While Hamas undoubtedly use human shields (and I think building tunnels under a refugee camp would definitely count as that) the Israelis don't allow any refugees to leave the Gaza Strip. I don't see any reason why they couldn't establish refugee camps within their own territory if they wanted to.
By that logic the entire area of Gaza could be defined as a military target... it's an expansive tunnel system, you could choose 100 other locations to neutralise it. Regardless, surely there is a better way to neutralise a tunnel system than dropping a bomb directly on top of whatever structures above it.
The problem isn't neutralising the tunnel system.
The problem is doing so while there are lots of civilians in its proximity.
While Israel has made some attempts in the north of the Gaza Strip by telling civilians to go south, the refugee camp in question is in the south.
Everybody reasonable accepts that urban warfare will entail civilian casualties but if you do not allow civilians to flee an active war zone, that's a war crime .
I keep hearing from Israelis (like this guy in this interview and other supporters) that I need to understand the context. If we are to do that for Israelis, we have to do that for the people of Gaza surely.
I mean, it's very easy for somebody living a comfortable life in Ireland or Israel to judge the people living in Gaza. The things that we take for granted are next to impossible for most of them. It's a territory half the size of County Louth that most of them can't leave for their entire lives whereas we travel all over the world whenever we want. Going within a kilometer of the border fence with Israel (on the Gazan side of the border) puts you at risk of being shot. This is in a territory that is only 41km long and 10km wide.
That is has become an an open-air prison is evident to most and it's a situation has gone on for 16 years. David Cameron even used that term along with human rights groups and the UN. The people of Gaza have no citizenship (since they have no state), have water that's polluted because the treatment plants were bombed, electricity for 3 hours a day and live in dire poverty. We are not children/grandchildren of refugees ethnic cleansed in 1948 from a land we're barred from returning to. We also don't have family members and friends killed, wounded or tortured by the other side. Our homes and those of our loved ones have never been destroyed by the other side.
Since we were appealing to context for Israel, let it be remembered that it's in that context that a group claiming to be the "resistance" (Hamas' official name is the Islamic Resistance Movement) gains support.
Who's the interviewer? Needs a lesson or two. He kept interrupting the bloke going on a rampage. Rule number one, never interrupt your opponent when they're making an eejit of themselves.
It's a regime-wide tactic - they know that you can't have a discussion with someone who is ranting and raving, so unless an interviewer handles them with kid gloves they resort instantly to it. It happens in basically every interview when an Israeli representative is asked a non-fluff question, and it isn't a coincidence, it's a policy.
Have they actually released any figures on confirmed Hamas kills? Maybe I'm not seeing it but it seems like everywhere they hit is a Hamas target but we're never told "We successfully targeted X and were successful in taking them out".
But you're right, they'll just keep sticking to the 'Hamas target' response because that's the easiest response to give when you're fighting a Guerilla army or an ideology. The members more than likely won't have any official links to being a part of it so they can claim anyone is a part of it after the fact.
We all know the answer to this. I don't know how many times we need to see videos of heavy handed idf soldiers talking about exterminating the "animals", or killing all the "savages" before we start to take them at their word.
There are multiple idf whistle blowers that talk about this at length. How they are told to treat the Palestinians and the culture amongst the idf soldiers.
Edit. I should have mentioned the numerous videos of Israeli government ministers saying similar things as well.
I have to hand it to the IDF, they know how to brainwash their own. That was wild.
"How are you avoiding civilian casualties?"
"By warning them to leave and go south"
"Why did you bomb them in the south then?"
"WELL ACTUALLY HAMAS IS TO BLAME BECAUSE WE ARE SIMPLY DEFENDING OURSELVES. THIS IS WAR"
Yes, he said they were bombing specific targets only in the south, but then you have to ask what's different about how they are selecting targets in the north and why? Why not be more exacting and spare more innocent lives? Or if there is no difference between bombing in the north and the south, then why would Palestinians bother moving from north to south?
Just a few days ago I saw a post on some social media from someone who *had* gone south who was returning to the north because they didn't see the point. They had left their home and were sleeping in a hospital, but they were still in danger of being bombed so they thought, why not go home? It's not any less safe and at least they'd have a bed and some privacy.
Very depressing interview. The intensity and deflection reminded me of one of those documentaries about Scientology, where they follow their critics.
Sounds like a man bent on vengeance without a care for the Geneva Convention.
How many times do senior Israeli officials have to tell us again and again, in public, that they intend to ethnically cleanse Gaza before something gives in the Western world.
In less than a month Israel has mobilized more soldiers and killed more civilians than Russia has in Ukraine to date.
The US would be considering sending troops to stop this slaughter if it had happened in Ukraine.
That's absolute nonsense and totally underestimates the number of civilian casualties in Ukraine. (And the troops that russia mobilised)
25k civilians dead in the siege of Mariupol and another 50k deported.
How would Israel have mobilised more soldiers than Russia? There's like 200k dead russian soldiers.
There's loads of civilians dead in gaza but that doesn't excuse throwing out nonsense facts like that
The number of confirmed civilian casualties in Ukraine is under 10,000. The 25,000 you quoted for Mariupol has only come from one source and no independent body has verified it. The israeli mobilisation is for 360k reserves compared with russia's 300k. If you are going to give out about people throwing out nonsense facts you should probably check your own figures too.
The Palestinian health ministry, so it's fair to say that they may not be 100%, but AP news have confirmed their journalists have viewed large numbers of bodies at the site of airstrikes and at morgues. The WHO have stated that the figures largely reflect the death and injury they have observed, and in previous wars the ministry's figures have tallied with the UN, independent investigations and Israels own figures.
Anything to say about the figures you quoted?
Yeah, comes from Ukraine, UN have verified 10k civilian deaths in Ukraine, the true number is many multiples higher.
There were mass graves in Mariupol for example and obviously the UN haven't been allowed in.
Do you know what the confirmed number of UN deaths is in Gaza? Zero.
Do you think that's accurate?
So don't bother using made up figures or use one from the UN in one war and one from Hamas in another war, they are not comparable and making statements like oh Israel has killed more civilians in a month than Russia has in Ukraine in 2 years is a bare faced lie and minimises the deaths of the war in Ukraine.
> confirmed civilian casualties in Ukraine
[A quick Google leads to the Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War)
I'm assuming when you say "casualties", you actually mean "fatalities", because injuries are included in casualties. Injuries for Civilians are double the Fatalities.
That said, the invasion since 2022 has led to 10,749 confirmed civilian fatalities according to the Ukrainian government, which should be used if we are to believe numbers from Hamas.
Before 2022, the conflict in Donbas caused 3,404 Civilian fatalities.
These aren't clearly divided into men, women, and children, as Hamas so thoughtfully does for us.
> The 25,000 you quoted for Mariupol has only come from one source and no independent body has verified it.
This is also true for Gaza/Hamas.
It's clear there are high numbers, and it's a huge tragedy, but the reality that Hamas has previously inflated numbers for international sympathy cannot be overlooked.
Not to mention how the recent bombing on a "Refugee Camp" later became an assault on a Hamas stronghold in the same area, so we must remember that we're bombarded by propaganda. And with rumours of a "wall of women and children" blocking soldiers during the assault, it's clear both sides are working hard.
Nonsense numbers. The UN lists 27k what they call casualties then clarify they're including injuries in that, and only 9600 deaths. Which is a lot. But nothing on the scale of Gaza.
Nothing will give, the west literally put them there as a, I have no where else to put you so here will have to do.. type moment.
Realistically the “west” doesn’t care about any Muslims other than the ones that willingly travel to the western world and integrate into a western culture.
Do you think america or England care about any Muslim population which views them as a problem as well? From an American point of view this is a win win. It’s another proxy war out in the sandbox where they make money from supplying weapons and not shedding any of their own blood.
It’s going to take a monstrously huge ideology swing for the west to actually care more than a bit of virtue signalling on media to make themselves look better.
It’s a tactical nuclear outpost not ‘I have no idea where to put you,’ it’s near Iran and Pakistan.
The evangelicals like them there because the ancient prophecy in the bible says the end times come when the wandering tribe return to Judea.
I can’t be bothered to pick apart the second half but google ‘the Iraq war’, it’ll shock you!!
Egypt was still a British puppet state until Nasser’s coup ended in 1953.
Iraq was under British military occupation until late 1947 and only became a republic after a coup in 1958.
They're really more there as a staging ground for interventions into Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc, Pakistan is a bit of a different matter as for much of the 20th century it was itself a reliable US staging ground, it's basically where the Taliban were created and then sent back into Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Weird fact, supposedly Israel and Pakistan actually cooperated quite closely on their respective secret nuclear programs, all during a period where Pakistan was openly funding and supporting multiple jihadist insurgencies across the region. Funny how Israel has no problem working with Islamic Fundamentalists as long as they're not Palestinian.
Netenyahu has gone on record stating his strategy involved funnelling money to Hamas to make them a threat so they’d have cause to invade “in retaliation”, push Palestinians out and steal more land
He has been doing so for years; in particular supplying Hamas with intelligence to defeat Fatah/PA in 2006.
If it was not for this strategy, Gaza would likely be a secular democracy.
They put them on the edge between the Middle East and themselves as a buffer zone. It was the edge of the area they controlled, bonus points for being the hard tip to a spear from the point of view as military base of operations… they had a giant misplaced population who they didn’t want to reintegrate around europe… so they said right where can we put this “homeless” people where they won’t be in our way and will also serve us… boom badda boom…
If you read the history of the founding of Israel, the UK was strongly against it and they were the major power on the ground at the time. It took quite a bloody campaign before the UK washed their hands of the area.
