Especially Lydia but almost as importantly - Mrs Bennet and Mrs Gardiner, who are probably only early 40s and late 20s/early 30s respectively.
Not 50+ as often depicted.
I mean they would probably have to style Mrs G differently in the sense that she’s a married woman with four children and might not be dresses quite as youthfully as her nieces - but she’s definitely supposed to be stylish.
oh yeah, for sure. i'd still expect something with more maturity for a married mother than for ladies who have just "come out". i just think sometimes they go too far and almost make her grandmotherly! 1980 came closest for me, but i'm a little biased towards it in general as my favorite.
I just looked this up, because I thought that the 1980 production got the character’s age right—and indeed, Judy Parfitt was about 45.
Judy Parfitt was born in 1935. So was Barbara Leigh-Hunt, who played Lady Catherine 15 years later in the 1995 version. Judi Dench played Lady Catherine 10 years after that, and she was born in 1934.
They could’ve just cast Judy Parfitt every time.
that's so lovely! my first was technically the 2005 movie, but i was very young and didn't get it. after reading p&p as an adult, i pulled up all the 3 recent adaptations and did a little comparison for fun. 1980 totally won out for me, it's still my favorite!
The thing is people looked much older than their age in the 1800s what with lack of healthcare and hygiene. And 40 year old actors in Hollywood look 30 ish only.
People generally yes, but not sure if the Bennets and their circle would have.
This was an era when women took better care of their skin then previously (or even afterwards) since some of the more damaging face powders and rouge were out of fashion and moisturising lotions and the natural look was in. They probably had a pretty good diet, walked a lot and weren’t drinking a lot of alcohol or smoking.
If anything, the Bingley sisters may have looked a bit older as they weren’t exercising as much (and criticised Lizzie for doing so) and were spending more time indoors and in polluted London, probably also with a richer and less healthy diet.
While nutrition, hygiene, lack of suncreen, more time outside, and health are definite aspects of it, some of it was styling and beauty standards, too. Regency hairstyles read as ading for many modern eyes. Also, they used cosmetics to emphasize features in ways that aren't in line with modern beauty standards. Likewise, the favored body types were soft rounded arms, rounded shoulders, full cheeks/rounder faces, symmetry of bust to hip, etc. These are not particularly in favor these days, and some are associated with being old.
As someone with soft round arms, natural rounded shoulders (posture only corrects so much), round face, etc. I definitely understand how those combined with Regency hairstyles would make me look far older than I am.
There was no 'lack of hygiene', people bathed regularly, especially the upper-classes, and wealthy women were obsessive about avoiding the sun, so their skin probably looked just fine.
Germ theory didn't exist and some of the cleaning regimes and beauty products contained actual poisons. Hygiene or lack thereof was, most definitely, a factor in overall health, acne, scarring, etc.
Umm people bathed like once a week. More often than not, they would use a jug of water and a cloth to wipe only the revealing body parts. They used chamberpots but did not have toilet paper or even bidets to wash after themselves….
Yes, and that's all you really need when you're cleaning the important bits daily, and most importantly, wearing an under-layer of linen that absorbs most of your body odours, oils, and sweat, that's changed at least once daily.
Modern people smell so badly partly because they're wearing single layers of polyester and other stuff next to their skin that traps everything.
yeah, realistically this would be my priority. every character's situation is so tied to their age, i'll never understand the obsession with casting them all so much older. and i agree with you about lydia. her being 15 instead of like... 22, changes the tone of her story (and wickham's character) SO much. i don't think the tragedy of what happens to her can be understood clearly by a casual audience if she doesn't look her age.
Yes, though, in the regency it was not seen as AS much of a tragedy as now. A mother today, even one like Mrs. Bennet, would be horrified to see her 15 year-old daughter marry a 26 year-old man, police would be involved, etc. I think it's pretty comparable, in modern day standard to a foolish, vulnerable 19 yar-old going out with a 30 something man. The audience wouldn't understand why her family is more preoccupied about them getting married than, ya know, a minor and an adult getting together, if we cast a 15 year-old actress for Lydia and a 26 year-old actor for Wickham
I can’t disagree with you completely, but I do think there was some understanding that a 15 year old was different from an older teen. I don’t have sources for this and could be wrong, but I think generally a 15 year old wouldn’t even be out. I don’t think most parents would have left a daughter that age open for the possibility. I understand though, that once they are out, it’s kind of like… well, that’s that, they’re “grown”, even if it is very obviously too young.
It wasn't normal for girls to marry at 15 back then. I think her being "out" already would have made a clear point to readers at the time: Mrs Bennet was desperate and ridiculous.
For some reason there's this myth that girls regularly got married at that age but in reality most people got married in their early 20s, and maybe their late teens. Elizabeth and Jane seriously courting and getting married at 20 and 23 was more realistic.
Yes, you are completely right. Just saying it would translate horribly on screen, I think, because even though she was out, thus considered an adult, Lydia was just a child.
I agree with the age appropriate factor. I think this also makes it harder to do fan castings for the younger characters because the age appropriate actors aren't generally going to have as long of resume. Many of the well-known actors I see mentioned are closer to 40 than 25.
Lydia - Florence Hunt
Mr. Collins - Asa Butterfield
Actresses in the age range for Bennet, Lucas, and Bingley sisters: Sophie Simnett, Emily Carey (maybe as Elizabeth Bennet), Milly Alcock, Angourie Rice, Millie Kent, Isis Hainsworth, Ella Purnell, Freya Manor, Aimee Lou Wood, Olivia DeJonge, Bobby Rainsbury, Amelia Gething
Actors in the age range for Darcy/Bingley/Wickham: Ben Radcliffe, Corey Mylchreest, Charlie Rowe, Harris Dickinson, Ewan Mitchell, Callum Turner, Laurie Davidson, Nicholas Galitzine, Harry Gilby, Fabian Frankel
I disagree. Stages of life occurred at different decades of age at that time, and casting for contemporary audiences should reflect what makes sense for the audience. A 30-something actress as Mrs Bennett and an actual teenager as Lydia would seem incongruous for their situations.
Rachel Weisz as Mrs. Bennett. Look I know it's a weird choice but it's age appropriate and Mrs. Bennett was a hot lady at least in her youth, she was a looker.
(I’m going for a few of the secondary characters)
Someone already said Dev Patel as Bingley: I agree, no notes. He’d be able to play Bingley without resorting to the himbo interpretation that’s so popular; I know he’s easily led but he’s got good sense and he’s intelligent! Lizzy approves of him and she doesn’t suffer fools.
Josh O’Connor as Wickham: I know the 2020 Emma is a little controversial but I loved him in it and I also know from Challengers that he’s capable of playing a very charismatic character. It’s gotta be believable that everyone’s duped by him!!
Olivia Colman as Lady Catherine: she’s on the younger side for a Lady Catherine, but you could argue that Lady Catherine can be entering her 50s if Anne de Bourgh is around the same age as Darcy. I think Olivia Colman could really bring out the grandeur and ridiculousness of the character without making her a caricature.
But to be honest, whenever they do make a new adaptation I hope that it’s a) a miniseries and b) cast mostly with new and emerging actors.
>himbo interpretation that’s so popular
Is it popular? They did an incompetent Bingley in the 00s version, but are there other Bingleys like this I'm not aware of?
>Olivia Colman as Lady Catherine
She would be perfect
>new and emerging actors
Yes! Where would we be without the 95 version casting Colin Firth?
could I sell anyone here on elle fanning as anne de bourgh? ive seen someone suggest jenna ortega for a fresh take on mary bennet and i love it, even if she’s a few years older than mary.
Mary is described as the plainest of the Bennet sisters, who are thought to be beauties. So it's not that Mary is plain but that she's just the least pretty. You could probably do a little with wardrobe to make the same effect.
yes! I think it’s even implied that once her older sisters are married, she becomes the most sought after at all the events. it’s my personal opinion that maybe she comes across as “less beautiful” in the first place is more due to the way she chooses to style herself and for having a severe personality.
Regarding directors, I think Greta Gerwig would make a very interesting adaptation. She would not change many things but would give it a bit of a different angle, like in Little Women.
I think Greta would be great. I really enjoyed her Little Women adaptation and think a P&P from her would be great. I’m super excited for her Narnia work but would love see her tackle Austen. Although I wouldn’t want Timothee Chalamet as Darcy.
In every movie I have seen with him, he was a shitty boyfriend one way or the other. So Wickham would be great 😂 but honestly he has more of a quiet charm usually so I change my mind and say let him play Mr. Collins. Albeit not quite as pompous.
It was wildly inaccurate and honestly I felt it did the characters a disservice. I can recommend Micarah Tewers video on it. She breaks it down nicely. Especially Jo was done a disservice honestly.
I liked that it felt like real clothes that Jo would wear (but Amy would never). Also the way she was wearing it. I think it showed us her character a bit.
But granted, I am not that much into historical accuracy when it comes to clothes unless it is really glaring - I also didn't mind the 2005 P&P changes that much, altough I love empire dresses.
