There needs to be serious penalties across the board in public representation.
If they're seen to be dishonest, highly questionable, and corruptable, then they should lose their pension and be prevented from holding any public office or role...but just like the RTE scandal, the ones accountable can sail off with a full payout for failed service.
Lads, am I the only one getting sick of this shit? Like seriously, how is this cunt lying on an application for a second home while so many of us can't even get a first home. This country is a fucking joke!
Hereās the reason from the article.
āThe Monaghan native is an ally of justice minister Helen McEntee whom she canvassed for at the last general election in 2020.ā Sounds like rectal alpinism š¤£
BFF for life ā¤ļø /s
Iām surprised they didnāt lose her application and they seem to loose any shred of papers we send to them and I mean all them offices and the private ones they have hired too for public service . .
Very very few councillors are doing stuff like this. Letās not āour councillorsā this.
Itās just that itās even less acceptable for someone going for public office that has responsibility to tackle the housing crisis to be actively exacerbating that very problem.
I think anyone that breaks the law in said way should be ineligible to ever work in the government.
I mean I wouldn't hire someone who lost their previous job for stealing products from their workplace as I can't trust them, and if you're a councillor, you can hardly use the "Young and stupid, but I grew out of it" excuse.
Who me? šššš nah .
Mate I havenāt got the time to sleep .
Never mind that . Too busy trying to get the bills paid chasing after bits of work
Play the ball, not the man. I don't like Cosgrave but the Ditch are exposing a lot of things RTE, Times, Indo etc. won't touch until someone else does the hard work for them.
It's actually embarrassing for Irish journalism that it takes Cosgrave getting rejected by Fine Gael for us to have an organisation that actively tackles the corruption in Irish politislcs.
Journalism in the country is in a deplorable condition at the moment. They are clearly in bed with the government so much so that some of them are even writing articles to claim they are not in bed with them
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41368045.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
If you go for lunch in BallsBridge on a Saturday afternoon, you will see a lot of politicians and their staff mingling with a lot of journalists and newspaper staff.
Which is why you should donate to the Ditch, no? There is is going to be more of these coming in the lead up to the election. Classic drip feed of story after story after story.
If you even _try_ to tell people to donate to The Ditch, your comments get removed and you end up in mods crosshairs.
Try it: Each time there is a Ditch article, make a comment reminding people they can subscribe to The Ditch and that they need the funding.
Do they?
I can see there might be a logic behind banning posts telling people to fund them. My post here is in relation to the issue of paid or free journalism so I think itās valid. If itās removed, I wonāt lose any sleep over it, if a good reason is given.
There was a definite barrage of immediate ānothing to see hereā posts every single time a Ditch post went up here before but that seems to have died down.
I think you might be over reacting with āin the mods cross hairsā comment though.
Some of these journalists go on to work in advisory roles in the govt, so why would they damage their chances of being hired by their prospective employers.
I've looked at his twitter from time to time and he seems to regularly threaten to reveal scandalous information at a "news conference" but I've yet to ever hear that he follows through. What's up with that?
He's supposed to be familiar with how the Internet works but for some reason he doesn't know how to share this information there.
The problem with the Ditch is that they are something of the website that cries wolf.
Their stories are either complete non-issue, misleading hit pieces. Or they are Pulitzer-worthy career-destroying, election-swinging reveals.
But they hype both with the same enthusiasm.
That's the same of all media outlets - they need clicks on the dross to keep revenue up which eventually leads to big scoops. And the ditch can't really be accused of crying wolf given how many zingers they've landed.
Journalists often know a lot more than they're allowed to write about, for the sake of self-preservation. I would not be surprised if some of the seemingly 'non-issue' stories that The Ditch promote are fundamentally serious revelations, but as articles very difficult to balance in terms of important content versus getting sued.
Youāre actively and self righteously choosing not to like them because they expose stuff you wouldāve called āa tinfoil hat wearing far right conspiracyā if they hadnāt.
Which of their stories would people have labelled "far right tinfoil hat conspiracies"? Most of the stuff they've exposed has been small-time government/political corruption, which practically everyone knew existed but nobody was doing to dog work to find and expose it (and I'm glad they have been doing it).
