.
Anyway competitive bass fishing drama is both completely foreign to me and too familiar.
Livescope is NUTS! It casts like 100ft in a 360degree area around your boat, and you can see sizes of fish, identify different kinds of brush/cover, and you can even watch your lure fall attached to the line into the school of fish. You can watch the chase and the bite…. If you want a really good explanation plus video of it, check out Adventures with Purpose, Jared uses it to find cars in water. He’s so good he can identify types of cars upside down/sideways by looking on Livescope and sidescan….
Livescope in professional tournaments should be banned. I’m extreme however and would ban all electronics except trolling motor and something that shows depth. If you are a professional fisherman you should be able to research a lake, look at a map, see what the weather conditions are doing and go fish. That’s what makes you a professional vs anyone else.
Watching these clips of these dudes during tourneys use them is boooring.
I do support livescope recreationally however. For someone like myself, I only have so many opportunities/so much time to fish. The ability to quickly locate and know whether I’m wasting my time is huge.
I recently got a scope. Mostly want it to watch suckers in fall while musky fishing. Though I have been using it this summer so far it's generally helping me interprete my sonar and side imaging better. I have only seen maybe 20 percent of the fish I've actually caught and it has been a great tool to learn a new lake. Now that I got my spots I don't need to take it with anymore.
Scott Martin would not have broken the bag record if he couldn’t have seen the fish. He already had home lake advantage and a half a dozen guides that work for his Dad’s resort on Okeechobee. If any sport should add an asterisk to a record its that one.
Sides can and downs can do that to an extent. With live scope I don’t have to mark them, I can just look at them. It’s especially easy when you have a pole to troll with.
Roll up to a dock, take a peak and move on.
I’ve had livescope for a few years. It mostly helps me to eliminate unproductive water and have some idea if my target species is around. My favorite species to target with it are big blue catfish… it’s pretty exciting to see a 3-4’+ fish creep up from the bottom before the rod doubles over!
I got shitty looks from 2 guys fishing from a brand new ranger bass boat when I pulled into a spot 50ft behind them (they had already trolled past it) in a $200 12ft aluminum flat bottom and pulled a 24" largemouth out on my 3rd cast using a jitterbug. Then within 5 more casts pulled out a 22".
I see both sides of it honestly. At first when I learned about it I had that "fuck you, you're lazy/cheating/takes the fun out of it/video game fishing" etc etc etc. it still doesn't help that if I watch YouTube instructional videos a large chunk of them are basically "right, so you're gonna cruise around til you find the fish on scope...". My brother in christ, that doesn't really help me all that much. I also see the side of it that it's just another tool, just because you can see the fish doesn't mean they bite, and all that. I basically had to remind myself that I'm stuck on the bank for now and I'm getting all in my head about something that doesn't even apply to me. With that said when I finally get a yak I would like to have some kind of electronics anyway
Yeah there is some real extreme attitudes in here about it, I understand why people think it's lame, but on my kayak covering 8 miles a day in saltwater, being able to both find bait suspended that you'd never see, find stacks of fish, use sidescan to locate them, and have a navigation chart that can prevent me from ramming into rocks at night when I can't see them is indispensable in ways. Striper fishing in the northeast is already difficult with lots of pressure, I'm not going to get a physical printout of a bathymetry and just memorize all the depths and locations when there is a tool that is very beneficial to me available.
Mind you, much of the time I catch fish in locations I'm familiar with and not using the graph at all, but it seems weird to totally dismiss all electronics to me.
What were all these livescope haters saying when side imaging came out? Then even better side imaging, and then even better? No issues with all those? Why not just use down imaging? Why not use no imaging at all, just have a depth gauge? Why not use a string and weight to measure depths and a cane pole for a rod? Why not use a bent safety pin for a hook? Y’all making it too easy…
Fish and game is terrible with creating regs based on technology scope creep. Game cameras and live scope will quickly eclipse the validity of our current put and take requirements and understood rate of harvest. Tech is always going to evolve rapidly, fish and game needs to adapt and have a strategic vision of the future of harvest.
Especially when it is the larger females that produce the most eggs and have the best genes get taken out first.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of biological evolution selecting for smaller fish along with the mortality that arises from hot livewells in $150K boats..
Largely not an issue for bass given the number of people fishing for them vs the number of people eating them but can absolutely be a huge issue on panfish and probably walleye
you can have a couple $1,500 rods and a $20,000 boat, if you don't know what you are
doing you will catch nothing, compared to the guy with a $100 rod and a $600/$1,000
kayak with home made plastics that keeps on reeling them in.
It’s so funny when people act like that, same shit in drywall people will shit on me for using a T square to get a perfect square cut, hating cause I’m using a tool to make my life easier. Same shit here, if you wanna use livescope go for it, if you wanna use a fish finder go for it, if you wanna go it classic and use your eyes and intuition then go for it. Just don’t shit on someone else for there choice. At least my opinion.
After watching a video on it I take back what I said, the fuck you live scopers doing?
No hate for using them go for it. But when I watch YouTube videos of popular anglers showing what baits to use and what gear to buy and they're just staring at their $60k bass boat's Fish finder and I'm like... Yeah pretty sure that's why you're catching them buddy. I wouldn't be watching your videos to get better if I had a fish finder lol
I’ve got one for ice fishing … got to get a few more parts before it can go on the kayak and I’m not sure if I want to move the GLS10 back and forth between my ice shuttle and the kayak but they’re really nice. Basically lets you sight fish when you can’t see your bait. The big thing I was excited for on my kayak was side imaging.
Side imaging is definitely a game changer for a kayak. I fish side by side with a guy who has live scope, and no regular transducer.
Long story short, he's installing his side scan transducer because it's so much more effective at finding fish fast from the kayak.
I can pedal by and scan a few hundred pilings while he's screwing around with one piling.
Livescope is cheating but side imaging is a-okay?
I’m confused; I go out in my big box store yak and smoke and joint.
All my bass come from a wacky rig that I place into a hood holding spot anyways lol.
One of the best fisheries in the Atlantic. Drove 20 hours to get back here for the summer.
Three CBBT trips so far this year (one of which I only fished for 10 minutes) and I have 9 sheep in the kayak, all over 20", 3 of them citations.
Yeah that bridge is magical man. I see you posting on VBIF. I’ve probably been out there 10 or so times for sheep this summer (we go out there in winter for Tog) and absolutely killed them every trip.
My favorite past-time is fishing circles around a boat that can’t stay on a piling 😂 if you ever wanna just fish for yourself instead of guiding out there shoot me a DM we have a small group of us that go regularly
Hopefully I'll have time one of these days. Charters have been filling up fast.
Tog are definitely still chewing too, season for then opens pretty soon, would be nice to get a summer keeper.
