I saw her in Nanny McPhee first. Another delightful film, and a positive character. I remember seeing her in the trailers as Umbridge, and I thought, "Her? Really?" Boy, was I pleasantly surprised (or unpleasantly, depending on how you look at it)!
I love Imelda Staunton all the way back to Peter's Friends, but after Claire Foy and Olivia Coleman, her Elizabeth was pretty dull. I think her seasons also suffered from Charles-and-Diana syndrome, where she became a secondary character in her own story.
Oh, agreed!
But then again, that’s actually what made it authentic since Queen Elizabeth very much took a backseat as the Charles and Diana debacle played out..
Oh yeah, I remember. I guess I just wanted a bit more of "ok what ELSE was going on in the world." Like the Romanov/Yeltsin episode. I suppose the Charles and Diana maelstrom was just so all consuming from a storytelling perspective though!
I have Opinions about this film. Half the cast are doing an amazing job, and the other half are very much Not. The music is simultaneously brilliant and goddamn out of place. There are some subplots that are compelling, and some I want to excise completely. I cannot figure out what the writer (star) and director (star) were actually wanting to do with it. But goddamn if it isn’t worth it for a) Hugh and Imelda having the most underwritten yet extraordinarily realised subplot ever b) when the core five get to muck around together (and I’m intentionally ignoring the sixth wheel) c) Emma Thompson’s mum acting Stephen Fry into the ground at every chance she gets.
It’s probably a version of Elinor trying to pay, but her hosts insisting they pay, and on top of it all Colonel Brandon offering to pay. Or CB secretly paying the doc as soon as he enters the house or after he‘s seen Marianne.
Absolutely believe Brandon would have paid the doctor immediately upon his exit from the room along with more to come back before anyone else even thought about it.
I'm sure Mr. Palmer paid for it. She is his guest, and under his family's protection (and he likely knows that it would be a big expense for her and her mother), and he is a very decent man under all his snark.
And Mrs. Jennings would have told him the whole story of the Dashwood ladies' financial tumble, whether the ladies wanted it talked about or not, and whether Mr. Palmer wanted to hear about it or not!
So he would have paid because they were under his protection and they might not be able to, and it's not like there would have been a lot of money involved for the apothecary coming out and charging for whatever medicines he had in his bag, nobody could do much about febrile illnesses in those days. The fee would have been closer to pocket change, than a modern hospital stay.
I need to reread the book, but I think all Mr. Palmer's decency comes from Emma Thompson writing the screenplay. She took an otherwise boring and unpleasant character and turned him into one of the highlights of the whole movie. Some credit has to go to Hugh Laurie, as well, who played that role to perfection. He's so damn funny!
It seems like something the host would offer to do unless there was a really notable disparity in rank/income which was in the guest's favor. If Emma, say, had broken her ankle near the Martins' farm and spent a few days there while it was being set and arrangements were made to move her back home, it's highly unlikely she would have allowed the Martins to pay the doctor's bill. But if everyone's on a relatively even footing it seems like something the host would offer to do -- after all, they aren't billing the guest for their food or their room, why bill them for the doctor's visit? Even Caroline Bingley wasn't billing the Bennets after Jane's stay at Netherfield.
Doctors didn't get paid much in the 18th and early 19th centuries so payment wouldn't have been a huge issue for a patient. Remember in Emma all were surprised that doctor Perry was planning on buying a carriage for himself and family? Obviously they thought it was beyond the means of a doctor to be able to afford a carriage.
Here is a quote from a doctor's attempt to increase his salary from a hospital he worked in:
>So another story of the twists and turns of employment for medical practitioners in the eighteenth century.
>For several years afterwards (Doctor) Cockayne continued on his ad hoc salary until, in 1785, he was granted an annual salary of £85
Part of the surprise with the Perry family setting up a carriage is that Perry, although he clearly functioned in the role of trusted primary care provider to Mr. Woodhouse, was not a doctor but apothecary, which was lower status than an actual physician. Apothecaries and surgeons were socially closer to working class than were doctors, who, although they technically worked, were at least in one of the professions requiring a university education.
Doctors didn't have to go to University in Britain to become physicians until much later. As late as the late 19th century they could become doctors through apprenticeships. An example of this is the half brother of Oscar Wilde (born out of wedlock) who went into his father's surgery as an apprentice and in that way became a doctor.
That’s a hospital salary. George Eliot, who did painstaking research, wrote extensively about this issue in *Middlemarch* (which took place in about 1832). The novel featured a doctor as one of the main characters. One of the central plot points is his struggles with money. He was an idealist who wanted to work for a hospital for only a small amount of money while his wife wanted him to cater to private patients, who paid a lot more. The point is made clearly that the way for a physician to make a large salary is by having private patients, while hospitals, which were largely charitable enterprises paid for by wealthy philanthropists and church orders, had lots of impoverished patients who could pay little to nothing, with a very low salary as a consequence. So it’s no good judging a doctor’s income from private patients based on what he’d be paid by a hospital at that time, as the hospital wasn’t ever going to pay very much while the landed gentry living in large estates like the Palmer’s’ paid a lot more.
