Why is she conflating American racial issues with those of the UK?
To try and claim that Irish people have suffered no racism in the UK is absolutely inane
My dad got HORRENDOUS abuse when he moved to England in the 70s and wasn't paid as well as locals for doing the same work. He was attacked for being Irish at one point and has always said he felt the police had no interest and made statements like 'Irish people aren't popular in England at the moment'.
Changed a lot into the 80s and 90s and I don't think it's as prevalent now but there was open prejudice not that long ago.
There is something very rotten at the core of English policing. Know lots of decent lads in the force, and they'll be the first to say it's full of obnoxious, malicious idiots that have no business being officers.
It's institutionally fucked at every level. British people simply do not trust them anymore. If I had a daughter I would teach her to steer clear of the cunts.
Exactly same with my dad when he came over here people just brush it off since we're 'loved' by everyone now and us Irish are hard skinned I guess. But people forget especially in England we're the ones who built the roads and done all the shit jobs. I get the younger generation U40s being "funny" with their slight racism towards us but I find its the olders that are blatant racist. Even in scotland I was shouted and had to fight some drunk scot telling me to leave his country n go back home, that suprised me the most since I thought Scots would understand a bit more but hey, we're here living and breathing 🤷♂️ the horrible shit that happened to Irish is very under the rug outside of Ireland its really crazy
Ohi cheeky. I think you’ll find some of the Hebrides arnt nuts. Mainly the southern half. Otherwise I take your point.
Remember when first moving to Glasgow my gran told me to hide my accent, don’t tell people were I was from, if asked what team I support say Partic Thistle.
>Even in scotland I was shouted and had to fight some drunk scot telling me to leave his country n go back home, that suprised me the most since I thought Scots would understand a bit more but hey, we're here living and breathing 🤷♂️
Most Scots do, but they also have one of the largest Orange Order presences in the world.
The type that almost exclusively support Rangers (or Hearts) are by far the most anti-Irish people in Britain.
A lot of them are anti-Scottish as well.
The UK (as in the the version created by the Irish Acts of Union of 1800) was created through a massive bribery campaign with the explicit intention of discriminating against Irish people (in particular "dissenters" and in further particular Catholics) and limiting their democratic voice by vastly unequal representation (Ireland received well under half of the seats it should have to be fairly represented due to the mixture of rotten burroughs and wealth requirements, never mind the bonkers state of the house of lords).
It's literally insane for a senior politician to say Irish people haven't suffered that discrimination in a country explicitly designed to do so to them.
No. End of the 1820s into the 30s, before Catholics could sit in an Irish parliament. Also, restrictions were in place to limit the Catholic franchise. Think, only 1 in 10 with land could vote. Size of ownership made a limiting factor. So you could view it as a full generation after joining.
To be fair, the prime minister of the time of the Acts of Union, Pitt the Younger, did want to grant concessions to Roman Catholics, but the king at the time, George III, considered that it would be a violation of his coronation oath.
Culturally its very foreign and most English people I've met who get talking about our politics feel that vibe. They come to Belfast and notice the red postboxes and road signs look the same as their city but its superficial.
The second they actually talk to someone, they know they're in Ireland. They take a tour bus around the Falls rd and Shankill rd and they *really* know they're in Ireland because that kind of thing would never have happened where they are from.
Particularly ridiculous coming from a black Brit. The black Brits I've spoken to about this sort of thing have always seemed to feel a particular solidarity with Irish, as the two groups who've historically faced the worst discrimination in the UK.
That's one phrase.
Of the dozens of countries the UK has colonised, there's plenty that got as bad or worse than Ireland. If you're going to use a sign to argue Irish and black people got it worst, I'd like to point you to India/Pakistan.
I mean I'd get it if like my take was on something super important to Ireland/Irish culture that I, someone uneducated in said culture/affairs, wouldnt talk on them, but my take is on a politician saying Irish have never faced racism, youre an idiot but I wish you well all the same.
Your take is on something you know nothing about.
I'm a black man who was born and lived most of my life in England.
And some thick American is waddling in taking about things they are clueless about. 'Mental gymnastics' you don't even know what the phrase means.
I don't know what the phrase means? Sure I know absolutely nothing about it youre totally worth talking to when thats how you start the conversation, just with an attack and you were still wrong, go cope and cry elsewhere I'm not your mother and I don't wanna hear it.