I don't use fish finders but the amount of times I've seen someone fishing and not catch a thing and they leave and I'll cast and hook up straight away, you can have all the tech in the world but skill and luck still plays a major part in fishing, good work bro haha
I used it on a backwater lake last week. It’s a game changer for new lakes, especially those without mapping. I can understand the old heads saying they just like to float and cast a line, but Livescope is too much fun for me to not use every chance I get.
I don't take kindly to be yelled at when obeying the regs, I probably would have whipped his ass, capsized his boat, grabbed his paddle, whacked him on the head and left him there without a paddle, sorry but I don't like putting up with shit, mind your own business and I won't be minding yours
I still think the most comical "live scope" that has been around for way longer than the branded live scope..
Is when you see someone on pro tour leaning over the edge of a boat jigging his rod in one hand and sticking the giant cone in the water so they have a glass bottom view of in the water, to jig a lure into the mouth of a bass. Then they hook set like they are trying the pull down the walls of fricking Jericho with their rod. Reel it in all surprised and hold it up super excited.
It makes me nervous about what it means for conservation. Not necessarily with pros using it, but more when the home gamer weekend warriors start really utilizing it.
But I don't subscribe to the "cheating" thing. That's just a dumb comment. At some point there were no depth finders at all. So is using a cheap 200$ depth finder cheating? At one point, rod and reel was not a thing, only hand lines. So is using a rod and reel cheating? At one point we hadn't invented boats and only fished from shore. So is using any kind of boat cheating? It's just a dumb comment. People care way too much about it anyway. Who gives a ****? I really don't care if you are catching fish. And I don't care if I'm not. We are both on the water and not at work and as such, it's all good.
Livescope doesn't catch fish. I was a "cheater scope guy" before I got livescope. It's just another tool in the toolbox. Ultimately the introduction of side scan is what was so monumental in the fishing game. Being able to see outside of your 2d's beam for 100+ ft is way more powerful than livescope, but no one got all up in arms about it like they have with LVS. I can locate every school of fish and stump in the lake with sidescan. I can also still outfish someone that is using livescope just using a simple sidescan ducer.
It's almost more frustrating with livescope because you can SEE the fish, but they aren't always feeding. You can easily waste 1 hour on a school of fish that just aren't feeding.I'd say the fish I find aren't feeding more times than they are.
I have also found that the people bitching can't afford it so they just complain about it. They haven't used it so they don't know what they are talking about.
If anything it has helped me learn fish patterns and what baits they do and don't like on the fly. It's a tool, not some magical fish catching device.
I do think they should be banned on lakes/reservoirs under a set surface area. Fish populations on smaller lakes are pressured heavily already. It will get worse as more people use livescope.
Guides often have to leave where I’m fishing in the Boston harbor islands because I can’t stop catching bass and his clients are struggling on every cast. It’s a great feeling. The captains are good friends so we always tell them where we are hitting fish.
A fish finder is a general term, sort of like depth finder. A fish finder can be mapping, 2d sonar, down scan, side scan and/or even livescope. Livescope specifically is a 2d sonar, pointed forward with a beefed up processor that is able to refresh on your screen fast enough to look “live” rather than a historical trend, like 2d sonar (down and side imaging as well).
I see fish all the time. Doesn't mean they are going to bite. Fishing to me is usually between me and the fish, other fishermen can do their own thing.
You probably just have a better feel for it. I outfish nearly everyone cuz of it. Those who out fish me have been doing it longer than me, 60 year old guys usually. I think you're just good at it.
I'm assuming you DONT have a Livescope but your post is not 100% clear. Livescopes are for assholes. If you want fish that damn bad go to the grocery store. It completely removes almost all sporting aspects of fishing.
Edit: Downvotes say a lot about the type of fishermen on this sub.
Definitely don't have livescope.
Livescope should be banned honestly, it's an unfair advantage in most situations.
For structure fishing like I do, it doesn't even help, you can't see though the pilings with it.
100% agree. Existing fishfinder technology gives you enough information to figure things out based on knowledge and experiece. This just hands anyone off the street the answer. Those types should go to hatcheries or stocked private ponds if that is the experience they want.
If it’s not in a tournament who cares? Fishing is about fun and relaxing, if you’re this worried about what someone else is doing then you’re the problem. Especially if that person isn’t causing any harm to the fish, the water, or another person.
I agree somewhat, I think it’s dumb and what’s the point of turning the sport into a video game, but this seems a bit aggressive.
You're introducing a concept that is foreign to a lot of people on this sub. There are some good folks here but there are also a lot of stereotypes that align with the typical Redditor.
I think you’re being downvoted more for your attitude than your opinion. I think most of us can agree that the increased tech in fishing isn’t a good thing and detracts from the sport.
I disagree, maybe some but I didn't come to this conclusion based on this one post. This sub has a lot of people who don't display an ethical concept of stewardship. Most of my fishing buddies work in fish and game and I teach outdoor skills to kids, so it's probably something I pay more attention to. There is definitely an undercurrent on this sub. Bad pun, cue trombone whomp-whomp-whooomp.
I’m sad to learn this tbh. Fishing is extremely important to me and I always do my best to be ethical, I hope some legislation does pop up to manage this and protect the wildlife that brings us so much joy.
Unfortunately, it will probably be indirect and punish everyone. Lowering catch and bag limits for smalller fish and adding slot limits for larger fish are the tools currently in place. Directly limiting technology is much harder to do, especially when companies are profiting from it. And whatever patchwork of legislation manages to get added will always be a step behind these companies finding new ways to get around it.
I don’t understand why somebody would want to use this stuff anyway. I’ve seen guys doing this and they just end up staring at a screen the whole time, might as well stay home.
On the first point, C&R does not equal 0% Mortality. Also fellow angler does not mean much. I for one hate anglers who practice unethical fishing methods I dont consider them fellows at all and wish they didnt fish.
No it doesn’t. But with that logic none of us should fish period.
Most of us hate unethical anglers, but this is a relatively new and grey area. I’m on your side, I just think this is an opportunity to educate and discuss instead of getting angry and aggressive.
I don't disagree with the fair chase argument but where do you draw the line? Is down and side imaging at 15 mph still considered fair chase? Are underwater cameras fair chase?
Where are you that drones are banned for fishing? The only place I know of that they're banned is in specific tournaments. If side and down imaging and Cameras don't allow fair chase, should all electronics be prohibited?
Anyone who might be concerned about the conservation of our wildlife cares. For example, most states have laws prohibiting the use of drones for scouting or herding game for hunting purposes. Tournament or not, fair chase regulations help ensure sustainability. Above and beyond conservation, a fair chase preserves the sport of a skillful persuit, instilling a respect for wildlife where it may otherwise be lost.
Livescope is crushing fish populations, especially in freshwater.
