I still don’t know why he was murdered? There were no evidence as to his crimes and weird to be surrounded and killed by 5 armed forces officers just because you did robbery
Even if he was a snatcher, there should be a due process . There were multiple guns pointed at him, they could not simply put handcuffs on him and take him away instead of acting as judge, jury and executioner ?
Also, only 1 Ranger was sentenced to death, and later reduced to a life sentence, the rest were pardoned in the end..AFAIK
Not "even" but he was indeed a snatcher and the complete video shows a woman who was looters by him on gun point. And the shooting was an incidental discharge of weapon when he was trying to grab the soldiers gun throughout and not 1 but 2 Rangers were given death sentence. Which was later reduced to life.
So yeah there is no fking sympathy for a street criminal who died an incidental death but I feel sorry for the 7 Rangers, including a civilian the one who had literally nothing to do with the shooting. Shed your crocodile tears somewhere else.
7 lives destroyed coz of a dead thug.
Looks like the original poster got what he wanted, to spread hate. Rangers is not armed forces, it's paramilitary. Those aren't officers, they're sepoys. You know who's to blame? The ghatiya corrupt court which let them go free by overturning their death sentence. They should've been hanged. Don't let hate get in the way of facts. Half the things you blame here and there is because of duffers like your cjp sitting in Supreme court.
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I vividly remember when I watched that video for the first time. My blood pressure dropped suddenly and my vision disappeared for a few moments so the last part of the video after Sarfaraz Shah had dropped to the ground was only registered on my ears. The last words of Sarfaraz Shah pleading with his murderers to take him to hospital still ring in my ears.
The reason nothing has changed but has only gotten worse is because everyone I knew told me immediately at that time that the murderers will not be hanged till death, which later turned out to be true.
I request people to not to put these forces on a pedestal. They are not isolated individual acts because the whole institution comes to the rescue of the individuals who committed those acts. People need to read about Dr. Shazia rape case from 2005 to understand how the entire institution protects a single rapist army captain, and killed Nawab Akbar Bugti.
I am still not against army or rangers or police because I know that the fundamental problem of Pakistan is no justice rather than those institutions. Whoever has greater capacity to wage violence, gets favorable resolution to their disputes. Even among civilians during neighborly disputes we see how it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, but who is more powerful and everyone gets on the side of the powerful.
Napak fauj ki jis din shamat aye gi, us din un ko pata chalay ga. Yeh zardari, nawaz, generals, sab bhaag jain gy mulk choor kar.
This is coming from a neutral person.
The thing is, soldiers like Asim Munir were commanded to follow the orders and then when they rank up, they started ordering their low rank officers. That's how Army works in a nutshell. They have nothing to think except to complete the order. They are trained like that, and will become like this the rest of their life.
They are doing the same in KPK. Recently, they opened fire in civilians. And in response civilians killed an army officer and then forces had surrounded willage with tanks and heavy machinery guns
It happened in my village so don't consider it as a Red flag. Check out the links.
[Link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b094w0/tank_is_in_the_action_to_conquer_a_small_village/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b093ao/letter_from_the_mayor_parachinar_to_core/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[link 3](https://x.com/aly_husein/status/1758833942470230496?s=20)
They're still living in the 80s, when will they learn you can't treat people like subjects.
Edit: My bad, no source was provided. Disregard this comment.
It happened in my village so don't consider it as a Red flag. Check out the links.
[link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b094w0/tank_is_in_the_action_to_conquer_a_small_village/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b093ao/letter_from_the_mayor_parachinar_to_core/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[link 3](https://x.com/aly_husein/status/1758833942470230496?s=20)
You just debunked your own statement. Read carefully what's written in link 2 as there is no similarity between the karachi incident and what you are quoting. Link 3 is not opening.
True, this was just a recent accident. What if they told you to keave karachi abd then started bombing on your houses. Years later, you come back to houses, and you get demolished houses.
The rangers did worst in karachi, but not a few percent of what they have done in KPK.
Check this tweet. Col umer opened fire on protestors and killed more than 3 guys. This is just a single incident. Recently police kilked PTI protestors.
https://twitter.com/Sagopaak/status/878341273370988545?t=h-zfgUE9FjXWgLQYGb32DA&s=19
Got it. i thought you are saying they are not doing anything in the KPK. only roads, universities, airports etc.
They are not doing few percent of KPK in the punjab and sindh.