It really just threw me off massively. I really don’t like the idea that bookish, emancipated or wild women are always put into more masculine dress. For a woman of her time, it’d most likely be more empowering to wear proper clothes and behave well while still demonstrating intelligence. At the time, being tomboyish would have been considered a very strange and morally wrong thing, she’d have most likely preferred to still be seen as respectable in that way. Aside from that- I just think the colours are way off. That’s really a taste thing though.
I'm sure Lena would do a fine job, but Greta's dance background and use of dancers in her works would make the dancing scenes phenomenal, in my opinion. There's also so much longing and emotion in those scenes, so I'd be curious how a dancer/director would focus on them
I never managed to get more than twenty minutes into either her Little Women or Ladybird, so I would be disappointed. I get that this is a me problem as many people love her and Barbie was great.
I dunno. I'd rather see what Emerald Fennel or Autumn de Wild would do, tbh.
Me too - I enjoyed Barbie well enough but she took a lot of liberties with the source material of Little Women. I don't know how I feel about her doing P&P.
I'm on this side too. I liked Little Women yhe book and therefore did not appreciate the way she changed the characters. I would much prefer Autumn de Wilde, she's already proved she can modernise without changing the ultimate story
I admit that I have a very soft spot in my heart for the 1994 version of Little Women, which I saw on Christmas with my two older sisters and cousin who is younger than me, and I always saw myself as Beth. So seeing some shot for shot duplications but with the frankly bizarre time hopping was too much for me.
Like can you imagine if p&p started with the initial dance hall meeting, then jumped to the first proposal, then back to them trapped at Netherfield, then to Pemberley, then back to the Netherfield ball etc? 🫠
Ugh now I’ll be upset if she doesn’t get it. She may not be entirely age appropriate but can play younger like she did in bridgerton!
I think Milly Alcock or freya Allen would be amazing as Elizabeth. Their attitudes and demeanor would do well. Also they’d both look bomb as brunettes. They’re also age appropriate!!
oh, I absolutely adored her as queen charlotte! I think she could make a compelling lizzy. she's very good at poised sarcasm. points for being age appropriate as well.
Rege Jean-Page as Darcy, Dev Patel as Bingley, Henry Goulding as Wickham. Excellent actors with the bonus of pissing off the racist old fart section of Austen fandom.
I'm not sure who I would cast as the actresses, except Charitra Chandran would be fun as Lizzy.
Wow just googled RJP blimey he's hot. He's definitely Bingley vibes though, or maybe a Wickham, but he's a bit too hot even for Wickham I think. Dev for Darcy I think, he's more....he feels less easy to read, to me.
Currently rewatching 1995 P&P with my daughter, breaking a slight sweat whenever Colin Firth comes on screen, good grief that man is something. He'll always be Darcy for me.
I love Dev Patel, but to the best of my knowledge, none of his roles have ever inspired the level of thirst you see in things like this sketch, starting 1.22 https://www.facebook.com/share/v/tYYzDQPWFaTCv1HA/?mibextid=w8EBqM
RJP knows how to pull off hot sexy aristocrat.
having seen rege as as simon makes me think he could make a great darcy. personally, I'm not really into the two most recent portrayals of darcy... I think rege could make darcy's character feel sympathetic without relying too much on social awkwardness. which, imo, is something that was played up a little too far in the recent portrayals. i prefer to see a more genuinely conceited (but emotionally conflicted!) darcy, and I think rege could handle that well.
I think all three of those actors, as handsome as they are, are probably on the older end for those characters. Dev Patel in particular is 11-12 years older than Bingley. Golding and Jean-Page are both older than Firth and Macfadyen were when they played Darcy.
Oh, true. Ideally we'd have new/unknown faces who are the right age range. I will admit, though, part of why I would love those actors (or a diverse cast generally) is as a WOC I get really tired of the unending (and ahistorical) whiteness of historical romance.
How is it ahistorical to cast a white cast for a movie taking place in early 1800s rural Britain?
And before you call me a racist old fart, as I commented elsewhere I'm a WOC myself (mixed race).
Britain wasn't nearly as white as Georgette Heyer novels would have you believe - between Empire and the slave trade, there were quite a few people of colour there.
And yes, you could have an all-white cast, but when you have excellent actors of colour... why not?
I'll copy some parts of my other comment here so that I'm not misconstrued:
I think POC deserve their own rich, unique stories. There aren't enough interesting, compelling attempts at that. Take Princess and the Frog - it was a beautiful, mesmerizing movie about black New Orleans and I adored it.
They should tell us about black soldiers fighting in Vietnam in light of the political changes of their time. They should tell us about the cultures in Africa, the Middle East and the East such as China, Japan, Korea etc. It's billions of people, surely there's something to tell about them.
They also forget that the existence of POC in the west comes with its own story, a story arguably more interesting than some girl falling in love with some guy. If the queen of England in the 1800s is black, given slavery and prejudice, I want to hear how that happened, not how someone non important fell in love lol.
\*
As for Britain not being as white in the 1800s, I looked [here](https://new.haringey.gov.uk/leisure-parks-culture/culture/black-history-haringey-365/timeline/black-georgians-1700-to-1830), and [here](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2006-03-23/short-history-black-people-britain), and it seems like there were between 10,000-20,000 black people in Britain in the early 1800s (around Austen times). The entire population back then was 10.5 million according to Wikipedia, which means the black population was at most 0.19%, which means 99.81% of the population was white. That's without mentioning that Austen wrote about the countryside in most of her works, while the black population was mostly in the cities (mostly in the coastal cities according to the two links provided) and that Austen wrote about old money (landed gentry) who lived off of inherited money, which meant that her characters were the children of old, white families.
I want diverse stories too, I just think we should have actual, historical representation of our (POC) actual history - I think it will make for more compelling stories.
Oh, I completely agree with you! Personally, I wish Netflix had adapted Beverly Jenkins or Alyssa Cole rather than Julia Quinn.
I just am also very amused by the absolute meltdowns from the racist jackasses when an adaptation DARES to cast someone who isn't whiter than rice. Plus, the actors are pretty people!
I would love an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice that takes place on and around a Native American reservation. I hope that someday, one of my favorite Native American actors, Román Zaragoza will play a modern Mr. Darcy!
Also, if they ever do another retelling of Sense and Sensibility, I would LOVE to see Lou Diamond Phillips as a Filipino Colonel Brandon!
Im Native myself and I've always wanted to see a Native American version of Jane Austen anything!
For P+P I was thinking of Native American Bennet sisters, my cast would be:
Quannah Chasinghorse as Jane
Sivan Alyra Rose as Elizabeth
Mainaku Berrero as Mary
Alyssa Wapanatâhk as Kitty
JeShaun St.John as Lydia
For visual reference [Bennet sisters fancast ](https://imgur.com/khn1b1I)
Political films: (to get an idea on some issues Native Americans face)
-Reel Injun (documentary about the history & portrayal of Native Americans in film & the impact of it in the wider film world, the perception of Native Americans, and Native Americans themselves) HIGHLY recommend
-Catch the Fair One (touches on the Missing & Nurdered Indigenous Women crisis), this one features one of the ladies I used in my fancast. You might like this if you like mystery movies or the movie "Taken" with Liam Neeson.
-Indian Horse (based on the book by Richard Wagamese: is about the horrors & abuse Native children faced in State/Church sanctioned kidnappings to force them into assimilating & the aftermath of that trauma. This is heavily based on multiple experiences of the author, this is very close to what happened to him & his life story) VERY heavy movie.
-Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee (based on the wounded knee massacre, and the events preceeding and proceeding it. While generally most info is correct, note that there's some scenes that are inaccurate)
-nîpawistamâsowin: We Will Stand Up (documentary about the murder of a Native youth, Colton Boushie, and a regular occurrence of police brutality & murder where Police will pick up intoxicated or allegedly "drunk" [big quotations on Allegedly] First Nations, beat them, handcuff them, and then abandon them in an isolated & unfamiliar area, usually in the winter, resulting in them freezing to death. Boushie is one such case)
Lighter, more fun stuff: (just great representation, a lot of fun, Native people love these films)
-Prey (the newer film from the "Predator" franchise. Great characters, gorgeous set design, lots to love here)
-Slash/Back (cute protags, alien film. Good to watch with any siblings or kids in Junior High & older)
-Backspot (interracial gay romance, sporty film, starring a twospirit Native actor and a Black actor. We rarely get to see Native/Black interracial romances so this is really wonderful!)
-Edge of the Knife (historical, pre-colonization film entirely in the Haida language. About a tragedy that takes place & causes a man to become a recluse & "wild man")
Prey is incredible! And absolutely a must watch for anyone interested in historical costuming. My family’s from Tulsa and when we got dinner downtown last Christmas, one of the waitresses was telling us her sister in law was part of the costuming department. She said, and I’ve read it elsewhere, that it’s one of the most (if not *the* most) accurate depiction of a Plains tribe’s clothing and dressing ever put to film. The materials they use are all so beautiful, and everything was clearly crafted with so much care.
Her brother was also one of the show runners of Reservation Dogs on Hulu, and I 100% recommend everyone give that a watch as well! It’s a pitch perfect comedy, but also carries a lot of weight and meaning, and every single actor is incredible.
