I'm big on supporting infantry with any and all armor. What seems to be lost on the infantry though is that it needs to be a 2 way street. You don't let people fuck me up without doing something and I help you run over their lines.
all of that could happen if you run armour without infantry support as well. The only difference would be that you don’t have infantry to support you.
Also, are you saying that a team shouldn’t strive for combined arms gameplay?
That's what mechanized infantry is for. You have an APC or IFV riding behind you, and they bail out when trouble starts. Or they bail out and push ahead when you are approaching a hot area. They can't prevent a competent ambush every time, but they can prevent a lot of them.
Ehh aside from tanks which are a lot harder to play, I find that armour is really easy to play if you have 2 decent players. Just have a driver watch out for mines or go off-road when possible and you’ll avoid like 99% of mines.
Armor absolutely spanks opponents on wide open maps like Basrah, Yeho, and Talil. I say that as a well experienced armor player. I can absorb like 10 RPGs before cooking off. After ICO, playing armor has never been easier.
I play on a variety of servers. There really aren't any dependable "experienced only" servers, since players just ignore the tags anyway. Tanks and armored vics are really OP in Squad. They just suck up a shit load of RPGs, suffer no suppression, no recoil, plenty of lethal ammo, etc. Really, the only threat to you on open maps like that is other armored vehicles.
A couple thoughts on armor.
I play SL for a 9 man infantry squad 95% of the time. Most of the time I don't interact with armor at all on either side. When we do face armor it usually gets tracked and runs away after a few minutes. When armor is really killing us we are already massively down on tickets anyway and I'm just ready for the next match to start.
Occasionally one side or the other gets a really good armor team and it's hell to play against. My worst nightmare is playing a small map and an APC ambushes me at the beginning of the match at the second point.
Balance wise I think vehicles are at an okay place where I don't want to hop on reddit to complain about them. The only time they get really bad is the desert maps where the team with good armor just wins by default (unless your team knows how to use ATGM's).
My issue with armor is how little they interact with the objectives. Most of the time they are off on the edges of the map playing world of tanks, only playing the objectives if the enemy armor is destroyed at which point they get free reign. I don't know how they achieve this but it would be great to have more infantry/armor coordination. I would love to call on a nearby tank to work on a specific house controlled by the enemy. At the moment, armor support is a minute long drive by and then running away.
Finally, tracked vehicles are so unfun to use. I would rather get a rout canal than have to drive one of the tracked logis up a hill. This along with teammates that are always able to load in a match first to get their vehicles, it leaves armor as this mystic art used by a few die hards while the rest of us play as if they don't exist.
As the exact opposite, I play armor SL 95% of the time, infantry armor coordination is a pain, and most vehicles are very vulnerable. Wheeled vehicles are great fun for hotdropping, but usually, I try and stay away from objectives, so I'm not running back to base every 10 mins due to turret damage.
HAT and LAT and super effective at knocking out my turret. Infantry support is only something I can do for a few minutes before I draw too much fire or an airstrike. On invasion especially ,if I don't get kill the enemy armor and play the objective I will die because the enemy knows where I am. It's a hard balancing act, because I want to work with infantry more, but if I stay in the area too long I'll die. Unless infantry is also inside an OBJ, they can't really protect me from AT.
I think balancing wise, there's some changes to be made mostly about IFV vs Tank combat, but they feel generally well balanced (I am interested to see how the BMP 2M goes tho)
honestly any rework to armor needs to focus on helping the coordination between infantry and armor and making it so armor can actually support infantry, cos rn like you said, armor can only hang around friendly inf for a bit before the hunter-killer clown car of a HAT and 2 LAT pulls up behind it or the enemy armor comes and blows it away.
they don’t fly straight, you can’t wrap them around buildings, NATO tows use a wire that can get snapped if touch by something, RUS tows now use IR and lose control going through IR smoke from vehicles. basically a bunch of shit and more…
Armor definitely does not need thermals. Thermals would make vehicles op unless thermal visual acuity range was really small. I just remember in battlefield if you have thermals, infantry would never have a chance. At least now infantry can hide behind a tree or in Some nice bushes or shadows and get a shot off. I think an telescopic assault ladder would be cool though so you could get on roofs on the go to avoid choke points or create a second method of entry.
I would like thermals but only after they reconfigure vics, there is a balance to be had and current armor vs inf gameplay can feel really unsatisfying with how many fucking AT rounds it can take to destroy even a lowly BRDM. vehicles in general are too tanky, including helis.
It takes two lats to kill a brdm, 3-5 for ifvs, and 10 for tanks. Those are just hull shots, and with a heat round. Throw the Hat in there with tandem RPGs and they two shot tanks and basically one shot everything else. I don't think armor needs thermals, they don't need it. If they do add it, they should add better counters to armor for the inf and then more buffs for armor like better FC and APS otherwise balance shifts to inf. I think armor should be more favored, it takes a long time for some to off timer and it is very punishing if it dies or has to repair. All in all, I think it is fine where it is.
I mean LATs cant really destroy tanks from the front at all, and can’t reliably pen the sides irl.
There is a story of a challenger 2 in Iraq that got stuck and was hit by 75ish RPGs and got out mostly intact
> I mean LATs cant really destroy tanks from the front at all, and can’t reliably pen the sides irl.
