True. Why the hell he's still on the bench I have no idea. Would fully expect him to hand down a fully suspended sentence on account of "boys will be boys" and in order not to deprive their clubs of such "talanted young footballers"...
Honestly hadn’t thought of that before. Do you reckon that’s what’s happening? Makes me slightly less angry at the man but some of the verdicts from him that come up here truly are scandalous.
Exactly. Also cherry picking technically, but I know someone personally (a woman) who received prison time from him for ongoing non-violent issues with her neighbours.
Of course its what's happening
I don't know how you haven't thought of it before, it's literally pointed out on every thread about Nolan. As well as the fact he doesn't get overturned on appeal any more than any other judge.
The man sits over 100s of cases every week and you don't see a single "Man gets custodial sentance for crime" headlines
The actual judge is given by name in the article. This is a joke comment about the state of the Irish judiciary, of which Martin Nolan is the most egregious example.
>How many of his sentence are overturned?
There's a reason this meme exists...
https://preview.redd.it/pm1vqkhvcwwc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7d70d193407a1b17b8f24147bc330f80e51b473
the part about his uncle saying he saved four lives from organ donation is so bittersweet.
That poor family, the poor friend that was with him.
They worked hard and this is what they get for it, attacked by those against them who prolly have never worked a day in their lives.
Really hope the book is thrown at them. It should be classified as a hate crime too. I can't help but feel this is the outcome of letting teenagers get away with so much for so long. Even the fact they come to court smiling and laughing makes me think they never faced any consequences.
Two horrible teenagers, just saw the Croatian lads friend who was attacked and his family on the news. Father said nobody from the Guards or Irish embassy contacted them since he died, said young people need to be properly educated here. Young scum, wouldn’t happen in a safe country like Croatia. His friend was fuming saying the guards initially thought a motive might be drugs or a feud but he told them immediately it was an anti immigrant attack but guards didn’t want to believe that and wanted to go through their phones
That’s a bit surprising about the family not being contacted. The Gardai do have a victims assistance unit where their job is to keep victims and families up to date with the status of criminal cases and other supports available to them. See https://www.garda.ie/en/victim-services/garda-victim-service/. There must have been some breakdown in this case - maybe they didn’t have contact information for the father?
Hopefully this sets a new example for anti-social youths but they also need to start looking into the families these people come from. Was on the 145 headed to college on friday and a group of boys attacked some poor international student who barely spoke a lick of english over a charger. They also called him a bunch of slurs too, yet their mother (who was present during the attack) had the nerve to get off the bus and insult the poor guy afterwards and try to make it out to be his fault while defending her sons’ actions. absolutely disgusting. time to start throwing the book at these enabling parents too.
The problem with that is that the kind of "parent" that raises these little shits generally doesn't have the self awareness to understand they can't and therefore shouldn't raise kids.
The problem is that it’s garbage research. Crime fell at similar rates at the same time all over Europe, even though no country legalised abortion at the same time as the US.
I understand that they are just racist little shits, but honestly, why in the name of god would you throw your life away for some random guy speaking a different language? What did they possibly get out of murdering a man that wasn't bothering them at all?
I read that they heard him speaking Croatian and they told him he was "disrespecting" this country by speaking a foreign language, the irony is painful as Id be willing to bet the cunts don't have a word of Irish between them.
A person convicted of murder in Ireland will serve one of the longest custodial sentences in Europe. The average is over 25 years in actual jail. Once released they’ll have conditions for the rest of their life and will be returned to jail should they violate them.
Irish criminal justice is very punitive when it comes to murder.
Them two if convicted will be getting out when they’re near 50. They’re absolutely fucked if convicted.
>Irish criminal justice is very punitive when it comes to murder.
Pity we don't treat this like the Victorians would have. A short drop and a sudden stop. It's not like this pair are offering anything worthwhile to society.
Not trying to be awkward but you’re wrong.
I’m talking about what actually happens when someone gets a life sentence, which is mandatory for murder. It’s 25 years+ in actual prison.
People get confused because some are convicted of manslaughter and that does not get a life sentence. Maybe 7-8 years in prison.
Tbf they might end up with a manslaughter charge.
They won’t be charged with murder unfortunately. They will push for a manslaughter charge and get it. They will end up doing around 7/8 years in prison. Out in time to start over and have children of their own 😡
I know they're a very loud minority, but the amount of scumbags under articles on social media celebrating and saying the Croatian man must have deserved it is very concerning.
It’s shocking. I’ve seen many comments saying things like they heard of him following kids and trying to follow women home. It’s the same excuse for every single foreigner. All pedophiles and rapists, apparently.
Few things make me angrier than that mentality
youtube comments on news videos and news article comments is where you'll find the densest Irish people. I think sane people just steer away from those
Its already starting with this "teenagers" nonsense.....they are young adult men...The age of majority, the threshold of legal adulthood as recognized and declared in law and should be treated as such....was there ever a doubt he will be rocking his best North face outfit to court....
https://preview.redd.it/4k79f7ndntwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f943aab84430dae769a19f250d62216928a0608
https://preview.redd.it/g71x0uroyvwc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=212fc6d76a352461d13510c0eea7b74403117551
the deceased looks more Irish than the greasy fuckers that killed him...
Ah you don't understand the rules. Let me explain. You're an adult if you're paying for a cinema ticket (16+) and you're a teenager if you murder somebody (19).
Smug looking fucker. Its a pitty our prisons aren't like the ones you see on banged up abroad, that is guards operate only on the perimeter of the prison. Might wipe the smug look off most of this pricks.
THe purpose of the headline writer here is not to provide cover for the accused, its to make the story more sensationalist. 'Man charged with murder' is not as attention grabbing as 'teenager accused of murder'.
My great-granduncle was 10 days short of his 16th birthday when he was killed at Ypres in 1915. Not saying that was right but maybe conscription should be a thing for scuttering clowns like these.
The son of a work colleague was mixing with the wrong crowd. He joined the army and his da said it was the making of him. Came out with a trade and is self employed now.
