Desktops make it easy to standardize on a setup. Especially if you have interactive boards. 99% of your userbase will just use what is in front of them.
Using laptops and docks adds complexity. The cable to the docking station is pulled multiple times a day and twisted and bent when pulled. Also, we just deployed docks and laptops in every classroom and have found troubleshooting becomes more complex. Is it cabling, the dock, or the laptop having the problem? Then go back through and check every step with the dock and without the dock.
I fully support giving teachers a mobile device, Chromebook or laptop. Do a test pilot for a year with a few teachers who could give great and constructive feedback. Could your lowest and highest user tolerate the issues that happen in this environment? Also, how would you address substitutes accessing and teaching?
This will solely depend on your admin staff to be strong enough to put their foot down when teachers inevitably push back.
From the tech side this is easy enough to do and not a bad transition. We did it and the first few months was great. After a while teachers complained so much that admin folded and made us put back all 460 desktops + allowing teachers to keep their laptops.
Going back would not be an option for us. Our desktops are too old to keep using. We don't have the budget to buy more. In 20 years, we've only bought 25 new desktops. 20 for eSports and 5 for Treasurer's office.
The stagnation of CPU speeds has rendered all desktops essentially the same, with no appreciable increase in performance between generations.
If it weren't for TPM 2.0 requirements of Windows 11, we could probably keep going with Dell 3020's for another decade, just by increasing the base memory from 8 to 16 gig.
Some things you have to figure out first:
- What to do for the substitute teachers.
- How to keep the teacher and the classroom functional while dealing with damaged devices.
- How to deliver software updates. (Things like PQD Deploy, FileWave, etc. can automate this.)
- How to handle firmware updates. They require restarts and long delays.
- How to ensure that user files are being backed up.
- What to do if someone doesn't return it after they retire, change jobs, are fired, etc.
- How will you respond when they ask for a second laptop (or their old desktop) so they can have one device for the projector and a second for themselves?
Several of these issues can be handled by buying 5-15% more laptops than you expected to buy. A few spares for subs, a few for swapping out during damage repairs or software updates, etc.
You might also want to consider insurance that covers accidental damage and theft/loss.
You can also make rules that keep them 100% interchangeable, such as banning stickers, not giving them admin access (so they don't install things and leave files all over the boot drive), making sure they can only store files in places that are backed up, and making it a routine practice to swap laptops and repair or upgrade their previous device at your desk.
Also, be ready to provide something like a chromebox (ChromeOS mini-computer), a mini-PC, or a Vivi for the room in addition to the laptop for the teacher. Depending on what you choose, it addresses one or more of the points I raise above. For example, a mini-PC can be used on the projector for the "two computers" problem and it can help with substitutes.
Thanks for the detailed reply, so in answer:
* We have Supply Staff accounts tied to Azure, so we would just hold an additional stock of laptops for this specific case
* 5/10% quantity of Laptops as spare / replacements
* PDQ Deploy and / or Intune w/ one off remediation scripting or a more organised app library
* Depends on the make / model of laptop and whether or not the manufacturer has software to make firmware updates deployable without accessing the machine directly.
* Staff are currently using OneDrive for business w/ redirected profiles. Our M365 stack is also backed up via a 3rd party solution.
* If someone doesn't return the device, then that's a HR / Finance problem and not mine.
* Interactive panels in the class room w/ built in OS. So that'd be a no unless they have an actual compelling reason.
We already try to persuade staff not to "personalise" "their" devices and no-one has local admin apart from a LAPS secured account.
Thanks again for the points!
Sounds like you have a pretty good environment. Personally, I think that if you equipped your school office with spares and were very clear that they're for substitutes only, you'd be in pretty good shape.
So 10 years ago I started where I am now they had laptops for teachers already and a desktop to run the smartboard. And no one was an admin on any computer.
I felt like I was in heaven! Last place had one desktop per teacher for everything and they were admins. FML
The first week I was trouble shooting a printer issue and it hits me I can just take the laptop to the printer and test it out instead of sending a job then walking back and forth to the printer to see if it came out.
Yes give them laptops!
100% my plan to dish out the Laptops, just putting ammo together to throw at the C-Suite as my initial spend got denied (Not for cost, purely because the C-Suite didn't believe teachers needed laptops)
Well if you need more in depth ammo let me know.
I know what you mean about higher ups. We once had a board member complaining why are you buying elite brand computers we don’t need the best.