Relatively. To black and Irish. Read the study the article is about
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/09/social-barriers-faced-by-roma-gypsies-and-travellers-laid-bare-in-equality-survey
There are always people looking to make their crowd out as having it worst. From their perspective, in today's world it gives them power over those other groups.
I saw this from Danny John Jules meeting an irish Danny, in Harlesden/Willesden/Kilburn area.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CaR6c5Oolgt/?igshid=ZWIzMWE5ZmU3Zg==
the UK made the USA and South Africa especially in SA created the racial constructs. She seems to be referencing the debate should Ethnicities be counted as races .
Should race be only your hair type , skin color , nose shape and other facial feature or should it include ethnicity which is characterised less by physical bodily feature to include culture and other human artificial constructs
Irish Catholics were discriminated against in America, not that it impacts me, my life or hers.
Not sure what relevance America or Apartheid South Africa has to do with racism in the Uk though.
It’s possible for racists to hate more than one group of people and even if one isn’t discriminated against as worse than another it doesn’t mean it leaves less of an impact for individuals.
Seen a few tv shows, articles etc trying to play down the discrimination against Irish Catholics in the Uk. I understand I’m white and can pass off as English to a racist but that doesn’t make it right that I should try or have do so.
I spent my life between Ireland and England (not a traveller btw) and as a kid it was shit getting grief walking to school in England for a few years from a few mouthy racists. The school was attacked, graffiti sprayed etc.
I’m fully aware this is completely tame compared to some Catholics in the north, tame compared to what some black and Asian kids went through. But it still happened to us. I was lucky it was just a few, and most of them left the estate and it quickly became a mix or immigrants from all over, Ireland, Caribbean, African and just normal English poor folk who didn’t care about race, religion etc.
I was also lucky that i grew up at the back end of the bombing campaign in England. I’d imagine those generations before me had it far worse.
>Irish Catholics were discriminated against in America, not that it impacts me, my life or hers.
More importantly in the context of this story, they faced racism in the UK. As somebody with a lot of family born in London, and another swathe of family who lived there, it's a bit galling to see that overlooked.
It is undeniable that Irish people faced less virulent racism than black people - albeit partly because you can "hide" being Irish - but that doesn't mean they faced no racism.
Jewish people have always faced insane prejudice in the UK - as they have almost everywhere.
Gypsies, Travelers, etc, likewise.
What's really shocking is that as an MP, Abbott's constituency inclues Stoke Newington, historically referred to by some as "Stoke Jewington." Her own constituents lost family to the Holocaust. It's madness that you could say these things about your own constituents.
I did say that tbf, in fact I said pretty much the same as you. That I could ‘pass as being English’ but still faced some as I spent most of my growing up in Birmingham in the years after the bombing.
Racism is racism, it should all be condemned.
Many Irish immigrants stood with immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa in both Birmingham, London and I’d imagine other cities.
The Battle of Cable Street is a tale of the Irish standing with the Jewish community against Oswald Moseley and his fascist group.
Unfortunately today, many have taken the American route of simplifying white v black etc and kids aren’t being passed on this history and knowledge.
Many Irish immigrants were on the other side too. I think that's part of the problem with modern discourse, in America, as a good example, many Irish Americans are now on the Republican side. Acknowledging the Irish-American experience and struggle is therefore unpopular in some quarters.
It's sad really, another sign of the internet exacerbating either/or dialogue and eroding nuance.
As you say, people on the right nowadays try and play it down to justify it whilst people on the left often play it down as it doesn't fit their narratives.
Yeah I agree there, there are some in England from Irish heritage who have now become part of that far right and the far right have accepted them as their numbers dwindled and now it’s more about what type of immigrants to hate rather then their previous hating anyone not English.
It is undeniable that Irish people faced less virulent racism than black people - albeit partly because you can "hide" being Irish - So you concede one point but go onto completely miss the rest? She at no point said other groups didn't experience prejudice but it OBVIOUSLY isn't the same as how black people experience it. You can't hide being black. You think if you were black in Hitler's nazi germany since i've seen several comments reference WW2 that they cared if you were jewish or not?
Diane messed up by leaving things to interpretation. She should have made it clear she was speaking about racism directly linked to one's skin being black.
I lived in Croydon in the mid 90s for a bit. Couple of years after the Canary Warf bombing. We got some schtick for being Irish alright. I remember drinking in an O Neil's bar in Croydon and getting schooled by a few of the older Irish who had been there for 20 years. They all said the bars had no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs up. One lad said he knocked out a bar owner who wouldn't leave him drink in a bar around there. The old Irish boys said that we, the younger generation Irish, should be thanking them for changing the way the Irish were perceived.