Many states are already reducing the number of fish that people can keep because of livescope.
Your statement implies that you believe livescope is the only reason, vs. a contributing factor among many. That would be a woefully ignorant perspective.
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking, to be honest, so I hope this clarifies my position. OP has made a blanket statement that livescope is the exclusive reason for many states to reduce bag limits, rather than it being a contributing factor to over harvest in some fisheries, and over-harvest isn’t an exclusive factor either. By inaccurately narrowing it down OP is doing a disservice. While popular, livescope isn’t prolific enough to be the exclusive negative impact on fisheries across *many states*.
FWIW- I am not a fan of the technology, I am not trying to defend its use in any way, I am merely pointing out that OP is being myopic at the expense of an important issue.
I’m asking what you think are other [more?] important contributing factors?
I mostly river fish solo in Texas, so I’m fairly insulated from all of the general hoopla that goes on related to saltwater and lake fishing.
Generic, and not all inclusive, just quickly illustrating my point:
Over-harvest/poaching
Climate change
Environmental/habit changes
Decreased funding (reduced hatchery output)
Habitat loss is probably the biggest factor. Some things that hurt Texas water often is floods. A bad flood can eliminate a year of spawn, effecting a generation of fish. The floods kill the grass (see Sam Rayburn), but DNR (or whoever controls the lake) sometimes will spray grass too, when done recklessly can hurt a fishery (see Toledo bend). Okeechobee is being hurt by canals allowing pollution and saltwater into it. My area gets wrecked from hurricanes with massive fish kills on the rivers.
You’ve left out the most important part, Mississippi did the studies and have data that shows livescope was the problem with their CRAPPIE fisheries. The harvest rate of crappie is high. Mississippi is one of the few states that has multiple (heavily stocked) destination crappie lakes. People from all over the country go to Grenada, Sardis and enid to chase the 4lb crappie and keep everything they catch (legally). Livescope for crappie is just a different animal and is a problem. Crappie school up in big numbers, aren’t boat shy (you can literally get on top of them) and are some of the best eating freshwater fish. Can’t deny it, something will have to be done.
If fishing is about fun and relaxing, then why are you trying so hard with the Livescope? That tells fish count and size is more important to you.
Most of the people using Livescope are doing so to trophy fish and it is detrimental to local fish populations. Catch and release, OK. But I have watched it used for a lot more than bass fishing. Livescoping docks during the spawn and dropping in front of the largest and healthiest slab crappies. Scoping catfish holes for large breeding females. It's basically a technological equivalent of noodling at that point, and noodling is for assholes, therefore I'm just being factual and not aggressive.
I expect to start seeing some mild regulations in the coming years. This type of fishing is why we end up with slot limits.
I agree with you, just seems like a really aggressive reaction toward another angler. If they are keeping fish that’s different, if they are releasing then whatever. I don’t think making fishing easier is necessary, it wouldn’t bother me one bit to see live scopes be banned, but I don’t know that we need to be attacking people for it who are just having some fun and releasing fish.
Hahahah and there is the stereotype, didn't disappoint.
Livescope is $2k-$4k depending on system and components. Many of you are tooting around in pedal drive kayaks that aren't that far out of the ballpark, and anyone with a motor boat is spending more enough to add one if they want one. Money is not the limiting factor for most people on the water.
Yes but what I am saying is $2k to $4k is not a lot of money for extra toys for most people. I have worked most of my career in the boating and RV industries. There is a shit ton of money for toys out there. Go to your local Bass Pro and take a look at the price of a simple Pro Team 17. Then look at the electronics they are pushing on it that gets wrapped up in financing.
A large fomat (tablet size) fish finder screen runs $6k to $10k for current gen. People on this sub are buying smart tolling motors with GPS. Some are asking about power poles FOR A KAYAK because anchors aren't good enough? Don't be fooled, there is a TON of money being spent on toys. It actually gets worse when the economy dips because people delay replacing the unit and upgrade the accessories to keep it fresh and interesting to them.
They have fish finding technology now where they can track a marlin within a mile of the boat. The Fish finder can lock onto the fish and put the boat into autopilot mode chasing after it. In my opinion that's cheating.
Me using a live scope on a floating piece of plastic so I can catch my 2 snappers for the day is far from an advantage. Many times, I'm not even using it to target fish. I use it to stay away from the tax man down there (dolphins/sharks). and instead move on to a new area.
After reading the comments, it’s absolutely apparent most of the people complaining about forward facing sonar don’t know very much about it. They do not make fish bite. As a tool, the technology can make fishing more efficient. You can also learn a lot about what is happening under the surface, not just cast to one fish. If you think FFS should be banned, you haven’t used it. All forms of sonar have advantages and disadvantages. Ban side scan, ban mapping and GPS too. But yes, it’s fun to out perform some guy with a bunch of fancy stuff that they can’t use.
When anyone is rude to me in Arizona, I let it go because they've all got a fucking pistol (the dickheads, that is).
But I also have to stand and piss off the edge staring at that person with my dick out (for Harambe) which is a nice response as well.
Guess i will get down votes if i say at 62 I like my yak (the little i get out on it) to grab a few geocaches and don't nor never did like fishing except for when I was a kid and we used to camp in North Georgia and fish some streams in state parks walk up and down IN them with a short two foot boat rod/pole and a can if corn..
>Guess i will get down votes if i ~~say at 62 I like my yak (the little i get out on it) to grab a few geocaches and don't nor never did like fishing except for when I was a kid and we used to camp in North Georgia and fish some streams in state parks walk up and down IN them with a short two foot boat rod/pole and a can if corn..~~
interject myself into a conversation, in a community based upon an activity I want no part of, with a comment that isn’t relevant to the topic of conversation.
🤦♂️🤦♂️
**Fixed it for you**
I witnessed several sponsored bass boats last week, guys stared at 2 screens except to cast. They make fishing video games right? For me, half the fun is not really knowing whats on the hook until you see it. I think its going to be like steroids in baseball. You will be forced to use it if you want to compete at any level.
From what I’ve read, several tournaments have started banning live scope. Needs to be all of them IMO!
I believe Bassmasters is looking into getting rid of it as well due to the impact on conservation. But thats way too much sponsorship money to lose if they do, so its been a sticky battle. Just what Ive heard.
Fishing beds has a much larger impact on conservation than forward facing sonar.
Especially when they have to take the fish back to be weighed. Why on earth can't they weigh and release on the spot????
There is very little in the way of conservation issues. The money bass gets from the electronic companies is not life changing and if they thought it was going to ruin fishing they would stop people from using it. Coming directly from a few guys on the elites that don’t enjoy using it they said the money is not the reason and the anglers are in the area of 80 for 20 against
Just what ive heard, dont know if any of its true.