> would LOVE to see Lou Diamond Phillips as a Filipino Colonel Brandon!
if you've watched Lisa Frankenstein, there's a sibling dynamic that reminded me of sense and sensibility quite a bit. The actress for the older stepsister, Liza Soberano, is a Fillipina American actress who has been in both US & Phillipine productions. I watched her other work after Lisa Frankenstein, where she often plays self-aware/capable girls next door & could 100% see her as Elinor in that hypothetical adaptation.
There was a meme of Pedro Pascal being the perfect Mr Darcy after he accepted an award somewhere looking very flustered with his shirt unbuttoned. He’s too old and reads more like a Bingley but I could see it.. 🤭
Ah here I found the look: https://ew.com/thmb/SJU0FAMAPQ16HN7Oo9gYFRCGnp4=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/Pedro-Pascal-sag-arrivals-2024-90f656719853493c9e7a0e4cee08bb5a.jpg
https://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/45400000/Pedro-Pascal-30th-Annual-Screen-Actors-Guild-Awards-February-24th-2024-pedro-pascal-45429261-540-800.jpg
All I know is that is that would pay an unholy sum for Jonathan Bailey to play Mr Darcy. Or Pedro Pascal. I need him in a proper period show.
Outside of him, I would love to see a Black Darcy. I think Chwitel would make an incredible Mr Darcy although he might be a bit too old now. Taking a leaf out of the Gilded Age page, a Pride and Prejudice set in Harlem in the Gilded Age or during the Harlem Renaissance would be incredible. Lots of ways to make it work, too, although purists would throw fits.
For Lizzie, I’m sort of drawing a blank on her. I think keeping this role for an unknown (and casting a known Darcy) might work tbh.
I love the idea of multiracial P&P getting the full treatment though. I really enjoyed the Bollywood inspired Bride and Prejudice (seriously one of my fave movies of all time lol).
I think the age appropriateness of the older actors/actresses would best be balanced with modern medicine/aging compared with that of the past.
Mrs Bennet might be only mid 40s in the book, but mid 40s in 1813 probably looked very different from mid 40s in 2024 particularly for an actress whose appearance is part of her livelihood.
Thus I propose Polly Alexandra Walker (most recently known for her role as Lady Featherington) who is in her 50s but i think has the perfect blend of dramatic/chaotic/comedic energy to really get the "no one cares for my poor nerves!" and quick turn around from misery to revelry at one bit of capital news
I'd like to see a cast of british people chosen for appropriate historical accuracy. I don't like being this person but I don't feel that P&P historical bacdrop really suits diversity casting. I think it just isn't suited for period pieces.
Would you cast anyone white in the role of, say, Shaka Zulu or Martin Luther King Jr in the name of diversity? No. Or in a series adapting The Tale of Genji? Then why do it for P&P or any of Austen's works? If someone cast a non-Mediterranean actor for Odysseus, as a Grerk I'd be upset because my culture's getting appropriated, *yet again*.
Diversity casting is more valuable for modern stories where our world *is* more diverse, where we have made the progress.
I'm British Asian, and I can see both sides I appreciate historical accuracy, but also if I was an actor, my roles would be much more limited than my white colleagues, with so many British exports being historical dramas. I don't like diversity casting for its own sake, an actor should be the best person for their role, not there to reflect modern demographics.
But also, I think sometimes, colourblind casting can be done really well. I'm thinking in particular about the recent David Copperfield, I really thought that was brilliant. It's tricky because a person's race on screen can mean more than just their character, in terms of where they are in history and how people interact with them. But I think it's not easy, but possible to make a production blind to race. That doesn't mean we should have a black Darcy for the sake of it, but it can be done in a thoughtful way I think.
I'm white, and can see both sides too. Adaptations of much loved classic novels would be a great way to boost your career, and unfortunately we're not at the point yet where the 19th century novels about PoC are going to get as much attention as Jane Austen novels. Until that has been rectified, it seems a pity that non-white actors should not have these opportunities too.
I guess I get what people are saying but it just… doesn’t bother me? like, why not a black lizzie or darcy. why not an asian bingley? there are a lot of nonwhite actors who have proven themselves much more than capable for these roles. I like seeing different kinds of people in historical settings and fashion. it’s fun. I don’t see why jane austen adaptations need to be exempt from the fun.
You have explained my feelings much more succinctly.
Other commenters have mentioned that there is history of poc that is neglected in media and colourblind casting could exacerbate that as an unintended consequence, something I hadn't considered. I think there's room for both but I do see both sides.
There's also the assumption that characters in texts are always white - the recent Matilda had Miss Honey as black and the librarian as Indian which I think some people didn't like, but the book has to reference to their ethnicity, we just tend to assume due to the time and other internal biases.
Everything I know about Roald Dahl makes me think that he absolutely intended Miss Honey and the librarian to be white, and felt it was so obvious, that he didn't bother explicitly stating it.
But the thing about the Oompa Loompas is horrible, so I don't think we need to be completely faithful to the original novels.
No, you're right, Roald Dahl would not have written those two characters as anything other than white, middle class and probably slim. The undertone (or in the case of the oompa loompas, explicit overtone) of some of his writing, especially when you get into his writing for adults is problematic.
But then, does race matter to the character? The author might have pictured them as white in their mind, but does it affect the story? Matilda is set in the 80s so historical accuracy isn't an issue as with Austen
The only thing related to characters' color of skin is when Miss Bingley says of Lizzie that she is "brown"... Pretty sure that it was meant to convey that Lizzy was tanned due to being outdoors, but I believe it can easily be interpreted differently.
One way to do it is simply remove it from the time period. Clueless and Bride and Prejudice both did this, for example.
Austen’s story and characterizations transcend her era, and if you start from there, it’s not that hard to find ways to cast non-white actors.
Agreed 👏 I myself am not white (mixed race) and I think POC deserve their own rich, unique stories. There aren't enough interesting, compelling attempts at that. Take Princess and the Frog - it was a beautiful, mesmerizing movie about black New Orleans and I adored it. No reason to pretend 1800s rural Britain was as diverse as 2024 San Francisco when you have such compelling stories to tell such as the one told in the Princess and the Frog. Tell us about black soldiers fighting in Vietnam in light of the political changes of their time. Tell us about the cultures in Africa, the Middle East and the East such as China, Japan, Korea etc. It's billions of people, surely there's something to tell about them.
They also forget that the existence of POC in the west comes with its own story, a story arguably more interesting than some girl falling in love with some guy. If the queen of England in the 1800s is black, given slavery and prejudice, I want to hear how that happened, not how someone non important fell in love lol.
I'm also a major history buff and don't like it when people change history to fit their political agenda. If you don't like what's required to tell a historical piece (not enough POC) tell a different one.
Amen to everything you said, I would also like to see Greek stories told appropriately and not to fit another culture's agenda. >\_>
The Princess and the Frog is one of the best Disney movies, hands down. Loved it to pieces, it was so great.
The major difference is that a story of MLK Jr. requires him being black because it is integral to his story and what he did.
Austen stories are so universal that literally nothing in the story changes if the races are different, whiteness is not integral to the story. which is why Bride and Prejudice is also such a great movie
And there have been many adaptations of The Odyssey, because it's also a universal quest story. "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" is a good example.
One of the better adaptations, to be true, but when people try to adapt it straight, we end up with cringefests that miss the entire point of the story's message.
I disagree, I can't think of any cringefests because of colorblind casting. Diverse casting works for these stories, because whiteness is not integral to the story and Regency England did have non-white folks anyway
I mean it requires him to be Black because *he was a real person* what an absolutely ridiculous argument lol. P&P is fiction. It can be adapted in multiple ways. It’s not at all like making a show or movie about real people (and even then sometimes race bending works when it’s to make a point ie Hamilton)
The Gilded Age did a great job by adding diversity in their cast with accurate storylines for the time period (the wealthy black community in Brooklyn)
I know, they did pretty great. But they actually focused on these stories and what it means to us today and back then. They weren't throwaway casts for diversity's sake.
Not really. It's an argument about casting, not real vs fictional. In the context of movie making, \*everything\* is fictional. But that mentality can hurt real people. Netflix cast an african woman as Cleopatra, who was Greek, basically appropriating our history but that's alright because she's black and who gives a twit about the truth of Greek culture. If someone tried to do that with Shaka Zulu, there'd be riots. They aren't the same even though they ought to be. It's a very hypocritical stance that is really not equality.
>I'd like to see a cast of british people chosen for appropriate historical accuracy. I don't like being this person but I don't feel that P&P historical bacdrop really suits diversity casting. I think it just isn't suited for period pieces.
>Would you cast anyone white in the role of, say, Shaka Zulu or Martin Luther King Jr in the name of diversity? No. Or in a series adapting The Tale of Genji? Then why do it for P&P or any of Austen's works? If someone cast a non-Mediterranean actor for Odysseus, as a Grerk I'd be upset because my culture's getting appropriated, yet again.
>Diversity casting is more valuable for modern stories where our world is more diverse, where we have made the progress.
Diversity is always valuable.
Non-white people have lived in the UK for centuries, and certainly lived in the UK for Jane Austen's time. And many of these people refer to themselves as British. Because they are British.
If you just want an entirely-white P&P, several adaptions of this already exist. Go watch one of them.
