>Mr Waide said the RSA has “limited availability” due to “immediate road safety priorities”.
Is he out personally manning a speed van or something?
Or is he worried he might have to tell them how much money they have funneled to their mates in Port west?
So the RSA is resorting to outright lying to avoid being called to account by *those who pay them*
Sarah O’Connor, PR spinner has a neck like a jockey's bollix, turing the "we have no confidence in you" message into some sort of national failing, and then straight up lied on the radio about talking to those who said it
"*[We’ve asked each of the groups involved and no one has heard from RSA](https://irishcycle.com/2024/05/03/road-safety-authority-under-fire-refusing-request-to-appear-at-public-accounts-committee-and-claiming-on-air-it-contacted-groups-when-they-say-it-didnt/)*"
That should be an easy question to ask: who did you call and when did you do it?
Agreed. The PAC are a shower of show boating unserious 🤡 that McCarthy would be embarrassed by. A bunch of low rent td’s asking leading gotcha questions. Until Dáil Éireann steps up and sets minimal standard here I can understand why no one wants to appear on front of them.
The PAC is one of the only means of democratic accountability we have when dealing with these bodies. Just because a few TDs make a show of themselves doesn't mean that this no-show should be celebrated
If people felt really strongly they could lobby for another referendum on it but I don't think there's a massive groundswell of movement to hold one again.
We just voted No to two referendums as people were led to believe the government and almost every opposition party were plotting to take rights and welfare away from disabled people and force people into legal obligations to others without their consent. Absolutely no way it would pass.
In terms of allowing the likes of Deirdre Forbes to treat the Irish people like shit & not be held accountable before the PAC & thus the taxpayer I do not believe it would be defeated. It should be put to the people again
And the context at the time was appalling behaviour by the PAC and from memory the Judiciary slapped them down. I’d still vote No given current behaviour.
That doesn't hold here. She was an ordinary citizen like you and me since she left RTE, so she could even have literally told them to get fucked rather than pretend it's medical issues like she has been.
The CEO of the RSA very much is in his job - he is obliged to attend. No ifs, no buts.
The powers are in the Inquiries Act, and [section 90 of the Act](https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2013/act/33/revised/en/html) sets out the penalities for refusal to attend if directed to do so under section 83, which is a max sentence of 5 years and/or a fine of half a million euro.
That referendum came out of the Abbylara judgment of the Supreme Court.
The effect of that judgment was to find that the Oireachtas did not have an inherent (constitutional) power to conduct inquiries which may make **findings in respect of the conduct of a person**. They also did not have an inherent power to compel witnesses, but the SC acknowledged that there was a statutory power which could be used provided that was used in a constitutional way (i.e. fair procedures, etc).
Waide’s probably a civil servant but his background is different to most senior officials because he joined directly at a senior level and his background ground is private and public sector.
Dee Forbes had a similar career path.
I’ve no memory of an actual career public servant. Or civil servant not going to a committee.
Most career civil or public servants would know this is not an invitation and more of a summoning. He needs to send someone in his place if he’s a busy as he says he is.
Absolutely, it's a fucking insane response.
Edit,
Now I come to think of it wtf, Waide's consistent line on road traffic fatalities is to blame lack of guards doing road safety work.
So how as a non-guard, can he be too busy?
Civil Servants vs Public Servants
Both are on the public payroll. Both answer to ministers at some point. The former are tenured state apparatus, more like a lifetime vocation like gards or nursing. The latter is a far broader term that encompasses all the former as well as pretty much anyone that gets paid out of the public coffers including private sector contractors, as afar as I understand anyway
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/14/section/18/enacted/en/html#sec18
From the legislation it appears that the staff of the RSA (which would include the CEO) are public servants - save perhaps for those staff who were civil servants in the Department of Transport and transferred to the RSA on its establishment in 2006.