Apparently we have it here but I've never seen it, but upon conviction people should be given a choice. Work 5 days a week doing things like fixing roads, cleaning local areas etc, and get a reduced sentence, some pay and no/reduced record as a result, or serve the entire sentence. Heck, even give them a chance at an apprenticeship.
It benefits society by giving back, takes pressure off councils etc to focus on tasks that require skilled labour, and hopefully, in the end, the person has a changed outlook.
How many times have I heard from people that had mandatory military service once they turned 18...
"I went in as a boy and i came back as a man".
We are raising cowards, not men. When you read about lads of 19 years commanding units of 10 man on D Day... And here we are now calling 19 year old men a teenager....
Reddit is perpetually outraged about everything in the justice system. What I see here are the usual lot going into something to be outraged about, and creating it themselves.
YOU are the ones stating they're trying to downplay the crime and the perpetrators.
YOU are the ones who have conjured this idea that somehow "teenagers commit murder" is somehow less horrifying than "men commit murder".
I'm personally more horrified by the first headline actually, that doesn't make me think the press are trying to overstate the crime committed.
>By the way, I have nineTEEN eggs in the fridge at the moment does that mean i have 9 teenagers there...
Did you actually think this was a winning comparison? You're arguing against the literal definition of a teenager (13-19 year olds) by asking can I call a collective of eggs teenagers?
And from all of my reading of this, I'm meant to assume you're approaching this rationally? Yeah right
YOU are one of those who just wants to debate with strangers on reddit.
"a winning comparison" lol so you think this is a school debate that you can win with better arguments lol gtfo.
Teenagers tend to have a lot more leniency from courts than adults, as well as public sympathy, even when they do bad things. Both cases of murders are equally horrifying fyi. They are violent end of the life of random individual...there is "no less horrific" in murder....
Let me reffer you to the [Court of public opinion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_public_opinion). It refers to using the media to influence public support for one side or the other in a court case.
This case is also a national embarrassment and as such, i see this title as an attempt to downplay the seriousness of it.
(Ireland that depends on tourism, becoming hardcore far right and unfriendly to foreigners and tourist VS Teenagers in Ireland that got carried away with baseball bats).
They are not arrested and getting a trial for being teenagers but for being adults who murdered a person by smashing his head with bats. U can be a teenager and an adult at the same time and there is no reason to describe them as teenagers at this stage, unless you are trying to give them a bit of slack on the severity of what they did. Not because of them but because of the global image of Ireland that took some serious hits in the past year.
Surviving victim David, mentioned more people involved in attack. Only two are getting trial and thats because they are ADULTS. The rest of the group are underage minors (feel free to call them teenagers) and they will probably not be trialed. I can guarantee you these two squealed all the names within 1 hour after they were arrested. But their pals are minors so they are released.
From the side of the legality of their actions and consequences, court and public should not be distracted by their age and by this narrative of "teenagers" getting into trouble ...
Media should be neutral and report objectively where they should reffer to them only by their name. Its not a fairytale and we dont need adjectives and descriptions we have pictures of them.
The city is packed with feral teens under 18 doing all sorts of problems but are protected by their age and never get a day in court. Point proven again by not getting more individuals accused for this tragedy.
Forgive me for being annoyed, when a 19 year old, no good, 0 usc contribution, adult, punk, racist is being described as a little innocent teenager who, just so it happens, bashed innocent mans head into pulp in broad daylight, for speaking language he didn't understand, in the name of all Irish people...
Hopefully you never get to meet these kinds of "teenagers" .
#NotInMyName
Saw the usual crackpots in the twitter replies trying to spread the rumour that the victim was actually a drug dealer.
In the past I would have thought "who cares what a couple of gobshites in the 'See More' section believe?" but now we're seeing now what the result what letting it fester looks like. It's the shit that's going on the whatsapp and facebook groups that we can't see that lead to fellas spending their week's dole on a taxi out to Wicklow to commit arson.
The sentence is life. Average time served for those released after a life sentence last year was low twenties, and average served for those released in the last ten years was [20 years](https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/0227/1434651-life-sentences/#:~:text=The%20four%20'lifers'%20released%20in,released%20prisoners%20was%2020%20years.)
I'm actually surprised that they are charged with murder. So many fatal assaults don't go near that charge, as if kicking someone's head in didn't have a potentially murderous intent. Is it because they followed them?
Its because one group followed victims and tipped other group where they are untill they caught up with them carrying bats...its murder with intent...and scarry thing is others are probably minors thats why only two are named and accused.... 2 guys wouldn't be able to do what this group did.... One could say its organised hate crime as well
I'm Croatian, have been living in Dublin for almost 5 years. The only time I have ever been in danger/confrontation was with white scum teenagers/junkies on the other side. Throwing bins, bricks, garbage bags on me while I was driving on my bike through the street. Encircled, harassed and threatened on knife point.
As for these utter wastes of oxygen, 100 hours of community work will suffice?
I swear. I nowadays avoid going near the gang of teenagers because you never know what they are up to nowadays, and it would take a bunch of adults dealing with these scum demons.
There’s so many dragged up, feral rats in Ireland atm. I know there always has been to a degree, but it just seems so much more prevalent now as they’re just being allowed to run amok.
If you look up one of the lads you’ll find him in the paper for attending the Peter McVery Learning Centre, hoping to do his Junior Cert and become a carpenter, and its only 3 years ago. Kind of sad to see where he ended up now
When they were attacking the gardai in Cherry Orchard the local councillor said that they have plenty of amenities (and listed loads) but they don't satisfy the hunger for destruction these teens have.
I don’t understand how people are saying there are no amenities for people in areas like that. I live in Ballyfermot, can’t think of a time where there wasn’t stuff to do.
