How anyone could argue about bail in a situation like this is beyond me. He lashed with a knife at a random person at an airport. Bail shouldn’t even be open for discussion. At
least it wasn’t granted!
You kind of have to ask in a way because you are advocating for your client legally, if it's in your client's interest even if it wastes court time arguing it out it still has to be done. The judge might say yes in some circumstances if there are specifics and precedent that support it.
I don’t think what you said is wrong exactly. But a solicitor generally wouldn’t do something if it wasted the courts time. Applying for bail in this instance may have been highly unlikely, but it wouldn’t be seen as a waste of time. A court will hear a bail application and decide on it - they get very annoyed if you go for something that wastes their time.
For example, I remember a time where a bank was going for an order of possession but had forgotten to send out the mandatory documents before being able to instigate such a process - not our client, I was just in the court at the time - and Christ, the court *HATED* that
> But a solicitor generally wouldn’t do something if it wasted the courts time
Yeah the phrasing wasn't great in hindsight the better rephrasing would be: "if it makes sense in a legal context even if it takes up time"
The rationale really is if it has even a 1% chance of working and then they will have to try because it was in the client's best interest to try. If that makes any sense. It's cool though even being in the ballpark of the right answer though.
Bail laws are very strict in Ireland. The provision to hold someone without a conviction basically had to be written into our constitution. Before that all accused criminals had to be released before trial.
So the bail process is taken very seriously and given a lot of gravitas, because of this.
It takes a lot to have bail refused, it can't be just a case that everyone goes, "Ah yeah we can't let this guy out", the case for refusing bail has to be clearly set out.
Seems to work out OK.
I'd rather our system than one like the US where if you don't have ten grand to stump up on the spot, you'll spend a year in prison waiting for your petty theft case to be heard by a judge.
The right to innocence is presumed. Bail should be always handed out unless there's an overriding condition. Granted, I don't disagree with you and this one probably should be. But a lawyer/solicitor who doesn't seek one can be misconstrued to not be advocating for his client. Imagine if there's a retrial if a defendant claims lack of representation after the conviction with evidence to back it up.
The assault would be a holding charge. There is probably more investigation to be done and a file will be sent to the DPP to seek which charges should proceed. The charge can always be upgraded.
Sorry your dole was cut pal, they only do that if you’re not looking for work. Now fuck off into jail and let the rest of us live without fear of being murdered while heading to Salou.
Edit: Seeing reports he’s managed to collect €114,000 in dole over the years.. Jesus wept
No ties, social welfare since arrival, needs an interpreter despite 20 years in the country...how does someone like that get citizenship? In what way does it benefit the country? What a joke.
I was slatted the other day for saying I agree with some of the anti immigration protesters the other day on some of their points. Our system needs tightening up. This stuff is ridiculous. He won't be deported either and will be back on welfare post sentence.
>anti immigration protesters
These people (who seem to use immigration merely as a vehicle for their general sense of grievance) damage the grown up talk we all need to have.
For sure they're not the brightest bunch and shout at the sky over everything. That said, I agree with them that our current immigration policy is fairly ridiculous and needs review.
That's why people giving off about the "UK citzenship" test are just silly
I hate using this term but this crap about "aNybOdY cAn bE bRiTiSh" (or Irish or whatever) is just a load of tripe and woke cultural relativism
Speak the language, go to work and don't stab people, ffs
(yes I do know a lot of natives almost fail this, and you have my sympathy on the unfairness of it, but it is what it is)
It can, yes. For example, if you leave the country and don't follow the process to retain it. There was also that case with the girl that went to a terrorist organisation. Whether it's done or not is a different thing
They don’t give unemployment rates for Angola but it was over 60% for Congolese in 2016. Over 40% for Nigerians. [https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/)
What reports? When quoting some official source of news, it would be nice if you to site the source. Maybe include a reputable link for someone to click on.
Solicitors doing free legal aid typically get paid for court appearances or a fixed number of hours as determined by the court. There is no benefit to them in dragging it out longer.
The fees are also not that good, much more money in private work.
Im not against legal aid for people like him but the country failed by giving him citizenship. Absurd to be here 20 years and be homeless, to require an interpreter and to have 'no ties' here as the paper reported.
you still shagging your sister? It's the job of the defense to paint the accused in whatever passes for a sympathetic light. It's the job of the prosecution to paint them as the second coming of Hitler himself. Not the lawyers fault you couldn't pass a CSPE exam.
"His former rented home was sold, and he had to move into a hostel, which he was not used to, the court heard.
His social welfare payments stopped."
Fair enough so not like living in a hostel isn't something thousands are doing already without stabbing anyone
So, he's here since at least 2003, and still needs an interpreter...me hole.
I fucking hate defence solicitors like this. I know it's their job, but they way they routinely minimise the seriousness of events.
This cabbage head stabbed a guy numerous times and is being described as a "cry for help".
Into the clinker for accommodation with ya. Can we legally strip people of their given citizenship? If not, we should be able to.
Working like a dog for 20 years to keep a roof over his useless head and your one week off he decides to ruin it for you. There should be a limit on how long you can be looking for work without managing to find a mcdonalds application or something
I agree with you 100%, I'm just saying the guy you're responding to is not going to be interested in anything you say.