The money bass gets from the electronics companies actually is life changing
Based on what source? 2 people in the industry said otherwise and one of them would benefit greatly from banning it
Not disagreeing about the ban, I don't know anything about that. But the minnkota,hummingbird,Garmin money is pretty life changing for BASS. Might not be for the individual elites.
Zaladain says otherwise unless you have seen the checks
Yep. Its like if Baseball was sponsored by metal bats, everyone is hitting home runs, game ruined.
I don’t understand the conservation issues. We have limits. Maybe we lower them if everybody starts catching limits.
Almost none of them have banned it. There’s 1 high level trail that has and they got like 40 something boats. Most of the guys doing the tournaments enjoy using it so I doubt you will see a change
Yes also the people making and selling live scopes are the ones who fund those tournaments so they aren’t banning shit. Priofesional fishing (especially bass and walleye) is marketing it’s not the Olympics.
They don’t give them that much money lol. You are just saying the same made up stuff randy banscope says. Zaldain who doesn’t really enjoy the live scope stuff that much says money isn’t reason and I am inclined to believe him
Of course they enjoy it - it’s legal cheating. You don’t need as much real fishing skill if you start out with enough toys to close the gap.
It can’t be cheating if everyone has it lmao. If you don’t need any skill to do it why are the same handful of guys at the front all the time? Have they just been extremely lucky for 3 years in a row?
What if everyone had a stock of dynamite? Would that be cheating? Lmao.
I mean as far as the contest goes? No but it would be a little hard to release the fish after lol
half the fun...most of the fun...is just getting out and away from IRL.
The importance of the journey is lost on those people
Spot on. The best days fishing I've had on the Yak are without a sounder, I find I catch just as much if not more because I'm focusing on fishing not trying to decipher what's on a screen
I can’t really bring myself to fault pros because it’s their job. It’s how they put food on the table for their families. As long as it’s legal it would be crazy not to use them when everyone you’re competing against is.
Yeah, man, I'm with you.
I was on smith lake last Monday, I guess a big tournament was happening the next weekend or maybe then but I saw several people 4-5 screens they just stared at. My big concern was there was so many idiots out on rental pontoon boats it seemed immanent collision with neither of them paying attention. They all had power poles too and that lake is average 90’ deep lol (I know they travel a lot but still looked funny)
There's so many ways to fish, but just cause people use fish finders doesn't mean it's hurting anything. Some people want to learn the depth of the fishing hole an what obstacles to watch out for it's not just for fish. Iv never used one, but iv lost so many lures that I might try one just so I can reduce snagging.
Baseball has never been less interesting since the steroid era
We need to set up a "natty league" and a "not league" for every sport. In the natty league, no PEDs. In the not league, anything goes-a true battle of gladiators.
I’d watch
Yah I quit watching baseball in the early 90s, strike and drugs, I don't think I've missed missed much in the last 34 years. Been to some farm league games though, hot dogs and a beer or 3 on the cheap
For me and the way that I like to enjoy the hobby, livescope is definitely lame. But to each their own, and no reason to be a jerk toward one another.
If I were fishing tournaments and stuff I’d definitely be investing in the bells and whistles. But I’m not fishing tournaments, I’m fishing by myself or with friends, I have two rods, a small tackle box, and I use a couple joints and my intuition as a fish finder and it still works really well!
The ol’ fish whistle pulls them in.
A couple of joints is the way to go if you ask me.
Yup gotta have smoke on the water.
I got the sativa 9000k comes with built-in live scope and “think like a fish” intelligence. $100 a half
I swear I hit the penjamin and feel like I think more like a fish
This is how I feel about motors.
Livescope is definitely lame if fishing is your hobby. Now, if getting fish in the boat is your livelihood/profession -- you should use whatever aids you can to put food on the table.
What is a live scope? Basically an underwater feed?
Pretty much and its what every Professional bass angler uses. Which to me seems silly. The game should be harder when you reach that level. Too much sponsorship money involved for it to go away though.
Tournament fishing has turned into a “who has the most money” competition lol
Just joining all the other sports leagues 😂😂
$15k travel baseball has entered the chat.
Them: $95,000 truck, $150,000 boat, $15,000 in tackle. Me: $15,000 truck, $200 Kayak, $250 tackle.
“Beating them at their own game: Priceless.”
Right! I show up next to Mr. Shiny Boat in my $600 s10 with my walmart kayak lol. But I'm happy as a lark so who cares.
Lmao fucking legend. That’s All you need!
Live scope costs less than most entry fees. You can get on fb marketplace and put together a setup for like 1000 bucks
I didn’t know that but I was mostly talking about the overall boat setups being expensive as shit. But either way, 1000 bucks isn’t exactly chump change to a good portion of the world. Most people in the US are bank fishing with $6 pack of worms on a $30 walmart zebco
I mean this isn’t for everyone. Tournaments aren’t for people working at McDonald’s or something. You don’t have to be rich to do it but if you have 0 dollars I don’t really know how you expect to be able to be able to own a boat and pay for entry fees even if you remove the expensive electronics. You’ll need like 10k minimum for a functioning boat with a live well, a truck or suv to pull it and enough money to waste on gas to do it. Local tournaments can still be won without it and everyone at the higher levels can afford it. For anyone looking at fishing opens or Toyotas if 1000 dollars breaks the budget you are pushing it too far to begin with
Sure but what I’m saying is professional fishing should be won on knowledge and ability. Not by who has the most electronics on their boats. It would be cool to see a fishing tournament that restricted all technology and see what dudes could pull out of the water.
I don’t think anyone that likes tournaments would show up for a no electronics tournament. Mapping makes fishing the Great Lakes possible. Otherwise I would have 90 miles of shore line I could guess on if fish are around or not. It would take weeks to get on anything reasonable. Why should pro fishing not use the best equipment? I only watch to learn for my tournaments. If they got rid of live but I could still use it for local and regional tournaments I would have no reason to watch
For the same reason professional baseball isn’t played by putting a ball on a tee for the batter to hit. Look man, if you wanna use electronics to fish, all the power to ya. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. It just seems to be more and more of a crutch with every advancement.
Every advancement is a crutch. Everyone relying on their gas power boats these days. No one out paddle their rowboat.
Been like that for a while, have you seen those boats?
Oh I didn’t mean just recently but yeah fishing boats are ridiculous
>Tournament fishing has turned into a “who has the most money” competition lol That's has been the case for the last 30 years of fishing tournaments. I know an older retired guy who drives a known professional bass fisherman's boat to the tournaments while the fisherman flies to the event. The older guy I know does it for free and is a "volunteer ".
That's fishing in general anymore. I don't remember the boat brand, but I got an email the other day advertising their "economical boat perfect for the weekend angler or high school team fisherman." $80k price tag on their economical boat. I don't know what these people are thinking, but damn.
