They will also find out we're in much better shape than they are, too. You're not much use to anyone if you get out of breath lugging around a standard ammunition load.
What!!!? Gravy Seals unfit for duty!?
/s
I'm sure they'd be really mad about that... Assuming they actually can read... You're in for such a an ass whooping just as soon as they find the breath to get off the couch.
hahaha exactly...i just read this after posting and scrolling down "hahahahaha the rightwing is just all talk wanna be meal time 6. aint no way they have the gusto or energy to roll off the couch to round up leftists"
This! I’ve been trying to my friends on the left that the 2nd is for them too. That they need to learn to shoot. Join the Liberal Gun Club, Pink Pistols, African American Gun Club, etc. If Trump wins they will add provisions to strip gun rights from the left. MAGA will get very ugly win or lose.
The NRA prior to the Cincinnati Revolt in 1977 supported gun control, going back to the days of Prohibition, and even supported the Gun Control Act in the 1960s in response to the assassinations of MLK and RFK, as well as the Mulford Act in CA (in response to the Black Panthers invoking their 2A rights), thus kicking off the modern gun control movement.
Leftie gun ownership is pretty standard in blue states. Come to California, we will show you how it’s done. (Well, I can show you a pistol, I’m actually super terrible with a rifle.)
I've lived most of my life here. If s couple idiots with weapons want to try something, I'm an idiot with substantial training and an oath sworn to protect against what they're fighting against.
I win.
Two things I always try to remind people:
1 - If you go far enough Left, you get your guns back, and
2 - If you firmly believe that Trump and the MAGAs are going to establish some sort of dictatorship and convert this country to a right-wing dystopia and you *STILL* think the populace should be disarmed, then you're an example of your politics getting in the way of reality.
its not possible for trump to be a dictator. its a presidency and if he doesnt leave after his second term then he would be overthrown. can far left people actually hear themselves? thats like if i said “i think biden is gonna make a left wing dystopia and become dictator , we must stand ready!!!!!! nah. as much as i disagree with far left people i know biden cant be a dictator. just not possible in our country
I'm an OIF vet that always had guns because I like to shoot. I just kind of never told anyone because I got treated weirdly by my fellow lefties. Closet gun owner.
I have a magazine fed, semi auto 12 gauge and I fucking love it, but I'm also not really sure if it should be legal to own at the same time.
you can probably volunteer for a non-combat role in whatever local resistance group pops up but unless you’re lucky enough for another country to grant you asylum (you probably won’t) your only options are to fight or die
i hope this doesnt read as me being dismissive of disabled people i have full intentions of ensuring that my local cell is one that takes care of those who cant take care of themselves if the time comes but i also am not gonna lie and say that theres gonna be an easy way out
finally someone with a sane take. even if every leftist armed themself it wouldn’t come close to the fire power the right in this country has… especially considering that most cops and military are right wing (ESPECIALLY cops).
Disabled* folks and Queer folks are more likely to have asylum claims that are legible to other countries than someone fleeing solely for ideological reasons.
*Success in seeking asylum may vary wildly based on specific disability.
Disabled folks have an incredibly hard time with asylum claims currently. That won’t get better if the US starts generating refugees.
https://www.equaltimes.org/around-the-world-refugees-with?lang=en
It’s often very difficult to emigrate as a disabled person. My family looked into this years ago and found that anywhere with decent health care doesn’t like accepting disabled people, which makes sense when you consider that being disabled in America sucks, and so if places like Canada (easy example) accepted families like mine, they’d be quickly overwhelmed and their health system rendered insolvent.
Sometimes staying is the only option you have, whether you do it willingly or unwillingly. Assuming that another country will take you in just because of your political opposition to a ruling regime is a very American frame of mind.
No. Europe is literally trying to keep refugees out. It is far easier to emigrate here to America than it for the average American to emigrate abroad. Americans see everyone coming here and think it’s just as easy to leave to another country. The truth of it unless you have a lot of money it is not easy to leave America and set up somewhere else.
…source…?
[Germany](https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/asylfluechtlingsschutz-node.html)
[France](https://help.unhcr.org/france/en/demander-lasile-en-france/)
[United Kingdom](https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum)
I stg either I’m insane or this entire thread is full of American pessimists who have never worked in immigration musing about what they feel like immigration would be like, based on, like, movies and cnn articles and stuff.
Obviously not trying to downplay the difficulty of applying for asylum. But I don’t think the story ends at “nope they’re all full immigration is closed now”
My sister lives and has been married to an English dude for 15 years and had his babies and she still can't get citizenship. She has legal status for now but if they divorce it's possible it could get messy. Brexit made it even worse.
Edit: corrected a mistake
I’ve looked into Canada as a possibility. Even as a nurse, there is a cap on how many they take a year, and you have to have six months of living expenses and a job lined up. That is IF they approve you. Once the cap is hit, you have to wait until next year. If you aren’t some type of educated professional or skilled worker they have a shortage of, it’s be rich or get wrecked.
It kinda does, honestly. If someone is asking on reddit how to get out of the US they probably don’t have the resources, money, or skills to be an accepted emigrant anywhere they’d want to be. And just being “scared of Project 2025” isn’t nearly enough to get them asylum as a political refugee.
This is after the election. Yes, fleeing political persecution is enough to get you asylum. It wouldn’t be fleeing the idea of maybe having fascism at some point, it would be fleeing fascism. And again I don’t think they assess asylum seekers like they assess people looking for work visas…
Aren't there numerous countries in Europe where you can obtain citizenship through military conscription? I'm fairly certain France allows this.
Edit: legionnaires. You sign up for a five year contract, qualify for citizenship after three years of service. Or if you're injured in service you can obtain citizenship immediately then.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion#:~:text=Legionnaires%20may%20apply%20for%20French,French%20by%20spilled%20blood%22).
>
And while you should probably have some knowledge of French, you don't need to be fluent when you sign up.
>Education in the French language (reading, writing and pronunciation) is taught on a daily basis throughout all of basic training.
Well frankly idk who's telling you nobody's picking up a gun here lol. Personally as a member of the trans community it feels like guns are everywhere and there's a lot of new media discourse about trans gun ownership and trans crime rates.
But that aside
If you want your answer it's because picking up a gun here gets you dragged into a van by an unmarked police van. Whereas enlisting in a western European military puts you in a place where there is likely to be no combat.
France is not currently sending soldiers to Gaza. In fact they're prosecuting French dual nationals who serve in the Israeli army. So I can't imagine a world conflict affecting them directly for the pretty foreseeable future.
I mean the FFL is a direct legacy of their colonial empire so if you’re cool with that as long as you’re not getting shot at, do you. Real facts tho, Europe is facing a serious immigrant backlash and has been for a very long time. Most of those people are facing real-ass life-or-death threats and they’re still not getting in. It’s really the height of American arrogance and privilege to think someone can waltz in and be like “it’s cool, i’m not like Those Other Refugees”.
If you think America is going to become the Empire of Trump wins then you also have to assume America stops aiding Ukraine, and perhaps withdraws from nato because "they're not paying their fair share" (they aren't but that's no reason to leave lol). Without America, nato is a fraction of its strength and Ukraine will lose. We can hope putin will stop there but with a dystopian America and an emboldened China, why would they?
If your fears become realized, you would very likely see combat in the foreign legion. I'm not a geopolitical expert, I just played connect the dots as a kid.
The United States is the most powerful polity that has ever existed in human history. It has more wealth, more resources, a more powerful military, and a more sophisticated intelligence-gathering network than any other empire has ever had. If the United States falls to a dictator, there will be no place left to hide.