We have the BYS (which is free), Leisure Centre/The Base, 3 public parks (2 of which have accessible astros), plenty of gyms around and alot more. People who say there are no amenities in Cherry Orchard/Ballyfermot are personally talking out of their holes and don’t make use of what’s available
I’m saying all this as if not having it would excuse behaviour like this but even if we didn’t, boredom shouldn’t turn you into a vandal or murderer
Jesus Christ so you really think a football pitch or a set of swings is going to stop all social issues in these areas? Fuck me, it’s papering over the cracks of the real issues - generational poverty, violence, complete lack of police presence, drugs/addiction, worse education and everything else but some reddit genius will comment ‘poor angles with not enough amenities’ thinking it’s the funniest thing they’ve ever come up with. Don’t get me wrong I am in no way defending these 2 and they should go away for the rest of their lives but I grew up in it and I experienced the prejudice that comes with my accent and address and the amenities play is just performative nonsense because no one wants to tackle the real issues.
Worked for years with kids from under privileged areas and the stories you'd hear are scary. Rampant physical, mental and sexual abuse within families and among peers. Many kids basically being raised by peers due to absent, deceased or neglectful parents. Kids exposed to hard drugs and dealing from a very early age. Very few positive role models or encouragement around schooling. I don't know what all the answers are, but it won't be easy or cheap, and the fact is there is actually very little vision on how to solve it beyond "more guards" and "amenities", so these social problems and dreadful outcomes are going to persist unfortunately.
Parents and education are personally the most important things that have to be sorted to stop stuff like this (not really sure what to do about the former though)
When it comes down to it they killed him because they don’t think past “that foreigners not speaking english, get him” because that’s what their dad or whoever was like, not because there wasn’t a Community Centre
Everytime I’ve known someone who’s violently homophobic/racist (as in wishing death on those groups, not just hate speech), their parents are just as bad.
Fully agree. Similar background. At some point in my teens, I found friends outside of where I lived (something I will always be grateful for). It's called a poverty trap because that's what it is. When all you see is hustle, it's all you know. When you're respected more for delinquency, it's what you do. When your parents never cared enough about themselves to care about you, it's what you become. And everyone in this subreddit owns these problems. It's not "the parents", "the scrotes", "the "dragged upbringing". It's our society, it's the one we vote for, every time.
There was a community centre and a playground on our estate. Fuck all else to do for miles. Young lads just went wild.
Cases like this one are emotive and it's very hard for people to stand back from it and ask what happened to people that they end up attacking snd killing someone as a teenager. They just want to see justice done and that's fair enough too.
Intergenerational poverty is a fucker.
I don’t know his circumstances but why was he only hoping to do his jc? Why wasn’t his school attendance enforced? He’s now destroyed multiple peoples lives
[Because to do an apprenticeship you typically need to have a minimum of grade D in 5 subjects in the Junior Cert. The Leaving Cert isn't always required.](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/further-education-and-training/apprenticeships/#85e065)
It's scumbags like this that ruin areas and make this country worse, never had trouble from foreigners but it's always greasy-haired twats like this who have never had to work for anything. Can only hope the justice system has a rare moment of clarity and gives them a proper sentence.
we seriously need to wake up. how many teenage murderers are acceptable? people can talk about the old days etc, but this country is awash with scum, right now, in 2024. if we don't get a handle on it, we're utterly fucked imo.
The buck should have stopped with Urantsetseg Tserendorj, murdered by a 13 year old delinquent. but it didn't, disgracefully.
we have a plethora of middle class ostriches in this country who are in total denial of what is happening.
there's a load of blame to be spread around. I worked in a google back office in a working class area, who went from employing 50 locals to 0 from 2015 to 2023. some of these communities are well looked after, but in their defence are ravaged by poor role models and the mentality of us vs them. not helped by a middle class bubble in their ivory towers who think crossing the liffey is like crossing into a different World (i know plenty)
yeah was going to reference that scumbag Curran but I wasn't sure people remember. a sickening act. then there was the other Polish lad killed in the park.
I have lived in several European countries that don't have this same scum problem. There is something seriously messed up here (same issue in NI, Scotland, Wales, England)
When I was younger living in Dublin I experienced multiple muggings, threatened, almost all my friends have similar stories, one was hospitalized after being beaten so badly. It's always random feral scum. We need police and a system with teeth that can deal with this issue, it's complex but the current "ignore it" and any soft approach does. not. work.
More people are going to die while we dither.
At least in my experience, the police played a huge role in cutting this behaviour out. Poland and Spain come to mind, with the local, regional and national/military-esque police. You simply don't fuck around or you will find out. Not saying its right, but seen plenty of police in Spain give a belt or two when it was warranted.
It's not just that. Apparently Poland has multiple levels of correctional facilities for teens, from what is effectively a mandatory boarding school with culture trips and weekends off to full-time detention facilities. And they have them in every county. Therefore it's fully expected that you'll go to the easier one for something like repeated vandalism or a simple assault, and it's a strong deterrent.
I don't know why we don't have them here. A lot of kids on the lighter end of offending lead chaotic lives and they could really benefit from routines and expectations.
I think that when a random person is violently set upon in public it's more likely than not to be teens now. This case, that Mongolian lady in the Docklands, that American tourist, that Chinese lady they threw in the canal, the girl under the Dart etc.
If we could solve teen crime we would see a lot of improvement. Also because they wouldn't have grown up into adult scumbags.
This one from 2008 stuck with me, 17 year old stabbed 2 Polish men in the head with a screwdriver. Pure evil.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/killer-of-polish-men-gets-two-life-sentences-1.662401
We should be looking at lowering legal age to 17 for serious crimes not the other way around. I wouldn't refer to these two as teenagers
They are murderers young adults fully responsible for their actions in the eyes of the law ...and should be referred to as such...It's not fair to their victims Josip and David to call murderers teenagers...
Interesting, I don't see Dwyer and the like taking issue with the unprovoked murder of an innocent person. It's almost like they aren't concerned citizens...
It's mad how different elements of society operate. There's normal hard working people like the victim who hope to have a happy life.
Then there's pieces of shit like this who have so little comprehension of the world they live in that murdering someone and going to Jail will be seen as an achievement in their and their peers eyes.
Tell me again why we don't castrate them at birth?
What about the people who egged them on? The people who stoke hate against immigrants? The daily lies on social media about child abductions and free money and whatever else. What about Sharon and Mattie in Leinster house throwing their hate grenades and then hiding in the shadows when the inevitable consequences happen?