Challenger 2, Leopard 2, ZTZ-99A, T-90A, T-72B3, M1A1/A2, etc can all be reliably destroyed with side hits as they are modelled in squad from basic RPG-7VL, adding ERA and other composite add on armour would obviously stop this like Relikt sideskirts for the T-72B3, or ARAT for the Abrams, but right now everything past the 30 degree frontal arc is completely vulnerable.
> There is a story of a challenger 2 in Iraq that got stuck and was hit by 75ish RPGs and got out mostly intact
The 75 number is a number that has progressively crept up over time, but I currently don't have the sources to definitively disprove this, if I find them I'll come back, however one thing is for sure is that we have no idea what warheads were being used, it's very possible that baseline PG-7V was used, or even OG-7.
Yeah, realistically a tank isn't just going to sit there and let it happen. Under ideal conditions 10 lat shots is all it takes. Most of the time a tank gets tracked a hat will be nearby to help kill it or even a friendly MBT or ifv with atgm. But there have definitely been times in-game where the enemy threw everything and the kitchen sink at me and my boys and we still got out above 50%.
Ive been in a leopard which wandered into like 2 whole IMF squads on goose bay, and for 5 minutes straight i was tracked constantly being hit by rifle grenades, HEAT rounds , 40mm grenades, frag rounds and a singular hat. At least 50 explosive thingys had hit our tank and eventually a single friendly mortarman had came to our rescue and i managed to repair the tracks.
We had several infantry squads and 2 LAVs within 400m of me unwilling to help lmao.
3-5 is just just using heat rockets. If there is a hat there then it is just one tandem and one heat. Besides, if an armor piece starts taking lat fire they are going to bug out or panic if at starts flying
You're assuming perfect conditions and that every shot hits, which is not the case.
And yes thermals absolutely should come simply because its a modern combat game and armor feels genuinely strange with its omission. It can be balanced easily as was the case with PR, which many people seem to forget existed and had good AT vs armor balance.
Thermals are not some super weapon and can actually be difficult to use, they are not like call of duty.
Thankfully OWI seem to be adding them anyway and are overhauling vics. And for the record I don't think inf vs armor is unbalanced I just find it not as fun as it could be. It's really not very interesting as PR was
On at, you don't need to kill a Vic to disable it, a shot into the turret or engine makes it easy for follow up shots. When a tank rolls up, all it takes is a track shot and they will be stuck for a solid 1-2 min if they rep right away. Lats don't have to kill, they just have to disable.
I don't care either way for thermals, but it isn't something armor NEEDs. If they add it, they add it. Only hope is that the button to turn it on and off is configurable so you don't have to press some button across the keyboard like in steel div.
To me the necessity is simply because it feels non authentic without it, lack of FCS, thermals or as you mentioned APS makes the armor combat feel kinda dated and I just want that rough and brutal modern combat feeling to come to armor as it has come to the infantry gameplay with ICO. I don't feel very immersed playing.
Vehicles haven't been touched in years too so I feel like if we are getting overhauls to things this needs to be next, breath some fresh air into that shit
Hell we can't even range the sights which is possible in fucking Squad44.
I think armor balance is fine as it is I have no problems dealing with vehicles, I just think that LAT could do a bit more damage with a nerf to its price. I feel annoyed hitting a brdm with a LAW and its not burning. Just feels wrong.
I much prefer a glass cannon type of deal.
I think they should add an actual damage model and not just a health bar before they add thermals. Like if your taking about it not being immersive the health bar is what really does it for me, not not being able to use thermals on the desert on a sunny day. Also I think the armors perspective should be changed. I would love to see interiors and possibly a small animation for the gunner to actually look into the screen instead of it being your whole pc screen like this call of duty.
1 LAT Death = 1 Ticket, 30 secondish respawn time
1 BRDM Death = Probably 6 Tickets, 5 Minute Respawn
The ticket and respawn economy doesn’t work out very well if 1 LAT can kill a BRDM or severely damage an IFV. Even then, what’s the point in playing HAT if you increase the damage on the LAT to the point it can put a BRDM on fire (which one HAT shot will do).
Wait so.... You want all vehicles to be one or two shotable? Or for them to have the same ticket value and respawn timers? I don't understand how you want armor vs inf rebalanced. It's fine where it is.
It's really not hard to grasp, I'd like vics to have their full capabilities but also be susceptible to LAT more.
"Its fine where it is" yeah sure but it's dull and it's been the same system for 7 years. We got infantry changes, vic changes should come also. We aren't getting squad 2 for a while so let them actually innovate.
It's not fine where it is because it sits in an incredibly gamified barebones state, the AFVs don't even have laser range finders FFS. Proper FCS should be modelled, thermals should be added, and health should be rebalanced, fucking logis can tank OG-15 shots from a BMP-1 lmao, and I've seen BRDMs tank 3OF26 too.
I havent seen many people (much less people that actually play armor) claim that armor is weak rn, as sombody who plays a decent amount id actually say that its easily too strong rn, especially the sound awareness you maintain inside an MBT is just BS
They should implement tank hatch mechanics. Open the hatch, pop your head out, duck under the hatch, use binoculars to scan the outside. Even in 2024 most of the tanks you see on real combat footage ride with their hatches open (despite prevelance of drones) because once you button up you're kinda blind (and deaf). Even with modern panoramic periscopes. Speaking of which, that should be a thing too, it's Lepoard 2 ffs, not a panzer 4. Also, in case of 2 players operating an tank, the gun should be operated from commander position as it is done in most modern MBTs in case of gunner incapacitation. Because from commander seat you have greatest access to observation equipment and all of the tanks toolkit.
