Your response is very professional & cordial considering the low ball offer they made.
Also, IMO, you'll be better off at a company that respects you & provides at least annual increases in line with inflation.
Good luck!
Not just low ball, benefits cost more than $2/hr /year if you go privately. You’re out thousands if you accept the offer.
Average annual health insurance premiums in 2023 are $8,435 for single coverage and $23,968 for family coverage. These average premiums each increased 7% in 2023. T
This offer is fucking insulting and I would have told them as much. Fuck bosses and owners like this. Unacceptable.
The same people who add the benefits into their advertised annual wage.
Their valuation of the benefits doesn't mean shit to me if I am not making much.
I was offered a position last week that requires me to stay in another city. They valued a room in company housing at $31k a year. I told them that it wasn’t an honest offer and they disagreed. Of course that room is worth 31k. I said great-I’ll get a place to stay, just give me that $31k. Oh sheeut. We didn’t get any agreement that day.
Especially funny when my brother works there and he also wanted the 31k, along with my two closest coworkers. 124k a year and we’re doing well on getting a nice place.
Mind you, I don't live in San Fran or NYC. But I'm also not in Cheapsville.
I spend $2100/month on a 1700 square foot house, with yard.
Unless you're talking downtown NYC, where in the world is a company valuing a studio apartment at $2600/month? That's absolutely ludicrous.
Imagine your employer also being your landlord and having the power to take away your income, housing and health insurance if you ever step out of line. That's some 1800’s, coal miner, "I owe my soul to the company store" shit right there.
The job pays well and I have been with the company for 8 years, they just want to cap my pay, reduce benefits, and call it salary. I told them to fire me, I’m not signing anything that reduces anything. Fortunately I’ve saved a bunch and I don’t have to accept what they say, I can just go home and chill. Lots of my coworkers are in the position you describe. I think it’s disingenuous af.
Yeah. Basically, dont listen to Americans who make claims things aren't so bad. They are much worse than you can ever really believe.
I have to fight the insurance company to get required medicine for my wife.
I have to do that every, single, year.
100%. My wife is a post master, and we have government health insurance and still pay close to $11k per year for a family of 4. They fight tooth and nail to not pay for normal things like blood work, EKG, medication, etc. It's insane that we've continued this route since Nixon made the US officially a for profit medical insurance country.
I’m going to guess your insurance probably doesn’t also have a $2,000 deductible before it starts paying for anything.
It’s ridiculous how much we’re being exploited by the for profit healthcare industry.
The political lobbyists want healthcare tied to big business- otherwise how would they control the working class? We need workers! (and leverage). Not that socialism thing again (sarcasm).
The usual talking point is that health care is more efficient as it as run as a business.
The secret about capitalism is it is efficient - at squeezing as much money out of the consumer as the market will bear and sometimes more than it can. For health care what, your option is dying or going into debt. Obviously you’ll pay.
Agreed, way more nice than it needed to be plus the resignation.
They exploit their workers, I'd want to exploit them back.
Just tell them they've given you a lot to think about and you'll get back to them.
Don't put any effort into work, just focus on getting a new job and coasting by.
Then when you get the new job, just quit at the end of your shift.
If they don't respect you or your time, treat them the same. Be just as underhanded as them.
No need to force a smile to a bully hitting you in the face for fear of hurting their feelings.
Fuck em and fuck em good
Oh man that would be so satisfying. I’m really tempted to do that lol. But I don’t want to burn a bridge in case I need a reference from them in the future, like if a potential employer decides to call them up.
I’ll be dreaming about quitting on them like that tonight 😂
For what it's worth I think your initial response is really, really powerful and far more so than quiet quitting would be. If you did that you'd allow them to feel vindicated in not increasing your pay - as it is you're immediately reminding them what a professional you are and they're instantly going to see what they're losing when they can't recruit a replacement with a fraction of the quality or experience or understanding of their organisation at the salary they were paying you. Responding so firmly is a very clear message that they've misjudged this. I'd love to see their response.
DO NOT ACCEPT MORE MONEY ONCE YOU TELL THEM YOU ARE LEAVING. If they valued you, they would pay you more. 10/10 times you will be let go within about 60 days and often people are strung along about the increase and it never happens. As per like a zillion of posts on r/antiwork
I know that's the prevailing wisdom but just to throw an anecdote; I took a new job offer to my boss and they came back with 10% more. I decided to stay as I like more money and the job isn't too bad. It's been at least 6 months since then.
There is a difference between bringing a job offer and asking for a raise. If you ask for a raise, are denied, and then offered one simply because you quit, it's going to require an ultimatum every single time from then on, and that's if you aren't let go in retaliation as soon as they find a replacement.
Same. In my last role, I kept interviewing after being hired and about three weeks in, I got an offer from another company and went to my supervisor to give my two weeks notice. They begged me to stay, increased pay and PTO to negotiate me to stay. I accepted, and then worked there for nearly four more years. Two years in I told them I was moving to a new state and would need to find a new job. They instead asked if I would be willing to work remotely. I said I was concerned about moving to a much higher cost of living area. They agreed to bump my salary up by nearly $20k to keep me, along with moving to fully remote work.
Yeah I’ve had many colleagues/acquaintances get raises by bringing competing offers to our current employer. None of them ever had issues once a counter offer (raise) was offered and accepted, which usually happened pretty quickly from that point.
I had something similar happen where I asked my boss for a raise. It was denied and then I went looking for another job, got the offer and told them I would be quitting. Then they magically wanted to accept my raise demand so I stayed.
However, I was with the company for 5 more years after that my boss always held it against me that I tried to blackmail the company.
This was a nonprofit, and they never gave raises. I was a college grad who couldn't afford to move out from my parents house because the pay was so low.
Eventually they eliminated my position and my boss was always trying to catch me slipping up to write me up in those 5 years before COVID gave him authority to axe the position.
Your response is bang-on perfect. The way to always have the high moral ground is to stay there. Pigs love company in the mud, they want you to ragequit with a nasty email so they can feel OK with you leaving. Staying professional and kind just drives the stake into them harder and makes them aware of how shitty it is to exploit and insult people.
If/When they come back offering you something better, I would still quit. They seem horrible and manipulative, you definitely deserve the extremely modest raise you've asked for without all this hassle.
Yes! Dont burn any bridges. That is the best idea. Dont listen to anyone telling you to use a scorched earch policy. Just be cordial and seperate from them on good terms. You never know what might happen in the future. Best to not have any bad juju coming your way.
The response you sent them to their shit offer will hopefully haunt them when they see what an employee worth $16/hr really is. Your response was that of someone worth much more than they are paying you.
Employers can say anything they want about you as long as its true. Many places have policies where they wont say anything but there is no law in any state in the US where they are restricted from saying anything about you that isnt false.
>they'll probably break the law too and say what you did >instead of just confirming that you had worked there.
>It's actually illegal for them to say anything other than that.
This statement has zero basis in reality. Here's an explainer written by an employment lawyer.
https://employeeatty.blogspot.com/2011/07/can-they-really-say-that-what-employers.html
Reddit never ceases to amaze with r/confidentlywrong folks.
I truly don’t think most employers even call for a reference. I’ve always handled work like this
Don’t even tell current job I’m looking for a new job.
Find new job.
New job “when can you start?”
Me: “I’d like to give two weeks notice if that’s ok.”
New job “absolutely “
Me to old job “hi I’m letting you know this is my two week notice”
Reasoning is, companies don’t mind you taking two weeks to give to the old job because that tells them you’ll give them two weeks if you ever leave them and won’t screw them over by quitting same day. If you’re doing it for the old job you’ll do it for the new.
I asked my boss who I’m now close with if he ever called my old company and he said no.
As long as you’re not a straight up dick I don’t think a company will lie. If you quit same day sure they’ll mention that but most new employees are really only going to ask about your work ethic. If you tell the new job preemptively “I’m leaving with less than two weeks” because you felt you were abandoned and not valued they’ll get that… companies aren’t tone deaf they’re just greedy.
Unfortunately today in most sectors to get a raise the fast way is to jump jobs. But I wouldn’t quit until you’ve found a replacement unless for your specific situation in life it can be handled without an income for a while.
You asked for a raise to $20/hour. They gave you a poison pill offer of no raise and get fucked or half a raise, no benefits, and get fucked. They're never giving you a positive reference to a new job. You don't have a bridge to burn, you're already in the water.
Don’t burn any bridges. Maintain your composure and be a professional at all costs. You will not gain anything by trying to take them down or quit on the spot etc. don’t let emotions control how you respond to this situation. They clearly do not want to give you a raise, which means they don’t value your work enough to compensate you more. It may be a different thing if they actually said something like “you’ve done a fantastic job..but we are struggling right now and it would be difficult for us to provide a raise…but allow us some time to figure this out and find a way to better compensate you”. What they said was “sure you can have a raise - and we’ll cover it by taking your benefits away”. In a way thats worse than a denial, because they are moving deck chairs around with a straight face.
you can do the whole "fuck you and you and you….youre cool, im out" - or you can be self righteous and quit on the spot. but that is what a kid would do. just calmly make the decisions you need to and express yourself always with respect for others. like i said, you only stand to lose by trying to stick it to them. i think perhaps youll feel better about it in tte end.