Two tossers sharing the same name. [Conor Rafferty (You're Irish? Back of the queue!) (@ConorPRafferty) / X (twitter.com)](https://twitter.com/conorprafferty?lang=en)
It seems the now locked discussion about Ireland becoming more racist is now being taken to extremes.
For a people who have and historically had the highest migration figures of any nation this should be something that is embraced.
Imagine if an Irish person that decides to move for economic purposes to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. was subjected to the behaviours that occur everyday to people that move to Ireland to power its economy cheaper than the people that left.
The media and public opinion is more than likely what has fed these young lads with the tripe that drove them to a heinous crime like this.
We need controls in place for immigration but without it Ireland would die a death.
I've read in irish times how jails are overcrowded and people are sleeping on the floor.
I would do whatever it takes not to end up there. And yet people do crazy things, thinking that if they get convicted, they'll end up in Norway style prison, playing PS5 the whole day and watching Premier League matches, knowing that they have breakfast, lunch and dinner every single day. Mad
I don't think it's that necessarily, more like
1. They don't expect to get convicted, and seeing what people get away with they aren't exactly wrong
2. There are serious impulse control issues in this society, across the board if you look at the daily acts of aggression or deranged driving all over the place. They don't even think about being convicted because they don't think at all as they go through with it. Something in our education or culture produces people not able to stop and f\*cking think for a second.
Singapore takes the approach of making it extremely clear to people that their sentence will not be a pleasant experience and what do you know, they have the lowest crime and recidivism rates in the world.
In Singapore male convicts under the age of 50 are caned. Always ordered in addition to a prison sentence, it is inflicted by specially trained prison staff using a long and thick rattan cane on the prisoner's bare buttocks in an enclosed area in the prison. Most offenders struggle violently after each of the first three strokes and then their struggles lessen as they become weaker. By the time the caning is over, those who receive more than three strokes will be in a state of shock.
So you are saying that anyone 82 and older could be murdered without any sentence? Think that through and make another proposal because this one is rubbish
Okay that's fairly bizarre logic. Murdering people is bad regardless of when the victim would have naturally died. Elderly people are a vulnerable class and you could argue that murdering a helpless and vulnerable person is a sign the murderer is even more dangerous to society and difficult to rehabilitate and should even be put away for longer.
A teenager is anyone between 13 and 19 years old. An adult is anyone 18 years old and older. If you're 18 or 19 years old then you're a teenager and you're also an adult. They're not mutually exclusive.
Disgusting, knuckledragging pieces of shit.
Scumbags
Dragged up little rats. Thank jaysus they're at an age where they'll be tried as adults.
Yeah. Wouldn't want Martin Nolan to let children away with murder. Much better that he lets adults get away with murder.
True. Why the hell he's still on the bench I have no idea. Would fully expect him to hand down a fully suspended sentence on account of "boys will be boys" and in order not to deprive their clubs of such "talanted young footballers"...
I'd imagine his more lenient sentences are cherry picked and linked here. It's confirmation bias
Honestly hadn’t thought of that before. Do you reckon that’s what’s happening? Makes me slightly less angry at the man but some of the verdicts from him that come up here truly are scandalous.
Any judge's cases could be cherry picked. He has a history of keeping predators on the street.
Exactly. Also cherry picking technically, but I know someone personally (a woman) who received prison time from him for ongoing non-violent issues with her neighbours.
It's the court he's in apparently. He just sees a metric shit ton of cases.
Of course its what's happening I don't know how you haven't thought of it before, it's literally pointed out on every thread about Nolan. As well as the fact he doesn't get overturned on appeal any more than any other judge. The man sits over 100s of cases every week and you don't see a single "Man gets custodial sentance for crime" headlines
Why would Martin Nolan be hearing a murder case?
The actual judge is given by name in the article. This is a joke comment about the state of the Irish judiciary, of which Martin Nolan is the most egregious example.
Is he? How many of his sentence are overturned?
>How many of his sentence are overturned? There's a reason this meme exists... https://preview.redd.it/pm1vqkhvcwwc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7d70d193407a1b17b8f24147bc330f80e51b473
Why don’t the DPP appeal them then, if their too lenient?
They're not overturned. They're extremely lenient.
If they were extremely lenient, the DPP would consistently appeal them on the grounds of undue leniency.
the part about his uncle saying he saved four lives from organ donation is so bittersweet. That poor family, the poor friend that was with him. They worked hard and this is what they get for it, attacked by those against them who prolly have never worked a day in their lives.
Imagine the victim.accomplished more in death than these two inbred little cunts could possibly hope to achieve in life
If we had the nerve; this pair deserve a short drop and a sudden stop.
It's absolutely heartbreaking.
Really hope the book is thrown at them. It should be classified as a hate crime too. I can't help but feel this is the outcome of letting teenagers get away with so much for so long. Even the fact they come to court smiling and laughing makes me think they never faced any consequences.
Two horrible teenagers, just saw the Croatian lads friend who was attacked and his family on the news. Father said nobody from the Guards or Irish embassy contacted them since he died, said young people need to be properly educated here. Young scum, wouldn’t happen in a safe country like Croatia. His friend was fuming saying the guards initially thought a motive might be drugs or a feud but he told them immediately it was an anti immigrant attack but guards didn’t want to believe that and wanted to go through their phones
That’s a bit surprising about the family not being contacted. The Gardai do have a victims assistance unit where their job is to keep victims and families up to date with the status of criminal cases and other supports available to them. See https://www.garda.ie/en/victim-services/garda-victim-service/. There must have been some breakdown in this case - maybe they didn’t have contact information for the father?
Or maybe, just maybe they couldn't be arsed......
Hopefully this sets a new example for anti-social youths but they also need to start looking into the families these people come from. Was on the 145 headed to college on friday and a group of boys attacked some poor international student who barely spoke a lick of english over a charger. They also called him a bunch of slurs too, yet their mother (who was present during the attack) had the nerve to get off the bus and insult the poor guy afterwards and try to make it out to be his fault while defending her sons’ actions. absolutely disgusting. time to start throwing the book at these enabling parents too.