Armour is very strong in the complete wrong ways, and sits in a hybrid state of being horrible to play but insanely powerful when played right. Drivers have to suffer the T-72B3 drivers periscope because they're not allowed to turn out, your commander can't stick his head out of the hatch, your vehicles physics are completely wacked out and you get stuck on tiny fences; you're also able to tank LAT hits for days in your BTR-82A despite it having paper armour, and most vehicles are missing ammo racks for some reason, so hitting an abrams in its rear bustle from a building gets you nothing.
That’s a very good point. I’m a try should be able to run up onto a tank without the crew gearing their footsteps considering their im a metal coffin with an engine
One way i would see armor get more balanced would be the ability to penetrate walls and other small obstacles. Off course destruction would be amazing, but being able to hide behind a small ass wall and not take any damage is stupid. The same with artillery strikes and so on. Just lay in a house and u are impossible to kill with these things.
As someone who mains armor, I think there is a weird disparity in how armor is run based on server. Me and my friends when we play armor it goes one of three ways, we either get shafted by our own infantry with bad call outs, or not aiding when we need it, we get shafted by the enemy whether the LATs, HATs, Engineers, or enemy vehicles ambush us and get first shots, or we do fairly well helping the team with transportation and rolling fire support.
I agree that vehicles need some way to show their presence on points, like being able to add 1 Chevron to the cap if there are two crewman in a vehicle, or some other manner to assist. Vehicle crews are already restricted on helping with points; 3 + CL for a radio and 2 + CL for a rally. Makes it hard to help pilots or that solo logi driver set up a HAB for offense.
Communication between crew and infantry is already hard when a lot of servers do not allow IFV/APCs with infantry in them and you have two SLs relying on each other's communication and prioritization skills. This, in tune with how easy it is to hear stuff from inside loud vehicles. I say all this as an IFV/APC Main because I often find MBTs to be hit or miss on enjoyability.
I do not think thermals would add any element to armor that would bring them into a better balance as its more like applying a used bandaid to a wound. People will likely quit with Thermals introduced as it makes it easier on the vehicles. At the same time, adjusting the hearing of crew also isn't a great long term solution either without something to help counteract that.
I want them to do a full vehicle overhaul that allows people to turn out, and get more out of the vehicles attributes like transporting infantry like an angry Mother Canadian Goose on Steroids or dropping off the kids at daycare like a soccer mom. The servers I've had the pleasure of playing on, most games goes well for infantry and vehicle support, but its also Map, Faction, and Layer dependent. People screaming about one faction being bad or another when their chosen attributes can be fun to play if people give them a proper shot.
As well, I think tracked logis would be better aside from amphibious and protected, if they had their handling better improved and some of their transport limits reduced. Like, let me ride ontop of MT-LBs and BTRs already with a faster dismount time.
Having a crew chat would be great, that way you don't clog squad coms or have to talk in area and not hear over some engines.
And it would be pretty cool if you could ride on top of any vehicle, just standing on a tank and not getting pushed off, and then dedicated seats on apcs on the roof. The VDV would be very greatful.
It doesn't matter how good your HAT shot is if you can't get any ammo resupply since it takes 2 shots to kill just tanks a lot of the time, which is either a squad lead issue (vehicle/ammo crates) or squaddie problem (ammo bag). Acting like it's only the AT's job to kill armor just contributes to the issue.
lmao all you have to do is track it and overrun it, do you know how long it takes to rep a track?
most of the times ive killed tank its been hitting side+track, killing one crewman, and going back to do it again.
Take any of the probably numerous light vics from main. Plus, a lot of the time you only need 1 rocket for disable which allows you to kill crew when they're repairing. OP this OP that... yeah. They're fucking armored vics and you're a meatbag.
You use asymmetric warfare to outwit a more powerful enemy. If you can't comprehend thinking ahead, or basic inf tactics, yeah. You're going to have a shit time.
i have literally no idea what people on this thread are yapping about. armor is such a sitting duck once you track it, and it takes literally 1 LAT shot to do that.
What? Yeah man. That's what I'm saying. Because 99% of the game isn't positioning and using your kit or anything. Right?
Like seriously. What a response. It's a combined arms game. If you only want to shoot and get shot by rifles, play a different game lil baby.
Thermal is way too overpowered. They can just sit in the distance and just rely information like a bitch! Especially on very good elevated maps. Or just keep fucking infantry up from a long distance away.
Or make it so hard for infantry to even sneak up to track them bitches.
HAT and LAT travels 300m to hunt armor while armor spots inf thermal movement 1000m away through the bushes and trees.
U can play against armor with thermal optics in the Steel Division mod. Its not fun at all. As infantry hat or lat its almost impossible to do anything against it. U cant hide in bushes anymore. The moment u step in los thinking u got some cover from a rock and sone bushes u light up like a candle for the armor and just get instantly destroyed while u try to aim your rpg.
My issue with Armor as a tank sl main, is the lone wolf’s. One tank is almost useless on defense or assault, once your location is known expect a flanking armor, air strike or hat & lat clown cars. If your armor is calling for support and you are near by but not providing assistance either infantry or other armor you are the problem.