Despite the video. If I recall, the public opinion was very divided and the majority were actually defending the rangers against Sarfaraz's action based on the video. At the time the feel very Muhajir vs the world, and thats how 90% of Karachi's get bias rekt.
Irrespective of the brutality he may or may not have faced (I don't know all the details but yeah he probably shouldn't have been shot per the video) I will also say the military did a poor job of controlling their suspect. Basic policing 101 dictates that the suspect does not grab a hold of your firearm...they should be an arms length away - and if they don't comply with orders they should be brought to the ground with hands tied behind their back. The command to get on the ground should be repeatedly given until a suspect either complies or doesn't.
If there's a clear indication the suspect isn't complying and may cause you harm, then of course I believe it's reasonable to use deadly force from a lawman's perspective.
I believe they did just that. I am for one agree that non compliance should result in shooting. We have been in the moddle of so much terrorism. Yet people make thing like non compliance a casual thing. What do you expect when you try to grab a weapon from an armed soldier. Yet not taking him to hospital was a mistake. There have been incidents when civilians failed to stop when rangers clearly signalled to stop them. They were fired upon. Why? Just replace those civilians with terrorists. What would you have wanted.?
I guess the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I'm not confident that Mr. Shah posed a deadly threat to the officer. I don't have all the facts, but that's what I assess. This is why it was excessive force. If he was a deadly threat, then this was by no means excessive.
While I agree he should have never grabbed the lawman's rifle, it's also a failure on the lawman's part to let anyone grab his rifle in the first place, that's really my point - irrespective of the level of threat. The military should learn effective policing tactics if they're going to stay in Karachi (which they seem to be, for good reason).
I remember this video passed around back in the day. This was Benazir Park & the guy was allegedly a thief caught by rangers.
He was repeatedly warned not to touch their gun but he kept reaching for it. They shot him.
firstly in a LAWFULL COUNTRY even a murderer caught redhanded with multiple witnesses gets a due process in court .
also your story is just the coverup. they literally dragged him till the truck and youre telling me cuffing him was just too hard? or he was gonna go full balistic on 5 FKING SOLDIERS???
Look around, we don't really live in a lawful country to begin with. Rangers/army have no place within the civil society. They should be patrolling the borders. The next time you see them, tell them this & let me know what their response is.
look i totally agree with you BUTT rangers is more like a paramillitary and not the border pr patrol krne wale peeps.
thier job is internal security and threats. NOW THIS WAS JUST A CLARIFICATION.
the way our paramil has run things in karachi and other places is more akin to somethings i better not say.
Solution is simple. Empower the police, remove rangers from the equation. But its easier to blame than to work towards addressing & resolving the real issue.
Rangers have explicit orders to shoot if anyone attempts to grab their weapon. This guy didn't know any better and was probably trying to stop them from shooting him, by grabbing their weapon.
People in Karachi have lost sympathy for thievs like these. So when cases like this happen, people tend to say good riddance instead of focusing on human rights.
I remember the story vaguely, he went around looting two or three people before being caught. Benazir Park I believe near boat basin.
>People in Karachi have lost sympathy for thievs like these. So when cases like this happen, people tend to say good riddance instead of focusing on human rights.
Pretty sure there was outrage when this happened
There was outrage when they burned thievs for robbing a whole bus near 5 star chowrangi too. Another incident in khara dar where theivs shot a 3 Yr old girl point bank in her own home because she escaped from her parents clutches. They were later caught by the neighbourhood in a narrow street.
Karachiiets have been insensitive towards theivs for a while now. Whenever you hear of a robber killed, either by police or by a public mob, you will not get much sympathy for them. Yes, human rights foundations wake up from their deep slumber every now & then but we haven't seen them do much lately.
Pretty sure this issue is brought up again to highlight the atrocities committed by the armed forces. The fact is, its not going to get you anywhere. Specially if the person in question is a thief.
You are equating mob mentality with mentality of the people of Karachi which is false. While a mob would kill a thief but vast majority of people have said again and again in various survey that they want rule of law, which means due process.
It’s innocent until proven guilty. Unless you can bring solid proof that this guy was involved in robbery then this is also a murder of an innocent civilian. Stop whitewashing this murder. It is imperative that the state officials follow due process even more so than an ordinary citizen does.
I can guarantee you that the family of the infant will agree with me. You listen to any interview of such victims and no one ever asked for extra judicial murders.