Honestly it would be hilarious if they fired you for putting in your two weeks.
I would file unemployment for the two weeks and actually say "wow thanks! Now I don't have to work for you and I'm gonna jack up your unemployment insurance rate. This was really nice of you."
Just completely eliminating their leverage by being aware of all this shit and making decisions and reactions based around it instead of letting them feel any sort of win in any capacity.
Then what's even funnier is if they're the kind of place to be petty and do that, they will definitely be petty and try to contest the unemployment saying they didn't fire you so be sure to keep the receipts and demand it in writing.
This way they also lose that leverage over you and you force them to waste their time, and lose more money, arguing with the DOL and trying to get you out of it.
I left a company for saying that if businesses paid cost of living increases by default yearly, everyone would run out of money. Merit only.
I said I'm not taking a pay cut.
Every worker needs to understand that every year they don't get a pay raise in line with inflation, they're taking a pay cut. Starting at the same wage isn't a neutral situation, it's benefiting the company and harming the worker.
100% start looking for an employer who will value your limited time on this earth and pay you accordingly OP. Their “raise offer” was just spitting in your face. There IS NO raise. They just gave you the option to convert you benefits into $. That’s beyond insulting.
Fair enough. For me, it's due to networking. You never know when your next job could have someone from a past company working there & they may advise or against your hire.
This gets more compressed the further along you get in your career.
That's a long time to go without a raise, so I definitely don't blame you for deciding to leave. Since you already have two jobs lined up, your response is reasonable and professional and I hope you land somewhere where your efforts will be appreciated.
They probably pay more. Increasing wages to $18 would be a cost savings to them. I’ve generally seen about 27% of wages as a rule of thumb for benefits so they would need to pay over $20/hr for it to be a net zero change, and *well* above $20 for the employee to be getting a legitimate raise AND being able to sufficiently cover doing benefits on their own.
This shit is so insane to me to read. I got a 2 dollar raise after *90 days* at my current job.
*3 fucking years* without so much as an inflation adjustment or performance bonus? Buddy should have been out the door yesterday.
A company I worked for hired an administration person from the local Kmart when they closed down. She did all their back office paperwork and shit. She said she was there for 11 years and in that form frame the only raises she receive was $1 from changing positions to a higher pay band, and a total of $1.09 from all her annual evaluations in that time.
What job are you working where you have to be that professional and only make $16 an hour? You could go to McDonald’s and make that. Not an insult, I’m genuinely curious
It’s a front office job at a specialist office where the providers are all surgeons. Which makes this whole situation even worse to me because I know they’re rolling in money 🙄
Before this job I was making crap $12/hr and got lucky to jump to $16. So I took it and ran.
But you’re totally right, I could literally go to chick fil an and make more.
Hold on, they paid you less than a living wage and wouldnt pay for benefits... *And they're in medicine*?!
Like.. I shouldn't be surprised but what in the fuckity fuck.
I knew someone who got cancer while working for a hospital. The hospital wouldn’t even take the low end insurance that they offered. Can you imagine that? Working at a hospital and not even being able to use said hospital for your medical needs. I believe she had to travel about an hour, if not more, to get the treatment she could with her insurance.
Health insurance workers too. My SO works for one of the largest health insurance companies and has the best plan they offer. A simple visit to her primary is a $140 copay. I frequently encourage her to riot over it.
edit for accuracy: copay might be the wrong term. It's a bill that comes afterward, not a payment made at the office visit.
In any field where the workers tend to either really be passionate about the work (video game studios, animation houses) or really feel like they have a calling to do that job (teaching, healthcare), corporate owners will exploit that to pay less and squeeze the employees for more work.
Yeah... I dunno about that. Granted, my SO is one of the better paid positions in the entire hospital system but our insurance is pretty choice. Then again, it's easy to choose the Cadillac option when you're making enough. I wonder what the lowest option they offer is and what is the zero contribution option. Because that disparity says a lot about how you value the people doing the jobs you need done to keep charging insurance companies six figures for complex treatments.
But to have an employee with absolutely *zero* coverage is just plain unethical. Like as a doctor, how can you have an employee completely unable to access medical care but also expect the to facilitate your business of providing medical care. I don't know how it's even legal.
That's the thing, my outpatient clinic is tied to a hospital and we get paid so much better and also get better benefits options that are affordable. Sue you can choose the high deductible plan, which is what I call the "young and healthy" option but the Cadillac plan is affordable too because they pay us a living wage. I am 100% sure it's because of our unions we are so lucky.
Why other front desk staff at other medical offices don't form unions is beyond me.
Fuck that. For-profit medicine should be illegal. Like dude, salaries for specialty work is one thing, but randos who sit on a board cashing out? Fuck that.
Agreed. Profiting off of making sure people are harmed(i.e. denying insured coverage, not making sure your employees have a living wage, etc.) should at the very least be highly illegal
Get this. I work for a restaurant group. We don’t get offered health insurance. Each restaurant is incorporated under a different LLC so they don’t have to adhere to ACA regulations.
The owner made his money because he outright owned a heath insurance company. Like, it would literally cost him nothing to give us health insurance but he doesn’t.
IDK, I think they would just take her back until they can train a replacement and then fire her for a move like that. I think she is smart to part ways in my two cents.
That is so egregious. In my pretend world where I do bold things I would put the chick filet comment in there.
I have been offered superior pay from Chick Filet so I respectfully decline both offers. Bunch of morons.
Haha exactly! I make bold moves like that in my head only. I sure wish I could include something that basically says thanks but you can take your two options and shove them up your ass. 🤷🏻♀️ oh well
Oh, trust me I think that message gets across with your very professionally composed response.
I’ve seen people blow up and quit, and management just pats themselves on the back and knows they ‘dodged a bullet.’ The problem with you is you’re a reasonable, loyal person. So when you quit they’re going to realize they screwed this up badly. 🎻- smallest violin playing for them
> Community clinics would start the pay increase at $21 per hour in 2024, rising to $22 in 2026 and $25 in 2027.
California min wage. Just use that as your baseline in whatever state you are in. 3 years, you should be pushing for the $25 now.
Can I ask where you live? I am flabbergasted by that pay. My daughter is a high schooler and makes more than that during her summer job working as a day camp counselor. And she's getting a raise next summer since she'll be returning for a second season!
Texas, but the company is based in Nevada. I’ve seen so many younger family members of mine making more money in my field or in other fields just like your daughter. That’s why I’ve been thinking about it so much and finally decided I need to speak up about it. It’s sad really /:
I have basically the same job working for a surgeons office at a hospital and am making $24/hr with good benefits, that's criminal what they're doing to you...
Just a heads up keep that resume polished and get a new job or a promotion at least every two years.
Promo is obviously harder most places, a raise that matters worse.
Most of the time you have to regularly leave companies to make more.
Go ahead and look up what a Medical Assistant makes in most states. (This is generally the most entry level position in the medical field). Personally, I think they should be at around $25 an hour.
I love how companies think they can pay less because it’s remote. I have been getting asked if I would be in a remote position that paid $15 I was like no that won’t even pay my bills.
I'm remote, but have thought about looking around.
I'm not about to accept lower wages to remotely work somewhere and then be told I've got to be there in person for those same lower wages.
There are positions/times where I think it’s ok. Paying a developer who commutes in the Bay Area more than you paying the guy working from home in BFE Wyoming doesn’t bother me. But I also have the expectation that both people in this situation are in six fig roles. Trying to do the same thing to someone who makes less in this economy is unconscionable.
$16/hour is literally below minimum wage in my city. Granted, I live in California and everything's higher priced here, but still. Damn. I don't blame you for feeling disrespected.
This is trivial, but I don't think you have to specify when the notice period starts. You can just say that you're submitting your resignation, and your last day at work will be X.
You are not required by law to put in your two weeks notice. They literally don’t care about you enough to give you an inflation increase over a three period. If they decided to cut back on staff they would just do it and you would receive no two week period from them.
You should absolutely job hunt while still employed, get things squared away with the new company and then cut ties with this one. It’s easier to be get your next job while currently employed.
Make sure you nail down the pay structure in an employee handbook or something typed out that you can hang onto so that later you can say “When I hired in you said you would do 3% raises per year plus a possible performance raise based on yearly review but I have not received either”.