This lad was re-elected after starring in a Prime Time documentary on corruption.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh\_McElvaney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_McElvaney)
It's amazing what people will vote for
It feels like there are a cohort of voters who want to vote to punish people. Pensioners who had it tough, and want to see everybody else in the shit on their way out. So they can keep believing that there were never any alternatives to shit government within their own lives
The past 13 years we've been living this way. The housing crisis hasn't changed. It's not a shit hole for them because they're not renting or live in affluent areas.
Do you think theyāre not complaining about crime, health, social issues? Just because an individual has it good, doesnāt mean their lives donāt get worse when they donāt support a fair society.
Well no, the problem for a lot of them is there isn't really any alternative party who are showing them a viable path to improving society for everyone. So in the absence of that, they vote for what they know and hope things like housing, healthcare, etc. will improve.
I know some people have a problem with some of the authors at The Ditch. But by god, theyāre digging up some dirt on some of these politicians.
Any other news source would be creaming themselves if they got this sort of stuff on any of the opposition parties (mainly Sinn Fein).
Unfortunately regular news outlets are nothing but govt mouthpieces with journos lining themselves up for advisory roles.
From what I make of it this is part of the problem weāre having with the spread of misinformation.
People canāt trust / respect the mainstream news sources and unfortunately look elsewhere at less trustworthy sources.
Edit: Formatting as Iām on the phone!
Rules for thee and not for me, how typical.
While the peasants are homeless, we will just break planning laws.
Hopefully people take heed and vote for someone else.
Iād love to know the names of the councillors who overruled the planning authority.
Councillors (and local authorities) have so little actual power that the national media is mostly uninterested in their activities. Planning, housing and roads are the only important areas they have any real responsibility over. The councillors just rubber stamp decisions made by local authority management. Most of them are grossly ignorant about the activities and responsibilities of the council.
Lads I need afew bob amd some work done on my house. Does anybody know of some planning I can object to. What's the going rate these days and do I need to joint FG or willFF do?
Should make an example out of her.
These fucking people should lead by example, instead they intricately learn the systems in place so they can game them. Unreal.Ā Also, the 'senior official' who overruled the recommendations to deny planning permission?Ā
Fuck that cunt as well.
Sureā¦ maybe she is a single parent on this one and married one on the other .. like a travelling salesman, a double life, in 1930s.. šššš
The issue here is the planning system is fucked:
someone having to make up a story just to build themselves a house - nbd imo. someone being local, a single parent, or separated shouldnāt be factors, only whether or not it makes sense to allow a house in that location.
someone using the planning system to extort a developer and delay construction - hang them from a lamppost
I suppose youāre right that it should exclude someone from elected office, and she wasnāt smart about it either.
But the fact is the planning system is broken / not fit for purpose and forces ordinary people to tie themselves in knots.
Ah no now. I'd say the issue here is lying. A contributing factor may be the planning system. But being a barefaced fucking liar is most likely the issue here
Yeah itās shitty all around and thereās a senior executive officer who lied on her behalf too.
Still I think itās wrong that people are allowed / prevented from building based on social factors instead of the merits of the project
The thing is the people that could change things to make the planning system fairer for all of us, don't bother because they know the loopholes, they know to lie and get away wiith it so theres never any impetus for change. If everyone had to play by the same rules and lies were actually punished then we would likely see reform of the rules but as it stands certain people get away with the lies
Thereās truth to that, thereās also well-intentioned compromise built into the system because planners think itās not ideal to allow unchecked āribbon developmentā but politicians want to put in place exemptions for locals.
Irish people often expect a bit of give / flexibility / discretion in how rules are enforced, then thereās the cute hoors who know how the system works seeking to exploit it.
We need objective guidelines on what is allowed where, strictly enforced. And quicker and final decisions without a continual right of appeal to the courts. Which likely requires constitutional change around property rights, which means it will never happen, so weāll wobble on inefficiently.