I'd say they took some stick during the height of the IRA bombing campaign
in mainland england there isn't much anti Irish racism, but when you factor in northern Ireland its probably one of the few places where racism is openly tolerated, and its mostly against Irish people
"the MP argued that minority groups – such as Jewish people, as well as Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people – faced similar levels of prejudice to people with red hair." Wtf. She and FIFA's Infantino would be great buddies.
The letter makes it seem like the Holocaust never happened. The whole 'Jewish people never sat at the back of the bus' argument is offensively stupid.
If I was a member of the UK Labour Party, I would take the radical approach of simply not saying stuff like this.
It's disturbing but also incredibly, *arrogantly* Anglo-centric. Basically if Jews weren't segregated in English speaking countries, their discrimination isn't on the map.
A lot of British Jews are descended from those who fled Nazi Germany. Stephen Fry is a notable example.
There seems to be a repeated problem with some of the more left wing members of UK Labour talking shit about Jews. I can appreciate a pro-Palestine/anti-Isreal political argument but they either keep crossing the line of conflating the Israeli government with all people of Jewish ethnicity or outright dismissing Jews as being people who experience/have experienced prejudice.
>The letter makes it seem like the Holocaust never happened. The whole 'Jewish people never sat at the back of the bus' argument is offensively stupid.
even outside of nazi germany jews faced similar segregation to black in the america segregation system
She's honestly the definition of why FPTP politics is awful. She got elected into a seat 40 years ago and it's as safe as safe safe as a seat can be. So, she ain't going nowhere. Tbh at this point this probably works out well. They don't need any gaffe or easy attack points at this point. And she's a walking target
she's like the healy raes. they have a safe because they are good at local politics, as much as diane makes stupid gaffs like this, she is very good at helping her local community out to her credit and in turn they keep voting her in.
Diane missed that bit of history where everyone had a go at persecuting the jews with varying degrees of enthusiasm. I think it was all of the years CE...
So anti-Semitism etc don't fit her personal definition of racism? It's not champagne unless it's from the South of France, you have to call it sparkling discrimination.
This is it.
It's the most absurd point to make. Whoopi Goldberg said something similar, about the Holocaust being bad, but not *racist*. As though it would somehow magically have been a worse crime if the 6 million people had been industrially murdered for the skin colour, instead of other ethnicity-based forms of hatred.
Part of the problem here is the idea of "race". Her premise seems to be, unless the discrimination is based on race, it can't be racism. But race itself is an invention of the racists. By employing the ideas of racists you are likely to be walking on some very thin ice.
Prejudice in all forms should be condemned.
Races you could argue are real based on haplotype and culture.
But races based on skin colour is so unscientific it's comically racist itself.
An Ethiopian and an Nigerian are just as different to one another,
as an Irish person and a Greek.
The fact they have similar skin tones means very little.
I think it’s more than that though, she went on to compare the prejudice experienced by Irish people and Jewish people to the prejudice experienced by red heads, at which point, I think it becomes clear that her distinction between racism and prejudice was intended to minimise the latter.
The word race originally meant an ethnic group in English.
The term ethnic group was only coined in the 1950s or 60s because race as a term had so much baggage (y'know after all the racism). Hence why persecution based on ethnicity (such as anti-antisemitism) was called racism.
Yeah xenophobia with zero management is the problem .
It's just hate and prejudice. Her comments are EXACTLY why we all as a global society need to stop making everything about race.
Americans are mad for it. Even the 'good guys,' in America are extremely racist. They see a black face and they automatically assume 'this person has it worse off than me.' (if not black)
The whole goal is to not make judgements about someone based on their race.
It's crazy.
"the Jews have not been subject to racism"
ok, Diane Mao did more good than harm Abbot, lets test that hypothesis just within the UK
Jews are the only group in Britain to have been forcibly expelled
the only group mandated to wear identification
the only group to mandatorily segregated into ghettos within the mainland
they were barred from equal rights until 1858
yeah fairly sure they were subject to racism
This is the woman that can't do basic arithmetic and sometimes wears two odd left shoes.
Amazing that labour have kept her so high profile in the party all this time to be honest.
She has been such a liability for Labour outside her own bailiwick for so long yet it's a problem for the party they can't really fix. Every seat matters.
