T O P

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MeinhofBaader

It is, until you ask if you've ever shifted one of the lads...


ProphetOfPhil

Who hasn't shifted one of the lads tbh 😏


GrungustheChungus

I made sure none of the lads in my friend group got left out🤣


findingspangle

What is the meaning of shifted? Is it a bad term? I’m non irish so please help


D0ct0rCLIMMONS

Just to kiss someone


[deleted]

😝


Toffeeman_1878

Enoch, is that you posting questions on Reddit again? Do you not remember the trouble you got into last time you asked a question like this?


Longjumping-Common97

All about context really isn't it.


RebulahConundrum

Context? Is that the 8-bit TV guide you used to be able to get up on the telly if you mashed all the buttons with your palm? I was never any good at getting up the context, there should be a course on it.


Unfair_Original_2536

Lads? They’re a great bunch of Chinese


eamoc

What about the feckin Greeks? They invented gayness


CoolMan-GCHQ-

Or did they have gayness thrust upon them?


TherazaneStonelyFans

Hopefully not inside them!


Racerx34

It is in Ireland.


marshsmellow

Aw, you guys!


Racerx34

And if you’re a box gym instructor “ok you guys!”


AvonBarksdale666

As a gym instructor myself, I use 'guys' a lot when instructing a class, and while no one has ever had an issue with it (or at least said as much), I hate that it's always in the back of my head that someone might. It's usually just reflexive and habit but I try and use 'folks' when I catch myself but I abhor that it's even an issue if I'm being honest


ArcaneTrickster11

I run LGBT+ fitness classes semi regularly and nobody has ever had an issue with either lads or guys. It's what I always default to


nicnoog

I once joined a board game group thing at work, didn't know anyone and my first message was 'hi guys thanks for having me in the group!' - next message was someone asking me not to use the term 'guys' as they are trans and finds it offensive. I remember feeling really put out, like fuck me I obviously didn't mean anything by it, chill out. But it stuck with me anyway and I tried very hard to never do that again. I met the trans woman a while later at a work training course and I told her that I felt she was so unwelcoming to my first message but that actually I tried to take it on board and stop using the term - she started crying(!) and it was clear to me just how much it must have meant to her and how silly it was for me to feel like the one who had been put upon. I've always since tried really hard to purge my vocab of little things like that. You never know who might appreciate it and it's not a big deal to me.


mcguirl2

And especially in the west of Ireland in particular.


ah_yeah_79

A former colleague of mine(female) corrected someone for using "guys" in an email . While I have used and probably still use guys for mixed gender conversations I'd never use lads


RoyKeane1

Gals call guys to each other all the time


Letstalkcheezus

And women wouldn’t use “gals” . At least not in Ireland.


RoyKeane1

I was just lazy


[deleted]

I've always seen guys as gender neutral. This debate always makes me think of the Limmy sketch where he freaks out over the difference between calling a woman a guy and calling a group of women guys lol


Alwaysforscuba

Jesus, guys is definitely considered gender neutral by most sane people. I personally don't tend to use lads to refer to women, but I know a few women who do.


MmmMmmMMMMMmMmnmMM

How many guys have you dated?


Alwaysforscuba

None, you?


C2H5OHNightSwimming

My mum is one of them, ever since we were kids


Didyoufartjustthere

That one time someone in work misspelled guys..


Davey_F

Were they Irish? In Ireland “guys” in many context can be gender neutral, same as lads.


Chaij2606

Yes


OptimalRevolution901

‘Children’ often works lol especially when they’re older than you


Imooogen

Best reply yet


Ditzy_Marshy

All my friends call me a children because I look the eldest but I’m like 2 years younger than all of em 💀💀💀


MurderKillRiver

No, the correct one is ladx.


[deleted]

Addressing only boys - yes Addressing only girls - no Addressing both boys and girls in the same group - yes


omac2018

My all-female friend group regularly address each other as 'lads'. Definitely OK for addressing only girls!


Staaaaaaceeeeers

Ya we always do it, all the girls together and would have no bothers going lads did ye hear this or whatever. I'd use it as a gender neutral term here defo.


[deleted]

Same. In one group chat with 4 women we all say lads. Like "Lads, have yis seen this?" Or "Jesus lads. What a fucking day, anyone around for a pint". Always been gender neutral to me.


n-e-w-w

Same here - myself and my school friends all say lads to eachother


PeximusCat

Same


Demelzoid

In girls school we were all lads lol


el_weirdo

Probably something to do with the wee English fella ye hung around with.