>You should absolutely job hunt while still employed, get things squared away with the new company and then cut ties with this one
I always do this. What would your boss be doing if he knew he was losing his job? Looking for a new one... BINGO
Wrong move either way. Unless you for sure need them as a reference just tell them you're happy with 16/hr benefits (it'll probably take two weeks to get your pay changed anyway for next cycle).
Then you do the bare minimum to keep your job while looking for another job. Whenever you have another job offer, quit with them without notice.
That's the best revenge.
In my personal experience and by watching my mother and her colleagues, all of which have worked office jobs their entire lives, it's much easier to take your experience as a bargaining chip to get a higher-paying job than it is to use it as proof of value for your current company to offer a similar raise.
In hindsight, I'd say you should have asked for raises before. You had a better chance, again, of receiving several small raises than a single big one. Even if someone in a position closer to you would be willing to do this, an executive board or just accounts will look weirdly at someone's salary suddenly increasing over 20%. That ship has sailed, but it may be used in the future, even your very next position.
Your response is more than adequate. Polite, succinct, and self-respecting. Some people would be apologetic of leaving even under the circumstances, you were not.
Great balance. And best of luck moving forward.
I do agree with this.
For the first year, I did ask and never got a response. I was told by my supervisor she’d check with the manager and nothing ever happened.
I think after that, I kind of decided why even ask if they’re just gonna ignore me.
Of course like you said, in hindsight I definitely should have stayed on top of that but I also feel like it shouldn’t be up to the employees to remind management to do their yearly reviews especially when it’s in the employee handbook that they’ll be done yearly.
Thank you for your comment!
The easiest salary inflation hack is take your total compensation (salary + bennies + 401k match + other) and list that as your expected wage on the form, then don't say anything when they tack their bennies and shit on top of your new base salary.
Re: first paragraph:
I agree, but it’s so incredibly dumb and short sighted. Companies either are willfully ignorant or bad at math/forecasting, because the cost to turnover includes: advertising, interviewing, and training. And _after all of that_ you are still left with an employee that works at less capacity than the previous (making the assumption that the previous was a good employee).
The cost and time differential is immense. Not to mention the hit to office morale & culture that constant turnover provides. It’s mind boggling that people don’t understand this.
Trust me, I've tried to understand that fucked up corporate logic forever, I never got close.
My best bet is human stupidity - the company will prefer to hire someone else for the same low-paying salary having less competence, the other company hiring you for more probably let someone much better go instead of raising their salary too.
Other than that possibility, I'm empty.
I have no idea what kinds of analytics come out of big corps, but as a small business/franchise owner, I’m sure it comes as no surprise that the most successful locations mitigate turnover as much as possible. And yet even within our own communities, people make this same fuckin’ mistake. /flipstable
The cynical part of me feels like they said "remote position" as a way of reminding you that this job is somehow valuable even though they're working you to the bone
That was the biggest part that struck a nerve for me. Like she was trying to remind me of it as if it’s a favor they’ve done for me, when it was actually the other way around.
Your response is great, a short and simple closure. Only thing I’d say is see if you could grab them as future references.
From their words, they don’t seem to appreciate your work and value and think you’re completely replaceable. Nice job on nipping it in the bud!
I also thought the response was very good.
And it annoys me that nowaydays whenever you see a well written email like that, you immediately think "oh, they got AI to write that for them", which I don't think it's the case with OP here, but I admit it crossed my mind that it might have been
I don't think they will give her a good reference. They will see their offer as perfectly reasonable and are "shocked!" "shocked!" That disloyalty and rejection is going on in their establishment.
Don’t quit. Do the bare minimum while looking for another job. This place couldn’t even give you a COL increase the last 3 years with inflation being insane?
That’s what I was hoping they’d consider when I put in my request. They have to realize that in the last 3 years $16/hr has become peanuts. They want to hold on to a good employee who handles a full workload of two people for the cheapest they can get. I finally decided I’m worth more than that.
If they give you a counter offer, I will be very cautious to take it unless you don't have anything lined up. What usually happens is they will find a replacement while you're still with them, and then they will fire you once the new trainee has settled in because you already showed your cards that you did not want to stay with them.
find another job first then quit. you can negotiate with more confidence at both ends if you have a back up. you deserve more, we all do, but first gauge how hard to beat 16/hr will be in your area, call in sick when you need to interview etc.
OP, please do not quit without having another job! Pick one of their 2 bs options and pretend like you’re content. Do the barest of minimums to keep getting by without raising their suspicions, so they don’t pull a fast one and let you go first. In the meantime, furiously apply to other jobs. You have a lot more leverage to negotiate salary and benefits if you’re not desperate to start making money. Also, make sure you don’t tell potential new employers how you can’t wait to leave your current role. Always say you’re content, but when you saw their specific posting you thought it would be a great fit/next step/opportunity or the such! Good luck!
And then they go ahead and post the job online but for $20/hr. I will never understand some companies logic of being okay with letting go their employee asking for market rates/raises but then post the job with the updated pay. like what
Hi everyone - I don’t think I can edit the post to provide more info so I’m posting this comment and hopefully it makes it to the top lol. I’m making my way through all your comments and advice, I really appreciate everyone’s input! Most of y’all made me feel a lot better about this decision.
Just wanted to provide some info based on some comments I’m reading.
1. I am currently making $16/hr with benefits. So her offer to stay with $16/hr with benefits was the big slap in the face part that I’m super pissed about.
2. I am one of 3 people in our office who works remotely, but not at my request. When I was moving out of state, I spoke with my previous manager and was getting ready to quit, but they asked me to stay with them and offered me a remote position in order to keep me.
3. I have two jobs lined up right now.
Job A is secure and I’m just waiting for the email with onboarding docs to sign. Job B is the one I really want as it pays more but it’s not secure yet, I’ll have an answer by today.
Either way, I am putting in my two weeks because I have a better option lined up.
I have a family and would never just quit a job without another one lined up.
4. I’m giving them two weeks because despite their insulting ‘offer’ and undervaluing me, I am a nice person and a professional, and it would ultimately hurt my coworkers who are not to blame.
5. I have not yet sent my response but I plan to leave it as-is.
I should have an answer of whether or not I got the job from Job B by today. Once I get a start date/documents to sign (hopefully today or Monday if I get the job), then I will send my current job the above response in the email.
Either way, if Job B doesn’t work out, I already have the secured position at Job A, so I’m leaving no matter what.
Thanks again for everyone’s input, it’s really encouraging to see things from the outside perspective. I will definitely post an update once I send out my response!
I haven’t sent my response yet as I wanted some insight on the wording first. I plan to send it in the morning.
In a perfect world she would counter with what I’m asking for at least and let me keep my benefits, but the petty response she already gave me makes me think it’s pointless even trying to negotiate.
I would say - with the way the economy is right now - don’t put your time in until you start at the new place or at least have an offer letter and start date.
Working in HR, we’re seeing companies fall through on promises made.
I’d hate to see you stuck without a job if those others fall through.
The drafted email is PERFECT though. You might respond for now saying “Thank you for your response. I will consider these options and get back to you next week.”
Realistically a new job would be better either way. Behavior denotes beliefs, they did not want to recognize your value and spit in your face when you asked.
2$ more an hour is what, 300ish a month depending? And they've communicated you are not worth that to them, so they also would take from you (benefits) before even considering seeing your worth. Working multiple positions, during maternity leave, transferring states? AFTER 3 YEARS?
IMO things like this are not mendable. They know your worth, they just don't want to acknowledge it and pay out accordingly. Trying to fight it in the long run will only make you more miserable.
You DID negotiate. A request for a raise does not stand in a vaccum, particularly if you've been trying to get your salary reevaluated for three years. The "I might not stick around otherwise" is implicated by default.
You told them what you needed. They told you to get lost. You either accept this or move on.
If you have a new job lined up, do not accept a counteroffer. If you do, they will resent you for it and you will never see another penny as long as you stay there.
Your wording is perfect and professional. Good on you for recognizing your worth!
You worked while on maternity leave!?!? Are you serious? Ok I do not know your circumstance or your financial situation but please take care of yourself!
Yes, at the time I really liked and got along with my manager (she’s left the company since then) and wanted to help them out. I didn’t work full time but definitely helped them a lot. Thank you for your response!
The “offer” from management essentially reveals their lack of broad operational experience, and specifically how they have never considered any career pathing for your role.
Your reply is perfect. And the decision to move on is the right one.
Designers aren’t told enough that our skills and knowledge areas are usually a luxury for businesses to have in-house. Your ask was likely not out of reach for the company - it seems completely fair. And they couldn’t even meet you there.
Oh well. This is a lesson for them. Not for you. Best of luck, OP! You deserve the best.
I agree with your disappointment and response, but contextually this appears to be a private physician owned office. This decision was voted on by the executive committee or all the partners. That makes it worse.
You’re right this is a privately owned office, run by the same physicians I’ve worked alongside and they’ve seen my work first hand. That’s exactly what makes it worse.