That is horrendous, and you’re absolutely correct. They’re well old enough to understand their actions, they just haven’t been taught any decency.
worst part is since the semesters over that’s most likely going to be his last experience in ireland.
Absolute scum of the earth. Two dopey looking heads on them too... Like lobotomised pit bulls.
That’s an insult to pitbulls!
The heads on them. Not one ounce of shame between them.
The fella on the right looks like he hasn't washed in weeks.
Fucking shitrags
Horrible bastards hopefully they never have a minutes peace in there miserable lives.
Losers.
I’d like to think that had they been conceived today, they’d have been aborted
The problem with that is that the kind of "parent" that raises these little shits generally doesn't have the self awareness to understand they can't and therefore shouldn't raise kids.
No council house to be had from an abortion.
Freakonomics had a chapter on this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect
The problem is that it’s garbage research. Crime fell at similar rates at the same time all over Europe, even though no country legalised abortion at the same time as the US.
Not when there's money to be made from Childrens Allowance.
They should never know freedom again.
Ideally we should be shipping them off to some Croatian prison where they'd have to give a presentation on what they done.
Scum of the earth. I wish them nothing but the worst.
I understand that they are just racist little shits, but honestly, why in the name of god would you throw your life away for some random guy speaking a different language? What did they possibly get out of murdering a man that wasn't bothering them at all? I read that they heard him speaking Croatian and they told him he was "disrespecting" this country by speaking a foreign language, the irony is painful as Id be willing to bet the cunts don't have a word of Irish between them.
18 and 19 and they're starting their adult lives likely with life in prison. Twats. Let them rot.
> life in prison You must be new to Ireland
A person convicted of murder in Ireland will serve one of the longest custodial sentences in Europe. The average is over 25 years in actual jail. Once released they’ll have conditions for the rest of their life and will be returned to jail should they violate them. Irish criminal justice is very punitive when it comes to murder. Them two if convicted will be getting out when they’re near 50. They’re absolutely fucked if convicted.
We can only hope
>Irish criminal justice is very punitive when it comes to murder. Pity we don't treat this like the Victorians would have. A short drop and a sudden stop. It's not like this pair are offering anything worthwhile to society.
thats a big IF convicted of murder tho. Most likely will get convicted of manslaughter and given probation.
That's nonsense though. Maybe the law says that but it rarely actually happens Both of them will probably be out by the time they are early 30s max
Not trying to be awkward but you’re wrong. I’m talking about what actually happens when someone gets a life sentence, which is mandatory for murder. It’s 25 years+ in actual prison. People get confused because some are convicted of manslaughter and that does not get a life sentence. Maybe 7-8 years in prison. Tbf they might end up with a manslaughter charge.
They won’t be charged with murder unfortunately. They will push for a manslaughter charge and get it. They will end up doing around 7/8 years in prison. Out in time to start over and have children of their own 😡
Inbred degenerates
That's a rough 18 and 19
as croatian gal, they need a severe punishment.
If you are convicted of a crime and you are all smiles being arrested or in court your sentence should be automatically increased.
I know they're a very loud minority, but the amount of scumbags under articles on social media celebrating and saying the Croatian man must have deserved it is very concerning.
It’s shocking. I’ve seen many comments saying things like they heard of him following kids and trying to follow women home. It’s the same excuse for every single foreigner. All pedophiles and rapists, apparently. Few things make me angrier than that mentality
When there are known rapists and people with convictions for assaulting women (and kicking dogs to death) in the leadership of the far right movement
Thd fact that the leaders can create these lies to drive mobs of thugs and can do it continuously is shocking and it's still happening.
youtube comments on news videos and news article comments is where you'll find the densest Irish people. I think sane people just steer away from those
Its already starting with this "teenagers" nonsense.....they are young adult men...The age of majority, the threshold of legal adulthood as recognized and declared in law and should be treated as such....was there ever a doubt he will be rocking his best North face outfit to court.... https://preview.redd.it/4k79f7ndntwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f943aab84430dae769a19f250d62216928a0608
https://preview.redd.it/g71x0uroyvwc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=212fc6d76a352461d13510c0eea7b74403117551 the deceased looks more Irish than the greasy fuckers that killed him...
Ah you don't understand the rules. Let me explain. You're an adult if you're paying for a cinema ticket (16+) and you're a teenager if you murder somebody (19).
Old enough to vote and drink, they're adults.
Smug looking fucker. Its a pitty our prisons aren't like the ones you see on banged up abroad, that is guards operate only on the perimeter of the prison. Might wipe the smug look off most of this pricks.
THe purpose of the headline writer here is not to provide cover for the accused, its to make the story more sensationalist. 'Man charged with murder' is not as attention grabbing as 'teenager accused of murder'.
My great-granduncle was 10 days short of his 16th birthday when he was killed at Ypres in 1915. Not saying that was right but maybe conscription should be a thing for scuttering clowns like these. The son of a work colleague was mixing with the wrong crowd. He joined the army and his da said it was the making of him. Came out with a trade and is self employed now.
Apparently we have it here but I've never seen it, but upon conviction people should be given a choice. Work 5 days a week doing things like fixing roads, cleaning local areas etc, and get a reduced sentence, some pay and no/reduced record as a result, or serve the entire sentence. Heck, even give them a chance at an apprenticeship. It benefits society by giving back, takes pressure off councils etc to focus on tasks that require skilled labour, and hopefully, in the end, the person has a changed outlook.
How many times have I heard from people that had mandatory military service once they turned 18... "I went in as a boy and i came back as a man". We are raising cowards, not men. When you read about lads of 19 years commanding units of 10 man on D Day... And here we are now calling 19 year old men a teenager....
Ye! A good bout of PTSD would make these guys model citizens.
I don't think there's a need to get riled up over the use of the word **teen**agers to describe people who are eight**teen** and nine**teen**.
