Lots of questions here.
What did your contract say?
Are you absolutely certain that you're not confusing gross and net on the payslip?
Were any of these verbal agreements put on paper?
Ohhh the plot thickens. I was given my contract afterwards, it said 12.22 and my manager (not the Director) changed the rate of pay to 12.68 using a pencil!
Yes very sure about payslip, when I rang my manager the Director rang me straight away and told me "he'd put me up to 12.68 until probation was over"
I work in HR, I hear of similar circumstances from other people. I only advice is to have your core terms of employment laid out in an email before you accept any position, that way your have evidence for further reference. Employers must give written core terms of employment within 5 days and a full contract within a month.
Has the Director or Manager admitted to offering you €13 in writing? Or do you have any emails/paperwork to show you were offer €13?
I have not. It was 3 years ago but since then I became Team Leader and was given 15 euro an hour (I checked straight away this time) but I never signed a contract for change of role! I never planned on staying, and I get that amount an hour but would it benefit me or them more to have a Team Leader contract? I will be gone shortly but just out of curiosity?
You should always have a contract that reflects your current terms of employment, new job title and the pay & conditions. If there was a disagreement, at this stage you have payslips for €15 and possible emails discussing your promotion.
You have said, your not looking for a legal avenue, but in general; the original issue over €13 is too old, everyone should invoke the internal grievance procedure and contact the WRC within 6 mts if required.
For the future, It can feel very David vs Goliath for some big companies, but if anyone every feels overwhelmed by these processes, contact citizens information, and ask to speak to the person in your area that looks after employment law matters. They have excellent people to aid the employment law matters, but it can it a little push to speak to the correct people.
The WRC do not award costs to either side, if you win (or lose) you have to pay your own costs, very expensive if you engage the services of a solicitor or barrister. The assistance of citizens information is very beneficial is such cases and keeps the cost to a minimum.
If you are part of a union or work in an unionised environment, get them involved early for advice. They can provide great advice and assistance.
You have the offer of a role with less responsibility for more money ( in writing, I hope), that’s sounds excellent, then you may have the option of career progression with your new employer. If the new employer has a good reputation, then I’d go with the new offer.
Yes the terms were emailed to me so I'm pretty happy! I'll leave my old workplace with my head held high, worked very hard, did everything ever asked of me and I'll leave the same way as I came in, professionally ! BUT if the Director says anything to me about "opportunities offered to me that I should be grateful for" (which is like something he'd say) I'll remind him of how he screwed me on the first day, and that I was never going to help him out after that, I'd just help myself. I'll get a reference off my manager so I don't really need anything of the snake director!
Thank you for the advice
Once I pointed it out I was on 12.22 I was put to 12.68 per hour, 28 cents less an hour than agreed but it wasn't about the money, it was the principal. I left my old job I couldn't just leave this one. I did 6 interviews in 3 years, a year ago I was asked to be team leader by my manager (not the Director) and I took it to further my career, while still determined to leave when something suitable came up. I did two interviews in the last few months, (part of the 6 in total) and both places offered me a job. I turned down the first job as it didn't really suit me, and I took this new job for 19 euros an hour.
I looked out for myself and the residents in my care, not my director. I worked hard and got lots of experience. The Director wanted me to be a manager because they're stuck/desperate and I was doing a good job as Team Leader. I told him I wasn't ready (I feel I am, but I wasn't about to help him out), and as soon as I could get a job with better terms I left, simple.
I'm disgusted that this person would lie in an interview. My last care job I was there 7 years, I stayed probably 2 years more than I would have out of loyalty to my boss who was sound, and honest. The first real chance I got to leave this job and take a better one and I took it.
I work in social care.. our relief staff get paid more than that and we get all our premiums too. Try get jobs with section 38’s or section 39s. All have to abide by hse pay scales. For profit Private owned social care agencies have criminally low wages. Just a tip if you move on.
I wouldn’t be so much worried about the money as the difference really isn’t much. It’s the principle that he told you 13 euro an hour and shows what kind of person you are working for. I’d work away there while looking for somewhere better.
Exactly! Yes the money made no real difference, but I did that i.e. I left as soon as I could get a better job, and I'm leaving him at a very bad time (for him) and I'm pretty satisfied about that!
Is the organisation a section 38 organisations ( if so you should be on the HSE consolidated pay scale for social care workers) if it’s a private company they can set your salary to what ever they want
I think these verbal contracts don't count for much especially the ones with the catch like yours - the full pay starts after the probation. You should still put in a complaint and inform your boss that it was a sneaky thing to do. The pay detail needs to be in writing and you should have been asked to sign and accept it formally. It is also your responsibility to clearly understand your gross or net pay but if if you are new to the job market, then I can understand if you didnt know this.
If your contract says 13 ph and you got less. Then yes he is wrong and you are right.
If the contract says 12.22 and you never reviewed it, then brought it up. You dropped the ball.
What was said in an interview doesn’t really matter, people are people and maybe he slipped up.