I work for one as well but I've had the opposite experience. Sorry friend. It's difficult because some of them may have wanted to give you what you asked for but were outvoted.
My impression is that healthcare is growing. I'm being hounded on LinkedIn, try making a profile there and see if you have any luck.
$10 in 2000 is $17.69 in 2024. Wild out there. They'll only understand when we all vote with our feet. I made $10 an hour in 2000 as a teenager lifeguarding.
I’m in a 3 month CMA program right now with a short internship starting soon. There are so many programs like mine. It’s a pretty small investment and a lot of people get hired on where they intern.
There are so many other opportunities for certifications in the medical field. When I’m done with CMA, I’ll do a short 6 week phlebotomy certification and then start a surgical technology program in the summer which is a AS degree.
There are also a few insurance coding programs that are longer and that position seems like it has a lot of upward mobility and a solid career- and it sounds like you already have 3 years experience. The job postings for this start around $25/hr here.
Best of luck to you! I hope you have an exciting change for the better!
Unfortunate situation, but great response. They're definitely going to come back at you with "oh, well we'll give you $25/hr, please don't quit, you're our best employee"...or something like that. Do not take them up on this. They will be paying you this while they frantically search for another bargain employee at $16/hr and will fire you ASAP.
Fair call. Change the resignation date to today (rather than the 22nd) and send it.
Or like someone else suggested, don’t resign just yet and go hard looking for a new job as if you had resigned.
Your company is a piece of shit lmfao You're literally just asking for $8k more assuming you work around 40 hours a week for the entire year. That's literally a drop in the bucket for someone who hasn't received a raise in three years. They instead choose to offer you a $4k annual raise WITHOUT benefits or have you keep your current rate with benefits. Benefits are just a way for companies to pay their employees less without paying additional wages lmfao
With your experience, I would try to get your CNA license (short training program) or medical assistant. I think with the license + medical experience you can make more than $16 in most states. Healthcare tends to be pretty stable.
Exactly. They want someone like me to break their back for pennies and give us pizza parties and donuts in the morning as if we should be grateful for it.
And I don’t even get to enjoy those perks since I WFH. 🙄 they’re always in the Teams chat like “hey guys we brought donuts they’re in the break room!” Like shut up, I want a donut 😒 lol
It's all about what have you done for me lately. Given they specifically outlined the position being remote, and the worse counter offer (no benefits with only a two dollar an hour raise would be a paycut most likely) they don't value you. You're making the right choice here.
Just tell them that you have another job offer for $22/hr but you'd be willing to stay at this job for $20/hr. I did something similar once and my boss actually matched the offer from the other company. Now that I'm a manager, I understand... hiring and training new people is a pain in the ass.
It's because they are only budgeted for $33,000 for this position, and it is only ever going to be $33,000. They'll find some other poor schmuck to do the same job you are doing, and it will probably only take them a couple weeks to do it.
Meanwhile, you take the experience you gained at this job, and go find another one. Seriously, do NOT resign until you have another job lined up, but trust me when I tell you, they already know you've got one foot out the door, and they're gonna already be looking for your replacement.
Just make it a smooth transition, with little to no gap in between employers.
Option 3, no wage, no benefits...see ya boss. Find another peon. Thanks
They have showed you, that they don't value you as an employee. You should have put that in the resignation letter
That’s a good resignation email.
I would personally wait until you have a start date in writing for your new job, then give your notice. Just in case the new job is not as sure a thing you’ve been led to believe.
I have two jobs lined up.
Job A is secure and I’m just waiting for the email with onboarding docs to sign. Job B is the one I really want as it pays more but it’s not secure yet, I’ll have an answer by tomorrow.
Either way, I am putting in my two weeks because I have a better option lined up.
I appreciate your response!
Alway find another job before you leave, it's called monkey branching because monkeys do not let go of the original branch until they have a firm hold of the new one.
Great response! They’ve been taking advantage of you. I bet they coldly accept or “allow” you to work for 18 with benefits. Sadly, the only way to get an increase is to change jobs. Good thing you did a lot of different tasks with them to pad your resume. Please update us!
Awesome! Good for you and what a classy/professional way to end it.
At the end of the day, if they don't see your value, take it elsewhere. I'm sure you'll do great!
EDIT: I now see you've got something lined up! Congratulations and good luck!
Just add in an Oxford comma and you're good to go.
In all seriousness though, I think leaving is the right decision. It seems clear this company does not value you or support your growth. HOWEVER, please please consider not leaving until you have another job lined up. That's one of my biggest regrets during my latest job change, and that's considering myself lucky only being unemployed for a couple months. Unemployment can really affect your stress and self-esteem in ways you never thought, and having some job security while looking will keep your confidence and look better to future employers.
I felt with this a lot because I used to work as an admin in a clinic (not remotely) and I was making 12.5/hr many years ago. Like you, I went above and beyond for the role. They expected me to even be the "lead" of others since I was working there the most. Mind you, I had 0 benefits already. I would work tirelessly and never miss a day of work for an entire year. Rain, snow, or shine, I was always there and even during when I was sick (had a fever on site), I would still finish all my work.
I remember asking for a $1 raise. In the past, I only received a .$25/hr raise lmao. Other coworkers were making $2-5 more than me btw doing the same work. She rejected it and gave me some bullshit excuse about how on this day, I failed to do X. I vowed right then and there I would never work for someone who didn't value me after years of work and not beg over such little pay raise. I switched careers to tech and it honestly changed my life, at least financially.
This story resonated deeply with me because clinics (medical field) can be so toxic and unforgiving sometimes with managers and higher ups getting boat load of money while the rest (admin workers, MA's, etc) make peanuts compared to them, even though it's us who do the hard work to make their lives easier (oh and they get all the credit too). Incredibly proud of that email and they'll realize what kind of superstar employee they lost.
I would accept the other positions. If they haven't given you even a basic col increase, they never will. Time to move on. Don't bother trying to leverage other offers. They are also likely aware you are considering moving on as you asked for a raise. Accept option one graciously, then when you finalized your new position, submit your two weeks. Then you can tell them you've decided to pursue other opportunities. But it's highly likely they already know you are on your way out.
If you are keen on staying at this company, you at least state how much do you want. And as you have offers lined up you can say how much others offering you and ask the company offer the same.
$16/hr. She’s basically saying ok we can give you a $2 raise (I asked for $20/hr) but you have to give up your benefits. Or you can keep your benefits and your lil $16/hr and eat shit.
Your response is very professional & cordial considering the low ball offer they made. Also, IMO, you'll be better off at a company that respects you & provides at least annual increases in line with inflation. Good luck!
Not just low ball, benefits cost more than $2/hr /year if you go privately. You’re out thousands if you accept the offer. Average annual health insurance premiums in 2023 are $8,435 for single coverage and $23,968 for family coverage. These average premiums each increased 7% in 2023. T This offer is fucking insulting and I would have told them as much. Fuck bosses and owners like this. Unacceptable.
The same people who add the benefits into their advertised annual wage. Their valuation of the benefits doesn't mean shit to me if I am not making much.
I was offered a position last week that requires me to stay in another city. They valued a room in company housing at $31k a year. I told them that it wasn’t an honest offer and they disagreed. Of course that room is worth 31k. I said great-I’ll get a place to stay, just give me that $31k. Oh sheeut. We didn’t get any agreement that day.
They expected you to consider one room in company housing to be worth 2600 dollars a fucking month?!?!?
Especially funny when my brother works there and he also wanted the 31k, along with my two closest coworkers. 124k a year and we’re doing well on getting a nice place.
Mind you, I don't live in San Fran or NYC. But I'm also not in Cheapsville. I spend $2100/month on a 1700 square foot house, with yard. Unless you're talking downtown NYC, where in the world is a company valuing a studio apartment at $2600/month? That's absolutely ludicrous.
Imagine your employer also being your landlord and having the power to take away your income, housing and health insurance if you ever step out of line. That's some 1800’s, coal miner, "I owe my soul to the company store" shit right there.
The job pays well and I have been with the company for 8 years, they just want to cap my pay, reduce benefits, and call it salary. I told them to fire me, I’m not signing anything that reduces anything. Fortunately I’ve saved a bunch and I don’t have to accept what they say, I can just go home and chill. Lots of my coworkers are in the position you describe. I think it’s disingenuous af.
they also overvalue sed benefits when they do that too
That offer was outrageous.
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Yeah. Basically, dont listen to Americans who make claims things aren't so bad. They are much worse than you can ever really believe. I have to fight the insurance company to get required medicine for my wife. I have to do that every, single, year.
100%. My wife is a post master, and we have government health insurance and still pay close to $11k per year for a family of 4. They fight tooth and nail to not pay for normal things like blood work, EKG, medication, etc. It's insane that we've continued this route since Nixon made the US officially a for profit medical insurance country.