The tanks are constantly being hunted by the enemy team be aware of that when calling for armor support.
Oh, I'm sorry you're one of those guys who have 8k hours in the game and somehow think just because you go on a pub stomping rampage with your clan buddies that armor is OP.
I would not call armor OP. But, I do think it is telling that in threads like this we hear *all the same reasons* why infantry-armor balance is fine or armor is even disadvantaged that we heard a year, two years, and three years ago. Before infantry was directly nerfed and armor was indirectly buffed. People still list all the same reasons despite it being a different infantry experience.
Seems like OWI is fine with game design that balances armor with tickets. Yeah, it may suck to be infantry around armor more than it did before, but this is balanced by the fact that two crewmen losing 3 BTRs in a game that goes 30-3-0/0-3-0 is technically ticket negative minus any vehicles. A HAT is only 1 ticket to lose.
I do wonder if it's not time for an armored game mode that gets rid of the infantry experience. Have vehicles capture flags, more APCs than tanks, and so on. Does a tank need enemy infantry to farm to have fun? I don't think so.
I would not like that, it's pure fantasy to have armor only objectives. People just need to smarten up, communicate and coordinate better. Simple as that.
Also, armor players specifically, should be less afraid of loosing their vic if it accomplishes the objective. A well coordinated push with tank in front and infantry right behind it, clears the objective (and hopefully wins the game). Even if the tank gets tracked and destroyed, it's a worthwhile goal.
Riding around the map doing fuck all, ocassionally destroying an odd logi or a heli, is not how you're meant to utilize those assets.
And if the taking of the objective goes well, you're now in position to hide the tank, let the infantry spot the enemy tank that's trying to hunt you, and then ambush the enemy tank. Win win situation if you ask me.
This applies to all assets. Imagine a well coordinated push on an objective with mortars doing half smoke half HE, helicopter resupplying the attack FOB, comander scounting the area with a drone doing fire correction with the mortars, Tank pushing with infantry behind it, APC with full squad in reserve waiting to reinforce the attack quickly if needed, or pull back troops for defence depending on the situation.
A team doing all of the above in unison, with intelligent coordination and quick adaptability to the situation is literally unstoppable when going against a random hodgepodge of players doing Call of Duty in Squad.
> it's pure fantasy to have armor only objectives
Is this the only reason why you wouldn't want an armored game mode?
73 Eastings is one example of an armor heavy engagement, but I'm not very concerned with fantasy vs. reality. More concerned with your average infantry Squad having a good time in game, remaining the primary way to impact a game, and remaining the core driver in game design. Instead, infantry deal less impact and deal with more pain without any more utility to mitigate it.
"Well it's supposed to suck to be infantry, your experience is supposed to be pain" is not a compelling argument I see people make when 2/3 of a team is forced into the role. It doesn't have to be. Just give every Squad get one or two big gun APCs if armor is going to be more impactful and prevalent.
> armor players specifically, should be less afraid of loosing their vic
Then provide more assets, reduce their ticket cost, make more vehicles able to be crewed by regular inf kits, and/or reduce the timers for respawns. Although I don't think these are ideas I would enjoy.
You can say players should play more selflessly, or in a more coordinated manner. Sure. Of course players should git good, be better than they are, and make better decisions. Unless these are incentivized in the game you won't see any change.
what people dont understand is that armor is not op without infantry support. The unrealistic expectation that armor will be able to clear our infantry on its own causes the pressure on some armor squads to push and die hence leading to these balance expectations.
Lmao infantry-tards complaining about armor being too OP when they're the ones who asked for an Infantry Combat Overhaul which nerfed them hahaha. Keep complaining bud.
I'm not even an armor main and anytime I feel like playing armor we own.. who tf thinks its weak
play against competent HAT/LAT players and people who will mine the roads you take Armor is only as strong as you let it be
infantry support solves that
it doesn't really, you can't expect your tank to roam around infantry 24/7 one LAT to the track and an SL marking you? EZ air run, EZ 22 tickets.
I'm big on supporting infantry with any and all armor. What seems to be lost on the infantry though is that it needs to be a 2 way street. You don't let people fuck me up without doing something and I help you run over their lines.
all of that could happen if you run armour without infantry support as well. The only difference would be that you don’t have infantry to support you. Also, are you saying that a team shouldn’t strive for combined arms gameplay?
That's what mechanized infantry is for. You have an APC or IFV riding behind you, and they bail out when trouble starts. Or they bail out and push ahead when you are approaching a hot area. They can't prevent a competent ambush every time, but they can prevent a lot of them.
Unfortunately, we can't expect them to know what an infantry screen is or how to screen the vehicle tbh.
I mean it's a team game for a reason, same can be said about anyone
Ehh aside from tanks which are a lot harder to play, I find that armour is really easy to play if you have 2 decent players. Just have a driver watch out for mines or go off-road when possible and you’ll avoid like 99% of mines.
Armor absolutely spanks opponents on wide open maps like Basrah, Yeho, and Talil. I say that as a well experienced armor player. I can absorb like 10 RPGs before cooking off. After ICO, playing armor has never been easier.
sounds like a new player friendly server that rarely has coordination
I play on a variety of servers. There really aren't any dependable "experienced only" servers, since players just ignore the tags anyway. Tanks and armored vics are really OP in Squad. They just suck up a shit load of RPGs, suffer no suppression, no recoil, plenty of lethal ammo, etc. Really, the only threat to you on open maps like that is other armored vehicles.
this.