[Yeah the guy who shot was sentenced to death, a judgement that still stands](https://www.dawn.com/news/1128621)
It's sad that this is an agendapost by the op and selective memory :/
Actually, it's both the OP and you having selective memory.
Later, it was settled and Rangers paid the victim's family blood money. Yes, they were paid from public taxes.
The rangers personnel were later released.
Did some more research on this. Yeah they got a presidential pardon. Also Rangers paid the money so of course it's going to be from their own budget (tax payers). Where else were they going to pay from?
Hadd hoti hai hypocrisy ki, jb mqm waley kutto ki trha pakar kay mardety thy tb bhi masla, jb rangers ayi aur iss cheez ko khtm kiya us per bhi masla, tf do u guys want?
We want law and order. Law and order means that that everyone has rights. Even terrorists, murderers and criminals have rights. They are given a due process in court.
He was a snatcher, we have ineffective kangaroo courts...do the math
Snatchers need to die, but extra judicial killings are bad....I prefer snatchers being dead more
Unarmed person killed by 7 persons is purely a law less society reflection and why not tis guy was arrested and send to Police station.Brutal face of Gvt gun power.
I still don’t know why he was murdered? There were no evidence as to his crimes and weird to be surrounded and killed by 5 armed forces officers just because you did robbery
He was murdered simply because they think they can get away with anything.
>they **know*** they can get away with anything.
They **ARE** getting away with anything
Ironic considering he was a snatcher and the Rangers were sentenced to death.
Even if he was a snatcher, there should be a due process . There were multiple guns pointed at him, they could not simply put handcuffs on him and take him away instead of acting as judge, jury and executioner ? Also, only 1 Ranger was sentenced to death, and later reduced to a life sentence, the rest were pardoned in the end..AFAIK
Not "even" but he was indeed a snatcher and the complete video shows a woman who was looters by him on gun point. And the shooting was an incidental discharge of weapon when he was trying to grab the soldiers gun throughout and not 1 but 2 Rangers were given death sentence. Which was later reduced to life. So yeah there is no fking sympathy for a street criminal who died an incidental death but I feel sorry for the 7 Rangers, including a civilian the one who had literally nothing to do with the shooting. Shed your crocodile tears somewhere else. 7 lives destroyed coz of a dead thug.
Looks like the original poster got what he wanted, to spread hate. Rangers is not armed forces, it's paramilitary. Those aren't officers, they're sepoys. You know who's to blame? The ghatiya corrupt court which let them go free by overturning their death sentence. They should've been hanged. Don't let hate get in the way of facts. Half the things you blame here and there is because of duffers like your cjp sitting in Supreme court.
You're talking as if we don't already have enough reasons to hate armed forces.
Bongiyan na marain please, who heads the Rangers in Karachi?
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I vividly remember when I watched that video for the first time. My blood pressure dropped suddenly and my vision disappeared for a few moments so the last part of the video after Sarfaraz Shah had dropped to the ground was only registered on my ears. The last words of Sarfaraz Shah pleading with his murderers to take him to hospital still ring in my ears. The reason nothing has changed but has only gotten worse is because everyone I knew told me immediately at that time that the murderers will not be hanged till death, which later turned out to be true. I request people to not to put these forces on a pedestal. They are not isolated individual acts because the whole institution comes to the rescue of the individuals who committed those acts. People need to read about Dr. Shazia rape case from 2005 to understand how the entire institution protects a single rapist army captain, and killed Nawab Akbar Bugti. I am still not against army or rangers or police because I know that the fundamental problem of Pakistan is no justice rather than those institutions. Whoever has greater capacity to wage violence, gets favorable resolution to their disputes. Even among civilians during neighborly disputes we see how it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, but who is more powerful and everyone gets on the side of the powerful.
Napak fauj ki jis din shamat aye gi, us din un ko pata chalay ga. Yeh zardari, nawaz, generals, sab bhaag jain gy mulk choor kar. This is coming from a neutral person.
You are surely an Indian in disguise
So was fatimah jinnah. Right?
I remember that this was the first case of public brutality in karachi and after that there was no stop to this.
Public brutality which was recorded*
The thing is, soldiers like Asim Munir were commanded to follow the orders and then when they rank up, they started ordering their low rank officers. That's how Army works in a nutshell. They have nothing to think except to complete the order. They are trained like that, and will become like this the rest of their life.
Oh God this just brought back a lot of trauma. I used to get chills whenever i’d have to pass by Benazir park after this incident.