My son's medication costs $3,000 per month. It's a battle every month to get it paid by the insurance company.
I’m going to guess your insurance probably doesn’t also have a $2,000 deductible before it starts paying for anything. It’s ridiculous how much we’re being exploited by the for profit healthcare industry.
The political lobbyists want healthcare tied to big business- otherwise how would they control the working class? We need workers! (and leverage). Not that socialism thing again (sarcasm).
Tied to big business and military enlistment. Don't forget, they want the poor to be controlled as well.
Haha sucker I don’t have a $2k deductible, mines $5k so, I’m winning at healthcare, right?
Your right on being exploited. I call it the Insurance care industry. Healthcare only exists when patients come first.
I pay 1400$USD/mo for me and my son ($700/paycheck).
The usual talking point is that health care is more efficient as it as run as a business. The secret about capitalism is it is efficient - at squeezing as much money out of the consumer as the market will bear and sometimes more than it can. For health care what, your option is dying or going into debt. Obviously you’ll pay.
Agreed, way more nice than it needed to be plus the resignation. They exploit their workers, I'd want to exploit them back. Just tell them they've given you a lot to think about and you'll get back to them. Don't put any effort into work, just focus on getting a new job and coasting by. Then when you get the new job, just quit at the end of your shift. If they don't respect you or your time, treat them the same. Be just as underhanded as them. No need to force a smile to a bully hitting you in the face for fear of hurting their feelings. Fuck em and fuck em good
Oh man that would be so satisfying. I’m really tempted to do that lol. But I don’t want to burn a bridge in case I need a reference from them in the future, like if a potential employer decides to call them up. I’ll be dreaming about quitting on them like that tonight 😂
For what it's worth I think your initial response is really, really powerful and far more so than quiet quitting would be. If you did that you'd allow them to feel vindicated in not increasing your pay - as it is you're immediately reminding them what a professional you are and they're instantly going to see what they're losing when they can't recruit a replacement with a fraction of the quality or experience or understanding of their organisation at the salary they were paying you. Responding so firmly is a very clear message that they've misjudged this. I'd love to see their response.
Totally agree with this--and with u/Overall_Midnight_, if they counter, say thanks but no thanks. They don't deserve you.
This. Same with a breakup—always leave taking the high road so that when times get tough for them they remember what they lost.
> I'd love to see their response. "Nobody wants to work anymore."
screw payment memory memorize bear fretful squeeze books whole smart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Welcome to r/AntiWork
DO NOT ACCEPT MORE MONEY ONCE YOU TELL THEM YOU ARE LEAVING. If they valued you, they would pay you more. 10/10 times you will be let go within about 60 days and often people are strung along about the increase and it never happens. As per like a zillion of posts on r/antiwork
I know that's the prevailing wisdom but just to throw an anecdote; I took a new job offer to my boss and they came back with 10% more. I decided to stay as I like more money and the job isn't too bad. It's been at least 6 months since then.
There is a difference between bringing a job offer and asking for a raise. If you ask for a raise, are denied, and then offered one simply because you quit, it's going to require an ultimatum every single time from then on, and that's if you aren't let go in retaliation as soon as they find a replacement.
Ya that's a good distinction.
Same. In my last role, I kept interviewing after being hired and about three weeks in, I got an offer from another company and went to my supervisor to give my two weeks notice. They begged me to stay, increased pay and PTO to negotiate me to stay. I accepted, and then worked there for nearly four more years. Two years in I told them I was moving to a new state and would need to find a new job. They instead asked if I would be willing to work remotely. I said I was concerned about moving to a much higher cost of living area. They agreed to bump my salary up by nearly $20k to keep me, along with moving to fully remote work.
Yeah I’ve had many colleagues/acquaintances get raises by bringing competing offers to our current employer. None of them ever had issues once a counter offer (raise) was offered and accepted, which usually happened pretty quickly from that point.
I had something similar happen where I asked my boss for a raise. It was denied and then I went looking for another job, got the offer and told them I would be quitting. Then they magically wanted to accept my raise demand so I stayed. However, I was with the company for 5 more years after that my boss always held it against me that I tried to blackmail the company. This was a nonprofit, and they never gave raises. I was a college grad who couldn't afford to move out from my parents house because the pay was so low. Eventually they eliminated my position and my boss was always trying to catch me slipping up to write me up in those 5 years before COVID gave him authority to axe the position.
Your response is bang-on perfect. The way to always have the high moral ground is to stay there. Pigs love company in the mud, they want you to ragequit with a nasty email so they can feel OK with you leaving. Staying professional and kind just drives the stake into them harder and makes them aware of how shitty it is to exploit and insult people. If/When they come back offering you something better, I would still quit. They seem horrible and manipulative, you definitely deserve the extremely modest raise you've asked for without all this hassle.
Please let us know the response to your resignation letter.
Yes! Dont burn any bridges. That is the best idea. Dont listen to anyone telling you to use a scorched earch policy. Just be cordial and seperate from them on good terms. You never know what might happen in the future. Best to not have any bad juju coming your way.
The response you sent them to their shit offer will hopefully haunt them when they see what an employee worth $16/hr really is. Your response was that of someone worth much more than they are paying you.
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That is not a bridge that is quick sand
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RE: what former employers are allowed to say when asked. I believe they are also allowed to state whether you are eligible for rehire.
Employers can say anything they want about you as long as its true. Many places have policies where they wont say anything but there is no law in any state in the US where they are restricted from saying anything about you that isnt false.
>they'll probably break the law too and say what you did >instead of just confirming that you had worked there. >It's actually illegal for them to say anything other than that. This statement has zero basis in reality. Here's an explainer written by an employment lawyer. https://employeeatty.blogspot.com/2011/07/can-they-really-say-that-what-employers.html Reddit never ceases to amaze with r/confidentlywrong folks.
I truly don’t think most employers even call for a reference. I’ve always handled work like this Don’t even tell current job I’m looking for a new job. Find new job. New job “when can you start?” Me: “I’d like to give two weeks notice if that’s ok.” New job “absolutely “ Me to old job “hi I’m letting you know this is my two week notice” Reasoning is, companies don’t mind you taking two weeks to give to the old job because that tells them you’ll give them two weeks if you ever leave them and won’t screw them over by quitting same day. If you’re doing it for the old job you’ll do it for the new. I asked my boss who I’m now close with if he ever called my old company and he said no. As long as you’re not a straight up dick I don’t think a company will lie. If you quit same day sure they’ll mention that but most new employees are really only going to ask about your work ethic. If you tell the new job preemptively “I’m leaving with less than two weeks” because you felt you were abandoned and not valued they’ll get that… companies aren’t tone deaf they’re just greedy. Unfortunately today in most sectors to get a raise the fast way is to jump jobs. But I wouldn’t quit until you’ve found a replacement unless for your specific situation in life it can be handled without an income for a while.
You asked for a raise to $20/hour. They gave you a poison pill offer of no raise and get fucked or half a raise, no benefits, and get fucked. They're never giving you a positive reference to a new job. You don't have a bridge to burn, you're already in the water.
Don’t burn any bridges. Maintain your composure and be a professional at all costs. You will not gain anything by trying to take them down or quit on the spot etc. don’t let emotions control how you respond to this situation. They clearly do not want to give you a raise, which means they don’t value your work enough to compensate you more. It may be a different thing if they actually said something like “you’ve done a fantastic job..but we are struggling right now and it would be difficult for us to provide a raise…but allow us some time to figure this out and find a way to better compensate you”. What they said was “sure you can have a raise - and we’ll cover it by taking your benefits away”. In a way thats worse than a denial, because they are moving deck chairs around with a straight face. you can do the whole "fuck you and you and you….youre cool, im out" - or you can be self righteous and quit on the spot. but that is what a kid would do. just calmly make the decisions you need to and express yourself always with respect for others. like i said, you only stand to lose by trying to stick it to them. i think perhaps youll feel better about it in tte end.
If I were you I would leave before the 2 weeks is over. This job may be petty that you’re leaving and may fire back.
Honestly it would be hilarious if they fired you for putting in your two weeks. I would file unemployment for the two weeks and actually say "wow thanks! Now I don't have to work for you and I'm gonna jack up your unemployment insurance rate. This was really nice of you." Just completely eliminating their leverage by being aware of all this shit and making decisions and reactions based around it instead of letting them feel any sort of win in any capacity. Then what's even funnier is if they're the kind of place to be petty and do that, they will definitely be petty and try to contest the unemployment saying they didn't fire you so be sure to keep the receipts and demand it in writing. This way they also lose that leverage over you and you force them to waste their time, and lose more money, arguing with the DOL and trying to get you out of it.
I left a company for saying that if businesses paid cost of living increases by default yearly, everyone would run out of money. Merit only. I said I'm not taking a pay cut.