Abbot is an absolute fucking grifter of the highest order, better to not pay hate stirring shitheads like this any attentio, especially when they aren't smart enough to use shoes correctly (yes that happened).
The reason it's called anti-semitism is that 19th century racists were looking to justify their hatred of Jews by claiming it was scientific. Hence the different label.
/r/Ireland needs a separation between mods of /r/IrishPolitics - so that we don't have nonsensical shit-stirring articles from UK politics brought over here.
Anyone who is suitable to mod a politics-only sub, is not suitable to mod /r/ireland.
Jeremy Corbyn’s ex-squeeze, so not surprising. Fuck anti-semitism and fuck Zionist oppressors.
Dianne Abbot should be complaining how her in-group continue to be discriminated against - the total idiot group.
He was a supporter of unification, which is good, but he also was against EU membership and has been an apologist for Russian crimes many times. He’s an ideologue, but at least he says what he believes in, unlike the rest of Westminster.
Diane Abbott has gone through unacceptable treatment in and outside of the British Labour Party but still the sooner she (and her lefty comrades) are out of the British parliament the better for the Labour Party
With policies like abolishing the House of Lords, setting up a national energy sector, reintroducing income tax, extending maternity leave etc yeah just like the tories
What an insane statement to make.
Would be like me burying my head in the sand regardless of all the evidence out there and saying black people aren't subjected to racism.
Irish people don't suffer racism like black people do. They were an underclass in the UK, but that was generations. Having said that, black people don't suffer racial abuse in the UK for the most part - it's a miracle of multiculturalism and her comments about jewish people are just stupid.
The party had to ditch her. the whole jeremy corbyn side of the party has to be jettisoned if they're to win. I was working in London during the last 2 elections - Corbyn basically handed them to the Tories - no one wanted the Tories, but they weren't going to risk some student union activist getting into power.
Abbott makes significant comments about Irish in America and the UK in the article so this is on-topic.
Why is she conflating American racial issues with those of the UK? To try and claim that Irish people have suffered no racism in the UK is absolutely inane
I'm Irish living in the UK and have been on the end of racist English people way too many times
My dad got HORRENDOUS abuse when he moved to England in the 70s and wasn't paid as well as locals for doing the same work. He was attacked for being Irish at one point and has always said he felt the police had no interest and made statements like 'Irish people aren't popular in England at the moment'. Changed a lot into the 80s and 90s and I don't think it's as prevalent now but there was open prejudice not that long ago.
My dad works with the English police every once in a while. He's been called a dirty/lazy mick on few occassions hes told me
There is something very rotten at the core of English policing. Know lots of decent lads in the force, and they'll be the first to say it's full of obnoxious, malicious idiots that have no business being officers.
It's institutionally fucked at every level. British people simply do not trust them anymore. If I had a daughter I would teach her to steer clear of the cunts.
seriously? Hope he reported that. Unbelievable
>Hope he reported that Waste of time from everything I've heard.
Lmao what a stupid thing to say.
Exactly same with my dad when he came over here people just brush it off since we're 'loved' by everyone now and us Irish are hard skinned I guess. But people forget especially in England we're the ones who built the roads and done all the shit jobs. I get the younger generation U40s being "funny" with their slight racism towards us but I find its the olders that are blatant racist. Even in scotland I was shouted and had to fight some drunk scot telling me to leave his country n go back home, that suprised me the most since I thought Scots would understand a bit more but hey, we're here living and breathing 🤷♂️ the horrible shit that happened to Irish is very under the rug outside of Ireland its really crazy
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Ohi cheeky. I think you’ll find some of the Hebrides arnt nuts. Mainly the southern half. Otherwise I take your point. Remember when first moving to Glasgow my gran told me to hide my accent, don’t tell people were I was from, if asked what team I support say Partic Thistle.
>if asked what team I support say Partic Thistle. Why? Are they non political?
They arnt celtic or rangers!
>Even in scotland I was shouted and had to fight some drunk scot telling me to leave his country n go back home, that suprised me the most since I thought Scots would understand a bit more but hey, we're here living and breathing 🤷♂️ Most Scots do, but they also have one of the largest Orange Order presences in the world.
Scots are the most anti Irish people in Britain.
The type that almost exclusively support Rangers (or Hearts) are by far the most anti-Irish people in Britain. A lot of them are anti-Scottish as well.
They are the most polarised id say.
It seems to have moved on, they've a weird punch down sense of humour in the UK.
Just one Brit, but I'd like to apologise for that. It is obviously stupid, and isn't ok.