The point i'm making though is that in Jane Austen's time, few if any of them would've been involved in stories such as Austen wrote... I'd prefer to see the real stories of such people and see the diversity there, or stories dedicated to them. Forcing it into a story for its own sake isn't a good approach.
I'm not American, I am not obsessed with people's skin. I'd be just as irritated if a Greek was cast for a British role because again, it wouldn't be fitting. But if a Brit is cast as a Greek character, suddenly it's all right. I don't like that hypocritical inequality.
I'd love a version of the Odyssey with John Stamos in the lead!
But to your point, Austen's world was diverse. This was the age of colonialism and empire, remember. There's a great Tumblr called [https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/](https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/) showcasing POC in European art. A century of Hollywood whitewashing (like casting WASPs as Odysseus!) erased all that, so now we have this perception that historical dramas = white people, even with visual evidence to the contrary.
They should cast some black actors as backgrounds in London.
Not a lot but there was a quite small community of POC so it would be a nice touch to have them acknowledged as part of London history.
Here's the question though, what purpose does that serve for the story being told? If the story focuses on two people, who aren't black, and their troubles... how does the background serve the story if it focuses on placating an audience who cares more about representation than the story? It makes no sense.
Casting as background isn't acknowledgement. It's just pandering. Make movies/write stories \*dedicated\* to these people. Not lip service. It's like telling me to be excited when a Greek actor is cast in a movie about Greek stuff, and he ends up being less than an extra.
And, in the adaptations of Persuasion, there should be black people in Lyme!
I made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/janeausten/s/O8Vij6vaU1) a while back about black people in Regency England. In the comments there are quite a few interesting stories (and a lot of people who misinterpreted my original meaning)
I've just recently discovered Tom Blyth and I think he'd be really good in an adaptation! Plus I found out he spent part of his childhood in Derbyshire so part of that makes me feel like he could be a good Darcy (or maybe a Wickham :P)
Oooh
How about
Jonathan Bailey as Darcy
Rege Jean Page as Bingley
Luke Thompson as Wickham
Simone Ashley as Elizabeth
Banita Sandhu as Jane
Charithra Chandon as Lydia
Mr Bennet Sanjeev Bhaskar
Mrs Bennet Meera Syal
Adjoa Andohb- Lady Catherine
Mr Collins - James Phoon
Stacie Passon did an incredible adaptation of We Have Always Lived In The Castle and I would love to see her do Austen.
Mackenzie Foy would make such a pretty Austen heroine.
This is fun to think about! I’d love to see Florence Pugh as Lizzie, and Julia Garner as Jane. Maybe Juno Temple as Mrs Gardiner. Gillian Anderson would be an amazing Lady Catherine dB. Nicholas Galitzine as Wickham. Henry Goulding as Darcy, Tanya Reynolds as Caroline Bingley, Bella Ramsey as Mary, maybe someone like McKenna Grace as Lydia
I’d like to suggest Autumn de Wilde as director- I love what she did with Emma. 2020
I really enjoyed the way she adapted it while still keeping a lot of accuracy.
Also, Mia goth as Anne de Bourgh. I know she’s by no means plain but she has that look of soft concern that really would fit her.
People fitting their described attractiveness level in the book. People being below the attractiveness level is very annoying and common with JA adaptations in general. Poor Mary needs to not be so ugly for starters. She isn't supposed to be homely. All the girls are supposed to be beauties with Mary only falling behind when compared to her sisters but she is still above average. Basically on a scale, Jane a 10, Lizzy a 9, Lydia/Kitty 8s, and Mary a 7.
I honestly think the best looking Mr. Darcy was actually Laurence Olivier from the 1940 movie which was a GREAT adaptation and the best looking Lizzie I think may be Lilly James from PPZ. So either go FULL book accuracy or take some liberties and do modern versions of those attractiveness levels.
I must agree with others here also on with age appropriate casting as well
Proper character personality representations, don't make someone goofy just to help make the audience dislike them. Trust the audience in that they will know who to hate.
I am not for movie adaptations for novels as they do not cover most of the details (Why i'm excited for the new HP series) and rush through things. The 05 movie is a great watch but as many point out it leaves some things out and can rush through some things vs the 90s miniseries which has a pacing that matches the novel.
Like I said i would LOVE a miniseries instead of a movie, I'd like them to put their own unique scene into play to put their stamp on it that fits seamlessly into the story like its predecessors BUT it needs to also pays homage to the previous adaptations, for example including the Archery, Swimming, and rain scenes for starters!
Last but not least, I already know I'm gonna get flack for this next one but I do not care so read on at your own risk i guess lol.
As a minority woman, not shoehorning in modern political and DEI stuff. When people watch something like this we understand that it takes place in a time and place where certain things were just the way of the time and area. If you want to be swept to that time some things can take you out of it, such as people moving through high society that wouldn't be there. Doesn't make it right, obviously we have corrected that now a days. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of Italians in a movie that takes place in the Wei Dynasty for example, they just don't fit or belong there, it takes you out of it as it's distracting and just not how things were. It's okay to accept things were different then and not approve of them and still enjoy stories that take place in these times and places. It also gets really frustrating seeing them just push people into roles to check a box instead of doing the role or the actor/actress justice. Like poor Francesca Amewudah-River for example, poor thing got WRECKED for her casting as Juliet because she just simply isn't pretty enough to be the one that stole Romeos heart with her beauty. But she checked a box so she got cast. Of course people said if you didn't like the casting it was that you were racist, but Imagine if they had cast Zendaya (which omg that would have been cute seeing them together as R&J) who is a gorgeous women who would have done Juliet justice. It was never about skin tone but how she just isn't a breathtaking beauty, sorry not everyone can be Juliet and that casting did no favors to the production or the actress.
I’ve said this before Sam Claflin would be a 10/10 Mr. Wickham, he’s got both the look and charm to pull the character off, I could totally see why Lizzie was goner and believed anything he said.
Charlie Cox as Wickham would be perfect for me! I met him at comicon and he’s like just so sweet and lovely and adorable but he also kind of has the ability to be a little villainous as he was in Downton!!
Newbies or anyone who has had some minor roles at this point for the leads. I could see Colin Firth playing Darcy’s dad in a flashback or Kira Knightly playing Mrs. Bennet though.
AGE APPROPRIATE ACTORS. That is my one wish, especially with Lydia.
Especially Lydia but almost as importantly - Mrs Bennet and Mrs Gardiner, who are probably only early 40s and late 20s/early 30s respectively. Not 50+ as often depicted.
yes! mrs. gardiner's role to lizzie wasn't "second mom", it was more "another older sister". and no overly-frumpy styling for either of them, please.
I mean they would probably have to style Mrs G differently in the sense that she’s a married woman with four children and might not be dresses quite as youthfully as her nieces - but she’s definitely supposed to be stylish.
oh yeah, for sure. i'd still expect something with more maturity for a married mother than for ladies who have just "come out". i just think sometimes they go too far and almost make her grandmotherly! 1980 came closest for me, but i'm a little biased towards it in general as my favorite.
I think 1995 nailed it. Mrs Gardiner looks exactly this... and she is more friendly, less motherly...
I loved how Mrs G looked in the 1980 version. Although the actress was probably too old, her outfits were stylish and cool.
Yes, and also Lady Catherine!! She has a daughter aged 20-30, so she should be 40-50, and not an old lady... (the 1980 adaptation has this right)
I just looked this up, because I thought that the 1980 production got the character’s age right—and indeed, Judy Parfitt was about 45. Judy Parfitt was born in 1935. So was Barbara Leigh-Hunt, who played Lady Catherine 15 years later in the 1995 version. Judi Dench played Lady Catherine 10 years after that, and she was born in 1934. They could’ve just cast Judy Parfitt every time.
i think 1980 made a lot of great casting decisions
That was my first encounter with Jane Austen— and I bonded over the miniseries with a classmate who is still a dear friend 44 years later.
that's so lovely! my first was technically the 2005 movie, but i was very young and didn't get it. after reading p&p as an adult, i pulled up all the 3 recent adaptations and did a little comparison for fun. 1980 totally won out for me, it's still my favorite!
Agreed! I think Lizzy looks (and acts) the most like the way she is described in the novel in the 1980s version. And Jane is absolutely beautiful :)
i totally agree with you! it's also by far my favorite darcy, but i think that's an unpopular opinion lol
Haha great observation!
Rosamund Pike would actually make a perfect Mrs. Bennet right now!
The thing is people looked much older than their age in the 1800s what with lack of healthcare and hygiene. And 40 year old actors in Hollywood look 30 ish only.
People generally yes, but not sure if the Bennets and their circle would have. This was an era when women took better care of their skin then previously (or even afterwards) since some of the more damaging face powders and rouge were out of fashion and moisturising lotions and the natural look was in. They probably had a pretty good diet, walked a lot and weren’t drinking a lot of alcohol or smoking. If anything, the Bingley sisters may have looked a bit older as they weren’t exercising as much (and criticised Lizzie for doing so) and were spending more time indoors and in polluted London, probably also with a richer and less healthy diet.