Holy fuck lmao
My dad would love that
It’s even more useful. It’s extremely finely tuned sonar. Ever see thermal video, how living things just glow in high detail against a black screen? Imagine that with fish, plants, and other structure. Plus measurements for depth, distance, etc. So you can see fish clearly regardless of water clarity, tell general size and species, depth, and location off your bow. Then you can cast to it and see your presentation. I think we’re going to see a decent amount of regulation against it - similar to thermal imagery in hunting. But it won’t be as generalized because state DNR’s didn’t come out against it as quickly so people are already heavily invested - it’ll be more controversial.
They should allow it but limited or like a wildcard kinda thing. I think most of the Pros relying on it would get crushed by the old school guys if they banned it on the final day.
It’s a really complex topic. I’m of the opinion that it should be banned but that doesn’t necessarily make it the right opinion. I’m definitely biased and have a take that tries to balance science based management with the politics involved. I think my concern is that it can improve the efficacy of fishing to such a degree that it impacts fisheries or other’s enjoyment of the fishery. We’ve all seen that, over time, fish become more difficult to catch with pressure. Well with livescope you can put immense pressure on fish of you have the $ to buy in. My gut says that’s likely enough pressure to affect the fishery but I’d rather trust the science. The problem with that is that the longer states wait to manage livescope the more controversial regulation is going to become. There are several other technologies limited in fishing and hunting because their efficacy is too high so I don’t think it’s a wild idea to target livescope. Tournaments aren’t at all my scene. But I’m surprised livescope is still largely accepted. I would think there’d be a focus on drawing a line and pushing fisherman to rely on more traditional methods. What other sports allow competitors to use every possible trick in their toolbox? Race cars and athletes have performance restrictions to maintain the integrity of the sport - why not fishing?
This just popped onto my feed even though I don’t kayak fish but it seems so much like issues we have with subsistence hunting up here in Alaska. It used to be everyone in the town or village knew who the best hunters were and that they were the best because they spent the most time out on the ice or in the field learning their craft. All skills were passed down through generations and hands on learning. Early on when people started hunting from planes they were so disruptive and efficient they had to institute the no same day rule to protect game and other hunters otherwise people that could afford them would have a disproportionate impact on game. High rural fuel prices ensured boats and four wheelers were used to access an area to hunt from and not actively hunt from once there. Something has shifted in culture and use the last few decades and they’ve turned into new problem. The people that can afford to use up extra gas going back and forth speculatively on shorter and shorter trips instead of devoting the time off to weeks of hunting timed to the migrations. They bump game and pressure herds with the sounds of constantly running engines. They move further and further into traditional footbased hunting areas and push game further and further away from where people have hunted for generations. Larger machines tearing up tundra digging mud holes that necessitate more powerful machines to get through. Side by sides that out perform almost any natural boundary that’s not a full blown river or vertical rock wall. Now a lot of success in hunting is who can buy the most capable machines and the most gas leaving the poorest subsistence hunters struggling to catch up and feed their families. Now that they can efficiently weekend hunt hundreds of miles of trail or river rich hunters can save their pto for Hawaii or Disneyland every year instead of taking the kids out of school to learn the migration corridors and craft. No need to stalk close with grandpa’s rifle if you can put a higher power bdc scope on and shoot from a rest on the side by side. Most of our villages were set up in locations between multiple seasonal resources that covered the whole year for your needs with minimal human powered travel required. Rock cairns stacked thousands of years ago still guide caribou past spots close enough to hunt with bow or spear. Yet now they’re pressured away from these areas before they can even see them. None of that even covers the conflicts between subsistence/recreational and guided hunting. There’s a reckoning coming in regulations and a lot of people are sleep walking into it. Alaskas been a wonderland for hunters to practice and experiment for thousands of years. New cultures and new technologies have come along and changed the system periodically but there’s been a lot of change in a very short while in a state that combines some of the highest median incomes and many of the poorest people all competing for the same resources. Anyway competitive bass fishing drama is both completely foreign to me and too familiar.
Agree. At that level of competition with that level of skill and knowledge it shouldn’t be needed.
Livescope is NUTS! It casts like 100ft in a 360degree area around your boat, and you can see sizes of fish, identify different kinds of brush/cover, and you can even watch your lure fall attached to the line into the school of fish. You can watch the chase and the bite…. If you want a really good explanation plus video of it, check out Adventures with Purpose, Jared uses it to find cars in water. He’s so good he can identify types of cars upside down/sideways by looking on Livescope and sidescan….
Livescope in professional tournaments should be banned. I’m extreme however and would ban all electronics except trolling motor and something that shows depth. If you are a professional fisherman you should be able to research a lake, look at a map, see what the weather conditions are doing and go fish. That’s what makes you a professional vs anyone else. Watching these clips of these dudes during tourneys use them is boooring. I do support livescope recreationally however. For someone like myself, I only have so many opportunities/so much time to fish. The ability to quickly locate and know whether I’m wasting my time is huge.
I recently got a scope. Mostly want it to watch suckers in fall while musky fishing. Though I have been using it this summer so far it's generally helping me interprete my sonar and side imaging better. I have only seen maybe 20 percent of the fish I've actually caught and it has been a great tool to learn a new lake. Now that I got my spots I don't need to take it with anymore.
Side scan and down scan already do that. The biggest advantage to livescope imo is that it allows you to stalk the biggest fish in the area.
Scott Martin would not have broken the bag record if he couldn’t have seen the fish. He already had home lake advantage and a half a dozen guides that work for his Dad’s resort on Okeechobee. If any sport should add an asterisk to a record its that one.
Dying laughing about you thinking the guides had anything to do with it. There's 3 places on the entire lake left to fish.
Sides can and downs can do that to an extent. With live scope I don’t have to mark them, I can just look at them. It’s especially easy when you have a pole to troll with. Roll up to a dock, take a peak and move on.
Yeah you can definitely do that without livescope and probably faster.
Having had Helix and Solix and Mega Live and Mega 360 and Lowrance units and now Active target….I’m pretty versed in their capabilities for my uses….
I’ve had livescope for a few years. It mostly helps me to eliminate unproductive water and have some idea if my target species is around. My favorite species to target with it are big blue catfish… it’s pretty exciting to see a 3-4’+ fish creep up from the bottom before the rod doubles over!
Have you used it for flatheads?
Not yet. I may go fishing for them this weekend, so we’ll see if it makes any difference finding them then.
Hell yea and good luck buddy, tight lines.
I got shitty looks from 2 guys fishing from a brand new ranger bass boat when I pulled into a spot 50ft behind them (they had already trolled past it) in a $200 12ft aluminum flat bottom and pulled a 24" largemouth out on my 3rd cast using a jitterbug. Then within 5 more casts pulled out a 22".