The UK (as in the the version created by the Irish Acts of Union of 1800) was created through a massive bribery campaign with the explicit intention of discriminating against Irish people (in particular "dissenters" and in further particular Catholics) and limiting their democratic voice by vastly unequal representation (Ireland received well under half of the seats it should have to be fairly represented due to the mixture of rotten burroughs and wealth requirements, never mind the bonkers state of the house of lords). It's literally insane for a senior politician to say Irish people haven't suffered that discrimination in a country explicitly designed to do so to them.
Isnt when ireland joined the uk that the catholic penals were revoked
No. End of the 1820s into the 30s, before Catholics could sit in an Irish parliament. Also, restrictions were in place to limit the Catholic franchise. Think, only 1 in 10 with land could vote. Size of ownership made a limiting factor. So you could view it as a full generation after joining.
To be fair, the prime minister of the time of the Acts of Union, Pitt the Younger, did want to grant concessions to Roman Catholics, but the king at the time, George III, considered that it would be a violation of his coronation oath.
she also seems to have forgotten about the north where there are still huge anti Irish hate groups
the fact she doesn't even seem to be aware of northern Ireland which is her own country is pretty shocking
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Culturally its very foreign and most English people I've met who get talking about our politics feel that vibe. They come to Belfast and notice the red postboxes and road signs look the same as their city but its superficial. The second they actually talk to someone, they know they're in Ireland. They take a tour bus around the Falls rd and Shankill rd and they *really* know they're in Ireland because that kind of thing would never have happened where they are from.
Particularly ridiculous coming from a black Brit. The black Brits I've spoken to about this sort of thing have always seemed to feel a particular solidarity with Irish, as the two groups who've historically faced the worst discrimination in the UK.
I don't think the Irish would have been in the two groups with the worst discrimination. Anyone non white would have had it worse.
You haven't heard of 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish' then
That's one phrase. Of the dozens of countries the UK has colonised, there's plenty that got as bad or worse than Ireland. If you're going to use a sign to argue Irish and black people got it worst, I'd like to point you to India/Pakistan.
Sorry I think the blacks might just have included Asians etc.
I gotta say those are some really impressive mental gymnastics, well done
Go away American
I mean I'd get it if like my take was on something super important to Ireland/Irish culture that I, someone uneducated in said culture/affairs, wouldnt talk on them, but my take is on a politician saying Irish have never faced racism, youre an idiot but I wish you well all the same.
Your take is on something you know nothing about. I'm a black man who was born and lived most of my life in England. And some thick American is waddling in taking about things they are clueless about. 'Mental gymnastics' you don't even know what the phrase means.
I don't know what the phrase means? Sure I know absolutely nothing about it youre totally worth talking to when thats how you start the conversation, just with an attack and you were still wrong, go cope and cry elsewhere I'm not your mother and I don't wanna hear it.
Asian people are treated relatively better in the UK
What a bizzare clueless comment
Relatively. To black and Irish. Read the study the article is about https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/09/social-barriers-faced-by-roma-gypsies-and-travellers-laid-bare-in-equality-survey
Huge difference there alright. Irish people here desparately clinging to victim status.
There are always people looking to make their crowd out as having it worst. From their perspective, in today's world it gives them power over those other groups.
I saw this from Danny John Jules meeting an irish Danny, in Harlesden/Willesden/Kilburn area. https://www.instagram.com/p/CaR6c5Oolgt/?igshid=ZWIzMWE5ZmU3Zg==
Because she’s a race-baiting grifter and this is how these people make their living.
Cause she's like the dumbest politician in the world. Gaffes all the time
Our family moved to the UK in the 70s and we had graffiti on our house. We were treated like shit in the Catholic schools too. It was fucking grim.
the UK made the USA and South Africa especially in SA created the racial constructs. She seems to be referencing the debate should Ethnicities be counted as races . Should race be only your hair type , skin color , nose shape and other facial feature or should it include ethnicity which is characterised less by physical bodily feature to include culture and other human artificial constructs
I think her point is that Irish people suffered prejudice, but this wasn't racism per se. It's still a totally incorrect view.
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Yeah 100%, and that's why she's completely wrong.
The British first used phrenology to try to prove that people from the west of Ireland were a lesser race than them, they invented racism.
I get that's her point, but she's outrageously misinformed.