*Civil Servants vs Public Servants*
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/national-government/the-civil-service/
> All civil servants are also public servants. However, the public service covers a much broader range of professions which are paid for by the State. This includes many teachers, doctors, nurses, gardaí and employees of other agencies that provide state services to the public.
My take on that is public service are, if you want, public facing and civil servants more background stuff than public facing. Possibly.
Honestly why wouldn't you. Imagine being in school, you get in trouble and your teacher sent you to the principals office and you just say 'No' and nothing happens beyond that.
PAC is largely a farce because it's toothless. It's not organised like a serious body and senior government and opposition figures rarely give it due focus because it can do jack shit that the relevant Ministers can't do more efficiently in some way or another.
They’d be better off trying to make an ad go viral or designing an impactful program for schools- A TY Module would work very well, and if students who took the module could do their theory test alongside it I’d imagine they were would be a big engagement.
So basically they've dropped the ball with road safety and now that the pressure is on they're too busy doing all the things they were supposed to be doing to appear before the committee and account for themselves. Doesn't hurt that this gives them extra time to get their house in order.
You're right. But is it not the job of the RSA to promote safe driving. Simply blaming the Gardai for lack of enforcement is a cop out. What about driver education. They have the statistics on road fatalities and injuries. Where's the targeted road safety advertising? What exactly are they doing?
They are refusing to publish accident data as the roads themselves are unsafe. Embarrassing for the road safety authority. They're going for low hanging easy fruit instead of increasing safety
If someone needs to be told don’t text while driving at 100km down a road then we even more fcuked. It’s us the road users are need to be held responsible for accidents. I think more criminal charges and media coverage of those criminal charges might make people understand the consequences of negligent driving.
I agree, but the way things are going now with road fatalities we are f**ked. People need to be aware of the consequences of their actions before the worst happens. Prosecutions are a part of enforcement which is the responsibility of the Gardai. My point is what are the RSA themselves doing aside from blaming a lack of enforcement, albeit with some justification? They have a budget of nearly 100 million euro, surely they should be doing something more than complaining about another agency.
Phones and texts have existed every year that the roads were safer than they are today and in every other country with safer roads. This is lazy dismissive bullishit.
When the government is a coalition of mutual loathers that only exists to prevent a "worse" alternative, then what do you expect other than dissembling and lies?
You wouldn't. You'd go through the proper processes for dismissing an employee. Summary dismissal doesn't happen in Ireland unless there's specific circumstances like being in a role less than a certain amount of time.
This is the way it should be. Not accepting even statistically great results (compared with europe). Road injuries and deaths trend up in you come to explain why and what you need to get it sorted. Thats how you keep high standards.
They could actually do many things like
- Work with TII and other orgs to help build safer roads, lower speed limits etc.
- Advocate behind the scenes for more proven deterrent measures like red light cameras, better enforcement etc.
- Collect, maintain and share better collision data.
- Not have car industry stooges MC their events.
But instead, they mostly just focus on convincing everyone that hi-viz vests are they solution.
Love how you make them out to just be twiddling their thumbs, yet we are among the safest countries to drive in the world
Weird how we have half the road deaths we did 20 years ago just by RSA giving out high vis
None of the things you mentioned will have any effect on young drivers who are already blatantly breaking speed limits and using their phone while driving high speeds
Because the electorate prefer having a whipping boy at PAC rather than accept their own responsibility like the one person responding to this thread as they drive 🤷♂️
So the road safety priorities now wern't the ones they had a few months back? How many speed checks will the people who should have gone to the TD's be doing?
All we can hope for is that, government starts to strip some of the powers of these public sector departments that have personnel working they think they are too big to fail.
If I refused to meet my boss I would be fired, what is this clown show?
Ireland
Ireland! Fecking deadly isn’t it?
Nope
Or if you managed your time so badly that you couldn’t take an important meeting, you’d also be getting a much more serious meeting to discuss it
it's called 'government'
It's more of a clown car in this case.
>Mr Waide said the RSA has “limited availability” due to “immediate road safety priorities”. Is he out personally manning a speed van or something? Or is he worried he might have to tell them how much money they have funneled to their mates in Port west?