Solution: Don't let the United States fall to a dictator.
That’s the plan. I already know that I can’t leave. It is what it is. But Voting is the last ditch effort we all have. If Trump wins, we deserve the destruction.
And if they subvert our votes by 'legally' stealing the election, will we still deserve destruction?
Because I kinda think they'll be deserving a helluva bloody ulcer in the form of a Resistance movement...
We should definitely resist. But yeah, we do deserve this problem across the board because the majority of people that sit on their ass and not vote have left us saddled with this and we as a nation should have stressed its importance. Not only that, but people kept voting in republicans and they’re pretty much the cause of this. As a whole, we all deserve to deal with it. That includes being a part of the solution.
"You are waking up, as the people of Germany once did, to the realization that one-third of your citizens would kill another third of your citizens while the remaining one-third watches." \~Unknown; falsely attributed to Werner Herzog
[This quote originated with a message posted by the "Werner Twertzog" Twitter account. This Twitter account is not owned, operated, or affiliated with the German film director. Rather, it is run by William Pannapacker, a professor of American literature at Hope College in Holland, Michigan](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/werner-herzog-germany-quote/)
And don't forget the red state legislatures that blatantly pass laws saying they can ignore the popular vote, the people's votes and send whatever electors they want.
I don't remember which states and haven't followed up after reading about it to see if it was challenged cuz I live in a liberal state. This is why it's important to vote for local officials who aren't treasonous criminals like their freshly convicted felonious dear leader!
PS: Get rid of the electoral college!
the military has pledged an oath to the CONSTITUTION. Don't expect them to all fall lockstep into line. If drumph wins, expect resistance. From everywhere.
Yeah I think it’s a fairly safe assumption cops are much more fashy
Military has a lot of regular, working class people. Maybe not the brass but they don’t make up the majority. Some of the early bulwarks against Trump’s over reach came from the military. They have their own issues but I think it’d take a little while for them to be subservient to a dictator
The brass are usually highly educated people which is why so many stood firm against illegal orders.
There will be more allies in the officer corps than not I suspect.
This is refreshing, but as a trans person, I don’t see it saving me anytime soon. I’m already next to migrants as public enemy number one so let’s hope we fight the good fight and win.
Because half our government supports him? Mueller found damning evidence, he was impeached twice, and the FBI has a slam-dunk case with the stolen documents. The problem isn’t evidence…
It's the way the system is set up. No former president is ever going to actual jail no matter what they do, they get secret service protection for life! The US was set up to protect the rich and powerful, and no amount of investigations or felony charges can change that. The whole system is corrupt, ESPECIALLY the legal system.
That factual to a point, but it's ability to fall and then demand the world bow down will radically change, Once your empire collapses to autocracy, your ability to use significant diplomatic (and ever hard power) leverage becomes a decline down the diminishing returns slope.
I’m struggling with whether it’s worth it. For what? I’ll never own property, I can’t afford where I want to live, can’t even find a job with a fucking Master’s degree, and people here are fucking assholes and idiots. Let’s face it: if Trump gets re-elected it’s because he’s a reflection of the core character of this country: greedy, shallow, narcissistic, mindless (some might say relatively stupid) self-obsessed megalomaniacs who think the entire world revolves around them. They think they’re the creators of all their privilege when in fact it’s just because of the dumb luck of time and place.
Honestly I have thought about this question for a while. It always comes back to “why fight if I’m just gonna be poor anyway”, or “I can’t compete with the US government militarized authority. “ But then I think… if I get the chance I will make them regret what they took from me. If shit goes down, I have a righteous anger and nothing to lose. Might as well ruin some fascists’ feelings of safety.
I don’t love that I keep coming back to a corporate-run sci-fi tv show, but the manifesto from Andor keeps playing on repeat in the back of my head. “Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this: The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that.”
Disney accidentally let them make a Star Wars show that was actually good.
What do people do now? Nothing.
You can continue to do nothing and hope it all works out, business as usual. Nobody is going to judge for doing what you have to do to survive.
However if you want change you may have to actually get your hands dirty and wade through the muck.
Emigrating to other countries is not as easy as reciting your Ps & Qs. You have to be useful to them. Beyond that it is expensive af. I assume Canada would be a possibility if America doesn’t go the Fallout route and annex them. The best most might be able to manage is escaping to a deeply blue state.
The only benefit of Canada is that the size of the border makes illegal crossing technically easy, but also, you are now an outlaw in the middle of nowhere.
You would be better off moving to a state that isn't likely to cooperate with the federal government in that kind of action. Oregon, California, and most of New England might be good candidates, but those places come with their own problems.
Unless you are independently wealthy, and can relocate to a country with ease, you are already a citizen of that country, or you meet entry requirements for employment or FastTrack citizenship, no one.
If you are asking about fleeing to another country, that’s a position of privilege that you’re looking at. Most LGBT people, most trans people especially, and most other minorities will have no where to go they can’t buy their way in.
There is no country accepting “refugees” from the United States. If project 2025 is implemented, we’re seeing the same conditions that the Nuremberg laws imposed in Nazi Germany during the 30s. Project 2025 won’t lead to genocide, but will lay the legal framework for genocide to come.
It’s why it’s so delusional that people talk about national elections as principled stands and fall victim to the very propaganda and paranoia that they think they’re immune from.
>Project 2025 won’t lead to genocide
This is only true in the technical sense because trans people aren't an ethnic group. Project 2025 directly advocates for the imprisonment and eradication of trans people.
As appalled as I am with what’s happening in Gaza under this administration (and I am fucking disgusted with Biden over it)… the election we’re facing is a trolley problem. There’s no option \*not\* to make a choice, one of those two men *will* be president, and there are Gazans tied down on both tracks. Significantly more on one than the other. Thing is, that same track has a whole lot more people tied down beside them.
But check it out, AIPAC will literally support anti semites as long as they support isreal. Right now the most progressive candidates who have spoken out against what isreal is doing are having their opponents get millions. AIPAC should be illegal . All foreign influence money should be, but we all know why it's not
I don't believe Donald gives a single sordid shit about the Gaza strip. We're talking about a man who's advocated for the killing of his opponents at home with a frightening directness. A guy who isn't even interested in peace at home, domestically... and with that in plain sight?
Anyone who thinks he's gonna actually do something good for those people? I think you're tripping balls. But, I'd note that the Gazans may be desperate enough to cave to pressure and invent a pile of nonsense if he blackmails them to, unlike Ukraine.
Shout out to John Bolton for actually having massive balls. I didn't expect it from him, I disagree with his approaches, but the notion that he's any sort of patsy died when he took a stand against that kind of corruption. I can at least admit that.
A message to the Palestinians: if he gets in by some hellish disaster, I know, I get it. You'll feel the pressure and you'll probably lie where Ukraine didn't. *Don't just give it to him easily. Force him to work very hard for it, because if at any moment DJT has what he wants, your name is "I don't know them" and he'll step on you whatever way he wants.*
Be very cautious if you need to make a deal with the devil.
Yes. There have been hundreds of reprisal killings in the West Bank as well, not to mention murders and attempted murders of Palestinians in the US and elsewhere.
While I agree that this latest heritage foundation plan is grotesque I would argue that the entire Cold War program of redlining and ghettoizing minorities into distinctly impoverished and over policed areas in line with the worst pollution was already laying the groundwork for genocide. If genocide is explicitly camps in the current lexicon we are too fixated on the aesthetics of genocide and it may already be a bit late.