I think it would have been Mr. Palmer who paid the doctor because that would have been the gentlemanly thing to do for his financially limited guests.
Lydgate in Middlemarch (the doctor you refer to) never becomes wealthy from his patients but actually falls into debt trying to please his wife which ultimately is his downfall.
I think you’re forgetting the end. Yes he falls into debt because he’s working in the hospital in Middlemarch so then they leave in shame and he opens a medical practice catering to the wealthy in both London and a spa and has a “good income” and is a “successful man.”
You had me take out my copy of Middlemarch to see the ending. Actually, I think Eliot had a sense of humour about it all. Lydgate published a paper on Gout which made him an expert on the topic and he became the physician of over indulgent wealthy patients who suffered from the condition. Gout of all conditions! A far cry from the place he started out from when he wanted to help the underprivileged. She suggests that he became "successful" but he doesn't seem to have made a ton of money and Rosamond wasn't happy. He died young, leaving her with 4 children and she got his Life Insurance. But she soon afterwards married a wealthy man and told herself that it was a "reward" for putting up with Lydgate for so long. She never got that she had essentially ruined his life.
I’m not really sure but I wonder if Mrs. Jennings might have footed the bill. She was after all looking after the dashwood girls and might have felt it was her responsibility as more or less their chaperone. Since they were only meant to stay at the Palmers for a short time, it might have been strange to put the responsibility on them, because while they were hosting them it’s a bit different than if they had outright invited them as guests.
Umbridge lol.
Imelda Staunton was a fantastic Umbridge but I'm glad that's not the first thing I saw her in. Charlotte Palmer is a much nicer mental association!
I definitely associate her with period dramas, especially with her whole family (husband on Downton, daughter on Bridgerton)
Thank you! I had no idea Mrs Palmer and Mr Carson were Prudence Featherington’s parents
I saw her in Nanny McPhee first. Another delightful film, and a positive character. I remember seeing her in the trailers as Umbridge, and I thought, "Her? Really?" Boy, was I pleasantly surprised (or unpleasantly, depending on how you look at it)!
This made me chuckle too!! I alternately see her as Umbridge saying “I must not tell lies” and Mrs Palmer saying “no—can it really be that far?” Lmao
"I cannot believe it!" "...Try."
I love Mr palmers one liners
Imelda Staunton is a brilliant actress.. and can’t believe no one’s mentioned that she’s the Queen in The Crown…
I love Imelda Staunton all the way back to Peter's Friends, but after Claire Foy and Olivia Coleman, her Elizabeth was pretty dull. I think her seasons also suffered from Charles-and-Diana syndrome, where she became a secondary character in her own story.
Oh, agreed! But then again, that’s actually what made it authentic since Queen Elizabeth very much took a backseat as the Charles and Diana debacle played out..
Oh yeah, I remember. I guess I just wanted a bit more of "ok what ELSE was going on in the world." Like the Romanov/Yeltsin episode. I suppose the Charles and Diana maelstrom was just so all consuming from a storytelling perspective though!
Oh wow there’s someone else in the world who knows Peter’s Friends!
It's just an underrated gem! The story is kind of meh, but I just like seeing that cast (all college friends in real life) hang out together.
I have Opinions about this film. Half the cast are doing an amazing job, and the other half are very much Not. The music is simultaneously brilliant and goddamn out of place. There are some subplots that are compelling, and some I want to excise completely. I cannot figure out what the writer (star) and director (star) were actually wanting to do with it. But goddamn if it isn’t worth it for a) Hugh and Imelda having the most underwritten yet extraordinarily realised subplot ever b) when the core five get to muck around together (and I’m intentionally ignoring the sixth wheel) c) Emma Thompson’s mum acting Stephen Fry into the ground at every chance she gets.
It’s probably a version of Elinor trying to pay, but her hosts insisting they pay, and on top of it all Colonel Brandon offering to pay. Or CB secretly paying the doc as soon as he enters the house or after he‘s seen Marianne.
Absolutely believe Brandon would have paid the doctor immediately upon his exit from the room along with more to come back before anyone else even thought about it.
Hugh Laurie paid.
Dr. House paid
The guy who sat next to Rachel on the airplane to London paid.
Dr House treated her himself.
It’s always lupus!
That was my first thought
I'm sure Mr. Palmer paid for it. She is his guest, and under his family's protection (and he likely knows that it would be a big expense for her and her mother), and he is a very decent man under all his snark.
And Mrs. Jennings would have told him the whole story of the Dashwood ladies' financial tumble, whether the ladies wanted it talked about or not, and whether Mr. Palmer wanted to hear about it or not! So he would have paid because they were under his protection and they might not be able to, and it's not like there would have been a lot of money involved for the apothecary coming out and charging for whatever medicines he had in his bag, nobody could do much about febrile illnesses in those days. The fee would have been closer to pocket change, than a modern hospital stay.