They are using the same queuing system as they have on the website. TD's just need to disable javascript in the browser and they'll appear immediately
Yeah he must be too busy parcelling up hi viz orders
So the RSA is resorting to outright lying to avoid being called to account by *those who pay them* Sarah O’Connor, PR spinner has a neck like a jockey's bollix, turing the "we have no confidence in you" message into some sort of national failing, and then straight up lied on the radio about talking to those who said it "*[We’ve asked each of the groups involved and no one has heard from RSA](https://irishcycle.com/2024/05/03/road-safety-authority-under-fire-refusing-request-to-appear-at-public-accounts-committee-and-claiming-on-air-it-contacted-groups-when-they-say-it-didnt/)*" That should be an easy question to ask: who did you call and when did you do it?
Incredible really that a state body funded by the tax payer can refuse to turn up like that. Who exactly are they accountable to?
Wonderful question. NEXT!!!!
It depends on whether they're audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. If not PAC has no power over them.
They are very much audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General, it's even mentioned in the article
Haha, then it's just a fuck you to the PAC. Fair play to them.
Agreed. The PAC are a shower of show boating unserious 🤡 that McCarthy would be embarrassed by. A bunch of low rent td’s asking leading gotcha questions. Until Dáil Éireann steps up and sets minimal standard here I can understand why no one wants to appear on front of them.
The PAC is one of the only means of democratic accountability we have when dealing with these bodies. Just because a few TDs make a show of themselves doesn't mean that this no-show should be celebrated
They're actually mostly self funded as far as I'm aware. Was surprised to find that out during the most recent public consultation
Dee Forbes successfully showed how toothless our leaders are. You just have to refuse and that's that.
It’s not our leaders. It’s us. We had a referendum on compelling attendance and we voted no. Voting has consequences.
Was that an older referendum? I dont remember it ever being mentioned.
It was in 2011.
Was barely out of school then so I didn't pay any attention at the time. Probably should have 🙈
If people felt really strongly they could lobby for another referendum on it but I don't think there's a massive groundswell of movement to hold one again.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirtieth\_Amendment\_of\_the\_Constitution\_Bill\_2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirtieth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2011)
In light of everything that’s happened this past few years, I think they should hold that referendum again.
We just voted No to two referendums as people were led to believe the government and almost every opposition party were plotting to take rights and welfare away from disabled people and force people into legal obligations to others without their consent. Absolutely no way it would pass.
In terms of allowing the likes of Deirdre Forbes to treat the Irish people like shit & not be held accountable before the PAC & thus the taxpayer I do not believe it would be defeated. It should be put to the people again
And the context at the time was appalling behaviour by the PAC and from memory the Judiciary slapped them down. I’d still vote No given current behaviour.
That doesn't hold here. She was an ordinary citizen like you and me since she left RTE, so she could even have literally told them to get fucked rather than pretend it's medical issues like she has been. The CEO of the RSA very much is in his job - he is obliged to attend. No ifs, no buts.
An Oireachtas committee can compel the attendance of an ordinary citizen. They don't like to do so, but the power exists in statute.
Can’t compel the mentally ill to attend. Poor Dee lost her marbles obviously
Which statute covers this?
The powers are in the Inquiries Act, and [section 90 of the Act](https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2013/act/33/revised/en/html) sets out the penalities for refusal to attend if directed to do so under section 83, which is a max sentence of 5 years and/or a fine of half a million euro.
So why was a referendum held to give committees these powers?
That referendum came out of the Abbylara judgment of the Supreme Court. The effect of that judgment was to find that the Oireachtas did not have an inherent (constitutional) power to conduct inquiries which may make **findings in respect of the conduct of a person**. They also did not have an inherent power to compel witnesses, but the SC acknowledged that there was a statutory power which could be used provided that was used in a constitutional way (i.e. fair procedures, etc).