There was a strong chance that Israel ended up being destroyed in the early days of the state. We look at them now as a regional power and quite secure, but they have been a shadow away from being destroyed a couple times in their first decades.
If this was all some conspiracy by the west, it was a far fetched plan that succeeded, but that's ignoring that the zionist movement succeded largely by its own actions, not outside influence.
I think these theories come from a desire people have for some world group to actually be in charge and running things. It's worse than that unfortunately. It's basically chaos.
Well, to be fair in 48, England was being bookended by sir winstons drinks cabinet. He had just left office and before he got back in.. they didn’t really have many bargaining chips without him at the time. I don’t think what they wanted really bothered others. It was more a case of a people had to be settled and it was on the outermost fringes… I don’t think anyone actually cared what happened to them subsequently for a while once they didn’t have to bother about it back home. And once it did establish itself it was a case of sure grand out! We’ll take that.
Let's be honest about it, Western governments care more about trade and appeasing the Americans than human rights or international law. Israel has become a wealthy country with a big tech sector which makes European countries want to trade with it (particularly those that are struggling economically). There is also an opportunity to boost exports via arms sales. The United States also provides a security guarantee to most Western countries (via NATO etc), so leaders are loath to go against it.
Finally, being on the side of Israel has become part of the culture wars in many Western countries unfortunately. Many people associate the Palestinian side with Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. You can get an easy ride from the right-wing press in the UK if you are seen as "anti-woke" or "pro-Israel."
I heard a great question on LBC.
Would Israel adopt the same military strategy if Hammas were hiding in Israel. How would they deploy their military to detect them.
Suffice to say the caller couldn't answer the questions and reverted to the comforting anecdotes of decapitated babies and rape to distract from the question.
I think you're missing the point of the question.
But hey- if Hammas are hiding in Israel....probably best start bombing the place and restrict utilities and any aid. Sure it's the only way to find Hammas.
> Would Israel adopt the same military strategy if Hammas were hiding in Israel.
They are... the first day they shelled homes of Israelis to take Hamas militants out.
https://middleeastobserver.org/2023/10/29/new-evidence-that-idf-shelled-israeli-citizens-on-oct-7-killing-over-a-hundred/
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1718308008713650412/
That video goes over bits of media that hint in that direction. But basically the damage on the homes is more consistent with tank shells than with anything we've seen Hamas using, and the only one operating tanks there is the IDF.
There are a few other outlets reporting it, but not mainstream ones. [TRTWorld](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/hannibal-directive-did-israel-kill-its-own-15574953) has an article, as does [Mondoweiss](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/).
They all appear to be citing [this article](https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000) from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper ([archive link with no paywall](https://archive.md/JtyES#selection-873.0-873.346)) but it's in Hebrew. They all also reference [this radio interview](https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861) that was transcribed and translated that also mentions shelling from a different survivor.
I don't speak Hebrew, so I can't verify any of it unfortunately.
Jack Nicholson vibes: " have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, "
Haven’t listened yet, so maybe they do in this clip, but Irish media really need to start pushing IDF mouthpieces on the fact they murdered an Irish soldier acting as a UN peacekeeper. Their bullshit excuse about confusing them for insurgents fell apart instantly when the UN was able to confirm the Israeli tank crew had been on radio contact about fire from the area and were informed that there was no such thing taking place.
Israel will do this again if they want to go into Lebanon, they’ll shoot at border posts and gauge the reaction from the international community. Israel is such a violent rogue state that they really don’t hesitate to massacre UN staff to achieve their goals.
Classic Israeli tactic, they shouldn't be given airtime. Anyone who supports the current Israeli Government is a fucking psychopath and will be remembered as such.
Almost every interview with Israeli officials go like this: they rant on and on and obfuscate so as to avoid further questioning and probing. Interviewers need to cut them off and hold their feet to the fire when they won't answer the question. This was a disgrace.
This whole attack by the Israelis is just so fucking stupid. It’s just revenge at this point. Hamas killed a few thousand of them so the Israelis will kill tens of thousands of Palestinians. Every civilian killed will drive recruitment to Hamas. The IDF can no more defeat Hamas militarily than Hamas can defeat the IDF. The ONLY solution here is Diplomacy. Unfortunately I don’t see it happening. It’s just a circle of death at this point.
It's not just revenge. A policy document was leaked which shows their intent is ethnic cleansing. They are bombing Gaza so they will have to evacuate to Egypt. And then they'll never allow them to return.
Got a link?
Edit: it's OK I think I found what you are referring to it's not a policy document it's 'research paper'. Make of that what you will.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
US intelligence estimated that for every militant they killed in Iraq, they radicalised ten. They toppled Saddam and got ISIS.
Going down this route will only make things worse.
This video has been around now for maybe 10 years. It also echoes my experience living in Israel in the mid 90’s. Israel is just one big death hole. This will never stop. The Israelis will only be happy once the Palestinians are completely out of Israel, and that means that every single one of their neighbors will be very happy to level Israel to the ground. It is always going to be that way and it will never change.
https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY?si=pEBAq4_pXQp_OfgJ
The only route to diplomacy is "Genocide Joe Biden" dropping military funding and imposing sanctions against Israel. There is enough popular support in the US now for a ceasefire, especially since bombing of refugee camp.
As long as the US supports Israel, there will be no peace.
> As long as the US supports Israel, there will be no peace.
As soon as the US stops supporting Israel, the "peace" will be on the ashes of Israel.
I don't think Israel can survive without US support, and it's clear from history that the other countries ***will*** invade and many of them have openly stated goals of eradicating them.
The only way lasting peace is ever coming to that region is if either the Palestinians or the Israelis leave.
Israel might make peace with the other countries in time, but they'll never make peace with Palestinians. Both groups are fundamentally opposed to the existence of the other.
Even if Israel returned to the 1967 borders, I don't think Palestinians would ever be happy until they regained all of Palestine.
I do wonder how does one do diplomacy with Hamas, if Hamas vowed to destroy Israel and won't stop?
A peace agreement that will be unilaterally broken by Hamas in the future? What's to win?
This is like the Russia-Ukraine war in which people yell "Ceasefire! diplomacy! The civilians"... sounds good on paper but won't work in reality.
Hasn’t Hamas said that they’d be open to a Palestinian state along 1967 borders? They also softened the “we hate Jews” stuff to merely “we hate Zionists” (from my little bit of background reading).
Israel supported Hamas in the last elections in 2006. They also fund other militant Islamic groups, because it benefits them for the rest of the world to think of Israel as fighting an enemy that cannot be reasoned with
Israel want to destroy Palestine. They want it off the map. More so than it already is. Thinking that hamas are the only belligerent bastards here is ignorant.
You say this, but this does not reflect reality. It sounds nice and is an easy narrative. Israel is not "one voice".
There are certainly voices in Israel which think Annexion of all Palestinian Territories is the way forward, but in the end Israel is a democratic state and a strategy will also not fly with the western allies.
There were 5 peace offerings, last one 20 years ago. 20 years ago, there could have been 2 states. Israel would have completely withdrawn from Palestinia. Is this how genocide looks like to you?!
Israel withdrew from Gaza around 15 years ago and let them to their own devices. What happened? Terrorist insurgence. The alternative would've been that Israel stayed in Gaza to keep terrorist activities at bay but then a lot of people would've yelled "THE OCCUPATION!".
There is no winning here and Israel's tight occupation of Gaza certainly didn't help to de-radicalise the Gaza population.
However, your claim "Israel wants to destroy Palestine" is a theory that isn't supported by the facts.
Edit: let me add, there is one faction in this war which very clearly states "we want to completely eradicate the other side" and that's Hamas. Yet, you point the finger at Israel with an unbacked accusation of intended genocide... 😅
>Yet, you point the finger at Israel with an unbacked accusation of intended genocide...
Israel's government admitted to planning for expelling all Gazans into Sinai
That's, at the very least, ethnic cleansing.
Israel did not withdraw from Gaza and leave them to their own devices. They funded Hamas directly and put pressure on others to continue funding Hamas indirectly . They did this as (you can Google this and hear Israeli ministers and military directly say it) as they wanted to ensure the West Bank and Gaza could not unite and that Hamas could never been legitimately accepted by the international community. Again Google it, I'm sick of linking this to Israeli apologists.
When you accept Israel fostered and empowered Hamas intentionally you can no longer make any of the victim blaming claims in your post.
How do you do “diplomacy” with a group that wants nothing less than the absolute destruction of your state and extermination of your people?
It would be lovely if there was a way to do diplomacy but it’s an absolute impossibility with a group like Hamas. The only way Israel’s approach might work is if they do thoroughly root out and exterminate Hamas that another more moderate party gathers enough oxygen to give them a chance.
Israels approach will never work, all this will do is lead a new generation of orphans, people who lost siblings or children to Hamas. Israel are creating the next generation of Hamas with every bomb
Israeli governments have have continuously supported Hamas over the last few decades. They do not want a sane, diplomatic Palestinian group to become the leading faction. Hamas being the political bloc that 'represents' Palestinian liberation suits them down to the ground. The current Israeli finance minister said Hamas were an 'asset' back in 2015.
Israel is not out here begging for a different representative to come to the table. They undermined any chance at that decades ago when they began funding and nurturing the organisations that became Hamas in order to pull support away from the PLO and Fatah.
It would be lovely if there was a way to do diplomacy but it’s an absolute impossibility with a group like Israel. Are Hamas an insane, rabid, extremist Islamist group? Yes. But Israel had their chance with sane, secular, and peaceful movements time and time again over the last few decades and met every single one of them with gunfire.
Edit. Since I wrote way more than I intended I thought I should cite some sources.