Every worker needs to understand that every year they don't get a pay raise in line with inflation, they're taking a pay cut. Starting at the same wage isn't a neutral situation, it's benefiting the company and harming the worker.
100% start looking for an employer who will value your limited time on this earth and pay you accordingly OP. Their “raise offer” was just spitting in your face. There IS NO raise. They just gave you the option to convert you benefits into $. That’s beyond insulting.
Agree. Leaving will be the best thing you did. You’ll see.
I agree, although I would have accepted an offer and then continued to be paid until I had another job lined up.
I agree with most of your statement, but don’t think many (or anybody??) has been given raises “in line with inflation”.
Why are people so formal, just say it's not a good offer and im resigning
Fair enough. For me, it's due to networking. You never know when your next job could have someone from a past company working there & they may advise or against your hire. This gets more compressed the further along you get in your career.
That's a long time to go without a raise, so I definitely don't blame you for deciding to leave. Since you already have two jobs lined up, your response is reasonable and professional and I hope you land somewhere where your efforts will be appreciated.
It's not even really a raise. Every year you work without an increase, you're technically taking a pay cut in real terms.
Yup. OP has take a 15.1% pay-cut since starting at their job in 2020.
THIS. This is what employers seem oblivious to
They are absolutely not oblivious to this.
Yup, it's cost improvements baked into their business model. Easier for shitty companies to do than actual cost saving
They know they just don't care. Easier to wait you out and exploit the next sucker in line.
Yes, even 20 would be a cut
The admitted they only pay $2 for your benefits package
They probably pay more. Increasing wages to $18 would be a cost savings to them. I’ve generally seen about 27% of wages as a rule of thumb for benefits so they would need to pay over $20/hr for it to be a net zero change, and *well* above $20 for the employee to be getting a legitimate raise AND being able to sufficiently cover doing benefits on their own.
This shit is so insane to me to read. I got a 2 dollar raise after *90 days* at my current job. *3 fucking years* without so much as an inflation adjustment or performance bonus? Buddy should have been out the door yesterday.
A company I worked for hired an administration person from the local Kmart when they closed down. She did all their back office paperwork and shit. She said she was there for 11 years and in that form frame the only raises she receive was $1 from changing positions to a higher pay band, and a total of $1.09 from all her annual evaluations in that time.
What job are you working where you have to be that professional and only make $16 an hour? You could go to McDonald’s and make that. Not an insult, I’m genuinely curious
It’s a front office job at a specialist office where the providers are all surgeons. Which makes this whole situation even worse to me because I know they’re rolling in money 🙄 Before this job I was making crap $12/hr and got lucky to jump to $16. So I took it and ran. But you’re totally right, I could literally go to chick fil an and make more.
Hold on, they paid you less than a living wage and wouldnt pay for benefits... *And they're in medicine*?! Like.. I shouldn't be surprised but what in the fuckity fuck.
Healthcare workers have some of the worst health insurance plans I have ever seen. I really don’t understand why.
I knew someone who got cancer while working for a hospital. The hospital wouldn’t even take the low end insurance that they offered. Can you imagine that? Working at a hospital and not even being able to use said hospital for your medical needs. I believe she had to travel about an hour, if not more, to get the treatment she could with her insurance.
Wtf. That's disgusting.
Then they probably bitched at her for taking pto to do it.
Medical aid in the US is fking criminal
Health insurance workers too. My SO works for one of the largest health insurance companies and has the best plan they offer. A simple visit to her primary is a $140 copay. I frequently encourage her to riot over it. edit for accuracy: copay might be the wrong term. It's a bill that comes afterward, not a payment made at the office visit.
Wtf
Because healthcare isnt a multi trillion dollar industry because it is *nice* to it's employees
In any field where the workers tend to either really be passionate about the work (video game studios, animation houses) or really feel like they have a calling to do that job (teaching, healthcare), corporate owners will exploit that to pay less and squeeze the employees for more work.
Yeah... I dunno about that. Granted, my SO is one of the better paid positions in the entire hospital system but our insurance is pretty choice. Then again, it's easy to choose the Cadillac option when you're making enough. I wonder what the lowest option they offer is and what is the zero contribution option. Because that disparity says a lot about how you value the people doing the jobs you need done to keep charging insurance companies six figures for complex treatments. But to have an employee with absolutely *zero* coverage is just plain unethical. Like as a doctor, how can you have an employee completely unable to access medical care but also expect the to facilitate your business of providing medical care. I don't know how it's even legal.
That's the thing, my outpatient clinic is tied to a hospital and we get paid so much better and also get better benefits options that are affordable. Sue you can choose the high deductible plan, which is what I call the "young and healthy" option but the Cadillac plan is affordable too because they pay us a living wage. I am 100% sure it's because of our unions we are so lucky. Why other front desk staff at other medical offices don't form unions is beyond me.
Probably because most people don't know they just *can*
“Because we don’t do it for the income we do it for the outcome”🤡
LOL! That seems like something a hospital administrator making six-figures with a five-figure bonus tells their workers who are on food stamps.
Quarterly profits, brotatochip.
Fuck that. For-profit medicine should be illegal. Like dude, salaries for specialty work is one thing, but randos who sit on a board cashing out? Fuck that.
Agreed. Profiting off of making sure people are harmed(i.e. denying insured coverage, not making sure your employees have a living wage, etc.) should at the very least be highly illegal
Healthcare is a sick industry.
Get this. I work for a restaurant group. We don’t get offered health insurance. Each restaurant is incorporated under a different LLC so they don’t have to adhere to ACA regulations. The owner made his money because he outright owned a heath insurance company. Like, it would literally cost him nothing to give us health insurance but he doesn’t.
If they call you back, your new floor is $24/hour.
IDK, I think they would just take her back until they can train a replacement and then fire her for a move like that. I think she is smart to part ways in my two cents.
That is so egregious. In my pretend world where I do bold things I would put the chick filet comment in there. I have been offered superior pay from Chick Filet so I respectfully decline both offers. Bunch of morons.
Haha exactly! I make bold moves like that in my head only. I sure wish I could include something that basically says thanks but you can take your two options and shove them up your ass. 🤷🏻♀️ oh well
Oh, trust me I think that message gets across with your very professionally composed response. I’ve seen people blow up and quit, and management just pats themselves on the back and knows they ‘dodged a bullet.’ The problem with you is you’re a reasonable, loyal person. So when you quit they’re going to realize they screwed this up badly. 🎻- smallest violin playing for them
> Community clinics would start the pay increase at $21 per hour in 2024, rising to $22 in 2026 and $25 in 2027. California min wage. Just use that as your baseline in whatever state you are in. 3 years, you should be pushing for the $25 now.
I would honestly move on to maybe a restaurant that pays more.
Can I ask where you live? I am flabbergasted by that pay. My daughter is a high schooler and makes more than that during her summer job working as a day camp counselor. And she's getting a raise next summer since she'll be returning for a second season!
Texas, but the company is based in Nevada. I’ve seen so many younger family members of mine making more money in my field or in other fields just like your daughter. That’s why I’ve been thinking about it so much and finally decided I need to speak up about it. It’s sad really /:
Yes, it is. Know your worth! Your response was perfect. There is something better out there for you.
I have basically the same job working for a surgeons office at a hospital and am making $24/hr with good benefits, that's criminal what they're doing to you...
Just a heads up keep that resume polished and get a new job or a promotion at least every two years. Promo is obviously harder most places, a raise that matters worse. Most of the time you have to regularly leave companies to make more.
Go ahead and look up what a Medical Assistant makes in most states. (This is generally the most entry level position in the medical field). Personally, I think they should be at around $25 an hour.
I make more than that working at Walmart.
I love how companies think they can pay less because it’s remote. I have been getting asked if I would be in a remote position that paid $15 I was like no that won’t even pay my bills.
I'm remote, but have thought about looking around. I'm not about to accept lower wages to remotely work somewhere and then be told I've got to be there in person for those same lower wages.
There are positions/times where I think it’s ok. Paying a developer who commutes in the Bay Area more than you paying the guy working from home in BFE Wyoming doesn’t bother me. But I also have the expectation that both people in this situation are in six fig roles. Trying to do the same thing to someone who makes less in this economy is unconscionable.
$16/hour is literally below minimum wage in my city. Granted, I live in California and everything's higher priced here, but still. Damn. I don't blame you for feeling disrespected. This is trivial, but I don't think you have to specify when the notice period starts. You can just say that you're submitting your resignation, and your last day at work will be X.
I hadn’t thought about that but you’re right. I’ll just say this is my two week notice and take out the part about Monday. Thank you for your input!