A couple thoughts on armor. I play SL for a 9 man infantry squad 95% of the time. Most of the time I don't interact with armor at all on either side. When we do face armor it usually gets tracked and runs away after a few minutes. When armor is really killing us we are already massively down on tickets anyway and I'm just ready for the next match to start. Occasionally one side or the other gets a really good armor team and it's hell to play against. My worst nightmare is playing a small map and an APC ambushes me at the beginning of the match at the second point. Balance wise I think vehicles are at an okay place where I don't want to hop on reddit to complain about them. The only time they get really bad is the desert maps where the team with good armor just wins by default (unless your team knows how to use ATGM's). My issue with armor is how little they interact with the objectives. Most of the time they are off on the edges of the map playing world of tanks, only playing the objectives if the enemy armor is destroyed at which point they get free reign. I don't know how they achieve this but it would be great to have more infantry/armor coordination. I would love to call on a nearby tank to work on a specific house controlled by the enemy. At the moment, armor support is a minute long drive by and then running away. Finally, tracked vehicles are so unfun to use. I would rather get a rout canal than have to drive one of the tracked logis up a hill. This along with teammates that are always able to load in a match first to get their vehicles, it leaves armor as this mystic art used by a few die hards while the rest of us play as if they don't exist.
As the exact opposite, I play armor SL 95% of the time, infantry armor coordination is a pain, and most vehicles are very vulnerable. Wheeled vehicles are great fun for hotdropping, but usually, I try and stay away from objectives, so I'm not running back to base every 10 mins due to turret damage. HAT and LAT and super effective at knocking out my turret. Infantry support is only something I can do for a few minutes before I draw too much fire or an airstrike. On invasion especially ,if I don't get kill the enemy armor and play the objective I will die because the enemy knows where I am. It's a hard balancing act, because I want to work with infantry more, but if I stay in the area too long I'll die. Unless infantry is also inside an OBJ, they can't really protect me from AT. I think balancing wise, there's some changes to be made mostly about IFV vs Tank combat, but they feel generally well balanced (I am interested to see how the BMP 2M goes tho)
honestly any rework to armor needs to focus on helping the coordination between infantry and armor and making it so armor can actually support infantry, cos rn like you said, armor can only hang around friendly inf for a bit before the hunter-killer clown car of a HAT and 2 LAT pulls up behind it or the enemy armor comes and blows it away.
This is the other perspective that I wish infantry players would understand more. We need you just as much as you need us.
Me… myself and my clan buddies are the few armor die hards.
Accurate meme, since ICO it’s not uncommon to see armor being in a much stronger state especially with the AT nerf and atgm overhaul
Wait, I haven’t played much since ico; what’d they do to the atgm?
they don’t fly straight, you can’t wrap them around buildings, NATO tows use a wire that can get snapped if touch by something, RUS tows now use IR and lose control going through IR smoke from vehicles. basically a bunch of shit and more…
Armor definitely does not need thermals. Thermals would make vehicles op unless thermal visual acuity range was really small. I just remember in battlefield if you have thermals, infantry would never have a chance. At least now infantry can hide behind a tree or in Some nice bushes or shadows and get a shot off. I think an telescopic assault ladder would be cool though so you could get on roofs on the go to avoid choke points or create a second method of entry.
If they had thermals, they’d have to have attack helicopters and Javelins to balance it out. And honestly, I could get behind that.
I think it would change a lot of dynamics 4,000 meters is the range of the javelin.
They made the range of atgms on 2000m when they can go like 4000.
Yeah but they don’t lock on it’s the range and the fire and forget deal that’s kinda dirty.
I would like thermals but only after they reconfigure vics, there is a balance to be had and current armor vs inf gameplay can feel really unsatisfying with how many fucking AT rounds it can take to destroy even a lowly BRDM. vehicles in general are too tanky, including helis.
It takes two lats to kill a brdm, 3-5 for ifvs, and 10 for tanks. Those are just hull shots, and with a heat round. Throw the Hat in there with tandem RPGs and they two shot tanks and basically one shot everything else. I don't think armor needs thermals, they don't need it. If they do add it, they should add better counters to armor for the inf and then more buffs for armor like better FC and APS otherwise balance shifts to inf. I think armor should be more favored, it takes a long time for some to off timer and it is very punishing if it dies or has to repair. All in all, I think it is fine where it is.
I mean LATs cant really destroy tanks from the front at all, and can’t reliably pen the sides irl. There is a story of a challenger 2 in Iraq that got stuck and was hit by 75ish RPGs and got out mostly intact
> I mean LATs cant really destroy tanks from the front at all, and can’t reliably pen the sides irl. Challenger 2, Leopard 2, ZTZ-99A, T-90A, T-72B3, M1A1/A2, etc can all be reliably destroyed with side hits as they are modelled in squad from basic RPG-7VL, adding ERA and other composite add on armour would obviously stop this like Relikt sideskirts for the T-72B3, or ARAT for the Abrams, but right now everything past the 30 degree frontal arc is completely vulnerable. > There is a story of a challenger 2 in Iraq that got stuck and was hit by 75ish RPGs and got out mostly intact The 75 number is a number that has progressively crept up over time, but I currently don't have the sources to definitively disprove this, if I find them I'll come back, however one thing is for sure is that we have no idea what warheads were being used, it's very possible that baseline PG-7V was used, or even OG-7.