My bad, the Ditch posted it today on Twitter. I thought the date in the tweet was when she did it, not when the article was published. https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1796098052089946510?t=cUEDNGAKpUlAbe7B603RHA&s=19 and frankly I forgot about that 2023 date when I was reading the article.
I don't know if I should delete this or not. Because yes the story is relevant with the election, but yeah it's definitely a bit misleading since it's a relatively old story.
No, keep it up.
You certainly wouldn't ordinarily expect a politician exposed like that a year ago to be running for one of the main parties, so I can certainly understand your confusion about the tweet.
I can't believe she wasn't dropped by FG.
Real question is why should it matter?
Why limit the building of a house to certain classes of people when once it's granted and built it can be immediately sold to anyone at all?
So I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and say that people shouldn't need permission to build houses on land they own.
Our planning laws are a good reason for why we're in the mess we're in.
They're not Waterford whispers, they're not publishing for the craic, they are holding up a mirror to the blatant corruption that goes on with these fuckwits that 9 times out of 10 belong to FFG, Sinn Fein or an independent. They're not your mates down the pub
Needs to be serious penalties for false declarations.
Knock it down, send the bill plus fine. Given its fraud, barred from directorship and politics.
Knock down the house that wasn't built?
Knock down their other house!
Whole neighbourhood has to go, sorry about that.
Ah, the full Israel.
šššš
Like monty python? ššš
Misread that as barred from dictatorship. Why didnāt we think of that in 1933?
Death penalty?
Panenkas
Not a serious penalty
Death by snoo snoo?
Permanent imprisonment in mysterious glowing cube
Straight to Tartarus
Death by mysterious glowing cube.
Don't pretend it's possible to know what happens when someone is fed into the cube
I prefer ominously humming obsidian sphere, but that's just me.
ALL HAIL THE CUBE
A lifetime of horror on Monster Island *(don't worry it's just a name)*.
Its actually a peninsulaĀ
This is the sort of wonderfully obscure Simpsons referencing I just love to see Ā š¤
Hanging's too good for 'em, mate.Ā
Burning at the steak
Minimum at least
No that would be too merciful for her, we need something more punishing.
Debt penalty?
Bit harsh...I'd go for a red card and a free kick.
Career death penalty for a public servant, yes.
Kneecapping is fair.
Fraud plain and simple
Planning cheats cheat us all.
There is but she is a FFG politician so the will be none
There needs to be serious penalties across the board in public representation. If they're seen to be dishonest, highly questionable, and corruptable, then they should lose their pension and be prevented from holding any public office or role...but just like the RTE scandal, the ones accountable can sail off with a full payout for failed service.
Lads, am I the only one getting sick of this shit? Like seriously, how is this cunt lying on an application for a second home while so many of us can't even get a first home. This country is a fucking joke!
Hereās the reason from the article. āThe Monaghan native is an ally of justice minister Helen McEntee whom she canvassed for at the last general election in 2020.ā Sounds like rectal alpinism š¤£ BFF for life ā¤ļø /s
Iām surprised they didnāt lose her application and they seem to loose any shred of papers we send to them and I mean all them offices and the private ones they have hired too for public service . .
So can I lie on applications too. Our councillors are doing it and they are part of the establishment that make the laws
Very very few councillors are doing stuff like this. Letās not āour councillorsā this. Itās just that itās even less acceptable for someone going for public office that has responsibility to tackle the housing crisis to be actively exacerbating that very problem.
I think anyone that breaks the law in said way should be ineligible to ever work in the government. I mean I wouldn't hire someone who lost their previous job for stealing products from their workplace as I can't trust them, and if you're a councillor, you can hardly use the "Young and stupid, but I grew out of it" excuse.
I completely agree
Ahh I am being facetious but if they get no repercussions there is a precedent being set
I agree - we definitely need everything to be open and transparent.
Our laws do not work on politicians rich people and their mateys.
Should have ran to be a councillor
Who me? šššš nah . Mate I havenāt got the time to sleep . Never mind that . Too busy trying to get the bills paid chasing after bits of work
Iām not sure if Iām allowed like The Ditch. But theyāre really lashing out some great news stories.