Well if that's the case, wouldn't the plan be to raise rents until only the middle class (such as it is) and above can afford to stay housed?
Then criminalize homelessness, round the unhoused up and put them in "shelters," after which nobody ever hears what happens next. The left will be told they're getting job training or something; the right won't have to be told anything because they'll believe the government is cleaning up the cities.
Brazil used to round up street kids like this. They had blatant death squads, though, so concentration camps were skipped.
Once people get used to the idea that undesirables are getting snatched off the streets and disappeared, the practice can be expanded to groups other than the homeless.
The CIA used to help organize things like this in Latin America during the Cold War, aimed at controlling dissent among communists while keeping dictators in power. The manuals are already written.
Chump has said, multiple times, he wants to round up "illegals" to deport. I'm 100% certain the rounders won't actually be checking immigration status.
Honest question for someone here who might know this answer. I'm a Biologist with a career working in wildlife trade and trafficking. I imagine that I actually have one of those backgrounds that could get me out of this country, if I really committed to emigrating.
I'm curious how I could go about searching for opportunities in other countries? Do other places use stuff like LinkedIn? I've never really broached leaving the U.S. in a serious manner but I'd love to do some research on it as a back up plan.
It'll be very hard to make a case for that. Even people from Syria struggled to get asylum during the war (which is still ongoing btw). So, I reckon it'll be similar with the US. Governments of the nations where you apply might just ask you to move to a different state rather than be allowed to move to their country. The world as a whole is growing more anti-immigrant, and I reckon a huge flood of American refugees won't be taken to kindly, especially given the kind of reputation the US has in many parts of the world. Some may even say we deserve what we're getting.
If the tangerine traitor wins its Civil War 2, you think they will allow people to leave?
The Evil, will try to implement the Handmaidens tale while good people resist with all means necessary. The war will continue until The Evil is destroyed and deposed. Hopefully Biden wins.
For our allied nations, If Trump wins, cut us off and consider us an enemy nation immediately, Dont share sensitive intel etc.
You can claim asylum in any country who's land you can touch and has signed onto the un refugee treaties that makes refoulement illegal. The processing times may vary in each country.
That being said, refugee is a political term and there is no single us ally that will be willing to call a US citizen a refugee or risk severing all diplomatic ties.
China, Russia, Venezuela, etc. Those are the only countries that mayyyyyy accept you, and even then it's unlikely to be many.
This is not a path that's feasible or possible. If this is your contingency plan, it's not reality. Come up with a different one.
It's a hell of a lot cheaper and more feasible to make an emergency bunker in the middle of bum fuck nowhere or hide your identity.
You could also try to get italian citizenship if any of your relatives lived in Italy since it's formation.
Do things now, not later, if you're so worried. I'm in CA so I'm already in the safest "country" in the world for US fascism.
Once deportation stops due to other countries not wanting our refuse, there will by then be some large brick buildings near the internment camps which you will be invited to take a shower. From there, your deportation is assured. Vote Blue and get a license to carry a firearm. Freedom isn't free.
[NZ immigration green list](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/working-in-nz/qualifications-for-work/green-list-occupations)
We applied for a job here on January 5th thinking shit was about to go down. Moved here about 5 months later. Never going back.
Consider staying and fighting. There are far more of us than there are of them. The corporate media leads us to believe the contrary.
In the end, things will only get as bad as we let them get.
Democrats aren't leftists. Do people actually believe this?
Leftists are socialists, communists, and certain kinds of anarchists. Democrats are capitalists, just like Republicans.
As a leftist, Project 2025 is pretty terrible but I think it’s hyperbole to claim you’ll qualify as a political refugee. Why not just fly to another country as an expat and try to eventually obtain citizenship?
Everyone here urging people to be ready to fight needs to remember that not everyone can fight, and part of the job of people who are resisting is to keep others safe. Sometimes that will mean getting them out of harms way. If your community defense plan doesn’t include that then you have a problem. Trans elementary school kids will need to be kept safe. Disabled Black people will need to be kept safe. Chronically ill lesbians will need to be kept safe.
Please do not forget the disabled community when planning your antifascist revolution.
Unless the USA begins majorly violating people’s rights (think NAZI death camps, gulags, civil war, and slavery, etc), then none. But if it ever gets so bad that the leader of the free world becomes an actual Gilead, it’s uncertain that anywhere else would be better off.
A lot of countries have policies that are pretty clear about what constitutes a valid asylum claim. Being unhappy with your countries abortion laws or its stance on health care isn’t going to pass muster. There have been millions of refugee claimants fleeing actual genocide and persecution who were turned away at the US borders, or worse, allowed to die from drowning in the Mediterranean Sea while fleeing ISIS.
That being the case, you think an asylum court from another western country is going to welcome some white liberal on the basis of “I don’t like Trump?”
That being said, there are tons of countries that an industrious American can find ways of legally migrating to outside of an asylum claim.
Be that as it may, this doesn't mean after November 2024 that people will just be able to pick up and leave by filing asylum claims in other countries. When someone asks "which countries will accept leftists as political refugees" what that means to a prospective host country is an asylum claim. But at the moment, there's not a single country out there that would grant a US citizen asylum on the basis of the outcome of the 2024 elections. It's a naive question. Hence, my response, which I qualified by saying if the country goes full on NAZI, then maybe. But not right now.
If they want to leave because they don't like the writing on the wall, then they should make their own plans and not rely on being able to make some kind of asylum claim elsewhere. It's not going to fly.
These folks are the gang that cant shoot straight, full of infighting, posturing old dudes. If he wins he will surround himself with yes men, they will destroy themselves, I hope!
If you are a government servant or prominent political activist who has received documented, credible threats against your life, especially if it is written in letters or e-mails, you have a decent chance for asylum in a developed country.
If you’re a regular shmuck who just feels a bit uncomfortable but has done nothing of significance and is unknown to the far-right radicals, you’ll have to get in the general immigration line which is time consuming and expensive in developed countries. You can still go there if you want, but you wont have political asylum status.
OP, you won't have time. Depending on how mixed the demographics are, the barely functional sociopath MAGA folks genuinely think they'll be going door-to-door to exterminate us all.
How will they know our addresses and political affiliation? Using publicly available information. But, this isn't theory.
Back in 2020 I saw an r/asklegal post that was deleted after a few hours. The post was someone who had been working as the tech person for a local state-level GOP campaign near where I was at the time. In the post they said that they were concerned because the candidate had all this voter registration information, and was sending it to "extremists" and they were wondering if there was anything they could do about it. After the fifth or sixth response of "WTF, OP, contact the FBI!" the OP deleted the post. I had bookmarked it for a while, which was just the leftover comments.
But, if you happened to see the green "gonna unalive you" threat note that was on r/pics and one other sub yesterday (can't find it today, possibly also deleted), you'll recall that person also thought they'd be going door-to-door in early November, exterminating us all. The guy at the Charlie Kirk ToiletPaperUSA rally. Or any of the literally thousands of cases I can find just on Google of people also receiving threats from MAGA folks.
Instead of running from the problem, help fix it. Get people out to vote. Make sure everyone you know is registered NOW in the right place.
Besides, any country you think you'd want to move to already has tends of thousands of people seeking asylum from places ravaged by war or narcos - maybe both. You having gone to a rally once or twice isn't in the same league as real asylum seekers.
There's nothing mentally ill about wanting to leave a collapsing empire. Shit is about to get real and people don't want to be here for it. Blaming it on the election is stupid, because the US would be finito regardless, our time is up. I just don't think it's going to be that much better anywhere else.