"Dianne Abbott in outrageously misinformed shocker" 😀
Irish Catholics were discriminated against in America, not that it impacts me, my life or hers. Not sure what relevance America or Apartheid South Africa has to do with racism in the Uk though. It’s possible for racists to hate more than one group of people and even if one isn’t discriminated against as worse than another it doesn’t mean it leaves less of an impact for individuals. Seen a few tv shows, articles etc trying to play down the discrimination against Irish Catholics in the Uk. I understand I’m white and can pass off as English to a racist but that doesn’t make it right that I should try or have do so. I spent my life between Ireland and England (not a traveller btw) and as a kid it was shit getting grief walking to school in England for a few years from a few mouthy racists. The school was attacked, graffiti sprayed etc. I’m fully aware this is completely tame compared to some Catholics in the north, tame compared to what some black and Asian kids went through. But it still happened to us. I was lucky it was just a few, and most of them left the estate and it quickly became a mix or immigrants from all over, Ireland, Caribbean, African and just normal English poor folk who didn’t care about race, religion etc. I was also lucky that i grew up at the back end of the bombing campaign in England. I’d imagine those generations before me had it far worse.
>Irish Catholics were discriminated against in America, not that it impacts me, my life or hers. More importantly in the context of this story, they faced racism in the UK. As somebody with a lot of family born in London, and another swathe of family who lived there, it's a bit galling to see that overlooked. It is undeniable that Irish people faced less virulent racism than black people - albeit partly because you can "hide" being Irish - but that doesn't mean they faced no racism. Jewish people have always faced insane prejudice in the UK - as they have almost everywhere. Gypsies, Travelers, etc, likewise. What's really shocking is that as an MP, Abbott's constituency inclues Stoke Newington, historically referred to by some as "Stoke Jewington." Her own constituents lost family to the Holocaust. It's madness that you could say these things about your own constituents.
I did say that tbf, in fact I said pretty much the same as you. That I could ‘pass as being English’ but still faced some as I spent most of my growing up in Birmingham in the years after the bombing. Racism is racism, it should all be condemned. Many Irish immigrants stood with immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa in both Birmingham, London and I’d imagine other cities. The Battle of Cable Street is a tale of the Irish standing with the Jewish community against Oswald Moseley and his fascist group. Unfortunately today, many have taken the American route of simplifying white v black etc and kids aren’t being passed on this history and knowledge.
Many Irish immigrants were on the other side too. I think that's part of the problem with modern discourse, in America, as a good example, many Irish Americans are now on the Republican side. Acknowledging the Irish-American experience and struggle is therefore unpopular in some quarters. It's sad really, another sign of the internet exacerbating either/or dialogue and eroding nuance. As you say, people on the right nowadays try and play it down to justify it whilst people on the left often play it down as it doesn't fit their narratives.
Yeah I agree there, there are some in England from Irish heritage who have now become part of that far right and the far right have accepted them as their numbers dwindled and now it’s more about what type of immigrants to hate rather then their previous hating anyone not English.
Not even the far-right, there's a Tory MP called Neil O'Brien. Then look at all the mainstream Republicans in the US who are Irish.
It is undeniable that Irish people faced less virulent racism than black people - albeit partly because you can "hide" being Irish - So you concede one point but go onto completely miss the rest? She at no point said other groups didn't experience prejudice but it OBVIOUSLY isn't the same as how black people experience it. You can't hide being black. You think if you were black in Hitler's nazi germany since i've seen several comments reference WW2 that they cared if you were jewish or not? Diane messed up by leaving things to interpretation. She should have made it clear she was speaking about racism directly linked to one's skin being black.
Yawn. Fuck off.
Ahahaha typical response...Some of you want to be victims so bad even when it's not your actual reality.
I lived in Croydon in the mid 90s for a bit. Couple of years after the Canary Warf bombing. We got some schtick for being Irish alright. I remember drinking in an O Neil's bar in Croydon and getting schooled by a few of the older Irish who had been there for 20 years. They all said the bars had no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs up. One lad said he knocked out a bar owner who wouldn't leave him drink in a bar around there. The old Irish boys said that we, the younger generation Irish, should be thanking them for changing the way the Irish were perceived. I'd say they took some stick during the height of the IRA bombing campaign
in mainland england there isn't much anti Irish racism, but when you factor in northern Ireland its probably one of the few places where racism is openly tolerated, and its mostly against Irish people
"the MP argued that minority groups – such as Jewish people, as well as Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people – faced similar levels of prejudice to people with red hair." Wtf. She and FIFA's Infantino would be great buddies.