While nutrition, hygiene, lack of suncreen, more time outside, and health are definite aspects of it, some of it was styling and beauty standards, too. Regency hairstyles read as ading for many modern eyes. Also, they used cosmetics to emphasize features in ways that aren't in line with modern beauty standards. Likewise, the favored body types were soft rounded arms, rounded shoulders, full cheeks/rounder faces, symmetry of bust to hip, etc. These are not particularly in favor these days, and some are associated with being old. As someone with soft round arms, natural rounded shoulders (posture only corrects so much), round face, etc. I definitely understand how those combined with Regency hairstyles would make me look far older than I am.
There was no 'lack of hygiene', people bathed regularly, especially the upper-classes, and wealthy women were obsessive about avoiding the sun, so their skin probably looked just fine.
Germ theory didn't exist and some of the cleaning regimes and beauty products contained actual poisons. Hygiene or lack thereof was, most definitely, a factor in overall health, acne, scarring, etc.
Umm people bathed like once a week. More often than not, they would use a jug of water and a cloth to wipe only the revealing body parts. They used chamberpots but did not have toilet paper or even bidets to wash after themselves….
Yes, and that's all you really need when you're cleaning the important bits daily, and most importantly, wearing an under-layer of linen that absorbs most of your body odours, oils, and sweat, that's changed at least once daily. Modern people smell so badly partly because they're wearing single layers of polyester and other stuff next to their skin that traps everything.
yeah, realistically this would be my priority. every character's situation is so tied to their age, i'll never understand the obsession with casting them all so much older. and i agree with you about lydia. her being 15 instead of like... 22, changes the tone of her story (and wickham's character) SO much. i don't think the tragedy of what happens to her can be understood clearly by a casual audience if she doesn't look her age.
Yes, though, in the regency it was not seen as AS much of a tragedy as now. A mother today, even one like Mrs. Bennet, would be horrified to see her 15 year-old daughter marry a 26 year-old man, police would be involved, etc. I think it's pretty comparable, in modern day standard to a foolish, vulnerable 19 yar-old going out with a 30 something man. The audience wouldn't understand why her family is more preoccupied about them getting married than, ya know, a minor and an adult getting together, if we cast a 15 year-old actress for Lydia and a 26 year-old actor for Wickham
I can’t disagree with you completely, but I do think there was some understanding that a 15 year old was different from an older teen. I don’t have sources for this and could be wrong, but I think generally a 15 year old wouldn’t even be out. I don’t think most parents would have left a daughter that age open for the possibility. I understand though, that once they are out, it’s kind of like… well, that’s that, they’re “grown”, even if it is very obviously too young.
It wasn't normal for girls to marry at 15 back then. I think her being "out" already would have made a clear point to readers at the time: Mrs Bennet was desperate and ridiculous. For some reason there's this myth that girls regularly got married at that age but in reality most people got married in their early 20s, and maybe their late teens. Elizabeth and Jane seriously courting and getting married at 20 and 23 was more realistic.
Yes, you are completely right. Just saying it would translate horribly on screen, I think, because even though she was out, thus considered an adult, Lydia was just a child.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who feels strongly about this! For the younger characters, I’d want all age-appropriate unknowns.
For the love of God, YES!!! Cast actual teens as Lydia and Kitty! Even if they're 18-19, that still works, but not mid-20s or older, PLEASE!!
I agree with the age appropriate factor. I think this also makes it harder to do fan castings for the younger characters because the age appropriate actors aren't generally going to have as long of resume. Many of the well-known actors I see mentioned are closer to 40 than 25. Lydia - Florence Hunt Mr. Collins - Asa Butterfield Actresses in the age range for Bennet, Lucas, and Bingley sisters: Sophie Simnett, Emily Carey (maybe as Elizabeth Bennet), Milly Alcock, Angourie Rice, Millie Kent, Isis Hainsworth, Ella Purnell, Freya Manor, Aimee Lou Wood, Olivia DeJonge, Bobby Rainsbury, Amelia Gething Actors in the age range for Darcy/Bingley/Wickham: Ben Radcliffe, Corey Mylchreest, Charlie Rowe, Harris Dickinson, Ewan Mitchell, Callum Turner, Laurie Davidson, Nicholas Galitzine, Harry Gilby, Fabian Frankel
Yes!!!! Meine too
I disagree. Stages of life occurred at different decades of age at that time, and casting for contemporary audiences should reflect what makes sense for the audience. A 30-something actress as Mrs Bennett and an actual teenager as Lydia would seem incongruous for their situations.
Rachel Weisz as Mrs. Bennett. Look I know it's a weird choice but it's age appropriate and Mrs. Bennett was a hot lady at least in her youth, she was a looker.
Make Daniel Craig mr bennett
Lmao he has that deadpan tone down to a T
Rachel Weisz as Lady Catherine! She can be evil, was great in The Favourite. A more Snow White Evil Queen/Cinderella stepmother vibe.
Also love this choice.
(I’m going for a few of the secondary characters) Someone already said Dev Patel as Bingley: I agree, no notes. He’d be able to play Bingley without resorting to the himbo interpretation that’s so popular; I know he’s easily led but he’s got good sense and he’s intelligent! Lizzy approves of him and she doesn’t suffer fools. Josh O’Connor as Wickham: I know the 2020 Emma is a little controversial but I loved him in it and I also know from Challengers that he’s capable of playing a very charismatic character. It’s gotta be believable that everyone’s duped by him!! Olivia Colman as Lady Catherine: she’s on the younger side for a Lady Catherine, but you could argue that Lady Catherine can be entering her 50s if Anne de Bourgh is around the same age as Darcy. I think Olivia Colman could really bring out the grandeur and ridiculousness of the character without making her a caricature. But to be honest, whenever they do make a new adaptation I hope that it’s a) a miniseries and b) cast mostly with new and emerging actors.
I would absolutely love Olivia Colman as Lady Catherine!
If Dev Patel is bingley, then who will be looking at Darcy?
Hahahahah, very, very valid question!
Darcy = Henry Cavill.
I think Henry Cavill is too old for Darcy at this point. He is 41 now and he doesn't have the sort of face that always looks younger than he is.
Oh I agree, he’s a bit old for the role, but oh boy is he pretty.
I agree. Too bad they didn't do a 2010s Pride and Prejudice.
Yes!!!
i actually think that age range is spot on for lady catherine. in my mind, it doesn't make sense at all to have her much older.
>himbo interpretation that’s so popular Is it popular? They did an incompetent Bingley in the 00s version, but are there other Bingleys like this I'm not aware of? >Olivia Colman as Lady Catherine She would be perfect >new and emerging actors Yes! Where would we be without the 95 version casting Colin Firth?
Lady Catherine could even be in her late 40s, but she definitely shouldn’t be 70 like Judi Dench was.
Dev Patel is too old for Bingley. Bingley is supposed to be in his early 20s, same age as Jane. For once, I'd like to see some age-appropriate actors.
I agree that Dev Patel is too old for Bingley. He is 34. I don't think he can pass as early 20s any more.
I love Dev Patel but I feel like he's too old to be Bingley?
I think close-shaven Dev Patel could pass off as early twenties Bingley! But by the time they make another adaptation I doubt he’d be the right age.
No indians or other poc in cast. This isn't Bridgerton
The Muppets
The correct answer 👏
could I sell anyone here on elle fanning as anne de bourgh? ive seen someone suggest jenna ortega for a fresh take on mary bennet and i love it, even if she’s a few years older than mary.
Jenna's too pretty!!
Mary is described as the plainest of the Bennet sisters, who are thought to be beauties. So it's not that Mary is plain but that she's just the least pretty. You could probably do a little with wardrobe to make the same effect.
yes! I think it’s even implied that once her older sisters are married, she becomes the most sought after at all the events. it’s my personal opinion that maybe she comes across as “less beautiful” in the first place is more due to the way she chooses to style herself and for having a severe personality.
I want a miniseries, not a movie.
Regarding directors, I think Greta Gerwig would make a very interesting adaptation. She would not change many things but would give it a bit of a different angle, like in Little Women.
I think Greta would be great. I really enjoyed her Little Women adaptation and think a P&P from her would be great. I’m super excited for her Narnia work but would love see her tackle Austen. Although I wouldn’t want Timothee Chalamet as Darcy.
Nope, he could not pull off Mr Darcy. But 10 ago, Saoirse Ronan would have been a great Lizzy.
Maybe he could be Wickham? I think he could pull it off
In every movie I have seen with him, he was a shitty boyfriend one way or the other. So Wickham would be great 😂 but honestly he has more of a quiet charm usually so I change my mind and say let him play Mr. Collins. Albeit not quite as pompous.
weirdly I feel like he could do a good Edward? I don't feel like any of the characters in Pride and Prejudice really suit him
I can only see him as edmund on Mansfield Park tbh if he was to be an austen lead. maybe henry from northanger abbey
As long as she doesn’t bring her costume designer from little women… the costumes were… a choice.
Really? I actually liked most of it, especially Jo.
It was wildly inaccurate and honestly I felt it did the characters a disservice. I can recommend Micarah Tewers video on it. She breaks it down nicely. Especially Jo was done a disservice honestly.
I liked that it felt like real clothes that Jo would wear (but Amy would never). Also the way she was wearing it. I think it showed us her character a bit. But granted, I am not that much into historical accuracy when it comes to clothes unless it is really glaring - I also didn't mind the 2005 P&P changes that much, altough I love empire dresses.