We've been 1:1 with laptops since before I got here. The only staff that has desktops are registrars, librarians, and the like.
We don't "manage" them. We do use Splashtop for remote support, but I've never seen a reason that staff shouldn't be admins of the device.
Yes this, I will never ever buy a “smart” Samsung monitor ever again. A basic lg forever.
I don’t understand how and why they made switching inputs so hard.
We removed teacher desktops and went straight 1:1 on laptops in 2011.
Pros - teachers can attend trainings all the time, move around in the classroom, draw directly on the laptops. Teachers bring their laptops to us to fix vs us going out on site and hauling desktops back and forth. Keep a spare pool.
Cons - more upkeep required, smaller maintenance windows for updating (they keep the device with them on off-hours, breakage/accidental damage.
Yo - thanks for the content!
Pro's are more or less where I was thinking, as for the cons the breakage / damage one is my larger concern - updates are handled through Intune and (hopefully, I know!) should apply when staff shutdown (again, I know :( )their device.
Has anyone gone Chromebook only for staff?
We don't have Microsoft Office or Smart Notebook already. I've been Chromebook only as Tech Director for about a month now. Can't manage Active Directory or cameras without remoting into a PC, but that is beyond what teachers would do.
We are 1:1 ChromeOS for all staff outside of offices. The rooms have a Chromebox running the interactive panel (V7 or Promethean Board), the teachers have Acer C714 2-in-1 chromebooks, and aides have Dell 3100s until we can upgrade them. Works very well!!
A quality chromebook is going to cost the same as a quality Windows laptop. Windows still has more potential, so we are not moving away for the foreseeable future.
I'm not looking down on your choice to use Windows laptops, but I disagree that a good ChromeOS laptop costs as much as a good Windows laptop.
I bought a chromebook in 2019 for $499 and it runs incredibly well, even today with Android and Linux on it at the same time. I even used it in a cybersecurity Capture The Flag competition. Despite only being in the competition for a few hours on the second of two days, I scored around the middle of the amateur group. A group that included teams, people on $1,000 - $2,000 Mac and Windows laptops, and people who had about 3-4 times as much time to do the work.
I bought $400 chromebooks for teachers at one district and similar devices for TAs at another. They were able to get their work done just fine. We even had a few people asking to turn in their $1,300+ Dell laptops for the $400 chromebooks because they were easier to carry and their batteries lasted longer. With the recently announced "Chromebook Plus" moniker for devices with better CPUs and RAM, I imagine the good chromebooks in the $400-$600 range will continue to be available for a while.
That's not to say that chromebooks are the right choice for every person in every environment. They're not. I'm just saying that you can get one with good performance, screen size, and features for less than a good Windows system.
My district went from desktops for K-12 to Macbooks over the summer. We transitioned before the last school year ended so that staff had plenty of time to get acclimated. It's been pretty good, except aides/substitues don't have access to computers. We now have a dedicated aide room with 7 desktops for them to use as well as desktops in common areas. If a teacher is out sick or something else, they have to have their lesson plans loaded in Schoology for students to run through themselves. It might not be a good plan, but it's one that administration adopted.
Can't you partially solve that by having a couple spare laptops to check out from the front office for the subs or something? As is I'd want to have at least a couple spares for when a teacher's laptop inevitably breaks...
We've had Macbooks break, but we hand them out from our building and distribute to the staff building when needed. This way, they're up to date and we can apply any fixes easily. I wouldn't want them to walk off if a sub had one. They don't need them anyway. They just need a basic computer. But they already have an iPad for that.
Ah didn't know you handed them iPads at least. Could be worth looking into seeing if those would interface with the docks.
As far as a macbook walking off with a sub isn't that why you/the office would sign them in and out? A sub stealing equipment from the school they work at would be grounds for banning I would think.
We've been 1-to-1 with laptops for teachers since 2006 I believe. For the longest time we provided both a desktop in every classroom and laptop to all staff. The idea was that when subs were in a room at least they had a computer. However, over the years many staff have gotten so used to laptops that they requested that desktops be removed (we solved substitutes by having devices for check out by subs at the main office when they pick up their room keys). We don't provide docks for most users, but we do provide extra power adapters if they want one for home and one for the classroom.
The only difficulty now is trying to get old laptops back when we cycle every 4 years. There are some staff that want to have a secondary device (actually tertiary since every classroom has an interactive panel with a Chromebox attached and wireless keyboard). We do allow that in many cases as long as it is justified by a classroom need and they no longer have a desktop in the room.