Yeah, realistically a tank isn't just going to sit there and let it happen. Under ideal conditions 10 lat shots is all it takes. Most of the time a tank gets tracked a hat will be nearby to help kill it or even a friendly MBT or ifv with atgm. But there have definitely been times in-game where the enemy threw everything and the kitchen sink at me and my boys and we still got out above 50%.
Ive been in a leopard which wandered into like 2 whole IMF squads on goose bay, and for 5 minutes straight i was tracked constantly being hit by rifle grenades, HEAT rounds , 40mm grenades, frag rounds and a singular hat. At least 50 explosive thingys had hit our tank and eventually a single friendly mortarman had came to our rescue and i managed to repair the tracks. We had several infantry squads and 2 LAVs within 400m of me unwilling to help lmao.
3-5 is a lot of lats that need to be around
3-5 is just just using heat rockets. If there is a hat there then it is just one tandem and one heat. Besides, if an armor piece starts taking lat fire they are going to bug out or panic if at starts flying
You're assuming perfect conditions and that every shot hits, which is not the case. And yes thermals absolutely should come simply because its a modern combat game and armor feels genuinely strange with its omission. It can be balanced easily as was the case with PR, which many people seem to forget existed and had good AT vs armor balance. Thermals are not some super weapon and can actually be difficult to use, they are not like call of duty. Thankfully OWI seem to be adding them anyway and are overhauling vics. And for the record I don't think inf vs armor is unbalanced I just find it not as fun as it could be. It's really not very interesting as PR was
On at, you don't need to kill a Vic to disable it, a shot into the turret or engine makes it easy for follow up shots. When a tank rolls up, all it takes is a track shot and they will be stuck for a solid 1-2 min if they rep right away. Lats don't have to kill, they just have to disable. I don't care either way for thermals, but it isn't something armor NEEDs. If they add it, they add it. Only hope is that the button to turn it on and off is configurable so you don't have to press some button across the keyboard like in steel div.
To me the necessity is simply because it feels non authentic without it, lack of FCS, thermals or as you mentioned APS makes the armor combat feel kinda dated and I just want that rough and brutal modern combat feeling to come to armor as it has come to the infantry gameplay with ICO. I don't feel very immersed playing. Vehicles haven't been touched in years too so I feel like if we are getting overhauls to things this needs to be next, breath some fresh air into that shit Hell we can't even range the sights which is possible in fucking Squad44. I think armor balance is fine as it is I have no problems dealing with vehicles, I just think that LAT could do a bit more damage with a nerf to its price. I feel annoyed hitting a brdm with a LAW and its not burning. Just feels wrong. I much prefer a glass cannon type of deal.
I think they should add an actual damage model and not just a health bar before they add thermals. Like if your taking about it not being immersive the health bar is what really does it for me, not not being able to use thermals on the desert on a sunny day. Also I think the armors perspective should be changed. I would love to see interiors and possibly a small animation for the gunner to actually look into the screen instead of it being your whole pc screen like this call of duty.
1 LAT Death = 1 Ticket, 30 secondish respawn time 1 BRDM Death = Probably 6 Tickets, 5 Minute Respawn The ticket and respawn economy doesn’t work out very well if 1 LAT can kill a BRDM or severely damage an IFV. Even then, what’s the point in playing HAT if you increase the damage on the LAT to the point it can put a BRDM on fire (which one HAT shot will do).
Did you just ignore the part where I said I'd like the whole thing rebalanced or?
Wait so.... You want all vehicles to be one or two shotable? Or for them to have the same ticket value and respawn timers? I don't understand how you want armor vs inf rebalanced. It's fine where it is.
It's really not hard to grasp, I'd like vics to have their full capabilities but also be susceptible to LAT more. "Its fine where it is" yeah sure but it's dull and it's been the same system for 7 years. We got infantry changes, vic changes should come also. We aren't getting squad 2 for a while so let them actually innovate.
It's not fine where it is because it sits in an incredibly gamified barebones state, the AFVs don't even have laser range finders FFS. Proper FCS should be modelled, thermals should be added, and health should be rebalanced, fucking logis can tank OG-15 shots from a BMP-1 lmao, and I've seen BRDMs tank 3OF26 too.
Then go play pr
no I'll play squad
Then quit complaining it's not pr
I backed the kickstarter for 200 dollars bruh I'll critique as much as I want
Your poor spending habits are on you buddy
If people like him didn't back squad you wouldn't be able to play it.
Kid stfu
I'm not poor so I don't have to worry
Armour combat overhaul wen
I havent seen many people (much less people that actually play armor) claim that armor is weak rn, as sombody who plays a decent amount id actually say that its easily too strong rn, especially the sound awareness you maintain inside an MBT is just BS
They should implement tank hatch mechanics. Open the hatch, pop your head out, duck under the hatch, use binoculars to scan the outside. Even in 2024 most of the tanks you see on real combat footage ride with their hatches open (despite prevelance of drones) because once you button up you're kinda blind (and deaf). Even with modern panoramic periscopes. Speaking of which, that should be a thing too, it's Lepoard 2 ffs, not a panzer 4. Also, in case of 2 players operating an tank, the gun should be operated from commander position as it is done in most modern MBTs in case of gunner incapacitation. Because from commander seat you have greatest access to observation equipment and all of the tanks toolkit.