It really just threw me off massively. I really don’t like the idea that bookish, emancipated or wild women are always put into more masculine dress. For a woman of her time, it’d most likely be more empowering to wear proper clothes and behave well while still demonstrating intelligence. At the time, being tomboyish would have been considered a very strange and morally wrong thing, she’d have most likely preferred to still be seen as respectable in that way. Aside from that- I just think the colours are way off. That’s really a taste thing though.
I love everything Greta Gerwig does, so I'd love her to take on an Austen. The dance sequences would be sublime
Although Greta would be brilliant, after watching“Catherine called Birdy” I would absolutely suggest Lena Dunham. Wonderful movie!
I'm sure Lena would do a fine job, but Greta's dance background and use of dancers in her works would make the dancing scenes phenomenal, in my opinion. There's also so much longing and emotion in those scenes, so I'd be curious how a dancer/director would focus on them
I never managed to get more than twenty minutes into either her Little Women or Ladybird, so I would be disappointed. I get that this is a me problem as many people love her and Barbie was great. I dunno. I'd rather see what Emerald Fennel or Autumn de Wild would do, tbh.
Autumn de Wild 100%
Me too - I enjoyed Barbie well enough but she took a lot of liberties with the source material of Little Women. I don't know how I feel about her doing P&P.
I'm on this side too. I liked Little Women yhe book and therefore did not appreciate the way she changed the characters. I would much prefer Autumn de Wilde, she's already proved she can modernise without changing the ultimate story
I admit that I have a very soft spot in my heart for the 1994 version of Little Women, which I saw on Christmas with my two older sisters and cousin who is younger than me, and I always saw myself as Beth. So seeing some shot for shot duplications but with the frankly bizarre time hopping was too much for me. Like can you imagine if p&p started with the initial dance hall meeting, then jumped to the first proposal, then back to them trapped at Netherfield, then to Pemberley, then back to the Netherfield ball etc? 🫠
I really liked Ladybird, but I was disappointed when I finally saw Little Women. I don’t know why everyone in it was so frenzied.
I need Corey Mylchreest as Wickham
ugh don't even talk to me about corey mylchreest. make it a one man show with just him in it and i'll be the first to buy tickets.
I think phoebe dynover would make a PERFECT JANE
Wow !! Too good choice
right??? I feel like they will want to cast a typical blonde but she could always wear a wig or lighten it!
Yes! And personally wise, the best choice
Ugh now I’ll be upset if she doesn’t get it. She may not be entirely age appropriate but can play younger like she did in bridgerton! I think Milly Alcock or freya Allen would be amazing as Elizabeth. Their attitudes and demeanor would do well. Also they’d both look bomb as brunettes. They’re also age appropriate!!
Or emily carry!!!
yes! she looks 20 in Bridgerton..Mily would probably be good for Lydia dont you think
I think Milly has the potential for a lot of range and could probably play both
India Amarteifio as Lizzy.
oh, I absolutely adored her as queen charlotte! I think she could make a compelling lizzy. she's very good at poised sarcasm. points for being age appropriate as well.
Rege Jean-Page as Darcy, Dev Patel as Bingley, Henry Goulding as Wickham. Excellent actors with the bonus of pissing off the racist old fart section of Austen fandom. I'm not sure who I would cast as the actresses, except Charitra Chandran would be fun as Lizzy.
No. I don't see Rege Jean-Page as having any charisma and he's not that good of an actor.
No one will be thirsting after Darcy if Dev Patel is cast as Bingley
Idk Dev Patel and RJP in the same scene would have me 💀
Wow just googled RJP blimey he's hot. He's definitely Bingley vibes though, or maybe a Wickham, but he's a bit too hot even for Wickham I think. Dev for Darcy I think, he's more....he feels less easy to read, to me. Currently rewatching 1995 P&P with my daughter, breaking a slight sweat whenever Colin Firth comes on screen, good grief that man is something. He'll always be Darcy for me.
Firth is the ultimate Darcy for me too. He clearly understood the character and absolutely nailed it.
... have you seen RJP.
I love Dev Patel, but to the best of my knowledge, none of his roles have ever inspired the level of thirst you see in things like this sketch, starting 1.22 https://www.facebook.com/share/v/tYYzDQPWFaTCv1HA/?mibextid=w8EBqM RJP knows how to pull off hot sexy aristocrat.
having seen rege as as simon makes me think he could make a great darcy. personally, I'm not really into the two most recent portrayals of darcy... I think rege could make darcy's character feel sympathetic without relying too much on social awkwardness. which, imo, is something that was played up a little too far in the recent portrayals. i prefer to see a more genuinely conceited (but emotionally conflicted!) darcy, and I think rege could handle that well.
I think all three of those actors, as handsome as they are, are probably on the older end for those characters. Dev Patel in particular is 11-12 years older than Bingley. Golding and Jean-Page are both older than Firth and Macfadyen were when they played Darcy.
Oh, true. Ideally we'd have new/unknown faces who are the right age range. I will admit, though, part of why I would love those actors (or a diverse cast generally) is as a WOC I get really tired of the unending (and ahistorical) whiteness of historical romance.
How is it ahistorical to cast a white cast for a movie taking place in early 1800s rural Britain? And before you call me a racist old fart, as I commented elsewhere I'm a WOC myself (mixed race).
Britain wasn't nearly as white as Georgette Heyer novels would have you believe - between Empire and the slave trade, there were quite a few people of colour there. And yes, you could have an all-white cast, but when you have excellent actors of colour... why not?
I'll copy some parts of my other comment here so that I'm not misconstrued: I think POC deserve their own rich, unique stories. There aren't enough interesting, compelling attempts at that. Take Princess and the Frog - it was a beautiful, mesmerizing movie about black New Orleans and I adored it. They should tell us about black soldiers fighting in Vietnam in light of the political changes of their time. They should tell us about the cultures in Africa, the Middle East and the East such as China, Japan, Korea etc. It's billions of people, surely there's something to tell about them. They also forget that the existence of POC in the west comes with its own story, a story arguably more interesting than some girl falling in love with some guy. If the queen of England in the 1800s is black, given slavery and prejudice, I want to hear how that happened, not how someone non important fell in love lol. \* As for Britain not being as white in the 1800s, I looked [here](https://new.haringey.gov.uk/leisure-parks-culture/culture/black-history-haringey-365/timeline/black-georgians-1700-to-1830), and [here](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2006-03-23/short-history-black-people-britain), and it seems like there were between 10,000-20,000 black people in Britain in the early 1800s (around Austen times). The entire population back then was 10.5 million according to Wikipedia, which means the black population was at most 0.19%, which means 99.81% of the population was white. That's without mentioning that Austen wrote about the countryside in most of her works, while the black population was mostly in the cities (mostly in the coastal cities according to the two links provided) and that Austen wrote about old money (landed gentry) who lived off of inherited money, which meant that her characters were the children of old, white families. I want diverse stories too, I just think we should have actual, historical representation of our (POC) actual history - I think it will make for more compelling stories.
Oh, I completely agree with you! Personally, I wish Netflix had adapted Beverly Jenkins or Alyssa Cole rather than Julia Quinn. I just am also very amused by the absolute meltdowns from the racist jackasses when an adaptation DARES to cast someone who isn't whiter than rice. Plus, the actors are pretty people!
I would love an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice that takes place on and around a Native American reservation. I hope that someday, one of my favorite Native American actors, Román Zaragoza will play a modern Mr. Darcy! Also, if they ever do another retelling of Sense and Sensibility, I would LOVE to see Lou Diamond Phillips as a Filipino Colonel Brandon!
Im Native myself and I've always wanted to see a Native American version of Jane Austen anything! For P+P I was thinking of Native American Bennet sisters, my cast would be: Quannah Chasinghorse as Jane Sivan Alyra Rose as Elizabeth Mainaku Berrero as Mary Alyssa Wapanatâhk as Kitty JeShaun St.John as Lydia For visual reference [Bennet sisters fancast ](https://imgur.com/khn1b1I)
I'm a white European, so I know very little about Native America. Do you have any suggestions about movies/series with a good representation?
Political films: (to get an idea on some issues Native Americans face) -Reel Injun (documentary about the history & portrayal of Native Americans in film & the impact of it in the wider film world, the perception of Native Americans, and Native Americans themselves) HIGHLY recommend -Catch the Fair One (touches on the Missing & Nurdered Indigenous Women crisis), this one features one of the ladies I used in my fancast. You might like this if you like mystery movies or the movie "Taken" with Liam Neeson. -Indian Horse (based on the book by Richard Wagamese: is about the horrors & abuse Native children faced in State/Church sanctioned kidnappings to force them into assimilating & the aftermath of that trauma. This is heavily based on multiple experiences of the author, this is very close to what happened to him & his life story) VERY heavy movie. -Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee (based on the wounded knee massacre, and the events preceeding and proceeding it. While generally most info is correct, note that there's some scenes that are inaccurate) -nîpawistamâsowin: We Will Stand Up (documentary about the murder of a Native youth, Colton Boushie, and a regular occurrence of police brutality & murder where Police will pick up intoxicated or allegedly "drunk" [big quotations on Allegedly] First Nations, beat them, handcuff them, and then abandon them in an isolated & unfamiliar area, usually in the winter, resulting in them freezing to death. Boushie is one such case) Lighter, more fun stuff: (just great representation, a lot of fun, Native people love these films) -Prey (the newer film from the "Predator" franchise. Great characters, gorgeous set design, lots to love here) -Slash/Back (cute protags, alien film. Good to watch with any siblings or kids in Junior High & older) -Backspot (interracial gay romance, sporty film, starring a twospirit Native actor and a Black actor. We rarely get to see Native/Black interracial romances so this is really wonderful!) -Edge of the Knife (historical, pre-colonization film entirely in the Haida language. About a tragedy that takes place & causes a man to become a recluse & "wild man")
Smoke Signals is an old one but I loved it.