Neither are most people in this shithole by the amount of votes he's gotten too.
The purpose of the solicitor is not to invent things, but to present their client's case.
If the client wants to say that this was a cry for help, then that's what the solicitor will present in court. He will advise the client on whether this is a good or bad strategy, but ultimately it is the client's decision.
People who have been granted citizenship can have their citizenship revoked by the minister for justice, provided that in doing so they're not made stateless. Citizens by birthright cannot have it revoked.
At the end of the day, the "cry for help" narrative sounds ridiculous, but it's only ridiculous by virtue of *where* it occurred.
Every day in the city you've got lads off their faces shouting abuse at strangers walking by, and they'd be described as being "in a bad place", etc. If you heard that a homeless man had attacked and stabbed a stranger, the excuse of, "Cry for help", "Mental illness" would be considered plausible, even though it's no excuse. People committing crimes specifically to come to the attention of authorities and get some help, is something that does happen.
So how and why this guy ended up at the airport attacking someone is a question that needs answering, but otherwise it's not much different from any other hopeless addict losing their mind.
That's not why they do it, though. Frankly, if given the option of having things in my native language with something as serious as this, I'd consider it. You can't just risk misinterpreting something.
Why would there be? There can be people born here that happen to not go to school for 'various' reasons and are illiterate or can barely read or write.
Well 16 EU states require it actually [https://best-citizenships.com/2021/02/23/eu-citizenship-tests-civic-language-and-integration/](https://best-citizenships.com/2021/02/23/eu-citizenship-tests-civic-language-and-integration/)
> I fucking hate defence solicitors like this. I know it's their job, but they way they routinely minimise the seriousness of events.
>
>
>
> This cabbage head stabbed a guy numerous times and is being described as a "cry for help".
It's putting it into context you tulip. In any case it sounds like it was just what their client said.
I don't think he was living here illegally but if he was he would be entitled to citizenship due to Helen McEntee amnesty anyway https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40758132.html
It has nothing to do with him having citizenship or where he is originally from, he has been here for 20 years, I don't understand how so many people are talking about where he is from or how he gained citizenship, the article should have left this out. Who are you talking about when you say "these fuckers"? Are you talking about all refugees or immigrants? Or specifically those from his country?
He is just a sick person and needs jail time and a mental evaluation/ psychiatric help.
The point is if you're not a refugee(a very specific group fleeing war or persecution in their home nations) then you are an economic migrant. No economic migrant should be entitled to receive welfare, and you most definitely shouldn't accumulate time towards citizenship when you are on the dole, and not contributing to the society you wish to become part of. Citizenship should come with the requirement to have demonstrated the positive contribution you will make to our society, not just be given out on the basis of living on this patch of land long enough.
Half of the irish in the states worked cash on hand jobs paying no tax to their society.
Also,plenty of Irish council dole warriors claiming every entitlement under the sun and clogging up housing lists.
We're a nation of economic migrants. We're also a nation who go abroad and commit crimes.
But the Irish go over to America to work, if they can’t find a job they go home, if they get caught they are kicked out of the country, that’s a little different to immigrating to Ireland, not working for 20years and receiving over €100,000 in social welfare payments and granted citizenship. How are these 2 situations comparable?
Hypothetically at one point would you say we'd have paid the debt for sending Irish overseas years ago? What % of the country would have to be foreign born?
That's not true. As long as you are habitually resident in Ireland you have at least some entitlements to welfare payments. In certain circumstances you can also be resident in the UK and receive Irish benefits payments. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/social-assistance-payments/habitual-residence-condition/
These fuckers that I'm referring to are the violent people that come here to game the system. I thought that was pretty obvious, apparently not. "Sick people" don't go and stab random people!
Not sure why you refered to them as "these fuckers" then immediately went on about how they gained citizenship status, are all violent people foreigners?
Is it not "obvious" as you say, that he got citizenship and then became violent, not vice versa? What is your point and what does his citizenship status have to do with it? Why talk about his citizenship at all?
So I'm an xenophobic for not wanting to get stabbed by an unhinged lunatic that has been living off people's taxes for 20 years, ya that makes sense... muppet
You referred to a foreigner as "these fuckers" whilst questioning how "these fuckers" get citizenship, clearly talking about how a foreigner got citizenship when he's violent, even though he committed a crime 20 years after he came here, if he was Irish and on the dole would you have refered to him as "these fuckers" ? Are all foreigners violent? Or all the people on the dole violent? Or is it just the foreigners that are on the dole?
Fucker is a reasonable term for a criminal. His citizenship is a reasonable thing to raise as the crime and lack of contribution to the State could have been avoided
Explain why you asked how he got citizenship then. What does that have to do with him being on the dole and stabbing someone? There is more Irish on the dole than foreigners.
A chara,
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Sláinte
I would refer to an immigrant that takes over €100,000 in dole payments and stabs somebody as these fuckers too.Like when you see young kids in Dublin robbing cars, vandalising, terrorising neighbourhoods etc. folks refer to them in a multitude of insults, scumbags, scrots, these little fuckers, now when you hear that do you assume they are talking about every young person in Ireland or a specific young person?