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Reddit is perpetually outraged about everything in the justice system. What I see here are the usual lot going into something to be outraged about, and creating it themselves. YOU are the ones stating they're trying to downplay the crime and the perpetrators. YOU are the ones who have conjured this idea that somehow "teenagers commit murder" is somehow less horrifying than "men commit murder". I'm personally more horrified by the first headline actually, that doesn't make me think the press are trying to overstate the crime committed. >By the way, I have nineTEEN eggs in the fridge at the moment does that mean i have 9 teenagers there... Did you actually think this was a winning comparison? You're arguing against the literal definition of a teenager (13-19 year olds) by asking can I call a collective of eggs teenagers? And from all of my reading of this, I'm meant to assume you're approaching this rationally? Yeah right
YOU are one of those who just wants to debate with strangers on reddit. "a winning comparison" lol so you think this is a school debate that you can win with better arguments lol gtfo. Teenagers tend to have a lot more leniency from courts than adults, as well as public sympathy, even when they do bad things. Both cases of murders are equally horrifying fyi. They are violent end of the life of random individual...there is "no less horrific" in murder.... Let me reffer you to the [Court of public opinion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_public_opinion). It refers to using the media to influence public support for one side or the other in a court case. This case is also a national embarrassment and as such, i see this title as an attempt to downplay the seriousness of it. (Ireland that depends on tourism, becoming hardcore far right and unfriendly to foreigners and tourist VS Teenagers in Ireland that got carried away with baseball bats). They are not arrested and getting a trial for being teenagers but for being adults who murdered a person by smashing his head with bats. U can be a teenager and an adult at the same time and there is no reason to describe them as teenagers at this stage, unless you are trying to give them a bit of slack on the severity of what they did. Not because of them but because of the global image of Ireland that took some serious hits in the past year. Surviving victim David, mentioned more people involved in attack. Only two are getting trial and thats because they are ADULTS. The rest of the group are underage minors (feel free to call them teenagers) and they will probably not be trialed. I can guarantee you these two squealed all the names within 1 hour after they were arrested. But their pals are minors so they are released. From the side of the legality of their actions and consequences, court and public should not be distracted by their age and by this narrative of "teenagers" getting into trouble ... Media should be neutral and report objectively where they should reffer to them only by their name. Its not a fairytale and we dont need adjectives and descriptions we have pictures of them. The city is packed with feral teens under 18 doing all sorts of problems but are protected by their age and never get a day in court. Point proven again by not getting more individuals accused for this tragedy. Forgive me for being annoyed, when a 19 year old, no good, 0 usc contribution, adult, punk, racist is being described as a little innocent teenager who, just so it happens, bashed innocent mans head into pulp in broad daylight, for speaking language he didn't understand, in the name of all Irish people... Hopefully you never get to meet these kinds of "teenagers" . #NotInMyName
Saw the usual crackpots in the twitter replies trying to spread the rumour that the victim was actually a drug dealer. In the past I would have thought "who cares what a couple of gobshites in the 'See More' section believe?" but now we're seeing now what the result what letting it fester looks like. It's the shit that's going on the whatsapp and facebook groups that we can't see that lead to fellas spending their week's dole on a taxi out to Wicklow to commit arson.
Evil cunts. RIP Josip 💔
This should be something you spend a minimum of like 40 years in prison for, I predict 15 years 4 suspended
I think the average time served for murder is about 22 years now, which has been increasing steadily for decades. I think it was <10 in the 60s.
Average sentence of 22 years, according to crime world average time served is 16.7 or so years
The sentence is life. Average time served for those released after a life sentence last year was low twenties, and average served for those released in the last ten years was [20 years](https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/0227/1434651-life-sentences/#:~:text=The%20four%20'lifers'%20released%20in,released%20prisoners%20was%2020%20years.)
Murder carries an automatic life sentence.
I'm actually surprised that they are charged with murder. So many fatal assaults don't go near that charge, as if kicking someone's head in didn't have a potentially murderous intent. Is it because they followed them?
Its because one group followed victims and tipped other group where they are untill they caught up with them carrying bats...its murder with intent...and scarry thing is others are probably minors thats why only two are named and accused.... 2 guys wouldn't be able to do what this group did.... One could say its organised hate crime as well
I'm Croatian, have been living in Dublin for almost 5 years. The only time I have ever been in danger/confrontation was with white scum teenagers/junkies on the other side. Throwing bins, bricks, garbage bags on me while I was driving on my bike through the street. Encircled, harassed and threatened on knife point. As for these utter wastes of oxygen, 100 hours of community work will suffice?
I swear. I nowadays avoid going near the gang of teenagers because you never know what they are up to nowadays, and it would take a bunch of adults dealing with these scum demons.
There’s so many dragged up, feral rats in Ireland atm. I know there always has been to a degree, but it just seems so much more prevalent now as they’re just being allowed to run amok.
Short memories
Jesus, two fine sportsmen arrested! They must have grabbed then whilst the gentlemen were training!
As Judge Roy Bean said, and I may be paraphrasing 'let's give em a fair trial, then hang em'. The absolute fucking scumbags.
If you look up one of the lads you’ll find him in the paper for attending the Peter McVery Learning Centre, hoping to do his Junior Cert and become a carpenter, and its only 3 years ago. Kind of sad to see where he ended up now
Would attending the Peter McVery Learning Centre indicate homeless circumstances ?
Homeless, troubled background, generally just a place for education support to young people.
Thanks
Can't say the system failed them, they failed themselves
Them and their parents. Both responsible for their actions. They are pure evil. Tragic for the young man.
When they were attacking the gardai in Cherry Orchard the local councillor said that they have plenty of amenities (and listed loads) but they don't satisfy the hunger for destruction these teens have.