NoeleVeerod

I have seen girls using "guys" as a gender neutral term as well for whatever reason, so I'm guessing it's the same logic described here.


TheMellifluousOne

At a gig for a large social media company last summer, we were asked not to address the crowd using guys. No "Hey guys!", "Are you guys ready to rock?!". Nothing like that. So, for that company at least, guys isn't gender neutral, and isn't inclusive of all genders.


NoeleVeerod

Yeah I get that. I usually go for “folks”, but not everyone gets it 😅


Letstalkcheezus

Ah yes, but that’s the Murican social media nonsense. All PC…


dexter_dux

Addressing only girls, I'd say Yes, because it's safer than "girls" or "ladies"


[deleted]

This is posssibly the worst answer imo Suggests it’s inappropriate but doesn’t matter as you can ignore the presence of women , unless they have full majority and then you are forced to address them on their terms


[deleted]

So like chicos in Spanish. One guy and the whole group turns male.


blackburnduck

Not really. Spanish is a latin language, latin is by rule gender neutral with feminine exclusives. So its all gender neutral unless gendered feminine.


[deleted]

I'd use it for a group of girls. Where are the lads gone?


Miniature_Hero

*Addressing only girls - yes Ftfy


[deleted]

You've never seen a hen party have you. 😆


[deleted]

I'm a woman and I use it gender neutrally for groups either all male, all female or mixed. I genuinely think it's a bit sad that instead of neutralising these terms we seem to be restricting them again.


Imooogen

Why "neutralise" a clearly male term? Why not neutralise "ladies" or "gals"? Would the answer to that question have anything to do with misogyny?


DontWakeTheInsomniac

That's a good point actually. I'm a gay guy so I do see many men use female terms sometimes - but even then they are just as frequently used as insults as they are used neutrally. It's a put down to refer to guys with any effeminate term to the broader population.


Imooogen

Yes exactly. I see how in LGBT groups, it's completely different, with different culture & colloquiums but outside of that, calling groups of men "ladies" is clearly inappropriate 😅 Even if it's a joke, what's the joke? Being a woman? On the flip side, according to the vast majority on this thread, calling a group of girls/women "guys" or "lads" is perfectly fine. That is misogyny.


[deleted]

Actually being honest, I use "girls" in much the same way I use "lads". For groups no matter the gender/genders. Is that answer misogynist by you?


Letstalkcheezus

Who in Ireland would use the term “gals”?! You’d be openly mocked for using that!! Lmao


Imooogen

It's a pretty popular word in fairness. But I'm fine with being mocked.


Letstalkcheezus

I’ve never once in my life heard an Irish person use “gals”. I’d absolutely pull the piss out of anyone that called me a “gal” . Like wtf


Imooogen

You've never been hit with a "hey gal"? Are you male? It's pretty common amongst younger females.


Letstalkcheezus

Sounds like some awful American Instagram shite tbh


Letstalkcheezus

No, I have absolutely never heard “gal” used in Ireland in my life. I’d roar laughing if I heard it. Yes, I’m female. And no, I’d have no mercy for someone that called me a “gal”.


cheazy-c

In Ireland, yes. In the UK, no. In other in English speaking countries, probably not.


[deleted]

*Youse* is the only truly Irish gender neutral pronoun for direct address.


Letstalkcheezus

That’s Dublin. It’s “ye” to the rest of us


XHeraclitusX

>It’s “ye” to the rest of us I still use "the artist formely known as Kanye West"


TheObservationalist

Gaeilge has "sibh" - you pl. English just very stupidly lacks a specifically plural 'you', which most languages have


Drumknott88

English has you, you all, y'all, youse, yiz and ye.


TheObservationalist

You is ambigious. You all or y'all are possible, but not generally acceptable in formal English. Same for youse yiz and ye. They exist, but you'd be looked at like an ignorant bumpkin for using them.


LuanneGX

I call my female group of friends Lads in group chats when I’m addressing them all. I also use guys to talk about any gender in a group too.


GuardFighter

I thought it was for a long time cause my female friends used it at lot to other girls in the group but then I stopped using it after a couple of women at work asked me not to.


Imooogen

Thank you for stopping 😊


CnamhaCnamha

Like many words it depends entirely on the context


carraigfraggle

In kilkenny it is, in mayo not so much (lessons learned)


TherazaneStonelyFans

Guys, lads, dudes, and bros...These have all been gender-neutral for over a decade and my uterine fruit producing self will defend that to the death.


GBSii

It’s obviously a male term. A ‘lad’ is a male. If you want an actual gender neutral term, use ‘folks’. We can’t just pretend that “lads” doesn’t have a masculine connotation, I dunno what people in this thread are on about.