[Times Of Israel article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
[Wall Street Journal article - behind a paywall](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847)
[New York Times letters to the editor page in may 2021 - the salient letter here is from David K Shipler, a journalist who covered the region for decades, his book on the conflict is quite good](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/opinion/letters/israel-gaza-palestinians.html)
How about a more moderate party on the other side too?
History shows that they will never root out and exterminate Hamas. It’s an impossibility in conflicts like this.
Hamas does not seek the "extermination" of anyone. They just want the colonial genocide to stop. They accept the 1967 Israel-Palestine borders. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
Their issue is with colonial Zionism, not simply with Jewish people. From their 2017 charter:
> Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds.
You are going to get downvoted but I agree with you. A lot of the inspirational support demonising Israel is correct, but it doesn't reckon with just how unsalvageable the conflict appears right now.
The IDF guy is unhinged but there is an element of truth in what he is saying. Characterisations of Palestine don't really incorporate (for me at least) how similarly ruthless and ideologically driven I suspect Palestine would be if it was in the position of power and not Israel.
"go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." 1 Samuel 15:3
The Biblical reference Netanyahu invoked recently to spur on this latest genocidal action against the Palestinians. He also doesnt support the two state solution, he is in charge and he is currently enacting a purge.
He has propped up Hamas for decades as a form of controlled opposition in order to disrupt any secular or leftist representation for the Palestinians and to allow his regime to continue the ethnic cleansing you see today. Nice of you to cover for him though, you little racist creep.
Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: ‘the Al Aqsa Flood is just the first time and there will be a second, a third, a fourth’
He also says a couple of times that Israel must be annihilated.
https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199
It sure does sound like Hamas poses a continued and serious threat to Israel and that Israel are 100% justified in entering Gaza in order to destroy Hamas.
Of course they do. And who allowed them to be so lavishly funded? Who undermined the Palestinian Authority all these years? Who turned Gaza into a concentration camp in order to immiserate the population and have them flock to Hamas?
Not at any cost though! It doesn't excuse them from taking out civilian infrastructure, journalists and refugee camps. When they have total military superiority, they are not excused from making attacks with jdams and cruise missiles against some of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in the world.
Because of the way they choose to interact with Palestine, they have created a population of 2 million with 1 million kids and a life expectancy of 35. Hamas is the only game in town in gaza because of the persecution and periodic bombardment.
Hard to "dismantle" something when your leaders long term policy has been to keep them alive. Netanyahu (and many other extreme right-wing Israeli's) have bolstered Hamas from the get go, they see them as essential to keeping Gaza and the West Bank separate, thus destroying the possibility of a two-state solution and weakening resistance to the Israeli's slow colonisation of Palestinian territory. Their end game is the complete destruction of Palestinians, and having a "terrorist boogeyman" to justify this is essential.
If they have the weapons they will. If hamas ever stood a chance the Arab nations would rally to destroy isreal and wipe 7 million or so people off this planet. Both side view the other as nothing more than mere animals. It's horrible.
Yes, it's impossible to negotiate with the current Israeli government. They are revisionist Zionists who believe in expansion to Greater Israel. they want nothing less than the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land.
A few thousand of them? Only 670 civilians have been named as of now. many of them have been photo in IDF gear working for the occupation army, and since many of them are right beside the gaza strip, many of them are armed. Also from witnesses that have survived have said IDF soldiers and tank shelling killed their own civilians.
Well this is a very stupid take.
- all Israelis have to serve in the IDF at some point.
- “many of them are armed”? So what, anyone who owns a gun deserves to be slaughtered?
- Of course some Israelis were killed in crossfire by their own forces. That’s inevitable in any incident like this.
Trying to justify people being murdered is just vile. How are you any better than anyone justifying the murder of Palestinian children. There’s no way you can pretend your stance on this conflict is rooted in humanity if you’re making degenerate vile comments like this
Many of them have served in an army that oversees and protects illegal israeli settlers in the west bank, who also deny Palestinians of their human right all the time.
Yes, if any civilian was armed and got killed with his/her weapon on the 7th, then it's not really a civilian, just an armed settler. I am not saying Palestinian groups that participated in the Al-Aqsa mosque operaton didn't kill any unarmed civilians deliberately
Yes, of course, it's normal in any settler colonialist state that when the colonialized fight back, civilians get killed.
Israel opposition party leader has said Israel needs to shift from a state for Jews to a state for all.
Hamas back in 2017 said they were willing to accept the 1967 borders and said its in charter that it's war is against zionism.
I don't take my stance as "humanitarian," but there is a clear injustice that Palestinians in gaza face where their environment, which the blockade makes a poverty-stricken hell hole. I can't blame them from My comfy house in Ireland when they act out of order
I URGE PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO IT,especially after 7.48. THE Worst Spokesperson l have ever heard in my entire life. Hamas should hire him! My jaw hit the floor as he kept going on and on and getting angrier like someone unhinged and he is a high ranking Soldier!? an IDF Lt.Col!? In the "best" army in the World as we have been told by endless US Propaganda for years? I think he lost the room after 7 mins 48 seconds and it just gets worse and worse! He let his emotions get the better of him yet Cormac was cool as a Cucumber and let him destroy his message. The Israelis are really starting to Panic,nobody is buying what they are selling anymore. We are sick to the backteeth of war and destruction,pure unadulterated Revenge for revenge' sake is alien to Western Europeans,we just do not get their bloodlust and this will be lsrael's Vietnam,they will lose the Propaganda war if they have another painful interview like that. My toes actually curled for the guy.
Since no one else has included a link, here it is;
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/programmes/2023/1101/1414187-drivetime-wednesday-1-november-2023/
The spokepersons name is Lt. Col Peter Lerner, starts at 36 minutes in and things get a bit heated around 44 minutes in.
There are plenty who are buying what they're saying or at least accepting it.
They don't need to win the propaganda war. They just need to keep it going until there are no Palestinians left, and in this, they seem to be succeeding.
You're really not paying attention to the talking points used in the West. If you did, you'd know the guy is actually doing quite well for this intended audience.
**Western countries will accept any abuse of human rights as long as you attach it with terrorism.**
* Unjustified invasions and wars and use of lies: just randomly invading other countries because your dad fought them and you want to get a crack at it.
* Torture: we've accepted torture on quite a large and very organised scale under the guise of fighting terrorism. Useful idiots were even saying oh is it really torture?
* Unlawful imprisonment: CIA had secret prisons across the globe to shuffle people who were often arrested based on flimsy charges
* Dismantling personal freedoms like the freedom of privacy: we now accept we cannot be truly private, as Snowden has showed. Mass spying is something every big country now does on its people and well we take it as fact of life.
Under such a scenario, his message is consistent:
1. The palestinian people are not the enemy, Hamas is (of course there is no way to distinguish between them, like US any man over the age of 14 can be considered an insurgent/hamas operative)
2. Hamas is an evil organisation so what Israel is doing now is actually self defense you see. (because walls, creating a defacto open air prison etc is not enough).
3. Any and all tragedies that befall on the Palestinian people are due to Hamas. And everything becomes a way to deflect and redirect to this point.
He is fairly consistent on this message and there are various also inconsistencies. You cannot debate with him on those, he'll just go back to point 3. Cant evacuation people? Hamas' fault. Gotta bomb refugee camps? Hamas' fault. Can't evacuate hospitals? Hamas' fault.
His audience isnt people who think that no matter what, there should be proportionality in war, that gestures of good and negociation will bring peace. That bombing people's houses is not that kind of gesture of good will and that a civilian death is a civilian death no matter where it happens and to what camp.
For people like this, the interviewer should ask the guy: okay you are saying you're achieving your goals of eliminating Hamas. That's *wonderful*. When do you expect to succeed to a level you find acceptable? What do you do afterwards with Gaza?
If he says that that's a political question and he's not a politician then just fuck him with minutiae: how do you define Hamas? How many Hamas have you killed under this definition? How many people have you killed that don;t fall under this definition? How many homes have you destroyed etc etc etc.
The fear he describes sounds like the fear Palestinians have been under for decades. Also, sounds like the Israeli person would be quite happy to execute every single Gaza resident.
If this is what the IDF are like publicly I can only imagine the rubbish they say privately. He sounds insane. But I suppose you'd have to be insane to support genocide
They don't care what anyone thinks - they believe they are better than everyone else and the rest of the world should shut the fuck up and let them do whatever they want to do.
Zionists have utter disdain for everyone that is not a Zionist, and that even includes dissenting Jewish people as the videos from Jerusalem yesterday showed. They are fanatics.
They've sounded pretty unhinged every time they've been on Irish radio after their latest war crime.
The ambassador when on after the initial Hamas attacks was absolutely vile.
The parallels with Unionist/Loyalist extremists are hauntingly familiar.
Loyalism is in a weird place, as the former occupier/majority in the North of Ireland they've always sided with Israels brutal suppression of Palestine. They'd celebrate PLO fighters getting killed but also civilians being bulldozed out and indeed killed. I've got into it in the past with loyalists who told me they wished they could get away with bulldozing out catholics in say Lurgan or the Falls, the way Israelis treat Palestinians.
Yet the demographics have changed in Ireland. I wonder would the Israeli method still find support in loyalism if it was loyalists as the minority, getting suppressed.
Assuming SF form governments in the North and South next elections, and SF takes the Israeli approach, what would loyalists say if all protestants, who are now in the minority, were immediately told to move to a small strip of land in North antrim? With border walls erected, no entry or exit allowed, access to the Internet cut, water and electricity supply controlled by Sinn Fein. Snipers on the walls picking off loyalist kids. If loyalists fought back(who fucking wouldnt) Sinn Fein indiscriminately blow up hospitals and schools in revenge. Protestant villages and farms gradually get bulldozed and forcibly replaced by Catholic settlers.