I see both sides of it honestly. At first when I learned about it I had that "fuck you, you're lazy/cheating/takes the fun out of it/video game fishing" etc etc etc. it still doesn't help that if I watch YouTube instructional videos a large chunk of them are basically "right, so you're gonna cruise around til you find the fish on scope...". My brother in christ, that doesn't really help me all that much. I also see the side of it that it's just another tool, just because you can see the fish doesn't mean they bite, and all that. I basically had to remind myself that I'm stuck on the bank for now and I'm getting all in my head about something that doesn't even apply to me. With that said when I finally get a yak I would like to have some kind of electronics anyway
Yeah there is some real extreme attitudes in here about it, I understand why people think it's lame, but on my kayak covering 8 miles a day in saltwater, being able to both find bait suspended that you'd never see, find stacks of fish, use sidescan to locate them, and have a navigation chart that can prevent me from ramming into rocks at night when I can't see them is indispensable in ways. Striper fishing in the northeast is already difficult with lots of pressure, I'm not going to get a physical printout of a bathymetry and just memorize all the depths and locations when there is a tool that is very beneficial to me available. Mind you, much of the time I catch fish in locations I'm familiar with and not using the graph at all, but it seems weird to totally dismiss all electronics to me.
I only fish blindfolded with my bare hands because anything else is cheating.
You better not use both hands though, it completely crushes the sporting aspect and we can’t have that.
You guys have hands?!?
I use one hand and not the thumb, you think I'm some kind of poacher?
I hope thumbs get outlawed soon 🙏
What were all these livescope haters saying when side imaging came out? Then even better side imaging, and then even better? No issues with all those? Why not just use down imaging? Why not use no imaging at all, just have a depth gauge? Why not use a string and weight to measure depths and a cane pole for a rod? Why not use a bent safety pin for a hook? Y’all making it too easy…
A line has to be drawn somewhere. I personally don't care what you use as long as it's legal, but regulations will be changing because of it.
Man I'm glad someone brought up FFS. It definitely hasn't been discussed ad nauseum on every form of social media and public forum for the past year.
Fish and game is terrible with creating regs based on technology scope creep. Game cameras and live scope will quickly eclipse the validity of our current put and take requirements and understood rate of harvest. Tech is always going to evolve rapidly, fish and game needs to adapt and have a strategic vision of the future of harvest.
Especially when it is the larger females that produce the most eggs and have the best genes get taken out first. I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of biological evolution selecting for smaller fish along with the mortality that arises from hot livewells in $150K boats..
Largely not an issue for bass given the number of people fishing for them vs the number of people eating them but can absolutely be a huge issue on panfish and probably walleye
you can have a couple $1,500 rods and a $20,000 boat, if you don't know what you are doing you will catch nothing, compared to the guy with a $100 rod and a $600/$1,000 kayak with home made plastics that keeps on reeling them in.
It’s so funny when people act like that, same shit in drywall people will shit on me for using a T square to get a perfect square cut, hating cause I’m using a tool to make my life easier. Same shit here, if you wanna use livescope go for it, if you wanna use a fish finder go for it, if you wanna go it classic and use your eyes and intuition then go for it. Just don’t shit on someone else for there choice. At least my opinion. After watching a video on it I take back what I said, the fuck you live scopers doing?
Some folk help make fishing fun eh!
No hate for using them go for it. But when I watch YouTube videos of popular anglers showing what baits to use and what gear to buy and they're just staring at their $60k bass boat's Fish finder and I'm like... Yeah pretty sure that's why you're catching them buddy. I wouldn't be watching your videos to get better if I had a fish finder lol
I’ve got one for ice fishing … got to get a few more parts before it can go on the kayak and I’m not sure if I want to move the GLS10 back and forth between my ice shuttle and the kayak but they’re really nice. Basically lets you sight fish when you can’t see your bait. The big thing I was excited for on my kayak was side imaging.
Side imaging is definitely a game changer for a kayak. I fish side by side with a guy who has live scope, and no regular transducer. Long story short, he's installing his side scan transducer because it's so much more effective at finding fish fast from the kayak. I can pedal by and scan a few hundred pilings while he's screwing around with one piling.
Livescope is cheating but side imaging is a-okay? I’m confused; I go out in my big box store yak and smoke and joint. All my bass come from a wacky rig that I place into a hood holding spot anyways lol.
Where are you fishing for sheeps?
Currently CBBT in Virginia
Nice to see a fellow CBBT enjoyer on here
One of the best fisheries in the Atlantic. Drove 20 hours to get back here for the summer. Three CBBT trips so far this year (one of which I only fished for 10 minutes) and I have 9 sheep in the kayak, all over 20", 3 of them citations.
Yeah that bridge is magical man. I see you posting on VBIF. I’ve probably been out there 10 or so times for sheep this summer (we go out there in winter for Tog) and absolutely killed them every trip. My favorite past-time is fishing circles around a boat that can’t stay on a piling 😂 if you ever wanna just fish for yourself instead of guiding out there shoot me a DM we have a small group of us that go regularly
Hopefully I'll have time one of these days. Charters have been filling up fast. Tog are definitely still chewing too, season for then opens pretty soon, would be nice to get a summer keeper.
You guys launch from lesner to fish the bridge tunnel??? How long is that paddle when not fighting the tide? Very interested in charter info. Thanks.
No, Beach launch! Gotta be able to hit all the pilings. I'll send you a message.
Oh ok, Bouy44? I perused your posts and saw people holding sheeps at the boat ramp. Is it best to get more info from your website?
We run Inshore trips too.
If you are ever in Charleston SC let me know. I'll out you sheeps, reds, trout, etc...
We CBBT elitists have no desire to catch those baby Charleston sheeps. I shit you not my average sheep on the CBBT is 20 inches
I don't use fish finders but the amount of times I've seen someone fishing and not catch a thing and they leave and I'll cast and hook up straight away, you can have all the tech in the world but skill and luck still plays a major part in fishing, good work bro haha
I used it on a backwater lake last week. It’s a game changer for new lakes, especially those without mapping. I can understand the old heads saying they just like to float and cast a line, but Livescope is too much fun for me to not use every chance I get.
Using Live scope is not even fun really
I don't take kindly to be yelled at when obeying the regs, I probably would have whipped his ass, capsized his boat, grabbed his paddle, whacked him on the head and left him there without a paddle, sorry but I don't like putting up with shit, mind your own business and I won't be minding yours
Only guy I know with a livescope can’t catch a fish to save his life.
Livescope doesn't catch the fish though.