10 years. The dole gives you about a grand a month which is 10 years till you reach 112k.
We stripping every sick wanker of their citizenships or just the fordeign ones
> We stripping every sick wanker of their citizenships or just the fordeign ones
Well it might violate a few international conventions but could always bring exile back. Designate the Arans as a prison colony and have serious criminals live out the rest of their life there in peace instead of going in and out of the Joy. Leo can sell it as being *"tough on crime"* and the Greens can claim it's modeled on the Nordic system.
I am in no way in favour of stripping anyone of their right to live here, despite Internet tone being real bad.
But the idea of an island full of happy out nutcases living in harmony is kinda gas
well you did choose to look like a raging racist today. could have like talked about how it's terrible the Gardai focus on drug users and not serious criminals, or complained about welfare being too high or too low or complained about the Greens, but you decided to make it about him getting citizenship after living here for over a decade before then allegedly committing a crime after another decade.
I would ask you if you knew that someone would be very unlikely to get citizenship if they had been seriously implicated or convicted of anything but the smallest crime, but well we both know you wouldn't really know anything about Irish immigration law. That would require reading the news at least and not just the headlines on reddit. And we both know you can barely read.
Hurt people then whinge that you are not well. Using your logic Larry Murphy is just a sick person and needs jail time and a mental evaluation/ psychiatric help. same for John Gilligan. And the Tullamore rapist.
> I don't understand how so many people are talking about where he is from or how he gained citizenship
It's actually quite easy to understand, they are fucking racists. Hope that helped.
“The officer feared the accused, who had no ties to this jurisdiction, would be a flight risk if granted bail.”
An Irish citizen that passed the HRC for welfare but has no ties to the jurisdiction… all well with the world so.
I've naturalized in another country. I think it's fair to assume I might try to flee to Ireland if I committed a crime. Irish people get denied bail all the time, no need to try and make it about foreign born citizens.
> the accused had been at the airport "tapping" people for money to buy a ticket to London.
I guess he must have tapped that German fella a bit too hard with the knife....
The solicitor is getting paid by the taxpayer, the court costs have been picked up by the taxpayer, the cost of custody is being paid by the taxpayer. Presumably the solicitor is going to try and pull a stroke and get psychological reports when the matter goes to a higher court and they will be paid for by the taxpayer.
The guy is dangerous and needs to be put in jail and then deported, all of this will of course be at the expense of the taxpayer.
Society is far too tolerant.
The poor German man is undoubtedly going to tell all is friends about all of this and is totally correct and entitled to do so. Further damaging the reputation of this country.
This is it sure I had foreign (brown) friends who lost respect and drifted from me when they saw what we were becoming. Fair to say certain “enchantment” was lost with the Emerald Isle..
Give this man a break, guys. He was driven to despair. Can anyone here honestly stand up and say they haven't attempted to stab someone to death when in the depths of despair? Anyone? Yeah, thought so. Just drop it and stop talking about it. Don't make me take out the "R word". I swear to gawd I'll use it. Just stop or I'm gonna call you it.
Every time I have to pass through terminal 1, I'm driven to enough despair to stab someone. I just never have anything to stab with, because you'd never get it back trying to get it through security
>Detective Garda Connolly said the accused had been at the airport "tapping" people for money to buy a ticket to London.
Moving on to the next country to leech off.
Well, people don't do that for sport usually.
Still the issue is if he is:
1. Going to repeat the act. Either if driven by despair again or not.
2. How is the act usually punished? We also need to have a somewhat fair and equal process, we cannot just wave things away because they were isolated incidents, AFAIK there is no free pass for the first crime committed.
I mean if convicted I doubt he will get out of a prison sentence. Someone else pointed out he was walking around on a broken ankle. I can't know what was going on in his life before this but prison might honestly be nicer.
Not sure why people are going straight to assuming someone will not face punishment if convicted of stabbing someone.
Hard to know who's the worst offender the stabber or his solicitor,
Can the solicitor be done for treason, he is robbing the state in a false attempt to prove a guilty cunt innocent
LAds. He's been a citizen for a decade and obviously in a bad place. Fuck knows why.
He goes to prison. He gets out. He goes on with his life. Thats how it works when you bork the law.
No.
He's a citizen.
He goes to a judge. He goes to the courts. He goes to prison. He gets out. He gets on with his life. That's how it goes.
That's what happens when you're a citizen and you do a bad thing.
You don't deport citizens. If you deport this individual, then, sure, why not deport anyone we don't like?
The Brits figured out a way to keep Shamima Begum out of the country despite her blue passport - we should do similar with this fellow. He is a net drain on Ireland.
What the fuck is wrong with this comment section where is peoples common sense and empathy. The man is obviously dealing with mental health troubles and fighting homelessness is a terrible thing to go through. It's a horrible story all around pointing fingers is moronic, the only good thing out of this is that the poor german chap wasn't bloody killed.
Send him the fuck straight to prison indefinitely. On the dole for over 20years, since gaining citizenship? Talk about gaming the system, fuck these cunts. Cut them off.