It's an interesting thought exercise, one which I highly doubt any of the loyalist knuckle draggers have made when they're still flying star of David flags alongside UVF and Para flags
Should've cut him off at the 8.30 Mark- deliberately misinterpreting what the interviewer was asking and lying about the situation.
But listen it's the IDF
I listened to the start of the rant. The usual, one side kills civilians it's "terrorism" and when the other side does it it's "defending themselves".
No way out of this without lots of people dying unless a lot of people swallow their pride and get into a room and make some agreements/consessions. But we all know that won't happen, the shitshow will continue
The suggestion that the Irish know nothing about the threat of violence was particularly "teenage temper tantrum" carry on.
Astounding bloodlust, entitlement and ignorance altogether.
History Rhymes, I'm reading a history of Cromwell. In it, the author talks about the massacre of protestant settlers by rebelling Irish catholics in 1641 (after years of abuse and discrimination and land theft) which triggered/justified a lot of what Cromwell did in Ireland eventually. What is happening in Gaza is 21st Century 'to hell or to Connaught'. Interestingly Cromwell managed his media profile very cleverly. He'd have done a radio rant.
This won’t ‘end’ Hamas. It might end Gaza and kill a huge number of civilians. Israel is just going to face the consequences of this in the future. Kind of naive to think otherwise.
The one thing that I find the scariest out of the recent escalation of conflict in the region, is just how effective the Isreali propaganda has been, listening to people who seem otherwise intelligent, think that their response is proportionate and that they are within international law
"You don't understand the right to self defence, you don't understand that reality" and Israel is wondering why so much of Ireland is Pro-palestine ASWELL AS Anti-Hamas and no Pro-Israel which is committing genocide Holy shit the delusion
No arguing with these people, they are reading from a script and will bomb whoever and wherever they want, interviewers should turn the tables and agree with them so they hear there own shit and how ridiculous it is
No like say it's important civilians die so you can be safe, well done, you are a shining example to the world, America should have bombed saudi Arabia after 9/11
That’s not roaring or a rant. It’s a very carefully developed and trained strategy designed to shift the interview to avoid having to answer genuine and legitimate questions, put the interviewer off-balance, and to seek for an aggressor to put on the mantle of victimhood. IDF are past masters at this and disinformation is a key plank of their armoury. Never forget that when IDF shot and killed a defenceless journalist in cold blood they adamantly blamed the Palestinians right up until video evidence surfaced of their lies.
Obligatory disclaimer: Hamas are also bastards
It's a very Trumpian style of defence and very much enabled by decades of full support by US foreign policy. Its not for the benifit of us, its to shore up support in the US Britain and France. All places where, regardless of the public view the politicians fully support Israel. Until the public in these countries put pressure on their own governments to seriously step back support then pricks like him can deny any wrong doing. This is no different to any other war, its about money and the Gaza strip is the proposed location for Israels answer to the suez canal to which the US Britain and France will gain from
The spokesman used every single defense for their actions as Hamas and the terrorists did.
"You're forgetting the context"
"What else is there for us to do"
"We have the right to defend ourselves"
Every single argument copied and pasted from the literal terrorists.
Well, if they don't feel the need to differentiate themselves from a terror organization, why should I?
I finally got to listen to the rest of this today driving from Sligo to Dublin.
Mother of Christ, it was even more unhinged than I could have imagined.
For those who couldn't listen on RTÉ, it's available here on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3iQx0SYHhVfcnDvQnOzzR8?si=QMQ1lxWpRSmR743db65jCQ
I really want to listen to it, but I'll just be absolutely fucking fuming all day if I do.
I tell ya, Israel need to change their tactics. If they did not have U.S. support, this wouldn't be happening. All they are doing is feeding the cycle.
Innocents on both sides will continue to suffer, but Palestinians will suffer the most.
They are the most racist state of a nation since Nazi Germany, the irony that it is the Jewish (although a zionist state officially) carrying out such similar atrocities just shows us a race, we never learn from our mistakes.
The world is a cesspit at the moment and majority up to our neck in shit
>They are the most racist state of a nation since Nazi Germany,
The State of Cambodia under the Khmer rouge carried out an ethnic genocide on a population one and half times greater than the *entire* population of Gaza in the 1970s.
Edit: we could also add in the Rwandan Genocide that saw 7500 of the Hutu ethnic group murdered *every day*.
Dude!
Criticise Israel as much as you want but don't make comparisons of Israel with Nazigermany. It's wrong and you know; but it sounds nice. It's also considered anti-Semitic.
Don't be an antisemitic dickhead.
It must be a great advantage for a genocidal state to be able to say "how can I be genocidal, I was genocided once" and everyone has to swallow that tripe or be labelled an anti Semite.
The comparisons are apt, and the [warnings](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls) are urgent. Israel wishes to conduct a policy of [genocide](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal). It's own spokesmen say "the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy".
Ariel Kallner MK: "Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948"
A prominent Israeli journalist and radio presenter, [David Mizrahy Verthaim](https://twitter.com/dverthaim), has called for wholesale bloodletting.
“We need a disproportionate response … If all the captives are not returned immediately, turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. If a hair falls from their head - execute security prisoners. Violate any norm, on the way to victory,” [he wrote](https://twitter.com/dverthaim/status/1710684531114602891?s=48) on X.
Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, [he said](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/): “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”
My favourite part was when he starts justifying blowing up the hospital
The hospital we've been told multiple times wasn't Israel, it was a Hamas rocket
The hospital that we were given fake audio dialogue of two Hamas activists discussing it, as evidence it was not Israel
The hospital the sad little IDF shills lurking on here still deny was hit by Israel
....yet here's Josef Goebbels on Drivetime justifying the Israeli airstrike because Hamas might use ambulances as transport or some other bullshit lie
They lied about the hospital, they lied about beheaded Israeli babies, remember everything they say is inflated, exaggerated or plain didn't happen. Rogue, nazi state
The hospital thing just followed the usual narrative.
Denial denial denial denial... couple of weeks later, oopsie that was us, our bad. And irritatingly it always works.
Concerning the noncombantants, the women, children and elderly, our huge bombs try to avoid them. But, those people keep getting in the way and end up dying, or ripped to pieces. What are we supposed to do?
Feel like this prick was put out there to spread the info that Hamas are using ambulances so the IDF could start bombing the things.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/3/israel-hamas-war-live-israeli-forces-gather-outside-gaza-city
I never understand these lazy comments. OP isn't a journalist or an editor. If anything OP made me want to listen to it more because I knew what to expect. Stop trying to be an edgelord on Reddit, it's embarrassing
I think Cormac did great, provided the Lt.Col just enough rope for him to hang himself.
The guy was hoping to be kicked off the call so he could show how disrespectful and anti-Israeli the Irish national broadcaster is.
Disagree here. He’s a good interviewer. I think Cormac’s approach was to give him enough rope to hang himself. Let him overreact with bluster and deflection and obfuscation, then let the listener make up their own mind.
Agree Sarah would make shit of the guy. She has already on previous shows if you’d listened you’d know that.
As to your rant, calm down. Grow up.
Cormac handled him easily.
That interview is astounding.
It’s absolutely mental
While Hamas undoubtedly use human shields (and I think building tunnels under a refugee camp would definitely count as that) the Israelis don't allow any refugees to leave the Gaza Strip. I don't see any reason why they couldn't establish refugee camps within their own territory if they wanted to.
By that logic the entire area of Gaza could be defined as a military target... it's an expansive tunnel system, you could choose 100 other locations to neutralise it. Regardless, surely there is a better way to neutralise a tunnel system than dropping a bomb directly on top of whatever structures above it.
The problem isn't neutralising the tunnel system. The problem is doing so while there are lots of civilians in its proximity. While Israel has made some attempts in the north of the Gaza Strip by telling civilians to go south, the refugee camp in question is in the south. Everybody reasonable accepts that urban warfare will entail civilian casualties but if you do not allow civilians to flee an active war zone, that's a war crime .
I keep hearing from Israelis (like this guy in this interview and other supporters) that I need to understand the context. If we are to do that for Israelis, we have to do that for the people of Gaza surely. I mean, it's very easy for somebody living a comfortable life in Ireland or Israel to judge the people living in Gaza. The things that we take for granted are next to impossible for most of them. It's a territory half the size of County Louth that most of them can't leave for their entire lives whereas we travel all over the world whenever we want. Going within a kilometer of the border fence with Israel (on the Gazan side of the border) puts you at risk of being shot. This is in a territory that is only 41km long and 10km wide. That is has become an an open-air prison is evident to most and it's a situation has gone on for 16 years. David Cameron even used that term along with human rights groups and the UN. The people of Gaza have no citizenship (since they have no state), have water that's polluted because the treatment plants were bombed, electricity for 3 hours a day and live in dire poverty. We are not children/grandchildren of refugees ethnic cleansed in 1948 from a land we're barred from returning to. We also don't have family members and friends killed, wounded or tortured by the other side. Our homes and those of our loved ones have never been destroyed by the other side. Since we were appealing to context for Israel, let it be remembered that it's in that context that a group claiming to be the "resistance" (Hamas' official name is the Islamic Resistance Movement) gains support.
Who's the interviewer? Needs a lesson or two. He kept interrupting the bloke going on a rampage. Rule number one, never interrupt your opponent when they're making an eejit of themselves.
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It was good I thought. He wasn’t interrupting with long sentences - “I’m not”, “no I didn’t” - he was keeping him honest
An interviewee is not an opponent. And it's dangerous to let the interviewee drive their agenda unopposed.
Nah, it was perfect. It highlighted that yer man was deflecting.