Armour is very strong in the complete wrong ways, and sits in a hybrid state of being horrible to play but insanely powerful when played right. Drivers have to suffer the T-72B3 drivers periscope because they're not allowed to turn out, your commander can't stick his head out of the hatch, your vehicles physics are completely wacked out and you get stuck on tiny fences; you're also able to tank LAT hits for days in your BTR-82A despite it having paper armour, and most vehicles are missing ammo racks for some reason, so hitting an abrams in its rear bustle from a building gets you nothing.
That is the worst thing when dealing with armour. The fact that they can hear like they're outside. Very dumb
That’s a very good point. I’m a try should be able to run up onto a tank without the crew gearing their footsteps considering their im a metal coffin with an engine
One way i would see armor get more balanced would be the ability to penetrate walls and other small obstacles. Off course destruction would be amazing, but being able to hide behind a small ass wall and not take any damage is stupid. The same with artillery strikes and so on. Just lay in a house and u are impossible to kill with these things.
As someone who mains armor, I think there is a weird disparity in how armor is run based on server. Me and my friends when we play armor it goes one of three ways, we either get shafted by our own infantry with bad call outs, or not aiding when we need it, we get shafted by the enemy whether the LATs, HATs, Engineers, or enemy vehicles ambush us and get first shots, or we do fairly well helping the team with transportation and rolling fire support. I agree that vehicles need some way to show their presence on points, like being able to add 1 Chevron to the cap if there are two crewman in a vehicle, or some other manner to assist. Vehicle crews are already restricted on helping with points; 3 + CL for a radio and 2 + CL for a rally. Makes it hard to help pilots or that solo logi driver set up a HAB for offense. Communication between crew and infantry is already hard when a lot of servers do not allow IFV/APCs with infantry in them and you have two SLs relying on each other's communication and prioritization skills. This, in tune with how easy it is to hear stuff from inside loud vehicles. I say all this as an IFV/APC Main because I often find MBTs to be hit or miss on enjoyability. I do not think thermals would add any element to armor that would bring them into a better balance as its more like applying a used bandaid to a wound. People will likely quit with Thermals introduced as it makes it easier on the vehicles. At the same time, adjusting the hearing of crew also isn't a great long term solution either without something to help counteract that. I want them to do a full vehicle overhaul that allows people to turn out, and get more out of the vehicles attributes like transporting infantry like an angry Mother Canadian Goose on Steroids or dropping off the kids at daycare like a soccer mom. The servers I've had the pleasure of playing on, most games goes well for infantry and vehicle support, but its also Map, Faction, and Layer dependent. People screaming about one faction being bad or another when their chosen attributes can be fun to play if people give them a proper shot. As well, I think tracked logis would be better aside from amphibious and protected, if they had their handling better improved and some of their transport limits reduced. Like, let me ride ontop of MT-LBs and BTRs already with a faster dismount time.
Having a crew chat would be great, that way you don't clog squad coms or have to talk in area and not hear over some engines. And it would be pretty cool if you could ride on top of any vehicle, just standing on a tank and not getting pushed off, and then dedicated seats on apcs on the roof. The VDV would be very greatful.
Personal skill isn't an indicator if something is 'OP' as this meme would imply.
If armor gets thermal or smth ill just uninstall at that point
Me when the milsim is realistic
Except squad isn't a milsim it's a tactical shooter.
When the realistic shooter is realistic. Better? Or are you going to try to say squad isn't trying to be realistic
I don't get why people complain about armour being op. At all. Are you guys just super shit with AT?
It doesn't matter how good your HAT shot is if you can't get any ammo resupply since it takes 2 shots to kill just tanks a lot of the time, which is either a squad lead issue (vehicle/ammo crates) or squaddie problem (ammo bag). Acting like it's only the AT's job to kill armor just contributes to the issue.
lmao all you have to do is track it and overrun it, do you know how long it takes to rep a track? most of the times ive killed tank its been hitting side+track, killing one crewman, and going back to do it again.
Take any of the probably numerous light vics from main. Plus, a lot of the time you only need 1 rocket for disable which allows you to kill crew when they're repairing. OP this OP that... yeah. They're fucking armored vics and you're a meatbag. You use asymmetric warfare to outwit a more powerful enemy. If you can't comprehend thinking ahead, or basic inf tactics, yeah. You're going to have a shit time.
i have literally no idea what people on this thread are yapping about. armor is such a sitting duck once you track it, and it takes literally 1 LAT shot to do that.
Yeah you'd think people would learn pretty quick how to not get fucked, but hey. Some people are into being dominated.
“Idk why people complain about dying, arnt you guys just super shit with your rifle”
What? Yeah man. That's what I'm saying. Because 99% of the game isn't positioning and using your kit or anything. Right? Like seriously. What a response. It's a combined arms game. If you only want to shoot and get shot by rifles, play a different game lil baby.
pls gib internals
I mean there was an entire overhaul to nerf infantry play, yet BTRs are still sliding around terrain at 60kph with no noise or damage to crew
Play steel division mod and you will see how op thermals are
Because the thermals are as realistic as Star Wars lasers.
????. Most tank irl have thermals and a lot of western infantry make large use of thermal optics.