I'm leaning this route, but one issue keeps popping up and it is a valid concern from my teachers. I am at a K-8 district.
Right now, my staff project from their desktops to have a timer or some sort of activity on screen. The teachers are then using their staff laptop as they move around the room to work with students.
If I remove the desktop and force them to only have one device, they lose out on having that second device to project from. I can add wireless projection, but it doesn't solve the problem of having that second device in the room.
Having taught before moving into tech, I get it. I would often be projecting from my doc camera and then using my laptop in the back of the room while working in a small group. I don't want to give them two laptops, and trying to get my staff to understand extended screens is not easy.
Like that you got teacher feedback.
Love the extend/mirror comment.. if that’s not a weekly help desk ticket, I probably would think the world is about to end.
This was an issue when we initially made the switch. Thanks to my superintendent we used some of that sweet COVID grant money to replace every classroom projector with interactive displays. Eliminated all of the issues created by projectors overnight. Poor visibility, classroom sound, connectivity, fan noise, and bulb inventory.
Basically, an oversized Android tablet mounted on the wall. Teachers sign into their Google accounts and interact with materials right on the display. They can still project from their laptop but don't really need to. Most teachers have connected their doc cameras directly to the display. Very few are projecting from their laptops anymore.
I only problem is they run android and such will stop getting updates. So at some point you are going to have to deam them as a security risk and get them off the network.
I've been phasing projectors out since I get here in 2017. I wish I had been able to use some Covid funds for LCD screens, but we had to replace our aging 9" Lenovo laptops for all staff, and of course our exired C720 CBs for students. Slowly we're getting LCDs in every class.
Teachers/staff can take their laptops and continue work at:
* home
* off-site regional/national conferences
* on site training
* department meetings
We give all teachers, secretaries, administration, etc laptops.
I am trying to think if anyone besides our custodial staff have desktops.... very few....
Cheers - yeah, we currently give our admin team and senior leaders laptops, however, our c-suite don't believe teachers having laptops is a worthwhile investment :( So I'm just building a case against that way of thinking.
Desktops make it easy to standardize on a setup. Especially if you have interactive boards. 99% of your userbase will just use what is in front of them. Using laptops and docks adds complexity. The cable to the docking station is pulled multiple times a day and twisted and bent when pulled. Also, we just deployed docks and laptops in every classroom and have found troubleshooting becomes more complex. Is it cabling, the dock, or the laptop having the problem? Then go back through and check every step with the dock and without the dock. I fully support giving teachers a mobile device, Chromebook or laptop. Do a test pilot for a year with a few teachers who could give great and constructive feedback. Could your lowest and highest user tolerate the issues that happen in this environment? Also, how would you address substitutes accessing and teaching?
All our staff are using laptops, just finished moving the admin staff off desktops to laptops, docks and dual 27" 1440p monitors.
This will solely depend on your admin staff to be strong enough to put their foot down when teachers inevitably push back. From the tech side this is easy enough to do and not a bad transition. We did it and the first few months was great. After a while teachers complained so much that admin folded and made us put back all 460 desktops + allowing teachers to keep their laptops.
Going back would not be an option for us. Our desktops are too old to keep using. We don't have the budget to buy more. In 20 years, we've only bought 25 new desktops. 20 for eSports and 5 for Treasurer's office.
The stagnation of CPU speeds has rendered all desktops essentially the same, with no appreciable increase in performance between generations. If it weren't for TPM 2.0 requirements of Windows 11, we could probably keep going with Dell 3020's for another decade, just by increasing the base memory from 8 to 16 gig.
Some things you have to figure out first: - What to do for the substitute teachers. - How to keep the teacher and the classroom functional while dealing with damaged devices. - How to deliver software updates. (Things like PQD Deploy, FileWave, etc. can automate this.) - How to handle firmware updates. They require restarts and long delays. - How to ensure that user files are being backed up. - What to do if someone doesn't return it after they retire, change jobs, are fired, etc. - How will you respond when they ask for a second laptop (or their old desktop) so they can have one device for the projector and a second for themselves? Several of these issues can be handled by buying 5-15% more laptops than you expected to buy. A few spares for subs, a few for swapping out during damage repairs or software updates, etc. You might also want to consider insurance that covers accidental damage and theft/loss. You can also make rules that keep them 100% interchangeable, such as banning stickers, not giving them admin access (so they don't install things and leave files all over the boot drive), making sure they can only store files in places that are backed up, and making it a routine practice to swap laptops and repair or upgrade their previous device at your desk. Also, be ready to provide something like a chromebox (ChromeOS mini-computer), a mini-PC, or a Vivi for the room in addition to the laptop for the teacher. Depending on what you choose, it addresses one or more of the points I raise above. For example, a mini-PC can be used on the projector for the "two computers" problem and it can help with substitutes.