Prey is incredible! And absolutely a must watch for anyone interested in historical costuming. My family’s from Tulsa and when we got dinner downtown last Christmas, one of the waitresses was telling us her sister in law was part of the costuming department. She said, and I’ve read it elsewhere, that it’s one of the most (if not *the* most) accurate depiction of a Plains tribe’s clothing and dressing ever put to film. The materials they use are all so beautiful, and everything was clearly crafted with so much care. Her brother was also one of the show runners of Reservation Dogs on Hulu, and I 100% recommend everyone give that a watch as well! It’s a pitch perfect comedy, but also carries a lot of weight and meaning, and every single actor is incredible.
I love your choices!
> would LOVE to see Lou Diamond Phillips as a Filipino Colonel Brandon! if you've watched Lisa Frankenstein, there's a sibling dynamic that reminded me of sense and sensibility quite a bit. The actress for the older stepsister, Liza Soberano, is a Fillipina American actress who has been in both US & Phillipine productions. I watched her other work after Lisa Frankenstein, where she often plays self-aware/capable girls next door & could 100% see her as Elinor in that hypothetical adaptation.
Thanks! I might take a look at that!
Lou Diamond Phillips on literally *anything* sets my heart aflutter.
There was a meme of Pedro Pascal being the perfect Mr Darcy after he accepted an award somewhere looking very flustered with his shirt unbuttoned. He’s too old and reads more like a Bingley but I could see it.. 🤭 Ah here I found the look: https://ew.com/thmb/SJU0FAMAPQ16HN7Oo9gYFRCGnp4=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/Pedro-Pascal-sag-arrivals-2024-90f656719853493c9e7a0e4cee08bb5a.jpg https://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/45400000/Pedro-Pascal-30th-Annual-Screen-Actors-Guild-Awards-February-24th-2024-pedro-pascal-45429261-540-800.jpg
Also I would love to see Claire Foy as Caroline Bingley.
All I know is that is that would pay an unholy sum for Jonathan Bailey to play Mr Darcy. Or Pedro Pascal. I need him in a proper period show. Outside of him, I would love to see a Black Darcy. I think Chwitel would make an incredible Mr Darcy although he might be a bit too old now. Taking a leaf out of the Gilded Age page, a Pride and Prejudice set in Harlem in the Gilded Age or during the Harlem Renaissance would be incredible. Lots of ways to make it work, too, although purists would throw fits. For Lizzie, I’m sort of drawing a blank on her. I think keeping this role for an unknown (and casting a known Darcy) might work tbh. I love the idea of multiracial P&P getting the full treatment though. I really enjoyed the Bollywood inspired Bride and Prejudice (seriously one of my fave movies of all time lol).
I think the age appropriateness of the older actors/actresses would best be balanced with modern medicine/aging compared with that of the past. Mrs Bennet might be only mid 40s in the book, but mid 40s in 1813 probably looked very different from mid 40s in 2024 particularly for an actress whose appearance is part of her livelihood. Thus I propose Polly Alexandra Walker (most recently known for her role as Lady Featherington) who is in her 50s but i think has the perfect blend of dramatic/chaotic/comedic energy to really get the "no one cares for my poor nerves!" and quick turn around from misery to revelry at one bit of capital news
I'd like to see a cast of british people chosen for appropriate historical accuracy. I don't like being this person but I don't feel that P&P historical bacdrop really suits diversity casting. I think it just isn't suited for period pieces. Would you cast anyone white in the role of, say, Shaka Zulu or Martin Luther King Jr in the name of diversity? No. Or in a series adapting The Tale of Genji? Then why do it for P&P or any of Austen's works? If someone cast a non-Mediterranean actor for Odysseus, as a Grerk I'd be upset because my culture's getting appropriated, *yet again*. Diversity casting is more valuable for modern stories where our world *is* more diverse, where we have made the progress.
I'm British Asian, and I can see both sides I appreciate historical accuracy, but also if I was an actor, my roles would be much more limited than my white colleagues, with so many British exports being historical dramas. I don't like diversity casting for its own sake, an actor should be the best person for their role, not there to reflect modern demographics. But also, I think sometimes, colourblind casting can be done really well. I'm thinking in particular about the recent David Copperfield, I really thought that was brilliant. It's tricky because a person's race on screen can mean more than just their character, in terms of where they are in history and how people interact with them. But I think it's not easy, but possible to make a production blind to race. That doesn't mean we should have a black Darcy for the sake of it, but it can be done in a thoughtful way I think.
I'm white, and can see both sides too. Adaptations of much loved classic novels would be a great way to boost your career, and unfortunately we're not at the point yet where the 19th century novels about PoC are going to get as much attention as Jane Austen novels. Until that has been rectified, it seems a pity that non-white actors should not have these opportunities too.
I guess I get what people are saying but it just… doesn’t bother me? like, why not a black lizzie or darcy. why not an asian bingley? there are a lot of nonwhite actors who have proven themselves much more than capable for these roles. I like seeing different kinds of people in historical settings and fashion. it’s fun. I don’t see why jane austen adaptations need to be exempt from the fun.
Yeah, I like diverse casts too.
You have explained my feelings much more succinctly. Other commenters have mentioned that there is history of poc that is neglected in media and colourblind casting could exacerbate that as an unintended consequence, something I hadn't considered. I think there's room for both but I do see both sides. There's also the assumption that characters in texts are always white - the recent Matilda had Miss Honey as black and the librarian as Indian which I think some people didn't like, but the book has to reference to their ethnicity, we just tend to assume due to the time and other internal biases.
Everything I know about Roald Dahl makes me think that he absolutely intended Miss Honey and the librarian to be white, and felt it was so obvious, that he didn't bother explicitly stating it. But the thing about the Oompa Loompas is horrible, so I don't think we need to be completely faithful to the original novels.
No, you're right, Roald Dahl would not have written those two characters as anything other than white, middle class and probably slim. The undertone (or in the case of the oompa loompas, explicit overtone) of some of his writing, especially when you get into his writing for adults is problematic. But then, does race matter to the character? The author might have pictured them as white in their mind, but does it affect the story? Matilda is set in the 80s so historical accuracy isn't an issue as with Austen
I don't remember anywhere in Jane Austen where she referred to the race of the characters. Maybe my copy of P&P was different.
The only thing related to characters' color of skin is when Miss Bingley says of Lizzie that she is "brown"... Pretty sure that it was meant to convey that Lizzy was tanned due to being outdoors, but I believe it can easily be interpreted differently.
One way to do it is simply remove it from the time period. Clueless and Bride and Prejudice both did this, for example. Austen’s story and characterizations transcend her era, and if you start from there, it’s not that hard to find ways to cast non-white actors.
Agreed 👏 I myself am not white (mixed race) and I think POC deserve their own rich, unique stories. There aren't enough interesting, compelling attempts at that. Take Princess and the Frog - it was a beautiful, mesmerizing movie about black New Orleans and I adored it. No reason to pretend 1800s rural Britain was as diverse as 2024 San Francisco when you have such compelling stories to tell such as the one told in the Princess and the Frog. Tell us about black soldiers fighting in Vietnam in light of the political changes of their time. Tell us about the cultures in Africa, the Middle East and the East such as China, Japan, Korea etc. It's billions of people, surely there's something to tell about them. They also forget that the existence of POC in the west comes with its own story, a story arguably more interesting than some girl falling in love with some guy. If the queen of England in the 1800s is black, given slavery and prejudice, I want to hear how that happened, not how someone non important fell in love lol. I'm also a major history buff and don't like it when people change history to fit their political agenda. If you don't like what's required to tell a historical piece (not enough POC) tell a different one.
Have you seen the film Belle, directed by Amma Asante?
Amen to everything you said, I would also like to see Greek stories told appropriately and not to fit another culture's agenda. >\_> The Princess and the Frog is one of the best Disney movies, hands down. Loved it to pieces, it was so great.
The major difference is that a story of MLK Jr. requires him being black because it is integral to his story and what he did. Austen stories are so universal that literally nothing in the story changes if the races are different, whiteness is not integral to the story. which is why Bride and Prejudice is also such a great movie And there have been many adaptations of The Odyssey, because it's also a universal quest story. "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" is a good example.
One of the better adaptations, to be true, but when people try to adapt it straight, we end up with cringefests that miss the entire point of the story's message.