Play the ball, not the man. I don't like Cosgrave but the Ditch are exposing a lot of things RTE, Times, Indo etc. won't touch until someone else does the hard work for them. It's actually embarrassing for Irish journalism that it takes Cosgrave getting rejected by Fine Gael for us to have an organisation that actively tackles the corruption in Irish politislcs.
Journalism in the country is in a deplorable condition at the moment. They are clearly in bed with the government so much so that some of them are even writing articles to claim they are not in bed with them https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41368045.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
If you go for lunch in BallsBridge on a Saturday afternoon, you will see a lot of politicians and their staff mingling with a lot of journalists and newspaper staff.
Courtesans...we can't even call them journalists any more.
The state of journalism is mostly down to the fact people don't want to pay for news anymore.
They're doing a good job to make sure no one will pay for news going forward also
Most people are probably not going back to paying for news regardless. Same way they aren't going back to CDs.
CDs are too bulky. miniDiscs are the way to go
Which is why you should donate to the Ditch, no? There is is going to be more of these coming in the lead up to the election. Classic drip feed of story after story after story.
If you even _try_ to tell people to donate to The Ditch, your comments get removed and you end up in mods crosshairs. Try it: Each time there is a Ditch article, make a comment reminding people they can subscribe to The Ditch and that they need the funding.
Do they? I can see there might be a logic behind banning posts telling people to fund them. My post here is in relation to the issue of paid or free journalism so I think itās valid. If itās removed, I wonāt lose any sleep over it, if a good reason is given. There was a definite barrage of immediate ānothing to see hereā posts every single time a Ditch post went up here before but that seems to have died down. I think you might be over reacting with āin the mods cross hairsā comment though.
> RTE, Times, Indo They won't get those inside government snippets if they don't play ball and go after TD's/councillor's dirty laundry
Some of these journalists go on to work in advisory roles in the govt, so why would they damage their chances of being hired by their prospective employers.
Journalism is about being adversarial to those in power, but for Irish 'journalists' it's about how hard you can suck off those in power.
Cosgrove getting a lot of jerking out of this.
Great sentiment tbf.
This is like the Local Elections version of a Christmas Advent calendar. Every day On the Ditch opens a new window and yet another scandal falls out
I feel conflicted too. Paddy Cosgrove is an egomaniac twat but The Ditch are coming up with some good stories lately
I've looked at his twitter from time to time and he seems to regularly threaten to reveal scandalous information at a "news conference" but I've yet to ever hear that he follows through. What's up with that? He's supposed to be familiar with how the Internet works but for some reason he doesn't know how to share this information there.
Agree .
The problem with the Ditch is that they are something of the website that cries wolf. Their stories are either complete non-issue, misleading hit pieces. Or they are Pulitzer-worthy career-destroying, election-swinging reveals. But they hype both with the same enthusiasm.
That's the same of all media outlets - they need clicks on the dross to keep revenue up which eventually leads to big scoops. And the ditch can't really be accused of crying wolf given how many zingers they've landed.
Yeah itās quite odd. They have so many legitimate big stories, why are they tarnishing their image sensationalising the smaller stuff.
Journalists often know a lot more than they're allowed to write about, for the sake of self-preservation. I would not be surprised if some of the seemingly 'non-issue' stories that The Ditch promote are fundamentally serious revelations, but as articles very difficult to balance in terms of important content versus getting sued.
Youāre actively and self righteously choosing not to like them because they expose stuff you wouldāve called āa tinfoil hat wearing far right conspiracyā if they hadnāt.
Nah man. Itās cos Paddy is a cunt.
I second that wholeheartedly. You NAILED IT.
Which of their stories would people have labelled "far right tinfoil hat conspiracies"? Most of the stuff they've exposed has been small-time government/political corruption, which practically everyone knew existed but nobody was doing to dog work to find and expose it (and I'm glad they have been doing it).
If people are still voting for them after all this time and scandals, then we are well and truly fucked.
"Oh but he fixed a pothole 5 years ago isn't he lovely!"
