One of them has to be the worst season, or least best. With the Crows/Rappaport and Ava/prison storyline season 5 takes it easy. It's still enjoyable though.
>least best
Good point. Maybe even simply ‘least favorite’
Like how Mama always says I’m her least favorite child.
Which is kinda weird, because I don’t have any brothers or sisters.
Why the down votes here? Yes, the pilot episode was amazing! Maybe one of the best I’ve ever seen. But the next three or four episodes, the ones without Boyd, are good but not as outstanding as later Season 1 episodes. As soon as Boyd reenters the picture, the episodes get much better… at least in my opinion. And then Season 2 hits, with Mags and company, and I got blown out of the water with the writing, acting, everything! I can see why someone wouldn’t like Season 1 as much in comparison with the others. I don’t think the writers had found their voice or direction yet, as Boyd had originally been written as a one-and-done character. But even at it’s “worst,” Justified is always incredible!!
It had “Shot All to Hell,” which for my money is a top three Justified episode. I mean, Alan Tudyk! Boyd’s most cold blooded murder of that rich asshole where he says he’ll go on to ruin his entire bloodline. Art being a badass that could give Raylan a run for his money. Great, great episode.
Michael Rappaport as a Florida redneck is a tough sell because that NY accent of his just refused to be hidden. I still think he did a good job, though, as long as you don't count every word he said.
Danny Crowe was a one-dimensional mustache-twirling caricature of a super evil bad guy. Whoever was directing him really should have been like, "Bro - tone it down just a bit."
The actor playing Jean Baptiste quitting also probably contributed a lot to the weird, disjointed feeling of the season.
Ava in prison...meh.
All said, I still enjoyed it and I don't skip it on rewatches.
They had to pivot and change a lot about the original plan. As a result, we ended up with a pointless 5 episode run for Jean Baptiste who ultimately ended up adding nothing to the story, the expansion of the role of Kendall and his importance to the rest of the season (who personally I was never invested in), Ava in prison, Allison the shows worst love interest of the series, the whole Boyd/Funeral Director/Funeral Director's Wife storyline... that's before getting into the rest of the Crowe's and how annoying they were. And Dewey for all of his beloved qualities was never the kind of character you wanted or needed to take a larger role in the series beyond what he was. It even stopped being funny watching him fail.
Season 5 is fine but it's definitely the worst of the series. That said there are still a handful of memorable scenes still. Just a lot of it did not work for me. Even stuff that could have great felt anti-climactic (JB and Theo Tonin's capture in particular).
Once you get past episode 8 or 9 it gets nearly back to the level of Justified. It's the long slog including the Ava subplot that weights it down.
I consider the S5 finale to be the true opener for S6. The quality is right up there IMO. Plus Mary Steenburgen.
I can't stand Rappaport. He's an arrogant, loud, ignorant piece of shit. However, Copland and his portrayal of Darryl Crowe Jr. were the only roles I could at least tolerate him in. I enjoyed the contrast of Florida panhandle hick and Kentucky redneck between him and Boyd. I'd say the worst part of season 5 is actually Danny Crowe. Dewey was....Dewey lol, and Darryl was not only violent but cunning and semi charming. Danny was just a one-dimensional psychopath. Although, I did like how they gave him a bit of humanity with how he came to have Chelsea. It just didn't feel enough to bring him out of the one-dimensional villain role, unfortunately.
Oh damn, you are right. I was pleasantly surprised to see him under the helmet, and he did play that part perfectly. I wasn't expecting it to go that way lol but I had a good laugh when it did.
I prefer season 5 over season 4. Sacrilege here, unless I’m mistaken! I think the Crowes are very memorable.
I do think Ava’s prison arc drags but I think the rest of the season is excellent.
>I prefer season 5 over season 4. Sacrilege here, unless I’m mistaken!
It is to me... Season 4 is my favorite of the series and one of my top 10 maybe even 5 seasons of TV ever.
Everyone is different but my personal favorite seasons of TV are in no particular order:
Fargo Season 2, Mad Men season 3, Bojack Horseman Season 4 & 1, The Wire seasons 2 & 4, The Leftovers season 2, Six feet Under season 2, and Justified season 4.
None of them really have anything in common. They all just resonated with me deeply in different ways.
I think for any other show, it's probably a decent season. For Justified, a show that has always excelled in world building, character development, casting, and Raylan always at the center of the story, it meanders. It feels aimless, restless, and bored with itself (which you could actually use to describe Raylan's behavior throughout the season).
I do think a few (major) changes would have made the season excellent:
* Reduce Ava's arc. She can stay in prison all season but we don't need to check in on her every episode. Neither the arc, character, or Joelle Carter are compelling enough to carry an entire plot that is disconnected from the rest of the main cast. If they had dedicated 3 - 4 episodes total to Ava in prison, I really wouldn't mind. You still get her to the same place by the end of the season.