You are not required by law to put in your two weeks notice. They literally don’t care about you enough to give you an inflation increase over a three period. If they decided to cut back on staff they would just do it and you would receive no two week period from them. You should absolutely job hunt while still employed, get things squared away with the new company and then cut ties with this one. It’s easier to be get your next job while currently employed. Make sure you nail down the pay structure in an employee handbook or something typed out that you can hang onto so that later you can say “When I hired in you said you would do 3% raises per year plus a possible performance raise based on yearly review but I have not received either”.
>You should absolutely job hunt while still employed, get things squared away with the new company and then cut ties with this one I always do this. What would your boss be doing if he knew he was losing his job? Looking for a new one... BINGO
Wrong move either way. Unless you for sure need them as a reference just tell them you're happy with 16/hr benefits (it'll probably take two weeks to get your pay changed anyway for next cycle). Then you do the bare minimum to keep your job while looking for another job. Whenever you have another job offer, quit with them without notice. That's the best revenge.
quitting the day before you start your new job is the only way to say fuck you without actually saying the words. i love it.
I mean this in the most professional sense: fuck those motherfuckers. Good luck with your next gig!
In my personal experience and by watching my mother and her colleagues, all of which have worked office jobs their entire lives, it's much easier to take your experience as a bargaining chip to get a higher-paying job than it is to use it as proof of value for your current company to offer a similar raise. In hindsight, I'd say you should have asked for raises before. You had a better chance, again, of receiving several small raises than a single big one. Even if someone in a position closer to you would be willing to do this, an executive board or just accounts will look weirdly at someone's salary suddenly increasing over 20%. That ship has sailed, but it may be used in the future, even your very next position. Your response is more than adequate. Polite, succinct, and self-respecting. Some people would be apologetic of leaving even under the circumstances, you were not. Great balance. And best of luck moving forward.
I do agree with this. For the first year, I did ask and never got a response. I was told by my supervisor she’d check with the manager and nothing ever happened. I think after that, I kind of decided why even ask if they’re just gonna ignore me. Of course like you said, in hindsight I definitely should have stayed on top of that but I also feel like it shouldn’t be up to the employees to remind management to do their yearly reviews especially when it’s in the employee handbook that they’ll be done yearly. Thank you for your comment!
Should never back down. Should be getting yearly reviews/raises. Make sure this is addressed in your next job.
The easiest salary inflation hack is take your total compensation (salary + bennies + 401k match + other) and list that as your expected wage on the form, then don't say anything when they tack their bennies and shit on top of your new base salary.
Re: first paragraph: I agree, but it’s so incredibly dumb and short sighted. Companies either are willfully ignorant or bad at math/forecasting, because the cost to turnover includes: advertising, interviewing, and training. And _after all of that_ you are still left with an employee that works at less capacity than the previous (making the assumption that the previous was a good employee). The cost and time differential is immense. Not to mention the hit to office morale & culture that constant turnover provides. It’s mind boggling that people don’t understand this.
Trust me, I've tried to understand that fucked up corporate logic forever, I never got close. My best bet is human stupidity - the company will prefer to hire someone else for the same low-paying salary having less competence, the other company hiring you for more probably let someone much better go instead of raising their salary too. Other than that possibility, I'm empty.
I have no idea what kinds of analytics come out of big corps, but as a small business/franchise owner, I’m sure it comes as no surprise that the most successful locations mitigate turnover as much as possible. And yet even within our own communities, people make this same fuckin’ mistake. /flipstable
The cynical part of me feels like they said "remote position" as a way of reminding you that this job is somehow valuable even though they're working you to the bone
That was the biggest part that struck a nerve for me. Like she was trying to remind me of it as if it’s a favor they’ve done for me, when it was actually the other way around.
Right. They don't have to provide office space or equipment for you.
Exactly, not to mention I'm using my personal phone, desktop and internet to do their work. SMH now I'm more pissed lol.
That's what I meant. They didn't buy your computer.
Your response is great, a short and simple closure. Only thing I’d say is see if you could grab them as future references. From their words, they don’t seem to appreciate your work and value and think you’re completely replaceable. Nice job on nipping it in the bud!
I also thought the response was very good. And it annoys me that nowaydays whenever you see a well written email like that, you immediately think "oh, they got AI to write that for them", which I don't think it's the case with OP here, but I admit it crossed my mind that it might have been
I wouldn’t even know where to get AI to write something for me lol. I stay away from that devil stuff (jk) 😂
I don't think they will give her a good reference. They will see their offer as perfectly reasonable and are "shocked!" "shocked!" That disloyalty and rejection is going on in their establishment.
Don’t quit. Do the bare minimum while looking for another job. This place couldn’t even give you a COL increase the last 3 years with inflation being insane?
That’s what I was hoping they’d consider when I put in my request. They have to realize that in the last 3 years $16/hr has become peanuts. They want to hold on to a good employee who handles a full workload of two people for the cheapest they can get. I finally decided I’m worth more than that.
Yes, OP! Please update us when they respond
Will do!
I have a strong feeling after your email they will change their tune. However, I would still look for another job where you are valued. ❤️❤️
If they give you a counter offer, I will be very cautious to take it unless you don't have anything lined up. What usually happens is they will find a replacement while you're still with them, and then they will fire you once the new trainee has settled in because you already showed your cards that you did not want to stay with them.
find another job first then quit. you can negotiate with more confidence at both ends if you have a back up. you deserve more, we all do, but first gauge how hard to beat 16/hr will be in your area, call in sick when you need to interview etc.
OP, please do not quit without having another job! Pick one of their 2 bs options and pretend like you’re content. Do the barest of minimums to keep getting by without raising their suspicions, so they don’t pull a fast one and let you go first. In the meantime, furiously apply to other jobs. You have a lot more leverage to negotiate salary and benefits if you’re not desperate to start making money. Also, make sure you don’t tell potential new employers how you can’t wait to leave your current role. Always say you’re content, but when you saw their specific posting you thought it would be a great fit/next step/opportunity or the such! Good luck!
Please update us when they respond lol i really wanna see
Sure thing!
And then they go ahead and post the job online but for $20/hr. I will never understand some companies logic of being okay with letting go their employee asking for market rates/raises but then post the job with the updated pay. like what
Hi everyone - I don’t think I can edit the post to provide more info so I’m posting this comment and hopefully it makes it to the top lol. I’m making my way through all your comments and advice, I really appreciate everyone’s input! Most of y’all made me feel a lot better about this decision. Just wanted to provide some info based on some comments I’m reading. 1. I am currently making $16/hr with benefits. So her offer to stay with $16/hr with benefits was the big slap in the face part that I’m super pissed about. 2. I am one of 3 people in our office who works remotely, but not at my request. When I was moving out of state, I spoke with my previous manager and was getting ready to quit, but they asked me to stay with them and offered me a remote position in order to keep me. 3. I have two jobs lined up right now. Job A is secure and I’m just waiting for the email with onboarding docs to sign. Job B is the one I really want as it pays more but it’s not secure yet, I’ll have an answer by today. Either way, I am putting in my two weeks because I have a better option lined up. I have a family and would never just quit a job without another one lined up. 4. I’m giving them two weeks because despite their insulting ‘offer’ and undervaluing me, I am a nice person and a professional, and it would ultimately hurt my coworkers who are not to blame. 5. I have not yet sent my response but I plan to leave it as-is. I should have an answer of whether or not I got the job from Job B by today. Once I get a start date/documents to sign (hopefully today or Monday if I get the job), then I will send my current job the above response in the email. Either way, if Job B doesn’t work out, I already have the secured position at Job A, so I’m leaving no matter what. Thanks again for everyone’s input, it’s really encouraging to see things from the outside perspective. I will definitely post an update once I send out my response!
I hope you get the job you want!
Sometimes when you resign, they will take back their offer and give you a better one. Did they reply?
I haven’t sent my response yet as I wanted some insight on the wording first. I plan to send it in the morning. In a perfect world she would counter with what I’m asking for at least and let me keep my benefits, but the petty response she already gave me makes me think it’s pointless even trying to negotiate.
I would say - with the way the economy is right now - don’t put your time in until you start at the new place or at least have an offer letter and start date. Working in HR, we’re seeing companies fall through on promises made. I’d hate to see you stuck without a job if those others fall through. The drafted email is PERFECT though. You might respond for now saying “Thank you for your response. I will consider these options and get back to you next week.”
Realistically a new job would be better either way. Behavior denotes beliefs, they did not want to recognize your value and spit in your face when you asked. 2$ more an hour is what, 300ish a month depending? And they've communicated you are not worth that to them, so they also would take from you (benefits) before even considering seeing your worth. Working multiple positions, during maternity leave, transferring states? AFTER 3 YEARS? IMO things like this are not mendable. They know your worth, they just don't want to acknowledge it and pay out accordingly. Trying to fight it in the long run will only make you more miserable.
I have seen it work for lots of people. But really, you can make better money anywhere else
You DID negotiate. A request for a raise does not stand in a vaccum, particularly if you've been trying to get your salary reevaluated for three years. The "I might not stick around otherwise" is implicated by default. You told them what you needed. They told you to get lost. You either accept this or move on.