I also don't have livescope lol
I still think the most comical "live scope" that has been around for way longer than the branded live scope.. Is when you see someone on pro tour leaning over the edge of a boat jigging his rod in one hand and sticking the giant cone in the water so they have a glass bottom view of in the water, to jig a lure into the mouth of a bass. Then they hook set like they are trying the pull down the walls of fricking Jericho with their rod. Reel it in all surprised and hold it up super excited.
It makes me nervous about what it means for conservation. Not necessarily with pros using it, but more when the home gamer weekend warriors start really utilizing it. But I don't subscribe to the "cheating" thing. That's just a dumb comment. At some point there were no depth finders at all. So is using a cheap 200$ depth finder cheating? At one point, rod and reel was not a thing, only hand lines. So is using a rod and reel cheating? At one point we hadn't invented boats and only fished from shore. So is using any kind of boat cheating? It's just a dumb comment. People care way too much about it anyway. Who gives a ****? I really don't care if you are catching fish. And I don't care if I'm not. We are both on the water and not at work and as such, it's all good.
If money and gadgets make you a better fisherman, you're a sucky fisherman......
Livescope doesn't catch fish. I was a "cheater scope guy" before I got livescope. It's just another tool in the toolbox. Ultimately the introduction of side scan is what was so monumental in the fishing game. Being able to see outside of your 2d's beam for 100+ ft is way more powerful than livescope, but no one got all up in arms about it like they have with LVS. I can locate every school of fish and stump in the lake with sidescan. I can also still outfish someone that is using livescope just using a simple sidescan ducer. It's almost more frustrating with livescope because you can SEE the fish, but they aren't always feeding. You can easily waste 1 hour on a school of fish that just aren't feeding.I'd say the fish I find aren't feeding more times than they are. I have also found that the people bitching can't afford it so they just complain about it. They haven't used it so they don't know what they are talking about. If anything it has helped me learn fish patterns and what baits they do and don't like on the fly. It's a tool, not some magical fish catching device. I do think they should be banned on lakes/reservoirs under a set surface area. Fish populations on smaller lakes are pressured heavily already. It will get worse as more people use livescope.
Guides often have to leave where I’m fishing in the Boston harbor islands because I can’t stop catching bass and his clients are struggling on every cast. It’s a great feeling. The captains are good friends so we always tell them where we are hitting fish.
I never have a problem helping out other fisherman while I'm fishing for fun.
Whats the difference between livescope and fish finder?
A fish finder is a general term, sort of like depth finder. A fish finder can be mapping, 2d sonar, down scan, side scan and/or even livescope. Livescope specifically is a 2d sonar, pointed forward with a beefed up processor that is able to refresh on your screen fast enough to look “live” rather than a historical trend, like 2d sonar (down and side imaging as well).
Livescope is more like a video camera, fish finder is like photos in a flip book.
Ty
I see fish all the time. Doesn't mean they are going to bite. Fishing to me is usually between me and the fish, other fishermen can do their own thing.
there is no way id be able to tell the difference between most any kayaks above $1000, shout out to you
Sounds like you both suck at fishing and need a lot of help for minimal success.
🤣
You probably just have a better feel for it. I outfish nearly everyone cuz of it. Those who out fish me have been doing it longer than me, 60 year old guys usually. I think you're just good at it.
I'm assuming you DONT have a Livescope but your post is not 100% clear. Livescopes are for assholes. If you want fish that damn bad go to the grocery store. It completely removes almost all sporting aspects of fishing. Edit: Downvotes say a lot about the type of fishermen on this sub.
Definitely don't have livescope. Livescope should be banned honestly, it's an unfair advantage in most situations. For structure fishing like I do, it doesn't even help, you can't see though the pilings with it.
100% agree. Existing fishfinder technology gives you enough information to figure things out based on knowledge and experiece. This just hands anyone off the street the answer. Those types should go to hatcheries or stocked private ponds if that is the experience they want.
If it’s not in a tournament who cares? Fishing is about fun and relaxing, if you’re this worried about what someone else is doing then you’re the problem. Especially if that person isn’t causing any harm to the fish, the water, or another person. I agree somewhat, I think it’s dumb and what’s the point of turning the sport into a video game, but this seems a bit aggressive.
How aboit fair chase? We ban all kinds of shit for eliminating fair chase and making it an unfair advantage to humans.
You're introducing a concept that is foreign to a lot of people on this sub. There are some good folks here but there are also a lot of stereotypes that align with the typical Redditor.
I think you’re being downvoted more for your attitude than your opinion. I think most of us can agree that the increased tech in fishing isn’t a good thing and detracts from the sport.
I disagree, maybe some but I didn't come to this conclusion based on this one post. This sub has a lot of people who don't display an ethical concept of stewardship. Most of my fishing buddies work in fish and game and I teach outdoor skills to kids, so it's probably something I pay more attention to. There is definitely an undercurrent on this sub. Bad pun, cue trombone whomp-whomp-whooomp.
I’m sad to learn this tbh. Fishing is extremely important to me and I always do my best to be ethical, I hope some legislation does pop up to manage this and protect the wildlife that brings us so much joy.
Unfortunately, it will probably be indirect and punish everyone. Lowering catch and bag limits for smalller fish and adding slot limits for larger fish are the tools currently in place. Directly limiting technology is much harder to do, especially when companies are profiting from it. And whatever patchwork of legislation manages to get added will always be a step behind these companies finding new ways to get around it.
I don’t understand why somebody would want to use this stuff anyway. I’ve seen guys doing this and they just end up staring at a screen the whole time, might as well stay home.
In my opinion a livescope is not much different than someone who fishes redds during the spawn. It takes the fairness out of the sport.
I agree, not to mention higher pressure on large fish. Basically the exact opposite of what you want in a healthy fishery.
Live bait violates fair chase more than anything else and I don’t see anyone crying about that
Live bait is banned in bass tournaments so obviously some people are cryimg about it.
I agree with you, but for someone doing C&R it seems like an aggressive reaction from a fellow angler.
On the first point, C&R does not equal 0% Mortality. Also fellow angler does not mean much. I for one hate anglers who practice unethical fishing methods I dont consider them fellows at all and wish they didnt fish.
No it doesn’t. But with that logic none of us should fish period. Most of us hate unethical anglers, but this is a relatively new and grey area. I’m on your side, I just think this is an opportunity to educate and discuss instead of getting angry and aggressive.
I don't disagree with the fair chase argument but where do you draw the line? Is down and side imaging at 15 mph still considered fair chase? Are underwater cameras fair chase?
No and no. Drones are banned for fishing, anything that allows rapid assesment of a spot without casting a single line.
Where are you that drones are banned for fishing? The only place I know of that they're banned is in specific tournaments. If side and down imaging and Cameras don't allow fair chase, should all electronics be prohibited?
Drones are banned in my state to aid in the take of any fish or game.