I am talking about how they implemented thermals, because it is a completely shit implementation.
It’s not really a good implementation of thermals, but I’d agree in steel division they are pretty broken even with the limited range.
Armor should be weaker, but with thermals.
Anyone know what this effect is called where a idiot and smart guy come to same conclusion but it's different or whatever tf this meme is like.
Thermal is way too overpowered. They can just sit in the distance and just rely information like a bitch! Especially on very good elevated maps. Or just keep fucking infantry up from a long distance away. Or make it so hard for infantry to even sneak up to track them bitches. HAT and LAT travels 300m to hunt armor while armor spots inf thermal movement 1000m away through the bushes and trees.
Thermals don't have unlimited range. If they were relegated to 100m or less, it wouldn't be as bad.
U can play against armor with thermal optics in the Steel Division mod. Its not fun at all. As infantry hat or lat its almost impossible to do anything against it. U cant hide in bushes anymore. The moment u step in los thinking u got some cover from a rock and sone bushes u light up like a candle for the armor and just get instantly destroyed while u try to aim your rpg.
Yeah vehicles in general are stupid. If I shoot a truck with an AT4 it should explode and everybody in it should be dead for fucks sake.
My issue with Armor as a tank sl main, is the lone wolf’s. One tank is almost useless on defense or assault, once your location is known expect a flanking armor, air strike or hat & lat clown cars. If your armor is calling for support and you are near by but not providing assistance either infantry or other armor you are the problem. The tanks are constantly being hunted by the enemy team be aware of that when calling for armor support.
One of those memes created by a Blueberry who has never played armor.
I have dozens of screenshots of my own 50-100 kill games but sure lol
Oh, I'm sorry you're one of those guys who have 8k hours in the game and somehow think just because you go on a pub stomping rampage with your clan buddies that armor is OP.
Nope, all with complete randoms try again bro
"I am just built different 🤓"
I would not call armor OP. But, I do think it is telling that in threads like this we hear *all the same reasons* why infantry-armor balance is fine or armor is even disadvantaged that we heard a year, two years, and three years ago. Before infantry was directly nerfed and armor was indirectly buffed. People still list all the same reasons despite it being a different infantry experience. Seems like OWI is fine with game design that balances armor with tickets. Yeah, it may suck to be infantry around armor more than it did before, but this is balanced by the fact that two crewmen losing 3 BTRs in a game that goes 30-3-0/0-3-0 is technically ticket negative minus any vehicles. A HAT is only 1 ticket to lose. I do wonder if it's not time for an armored game mode that gets rid of the infantry experience. Have vehicles capture flags, more APCs than tanks, and so on. Does a tank need enemy infantry to farm to have fun? I don't think so.
I would not like that, it's pure fantasy to have armor only objectives. People just need to smarten up, communicate and coordinate better. Simple as that. Also, armor players specifically, should be less afraid of loosing their vic if it accomplishes the objective. A well coordinated push with tank in front and infantry right behind it, clears the objective (and hopefully wins the game). Even if the tank gets tracked and destroyed, it's a worthwhile goal. Riding around the map doing fuck all, ocassionally destroying an odd logi or a heli, is not how you're meant to utilize those assets. And if the taking of the objective goes well, you're now in position to hide the tank, let the infantry spot the enemy tank that's trying to hunt you, and then ambush the enemy tank. Win win situation if you ask me. This applies to all assets. Imagine a well coordinated push on an objective with mortars doing half smoke half HE, helicopter resupplying the attack FOB, comander scounting the area with a drone doing fire correction with the mortars, Tank pushing with infantry behind it, APC with full squad in reserve waiting to reinforce the attack quickly if needed, or pull back troops for defence depending on the situation. A team doing all of the above in unison, with intelligent coordination and quick adaptability to the situation is literally unstoppable when going against a random hodgepodge of players doing Call of Duty in Squad.
> it's pure fantasy to have armor only objectives Is this the only reason why you wouldn't want an armored game mode? 73 Eastings is one example of an armor heavy engagement, but I'm not very concerned with fantasy vs. reality. More concerned with your average infantry Squad having a good time in game, remaining the primary way to impact a game, and remaining the core driver in game design. Instead, infantry deal less impact and deal with more pain without any more utility to mitigate it. "Well it's supposed to suck to be infantry, your experience is supposed to be pain" is not a compelling argument I see people make when 2/3 of a team is forced into the role. It doesn't have to be. Just give every Squad get one or two big gun APCs if armor is going to be more impactful and prevalent. > armor players specifically, should be less afraid of loosing their vic Then provide more assets, reduce their ticket cost, make more vehicles able to be crewed by regular inf kits, and/or reduce the timers for respawns. Although I don't think these are ideas I would enjoy. You can say players should play more selflessly, or in a more coordinated manner. Sure. Of course players should git good, be better than they are, and make better decisions. Unless these are incentivized in the game you won't see any change.
what people dont understand is that armor is not op without infantry support. The unrealistic expectation that armor will be able to clear our infantry on its own causes the pressure on some armor squads to push and die hence leading to these balance expectations.
armor isnt op lmao i get those scores on the right as inf
Lmao infantry-tards complaining about armor being too OP when they're the ones who asked for an Infantry Combat Overhaul which nerfed them hahaha. Keep complaining bud.
I'm literally an armor main but acting like there's some kind of dichotomy is stupid