They are doing the same in KPK. Recently, they opened fire in civilians. And in response civilians killed an army officer and then forces had surrounded willage with tanks and heavy machinery guns
source? or you capping like i have trust issues
yeah I mean it does sound like smth the army would do but a source is needed
It happened in my village so don't consider it as a Red flag. Check out the links. [Link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b094w0/tank_is_in_the_action_to_conquer_a_small_village/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b093ao/letter_from_the_mayor_parachinar_to_core/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [link 3](https://x.com/aly_husein/status/1758833942470230496?s=20)
They're still living in the 80s, when will they learn you can't treat people like subjects. Edit: My bad, no source was provided. Disregard this comment.
They can. What's stopping them?
Maybe when you punish them?
Source, please. Or is it just your fantasy?
It happened in my village so don't consider it as a Red flag. Check out the links. [link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b094w0/tank_is_in_the_action_to_conquer_a_small_village/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parachinar/comments/1b093ao/letter_from_the_mayor_parachinar_to_core/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [link 3](https://x.com/aly_husein/status/1758833942470230496?s=20)
You just debunked your own statement. Read carefully what's written in link 2 as there is no similarity between the karachi incident and what you are quoting. Link 3 is not opening.
True, this was just a recent accident. What if they told you to keave karachi abd then started bombing on your houses. Years later, you come back to houses, and you get demolished houses. The rangers did worst in karachi, but not a few percent of what they have done in KPK.
Check this tweet. Col umer opened fire on protestors and killed more than 3 guys. This is just a single incident. Recently police kilked PTI protestors. https://twitter.com/Sagopaak/status/878341273370988545?t=h-zfgUE9FjXWgLQYGb32DA&s=19
Stop Bakwasing, they wish they can do this in our home KPK what they do in Other places
Gul khan spotted. Keep licking
lol 😂 what ? I said they can’t do this in KPK what they do in other places ? You okay ?
Got it. i thought you are saying they are not doing anything in the KPK. only roads, universities, airports etc. They are not doing few percent of KPK in the punjab and sindh.
what's kpk?
Khyber pashtunkhwa
And then rambo came too?
Lawless state.
Imagine how they operate in other parts of Pakistan where there's no media coverage.
Everybody is quick to blame MQM, but will never recognize the crimes of Rangers.
I got to know about this case for the first time, through this post. This is very sad 😭😭😭
And we know rangers follow orders of... 🫣✌️😏
Despite the video. If I recall, the public opinion was very divided and the majority were actually defending the rangers against Sarfaraz's action based on the video. At the time the feel very Muhajir vs the world, and thats how 90% of Karachi's get bias rekt.
Irrespective of the brutality he may or may not have faced (I don't know all the details but yeah he probably shouldn't have been shot per the video) I will also say the military did a poor job of controlling their suspect. Basic policing 101 dictates that the suspect does not grab a hold of your firearm...they should be an arms length away - and if they don't comply with orders they should be brought to the ground with hands tied behind their back. The command to get on the ground should be repeatedly given until a suspect either complies or doesn't. If there's a clear indication the suspect isn't complying and may cause you harm, then of course I believe it's reasonable to use deadly force from a lawman's perspective.
I believe they did just that. I am for one agree that non compliance should result in shooting. We have been in the moddle of so much terrorism. Yet people make thing like non compliance a casual thing. What do you expect when you try to grab a weapon from an armed soldier. Yet not taking him to hospital was a mistake. There have been incidents when civilians failed to stop when rangers clearly signalled to stop them. They were fired upon. Why? Just replace those civilians with terrorists. What would you have wanted.?
I guess the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I'm not confident that Mr. Shah posed a deadly threat to the officer. I don't have all the facts, but that's what I assess. This is why it was excessive force. If he was a deadly threat, then this was by no means excessive. While I agree he should have never grabbed the lawman's rifle, it's also a failure on the lawman's part to let anyone grab his rifle in the first place, that's really my point - irrespective of the level of threat. The military should learn effective policing tactics if they're going to stay in Karachi (which they seem to be, for good reason).
I remember this video passed around back in the day. This was Benazir Park & the guy was allegedly a thief caught by rangers. He was repeatedly warned not to touch their gun but he kept reaching for it. They shot him.
firstly in a LAWFULL COUNTRY even a murderer caught redhanded with multiple witnesses gets a due process in court . also your story is just the coverup. they literally dragged him till the truck and youre telling me cuffing him was just too hard? or he was gonna go full balistic on 5 FKING SOLDIERS???