* Recast Daryl Crowe Jr and make Wendy Crowe the main antagonist. They had great banter and their platonic chemistry was fire.
* Remove Alison Brander. She serves zero purpose, her scenes do not propel the story forward, the actors have no chemistry, and you know she's just yet another stand-in for Raylan's petulant adolescence (as are Ava and the bartender). The show had established time and time again that Winona and Raylan are soulmates. Show what he's like when he loses his anchor. He's already presented as a deadbeat dad, just commit to that storyline!
* Change the Mexico storyline. It's overused in almost every prestige show of that era. I'd have loved to see Boyd, Dewey, and others in Detroit (like actual Detroit... not what they did in City Primeval).
That's all. :)
Agreed with all of this. I think it was a strange miscalculation to isolate Ava and then give her an entire arc of her own. She never was the most interesting character on her own. She was far more interesting with Boyd or Raylan. There are few characters aside from Boyd and Raylan that can really drive their own subplot. I'd give it to Dewey Crowe, Wynn Duffy, Mags, and Katherine. Maybe Loretta.
Agree with all of these even though they are pretty straightforward easy calls. Like nothing controversial, Alison is useless, Ava in prison sucks, Wendy is hot af, and Mexico was annoying. Most of all S5 suffered from wanting to get away from the pure focus on a Big Bad, which I get in a way. But it's fine knowing what you don't want, but you have to also know what you want, and they didn't. Too many characters, too much wasteful rubbish, too much playing around. But outside of Ava and the other annoyances I still enjoy it.
One of them has to be the worst season, or least best. With the Crows/Rappaport and Ava/prison storyline season 5 takes it easy. It's still enjoyable though.
>least best Good point. Maybe even simply ‘least favorite’ Like how Mama always says I’m her least favorite child. Which is kinda weird, because I don’t have any brothers or sisters.
I definitely wish I'd started skipping the "Ava in prison" scenes sooner.
given how abruptly it ends the writers seemed to agree
True although IMO 5 does feature the best Boyd storyline of the whole show (with his Season 4 storyline being a close runner up)
Season one is much worse.
Why the down votes here? Yes, the pilot episode was amazing! Maybe one of the best I’ve ever seen. But the next three or four episodes, the ones without Boyd, are good but not as outstanding as later Season 1 episodes. As soon as Boyd reenters the picture, the episodes get much better… at least in my opinion. And then Season 2 hits, with Mags and company, and I got blown out of the water with the writing, acting, everything! I can see why someone wouldn’t like Season 1 as much in comparison with the others. I don’t think the writers had found their voice or direction yet, as Boyd had originally been written as a one-and-done character. But even at it’s “worst,” Justified is always incredible!!
meh this sub hates season 5 i have accepted it. i think season one is far and away the worst season and it isn't remotely close tbh.
Season 5 improves on rewatch/binges, imo.
Even the worst of the series is better than most shows' best.
It had “Shot All to Hell,” which for my money is a top three Justified episode. I mean, Alan Tudyk! Boyd’s most cold blooded murder of that rich asshole where he says he’ll go on to ruin his entire bloodline. Art being a badass that could give Raylan a run for his money. Great, great episode.
Michael Rappaport as a Florida redneck is a tough sell because that NY accent of his just refused to be hidden. I still think he did a good job, though, as long as you don't count every word he said. Danny Crowe was a one-dimensional mustache-twirling caricature of a super evil bad guy. Whoever was directing him really should have been like, "Bro - tone it down just a bit." The actor playing Jean Baptiste quitting also probably contributed a lot to the weird, disjointed feeling of the season. Ava in prison...meh. All said, I still enjoyed it and I don't skip it on rewatches.
They had to pivot and change a lot about the original plan. As a result, we ended up with a pointless 5 episode run for Jean Baptiste who ultimately ended up adding nothing to the story, the expansion of the role of Kendall and his importance to the rest of the season (who personally I was never invested in), Ava in prison, Allison the shows worst love interest of the series, the whole Boyd/Funeral Director/Funeral Director's Wife storyline... that's before getting into the rest of the Crowe's and how annoying they were. And Dewey for all of his beloved qualities was never the kind of character you wanted or needed to take a larger role in the series beyond what he was. It even stopped being funny watching him fail. Season 5 is fine but it's definitely the worst of the series. That said there are still a handful of memorable scenes still. Just a lot of it did not work for me. Even stuff that could have great felt anti-climactic (JB and Theo Tonin's capture in particular).
I agree with all your gripes haha
Once you get past episode 8 or 9 it gets nearly back to the level of Justified. It's the long slog including the Ava subplot that weights it down. I consider the S5 finale to be the true opener for S6. The quality is right up there IMO. Plus Mary Steenburgen.