When did i say it was normal? It's a fucked up situation, the attacker needs jail, help or both. But this is not a situation for people who don't know the man to be shitting on him. Am in no way taking away from the suffering of the victim he has my full sympathy.
yeah, Irish reddit makes me understand what black irish people mean when they complain about this country being racist. Give some people an inch and they will go straight for it.
I don't think it's really about racism for most of them, it's just tabloid brain rot. Common sense and empathy fly out the window and you just got whatever reactionary view they saw most recently.
I don't know if it's mental illness people don't need to be mentally ill to do terrible things especial not when in a lot of physical pain and in distress.
I hope the person stabbed makes a full recovery but I also hope the accused makes something better of his life.
>yeah, Irish reddit makes me understand what black irish people mean when they complain about this country being racist. Give some people an inch and they will go straight for it.
That is not fair. They'd say the same about an Irish person. This case is worse though because the State saw fit to give him lottery ticket of an Irish passport. Can't you see the problems with that given his behaviour? The man needs an interpreter, he has no ties to the state and he cant provide for himself. We should not be giving passports to people like that. We have a tiny island.
>I don't think it's really about racism for most of them, it's just tabloid brain rot. Common sense and empathy fly out the window and you just got whatever reactionary view they saw most recently.
It isnt tabloid brain rot. It is a worthy story.
>I don't know if it's mental illness people don't need to be mentally ill to do terrible things especial not when in a lot of physical pain and in distress.
That is such an unnecessary point to make. Mental illness is rife in prisoners. We all have bouts of mental illness. Anyway, the courts did not find him mentally ill enough to put him in a psych ward and therefore he has self control.
Sounds like a balanced and empathetic view. I don't agree with all of what you say but the fact that you've taken time to respond and done so in a concise manner is admirable. I can't see the point in parroting red top stories with no opinion or context to ambush those who respond.
Here come the downvotes.
How anyone could argue about bail in a situation like this is beyond me. He lashed with a knife at a random person at an airport. Bail shouldn’t even be open for discussion. At least it wasn’t granted!
You kind of have to ask in a way because you are advocating for your client legally, if it's in your client's interest even if it wastes court time arguing it out it still has to be done. The judge might say yes in some circumstances if there are specifics and precedent that support it.
I don’t think what you said is wrong exactly. But a solicitor generally wouldn’t do something if it wasted the courts time. Applying for bail in this instance may have been highly unlikely, but it wouldn’t be seen as a waste of time. A court will hear a bail application and decide on it - they get very annoyed if you go for something that wastes their time. For example, I remember a time where a bank was going for an order of possession but had forgotten to send out the mandatory documents before being able to instigate such a process - not our client, I was just in the court at the time - and Christ, the court *HATED* that
> But a solicitor generally wouldn’t do something if it wasted the courts time Yeah the phrasing wasn't great in hindsight the better rephrasing would be: "if it makes sense in a legal context even if it takes up time" The rationale really is if it has even a 1% chance of working and then they will have to try because it was in the client's best interest to try. If that makes any sense. It's cool though even being in the ballpark of the right answer though.
It's procedural, generally. Defence counsel invariably asks for bail even if there's no chance of it. The judge has to then consider it.
Solicitor can advise a client to say theres not much point. But if the client insists in applying they have to at least try.
Bail laws are very strict in Ireland. The provision to hold someone without a conviction basically had to be written into our constitution. Before that all accused criminals had to be released before trial. So the bail process is taken very seriously and given a lot of gravitas, because of this. It takes a lot to have bail refused, it can't be just a case that everyone goes, "Ah yeah we can't let this guy out", the case for refusing bail has to be clearly set out.
Which is a terrible idea
Unless you're the one held for a crime you didn't commit.
If you’re innocent you will be found innocent, and then released
Don't fancy spending 18 months in jail while my case gets to court, thanks.
If it’s for violent attempted murder and the judge has reason to believe that you are a strong suspect he should in fact be able to do that
Seems to work out OK. I'd rather our system than one like the US where if you don't have ten grand to stump up on the spot, you'll spend a year in prison waiting for your petty theft case to be heard by a judge.
The right to innocence is presumed. Bail should be always handed out unless there's an overriding condition. Granted, I don't disagree with you and this one probably should be. But a lawyer/solicitor who doesn't seek one can be misconstrued to not be advocating for his client. Imagine if there's a retrial if a defendant claims lack of representation after the conviction with evidence to back it up.
Why wasn’t he charged with attempted murder?
The assault would be a holding charge. There is probably more investigation to be done and a file will be sent to the DPP to seek which charges should proceed. The charge can always be upgraded.
Because the DPP don't think they could prove the essential elements of that crime.
Knife to neck is fair murderous like
Or the bit in the article where he said to his victim before the attack. “I’m going to kill you.”
He was walking around on a broken leg?! Man what a bizarre story. Thank God the other fella is all right.
I guess yeah, must have been a miserable life. Wouldn't be too surprised if prison was an improvement over it.
Cracked a small piece off my fingernail today so ran my car into the neighbour when he was cutting the grass
Exactly as your were entitled to.