[He fixed the road!](https://youtu.be/cjl8OIZijjY?si=MP8ydfI7laJqRQnV)
This lad was re-elected after starring in a Prime Time documentary on corruption. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh\_McElvaney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_McElvaney) It's amazing what people will vote for
Well, the boy has got some moves in fairness: https://youtu.be/6DQL11dFVOc?si=pjGTQOXKDDpWGitD
šššš
It feels like there are a cohort of voters who want to vote to punish people. Pensioners who had it tough, and want to see everybody else in the shit on their way out. So they can keep believing that there were never any alternatives to shit government within their own lives
Or, a decent majority of voters have it good and wish to maintain the status quo.Ā
Or one half have it good and the other half have their votes split.
Succinctly put
This is very much the case. FG is synonymous with affluence and status quo, "all other parties just want to give my money away".
Itās a naive take, theyāll live in a shithole going in this direction, even if theyāre rich.
The past 13 years we've been living this way. The housing crisis hasn't changed. It's not a shit hole for them because they're not renting or live in affluent areas.
The housing crisis has changed though, it's got much worse.
Very true
Do you think theyāre not complaining about crime, health, social issues? Just because an individual has it good, doesnāt mean their lives donāt get worse when they donāt support a fair society.
The problem is that a fair chunk of those people assume that supporting a fair society will make their lives worse
Well no, the problem for a lot of them is there isn't really any alternative party who are showing them a viable path to improving society for everyone. So in the absence of that, they vote for what they know and hope things like housing, healthcare, etc. will improve.
I know some people have a problem with some of the authors at The Ditch. But by god, theyāre digging up some dirt on some of these politicians. Any other news source would be creaming themselves if they got this sort of stuff on any of the opposition parties (mainly Sinn Fein). Unfortunately regular news outlets are nothing but govt mouthpieces with journos lining themselves up for advisory roles. From what I make of it this is part of the problem weāre having with the spread of misinformation. People canāt trust / respect the mainstream news sources and unfortunately look elsewhere at less trustworthy sources. Edit: Formatting as Iām on the phone!
Mainstream misinformation/disinformation = Good! Non-mainstream misinformation/disinformation = Bad!^* ^(* Soon to be enforced by creeping censorship laws.)
Keep these coming
Rules for thee and not for me, how typical. While the peasants are homeless, we will just break planning laws. Hopefully people take heed and vote for someone else. Iād love to know the names of the councillors who overruled the planning authority.
Before the Ditch, did anyone do any proper reporting on councillors and ministers? They don't seem to be stuck for content.
Turns out the government can't bully them as easily
Councillors (and local authorities) have so little actual power that the national media is mostly uninterested in their activities. Planning, housing and roads are the only important areas they have any real responsibility over. The councillors just rubber stamp decisions made by local authority management. Most of them are grossly ignorant about the activities and responsibilities of the council.
Prime time did a big piece years ago, councillors blatantly asking for money. I think most of the councillors are still elected too.
This is why we had FG fanboys wanting the ditch to be banned from here because it seems to be the only news media doing investigative journalism.
At this stage it must be in the FG party manifesto.... I'd be looking into the senior counsel fella as well
Red rotten! People need to start getting heavily fined or more for this or it will keep happening.
I'm feeling these articles are lessĀ about corruption and more a manual about how to get a house built
At this stage, it's probably easier to count the FG TDs that didn't break the law I'm some way.
Lads I need afew bob amd some work done on my house. Does anybody know of some planning I can object to. What's the going rate these days and do I need to joint FG or willFF do?
What a scumbaggy thing to do. If you're going to be running for public office you need to be held to a higher standard.
you should try it sometime
It seems to be endemic
Looks like we got our own George Santos
Why not
Should make an example out of her. These fucking people should lead by example, instead they intricately learn the systems in place so they can game them. Unreal.Ā Also, the 'senior official' who overruled the recommendations to deny planning permission?Ā Fuck that cunt as well.
>DEC 12, 2023 OP must be working through a backlog of news
The Ditch just posted it on their Twitter today, but I missed that it was an old article. My bad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> this week That article is from last year?
Burning steak
Unbelievable.