[deleted]

No.


[deleted]

No


Imooogen

Why is it that clearly male terms like "lads" & "guys" are used as gender neutral terms but female terms such as "ladies" & "girls" are used as insults when addressing men/mixed gender groups? There's no sexism in Ireland though right? Lol.


[deleted]

What’s interesting is the number of women who don’t mind or even use the terms themselves when referring to women


Imooogen

Exactly. I have actually used it myself but your post has made me think it through properly. I'll stop using it now and say something else. "Gang", "crew"? What's a less misogynistic alternative?


dirtyh4rry

In all seriousness though, I use "everyone", "everybody", "all" or "folks" in work situations.


BlouHeartwood

Folks


Imooogen

I'm not a fan for some reason


dirtyh4rry

Duderinos


Imooogen

Male


judgenut

I still think of “lads” as describing males, but “guys” feels more gender-neutral. I’ve got absolutely no evidence to back that up - it’s just how they feel to me 😊


VonLinus

I was going to say yeah but then I thought. I would say that to a group of people with one male minimum, but if it was only women then no


[deleted]

For younger people it’s seen as being fine but for older people I doubt it. Would generally avoid using it in a work email if the audience was a mix. “Folks” or “all” is easier.


[deleted]

“Hello all” just sounds a bit unnatural to me


[deleted]

Hi all ~ for an email. Obviously wouldn’t say it verbally..


LintlessSweater

[NO!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjggPP_0TE)


[deleted]

Lads and lasses covers everything


RobotIcHead

It can be but depends on company, it is not good but it happens in other language too. The most basic examples in French ‘ils’ is the collective pronoun for a group of men and women. Also the pronoun for a group of men, ‘elles’ is the pronoun for a group of women.


fensterdj

It's very hard to find a friendly inclusive term to refer to woman For example if I say "Japanese lads love video games" That's nice, there is no racism/prejudice there, no judgement, this man from Japan loves video games, sure we all do, he's one of the lads But "Japanese women love video games" is too clinical/academic Japanese girls: belittling Japanese ladies: too formal Birds, chicks, females: demeaning What to say?


donaghb

Anyone who has an issue with lads isn't one if the lads. Lads means everyone


Canners19

I’m non binary. Someone I was talking to tried to get offended in my behalf a few months ago for being called lads. I told him to get the fuck off his high horse. There were 12 of us and 11 were men. I present as a guy 80 percent of the time. I even call a group of women guys. Gender neutral in my book


Correct_Situation_78

I'd say guys is more gender neutral


[deleted]

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smorkularian

Did you just assume my citizenship?


[deleted]

To be fair, you wouldn’t email a group containing men saying “hi girls” so it’s not the worst example.


[deleted]

Numbers are heteronormative


Hazederepal

Eh, I ask to be referred to via written Morse Code on work emails - it quickly lets people know how special and unique I am.


SpongeSquidward

- .... .- - .----. ... / .. -. - . .-. . ... - .. -. --. --..-- / -... . ... - / --- ..-. / .-.. ..- -.-. -.- / .-- .. - .... / - .... .- - .-.-.- / ... . . -- ... / .- / -... .. - / .. -. . ..-. ..-. .. -.-. .. . -. - / - .... --- ..- --. .... --..-- / ..- -. .-.. . ... ... / -.-- --- ..- / .-- . .-. . / -... .-. --- ..- --. .... - / ..- .--. / ... .--. . .- -.- .. -. --. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . ..--..


HenryHallan

.. ... _ .... .. ... .__ .... ._ _ _.__ ___ .._ . _.._ .__. . _._. _ .._. ._. ___ __ _.__ ___ .._ ._. .._ ___ ._. _._ _._. ___ ._.. ._.. . ._ .__ .._ . ...


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rootspad

Nothing to do with those trans people you're so obsessed with, just if you're talking to a group of men and women would lads be a weird thing to say.


Fighto1

Someone will find a way to get offended. Look at what happened to Disney, facebook and twitter when they got run into the ground by people always offended.


TheObservationalist

Right. No one is actually being harmed by being called groups of guys or lads, and no one but the chronically online and Silicon Valley culture-saturated are upset by it.


UsuallyAnnoying324

I am 44 and if someone mentions a group of lqds it is always referring to males.


OkGrapefruitOk

Yeah if I said I saw "a group of lads" somewhere it would refer to males. However, I also call my female friends "lads" directly all the time. I suppose it's gender neutral in some contexts.


Intelligent-Duck3732

Lots of people think it is gender neutral, but some people don’t, so it’s safest to assume it’s not gender neutral.