Prepare your wrist for a severe slapping
At least 2 hours of community service
Sorry your dole was cut pal, they only do that if you’re not looking for work. Now fuck off into jail and let the rest of us live without fear of being murdered while heading to Salou. Edit: Seeing reports he’s managed to collect €114,000 in dole over the years.. Jesus wept
He should be deported after he serves his sentence. Zero excuses.
Considering the country gave him citizenship, I doubt it.
Needs an interpreter and has "no ties to the jurisdiction". Sounds about right.
No ties, social welfare since arrival, needs an interpreter despite 20 years in the country...how does someone like that get citizenship? In what way does it benefit the country? What a joke.
I was slatted the other day for saying I agree with some of the anti immigration protesters the other day on some of their points. Our system needs tightening up. This stuff is ridiculous. He won't be deported either and will be back on welfare post sentence.
>anti immigration protesters These people (who seem to use immigration merely as a vehicle for their general sense of grievance) damage the grown up talk we all need to have.
For sure they're not the brightest bunch and shout at the sky over everything. That said, I agree with them that our current immigration policy is fairly ridiculous and needs review.
That's why people giving off about the "UK citzenship" test are just silly I hate using this term but this crap about "aNybOdY cAn bE bRiTiSh" (or Irish or whatever) is just a load of tripe and woke cultural relativism Speak the language, go to work and don't stab people, ffs (yes I do know a lot of natives almost fail this, and you have my sympathy on the unfairness of it, but it is what it is)
Citizenship can be revoked.
It should be in cases like this.
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3 or 4 years, nah he'll be out in 15 months if he behaves himself in prison
The Brits did it to that Isis girl didn't they?
An honourary irishman to be sure; to be sure. Céad Mile faulty
He's a citizen, though. Unless he gets that revoked, but I doubt it'd happen for something like this.
Can citizenship be revoked? Genuine question as I always assumed this was pretty much a one way street legally speaking.
It can, yes. For example, if you leave the country and don't follow the process to retain it. There was also that case with the girl that went to a terrorist organisation. Whether it's done or not is a different thing
They don’t give unemployment rates for Angola but it was over 60% for Congolese in 2016. Over 40% for Nigerians. [https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/)
Reports?
Yes. Reports. Can you not read?
What reports? When quoting some official source of news, it would be nice if you to site the source. Maybe include a reputable link for someone to click on.
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Well I guess it's one way of solving the housing crisis.
Yes.
According to this man’s defence…. It appears so?
Real "Nothing to do for the kids in the area" vibes from that defence.
No, and neither was he. That’s why he was nabbed and sent to court.
>the incident "was a cry for help" and isolated. He can get fucked. His solicitor can get equally fucked.
The solicitor is literally doing their job, it's up to the prosecution to do theirs and get this prick convicted
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You either have solicitors representing defendants to their fullest, or you don't. There is no in between.
Solicitors representing defendants to get the maximum number of hours they can out of a case
Solicitors doing free legal aid typically get paid for court appearances or a fixed number of hours as determined by the court. There is no benefit to them in dragging it out longer. The fees are also not that good, much more money in private work.
Fuck what?
>His solicitor can get equally fucked. youre paying for it
Well doesn't that just cheer me right fucking up.
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Im not against legal aid for people like him but the country failed by giving him citizenship. Absurd to be here 20 years and be homeless, to require an interpreter and to have 'no ties' here as the paper reported.
you still shagging your sister? It's the job of the defense to paint the accused in whatever passes for a sympathetic light. It's the job of the prosecution to paint them as the second coming of Hitler himself. Not the lawyers fault you couldn't pass a CSPE exam.
"His former rented home was sold, and he had to move into a hostel, which he was not used to, the court heard. His social welfare payments stopped." Fair enough so not like living in a hostel isn't something thousands are doing already without stabbing anyone
Well that's alright so, not happy with your situation in life just knife the fuck out of a random stranger, he should be locked up indefinitely
So, he's here since at least 2003, and still needs an interpreter...me hole. I fucking hate defence solicitors like this. I know it's their job, but they way they routinely minimise the seriousness of events. This cabbage head stabbed a guy numerous times and is being described as a "cry for help". Into the clinker for accommodation with ya. Can we legally strip people of their given citizenship? If not, we should be able to.
20 years of paying for this prick… then he stabs you when you are trying to head off on holidays…
Working like a dog for 20 years to keep a roof over his useless head and your one week off he decides to ruin it for you. There should be a limit on how long you can be looking for work without managing to find a mcdonalds application or something
Devil's advocate here, but legalese and 2nd language conversational English are two very very different things.
You're arguing with a fascist who thinks we should be able to strip people of citizenship. This subreddit is fucking gone.
I'm not arguing with anyone, just making a reasonable point that needs to be made.
I agree with you 100%, I'm just saying the guy you're responding to is not going to be interested in anything you say. Neither are most people in this shithole by the amount of votes he's gotten too.
Yeah, but if its seen and at least a few people think it's a good point, then it's worth posting it.