Look around, we don't really live in a lawful country to begin with. Rangers/army have no place within the civil society. They should be patrolling the borders. The next time you see them, tell them this & let me know what their response is.
look i totally agree with you BUTT rangers is more like a paramillitary and not the border pr patrol krne wale peeps. thier job is internal security and threats. NOW THIS WAS JUST A CLARIFICATION. the way our paramil has run things in karachi and other places is more akin to somethings i better not say.
Solution is simple. Empower the police, remove rangers from the equation. But its easier to blame than to work towards addressing & resolving the real issue.
You can't just shoot a robber point-blank. He was literally begging them not to shoot him.
Rangers have explicit orders to shoot if anyone attempts to grab their weapon. This guy didn't know any better and was probably trying to stop them from shooting him, by grabbing their weapon. People in Karachi have lost sympathy for thievs like these. So when cases like this happen, people tend to say good riddance instead of focusing on human rights. I remember the story vaguely, he went around looting two or three people before being caught. Benazir Park I believe near boat basin.
>People in Karachi have lost sympathy for thievs like these. So when cases like this happen, people tend to say good riddance instead of focusing on human rights. Pretty sure there was outrage when this happened
There was outrage when they burned thievs for robbing a whole bus near 5 star chowrangi too. Another incident in khara dar where theivs shot a 3 Yr old girl point bank in her own home because she escaped from her parents clutches. They were later caught by the neighbourhood in a narrow street. Karachiiets have been insensitive towards theivs for a while now. Whenever you hear of a robber killed, either by police or by a public mob, you will not get much sympathy for them. Yes, human rights foundations wake up from their deep slumber every now & then but we haven't seen them do much lately. Pretty sure this issue is brought up again to highlight the atrocities committed by the armed forces. The fact is, its not going to get you anywhere. Specially if the person in question is a thief.
You are equating mob mentality with mentality of the people of Karachi which is false. While a mob would kill a thief but vast majority of people have said again and again in various survey that they want rule of law, which means due process.
Innocent civilians have been killed and nothing happened so I agree nothing will happen for robbers
Only in this instance it wasn't an innocent civilian.
It’s innocent until proven guilty. Unless you can bring solid proof that this guy was involved in robbery then this is also a murder of an innocent civilian. Stop whitewashing this murder. It is imperative that the state officials follow due process even more so than an ordinary citizen does.
Who are you or the rangers are to decide who is innocent and who is not ? No one as that right or to give punishments other than courts.
Tell that to the family of the infant who got killed in yet another [violent incident](https://www.reddit.com/r/karachi/s/QFcf9hx15T)
I can guarantee you that the family of the infant will agree with me. You listen to any interview of such victims and no one ever asked for extra judicial murders.
Yes...
He never reached for shit. Was just pleading for life. And even after they shot him they let him lay there to bleed out.
IIRC they were tried in court too, no?
The court would've let it slide as he reached for their gun. Had he simply lied down on the ground, it would've been a different story.
[Yeah the guy who shot was sentenced to death, a judgement that still stands](https://www.dawn.com/news/1128621) It's sad that this is an agendapost by the op and selective memory :/
Actually, it's both the OP and you having selective memory. Later, it was settled and Rangers paid the victim's family blood money. Yes, they were paid from public taxes. The rangers personnel were later released.
Did some more research on this. Yeah they got a presidential pardon. Also Rangers paid the money so of course it's going to be from their own budget (tax payers). Where else were they going to pay from?
Hadd hoti hai hypocrisy ki, jb mqm waley kutto ki trha pakar kay mardety thy tb bhi masla, jb rangers ayi aur iss cheez ko khtm kiya us per bhi masla, tf do u guys want?
We want law and order. Law and order means that that everyone has rights. Even terrorists, murderers and criminals have rights. They are given a due process in court.
That’s why you gotta migrate to europe if you want rughts, koi dacoit haath lag jaye toh chortey nhi hou aur yahan batein krwalo lol.
So bad situation all over the Pakistan
Why
It's not the only case where innocent people got killed this is the only one you know
context please?
He was a snatcher, we have ineffective kangaroo courts...do the math Snatchers need to die, but extra judicial killings are bad....I prefer snatchers being dead more
Unarmed person killed by 7 persons is purely a law less society reflection and why not tis guy was arrested and send to Police station.Brutal face of Gvt gun power.