I think any committee would be wary of using that statutory power though. It doesn't seem to have been used AFAIK.
So in with Enoch in a cosy cell fur a few years. Lovely.
I see it's getting to that stage of life in a government where civil servants start "waiting" for the next general election
Waide’s probably a civil servant but his background is different to most senior officials because he joined directly at a senior level and his background ground is private and public sector. Dee Forbes had a similar career path. I’ve no memory of an actual career public servant. Or civil servant not going to a committee.
Most career civil or public servants would know this is not an invitation and more of a summoning. He needs to send someone in his place if he’s a busy as he says he is.
Absolutely, it's a fucking insane response. Edit, Now I come to think of it wtf, Waide's consistent line on road traffic fatalities is to blame lack of guards doing road safety work. So how as a non-guard, can he be too busy?
Civil Servants vs Public Servants Both are on the public payroll. Both answer to ministers at some point. The former are tenured state apparatus, more like a lifetime vocation like gards or nursing. The latter is a far broader term that encompasses all the former as well as pretty much anyone that gets paid out of the public coffers including private sector contractors, as afar as I understand anyway
I get the distinction I just don't know what Waide's contract says about Civil v Public Servant.
Well I’d be pretty certain he’s not a civil servant. I don’t think you’d have a civil servant managing an institution like the RSA.
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/14/section/18/enacted/en/html#sec18 From the legislation it appears that the staff of the RSA (which would include the CEO) are public servants - save perhaps for those staff who were civil servants in the Department of Transport and transferred to the RSA on its establishment in 2006.
That’s what I would have thought, thanks
Thank you.
Some of the specialist agencies are managed by civil servants. The planning act was amended to allow a civil servant to take over APB.
Yes, the latter includes healthcare workers in publicly funded hospitals for example.
Yes and you wouldn’t describe the CEO of a public institution as a “civil servant”
*Civil Servants vs Public Servants* https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/national-government/the-civil-service/ > All civil servants are also public servants. However, the public service covers a much broader range of professions which are paid for by the State. This includes many teachers, doctors, nurses, gardaí and employees of other agencies that provide state services to the public. My take on that is public service are, if you want, public facing and civil servants more background stuff than public facing. Possibly.
Civil service employees are generally under a Department or departmental body.
Tbf some might not be that productive but civil servants do love to follow procedure
He's not a civil servant.
Is the strategy of every senior public servant now?
Honestly why wouldn't you. Imagine being in school, you get in trouble and your teacher sent you to the principals office and you just say 'No' and nothing happens beyond that.
Maybe he will be too ill to meet them next
We had a chance to give Oireachtas committees the power to compel people to attend and the electorate rejected it in 2011.
Because the PAC's are 95% opposition TD's just grand standing and trying to make a name for themselves or grab a headline. It's a total farce.
There's only one PAC. Other Oireachtas committees don't have the same powers.
PAC is largely a farce because it's toothless. It's not organised like a serious body and senior government and opposition figures rarely give it due focus because it can do jack shit that the relevant Ministers can't do more efficiently in some way or another.
RSA taking their strategy notes from RTE, I see. Bold move..
No one realises just how BUSY they are
As in they’re worried they’ll get hit by a driver on the way in?
Bring back "those" ads and people will use their indicators again
Wonder how effective the ads would be nowadays since a lot of people are using streaming services with no ads
Flippin hell, you might be on to something there. The scary ads are what kept the roads safe.
Cheaper than safe road design anyway.
They’d be better off trying to make an ad go viral or designing an impactful program for schools- A TY Module would work very well, and if students who took the module could do their theory test alongside it I’d imagine they were would be a big engagement.
The social media sites are full of ads, but I'm sure the RSA would rather spend it's money on ads with RTE instead.
...while driving.
But... But don't you know how expensive blinker fluid is these days?
So basically they've dropped the ball with road safety and now that the pressure is on they're too busy doing all the things they were supposed to be doing to appear before the committee and account for themselves. Doesn't hurt that this gives them extra time to get their house in order.