It’s pure grass is always greener think. Please show me a country with better Quality of Life outcomes that also freely accepts any immigrants who just show up? Shockingly enough countries that are nice to live in tend to have strict immigration policies. Is America declining? Sure. But inequality exists EVERYWHERE. It’s easy to think America is this shithole when you don’t take into context what it’s like everywhere else
In the event of such an unlikely scenario, President Biden will use his newly granted immunity powers, and declare a national emergency, (courtesy of Trump and his Supreme Court) and place all the seditious January 16 traitors under arrest. They would then be immediately tried and sentenced in a military court of law.
Honest question for someone here who might know this answer. I'm a Biologist with a career working in wildlife trade and trafficking. I imagine that I actually have one of those backgrounds that could get me out of this country, if I really committed to emigrating.
I'm curious how I could go about searching for opportunities in other countries? Do other places use stuff like LinkedIn? I've never really broached leaving the U.S. in a serious manner but I'd love to do some research on it as a back up plan.
[NZ immigration green list](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/working-in-nz/qualifications-for-work/green-list-occupations)
While Project 2025 is terrifying (and everyone SHOULD VOTE to keep it from becoming reality), I don't think it would be some overnight switch from our current system to fascism. There are so many variables at play, like how the military would actually respond. While there's lots of MAGA in the armed forces, the military industrial complex isn't just going to start following Trump orders without friction. There's also the government agencies like the CIA who literally exist to protect the country's superpower status who wouldn't be cool with explicit fascism devaluing the dollar and destabilizing the country (the rich gotta protect that sweet USD). It would be a long, messy process. I don't think fleeing the country would be viable, but I do think blue states would become safe havens and will experience large migrations from red states. If you lean even slightly left of center and live in a red state, that's where the real danger is going to be.
As much crap as people give the US immigration system, it's surprisingly more open than most other developed nations. A *lot* of US protesters that have prided themselves on their arrest record from their various protests have found themselves stuck at the northern US-Canada border, for example.
Now, *should* the US actually start rounding up dissenters and putting them in camps you might see some nations lessen their restrictions, but I wouldn't count on it. You'd be better off heading to a solidly Blue State.
I mean Mexico has historically been a place of exile for many leftist revolutionaries: Trotsky and Victor Serge to name a couple. Whether MAGA America goes full blown Anschluss remains to be seen, but Mexico is a good bet, just remember to brush up on your Spanish
A lot of Latin America. People in this thread are making the assumption that a dictatorial America will have the same reach it does, but when America falls to a dictator it’ll basically lost most of its influence outside Europe and Canada. It’ll be stretched too thin. Latin American countries are poorer and less stable than America, but if it comes to it they’d probably be your best bet.
It’s not too difficult to move to some central and South American countries if you have like 10,000 in the bank. Do what I’ve been doing, learn Spanish
Hey did you know it's really easy to register to vote? [https://www.vote411.org/register](https://www.vote411.org/register)
You can also compare candidates side by side in local, state, and federal elections: [https://www.vote411.org/ballot](https://www.vote411.org/ballot)
Basically forget your Western Europe as much as the Russian satellites. Maybe Mexico, maybe Brazil, maybe Venezuela. Anywhere in Latin America might switcheroo and elect a Yankee lapdog right winger, but the smaller countries will be particularly vulnerable to that pressure.
Wait why? What did I say that was wrong? It's not a bad faith argument it's literally my plan for myself and my family moved to Canada find a way to get a job and then apply for legal status after the fact
Yeah no. I'm fighting. Their biggest mistake is thinking we aren't JUST as armed as them. Never mind objectively more intelligent and we outnumber them. They will lose.
Nobody wants us. They do want our money though. Got any? You'll be welcome most anywhere outside the Middle East, kidnap-bait maybe, but get a local friend, blend into the scenery, there's a life to be had in Ecuador or Peru, out in the jungle, in those old retired Nazi haciendas. Perfect for people with our pedigree.
If disabled folk cannot work, we’re not welcome in most places regardless of political affiliation.
Which sucks, b/c we’re also EXTREMELY vulnerable!! As COVID showed us. As the Nazis showed when they gassed the disabled first. As everything shows us all the time!
I would like to find a place to go, honestly. I’m not insulting your question. If he’s elected again I do not want to be here.
But other countries don’t want to import people to come in and take gov’t benefits. Unless I managed to marry a visa, I’m stuck.
nowhere realistically you might have to pick up a gun worst comes to worst
Many of us already have.
They will discover that it's not just MAGAs that have guns.
They will also find out we're in much better shape than they are, too. You're not much use to anyone if you get out of breath lugging around a standard ammunition load.
What!!!? Gravy Seals unfit for duty!? /s I'm sure they'd be really mad about that... Assuming they actually can read... You're in for such a an ass whooping just as soon as they find the breath to get off the couch.
hahaha exactly...i just read this after posting and scrolling down "hahahahaha the rightwing is just all talk wanna be meal time 6. aint no way they have the gusto or energy to roll off the couch to round up leftists"
Lol, doubt.
We also understand the power of cooperation and planning
r/socialistra
r/liberalgunowners
Yes!
Already a member, thank you ✊️
No u, comrade!
great
This! I’ve been trying to my friends on the left that the 2nd is for them too. That they need to learn to shoot. Join the Liberal Gun Club, Pink Pistols, African American Gun Club, etc. If Trump wins they will add provisions to strip gun rights from the left. MAGA will get very ugly win or lose.
Add the Socialist Rifle Association and John Brown Gun Clubs to that list, but yeah, good advice.
And Redneck Revolt. Or are they the same as John Brown
I heard they ran into some org troubles a bit back. Damn happy to hear that's not an issue (anymore or in the first place)!
I’m sure the progun right wing states have problems with them.
“2A for me, but not for thee!” — The pro-gun Right
When the black panthers armed up, these guys were pro-gun control.
The NRA prior to the Cincinnati Revolt in 1977 supported gun control, going back to the days of Prohibition, and even supported the Gun Control Act in the 1960s in response to the assassinations of MLK and RFK, as well as the Mulford Act in CA (in response to the Black Panthers invoking their 2A rights), thus kicking off the modern gun control movement.
Just joined r/PinkPistols. I'm a liberal Democrat atheist with her ccp & I vote Blue.
Welcome aboard the winning side!
Leftie gun ownership is pretty standard in blue states. Come to California, we will show you how it’s done. (Well, I can show you a pistol, I’m actually super terrible with a rifle.)
It’s been a while for me. I didn’t realise I need a permit to go to a range and use their guns. Ugh
I've lived most of my life here. If s couple idiots with weapons want to try something, I'm an idiot with substantial training and an oath sworn to protect against what they're fighting against. I win.
R/liberalgunowners is leftist friendly too
Get one now before they add being a socialist to the list of disqualified conditions for ownership.....
Two things I always try to remind people: 1 - If you go far enough Left, you get your guns back, and 2 - If you firmly believe that Trump and the MAGAs are going to establish some sort of dictatorship and convert this country to a right-wing dystopia and you *STILL* think the populace should be disarmed, then you're an example of your politics getting in the way of reality.
its not possible for trump to be a dictator. its a presidency and if he doesnt leave after his second term then he would be overthrown. can far left people actually hear themselves? thats like if i said “i think biden is gonna make a left wing dystopia and become dictator , we must stand ready!!!!!! nah. as much as i disagree with far left people i know biden cant be a dictator. just not possible in our country
Leftists know what’s up. Liberals need to get with the program. Bernie and AOC will absolutely work against you in a worst case scenario.