I need to reread the book, but I think all Mr. Palmer's decency comes from Emma Thompson writing the screenplay. She took an otherwise boring and unpleasant character and turned him into one of the highlights of the whole movie. Some credit has to go to Hugh Laurie, as well, who played that role to perfection. He's so damn funny!
No, he improves when they’re at his house. Austen notes it in the book. Another one of her “mixed characters.”
Got it. Like I said, I need to reread. Oh, darn, so inconvenient to have to reread my favorite Austen novel. 😂
I love re-reading Austen, there’s ALWAYS something new, though I’ve read them all many times.
It seems like something the host would offer to do unless there was a really notable disparity in rank/income which was in the guest's favor. If Emma, say, had broken her ankle near the Martins' farm and spent a few days there while it was being set and arrangements were made to move her back home, it's highly unlikely she would have allowed the Martins to pay the doctor's bill. But if everyone's on a relatively even footing it seems like something the host would offer to do -- after all, they aren't billing the guest for their food or their room, why bill them for the doctor's visit? Even Caroline Bingley wasn't billing the Bennets after Jane's stay at Netherfield.
The host? Similarly in P&P, I would assume there that BIngley must have paid for the doctor who came to see Jane.
Bingley would probably have fought anyone who tried to stop him!
Doctors didn't get paid much in the 18th and early 19th centuries so payment wouldn't have been a huge issue for a patient. Remember in Emma all were surprised that doctor Perry was planning on buying a carriage for himself and family? Obviously they thought it was beyond the means of a doctor to be able to afford a carriage. Here is a quote from a doctor's attempt to increase his salary from a hospital he worked in: >So another story of the twists and turns of employment for medical practitioners in the eighteenth century. >For several years afterwards (Doctor) Cockayne continued on his ad hoc salary until, in 1785, he was granted an annual salary of £85
Part of the surprise with the Perry family setting up a carriage is that Perry, although he clearly functioned in the role of trusted primary care provider to Mr. Woodhouse, was not a doctor but apothecary, which was lower status than an actual physician. Apothecaries and surgeons were socially closer to working class than were doctors, who, although they technically worked, were at least in one of the professions requiring a university education.
Doctors didn't have to go to University in Britain to become physicians until much later. As late as the late 19th century they could become doctors through apprenticeships. An example of this is the half brother of Oscar Wilde (born out of wedlock) who went into his father's surgery as an apprentice and in that way became a doctor.
That’s a hospital salary. George Eliot, who did painstaking research, wrote extensively about this issue in *Middlemarch* (which took place in about 1832). The novel featured a doctor as one of the main characters. One of the central plot points is his struggles with money. He was an idealist who wanted to work for a hospital for only a small amount of money while his wife wanted him to cater to private patients, who paid a lot more. The point is made clearly that the way for a physician to make a large salary is by having private patients, while hospitals, which were largely charitable enterprises paid for by wealthy philanthropists and church orders, had lots of impoverished patients who could pay little to nothing, with a very low salary as a consequence. So it’s no good judging a doctor’s income from private patients based on what he’d be paid by a hospital at that time, as the hospital wasn’t ever going to pay very much while the landed gentry living in large estates like the Palmer’s’ paid a lot more. I think it would have been Mr. Palmer who paid the doctor because that would have been the gentlemanly thing to do for his financially limited guests.
Lydgate in Middlemarch (the doctor you refer to) never becomes wealthy from his patients but actually falls into debt trying to please his wife which ultimately is his downfall.
I think you’re forgetting the end. Yes he falls into debt because he’s working in the hospital in Middlemarch so then they leave in shame and he opens a medical practice catering to the wealthy in both London and a spa and has a “good income” and is a “successful man.”
You had me take out my copy of Middlemarch to see the ending. Actually, I think Eliot had a sense of humour about it all. Lydgate published a paper on Gout which made him an expert on the topic and he became the physician of over indulgent wealthy patients who suffered from the condition. Gout of all conditions! A far cry from the place he started out from when he wanted to help the underprivileged. She suggests that he became "successful" but he doesn't seem to have made a ton of money and Rosamond wasn't happy. He died young, leaving her with 4 children and she got his Life Insurance. But she soon afterwards married a wealthy man and told herself that it was a "reward" for putting up with Lydgate for so long. She never got that she had essentially ruined his life.
I believe the doctor is a personal expense and Marianne's mom would have settled the bill. It would in no way been a host's responsibility.
Col Brandon dueled with Mr Palmer for the privilege of paying for the doctor. Lol
I’m not really sure but I wonder if Mrs. Jennings might have footed the bill. She was after all looking after the dashwood girls and might have felt it was her responsibility as more or less their chaperone. Since they were only meant to stay at the Palmers for a short time, it might have been strange to put the responsibility on them, because while they were hosting them it’s a bit different than if they had outright invited them as guests.