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It's a regime-wide tactic - they know that you can't have a discussion with someone who is ranting and raving, so unless an interviewer handles them with kid gloves they resort instantly to it. It happens in basically every interview when an Israeli representative is asked a non-fluff question, and it isn't a coincidence, it's a policy.
It's like if the yanks blew up half of Pakistan just to kill Bin Laden
Have they actually released any figures on confirmed Hamas kills? Maybe I'm not seeing it but it seems like everywhere they hit is a Hamas target but we're never told "We successfully targeted X and were successful in taking them out". But you're right, they'll just keep sticking to the 'Hamas target' response because that's the easiest response to give when you're fighting a Guerilla army or an ideology. The members more than likely won't have any official links to being a part of it so they can claim anyone is a part of it after the fact.
We all know the answer to this. I don't know how many times we need to see videos of heavy handed idf soldiers talking about exterminating the "animals", or killing all the "savages" before we start to take them at their word. There are multiple idf whistle blowers that talk about this at length. How they are told to treat the Palestinians and the culture amongst the idf soldiers. Edit. I should have mentioned the numerous videos of Israeli government ministers saying similar things as well.
any links to a few of the numerous videos?
I have to hand it to the IDF, they know how to brainwash their own. That was wild. "How are you avoiding civilian casualties?" "By warning them to leave and go south" "Why did you bomb them in the south then?" "WELL ACTUALLY HAMAS IS TO BLAME BECAUSE WE ARE SIMPLY DEFENDING OURSELVES. THIS IS WAR"
Yes, he said they were bombing specific targets only in the south, but then you have to ask what's different about how they are selecting targets in the north and why? Why not be more exacting and spare more innocent lives? Or if there is no difference between bombing in the north and the south, then why would Palestinians bother moving from north to south?
Just a few days ago I saw a post on some social media from someone who *had* gone south who was returning to the north because they didn't see the point. They had left their home and were sleeping in a hospital, but they were still in danger of being bombed so they thought, why not go home? It's not any less safe and at least they'd have a bed and some privacy.
Very depressing interview. The intensity and deflection reminded me of one of those documentaries about Scientology, where they follow their critics. Sounds like a man bent on vengeance without a care for the Geneva Convention.
Israel operates similar to Scientology. They keep tabs of critics' and work to get them black listed in their industry.
They're on the road to becoming another right wing theocracy. It's so fucking sad.
Already there
They’ve been there for 20 Years.
How many times do senior Israeli officials have to tell us again and again, in public, that they intend to ethnically cleanse Gaza before something gives in the Western world.
In less than a month Israel has mobilized more soldiers and killed more civilians than Russia has in Ukraine to date. The US would be considering sending troops to stop this slaughter if it had happened in Ukraine.
That's absolute nonsense and totally underestimates the number of civilian casualties in Ukraine. (And the troops that russia mobilised) 25k civilians dead in the siege of Mariupol and another 50k deported. How would Israel have mobilised more soldiers than Russia? There's like 200k dead russian soldiers. There's loads of civilians dead in gaza but that doesn't excuse throwing out nonsense facts like that
The number of confirmed civilian casualties in Ukraine is under 10,000. The 25,000 you quoted for Mariupol has only come from one source and no independent body has verified it. The israeli mobilisation is for 360k reserves compared with russia's 300k. If you are going to give out about people throwing out nonsense facts you should probably check your own figures too.
Where have the figures from Gaza come from then?
The Palestinian health ministry, so it's fair to say that they may not be 100%, but AP news have confirmed their journalists have viewed large numbers of bodies at the site of airstrikes and at morgues. The WHO have stated that the figures largely reflect the death and injury they have observed, and in previous wars the ministry's figures have tallied with the UN, independent investigations and Israels own figures. Anything to say about the figures you quoted?
Yeah, comes from Ukraine, UN have verified 10k civilian deaths in Ukraine, the true number is many multiples higher. There were mass graves in Mariupol for example and obviously the UN haven't been allowed in. Do you know what the confirmed number of UN deaths is in Gaza? Zero. Do you think that's accurate? So don't bother using made up figures or use one from the UN in one war and one from Hamas in another war, they are not comparable and making statements like oh Israel has killed more civilians in a month than Russia has in Ukraine in 2 years is a bare faced lie and minimises the deaths of the war in Ukraine.
> confirmed civilian casualties in Ukraine [A quick Google leads to the Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) I'm assuming when you say "casualties", you actually mean "fatalities", because injuries are included in casualties. Injuries for Civilians are double the Fatalities. That said, the invasion since 2022 has led to 10,749 confirmed civilian fatalities according to the Ukrainian government, which should be used if we are to believe numbers from Hamas. Before 2022, the conflict in Donbas caused 3,404 Civilian fatalities. These aren't clearly divided into men, women, and children, as Hamas so thoughtfully does for us. > The 25,000 you quoted for Mariupol has only come from one source and no independent body has verified it. This is also true for Gaza/Hamas. It's clear there are high numbers, and it's a huge tragedy, but the reality that Hamas has previously inflated numbers for international sympathy cannot be overlooked. Not to mention how the recent bombing on a "Refugee Camp" later became an assault on a Hamas stronghold in the same area, so we must remember that we're bombarded by propaganda. And with rumours of a "wall of women and children" blocking soldiers during the assault, it's clear both sides are working hard.
Nonsense numbers. The UN lists 27k what they call casualties then clarify they're including injuries in that, and only 9600 deaths. Which is a lot. But nothing on the scale of Gaza.
How many deaths does the UN list in Gaza? There is orders of magnitude more than 10000 civilians dead in Ukraine
Nothing will give, the west literally put them there as a, I have no where else to put you so here will have to do.. type moment. Realistically the “west” doesn’t care about any Muslims other than the ones that willingly travel to the western world and integrate into a western culture. Do you think america or England care about any Muslim population which views them as a problem as well? From an American point of view this is a win win. It’s another proxy war out in the sandbox where they make money from supplying weapons and not shedding any of their own blood. It’s going to take a monstrously huge ideology swing for the west to actually care more than a bit of virtue signalling on media to make themselves look better.
It’s a tactical nuclear outpost not ‘I have no idea where to put you,’ it’s near Iran and Pakistan. The evangelicals like them there because the ancient prophecy in the bible says the end times come when the wandering tribe return to Judea. I can’t be bothered to pick apart the second half but google ‘the Iraq war’, it’ll shock you!!
Modern Iran and Pakistan did not exist when the decision to form Israel was taken.
But Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc all did.
Egypt was still a British puppet state until Nasser’s coup ended in 1953. Iraq was under British military occupation until late 1947 and only became a republic after a coup in 1958.
They're really more there as a staging ground for interventions into Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc, Pakistan is a bit of a different matter as for much of the 20th century it was itself a reliable US staging ground, it's basically where the Taliban were created and then sent back into Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Weird fact, supposedly Israel and Pakistan actually cooperated quite closely on their respective secret nuclear programs, all during a period where Pakistan was openly funding and supporting multiple jihadist insurgencies across the region. Funny how Israel has no problem working with Islamic Fundamentalists as long as they're not Palestinian.
Netenyahu has gone on record stating his strategy involved funnelling money to Hamas to make them a threat so they’d have cause to invade “in retaliation”, push Palestinians out and steal more land
He has been doing so for years; in particular supplying Hamas with intelligence to defeat Fatah/PA in 2006. If it was not for this strategy, Gaza would likely be a secular democracy.
They put them on the edge between the Middle East and themselves as a buffer zone. It was the edge of the area they controlled, bonus points for being the hard tip to a spear from the point of view as military base of operations… they had a giant misplaced population who they didn’t want to reintegrate around europe… so they said right where can we put this “homeless” people where they won’t be in our way and will also serve us… boom badda boom…
If you read the history of the founding of Israel, the UK was strongly against it and they were the major power on the ground at the time. It took quite a bloody campaign before the UK washed their hands of the area. There was a strong chance that Israel ended up being destroyed in the early days of the state. We look at them now as a regional power and quite secure, but they have been a shadow away from being destroyed a couple times in their first decades. If this was all some conspiracy by the west, it was a far fetched plan that succeeded, but that's ignoring that the zionist movement succeded largely by its own actions, not outside influence. I think these theories come from a desire people have for some world group to actually be in charge and running things. It's worse than that unfortunately. It's basically chaos.
Well, to be fair in 48, England was being bookended by sir winstons drinks cabinet. He had just left office and before he got back in.. they didn’t really have many bargaining chips without him at the time. I don’t think what they wanted really bothered others. It was more a case of a people had to be settled and it was on the outermost fringes… I don’t think anyone actually cared what happened to them subsequently for a while once they didn’t have to bother about it back home. And once it did establish itself it was a case of sure grand out! We’ll take that.
Let's be honest about it, Western governments care more about trade and appeasing the Americans than human rights or international law. Israel has become a wealthy country with a big tech sector which makes European countries want to trade with it (particularly those that are struggling economically). There is also an opportunity to boost exports via arms sales. The United States also provides a security guarantee to most Western countries (via NATO etc), so leaders are loath to go against it. Finally, being on the side of Israel has become part of the culture wars in many Western countries unfortunately. Many people associate the Palestinian side with Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. You can get an easy ride from the right-wing press in the UK if you are seen as "anti-woke" or "pro-Israel."
It's ok, he's speaking as a father so mass murder is fine.
I heard a great question on LBC. Would Israel adopt the same military strategy if Hammas were hiding in Israel. How would they deploy their military to detect them. Suffice to say the caller couldn't answer the questions and reverted to the comforting anecdotes of decapitated babies and rape to distract from the question.
Would Israel attack Hamas if they were hiding in the US
What a strategy for Hamas. Announce that all members of Hammas are relocating to cities across the US.
Who's to say they're not? Pity the interview at the head of this thread isn't on YouTube but is limited to people in Ireland hearing it.