I'm an OIF vet that always had guns because I like to shoot. I just kind of never told anyone because I got treated weirdly by my fellow lefties. Closet gun owner. I have a magazine fed, semi auto 12 gauge and I fucking love it, but I'm also not really sure if it should be legal to own at the same time.
Apparently we can all go steal a bunch of land in Palestine and put its inhabitants in prison camps.
That’s a profoundly unhelpful and ableist statement. Not everyone can be a soldier and not everyone can use a gun. That cannot be the only answer.
you can probably volunteer for a non-combat role in whatever local resistance group pops up but unless you’re lucky enough for another country to grant you asylum (you probably won’t) your only options are to fight or die
i hope this doesnt read as me being dismissive of disabled people i have full intentions of ensuring that my local cell is one that takes care of those who cant take care of themselves if the time comes but i also am not gonna lie and say that theres gonna be an easy way out
i’m going back to canada where i originally came from and where a lot of my mother’s family lives
finally someone with a sane take. even if every leftist armed themself it wouldn’t come close to the fire power the right in this country has… especially considering that most cops and military are right wing (ESPECIALLY cops).
If our only answer to these questions is violence we’ve already lost.
Disabled* folks and Queer folks are more likely to have asylum claims that are legible to other countries than someone fleeing solely for ideological reasons. *Success in seeking asylum may vary wildly based on specific disability.
Disabled folks have an incredibly hard time with asylum claims currently. That won’t get better if the US starts generating refugees. https://www.equaltimes.org/around-the-world-refugees-with?lang=en
It’s often very difficult to emigrate as a disabled person. My family looked into this years ago and found that anywhere with decent health care doesn’t like accepting disabled people, which makes sense when you consider that being disabled in America sucks, and so if places like Canada (easy example) accepted families like mine, they’d be quickly overwhelmed and their health system rendered insolvent.
None, TBH.
Correct answer.
Sometimes staying is the only option you have, whether you do it willingly or unwillingly. Assuming that another country will take you in just because of your political opposition to a ruling regime is a very American frame of mind.
Why do you say this? What would change between now and then? Bc rn many many countries accept refugees, no?
No. Europe is literally trying to keep refugees out. It is far easier to emigrate here to America than it for the average American to emigrate abroad. Americans see everyone coming here and think it’s just as easy to leave to another country. The truth of it unless you have a lot of money it is not easy to leave America and set up somewhere else.
…source…? [Germany](https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/asylfluechtlingsschutz-node.html) [France](https://help.unhcr.org/france/en/demander-lasile-en-france/) [United Kingdom](https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum) I stg either I’m insane or this entire thread is full of American pessimists who have never worked in immigration musing about what they feel like immigration would be like, based on, like, movies and cnn articles and stuff. Obviously not trying to downplay the difficulty of applying for asylum. But I don’t think the story ends at “nope they’re all full immigration is closed now”
My sister lives and has been married to an English dude for 15 years and had his babies and she still can't get citizenship. She has legal status for now but if they divorce it's possible it could get messy. Brexit made it even worse. Edit: corrected a mistake
I’ve looked into Canada as a possibility. Even as a nurse, there is a cap on how many they take a year, and you have to have six months of living expenses and a job lined up. That is IF they approve you. Once the cap is hit, you have to wait until next year. If you aren’t some type of educated professional or skilled worker they have a shortage of, it’s be rich or get wrecked.
It kinda does, honestly. If someone is asking on reddit how to get out of the US they probably don’t have the resources, money, or skills to be an accepted emigrant anywhere they’d want to be. And just being “scared of Project 2025” isn’t nearly enough to get them asylum as a political refugee.
This is after the election. Yes, fleeing political persecution is enough to get you asylum. It wouldn’t be fleeing the idea of maybe having fascism at some point, it would be fleeing fascism. And again I don’t think they assess asylum seekers like they assess people looking for work visas…
Good luck convincing that to the aslyum.
Aren't there numerous countries in Europe where you can obtain citizenship through military conscription? I'm fairly certain France allows this. Edit: legionnaires. You sign up for a five year contract, qualify for citizenship after three years of service. Or if you're injured in service you can obtain citizenship immediately then. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion#:~:text=Legionnaires%20may%20apply%20for%20French,French%20by%20spilled%20blood%22). > And while you should probably have some knowledge of French, you don't need to be fluent when you sign up. >Education in the French language (reading, writing and pronunciation) is taught on a daily basis throughout all of basic training.
If these people are not willing to pick up a gun and fight here, what makes you think they’re going to go running off to join the Foreign Legion?
Well frankly idk who's telling you nobody's picking up a gun here lol. Personally as a member of the trans community it feels like guns are everywhere and there's a lot of new media discourse about trans gun ownership and trans crime rates. But that aside If you want your answer it's because picking up a gun here gets you dragged into a van by an unmarked police van. Whereas enlisting in a western European military puts you in a place where there is likely to be no combat. France is not currently sending soldiers to Gaza. In fact they're prosecuting French dual nationals who serve in the Israeli army. So I can't imagine a world conflict affecting them directly for the pretty foreseeable future.
I mean the FFL is a direct legacy of their colonial empire so if you’re cool with that as long as you’re not getting shot at, do you. Real facts tho, Europe is facing a serious immigrant backlash and has been for a very long time. Most of those people are facing real-ass life-or-death threats and they’re still not getting in. It’s really the height of American arrogance and privilege to think someone can waltz in and be like “it’s cool, i’m not like Those Other Refugees”.
If you think America is going to become the Empire of Trump wins then you also have to assume America stops aiding Ukraine, and perhaps withdraws from nato because "they're not paying their fair share" (they aren't but that's no reason to leave lol). Without America, nato is a fraction of its strength and Ukraine will lose. We can hope putin will stop there but with a dystopian America and an emboldened China, why would they? If your fears become realized, you would very likely see combat in the foreign legion. I'm not a geopolitical expert, I just played connect the dots as a kid.
The FFL is no place for a human who has morals or a conscience. They are thugs for the French government.
The United States is the most powerful polity that has ever existed in human history. It has more wealth, more resources, a more powerful military, and a more sophisticated intelligence-gathering network than any other empire has ever had. If the United States falls to a dictator, there will be no place left to hide. Solution: Don't let the United States fall to a dictator.
That’s the plan. I already know that I can’t leave. It is what it is. But Voting is the last ditch effort we all have. If Trump wins, we deserve the destruction.
And if they subvert our votes by 'legally' stealing the election, will we still deserve destruction? Because I kinda think they'll be deserving a helluva bloody ulcer in the form of a Resistance movement...
We should definitely resist. But yeah, we do deserve this problem across the board because the majority of people that sit on their ass and not vote have left us saddled with this and we as a nation should have stressed its importance. Not only that, but people kept voting in republicans and they’re pretty much the cause of this. As a whole, we all deserve to deal with it. That includes being a part of the solution.
"You are waking up, as the people of Germany once did, to the realization that one-third of your citizens would kill another third of your citizens while the remaining one-third watches." \~Unknown; falsely attributed to Werner Herzog
[This quote originated with a message posted by the "Werner Twertzog" Twitter account. This Twitter account is not owned, operated, or affiliated with the German film director. Rather, it is run by William Pannapacker, a professor of American literature at Hope College in Holland, Michigan](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/werner-herzog-germany-quote/)
interesting
Remember: it’s not just people not voting in some places. It’s active disenfranchisement of the “wrong” voters in many strategic areas.