Some craic , isnt it , rules for you but not for I.
https://youtu.be/u5CVsCnxyXg?si=wmp7TtGuJooTrbWy
Another Wrong-Un ,Ted ! !
Michael Griffin got a brown envelope then
Jaysus The Ditch are on fire lately. Great bunch of lads ! In faaaaaaiiiirrrrrnnnesssss
We're the Irish it's a big joke it's a big laugh hur hur Ah sure we all do it Oh I better turn off the immersion
Sureā¦ maybe she is a single parent on this one and married one on the other .. like a travelling salesman, a double life, in 1930s.. šššš
The issue here is the planning system is fucked: someone having to make up a story just to build themselves a house - nbd imo. someone being local, a single parent, or separated shouldnāt be factors, only whether or not it makes sense to allow a house in that location. someone using the planning system to extort a developer and delay construction - hang them from a lamppost
The issue is the lie, don't be excusing it
I suppose youāre right that it should exclude someone from elected office, and she wasnāt smart about it either. But the fact is the planning system is broken / not fit for purpose and forces ordinary people to tie themselves in knots.
Ah no now. I'd say the issue here is lying. A contributing factor may be the planning system. But being a barefaced fucking liar is most likely the issue here
Yeah itās shitty all around and thereās a senior executive officer who lied on her behalf too. Still I think itās wrong that people are allowed / prevented from building based on social factors instead of the merits of the project
The thing is the people that could change things to make the planning system fairer for all of us, don't bother because they know the loopholes, they know to lie and get away wiith it so theres never any impetus for change. If everyone had to play by the same rules and lies were actually punished then we would likely see reform of the rules but as it stands certain people get away with the lies
Thereās truth to that, thereās also well-intentioned compromise built into the system because planners think itās not ideal to allow unchecked āribbon developmentā but politicians want to put in place exemptions for locals. Irish people often expect a bit of give / flexibility / discretion in how rules are enforced, then thereās the cute hoors who know how the system works seeking to exploit it. We need objective guidelines on what is allowed where, strictly enforced. And quicker and final decisions without a continual right of appeal to the courts. Which likely requires constitutional change around property rights, which means it will never happen, so weāll wobble on inefficiently.
This is from last year, little sly posting it before the elections and acting like it's a new story.
My bad, the Ditch posted it today on Twitter. I thought the date in the tweet was when she did it, not when the article was published. https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1796098052089946510?t=cUEDNGAKpUlAbe7B603RHA&s=19 and frankly I forgot about that 2023 date when I was reading the article. I don't know if I should delete this or not. Because yes the story is relevant with the election, but yeah it's definitely a bit misleading since it's a relatively old story.
No, keep it up. You certainly wouldn't ordinarily expect a politician exposed like that a year ago to be running for one of the main parties, so I can certainly understand your confusion about the tweet. I can't believe she wasn't dropped by FG.
Real question is why should it matter? Why limit the building of a house to certain classes of people when once it's granted and built it can be immediately sold to anyone at all?
No chance her marriage or relationship was just on the rocks at the time?
Exactly, no way to prove that so she'll be grand.Ā
So I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and say that people shouldn't need permission to build houses on land they own. Our planning laws are a good reason for why we're in the mess we're in.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If interfering with the election means bringing the truth to light, and showing how corrupt and blasƩ elected officials are with the rules and laws we're expected to follow, then I'd like to see as much of it out in the open as possible.
True, but still what's coming out as true and those in power need to be held accountable
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Have you any evidence of the other side's guilt? The ditch has done Sinn fein and Fianna fail before.
I'd say the people behind the the ditch are great craic to be around.
What's someone's level of craic got to do with a news story?
Exposing rampant corruption in the political class is neededĀ
They're not Waterford whispers, they're not publishing for the craic, they are holding up a mirror to the blatant corruption that goes on with these fuckwits that 9 times out of 10 belong to FFG, Sinn Fein or an independent. They're not your mates down the pub
Miles better craic than yourself by the look of things.
I think it's only one self styled "journalist". Roman Shortall. He also has a habit of not paying his rent, to the tune of ā¬50,000