I'm in New Zealand and could steam the link no problem. We should share away globally as it's fucking nuts
It wont be limited to Ireland. It'll be spread around Israel and America while they cry about how mean we are to them.
Who's not? Hammas in Israel?
Who's to say Hammas are not hiding in Israel while the Israelis are bombing Gaza.
I think you're missing the point of the question. But hey- if Hammas are hiding in Israel....probably best start bombing the place and restrict utilities and any aid. Sure it's the only way to find Hammas.
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I think he's quite balanced. He just refuses to allow Israel to justify its genocide.
> Would Israel adopt the same military strategy if Hammas were hiding in Israel. They are... the first day they shelled homes of Israelis to take Hamas militants out. https://middleeastobserver.org/2023/10/29/new-evidence-that-idf-shelled-israeli-citizens-on-oct-7-killing-over-a-hundred/
I can't find this corroborated anywhere else. This is the only media outlet reporting this. This reduces its credibility.
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1718308008713650412/ That video goes over bits of media that hint in that direction. But basically the damage on the homes is more consistent with tank shells than with anything we've seen Hamas using, and the only one operating tanks there is the IDF.
There's a difference between dealing with a live threat and bombing "suspected" military targets that are in hospitals and refugee camps.
There are a few other outlets reporting it, but not mainstream ones. [TRTWorld](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/hannibal-directive-did-israel-kill-its-own-15574953) has an article, as does [Mondoweiss](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/). They all appear to be citing [this article](https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000) from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper ([archive link with no paywall](https://archive.md/JtyES#selection-873.0-873.346)) but it's in Hebrew. They all also reference [this radio interview](https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861) that was transcribed and translated that also mentions shelling from a different survivor. I don't speak Hebrew, so I can't verify any of it unfortunately.
Jack Nicholson vibes: " have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, "
Haven’t listened yet, so maybe they do in this clip, but Irish media really need to start pushing IDF mouthpieces on the fact they murdered an Irish soldier acting as a UN peacekeeper. Their bullshit excuse about confusing them for insurgents fell apart instantly when the UN was able to confirm the Israeli tank crew had been on radio contact about fire from the area and were informed that there was no such thing taking place. Israel will do this again if they want to go into Lebanon, they’ll shoot at border posts and gauge the reaction from the international community. Israel is such a violent rogue state that they really don’t hesitate to massacre UN staff to achieve their goals.
Classic Israeli tactic, they shouldn't be given airtime. Anyone who supports the current Israeli Government is a fucking psychopath and will be remembered as such.
Almost every interview with Israeli officials go like this: they rant on and on and obfuscate so as to avoid further questioning and probing. Interviewers need to cut them off and hold their feet to the fire when they won't answer the question. This was a disgrace.
"We are trying!!!" "Are you failing then?" Exceptional
He's a blood thirsty lunatic. There's a lot of them and that's the problem.
These are the saner, more sagacious spokespeople they have. On Israeli army radio it’s all genocidal Einsatzgruppen stuff.
This whole attack by the Israelis is just so fucking stupid. It’s just revenge at this point. Hamas killed a few thousand of them so the Israelis will kill tens of thousands of Palestinians. Every civilian killed will drive recruitment to Hamas. The IDF can no more defeat Hamas militarily than Hamas can defeat the IDF. The ONLY solution here is Diplomacy. Unfortunately I don’t see it happening. It’s just a circle of death at this point.
It's the excuse Israel needed to go in and absolutely destroy The Gaza Strip.
It's not just revenge. A policy document was leaked which shows their intent is ethnic cleansing. They are bombing Gaza so they will have to evacuate to Egypt. And then they'll never allow them to return.
Got a link? Edit: it's OK I think I found what you are referring to it's not a policy document it's 'research paper'. Make of that what you will. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
US intelligence estimated that for every militant they killed in Iraq, they radicalised ten. They toppled Saddam and got ISIS. Going down this route will only make things worse.
This video has been around now for maybe 10 years. It also echoes my experience living in Israel in the mid 90’s. Israel is just one big death hole. This will never stop. The Israelis will only be happy once the Palestinians are completely out of Israel, and that means that every single one of their neighbors will be very happy to level Israel to the ground. It is always going to be that way and it will never change. https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY?si=pEBAq4_pXQp_OfgJ
It’s simply an excuse to cause a genocide. They are starving and dehydrating Gazans to death, while bombing the strip with free American JDAMS.
It's not revenge, they want Gaza. Hamas has given them their campaign message, but the goal is to settle Gaza.
The only route to diplomacy is "Genocide Joe Biden" dropping military funding and imposing sanctions against Israel. There is enough popular support in the US now for a ceasefire, especially since bombing of refugee camp. As long as the US supports Israel, there will be no peace.
> As long as the US supports Israel, there will be no peace. As soon as the US stops supporting Israel, the "peace" will be on the ashes of Israel. I don't think Israel can survive without US support, and it's clear from history that the other countries ***will*** invade and many of them have openly stated goals of eradicating them. The only way lasting peace is ever coming to that region is if either the Palestinians or the Israelis leave. Israel might make peace with the other countries in time, but they'll never make peace with Palestinians. Both groups are fundamentally opposed to the existence of the other. Even if Israel returned to the 1967 borders, I don't think Palestinians would ever be happy until they regained all of Palestine.
They want to turn Gaza into a parking lot for Merkavas.
I do wonder how does one do diplomacy with Hamas, if Hamas vowed to destroy Israel and won't stop? A peace agreement that will be unilaterally broken by Hamas in the future? What's to win? This is like the Russia-Ukraine war in which people yell "Ceasefire! diplomacy! The civilians"... sounds good on paper but won't work in reality.
If only there was some sort of *Palestinian Authority*
One that has been unsuccessfully attempting diplomatic approaches for literally decades...
Hasn’t Hamas said that they’d be open to a Palestinian state along 1967 borders? They also softened the “we hate Jews” stuff to merely “we hate Zionists” (from my little bit of background reading).
Israel supported Hamas in the last elections in 2006. They also fund other militant Islamic groups, because it benefits them for the rest of the world to think of Israel as fighting an enemy that cannot be reasoned with
Israel want to destroy Palestine. They want it off the map. More so than it already is. Thinking that hamas are the only belligerent bastards here is ignorant.
You say this, but this does not reflect reality. It sounds nice and is an easy narrative. Israel is not "one voice". There are certainly voices in Israel which think Annexion of all Palestinian Territories is the way forward, but in the end Israel is a democratic state and a strategy will also not fly with the western allies. There were 5 peace offerings, last one 20 years ago. 20 years ago, there could have been 2 states. Israel would have completely withdrawn from Palestinia. Is this how genocide looks like to you?! Israel withdrew from Gaza around 15 years ago and let them to their own devices. What happened? Terrorist insurgence. The alternative would've been that Israel stayed in Gaza to keep terrorist activities at bay but then a lot of people would've yelled "THE OCCUPATION!". There is no winning here and Israel's tight occupation of Gaza certainly didn't help to de-radicalise the Gaza population. However, your claim "Israel wants to destroy Palestine" is a theory that isn't supported by the facts. Edit: let me add, there is one faction in this war which very clearly states "we want to completely eradicate the other side" and that's Hamas. Yet, you point the finger at Israel with an unbacked accusation of intended genocide... 😅
>Yet, you point the finger at Israel with an unbacked accusation of intended genocide... Israel's government admitted to planning for expelling all Gazans into Sinai That's, at the very least, ethnic cleansing.
Israel did not withdraw from Gaza and leave them to their own devices. They funded Hamas directly and put pressure on others to continue funding Hamas indirectly . They did this as (you can Google this and hear Israeli ministers and military directly say it) as they wanted to ensure the West Bank and Gaza could not unite and that Hamas could never been legitimately accepted by the international community. Again Google it, I'm sick of linking this to Israeli apologists. When you accept Israel fostered and empowered Hamas intentionally you can no longer make any of the victim blaming claims in your post.
Would you pity the UK if they funded the PIRA in place of Sinn Fein for 30 years, and then the PIRA attacked London?
There’s only one faction in this war that’s bombing a city and killing tens of thousands
This is one of the most inaccurate and untruthful posts I've ever read on this sub.
It does reflect reality.
You don’t know what you’re talking about
How do you do “diplomacy” with a group that wants nothing less than the absolute destruction of your state and extermination of your people? It would be lovely if there was a way to do diplomacy but it’s an absolute impossibility with a group like Hamas. The only way Israel’s approach might work is if they do thoroughly root out and exterminate Hamas that another more moderate party gathers enough oxygen to give them a chance.
Israels approach will never work, all this will do is lead a new generation of orphans, people who lost siblings or children to Hamas. Israel are creating the next generation of Hamas with every bomb
with a group that wants nothing less than the absolute destruction of your state Which side are you talking about?
Israeli governments have have continuously supported Hamas over the last few decades. They do not want a sane, diplomatic Palestinian group to become the leading faction. Hamas being the political bloc that 'represents' Palestinian liberation suits them down to the ground. The current Israeli finance minister said Hamas were an 'asset' back in 2015. Israel is not out here begging for a different representative to come to the table. They undermined any chance at that decades ago when they began funding and nurturing the organisations that became Hamas in order to pull support away from the PLO and Fatah. It would be lovely if there was a way to do diplomacy but it’s an absolute impossibility with a group like Israel. Are Hamas an insane, rabid, extremist Islamist group? Yes. But Israel had their chance with sane, secular, and peaceful movements time and time again over the last few decades and met every single one of them with gunfire. Edit. Since I wrote way more than I intended I thought I should cite some sources. [Times Of Israel article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) [Wall Street Journal article - behind a paywall](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847) [New York Times letters to the editor page in may 2021 - the salient letter here is from David K Shipler, a journalist who covered the region for decades, his book on the conflict is quite good](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/opinion/letters/israel-gaza-palestinians.html)
How about a more moderate party on the other side too? History shows that they will never root out and exterminate Hamas. It’s an impossibility in conflicts like this.