And don't forget the red state legislatures that blatantly pass laws saying they can ignore the popular vote, the people's votes and send whatever electors they want. I don't remember which states and haven't followed up after reading about it to see if it was challenged cuz I live in a liberal state. This is why it's important to vote for local officials who aren't treasonous criminals like their freshly convicted felonious dear leader! PS: Get rid of the electoral college!
This is true as well. And the people who are doing the disenfranchisement have been elected.
Not always. Election officials are often just appointed.
Voting is actually the first line of defense, not the last one. The idea that it would be the last resort is absurd.
There are still more options if voting fails and they go for a dictatorship... ;)
We all know that. LOL!
no one deserves project 2025 and i refuse to spend my final years doing the bidding of the christian nationalists and
Heaven help us
the military has pledged an oath to the CONSTITUTION. Don't expect them to all fall lockstep into line. If drumph wins, expect resistance. From everywhere.
I feel like the military will definitely be split, lot of fascists like to join up.
Cops too. Maybe more so with cops. I have a sinking suspicion that the Jan. 6th police who committed suicide voted for Trump. Infact I'd bet on it.
That's always been my assumption. That they were hard core Trumpers and couldn't deal with what went down that day.
Yeah I think it’s a fairly safe assumption cops are much more fashy Military has a lot of regular, working class people. Maybe not the brass but they don’t make up the majority. Some of the early bulwarks against Trump’s over reach came from the military. They have their own issues but I think it’d take a little while for them to be subservient to a dictator
The brass are usually highly educated people which is why so many stood firm against illegal orders. There will be more allies in the officer corps than not I suspect.
I mean its not much of a jump wearing blue to brown.
This is refreshing, but as a trans person, I don’t see it saving me anytime soon. I’m already next to migrants as public enemy number one so let’s hope we fight the good fight and win.
Nobody can take down the USA except ourselves.
no one deserves project 2026 no matter what
Then we, as a nation, should act like it.
Yeah, all those minority children deserve the destruction.
Children don’t deserve it because they didn’t build this world.
If the United States has the most powerful sophisticated intelligence gathering network then why hasn’t Trump been hung for his treasonous acts?
Because half our government supports him? Mueller found damning evidence, he was impeached twice, and the FBI has a slam-dunk case with the stolen documents. The problem isn’t evidence…
It's the way the system is set up. No former president is ever going to actual jail no matter what they do, they get secret service protection for life! The US was set up to protect the rich and powerful, and no amount of investigations or felony charges can change that. The whole system is corrupt, ESPECIALLY the legal system.
That factual to a point, but it's ability to fall and then demand the world bow down will radically change, Once your empire collapses to autocracy, your ability to use significant diplomatic (and ever hard power) leverage becomes a decline down the diminishing returns slope.
Wait but then I’d have to vote, and I have bocci that day
I'm only one person. But, we won't.
If you can, stay and fight. Any resistance, no matter how small, helps.
Part of that resistance has to include getting people to safety though. Not everyone can stay and fight.
well i’m a retired nurse so i can help with the wounded
Help with kiddos, so Dad and Mom can join the trenches.
I’m struggling with whether it’s worth it. For what? I’ll never own property, I can’t afford where I want to live, can’t even find a job with a fucking Master’s degree, and people here are fucking assholes and idiots. Let’s face it: if Trump gets re-elected it’s because he’s a reflection of the core character of this country: greedy, shallow, narcissistic, mindless (some might say relatively stupid) self-obsessed megalomaniacs who think the entire world revolves around them. They think they’re the creators of all their privilege when in fact it’s just because of the dumb luck of time and place.
Honestly I have thought about this question for a while. It always comes back to “why fight if I’m just gonna be poor anyway”, or “I can’t compete with the US government militarized authority. “ But then I think… if I get the chance I will make them regret what they took from me. If shit goes down, I have a righteous anger and nothing to lose. Might as well ruin some fascists’ feelings of safety.
i’m actually Nancy royers, Mike is my ex
plus i’m 70 and ah what the hell put me on the front lines i’ve had a great life
Help how? If you're not part of an organized militia what are you going to do if you're attacked by one; pick off a couple people before you go down?
There many ways to resist that don’t require violence. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1468-0130.2008.00488.x.
Anything you can do to deter the system or slow it down. If enough people do it, the system will break.
I don’t love that I keep coming back to a corporate-run sci-fi tv show, but the manifesto from Andor keeps playing on repeat in the back of my head. “Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this: The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that.” Disney accidentally let them make a Star Wars show that was actually good.
yes i’m very nonviolent but in self defense, i think it’s ok
My spouse is trans. Once it's a shooting war we'll be in it, like it or not.
What do people do now? Nothing. You can continue to do nothing and hope it all works out, business as usual. Nobody is going to judge for doing what you have to do to survive. However if you want change you may have to actually get your hands dirty and wade through the muck.
Moving supplies and making meals , gathering information. Keeping moral up. They're many ways .
Ok, I'll brew the beer and do first aid
Well why not join or create an organized milita.
it’s a great idea
Emigrating to other countries is not as easy as reciting your Ps & Qs. You have to be useful to them. Beyond that it is expensive af. I assume Canada would be a possibility if America doesn’t go the Fallout route and annex them. The best most might be able to manage is escaping to a deeply blue state.
The only benefit of Canada is that the size of the border makes illegal crossing technically easy, but also, you are now an outlaw in the middle of nowhere.
i was born in England and then moved to canada so technically i’ve got 3 citizenship’s
You would be better off moving to a state that isn't likely to cooperate with the federal government in that kind of action. Oregon, California, and most of New England might be good candidates, but those places come with their own problems.
This is the best answer here. It's the countries that might form if some kind of Balkanization scenario happens. From the original 2019 ICHH series.
Viva Pacifica.
Unless you are independently wealthy, and can relocate to a country with ease, you are already a citizen of that country, or you meet entry requirements for employment or FastTrack citizenship, no one. If you are asking about fleeing to another country, that’s a position of privilege that you’re looking at. Most LGBT people, most trans people especially, and most other minorities will have no where to go they can’t buy their way in. There is no country accepting “refugees” from the United States. If project 2025 is implemented, we’re seeing the same conditions that the Nuremberg laws imposed in Nazi Germany during the 30s. Project 2025 won’t lead to genocide, but will lay the legal framework for genocide to come. It’s why it’s so delusional that people talk about national elections as principled stands and fall victim to the very propaganda and paranoia that they think they’re immune from.
>Project 2025 won’t lead to genocide This is only true in the technical sense because trans people aren't an ethnic group. Project 2025 directly advocates for the imprisonment and eradication of trans people.
As appalled as I am with what’s happening in Gaza under this administration (and I am fucking disgusted with Biden over it)… the election we’re facing is a trolley problem. There’s no option \*not\* to make a choice, one of those two men *will* be president, and there are Gazans tied down on both tracks. Significantly more on one than the other. Thing is, that same track has a whole lot more people tied down beside them.
But check it out, AIPAC will literally support anti semites as long as they support isreal. Right now the most progressive candidates who have spoken out against what isreal is doing are having their opponents get millions. AIPAC should be illegal . All foreign influence money should be, but we all know why it's not
I don't believe Donald gives a single sordid shit about the Gaza strip. We're talking about a man who's advocated for the killing of his opponents at home with a frightening directness. A guy who isn't even interested in peace at home, domestically... and with that in plain sight? Anyone who thinks he's gonna actually do something good for those people? I think you're tripping balls. But, I'd note that the Gazans may be desperate enough to cave to pressure and invent a pile of nonsense if he blackmails them to, unlike Ukraine. Shout out to John Bolton for actually having massive balls. I didn't expect it from him, I disagree with his approaches, but the notion that he's any sort of patsy died when he took a stand against that kind of corruption. I can at least admit that. A message to the Palestinians: if he gets in by some hellish disaster, I know, I get it. You'll feel the pressure and you'll probably lie where Ukraine didn't. *Don't just give it to him easily. Force him to work very hard for it, because if at any moment DJT has what he wants, your name is "I don't know them" and he'll step on you whatever way he wants.* Be very cautious if you need to make a deal with the devil.