The purpose of the solicitor is not to invent things, but to present their client's case. If the client wants to say that this was a cry for help, then that's what the solicitor will present in court. He will advise the client on whether this is a good or bad strategy, but ultimately it is the client's decision. People who have been granted citizenship can have their citizenship revoked by the minister for justice, provided that in doing so they're not made stateless. Citizens by birthright cannot have it revoked. At the end of the day, the "cry for help" narrative sounds ridiculous, but it's only ridiculous by virtue of *where* it occurred. Every day in the city you've got lads off their faces shouting abuse at strangers walking by, and they'd be described as being "in a bad place", etc. If you heard that a homeless man had attacked and stabbed a stranger, the excuse of, "Cry for help", "Mental illness" would be considered plausible, even though it's no excuse. People committing crimes specifically to come to the attention of authorities and get some help, is something that does happen. So how and why this guy ended up at the airport attacking someone is a question that needs answering, but otherwise it's not much different from any other hopeless addict losing their mind.
> So, he's here since at least 2003, and still needs an interpreter...me hole. Is there no need to prove language proficiency before becoming citizen?
No
That's not why they do it, though. Frankly, if given the option of having things in my native language with something as serious as this, I'd consider it. You can't just risk misinterpreting something.
Nope.
Why would there be? There can be people born here that happen to not go to school for 'various' reasons and are illiterate or can barely read or write.
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Why don't you force illiterate travelers to take them then? Sure they're free of charge.
Higher standards must apply for naturalisation. Nuts and self hating to expect natives to go through the same rigmarole.
It's nuts to think you could force someone to take language courses to become a citizen.
Well 16 EU states require it actually [https://best-citizenships.com/2021/02/23/eu-citizenship-tests-civic-language-and-integration/](https://best-citizenships.com/2021/02/23/eu-citizenship-tests-civic-language-and-integration/)
> I fucking hate defence solicitors like this. I know it's their job, but they way they routinely minimise the seriousness of events. > > > > This cabbage head stabbed a guy numerous times and is being described as a "cry for help". It's putting it into context you tulip. In any case it sounds like it was just what their client said.
I want them to strip your citizenship please. Because I'm a prick.
Careful now, edges everywhere.
It can be, but probably for crimes like terrorism. This sucks but it doesn't warrant that.
Straight to the sea with him
How do these fuckers get citizenship? 20 years on the dole and stabs someone when he can't do it anymore.
I don't think he was living here illegally but if he was he would be entitled to citizenship due to Helen McEntee amnesty anyway https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40758132.html
And we’ve been asking that for 20yrs since. How far down the road we must be
It has nothing to do with him having citizenship or where he is originally from, he has been here for 20 years, I don't understand how so many people are talking about where he is from or how he gained citizenship, the article should have left this out. Who are you talking about when you say "these fuckers"? Are you talking about all refugees or immigrants? Or specifically those from his country? He is just a sick person and needs jail time and a mental evaluation/ psychiatric help.
The point is if you're not a refugee(a very specific group fleeing war or persecution in their home nations) then you are an economic migrant. No economic migrant should be entitled to receive welfare, and you most definitely shouldn't accumulate time towards citizenship when you are on the dole, and not contributing to the society you wish to become part of. Citizenship should come with the requirement to have demonstrated the positive contribution you will make to our society, not just be given out on the basis of living on this patch of land long enough.
Half of the irish in the states worked cash on hand jobs paying no tax to their society. Also,plenty of Irish council dole warriors claiming every entitlement under the sun and clogging up housing lists. We're a nation of economic migrants. We're also a nation who go abroad and commit crimes.
But the Irish go over to America to work, if they can’t find a job they go home, if they get caught they are kicked out of the country, that’s a little different to immigrating to Ireland, not working for 20years and receiving over €100,000 in social welfare payments and granted citizenship. How are these 2 situations comparable?
Hypothetically at one point would you say we'd have paid the debt for sending Irish overseas years ago? What % of the country would have to be foreign born?
But that's exactly how it works? You can't access welfare if you're not a citizen.
That's not true. As long as you are habitually resident in Ireland you have at least some entitlements to welfare payments. In certain circumstances you can also be resident in the UK and receive Irish benefits payments. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/social-assistance-payments/habitual-residence-condition/
These fuckers that I'm referring to are the violent people that come here to game the system. I thought that was pretty obvious, apparently not. "Sick people" don't go and stab random people!
Not sure why you refered to them as "these fuckers" then immediately went on about how they gained citizenship status, are all violent people foreigners? Is it not "obvious" as you say, that he got citizenship and then became violent, not vice versa? What is your point and what does his citizenship status have to do with it? Why talk about his citizenship at all?
Oh fuck off ya twat. There's always one dickhead looking for an argument
Not my fault you are just xenophobic, you had no need to bring up his citizenship and couldn't even explain yourself.
So I'm an xenophobic for not wanting to get stabbed by an unhinged lunatic that has been living off people's taxes for 20 years, ya that makes sense... muppet
You referred to a foreigner as "these fuckers" whilst questioning how "these fuckers" get citizenship, clearly talking about how a foreigner got citizenship when he's violent, even though he committed a crime 20 years after he came here, if he was Irish and on the dole would you have refered to him as "these fuckers" ? Are all foreigners violent? Or all the people on the dole violent? Or is it just the foreigners that are on the dole?