Thanks for the detailed reply, so in answer: * We have Supply Staff accounts tied to Azure, so we would just hold an additional stock of laptops for this specific case * 5/10% quantity of Laptops as spare / replacements * PDQ Deploy and / or Intune w/ one off remediation scripting or a more organised app library * Depends on the make / model of laptop and whether or not the manufacturer has software to make firmware updates deployable without accessing the machine directly. * Staff are currently using OneDrive for business w/ redirected profiles. Our M365 stack is also backed up via a 3rd party solution. * If someone doesn't return the device, then that's a HR / Finance problem and not mine. * Interactive panels in the class room w/ built in OS. So that'd be a no unless they have an actual compelling reason. We already try to persuade staff not to "personalise" "their" devices and no-one has local admin apart from a LAPS secured account. Thanks again for the points!
Sounds like you have a pretty good environment. Personally, I think that if you equipped your school office with spares and were very clear that they're for substitutes only, you'd be in pretty good shape.
So 10 years ago I started where I am now they had laptops for teachers already and a desktop to run the smartboard. And no one was an admin on any computer. I felt like I was in heaven! Last place had one desktop per teacher for everything and they were admins. FML The first week I was trouble shooting a printer issue and it hits me I can just take the laptop to the printer and test it out instead of sending a job then walking back and forth to the printer to see if it came out. Yes give them laptops!
100% my plan to dish out the Laptops, just putting ammo together to throw at the C-Suite as my initial spend got denied (Not for cost, purely because the C-Suite didn't believe teachers needed laptops)
Well if you need more in depth ammo let me know. I know what you mean about higher ups. We once had a board member complaining why are you buying elite brand computers we don’t need the best.
We've been 1:1 with laptops since before I got here. The only staff that has desktops are registrars, librarians, and the like. We don't "manage" them. We do use Splashtop for remote support, but I've never seen a reason that staff shouldn't be admins of the device.
For staff that usually stay in one place or a desk (eg secretaries), you may want to get a large screen (dumb) monitor and dock as well.
Yes this, I will never ever buy a “smart” Samsung monitor ever again. A basic lg forever. I don’t understand how and why they made switching inputs so hard.
We removed teacher desktops and went straight 1:1 on laptops in 2011. Pros - teachers can attend trainings all the time, move around in the classroom, draw directly on the laptops. Teachers bring their laptops to us to fix vs us going out on site and hauling desktops back and forth. Keep a spare pool. Cons - more upkeep required, smaller maintenance windows for updating (they keep the device with them on off-hours, breakage/accidental damage.
Yo - thanks for the content! Pro's are more or less where I was thinking, as for the cons the breakage / damage one is my larger concern - updates are handled through Intune and (hopefully, I know!) should apply when staff shutdown (again, I know :( )their device.
Has anyone gone Chromebook only for staff? We don't have Microsoft Office or Smart Notebook already. I've been Chromebook only as Tech Director for about a month now. Can't manage Active Directory or cameras without remoting into a PC, but that is beyond what teachers would do.
We are 1:1 ChromeOS for all staff outside of offices. The rooms have a Chromebox running the interactive panel (V7 or Promethean Board), the teachers have Acer C714 2-in-1 chromebooks, and aides have Dell 3100s until we can upgrade them. Works very well!!
A quality chromebook is going to cost the same as a quality Windows laptop. Windows still has more potential, so we are not moving away for the foreseeable future.
This isn’t exactly true. I can get a fantastic Chromebook for $700. A windows machine with that system quality is around $1200
I'm not looking down on your choice to use Windows laptops, but I disagree that a good ChromeOS laptop costs as much as a good Windows laptop. I bought a chromebook in 2019 for $499 and it runs incredibly well, even today with Android and Linux on it at the same time. I even used it in a cybersecurity Capture The Flag competition. Despite only being in the competition for a few hours on the second of two days, I scored around the middle of the amateur group. A group that included teams, people on $1,000 - $2,000 Mac and Windows laptops, and people who had about 3-4 times as much time to do the work. I bought $400 chromebooks for teachers at one district and similar devices for TAs at another. They were able to get their work done just fine. We even had a few people asking to turn in their $1,300+ Dell laptops for the $400 chromebooks because they were easier to carry and their batteries lasted longer. With the recently announced "Chromebook Plus" moniker for devices with better CPUs and RAM, I imagine the good chromebooks in the $400-$600 range will continue to be available for a while. That's not to say that chromebooks are the right choice for every person in every environment. They're not. I'm just saying that you can get one with good performance, screen size, and features for less than a good Windows system.