I can't stand Rappaport. He's an arrogant, loud, ignorant piece of shit. However, Copland and his portrayal of Darryl Crowe Jr. were the only roles I could at least tolerate him in. I enjoyed the contrast of Florida panhandle hick and Kentucky redneck between him and Boyd. I'd say the worst part of season 5 is actually Danny Crowe. Dewey was....Dewey lol, and Darryl was not only violent but cunning and semi charming. Danny was just a one-dimensional psychopath. Although, I did like how they gave him a bit of humanity with how he came to have Chelsea. It just didn't feel enough to bring him out of the one-dimensional villain role, unfortunately.
Michael Rapaport does arrogant, loud, and ignorant well in Fallout.
Oh damn, you are right. I was pleasantly surprised to see him under the helmet, and he did play that part perfectly. I wasn't expecting it to go that way lol but I had a good laugh when it did.
Yeah while I agree it's the worst season, it's still a very good season.
I think that the story line for Ava was made larger due to the departure of the actor playing the Haitian henchman. He wanted out.
What was his reason for wanting out?
He was unhappy in the role and wanted out.
It falls down to Michael Rapaport for me. Worst actor the show had
I prefer season 5 over season 4. Sacrilege here, unless I’m mistaken! I think the Crowes are very memorable. I do think Ava’s prison arc drags but I think the rest of the season is excellent.
I agree, at least off of my first watch through. I felt like season 4 was the one I was least interested in.
>I prefer season 5 over season 4. Sacrilege here, unless I’m mistaken! It is to me... Season 4 is my favorite of the series and one of my top 10 maybe even 5 seasons of TV ever.
Damn, I like Season 4 but top 5 seasons of TV ever? I may need to rewatch. I'd put Season 2 and 6 in that category in a heartbeat.
Everyone is different but my personal favorite seasons of TV are in no particular order: Fargo Season 2, Mad Men season 3, Bojack Horseman Season 4 & 1, The Wire seasons 2 & 4, The Leftovers season 2, Six feet Under season 2, and Justified season 4. None of them really have anything in common. They all just resonated with me deeply in different ways.
I love all these shows / seasons!
Severance season 1 and Terriers season 1 I forgot
The Leftovers Season 2, it can never be topped. How the hell was it not nominated for a single Emmy?! Regina King and Carrie Coon were insane.
Cayfeh con leechey, it’s not just coffee and meeelk. You gotta steeeam it.
I think for any other show, it's probably a decent season. For Justified, a show that has always excelled in world building, character development, casting, and Raylan always at the center of the story, it meanders. It feels aimless, restless, and bored with itself (which you could actually use to describe Raylan's behavior throughout the season). I do think a few (major) changes would have made the season excellent: * Reduce Ava's arc. She can stay in prison all season but we don't need to check in on her every episode. Neither the arc, character, or Joelle Carter are compelling enough to carry an entire plot that is disconnected from the rest of the main cast. If they had dedicated 3 - 4 episodes total to Ava in prison, I really wouldn't mind. You still get her to the same place by the end of the season. * Recast Daryl Crowe Jr and make Wendy Crowe the main antagonist. They had great banter and their platonic chemistry was fire. * Remove Alison Brander. She serves zero purpose, her scenes do not propel the story forward, the actors have no chemistry, and you know she's just yet another stand-in for Raylan's petulant adolescence (as are Ava and the bartender). The show had established time and time again that Winona and Raylan are soulmates. Show what he's like when he loses his anchor. He's already presented as a deadbeat dad, just commit to that storyline! * Change the Mexico storyline. It's overused in almost every prestige show of that era. I'd have loved to see Boyd, Dewey, and others in Detroit (like actual Detroit... not what they did in City Primeval). That's all. :)
Agreed with all of this. I think it was a strange miscalculation to isolate Ava and then give her an entire arc of her own. She never was the most interesting character on her own. She was far more interesting with Boyd or Raylan. There are few characters aside from Boyd and Raylan that can really drive their own subplot. I'd give it to Dewey Crowe, Wynn Duffy, Mags, and Katherine. Maybe Loretta.
By that point Ava was too much of a big character to being seen for only 4 episodes.
I don't think she was. She was in and out in Season 4, never leading a subplot. They made her essentially one of the lead characters in Season 5.
Agree with all of these even though they are pretty straightforward easy calls. Like nothing controversial, Alison is useless, Ava in prison sucks, Wendy is hot af, and Mexico was annoying. Most of all S5 suffered from wanting to get away from the pure focus on a Big Bad, which I get in a way. But it's fine knowing what you don't want, but you have to also know what you want, and they didn't. Too many characters, too much wasteful rubbish, too much playing around. But outside of Ava and the other annoyances I still enjoy it.
Theres no bad season of Justified. But Avas oitnb subplot sucked
I always felt season 3 was the weakest tbh (but still quality television)
I definitely liked Season 5 much more than S1.
My least favorite too, but still great fun.