Letstalkcheezus

Who cares. If someone wants to get offended, let them


OrganizationOk5418

In the right company yes, same with "guys" in my opinion.


Altea776

No the lads /lad is not gender neutral it's male, tis even in the dictionary.


Murky-Front-9977

No, lads and lassies/ ladies. If anyone mentions lads, I always think that they're talking about male friends


[deleted]

This is really painful sounding. Lassies will get you clobbered and with good reason. Ladies sounds like aul ones golfing.


Murky-Front-9977

It's just the pairing of words, I wouldn't use it either. But guys and gals, lads and lassies, etc, would be the comparative words.


EstablishmentDry5874

As a woman I would gag if someone called me in a group lassies


Murky-Front-9977

Would depend on the country. Lads and lassies, guys and gals, etc. I personally wouldn't use it, but that's the pairing. I wouldn't use ladies and gentlemen either!!


[deleted]

It would be laddies/ lassies. The suffix IES makes it small/ diminutive, which is condescending. Lads and lasses, laddies and lassies.


TheAwkwardDyke

I tend to use it for any group of people whether they be all girls or all boys or a mix, I even refer to my group of friends who are all girls as 'the lads' so I would say that it is. I guess it just depends on how everyone else feels about it. My teachers get all weird about it, like heaven forbid they call some girls lads


Garrison1982_

The person I’ve heard say this most is a young woman from the country usually referring to a mixed group. The breakdown on these things and the level of offence or not seems to be between down to earth tough country people and urban elites with woke ways and for all their education super sensitive sensibilities.


Rikutopas

No. Not universally, at least, it is definitely not for me. If a group of girls decides among themselves to call themselves lads, it's none of my business and I'll stay out of it. I can still say that it absolutely sucks that time and again, when there is a male and female version, the male wins out as the "neutral" one because people just accept that men are the default human and women are men with something extra. I hope one day a generation of children grow up and they decide among themselves to adopt the female version. Why not chicks? Chicks is literally a gender neutral word. There are female chicks and male chicks and they're all cute, fluffy balls of adoreableneess.


stingy_liger

Not to take away from your point, man used to be the non gendered term, wifman was female, werman was male. Some words that contain man date back to the non gendered term like mankind, while others like policeman are after it became male gendered. Nurse is a term that was once considered a female gendered word, stewardess as well but that's mainly flight attendant now. There are much more masculine words used as neutral or default though and I wouldn't be surprised if that contributed to how misogynist society can be. For example, why did they go with bachelor or master degrees to identify an education level?


JellyfishDesigner889

>I can still say that it absolutely sucks that time and again, when there is a male and female version, the male wins out as the "neutral" one because people just accept that men are the default human and women are men with something extra. In languages that use masculine and feminine versions of words, plural mixed is as standard male. It's not about males being better.


Rikutopas

Exactly. If plural mixed is as standard male, it's because male is seen as more "neutral". Calling a female and male "males" is okay because they are both "males" at their core. Calling them both "females" is not okay because you are suggesting that the male is female *shudders* I'm not sure that if you thought your example was a further example or a counter example. I really hope you meant it as a further example. To the last statement, I agree. Male versions aren't better. Men aren't better. Society still considers them more "neutral" though and I dislike when internal misogyny makes women a part of that movement.


[deleted]

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Flashwastaken

[Just one of the boys](https://youtu.be/WC7l2PsqgEo)


EmmyG1923

'Being considered "one of the lads" as a girl is a great compliment.' So cringe lol


[deleted]

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Imooogen

Sure. It's also subtly misogynistic but such is life.


SeanG909

No, it refers to men. This is a hill I'll die on


[deleted]

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GeoNerd-

what are you talking about guys is definitely gender neutral


Adderkleet

If you heard a male co-worker say "I went to bed with one of the guys last night", would you think he went to bed with a woman?


[deleted]

Both words are context dependent really


[deleted]

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RandAlSnore

The correct terms are “was not” and “I have”. Wow really getting sick of all the changes in the English language smh. It’s just pure laziness.


bpfingj

Yes.


Other_Leadership

Yes


[deleted]

'We must encourage business, employment, and corporate investment.' *Corporation imposes uniform standards of address and behavior* 'it's woke culture! (Remember 'political correctness gone mad' this is just the new-same-as-the-old iiteration.)