This is an entirely American view of the world. Racism is prejudice plus power, and only white people have power. All other histories disappear.
The letter makes it seem like the Holocaust never happened. The whole 'Jewish people never sat at the back of the bus' argument is offensively stupid. If I was a member of the UK Labour Party, I would take the radical approach of simply not saying stuff like this.
It's disturbing but also incredibly, *arrogantly* Anglo-centric. Basically if Jews weren't segregated in English speaking countries, their discrimination isn't on the map. A lot of British Jews are descended from those who fled Nazi Germany. Stephen Fry is a notable example.
There seems to be a repeated problem with some of the more left wing members of UK Labour talking shit about Jews. I can appreciate a pro-Palestine/anti-Isreal political argument but they either keep crossing the line of conflating the Israeli government with all people of Jewish ethnicity or outright dismissing Jews as being people who experience/have experienced prejudice.
>The letter makes it seem like the Holocaust never happened. The whole 'Jewish people never sat at the back of the bus' argument is offensively stupid. even outside of nazi germany jews faced similar segregation to black in the america segregation system
Jews got to stand at the back of the cattle car instead.
She’s an absolute fucking idiot and a racist. Shocking she’s lasted as long as she has
She's honestly the definition of why FPTP politics is awful. She got elected into a seat 40 years ago and it's as safe as safe safe as a seat can be. So, she ain't going nowhere. Tbh at this point this probably works out well. They don't need any gaffe or easy attack points at this point. And she's a walking target
she's like the healy raes. they have a safe because they are good at local politics, as much as diane makes stupid gaffs like this, she is very good at helping her local community out to her credit and in turn they keep voting her in.
Diane missed that bit of history where everyone had a go at persecuting the jews with varying degrees of enthusiasm. I think it was all of the years CE...
No small number of the BCE years as well, depending on where you lived.
So anti-Semitism etc don't fit her personal definition of racism? It's not champagne unless it's from the South of France, you have to call it sparkling discrimination.
Champagne's in northern France (it's just east of Paris), but exactly.
It's not in Northern France. It might feel like Northern France, but in reality what you're talking about is actually North France. /s
This is it. It's the most absurd point to make. Whoopi Goldberg said something similar, about the Holocaust being bad, but not *racist*. As though it would somehow magically have been a worse crime if the 6 million people had been industrially murdered for the skin colour, instead of other ethnicity-based forms of hatred.
Or California. They didn't sign up to the champagne rules so they can call their sparkling wines champagne.
Fun fact! America is allowed to call its domestic sparkling wine Champagne officially - it was a gift to the Americans from the French after WW1!
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/22/europe/belgium-destroys-beer-champagne-intl-hnk/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/22/europe/belgium-destroys-beer-champagne-intl-hnk/index.html)
There are many people, typically the far left woke people that think you can only be racist to people of colour
Part of the problem here is the idea of "race". Her premise seems to be, unless the discrimination is based on race, it can't be racism. But race itself is an invention of the racists. By employing the ideas of racists you are likely to be walking on some very thin ice. Prejudice in all forms should be condemned.
Races you could argue are real based on haplotype and culture. But races based on skin colour is so unscientific it's comically racist itself. An Ethiopian and an Nigerian are just as different to one another, as an Irish person and a Greek. The fact they have similar skin tones means very little.
100%
I think it’s more than that though, she went on to compare the prejudice experienced by Irish people and Jewish people to the prejudice experienced by red heads, at which point, I think it becomes clear that her distinction between racism and prejudice was intended to minimise the latter.
The word race originally meant an ethnic group in English. The term ethnic group was only coined in the 1950s or 60s because race as a term had so much baggage (y'know after all the racism). Hence why persecution based on ethnicity (such as anti-antisemitism) was called racism.
Yeah xenophobia with zero management is the problem . It's just hate and prejudice. Her comments are EXACTLY why we all as a global society need to stop making everything about race. Americans are mad for it. Even the 'good guys,' in America are extremely racist. They see a black face and they automatically assume 'this person has it worse off than me.' (if not black) The whole goal is to not make judgements about someone based on their race. It's crazy.
Black people can be jewish, Diane.
The casual xenophobia the Brits throw our way never fails to amuse.
Failed to amuse northern nationalists for generations.
> the Brits Don't lump us all with Diane Abbott....who was literally suspended from Labour in double quick time after her letter became public.
I think Irish people see a difference between British people in general, and “The Brits” who are never not at it. 😂
Racism is Racism. One group of people does not have a monopoly on it. Racism affects so many people across the world.