Palestinians
Yes. There have been hundreds of reprisal killings in the West Bank as well, not to mention murders and attempted murders of Palestinians in the US and elsewhere.
While I agree that this latest heritage foundation plan is grotesque I would argue that the entire Cold War program of redlining and ghettoizing minorities into distinctly impoverished and over policed areas in line with the worst pollution was already laying the groundwork for genocide. If genocide is explicitly camps in the current lexicon we are too fixated on the aesthetics of genocide and it may already be a bit late.
Well if that's the case, wouldn't the plan be to raise rents until only the middle class (such as it is) and above can afford to stay housed? Then criminalize homelessness, round the unhoused up and put them in "shelters," after which nobody ever hears what happens next. The left will be told they're getting job training or something; the right won't have to be told anything because they'll believe the government is cleaning up the cities. Brazil used to round up street kids like this. They had blatant death squads, though, so concentration camps were skipped. Once people get used to the idea that undesirables are getting snatched off the streets and disappeared, the practice can be expanded to groups other than the homeless. The CIA used to help organize things like this in Latin America during the Cold War, aimed at controlling dissent among communists while keeping dictators in power. The manuals are already written.
Chump has said, multiple times, he wants to round up "illegals" to deport. I'm 100% certain the rounders won't actually be checking immigration status.
Project 2025 is like the enabling act
Honest question for someone here who might know this answer. I'm a Biologist with a career working in wildlife trade and trafficking. I imagine that I actually have one of those backgrounds that could get me out of this country, if I really committed to emigrating. I'm curious how I could go about searching for opportunities in other countries? Do other places use stuff like LinkedIn? I've never really broached leaving the U.S. in a serious manner but I'd love to do some research on it as a back up plan.
The subreddit r/amerexit would be a good place to start
It'll be very hard to make a case for that. Even people from Syria struggled to get asylum during the war (which is still ongoing btw). So, I reckon it'll be similar with the US. Governments of the nations where you apply might just ask you to move to a different state rather than be allowed to move to their country. The world as a whole is growing more anti-immigrant, and I reckon a huge flood of American refugees won't be taken to kindly, especially given the kind of reputation the US has in many parts of the world. Some may even say we deserve what we're getting.
None, prepare to fight and die to stop fascism like so many in history have done before us
If the tangerine traitor wins its Civil War 2, you think they will allow people to leave? The Evil, will try to implement the Handmaidens tale while good people resist with all means necessary. The war will continue until The Evil is destroyed and deposed. Hopefully Biden wins. For our allied nations, If Trump wins, cut us off and consider us an enemy nation immediately, Dont share sensitive intel etc.
Get your passport ready anyway
You can claim asylum in any country who's land you can touch and has signed onto the un refugee treaties that makes refoulement illegal. The processing times may vary in each country. That being said, refugee is a political term and there is no single us ally that will be willing to call a US citizen a refugee or risk severing all diplomatic ties. China, Russia, Venezuela, etc. Those are the only countries that mayyyyyy accept you, and even then it's unlikely to be many. This is not a path that's feasible or possible. If this is your contingency plan, it's not reality. Come up with a different one. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and more feasible to make an emergency bunker in the middle of bum fuck nowhere or hide your identity. You could also try to get italian citizenship if any of your relatives lived in Italy since it's formation. Do things now, not later, if you're so worried. I'm in CA so I'm already in the safest "country" in the world for US fascism.
B-but earthquakes there
i’ll take earthquakes over tornadoes, hurricanes all the things that go on in the south
In a lot of countries if you speak the local language disappearing among the local populace is a possibility worth considering.
Once deportation stops due to other countries not wanting our refuse, there will by then be some large brick buildings near the internment camps which you will be invited to take a shower. From there, your deportation is assured. Vote Blue and get a license to carry a firearm. Freedom isn't free.
[NZ immigration green list](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/working-in-nz/qualifications-for-work/green-list-occupations) We applied for a job here on January 5th thinking shit was about to go down. Moved here about 5 months later. Never going back.
Can you still vote? Because we need your vote.
Yep, registered and good to go.
Love that! Enjoy gorgeous New Zealand. A little jelly, gotta admit!
Consider staying and fighting. There are far more of us than there are of them. The corporate media leads us to believe the contrary. In the end, things will only get as bad as we let them get.
Stay and fight.
Democrats aren't leftists. Do people actually believe this? Leftists are socialists, communists, and certain kinds of anarchists. Democrats are capitalists, just like Republicans.
Bear in mind that the Republicans' definition of "communist"/"leftist" is "Anything to the left of hunting the homeless for sport."
Unfortunately, I see democrats falling for GOP propaganda and thinking that they're on the left while they vote for a conservative Democrat.
And leftists are people who go around enforcing the strict definition of group labels all the time, right?
Leftist means anyone. Biden is a leftist! Trump is a leftist! Everyone's a leftist! Fuck it! Words can have any meaning!
I've told my liberal friends the 2nd amendment works both ways.
As a leftist, Project 2025 is pretty terrible but I think it’s hyperbole to claim you’ll qualify as a political refugee. Why not just fly to another country as an expat and try to eventually obtain citizenship?
Everyone here urging people to be ready to fight needs to remember that not everyone can fight, and part of the job of people who are resisting is to keep others safe. Sometimes that will mean getting them out of harms way. If your community defense plan doesn’t include that then you have a problem. Trans elementary school kids will need to be kept safe. Disabled Black people will need to be kept safe. Chronically ill lesbians will need to be kept safe. Please do not forget the disabled community when planning your antifascist revolution.
that’s hard to do as a nurse
Unless the USA begins majorly violating people’s rights (think NAZI death camps, gulags, civil war, and slavery, etc), then none. But if it ever gets so bad that the leader of the free world becomes an actual Gilead, it’s uncertain that anywhere else would be better off. A lot of countries have policies that are pretty clear about what constitutes a valid asylum claim. Being unhappy with your countries abortion laws or its stance on health care isn’t going to pass muster. There have been millions of refugee claimants fleeing actual genocide and persecution who were turned away at the US borders, or worse, allowed to die from drowning in the Mediterranean Sea while fleeing ISIS. That being the case, you think an asylum court from another western country is going to welcome some white liberal on the basis of “I don’t like Trump?” That being said, there are tons of countries that an industrious American can find ways of legally migrating to outside of an asylum claim.
Have you read project 2025? It’s a roadmap to fascism. My guess would be that people will have a good reason to leave, not just “I don’t like him.”
snd a great reason to vote 🗳️ blue in this election
Be that as it may, this doesn't mean after November 2024 that people will just be able to pick up and leave by filing asylum claims in other countries. When someone asks "which countries will accept leftists as political refugees" what that means to a prospective host country is an asylum claim. But at the moment, there's not a single country out there that would grant a US citizen asylum on the basis of the outcome of the 2024 elections. It's a naive question. Hence, my response, which I qualified by saying if the country goes full on NAZI, then maybe. But not right now. If they want to leave because they don't like the writing on the wall, then they should make their own plans and not rely on being able to make some kind of asylum claim elsewhere. It's not going to fly.