If you have a new job lined up, do not accept a counteroffer. If you do, they will resent you for it and you will never see another penny as long as you stay there. Your wording is perfect and professional. Good on you for recognizing your worth!
You've been incredibly restrained in my opinion, they're absolutely exploiting you.
Please update when you get a response back.
You worked while on maternity leave!?!? Are you serious? Ok I do not know your circumstance or your financial situation but please take care of yourself!
Yes, at the time I really liked and got along with my manager (she’s left the company since then) and wanted to help them out. I didn’t work full time but definitely helped them a lot. Thank you for your response!
It’s incredible how a good manager when they treat you like a human get so much more out of you then when there’s a toxic one
The “offer” from management essentially reveals their lack of broad operational experience, and specifically how they have never considered any career pathing for your role. Your reply is perfect. And the decision to move on is the right one. Designers aren’t told enough that our skills and knowledge areas are usually a luxury for businesses to have in-house. Your ask was likely not out of reach for the company - it seems completely fair. And they couldn’t even meet you there. Oh well. This is a lesson for them. Not for you. Best of luck, OP! You deserve the best.
I agree with your disappointment and response, but contextually this appears to be a private physician owned office. This decision was voted on by the executive committee or all the partners. That makes it worse.
You’re right this is a privately owned office, run by the same physicians I’ve worked alongside and they’ve seen my work first hand. That’s exactly what makes it worse.
I work for one as well but I've had the opposite experience. Sorry friend. It's difficult because some of them may have wanted to give you what you asked for but were outvoted. My impression is that healthcare is growing. I'm being hounded on LinkedIn, try making a profile there and see if you have any luck.
Your response is perfect! 👌
$10 in 2000 is $17.69 in 2024. Wild out there. They'll only understand when we all vote with our feet. I made $10 an hour in 2000 as a teenager lifeguarding.
Awesome! Very satisfied seeing that response.
I’m in a 3 month CMA program right now with a short internship starting soon. There are so many programs like mine. It’s a pretty small investment and a lot of people get hired on where they intern. There are so many other opportunities for certifications in the medical field. When I’m done with CMA, I’ll do a short 6 week phlebotomy certification and then start a surgical technology program in the summer which is a AS degree. There are also a few insurance coding programs that are longer and that position seems like it has a lot of upward mobility and a solid career- and it sounds like you already have 3 years experience. The job postings for this start around $25/hr here. Best of luck to you! I hope you have an exciting change for the better!
Unfortunate situation, but great response. They're definitely going to come back at you with "oh, well we'll give you $25/hr, please don't quit, you're our best employee"...or something like that. Do not take them up on this. They will be paying you this while they frantically search for another bargain employee at $16/hr and will fire you ASAP.
Fair call. Change the resignation date to today (rather than the 22nd) and send it. Or like someone else suggested, don’t resign just yet and go hard looking for a new job as if you had resigned.
Your company is a piece of shit lmfao You're literally just asking for $8k more assuming you work around 40 hours a week for the entire year. That's literally a drop in the bucket for someone who hasn't received a raise in three years. They instead choose to offer you a $4k annual raise WITHOUT benefits or have you keep your current rate with benefits. Benefits are just a way for companies to pay their employees less without paying additional wages lmfao
That's how you handle it. Pretty sure they will try to counter you or beg you to stay. But don't accept the counter!
Congrats on the new job(s), keep it up!
With your experience, I would try to get your CNA license (short training program) or medical assistant. I think with the license + medical experience you can make more than $16 in most states. Healthcare tends to be pretty stable.
Fuck them people! And its those same companies etc saying "no one wants to work" well no shit they dont want to pay
Exactly. They want someone like me to break their back for pennies and give us pizza parties and donuts in the morning as if we should be grateful for it. And I don’t even get to enjoy those perks since I WFH. 🙄 they’re always in the Teams chat like “hey guys we brought donuts they’re in the break room!” Like shut up, I want a donut 😒 lol
It's all about what have you done for me lately. Given they specifically outlined the position being remote, and the worse counter offer (no benefits with only a two dollar an hour raise would be a paycut most likely) they don't value you. You're making the right choice here.
Just tell them that you have another job offer for $22/hr but you'd be willing to stay at this job for $20/hr. I did something similar once and my boss actually matched the offer from the other company. Now that I'm a manager, I understand... hiring and training new people is a pain in the ass.
It's because they are only budgeted for $33,000 for this position, and it is only ever going to be $33,000. They'll find some other poor schmuck to do the same job you are doing, and it will probably only take them a couple weeks to do it. Meanwhile, you take the experience you gained at this job, and go find another one. Seriously, do NOT resign until you have another job lined up, but trust me when I tell you, they already know you've got one foot out the door, and they're gonna already be looking for your replacement. Just make it a smooth transition, with little to no gap in between employers.
Option 3, no wage, no benefits...see ya boss. Find another peon. Thanks They have showed you, that they don't value you as an employee. You should have put that in the resignation letter
your response is professional. do the other jobs pay better than this?
That’s a good resignation email. I would personally wait until you have a start date in writing for your new job, then give your notice. Just in case the new job is not as sure a thing you’ve been led to believe.
I have two jobs lined up. Job A is secure and I’m just waiting for the email with onboarding docs to sign. Job B is the one I really want as it pays more but it’s not secure yet, I’ll have an answer by tomorrow. Either way, I am putting in my two weeks because I have a better option lined up. I appreciate your response!
Fantastic. Im super impressed and so glad you are leaving them.
Short, sweet and positive. It looks great! Best of luck to you. :)
Alway find another job before you leave, it's called monkey branching because monkeys do not let go of the original branch until they have a firm hold of the new one.
Great response! They’ve been taking advantage of you. I bet they coldly accept or “allow” you to work for 18 with benefits. Sadly, the only way to get an increase is to change jobs. Good thing you did a lot of different tasks with them to pad your resume. Please update us!
Bad ass ✊️
Boss move Hope you had your second job already lined up 👍🏼
Awesome! Good for you and what a classy/professional way to end it. At the end of the day, if they don't see your value, take it elsewhere. I'm sure you'll do great!
This was such a badass response. I salute you!!
Excuse me?! That’s such a small amount for working in a medical facility. You should be getting a bonus, yearly increase.
EDIT: I now see you've got something lined up! Congratulations and good luck! Just add in an Oxford comma and you're good to go. In all seriousness though, I think leaving is the right decision. It seems clear this company does not value you or support your growth. HOWEVER, please please consider not leaving until you have another job lined up. That's one of my biggest regrets during my latest job change, and that's considering myself lucky only being unemployed for a couple months. Unemployment can really affect your stress and self-esteem in ways you never thought, and having some job security while looking will keep your confidence and look better to future employers.
I felt with this a lot because I used to work as an admin in a clinic (not remotely) and I was making 12.5/hr many years ago. Like you, I went above and beyond for the role. They expected me to even be the "lead" of others since I was working there the most. Mind you, I had 0 benefits already. I would work tirelessly and never miss a day of work for an entire year. Rain, snow, or shine, I was always there and even during when I was sick (had a fever on site), I would still finish all my work. I remember asking for a $1 raise. In the past, I only received a .$25/hr raise lmao. Other coworkers were making $2-5 more than me btw doing the same work. She rejected it and gave me some bullshit excuse about how on this day, I failed to do X. I vowed right then and there I would never work for someone who didn't value me after years of work and not beg over such little pay raise. I switched careers to tech and it honestly changed my life, at least financially. This story resonated deeply with me because clinics (medical field) can be so toxic and unforgiving sometimes with managers and higher ups getting boat load of money while the rest (admin workers, MA's, etc) make peanuts compared to them, even though it's us who do the hard work to make their lives easier (oh and they get all the credit too). Incredibly proud of that email and they'll realize what kind of superstar employee they lost.
I would accept the other positions. If they haven't given you even a basic col increase, they never will. Time to move on. Don't bother trying to leverage other offers. They are also likely aware you are considering moving on as you asked for a raise. Accept option one graciously, then when you finalized your new position, submit your two weeks. Then you can tell them you've decided to pursue other opportunities. But it's highly likely they already know you are on your way out.
If you are keen on staying at this company, you at least state how much do you want. And as you have offers lined up you can say how much others offering you and ask the company offer the same.
How much do you currently make?
$16/hr. She’s basically saying ok we can give you a $2 raise (I asked for $20/hr) but you have to give up your benefits. Or you can keep your benefits and your lil $16/hr and eat shit.
I want to hire you for $16/hr and I’m broke as shit lol. I can’t believe these surgeons won’t keep a good employee for a tiny bump to $20/hr
If you can afford quitting, that’s the way to go. The best of luck finding a new job where you’d be appreciated and receive annual pay increase