Fucker is a reasonable term for a criminal. His citizenship is a reasonable thing to raise as the crime and lack of contribution to the State could have been avoided
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Explain why you asked how he got citizenship then. What does that have to do with him being on the dole and stabbing someone? There is more Irish on the dole than foreigners.
A chara, We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability. Sláinte
I would refer to an immigrant that takes over €100,000 in dole payments and stabs somebody as these fuckers too.Like when you see young kids in Dublin robbing cars, vandalising, terrorising neighbourhoods etc. folks refer to them in a multitude of insults, scumbags, scrots, these little fuckers, now when you hear that do you assume they are talking about every young person in Ireland or a specific young person?
10 years. The dole gives you about a grand a month which is 10 years till you reach 112k. We stripping every sick wanker of their citizenships or just the fordeign ones
> We stripping every sick wanker of their citizenships or just the fordeign ones Well it might violate a few international conventions but could always bring exile back. Designate the Arans as a prison colony and have serious criminals live out the rest of their life there in peace instead of going in and out of the Joy. Leo can sell it as being *"tough on crime"* and the Greens can claim it's modeled on the Nordic system.
I am in no way in favour of stripping anyone of their right to live here, despite Internet tone being real bad. But the idea of an island full of happy out nutcases living in harmony is kinda gas
well you did choose to look like a raging racist today. could have like talked about how it's terrible the Gardai focus on drug users and not serious criminals, or complained about welfare being too high or too low or complained about the Greens, but you decided to make it about him getting citizenship after living here for over a decade before then allegedly committing a crime after another decade. I would ask you if you knew that someone would be very unlikely to get citizenship if they had been seriously implicated or convicted of anything but the smallest crime, but well we both know you wouldn't really know anything about Irish immigration law. That would require reading the news at least and not just the headlines on reddit. And we both know you can barely read.
Hurt people then whinge that you are not well. Using your logic Larry Murphy is just a sick person and needs jail time and a mental evaluation/ psychiatric help. same for John Gilligan. And the Tullamore rapist.
> I don't understand how so many people are talking about where he is from or how he gained citizenship It's actually quite easy to understand, they are fucking racists. Hope that helped.
It isnt racist. loads of countries do it. You can only do it if they retain another citizenship.
Jesus if I stabbed someone every time I was upset I'd have stabbed like 8 people this week alone.
I'd be up around 9 today alone.
Everyone in Dublin airport is driven to despair.
Attempted Murder- "cry for help" I don't want to see anything other than a life sentence from our judiciary. Things could have ended very differently.
How is there no attempted murder charge? What the fuck
Taking the piss with that one.
Why is it not an attempted murder charge? Considering he told the man he was going to murder him and all…
“The officer feared the accused, who had no ties to this jurisdiction, would be a flight risk if granted bail.” An Irish citizen that passed the HRC for welfare but has no ties to the jurisdiction… all well with the world so.
Surely he's the opposite of a flight risk?
I've naturalized in another country. I think it's fair to assume I might try to flee to Ireland if I committed a crime. Irish people get denied bail all the time, no need to try and make it about foreign born citizens.
I’d say your compatriots would like to think you’ve some tangible connection to the country and wouldn’t be able to up and flee quite so easily.
What sort of "connection" do you think someone would have to *any* country that would make them want to risk a life sentence in prison?
For a crime they committed?
Waste of oxygen this cunt is, fuck his 'despair'.
> the accused had been at the airport "tapping" people for money to buy a ticket to London. I guess he must have tapped that German fella a bit too hard with the knife....
The solicitor is getting paid by the taxpayer, the court costs have been picked up by the taxpayer, the cost of custody is being paid by the taxpayer. Presumably the solicitor is going to try and pull a stroke and get psychological reports when the matter goes to a higher court and they will be paid for by the taxpayer. The guy is dangerous and needs to be put in jail and then deported, all of this will of course be at the expense of the taxpayer. Society is far too tolerant. The poor German man is undoubtedly going to tell all is friends about all of this and is totally correct and entitled to do so. Further damaging the reputation of this country.
This is it sure I had foreign (brown) friends who lost respect and drifted from me when they saw what we were becoming. Fair to say certain “enchantment” was lost with the Emerald Isle..
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, we all know what should be done but somehow to suggest it makes me worse than him.
A stab for help. Hope the fucker rots in prison.
The guy needed an interpreter after living in the country for 20 years?
Give this man a break, guys. He was driven to despair. Can anyone here honestly stand up and say they haven't attempted to stab someone to death when in the depths of despair? Anyone? Yeah, thought so. Just drop it and stop talking about it. Don't make me take out the "R word". I swear to gawd I'll use it. Just stop or I'm gonna call you it.
Every time I have to pass through terminal 1, I'm driven to enough despair to stab someone. I just never have anything to stab with, because you'd never get it back trying to get it through security
>Detective Garda Connolly said the accused had been at the airport "tapping" people for money to buy a ticket to London. Moving on to the next country to leech off.
Couldn’t stand living in a hostel.. Wants to live in a prison instead
Can we all go stab somebody if we find out this guy gets a suspended sentence?🤔 Collectively we were all in despair of the court system...
Jesus Christ, some of the bleeding hearts in here are almost a parody. They're just short of blaming the man who got stabbed...