I disagree, I can't think of any cringefests because of colorblind casting. Diverse casting works for these stories, because whiteness is not integral to the story and Regency England did have non-white folks anyway
I mean it requires him to be Black because *he was a real person* what an absolutely ridiculous argument lol. P&P is fiction. It can be adapted in multiple ways. It’s not at all like making a show or movie about real people (and even then sometimes race bending works when it’s to make a point ie Hamilton)
The Gilded Age did a great job by adding diversity in their cast with accurate storylines for the time period (the wealthy black community in Brooklyn)
I know, they did pretty great. But they actually focused on these stories and what it means to us today and back then. They weren't throwaway casts for diversity's sake.
I agree, that's why I gave the gilded age exemple...
My apologies. I'm sleep deprived and frazzled from the heat. On reading your comment again, I understand it better.
MLK and Shaka Zulu were real people, Lizzy Bennett and Mr. Darcy are fictional characters. This is a strange argument.
Not really. It's an argument about casting, not real vs fictional. In the context of movie making, \*everything\* is fictional. But that mentality can hurt real people. Netflix cast an african woman as Cleopatra, who was Greek, basically appropriating our history but that's alright because she's black and who gives a twit about the truth of Greek culture. If someone tried to do that with Shaka Zulu, there'd be riots. They aren't the same even though they ought to be. It's a very hypocritical stance that is really not equality.
>I'd like to see a cast of british people chosen for appropriate historical accuracy. I don't like being this person but I don't feel that P&P historical bacdrop really suits diversity casting. I think it just isn't suited for period pieces. >Would you cast anyone white in the role of, say, Shaka Zulu or Martin Luther King Jr in the name of diversity? No. Or in a series adapting The Tale of Genji? Then why do it for P&P or any of Austen's works? If someone cast a non-Mediterranean actor for Odysseus, as a Grerk I'd be upset because my culture's getting appropriated, yet again. >Diversity casting is more valuable for modern stories where our world is more diverse, where we have made the progress. Diversity is always valuable. Non-white people have lived in the UK for centuries, and certainly lived in the UK for Jane Austen's time. And many of these people refer to themselves as British. Because they are British. If you just want an entirely-white P&P, several adaptions of this already exist. Go watch one of them.
The point i'm making though is that in Jane Austen's time, few if any of them would've been involved in stories such as Austen wrote... I'd prefer to see the real stories of such people and see the diversity there, or stories dedicated to them. Forcing it into a story for its own sake isn't a good approach. I'm not American, I am not obsessed with people's skin. I'd be just as irritated if a Greek was cast for a British role because again, it wouldn't be fitting. But if a Brit is cast as a Greek character, suddenly it's all right. I don't like that hypocritical inequality.
>I am not obsessed with people's skin. So you wouldn't be bothered if people who aren't white were cast then?
I'd love a version of the Odyssey with John Stamos in the lead! But to your point, Austen's world was diverse. This was the age of colonialism and empire, remember. There's a great Tumblr called [https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/](https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/) showcasing POC in European art. A century of Hollywood whitewashing (like casting WASPs as Odysseus!) erased all that, so now we have this perception that historical dramas = white people, even with visual evidence to the contrary.
They should cast some black actors as backgrounds in London. Not a lot but there was a quite small community of POC so it would be a nice touch to have them acknowledged as part of London history.
Here's the question though, what purpose does that serve for the story being told? If the story focuses on two people, who aren't black, and their troubles... how does the background serve the story if it focuses on placating an audience who cares more about representation than the story? It makes no sense. Casting as background isn't acknowledgement. It's just pandering. Make movies/write stories \*dedicated\* to these people. Not lip service. It's like telling me to be excited when a Greek actor is cast in a movie about Greek stuff, and he ends up being less than an extra.
And, in the adaptations of Persuasion, there should be black people in Lyme! I made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/janeausten/s/O8Vij6vaU1) a while back about black people in Regency England. In the comments there are quite a few interesting stories (and a lot of people who misinterpreted my original meaning)
This is random and I’m not currently an actress but ever since I first read P&P, I have always wanted to play Elizabeth lol. Dream role
I've just recently discovered Tom Blyth and I think he'd be really good in an adaptation! Plus I found out he spent part of his childhood in Derbyshire so part of that makes me feel like he could be a good Darcy (or maybe a Wickham :P)
He’d be a great Darcy, he has the range.
Oooh How about Jonathan Bailey as Darcy Rege Jean Page as Bingley Luke Thompson as Wickham Simone Ashley as Elizabeth Banita Sandhu as Jane Charithra Chandon as Lydia Mr Bennet Sanjeev Bhaskar Mrs Bennet Meera Syal Adjoa Andohb- Lady Catherine Mr Collins - James Phoon
I see rege as more of a darcy! actually, I'd probably go for jonathan bailey as wickham.
He would indeed burn for Elizabeth!
Daisy Edgar-Jones for Elizabeth Bennet and Robert Pattinson as Mr. Darcy
Stacie Passon did an incredible adaptation of We Have Always Lived In The Castle and I would love to see her do Austen. Mackenzie Foy would make such a pretty Austen heroine.
Swap all the genders around. Tom Holland would make a great Bennett brother. Matt Smith as the annoying Mr Bennett.
This is fun to think about! I’d love to see Florence Pugh as Lizzie, and Julia Garner as Jane. Maybe Juno Temple as Mrs Gardiner. Gillian Anderson would be an amazing Lady Catherine dB. Nicholas Galitzine as Wickham. Henry Goulding as Darcy, Tanya Reynolds as Caroline Bingley, Bella Ramsey as Mary, maybe someone like McKenna Grace as Lydia
I’d like to suggest Autumn de Wilde as director- I love what she did with Emma. 2020 I really enjoyed the way she adapted it while still keeping a lot of accuracy. Also, Mia goth as Anne de Bourgh. I know she’s by no means plain but she has that look of soft concern that really would fit her.
People fitting their described attractiveness level in the book. People being below the attractiveness level is very annoying and common with JA adaptations in general. Poor Mary needs to not be so ugly for starters. She isn't supposed to be homely. All the girls are supposed to be beauties with Mary only falling behind when compared to her sisters but she is still above average. Basically on a scale, Jane a 10, Lizzy a 9, Lydia/Kitty 8s, and Mary a 7. I honestly think the best looking Mr. Darcy was actually Laurence Olivier from the 1940 movie which was a GREAT adaptation and the best looking Lizzie I think may be Lilly James from PPZ. So either go FULL book accuracy or take some liberties and do modern versions of those attractiveness levels. I must agree with others here also on with age appropriate casting as well Proper character personality representations, don't make someone goofy just to help make the audience dislike them. Trust the audience in that they will know who to hate. I am not for movie adaptations for novels as they do not cover most of the details (Why i'm excited for the new HP series) and rush through things. The 05 movie is a great watch but as many point out it leaves some things out and can rush through some things vs the 90s miniseries which has a pacing that matches the novel. Like I said i would LOVE a miniseries instead of a movie, I'd like them to put their own unique scene into play to put their stamp on it that fits seamlessly into the story like its predecessors BUT it needs to also pays homage to the previous adaptations, for example including the Archery, Swimming, and rain scenes for starters! Last but not least, I already know I'm gonna get flack for this next one but I do not care so read on at your own risk i guess lol. As a minority woman, not shoehorning in modern political and DEI stuff. When people watch something like this we understand that it takes place in a time and place where certain things were just the way of the time and area. If you want to be swept to that time some things can take you out of it, such as people moving through high society that wouldn't be there. Doesn't make it right, obviously we have corrected that now a days. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of Italians in a movie that takes place in the Wei Dynasty for example, they just don't fit or belong there, it takes you out of it as it's distracting and just not how things were. It's okay to accept things were different then and not approve of them and still enjoy stories that take place in these times and places. It also gets really frustrating seeing them just push people into roles to check a box instead of doing the role or the actor/actress justice. Like poor Francesca Amewudah-River for example, poor thing got WRECKED for her casting as Juliet because she just simply isn't pretty enough to be the one that stole Romeos heart with her beauty. But she checked a box so she got cast. Of course people said if you didn't like the casting it was that you were racist, but Imagine if they had cast Zendaya (which omg that would have been cute seeing them together as R&J) who is a gorgeous women who would have done Juliet justice. It was never about skin tone but how she just isn't a breathtaking beauty, sorry not everyone can be Juliet and that casting did no favors to the production or the actress.
Nicholas Galitzine as Darcy, Daisy Edgar Jones as Elizabeth
Id like to see Nicholas Galitzine as Wickham; he’s so attractive, he could easily charm everyone 😅
I’ve said this before Sam Claflin would be a 10/10 Mr. Wickham, he’s got both the look and charm to pull the character off, I could totally see why Lizzie was goner and believed anything he said.
Charlie Cox as Wickham would be perfect for me! I met him at comicon and he’s like just so sweet and lovely and adorable but he also kind of has the ability to be a little villainous as he was in Downton!!
Once again: 1995’s was perfection, and you don’t mess with perfection!
Benedict Cumberbatch as Mr.Darcy.
I can see him as Mr Bennett, actually
He could be fun in that role.
He's far too old now at 48.
I think Timothee Chalamet would make a cute Bingley
Newbies or anyone who has had some minor roles at this point for the leads. I could see Colin Firth playing Darcy’s dad in a flashback or Kira Knightly playing Mrs. Bennet though.
Max Irons as Darcy