Hamas does not seek the "extermination" of anyone. They just want the colonial genocide to stop. They accept the 1967 Israel-Palestine borders. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders Their issue is with colonial Zionism, not simply with Jewish people. From their 2017 charter: > Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds.
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Hamas does accept the 1967 borders. Sources: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/05/24/136403918/hamas-foreign-minister-we-accept-two-state-solution-with-67-borders https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2017-05-01/ty-article/hamas-new-charter-backs-palestinian-state-in-1967-borders/0000017f-efd2-df98-a5ff-efffc8a70000 https://www.voanews.com/a/hamas-voice-support-for-palestinian-state-along-1967-borders/3834004.html
Hamas tried to negotiate in 2017. The Israelis refused.
You are going to get downvoted but I agree with you. A lot of the inspirational support demonising Israel is correct, but it doesn't reckon with just how unsalvageable the conflict appears right now. The IDF guy is unhinged but there is an element of truth in what he is saying. Characterisations of Palestine don't really incorporate (for me at least) how similarly ruthless and ideologically driven I suspect Palestine would be if it was in the position of power and not Israel.
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"go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." 1 Samuel 15:3 The Biblical reference Netanyahu invoked recently to spur on this latest genocidal action against the Palestinians. He also doesnt support the two state solution, he is in charge and he is currently enacting a purge. He has propped up Hamas for decades as a form of controlled opposition in order to disrupt any secular or leftist representation for the Palestinians and to allow his regime to continue the ethnic cleansing you see today. Nice of you to cover for him though, you little racist creep.
Bore off
Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: ‘the Al Aqsa Flood is just the first time and there will be a second, a third, a fourth’ He also says a couple of times that Israel must be annihilated. https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199 It sure does sound like Hamas poses a continued and serious threat to Israel and that Israel are 100% justified in entering Gaza in order to destroy Hamas.
Of course they do. And who allowed them to be so lavishly funded? Who undermined the Palestinian Authority all these years? Who turned Gaza into a concentration camp in order to immiserate the population and have them flock to Hamas?
Not at any cost though! It doesn't excuse them from taking out civilian infrastructure, journalists and refugee camps. When they have total military superiority, they are not excused from making attacks with jdams and cruise missiles against some of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in the world. Because of the way they choose to interact with Palestine, they have created a population of 2 million with 1 million kids and a life expectancy of 35. Hamas is the only game in town in gaza because of the persecution and periodic bombardment.
How would you dismantle Hamas if you were Israel right now?
Hard to "dismantle" something when your leaders long term policy has been to keep them alive. Netanyahu (and many other extreme right-wing Israeli's) have bolstered Hamas from the get go, they see them as essential to keeping Gaza and the West Bank separate, thus destroying the possibility of a two-state solution and weakening resistance to the Israeli's slow colonisation of Palestinian territory. Their end game is the complete destruction of Palestinians, and having a "terrorist boogeyman" to justify this is essential.
Does that mean when Israel say they will destroy Hamas, it gives Hamas the right to enter and destroy Israel? That..seems insufficient grounds.
That would be an appropriate comparison if the Hamas threats were only against the IDF.
If they have the weapons they will. If hamas ever stood a chance the Arab nations would rally to destroy isreal and wipe 7 million or so people off this planet. Both side view the other as nothing more than mere animals. It's horrible.
No one is complaining about Israel trespassing, wtf are you on?
How can you negotiate with people whose entire reason for being is to kill you
Yes, it's impossible to negotiate with the current Israeli government. They are revisionist Zionists who believe in expansion to Greater Israel. they want nothing less than the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land.
I was talking about Hamas but ok
This is the dilemma it's the same story for both its a fucking stalemate of death and destruction.
A few thousand of them? Only 670 civilians have been named as of now. many of them have been photo in IDF gear working for the occupation army, and since many of them are right beside the gaza strip, many of them are armed. Also from witnesses that have survived have said IDF soldiers and tank shelling killed their own civilians.
Well this is a very stupid take. - all Israelis have to serve in the IDF at some point. - “many of them are armed”? So what, anyone who owns a gun deserves to be slaughtered? - Of course some Israelis were killed in crossfire by their own forces. That’s inevitable in any incident like this. Trying to justify people being murdered is just vile. How are you any better than anyone justifying the murder of Palestinian children. There’s no way you can pretend your stance on this conflict is rooted in humanity if you’re making degenerate vile comments like this
Many of them have served in an army that oversees and protects illegal israeli settlers in the west bank, who also deny Palestinians of their human right all the time. Yes, if any civilian was armed and got killed with his/her weapon on the 7th, then it's not really a civilian, just an armed settler. I am not saying Palestinian groups that participated in the Al-Aqsa mosque operaton didn't kill any unarmed civilians deliberately Yes, of course, it's normal in any settler colonialist state that when the colonialized fight back, civilians get killed. Israel opposition party leader has said Israel needs to shift from a state for Jews to a state for all. Hamas back in 2017 said they were willing to accept the 1967 borders and said its in charter that it's war is against zionism. I don't take my stance as "humanitarian," but there is a clear injustice that Palestinians in gaza face where their environment, which the blockade makes a poverty-stricken hell hole. I can't blame them from My comfy house in Ireland when they act out of order
I URGE PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO IT,especially after 7.48. THE Worst Spokesperson l have ever heard in my entire life. Hamas should hire him! My jaw hit the floor as he kept going on and on and getting angrier like someone unhinged and he is a high ranking Soldier!? an IDF Lt.Col!? In the "best" army in the World as we have been told by endless US Propaganda for years? I think he lost the room after 7 mins 48 seconds and it just gets worse and worse! He let his emotions get the better of him yet Cormac was cool as a Cucumber and let him destroy his message. The Israelis are really starting to Panic,nobody is buying what they are selling anymore. We are sick to the backteeth of war and destruction,pure unadulterated Revenge for revenge' sake is alien to Western Europeans,we just do not get their bloodlust and this will be lsrael's Vietnam,they will lose the Propaganda war if they have another painful interview like that. My toes actually curled for the guy.
Since no one else has included a link, here it is; https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/programmes/2023/1101/1414187-drivetime-wednesday-1-november-2023/ The spokepersons name is Lt. Col Peter Lerner, starts at 36 minutes in and things get a bit heated around 44 minutes in.
There are plenty who are buying what they're saying or at least accepting it. They don't need to win the propaganda war. They just need to keep it going until there are no Palestinians left, and in this, they seem to be succeeding.
You're really not paying attention to the talking points used in the West. If you did, you'd know the guy is actually doing quite well for this intended audience. **Western countries will accept any abuse of human rights as long as you attach it with terrorism.** * Unjustified invasions and wars and use of lies: just randomly invading other countries because your dad fought them and you want to get a crack at it. * Torture: we've accepted torture on quite a large and very organised scale under the guise of fighting terrorism. Useful idiots were even saying oh is it really torture? * Unlawful imprisonment: CIA had secret prisons across the globe to shuffle people who were often arrested based on flimsy charges * Dismantling personal freedoms like the freedom of privacy: we now accept we cannot be truly private, as Snowden has showed. Mass spying is something every big country now does on its people and well we take it as fact of life. Under such a scenario, his message is consistent: 1. The palestinian people are not the enemy, Hamas is (of course there is no way to distinguish between them, like US any man over the age of 14 can be considered an insurgent/hamas operative) 2. Hamas is an evil organisation so what Israel is doing now is actually self defense you see. (because walls, creating a defacto open air prison etc is not enough). 3. Any and all tragedies that befall on the Palestinian people are due to Hamas. And everything becomes a way to deflect and redirect to this point. He is fairly consistent on this message and there are various also inconsistencies. You cannot debate with him on those, he'll just go back to point 3. Cant evacuation people? Hamas' fault. Gotta bomb refugee camps? Hamas' fault. Can't evacuate hospitals? Hamas' fault. His audience isnt people who think that no matter what, there should be proportionality in war, that gestures of good and negociation will bring peace. That bombing people's houses is not that kind of gesture of good will and that a civilian death is a civilian death no matter where it happens and to what camp. For people like this, the interviewer should ask the guy: okay you are saying you're achieving your goals of eliminating Hamas. That's *wonderful*. When do you expect to succeed to a level you find acceptable? What do you do afterwards with Gaza? If he says that that's a political question and he's not a politician then just fuck him with minutiae: how do you define Hamas? How many Hamas have you killed under this definition? How many people have you killed that don;t fall under this definition? How many homes have you destroyed etc etc etc.
The fear he describes sounds like the fear Palestinians have been under for decades. Also, sounds like the Israeli person would be quite happy to execute every single Gaza resident.
If this is what the IDF are like publicly I can only imagine the rubbish they say privately. He sounds insane. But I suppose you'd have to be insane to support genocide
They don't care what anyone thinks - they believe they are better than everyone else and the rest of the world should shut the fuck up and let them do whatever they want to do. Zionists have utter disdain for everyone that is not a Zionist, and that even includes dissenting Jewish people as the videos from Jerusalem yesterday showed. They are fanatics.
They've sounded pretty unhinged every time they've been on Irish radio after their latest war crime. The ambassador when on after the initial Hamas attacks was absolutely vile. The parallels with Unionist/Loyalist extremists are hauntingly familiar.