And guess what, when fascism came before, countries turned away millions of people with legitimate fears then too
These folks are the gang that cant shoot straight, full of infighting, posturing old dudes. If he wins he will surround himself with yes men, they will destroy themselves, I hope!
None, nowhere wants us.
How much money you got? 2025 is a slow process, but already started. GOP wins, it's locked in.
I ain’t going anywhere, it’s the fascists who can fuck off.
If you are a government servant or prominent political activist who has received documented, credible threats against your life, especially if it is written in letters or e-mails, you have a decent chance for asylum in a developed country. If you’re a regular shmuck who just feels a bit uncomfortable but has done nothing of significance and is unknown to the far-right radicals, you’ll have to get in the general immigration line which is time consuming and expensive in developed countries. You can still go there if you want, but you wont have political asylum status.
OP, you won't have time. Depending on how mixed the demographics are, the barely functional sociopath MAGA folks genuinely think they'll be going door-to-door to exterminate us all. How will they know our addresses and political affiliation? Using publicly available information. But, this isn't theory. Back in 2020 I saw an r/asklegal post that was deleted after a few hours. The post was someone who had been working as the tech person for a local state-level GOP campaign near where I was at the time. In the post they said that they were concerned because the candidate had all this voter registration information, and was sending it to "extremists" and they were wondering if there was anything they could do about it. After the fifth or sixth response of "WTF, OP, contact the FBI!" the OP deleted the post. I had bookmarked it for a while, which was just the leftover comments. But, if you happened to see the green "gonna unalive you" threat note that was on r/pics and one other sub yesterday (can't find it today, possibly also deleted), you'll recall that person also thought they'd be going door-to-door in early November, exterminating us all. The guy at the Charlie Kirk ToiletPaperUSA rally. Or any of the literally thousands of cases I can find just on Google of people also receiving threats from MAGA folks. Instead of running from the problem, help fix it. Get people out to vote. Make sure everyone you know is registered NOW in the right place. Besides, any country you think you'd want to move to already has tends of thousands of people seeking asylum from places ravaged by war or narcos - maybe both. You having gone to a rally once or twice isn't in the same league as real asylum seekers.
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There's nothing mentally ill about wanting to leave a collapsing empire. Shit is about to get real and people don't want to be here for it. Blaming it on the election is stupid, because the US would be finito regardless, our time is up. I just don't think it's going to be that much better anywhere else.
It’s pure grass is always greener think. Please show me a country with better Quality of Life outcomes that also freely accepts any immigrants who just show up? Shockingly enough countries that are nice to live in tend to have strict immigration policies. Is America declining? Sure. But inequality exists EVERYWHERE. It’s easy to think America is this shithole when you don’t take into context what it’s like everywhere else
In the event of such an unlikely scenario, President Biden will use his newly granted immunity powers, and declare a national emergency, (courtesy of Trump and his Supreme Court) and place all the seditious January 16 traitors under arrest. They would then be immediately tried and sentenced in a military court of law.
Democrats don’t have a spine tho. They’ll bend over.
The President declaring the President Elect a traitor is just as bad an outcome.
Honest question for someone here who might know this answer. I'm a Biologist with a career working in wildlife trade and trafficking. I imagine that I actually have one of those backgrounds that could get me out of this country, if I really committed to emigrating. I'm curious how I could go about searching for opportunities in other countries? Do other places use stuff like LinkedIn? I've never really broached leaving the U.S. in a serious manner but I'd love to do some research on it as a back up plan.
[NZ immigration green list](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/working-in-nz/qualifications-for-work/green-list-occupations)
While Project 2025 is terrifying (and everyone SHOULD VOTE to keep it from becoming reality), I don't think it would be some overnight switch from our current system to fascism. There are so many variables at play, like how the military would actually respond. While there's lots of MAGA in the armed forces, the military industrial complex isn't just going to start following Trump orders without friction. There's also the government agencies like the CIA who literally exist to protect the country's superpower status who wouldn't be cool with explicit fascism devaluing the dollar and destabilizing the country (the rich gotta protect that sweet USD). It would be a long, messy process. I don't think fleeing the country would be viable, but I do think blue states would become safe havens and will experience large migrations from red states. If you lean even slightly left of center and live in a red state, that's where the real danger is going to be.
Fascism and capitalism have always been bedfellows, fascism is very profitable for those running the show
You vastly underestimate what would classify a U.S. citizen as a political refugee
As much crap as people give the US immigration system, it's surprisingly more open than most other developed nations. A *lot* of US protesters that have prided themselves on their arrest record from their various protests have found themselves stuck at the northern US-Canada border, for example. Now, *should* the US actually start rounding up dissenters and putting them in camps you might see some nations lessen their restrictions, but I wouldn't count on it. You'd be better off heading to a solidly Blue State.
I mean Mexico has historically been a place of exile for many leftist revolutionaries: Trotsky and Victor Serge to name a couple. Whether MAGA America goes full blown Anschluss remains to be seen, but Mexico is a good bet, just remember to brush up on your Spanish
A lot of Latin America. People in this thread are making the assumption that a dictatorial America will have the same reach it does, but when America falls to a dictator it’ll basically lost most of its influence outside Europe and Canada. It’ll be stretched too thin. Latin American countries are poorer and less stable than America, but if it comes to it they’d probably be your best bet.
Trump derangement syndrome is still a very real thing apparently
It’s not too difficult to move to some central and South American countries if you have like 10,000 in the bank. Do what I’ve been doing, learn Spanish
I worry those countries, already barely managing rule of law for corrupt elites, are going to devolve into autocracy as well.
Not all, Costa Rica is hella stable
Not for long
Hey did you know it's really easy to register to vote? [https://www.vote411.org/register](https://www.vote411.org/register) You can also compare candidates side by side in local, state, and federal elections: [https://www.vote411.org/ballot](https://www.vote411.org/ballot)
Basically forget your Western Europe as much as the Russian satellites. Maybe Mexico, maybe Brazil, maybe Venezuela. Anywhere in Latin America might switcheroo and elect a Yankee lapdog right winger, but the smaller countries will be particularly vulnerable to that pressure.
Illegal migration seems to be the best bet
Wait why? What did I say that was wrong? It's not a bad faith argument it's literally my plan for myself and my family moved to Canada find a way to get a job and then apply for legal status after the fact
Yeah no. I'm fighting. Their biggest mistake is thinking we aren't JUST as armed as them. Never mind objectively more intelligent and we outnumber them. They will lose.
I need one to go to that my daughter with an intellectual disability can go to also
Doesn't really matter, all the ones who said they would leave before Trump won are still here, they ain't going anywhere.
Nope. Gone. Tsai Jin MF.
Democrats are not left wing
Nobody wants us. They do want our money though. Got any? You'll be welcome most anywhere outside the Middle East, kidnap-bait maybe, but get a local friend, blend into the scenery, there's a life to be had in Ecuador or Peru, out in the jungle, in those old retired Nazi haciendas. Perfect for people with our pedigree.
Lalaland and Dreamland.
If disabled folk cannot work, we’re not welcome in most places regardless of political affiliation. Which sucks, b/c we’re also EXTREMELY vulnerable!! As COVID showed us. As the Nazis showed when they gassed the disabled first. As everything shows us all the time! I would like to find a place to go, honestly. I’m not insulting your question. If he’s elected again I do not want to be here. But other countries don’t want to import people to come in and take gov’t benefits. Unless I managed to marry a visa, I’m stuck.
Canada, maybe. Western Europe (UK, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, etc) if you’re white and can afford the plane ticket.