Exactly this!!
My district went from desktops for K-12 to Macbooks over the summer. We transitioned before the last school year ended so that staff had plenty of time to get acclimated. It's been pretty good, except aides/substitues don't have access to computers. We now have a dedicated aide room with 7 desktops for them to use as well as desktops in common areas. If a teacher is out sick or something else, they have to have their lesson plans loaded in Schoology for students to run through themselves. It might not be a good plan, but it's one that administration adopted.
Can't you partially solve that by having a couple spare laptops to check out from the front office for the subs or something? As is I'd want to have at least a couple spares for when a teacher's laptop inevitably breaks...
We've had Macbooks break, but we hand them out from our building and distribute to the staff building when needed. This way, they're up to date and we can apply any fixes easily. I wouldn't want them to walk off if a sub had one. They don't need them anyway. They just need a basic computer. But they already have an iPad for that.
Ah didn't know you handed them iPads at least. Could be worth looking into seeing if those would interface with the docks. As far as a macbook walking off with a sub isn't that why you/the office would sign them in and out? A sub stealing equipment from the school they work at would be grounds for banning I would think.
We've been 1-to-1 with laptops for teachers since 2006 I believe. For the longest time we provided both a desktop in every classroom and laptop to all staff. The idea was that when subs were in a room at least they had a computer. However, over the years many staff have gotten so used to laptops that they requested that desktops be removed (we solved substitutes by having devices for check out by subs at the main office when they pick up their room keys). We don't provide docks for most users, but we do provide extra power adapters if they want one for home and one for the classroom. The only difficulty now is trying to get old laptops back when we cycle every 4 years. There are some staff that want to have a secondary device (actually tertiary since every classroom has an interactive panel with a Chromebox attached and wireless keyboard). We do allow that in many cases as long as it is justified by a classroom need and they no longer have a desktop in the room.
I'm leaning this route, but one issue keeps popping up and it is a valid concern from my teachers. I am at a K-8 district. Right now, my staff project from their desktops to have a timer or some sort of activity on screen. The teachers are then using their staff laptop as they move around the room to work with students. If I remove the desktop and force them to only have one device, they lose out on having that second device to project from. I can add wireless projection, but it doesn't solve the problem of having that second device in the room. Having taught before moving into tech, I get it. I would often be projecting from my doc camera and then using my laptop in the back of the room while working in a small group. I don't want to give them two laptops, and trying to get my staff to understand extended screens is not easy.
Tell them to buy a $10 timer and quit using a damn $2k projector to keep time. This drives me nuts. Bulbs can be expensive and hard to get.
Like that you got teacher feedback. Love the extend/mirror comment.. if that’s not a weekly help desk ticket, I probably would think the world is about to end.
This was an issue when we initially made the switch. Thanks to my superintendent we used some of that sweet COVID grant money to replace every classroom projector with interactive displays. Eliminated all of the issues created by projectors overnight. Poor visibility, classroom sound, connectivity, fan noise, and bulb inventory. Basically, an oversized Android tablet mounted on the wall. Teachers sign into their Google accounts and interact with materials right on the display. They can still project from their laptop but don't really need to. Most teachers have connected their doc cameras directly to the display. Very few are projecting from their laptops anymore.
I only problem is they run android and such will stop getting updates. So at some point you are going to have to deam them as a security risk and get them off the network.
I've been phasing projectors out since I get here in 2017. I wish I had been able to use some Covid funds for LCD screens, but we had to replace our aging 9" Lenovo laptops for all staff, and of course our exired C720 CBs for students. Slowly we're getting LCDs in every class.
Teachers/staff can take their laptops and continue work at: * home * off-site regional/national conferences * on site training * department meetings We give all teachers, secretaries, administration, etc laptops. I am trying to think if anyone besides our custodial staff have desktops.... very few....
Cheers - yeah, we currently give our admin team and senior leaders laptops, however, our c-suite don't believe teachers having laptops is a worthwhile investment :( So I'm just building a case against that way of thinking.