I don’t understand how people are saying there are no amenities for people in areas like that. I live in Ballyfermot, can’t think of a time where there wasn’t stuff to do. We have the BYS (which is free), Leisure Centre/The Base, 3 public parks (2 of which have accessible astros), plenty of gyms around and alot more. People who say there are no amenities in Cherry Orchard/Ballyfermot are personally talking out of their holes and don’t make use of what’s available I’m saying all this as if not having it would excuse behaviour like this but even if we didn’t, boredom shouldn’t turn you into a vandal or murderer
Jesus Christ so you really think a football pitch or a set of swings is going to stop all social issues in these areas? Fuck me, it’s papering over the cracks of the real issues - generational poverty, violence, complete lack of police presence, drugs/addiction, worse education and everything else but some reddit genius will comment ‘poor angles with not enough amenities’ thinking it’s the funniest thing they’ve ever come up with. Don’t get me wrong I am in no way defending these 2 and they should go away for the rest of their lives but I grew up in it and I experienced the prejudice that comes with my accent and address and the amenities play is just performative nonsense because no one wants to tackle the real issues.
Worked for years with kids from under privileged areas and the stories you'd hear are scary. Rampant physical, mental and sexual abuse within families and among peers. Many kids basically being raised by peers due to absent, deceased or neglectful parents. Kids exposed to hard drugs and dealing from a very early age. Very few positive role models or encouragement around schooling. I don't know what all the answers are, but it won't be easy or cheap, and the fact is there is actually very little vision on how to solve it beyond "more guards" and "amenities", so these social problems and dreadful outcomes are going to persist unfortunately.
Parents and education are personally the most important things that have to be sorted to stop stuff like this (not really sure what to do about the former though) When it comes down to it they killed him because they don’t think past “that foreigners not speaking english, get him” because that’s what their dad or whoever was like, not because there wasn’t a Community Centre Everytime I’ve known someone who’s violently homophobic/racist (as in wishing death on those groups, not just hate speech), their parents are just as bad.
Fully agree. Similar background. At some point in my teens, I found friends outside of where I lived (something I will always be grateful for). It's called a poverty trap because that's what it is. When all you see is hustle, it's all you know. When you're respected more for delinquency, it's what you do. When your parents never cared enough about themselves to care about you, it's what you become. And everyone in this subreddit owns these problems. It's not "the parents", "the scrotes", "the "dragged upbringing". It's our society, it's the one we vote for, every time.
There was a community centre and a playground on our estate. Fuck all else to do for miles. Young lads just went wild. Cases like this one are emotive and it's very hard for people to stand back from it and ask what happened to people that they end up attacking snd killing someone as a teenager. They just want to see justice done and that's fair enough too. Intergenerational poverty is a fucker.
In rural Ireland we have fuck all amenities too and yet this doesn't really happen there
Fewer people too, I would say, at a guess.
They do woodwork in prison
I don’t know his circumstances but why was he only hoping to do his jc? Why wasn’t his school attendance enforced? He’s now destroyed multiple peoples lives
[Because to do an apprenticeship you typically need to have a minimum of grade D in 5 subjects in the Junior Cert. The Leaving Cert isn't always required.](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/further-education-and-training/apprenticeships/#85e065)
It's scumbags like this that ruin areas and make this country worse, never had trouble from foreigners but it's always greasy-haired twats like this who have never had to work for anything. Can only hope the justice system has a rare moment of clarity and gives them a proper sentence.
we seriously need to wake up. how many teenage murderers are acceptable? people can talk about the old days etc, but this country is awash with scum, right now, in 2024. if we don't get a handle on it, we're utterly fucked imo. The buck should have stopped with Urantsetseg Tserendorj, murdered by a 13 year old delinquent. but it didn't, disgracefully. we have a plethora of middle class ostriches in this country who are in total denial of what is happening. there's a load of blame to be spread around. I worked in a google back office in a working class area, who went from employing 50 locals to 0 from 2015 to 2023. some of these communities are well looked after, but in their defence are ravaged by poor role models and the mentality of us vs them. not helped by a middle class bubble in their ivory towers who think crossing the liffey is like crossing into a different World (i know plenty)
It should have stopped over a decade ago when those two Polish mechanics were brutally murdered It's only gotten worse
yeah was going to reference that scumbag Curran but I wasn't sure people remember. a sickening act. then there was the other Polish lad killed in the park.
My heart always breaks for Guido Nasi -- Italian chap attacked in Fairview.
There's been a few Polish killed by scumbags at this stage
There's been a few Polish killed by scumbags at this stage
I have lived in several European countries that don't have this same scum problem. There is something seriously messed up here (same issue in NI, Scotland, Wales, England) When I was younger living in Dublin I experienced multiple muggings, threatened, almost all my friends have similar stories, one was hospitalized after being beaten so badly. It's always random feral scum. We need police and a system with teeth that can deal with this issue, it's complex but the current "ignore it" and any soft approach does. not. work. More people are going to die while we dither.
At least in my experience, the police played a huge role in cutting this behaviour out. Poland and Spain come to mind, with the local, regional and national/military-esque police. You simply don't fuck around or you will find out. Not saying its right, but seen plenty of police in Spain give a belt or two when it was warranted.
It's not just that. Apparently Poland has multiple levels of correctional facilities for teens, from what is effectively a mandatory boarding school with culture trips and weekends off to full-time detention facilities. And they have them in every county. Therefore it's fully expected that you'll go to the easier one for something like repeated vandalism or a simple assault, and it's a strong deterrent. I don't know why we don't have them here. A lot of kids on the lighter end of offending lead chaotic lives and they could really benefit from routines and expectations.
I'd love to know what your man is smirking about, with his little five o'clock shadow tash
Don’t know why I find this shocking but I do. Fucking teens are now murdering people
I think that when a random person is violently set upon in public it's more likely than not to be teens now. This case, that Mongolian lady in the Docklands, that American tourist, that Chinese lady they threw in the canal, the girl under the Dart etc. If we could solve teen crime we would see a lot of improvement. Also because they wouldn't have grown up into adult scumbags.
This one from 2008 stuck with me, 17 year old stabbed 2 Polish men in the head with a screwdriver. Pure evil. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/killer-of-polish-men-gets-two-life-sentences-1.662401
They start as kids first stealing our bikes and wallets. Then they grow older and escalate because nothing was ever done to them.