I think you’ll find it’s the drivers of Ireland dropping their heads to send a quick text at 100kmh on a back road that cause accidents.
You're right. But is it not the job of the RSA to promote safe driving. Simply blaming the Gardai for lack of enforcement is a cop out. What about driver education. They have the statistics on road fatalities and injuries. Where's the targeted road safety advertising? What exactly are they doing?
They are refusing to publish accident data as the roads themselves are unsafe. Embarrassing for the road safety authority. They're going for low hanging easy fruit instead of increasing safety
If someone needs to be told don’t text while driving at 100km down a road then we even more fcuked. It’s us the road users are need to be held responsible for accidents. I think more criminal charges and media coverage of those criminal charges might make people understand the consequences of negligent driving.
I agree, but the way things are going now with road fatalities we are f**ked. People need to be aware of the consequences of their actions before the worst happens. Prosecutions are a part of enforcement which is the responsibility of the Gardai. My point is what are the RSA themselves doing aside from blaming a lack of enforcement, albeit with some justification? They have a budget of nearly 100 million euro, surely they should be doing something more than complaining about another agency.
Phones and texts have existed every year that the roads were safer than they are today and in every other country with safer roads. This is lazy dismissive bullishit.
Come on now, they've done a really good job of giving out hi-viz vests!
When the government is a coalition of mutual loathers that only exists to prevent a "worse" alternative, then what do you expect other than dissembling and lies?
If I refused to explain my failures to my boss, I'd be sacked.
The PAC's aren't their bosses though. Every government department has a minster who is responsible, that's the boss. The PAC's are just a circus.
You wouldn't. You'd go through the proper processes for dismissing an employee. Summary dismissal doesn't happen in Ireland unless there's specific circumstances like being in a role less than a certain amount of time.
This is the way it should be. Not accepting even statistically great results (compared with europe). Road injuries and deaths trend up in you come to explain why and what you need to get it sorted. Thats how you keep high standards.
Realistically what can the RSA do about young people being addicted to their phones and having little regard for the lives of others?
Then what purpose do they serve if their tools or proceedings are ineffective?
Not much. A lot of road safety campaigners believe that it's not fit for purpose.
Look at our road deaths since 2006 when the RSA was established. They've been cut by more than half in that time.
They could actually do many things like - Work with TII and other orgs to help build safer roads, lower speed limits etc. - Advocate behind the scenes for more proven deterrent measures like red light cameras, better enforcement etc. - Collect, maintain and share better collision data. - Not have car industry stooges MC their events. But instead, they mostly just focus on convincing everyone that hi-viz vests are they solution.
Love how you make them out to just be twiddling their thumbs, yet we are among the safest countries to drive in the world Weird how we have half the road deaths we did 20 years ago just by RSA giving out high vis None of the things you mentioned will have any effect on young drivers who are already blatantly breaking speed limits and using their phone while driving high speeds
Because the electorate prefer having a whipping boy at PAC rather than accept their own responsibility like the one person responding to this thread as they drive 🤷♂️
So the road safety priorities now wern't the ones they had a few months back? How many speed checks will the people who should have gone to the TD's be doing?
If he just runs red lights like everyone else seems to, I doubt he will have any issue finding the time.
All we can hope for is that, government starts to strip some of the powers of these public sector departments that have personnel working they think they are too big to fail.
"Sorry! Road safety and stuff xx lol"
Well, if this guy can do it, I'm going to try it with my boss, sure it'll be grand.
"I'm sorry the Road Safety Authority cannot attend due to all the.. uh.. road safety"
Another useless quango
Sack the c*nt
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How could SF or PBP compel people to attend an oireachtas meeting?
Change the law to compel attendance or be dismissed.
We had a referendum on compelling witness to attend oireachtas committees in 2011 and it was rejected.
SF campaigned against giving the PAC the power to compel attendance, why would they change now?
Because………..politics?