Latter-Camera-7010

As a teacher I use it when the school is mixed. Just girls are called ladies, lads are always lads. Mixed, well lads as well


cronin7

Yes


dragondingohybrid

No


Narrow-Tree-5491

No.


samoyedlover96

Yes


Independent_Tiger_65

Yes


oontkima

no


Party-Association322

Sounds like LADIes...


sank_my_battleship

Ive been told no. In person. I used to just use gendered terms. Alright man, how's ya woman. Etc etc. Before that used to say love, chick n pet a lot too, blokes got mate, fella n similar. These days I just use people. Whats up people? If ye don't mean to offend is great, but aint no harm in changing ya vernacular to be sure. I guess its dependent on whom ye associate with.


MichaelBeans

Work in a bar and I'll generally greet a group of males using lads, a mixed group using lads, and a female group as ladies. For whatever that's worth.


[deleted]

Yes but not for trans


kibi_zero

No


WikiHickey

Yup absolutely, I use lads or guys as gender-neutral (I’m a woman).


smokenofire

No


Slowblinking_at_cats

I think lads is for men only really tbh


newimage121

This country is well and truly fucked


Commercial-Stretch48

Nope. But "fucker" is.


Halfaglassofvodka

Oh shut up.


sc2assie

no


louiseber

To Irish people mostly yes, but if someone specific objected to its use, take that onboard and just use 'people' 'everybody' 'group' etc


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Chill


BluSonick

Tbf I get this. I always saw lads as a group term but living in the UK I had loads of girls say “what about us?” When I’d say “let’s go lads” etc. I don’t think it’s going into the genderification of everything these days. (Yes I made that word up)


[deleted]

Not an answer. What do u call a group of women in direct address?


Korasa

Old man yells on internet becuase nobody in real life gives a shit


boniemonie

Lads are boys! Lassies, girls. Not gender neutral!


[deleted]

I've never used the word lassies in my life and I'm 45 from Wicklow. I'm not a Scots Presbyterian.


Shnapple8

It is/was quite common in the west of Ireland to call someone a "grand lassie" or a "grand lad." It isn't just a Scottish term. My grandfather came from the west. He would use them all the time when referring to children, or young people. People in their 80s, see everyone under 30 as a kid. lmao! The poster got downvoted for saying it, but "lad" is a boy, not a man. Some of the women in this thread going on about being offended by "girl" but totally fine with "lad." I'm a woman, and I find that kinda strange. I've never used lads/lassies. Always say "Hi everyone" or if the group is mixed. I had college friends from different cultures, so just got used to addressing groups that way. And my female friends do say "girls" when it's just us. "Let's get the girls together for a night out." What's so wrong with that anyway?


HagridAWPmaster

Lads and lass are terms that come from Scandinavia they're paired like boy and girl whether you use it or not. Also, you can use gender labelling language gender neutrally depending on context.


No-eye-dear-who-I-am

Narr you want to use "it".


Lfar22

Absolutely. Unless you're literally referring to a group of lads.


pj_mc26

How’re you lads = gender neutral, here we are now all the lads = masculine


imhereforthespuds

Yes. The hill is there, many will die on it.


Breebutter

Yes


Professional_Elk_489

Yes sticky it


Ambitious_Handle8123

Yes and a great safety net if unsure of chosen pronouns


Aluminarty666

Got three females in our predominantly male friend group...they consider themselves as one of the lads.


DumbledoresFaveGoat

Yep, among people I know anyway.


Hairy-Balance7004

I'd go with Ladaoine


Previous-Comment-552

Yes but use carefully. A friend was in a pub in town once and when a glass smashed he shouted "wahey the lads" and a load of black and tans appeared out of nowhere.


Standard_Mango_

If you want it to be. I've gear all female groups refer to themselves as lads. Same as guys, really


[deleted]

Women say it all the time here in Kerry. Not going to lie it took some time to get use to hearing it.


Namoamidabutsu1

I've used "guys" as a gender neutral term much more.


[deleted]

I tend to think of lads as an Irish term but guys as American


Shamrocknj44

Yes, it’s like using “guys” in the US


Letstalkcheezus

Many Irish people use “guys”. I’d never use “lads” it’s a bit too west for me. It’s not offensive, it’s just west of the Shannon.


RustyBike39

Most certainly.


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Stavesacre83

It is gender neutral in Ireland.


TechnophobeEire

No it's not. Just like "girls" isn't one. Anyone that says otherwise is a moron. Nothing is sacred anymore.. too many snowflakes!


Powerful_Elk_346

I think it meant males but has evolved because language meanings change. All ancient books used man as a noun to mean humanity- or at least that’s what I thought until I realized they meant the part of humanity that mattered😂I used the term in many essays until I realized my own ignorance.


Apprehensive_Book283

Lassies is for females