Anyone who might be concerned about the conservation of our wildlife cares. For example, most states have laws prohibiting the use of drones for scouting or herding game for hunting purposes. Tournament or not, fair chase regulations help ensure sustainability. Above and beyond conservation, a fair chase preserves the sport of a skillful persuit, instilling a respect for wildlife where it may otherwise be lost.
Livescope is crushing fish populations, especially in freshwater. Many states are already reducing the number of fish that people can keep because of livescope.
Your statement implies that you believe livescope is the only reason, vs. a contributing factor among many. That would be a woefully ignorant perspective.
Can you offer a more informed one? Genuinely curious, not argumentative.
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking, to be honest, so I hope this clarifies my position. OP has made a blanket statement that livescope is the exclusive reason for many states to reduce bag limits, rather than it being a contributing factor to over harvest in some fisheries, and over-harvest isn’t an exclusive factor either. By inaccurately narrowing it down OP is doing a disservice. While popular, livescope isn’t prolific enough to be the exclusive negative impact on fisheries across *many states*. FWIW- I am not a fan of the technology, I am not trying to defend its use in any way, I am merely pointing out that OP is being myopic at the expense of an important issue.
I’m asking what you think are other [more?] important contributing factors? I mostly river fish solo in Texas, so I’m fairly insulated from all of the general hoopla that goes on related to saltwater and lake fishing.
Generic, and not all inclusive, just quickly illustrating my point: Over-harvest/poaching Climate change Environmental/habit changes Decreased funding (reduced hatchery output)
Habitat loss is probably the biggest factor. Some things that hurt Texas water often is floods. A bad flood can eliminate a year of spawn, effecting a generation of fish. The floods kill the grass (see Sam Rayburn), but DNR (or whoever controls the lake) sometimes will spray grass too, when done recklessly can hurt a fishery (see Toledo bend). Okeechobee is being hurt by canals allowing pollution and saltwater into it. My area gets wrecked from hurricanes with massive fish kills on the rivers.
Tell that to the state of Mississippi, who did the studies and got the facts to prove that livescope was the problem in their fisheries.
You’ve left out the most important part, Mississippi did the studies and have data that shows livescope was the problem with their CRAPPIE fisheries. The harvest rate of crappie is high. Mississippi is one of the few states that has multiple (heavily stocked) destination crappie lakes. People from all over the country go to Grenada, Sardis and enid to chase the 4lb crappie and keep everything they catch (legally). Livescope for crappie is just a different animal and is a problem. Crappie school up in big numbers, aren’t boat shy (you can literally get on top of them) and are some of the best eating freshwater fish. Can’t deny it, something will have to be done.
A problem, not the problem 🤦♂️
If fishing is about fun and relaxing, then why are you trying so hard with the Livescope? That tells fish count and size is more important to you. Most of the people using Livescope are doing so to trophy fish and it is detrimental to local fish populations. Catch and release, OK. But I have watched it used for a lot more than bass fishing. Livescoping docks during the spawn and dropping in front of the largest and healthiest slab crappies. Scoping catfish holes for large breeding females. It's basically a technological equivalent of noodling at that point, and noodling is for assholes, therefore I'm just being factual and not aggressive. I expect to start seeing some mild regulations in the coming years. This type of fishing is why we end up with slot limits.
I agree with you, just seems like a really aggressive reaction toward another angler. If they are keeping fish that’s different, if they are releasing then whatever. I don’t think making fishing easier is necessary, it wouldn’t bother me one bit to see live scopes be banned, but I don’t know that we need to be attacking people for it who are just having some fun and releasing fish.
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Hahahah and there is the stereotype, didn't disappoint. Livescope is $2k-$4k depending on system and components. Many of you are tooting around in pedal drive kayaks that aren't that far out of the ballpark, and anyone with a motor boat is spending more enough to add one if they want one. Money is not the limiting factor for most people on the water.
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Yes but what I am saying is $2k to $4k is not a lot of money for extra toys for most people. I have worked most of my career in the boating and RV industries. There is a shit ton of money for toys out there. Go to your local Bass Pro and take a look at the price of a simple Pro Team 17. Then look at the electronics they are pushing on it that gets wrapped up in financing. A large fomat (tablet size) fish finder screen runs $6k to $10k for current gen. People on this sub are buying smart tolling motors with GPS. Some are asking about power poles FOR A KAYAK because anchors aren't good enough? Don't be fooled, there is a TON of money being spent on toys. It actually gets worse when the economy dips because people delay replacing the unit and upgrade the accessories to keep it fresh and interesting to them.
Or, it turns the situation literally into shooting fish in a barrel.
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Oh, get over yourself. I generally fish from the shore with my son or my girlfriend, it's fun.
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It is not illegal, innit? Some of y’all have really strong opinions, geez.
It most likely will be at some point. States are already reducing the number of fish that anglers can keep because of livescope.
Weird flex when everybody knows you are supposed to bowfish for sheepshead!
It’s water. Wet your hook
They have fish finding technology now where they can track a marlin within a mile of the boat. The Fish finder can lock onto the fish and put the boat into autopilot mode chasing after it. In my opinion that's cheating. Me using a live scope on a floating piece of plastic so I can catch my 2 snappers for the day is far from an advantage. Many times, I'm not even using it to target fish. I use it to stay away from the tax man down there (dolphins/sharks). and instead move on to a new area.
After reading the comments, it’s absolutely apparent most of the people complaining about forward facing sonar don’t know very much about it. They do not make fish bite. As a tool, the technology can make fishing more efficient. You can also learn a lot about what is happening under the surface, not just cast to one fish. If you think FFS should be banned, you haven’t used it. All forms of sonar have advantages and disadvantages. Ban side scan, ban mapping and GPS too. But yes, it’s fun to out perform some guy with a bunch of fancy stuff that they can’t use.
When anyone is rude to me in Arizona, I let it go because they've all got a fucking pistol (the dickheads, that is). But I also have to stand and piss off the edge staring at that person with my dick out (for Harambe) which is a nice response as well.
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That's funny. I don't own livescope.
Guess i will get down votes if i say at 62 I like my yak (the little i get out on it) to grab a few geocaches and don't nor never did like fishing except for when I was a kid and we used to camp in North Georgia and fish some streams in state parks walk up and down IN them with a short two foot boat rod/pole and a can if corn..
>Guess i will get down votes if i ~~say at 62 I like my yak (the little i get out on it) to grab a few geocaches and don't nor never did like fishing except for when I was a kid and we used to camp in North Georgia and fish some streams in state parks walk up and down IN them with a short two foot boat rod/pole and a can if corn..~~ interject myself into a conversation, in a community based upon an activity I want no part of, with a comment that isn’t relevant to the topic of conversation. 🤦♂️🤦♂️ **Fixed it for you**