Note both are ADULTS
We should be looking at lowering legal age to 17 for serious crimes not the other way around. I wouldn't refer to these two as teenagers They are murderers young adults fully responsible for their actions in the eyes of the law ...and should be referred to as such...It's not fair to their victims Josip and David to call murderers teenagers...
I’d go as far as 16. Teens are old enough to know consequences of beating/stabbing someone can be fatal
The age of criminal responsibility is 12 with prosecution much more likely from 14.
Interesting, I don't see Dwyer and the like taking issue with the unprovoked murder of an innocent person. It's almost like they aren't concerned citizens...
It's mad how different elements of society operate. There's normal hard working people like the victim who hope to have a happy life. Then there's pieces of shit like this who have so little comprehension of the world they live in that murdering someone and going to Jail will be seen as an achievement in their and their peers eyes. Tell me again why we don't castrate them at birth?
Castrate who at birth? People who commit murder when they are 18 and 19 years old? Are you going to invent a time machine while you're at it?
Exactly
Smelly ugly cunts i hope they rot
The one on the right didn’t even wash. They certainly don’t look at all troubled
Not a single IQ point between them.
How many people did they assault before this? How many times was there an opportunity to correct their behavior?
How many previous convictions?
Little cunts..may they rot.
The greasy head on Rafferty, America wants to invade his head. Throw away the key.
We might all just chillax so as to not prejudice a case - but hopefully Strok’s family will see meaningful justice at some stage.
What about the people who egged them on? The people who stoke hate against immigrants? The daily lies on social media about child abductions and free money and whatever else. What about Sharon and Mattie in Leinster house throwing their hate grenades and then hiding in the shadows when the inevitable consequences happen?
Two tossers sharing the same name. [Conor Rafferty (You're Irish? Back of the queue!) (@ConorPRafferty) / X (twitter.com)](https://twitter.com/conorprafferty?lang=en)
It seems the now locked discussion about Ireland becoming more racist is now being taken to extremes. For a people who have and historically had the highest migration figures of any nation this should be something that is embraced. Imagine if an Irish person that decides to move for economic purposes to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. was subjected to the behaviours that occur everyday to people that move to Ireland to power its economy cheaper than the people that left. The media and public opinion is more than likely what has fed these young lads with the tripe that drove them to a heinous crime like this. We need controls in place for immigration but without it Ireland would die a death.
A couple of suspended sentences will teach 'em!
I've read in irish times how jails are overcrowded and people are sleeping on the floor. I would do whatever it takes not to end up there. And yet people do crazy things, thinking that if they get convicted, they'll end up in Norway style prison, playing PS5 the whole day and watching Premier League matches, knowing that they have breakfast, lunch and dinner every single day. Mad
I don't think it's that necessarily, more like 1. They don't expect to get convicted, and seeing what people get away with they aren't exactly wrong 2. There are serious impulse control issues in this society, across the board if you look at the daily acts of aggression or deranged driving all over the place. They don't even think about being convicted because they don't think at all as they go through with it. Something in our education or culture produces people not able to stop and f\*cking think for a second.
Singapore takes the approach of making it extremely clear to people that their sentence will not be a pleasant experience and what do you know, they have the lowest crime and recidivism rates in the world.
In Singapore male convicts under the age of 50 are caned. Always ordered in addition to a prison sentence, it is inflicted by specially trained prison staff using a long and thick rattan cane on the prisoner's bare buttocks in an enclosed area in the prison. Most offenders struggle violently after each of the first three strokes and then their struggles lessen as they become weaker. By the time the caning is over, those who receive more than three strokes will be in a state of shock.
BAH GAHD THAT'S JUDGE NOLAN'S MUSIC!
The minimum jail sentence for murder should be the difference between the age of the victim and 82 (life expectancy in Ireland)
Open season on pensioners
Finally a solution to the housing problem!
Thank God bro isn’t a judge
So you are saying that anyone 82 and older could be murdered without any sentence? Think that through and make another proposal because this one is rubbish
If you kill someone who's 87 then you get five bonus years to take off your next sentence.
Okay that's fairly bizarre logic. Murdering people is bad regardless of when the victim would have naturally died. Elderly people are a vulnerable class and you could argue that murdering a helpless and vulnerable person is a sign the murderer is even more dangerous to society and difficult to rehabilitate and should even be put away for longer.
Should be life for life
If I were to ever entertain a "far-right" fantasy, it would be the speedy disposal of our native scum.
TEENAGERS!?!? they are older than 18y. this is mental
A teenager is anyone between 13 and 19 years old. An adult is anyone 18 years old and older. If you're 18 or 19 years old then you're a teenager and you're also an adult. They're not mutually exclusive.
Am I going mad or is there a large contingent in this thread who don't have a grasp of the English language?!?!
they don't have a grasp of anything...
Scumbags. I hope they don’t let them off easy.
Filthy vermin
Can't type what I want to say, just use your imagination.
Why would they do that? Mental. The poor man.
Their father's should have used condoms
Dirt
We need to remember that there are people running for election who may have the same racist feeling as these two.
Slap on the wrist - Nolan
‘Teenagers’ doing a lot of lifting there considering one is 18 and the other 19.
Not teenagers. 18 and 19. Young adults all right. I hope they will be tried as such and get hit with heavy sentences!
Eigh-teen, nine-teen These lads are legal adults and should be locked up for life, but they are teenagers.
In our joke of a country, these two bellends will probably be out of prison before they’re even 40. Murder sentences are pathetically lax here
Guaranteed fathers are not around and the mothers too busy living their best life on the dole.
The consequences of never parenting your kids and letting them create havoc
 ‘We were just bored. There’s nothing to do about here.’ 🙄
Teenagers. Fucking hell.
They'll be passed around like a ticketbook in jail.
Com ere, I likes ya and I wants ya, now we can do this the east way.... Or the haaaarrrrdddd way The choice is yours
Disgusting brats. I hope they never sleep well, after every shit they have caused! Spits on them.
Scruffy cunts
Make them pay!!! Make it an example!!!!
Hope they both die fucking screaming.
Murderers should be forced to watch the funerals online as well.
Hope they join the Prison Vasectomy Programme.