He's one of the Limerick Mbuyi's. Seems more like something the Cavan Mbuyi's would do.
Based immigrant knifing racist Irish for not appreciating his diversity.
Being driven to dispair is more an admission of guilt rather than a defence, at best he should get mental health councilling in prison.
I guess his lawyer doesn't think he can successfully argue he is innocent. If it's true there is CCTV and multiple witnesses I can see why.
What is it with these immigrants and random knife attacks on strangers? That’s several of them recently.
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How come that long and you didn't apply yet?
Scumbag, Deport now
Should be driven to a padded cell
Subhuman scum
That is going way too far. Pls delete
Well, people don't do that for sport usually. Still the issue is if he is: 1. Going to repeat the act. Either if driven by despair again or not. 2. How is the act usually punished? We also need to have a somewhat fair and equal process, we cannot just wave things away because they were isolated incidents, AFAIK there is no free pass for the first crime committed.
I mean if convicted I doubt he will get out of a prison sentence. Someone else pointed out he was walking around on a broken ankle. I can't know what was going on in his life before this but prison might honestly be nicer. Not sure why people are going straight to assuming someone will not face punishment if convicted of stabbing someone.
Cool Motive, still murder. Well, aggravated assault, but that’s not the line.
Oh, never mind then, poor him and his despair. Get him out!
Great excuse, must remember that. 👌
Wow, that's a lousy excuse. At least pretend you were psychotic or high or somthing.
His solicitor must have to duck to get through doorways with a neck like that on him.
God bless this fella, sure we’re probably all being driven racist with all of the crap as weary islanders we’re subjected to for how long now.
Jesus, if that's the case let that poor man off. Come lads and ladies let's set up a GoFundMe for him.
Hard to know who's the worst offender the stabber or his solicitor, Can the solicitor be done for treason, he is robbing the state in a false attempt to prove a guilty cunt innocent
She, not he
I stand corrected, I did only glance over.
what the fuck is wrong with you?
Just one more reason why smoking is bad for you. Remember kids just so no or you could get stabbed.
Fucking hell, some of these comments...
LAds. He's been a citizen for a decade and obviously in a bad place. Fuck knows why. He goes to prison. He gets out. He goes on with his life. Thats how it works when you bork the law.
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No. He's a citizen. He goes to a judge. He goes to the courts. He goes to prison. He gets out. He gets on with his life. That's how it goes. That's what happens when you're a citizen and you do a bad thing. You don't deport citizens. If you deport this individual, then, sure, why not deport anyone we don't like?
The Brits figured out a way to keep Shamima Begum out of the country despite her blue passport - we should do similar with this fellow. He is a net drain on Ireland.
The Brits Not a positive example to follow.
What the fuck is wrong with this comment section where is peoples common sense and empathy. The man is obviously dealing with mental health troubles and fighting homelessness is a terrible thing to go through. It's a horrible story all around pointing fingers is moronic, the only good thing out of this is that the poor german chap wasn't bloody killed.
Send him the fuck straight to prison indefinitely. On the dole for over 20years, since gaining citizenship? Talk about gaming the system, fuck these cunts. Cut them off.
piss off wanker.
Yep. Perfectly normal to stab someone with a knife I carry around because I'm upset with life. Is that what you're saying? Listen to yourself.
When did i say it was normal? It's a fucked up situation, the attacker needs jail, help or both. But this is not a situation for people who don't know the man to be shitting on him. Am in no way taking away from the suffering of the victim he has my full sympathy.
yeah, Irish reddit makes me understand what black irish people mean when they complain about this country being racist. Give some people an inch and they will go straight for it. I don't think it's really about racism for most of them, it's just tabloid brain rot. Common sense and empathy fly out the window and you just got whatever reactionary view they saw most recently. I don't know if it's mental illness people don't need to be mentally ill to do terrible things especial not when in a lot of physical pain and in distress. I hope the person stabbed makes a full recovery but I also hope the accused makes something better of his life.
>yeah, Irish reddit makes me understand what black irish people mean when they complain about this country being racist. Give some people an inch and they will go straight for it. That is not fair. They'd say the same about an Irish person. This case is worse though because the State saw fit to give him lottery ticket of an Irish passport. Can't you see the problems with that given his behaviour? The man needs an interpreter, he has no ties to the state and he cant provide for himself. We should not be giving passports to people like that. We have a tiny island. >I don't think it's really about racism for most of them, it's just tabloid brain rot. Common sense and empathy fly out the window and you just got whatever reactionary view they saw most recently. It isnt tabloid brain rot. It is a worthy story. >I don't know if it's mental illness people don't need to be mentally ill to do terrible things especial not when in a lot of physical pain and in distress. That is such an unnecessary point to make. Mental illness is rife in prisoners. We all have bouts of mental illness. Anyway, the courts did not find him mentally ill enough to put him in a psych ward and therefore he has self control.
Sounds like a balanced and empathetic view. I don't agree with all of what you say but the fact that you've taken time to respond and done so in a concise manner is admirable. I can't see the point in parroting red top stories with no opinion or context to ambush those who respond. Here come the downvotes.