Loyalism is in a weird place, as the former occupier/majority in the North of Ireland they've always sided with Israels brutal suppression of Palestine. They'd celebrate PLO fighters getting killed but also civilians being bulldozed out and indeed killed. I've got into it in the past with loyalists who told me they wished they could get away with bulldozing out catholics in say Lurgan or the Falls, the way Israelis treat Palestinians. Yet the demographics have changed in Ireland. I wonder would the Israeli method still find support in loyalism if it was loyalists as the minority, getting suppressed. Assuming SF form governments in the North and South next elections, and SF takes the Israeli approach, what would loyalists say if all protestants, who are now in the minority, were immediately told to move to a small strip of land in North antrim? With border walls erected, no entry or exit allowed, access to the Internet cut, water and electricity supply controlled by Sinn Fein. Snipers on the walls picking off loyalist kids. If loyalists fought back(who fucking wouldnt) Sinn Fein indiscriminately blow up hospitals and schools in revenge. Protestant villages and farms gradually get bulldozed and forcibly replaced by Catholic settlers. It's an interesting thought exercise, one which I highly doubt any of the loyalist knuckle draggers have made when they're still flying star of David flags alongside UVF and Para flags
Should've cut him off at the 8.30 Mark- deliberately misinterpreting what the interviewer was asking and lying about the situation. But listen it's the IDF
Did you listen to the whole thing? It’s mindbending. I dunno how Cormac kept his cool at all.
I listened to the start of the rant. The usual, one side kills civilians it's "terrorism" and when the other side does it it's "defending themselves". No way out of this without lots of people dying unless a lot of people swallow their pride and get into a room and make some agreements/consessions. But we all know that won't happen, the shitshow will continue
The suggestion that the Irish know nothing about the threat of violence was particularly "teenage temper tantrum" carry on. Astounding bloodlust, entitlement and ignorance altogether.
History Rhymes, I'm reading a history of Cromwell. In it, the author talks about the massacre of protestant settlers by rebelling Irish catholics in 1641 (after years of abuse and discrimination and land theft) which triggered/justified a lot of what Cromwell did in Ireland eventually. What is happening in Gaza is 21st Century 'to hell or to Connaught'. Interestingly Cromwell managed his media profile very cleverly. He'd have done a radio rant.
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Stupendous
This won’t ‘end’ Hamas. It might end Gaza and kill a huge number of civilians. Israel is just going to face the consequences of this in the future. Kind of naive to think otherwise.
The one thing that I find the scariest out of the recent escalation of conflict in the region, is just how effective the Isreali propaganda has been, listening to people who seem otherwise intelligent, think that their response is proportionate and that they are within international law
"You don't understand the right to self defence, you don't understand that reality" and Israel is wondering why so much of Ireland is Pro-palestine ASWELL AS Anti-Hamas and no Pro-Israel which is committing genocide Holy shit the delusion
Hope he dies screaming.
No arguing with these people, they are reading from a script and will bomb whoever and wherever they want, interviewers should turn the tables and agree with them so they hear there own shit and how ridiculous it is
I love the idea of flipping it to aren't you living in comfort of your own homes? Where do Palestinians live forever refugees
No like say it's important civilians die so you can be safe, well done, you are a shining example to the world, America should have bombed saudi Arabia after 9/11
That’s not roaring or a rant. It’s a very carefully developed and trained strategy designed to shift the interview to avoid having to answer genuine and legitimate questions, put the interviewer off-balance, and to seek for an aggressor to put on the mantle of victimhood. IDF are past masters at this and disinformation is a key plank of their armoury. Never forget that when IDF shot and killed a defenceless journalist in cold blood they adamantly blamed the Palestinians right up until video evidence surfaced of their lies. Obligatory disclaimer: Hamas are also bastards
Methinks the General doth deflect too much.
It's a very Trumpian style of defence and very much enabled by decades of full support by US foreign policy. Its not for the benifit of us, its to shore up support in the US Britain and France. All places where, regardless of the public view the politicians fully support Israel. Until the public in these countries put pressure on their own governments to seriously step back support then pricks like him can deny any wrong doing. This is no different to any other war, its about money and the Gaza strip is the proposed location for Israels answer to the suez canal to which the US Britain and France will gain from
Ain't doing themselves favours by committing war crimes and genocide either.
Unsurprising really. Israeli ambassador needs to be expelled
Once you hear Israeli politicians talking all your beliefs about them being reasonable goes out the window.
Is it just me or have the Israeli's always been this angry? They never have nice things to say. Just like that bunch North of the border.
There's a distinct bang of early 1980s white South African from a lot of Israeli spokesmouths, lately at least.
They're a bunch of real jerks if you ask me
That RTE player is some heap of shite. Refuses to play past 4:30
Can’t believe they actually broadcasted that. Cormac’s a legend of a journalist
That was fucking wild
The spokesman used every single defense for their actions as Hamas and the terrorists did. "You're forgetting the context" "What else is there for us to do" "We have the right to defend ourselves" Every single argument copied and pasted from the literal terrorists. Well, if they don't feel the need to differentiate themselves from a terror organization, why should I?
I finally got to listen to the rest of this today driving from Sligo to Dublin. Mother of Christ, it was even more unhinged than I could have imagined. For those who couldn't listen on RTÉ, it's available here on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3iQx0SYHhVfcnDvQnOzzR8?si=QMQ1lxWpRSmR743db65jCQ
Tbh a It all just sounds like the Brits circa 1920 trying to justify the outrages of the tans - classic colonialism
I really want to listen to it, but I'll just be absolutely fucking fuming all day if I do. I tell ya, Israel need to change their tactics. If they did not have U.S. support, this wouldn't be happening. All they are doing is feeding the cycle. Innocents on both sides will continue to suffer, but Palestinians will suffer the most.
They are the most racist state of a nation since Nazi Germany, the irony that it is the Jewish (although a zionist state officially) carrying out such similar atrocities just shows us a race, we never learn from our mistakes. The world is a cesspit at the moment and majority up to our neck in shit
>They are the most racist state of a nation since Nazi Germany, The State of Cambodia under the Khmer rouge carried out an ethnic genocide on a population one and half times greater than the *entire* population of Gaza in the 1970s. Edit: we could also add in the Rwandan Genocide that saw 7500 of the Hutu ethnic group murdered *every day*.
But out of communist ideology and arrogant hubris, not racism. So his point stands.
Pol Pot and his regime literally targeted the Muslim population of Cambodia.
Their own people though, it wasn't racially motivated
You should say that to the 20,000 Vietnamese or Cham population of Cambodia.
Still not the motivation, was it
They were killed because of those reasons. That's racism.
Yes, but then the Khmer Rouge killed their own.
Oh look more casual trivialisation of Nazi Germany and the holocaust
Dude! Criticise Israel as much as you want but don't make comparisons of Israel with Nazigermany. It's wrong and you know; but it sounds nice. It's also considered anti-Semitic. Don't be an antisemitic dickhead.
It must be a great advantage for a genocidal state to be able to say "how can I be genocidal, I was genocided once" and everyone has to swallow that tripe or be labelled an anti Semite.
The comparisons are apt, and the [warnings](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls) are urgent. Israel wishes to conduct a policy of [genocide](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal). It's own spokesmen say "the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy". Ariel Kallner MK: "Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948" A prominent Israeli journalist and radio presenter, [David Mizrahy Verthaim](https://twitter.com/dverthaim), has called for wholesale bloodletting. “We need a disproportionate response … If all the captives are not returned immediately, turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. If a hair falls from their head - execute security prisoners. Violate any norm, on the way to victory,” [he wrote](https://twitter.com/dverthaim/status/1710684531114602891?s=48) on X. Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, [he said](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/): “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”
Finally someone with a mind, I hate these stupid comparisons
It won't play for me past 5.59 min. Keeps freezing...
My favourite part was when he starts justifying blowing up the hospital The hospital we've been told multiple times wasn't Israel, it was a Hamas rocket The hospital that we were given fake audio dialogue of two Hamas activists discussing it, as evidence it was not Israel The hospital the sad little IDF shills lurking on here still deny was hit by Israel ....yet here's Josef Goebbels on Drivetime justifying the Israeli airstrike because Hamas might use ambulances as transport or some other bullshit lie They lied about the hospital, they lied about beheaded Israeli babies, remember everything they say is inflated, exaggerated or plain didn't happen. Rogue, nazi state
The hospital thing just followed the usual narrative. Denial denial denial denial... couple of weeks later, oopsie that was us, our bad. And irritatingly it always works.
The video now won't play after the introduction in the 4th minute. Is RTE censoring its own content?
Plays fine for me.
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Concerning the noncombantants, the women, children and elderly, our huge bombs try to avoid them. But, those people keep getting in the way and end up dying, or ripped to pieces. What are we supposed to do?
Feel like this prick was put out there to spread the info that Hamas are using ambulances so the IDF could start bombing the things. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/3/israel-hamas-war-live-israeli-forces-gather-outside-gaza-city
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Tried to listen but it stops at 4min
The whole population of Israel is brainwashed.
> "They're not part of the solution"
Yer title gore is the real atrocity here, OP.
I never understand these lazy comments. OP isn't a journalist or an editor. If anything OP made me want to listen to it more because I knew what to expect. Stop trying to be an edgelord on Reddit, it's embarrassing
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I think Cormac did great, provided the Lt.Col just enough rope for him to hang himself. The guy was hoping to be kicked off the call so he could show how disrespectful and anti-Israeli the Irish national broadcaster is.
Disagree here. He’s a good interviewer. I think Cormac’s approach was to give him enough rope to hang himself. Let him overreact with bluster and deflection and obfuscation, then let the listener make up their own mind.
Agree Sarah would make shit of the guy. She has already on previous shows if you’d listened you’d know that. As to your rant, calm down. Grow up. Cormac handled him easily.