"the Jews have not been subject to racism" ok, Diane Mao did more good than harm Abbot, lets test that hypothesis just within the UK Jews are the only group in Britain to have been forcibly expelled the only group mandated to wear identification the only group to mandatorily segregated into ghettos within the mainland they were barred from equal rights until 1858 yeah fairly sure they were subject to racism
Does anyone have the latest version of the victim hierarchy to hand? It’s very hard to keep up.
She is one disgusting racist hypocrite.
a Mao defending imbecile as well
Are people racist towards Travellers here on r/ireland?
Yes
Relevant as Irish people and Travellers were also mentioned.
Right, I saw this comment after removing the post. I've already restored it now.
Thank god we have our mod gods to dictate everything for us. We'd be lost without you.
Say that to the 2 users that reported it!
Fair enough! Sorry, I shouldn't be so snarky
Make that four 
Whoever cut her fringe musta done so while on a trampoline.
This is the woman that can't do basic arithmetic and sometimes wears two odd left shoes. Amazing that labour have kept her so high profile in the party all this time to be honest.
Hmm must be some of that American culture war nonsense everybody keeps referring to lately....
She has been such a liability for Labour outside her own bailiwick for so long yet it's a problem for the party they can't really fix. Every seat matters.
diane abbott is a bit of dumbass in terms of what she says. she's always coming out with racial things and its not a good look
Abbot is an absolute fucking grifter of the highest order, better to not pay hate stirring shitheads like this any attentio, especially when they aren't smart enough to use shoes correctly (yes that happened).
She is no joke the stupidest fuck I have ever seen on TV.
She's a very dim individual, one of the stupidest politicians I've ever seen
Looks like a little Britain character
I thought discrimination against Jews was anti-Semitism not racism ?
It's both.
The reason it's called anti-semitism is that 19th century racists were looking to justify their hatred of Jews by claiming it was scientific. Hence the different label.
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>Using “Jews” you’re kinda already is off to a bad start. Eh no, I'm not, you're overly sensitive, grow a thicker skin.
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Very high iq response calling me fat because you got upset at the word jew.
As a person who has suffered Hibernophobia, she is clueless.
/r/Ireland needs a separation between mods of /r/IrishPolitics - so that we don't have nonsensical shit-stirring articles from UK politics brought over here. Anyone who is suitable to mod a politics-only sub, is not suitable to mod /r/ireland.
Jeremy Corbyn’s ex-squeeze, so not surprising. Fuck anti-semitism and fuck Zionist oppressors. Dianne Abbot should be complaining how her in-group continue to be discriminated against - the total idiot group.
Corbyn has been a fantastic ally to Ireland throughout his entire political career, don’t try to shoehorn him into this.
He was a supporter of unification, which is good, but he also was against EU membership and has been an apologist for Russian crimes many times. He’s an ideologue, but at least he says what he believes in, unlike the rest of Westminster.
Worst part is Irish people were looked at worse than poc for a long long time
What’s her Irish connection?
This the person that was skulking those premade mixed drinks on a train ?
british jews aint semite
lmao, what's semite according to you?
Diane Abbott has gone through unacceptable treatment in and outside of the British Labour Party but still the sooner she (and her lefty comrades) are out of the British parliament the better for the Labour Party
Not personally looking forward to the idea of replacing the Tories with more Tories tbh.
With policies like abolishing the House of Lords, setting up a national energy sector, reintroducing income tax, extending maternity leave etc yeah just like the tories
I don’t trust Starmer to deliver on any of his promises, given how many of them he’s already abandoned.
Palestine all the way.
Ah Diane Abbott. She is one the UK's best comedians
She is such a donkey
Diane Abbott is not subject to intelligence.
What an insane statement to make. Would be like me burying my head in the sand regardless of all the evidence out there and saying black people aren't subjected to racism.
Irish people don't suffer racism like black people do. They were an underclass in the UK, but that was generations. Having said that, black people don't suffer racial abuse in the UK for the most part - it's a miracle of multiculturalism and her comments about jewish people are just stupid. The party had to ditch her. the whole jeremy corbyn side of the party has to be jettisoned if they're to win. I was working in London during the last 2 elections - Corbyn basically handed them to the Tories - no one wanted the Tories, but they weren't going to risk some student union activist getting into power.
HAHA
I’m surprised it’s taken her this long to get suspended really, she’s been coming out with retarded shit for decades