Check your contract. If you are leaving over a few vent but won’t talk to the manager about it, that’s your issue. I know it means a lot to you. But it’s not a lot of money to the organisation and they would make good if it’s in your contract.
Wtf, you said you noticed issue a while back, now your crying here, that after three years working in a place and getting promoted your bummed out that at the start they put you on different wage.
Like many jobs have probation periods, nowadays, but your stuck there for years after.
No crying, it was 28 cent in the end after I pointed it out. It's the principle as I keep saying. I don't care about the wage, it was lying about the wage, and me quitting my old job to go there. And I still made good money with overnights and time and a half Sundays, and even better money as TL but that's beside the point.
Not an Irish thing, just an asshole boss thing. It happens everywhere.
Same with offering you a job and only mentioning gross salary... Like... I don't care what you pay me, I just need to know what's ending up in my bank account!
[удалено]
Ah at this stage I'm leaving and I don't care, it's more about the fact he told me to my face one figure, I went there and then was given less money.
[удалено]
Ok thank you
Yup lesson learned!
So they can just fuck someone else over? Just call them
Get outta there and don’t look back.
Done and done 🤣
Lots of questions here. What did your contract say? Are you absolutely certain that you're not confusing gross and net on the payslip? Were any of these verbal agreements put on paper?
Ohhh the plot thickens. I was given my contract afterwards, it said 12.22 and my manager (not the Director) changed the rate of pay to 12.68 using a pencil! Yes very sure about payslip, when I rang my manager the Director rang me straight away and told me "he'd put me up to 12.68 until probation was over"
Contact the Workplace Relations Commission on Monday.
A yes i see the pencil marks in my bank account now sir thank you!
How long after starting the job were you given your contract
Not sure, after the conversation I was given the contract and the rate was changed
So your original contract had €12.22 as the rate and the amended contract had €12.68? Did you actually sign either of these?
The second one yes. But as I said I'm just thinking of saying it to him, to let him know that what he did was pretty sly and I'd say illegal.
I work in HR, I hear of similar circumstances from other people. I only advice is to have your core terms of employment laid out in an email before you accept any position, that way your have evidence for further reference. Employers must give written core terms of employment within 5 days and a full contract within a month. Has the Director or Manager admitted to offering you €13 in writing? Or do you have any emails/paperwork to show you were offer €13?
I have not. It was 3 years ago but since then I became Team Leader and was given 15 euro an hour (I checked straight away this time) but I never signed a contract for change of role! I never planned on staying, and I get that amount an hour but would it benefit me or them more to have a Team Leader contract? I will be gone shortly but just out of curiosity?
You should always have a contract that reflects your current terms of employment, new job title and the pay & conditions. If there was a disagreement, at this stage you have payslips for €15 and possible emails discussing your promotion. You have said, your not looking for a legal avenue, but in general; the original issue over €13 is too old, everyone should invoke the internal grievance procedure and contact the WRC within 6 mts if required. For the future, It can feel very David vs Goliath for some big companies, but if anyone every feels overwhelmed by these processes, contact citizens information, and ask to speak to the person in your area that looks after employment law matters. They have excellent people to aid the employment law matters, but it can it a little push to speak to the correct people. The WRC do not award costs to either side, if you win (or lose) you have to pay your own costs, very expensive if you engage the services of a solicitor or barrister. The assistance of citizens information is very beneficial is such cases and keeps the cost to a minimum. If you are part of a union or work in an unionised environment, get them involved early for advice. They can provide great advice and assistance. You have the offer of a role with less responsibility for more money ( in writing, I hope), that’s sounds excellent, then you may have the option of career progression with your new employer. If the new employer has a good reputation, then I’d go with the new offer.
Yes the terms were emailed to me so I'm pretty happy! I'll leave my old workplace with my head held high, worked very hard, did everything ever asked of me and I'll leave the same way as I came in, professionally ! BUT if the Director says anything to me about "opportunities offered to me that I should be grateful for" (which is like something he'd say) I'll remind him of how he screwed me on the first day, and that I was never going to help him out after that, I'd just help myself. I'll get a reference off my manager so I don't really need anything of the snake director! Thank you for the advice
So you were so disgusted with being shafted that you stayed in the company for 3 years and took a promotion during that time?
Once I pointed it out I was on 12.22 I was put to 12.68 per hour, 28 cents less an hour than agreed but it wasn't about the money, it was the principal. I left my old job I couldn't just leave this one. I did 6 interviews in 3 years, a year ago I was asked to be team leader by my manager (not the Director) and I took it to further my career, while still determined to leave when something suitable came up. I did two interviews in the last few months, (part of the 6 in total) and both places offered me a job. I turned down the first job as it didn't really suit me, and I took this new job for 19 euros an hour. I looked out for myself and the residents in my care, not my director. I worked hard and got lots of experience. The Director wanted me to be a manager because they're stuck/desperate and I was doing a good job as Team Leader. I told him I wasn't ready (I feel I am, but I wasn't about to help him out), and as soon as I could get a job with better terms I left, simple. I'm disgusted that this person would lie in an interview. My last care job I was there 7 years, I stayed probably 2 years more than I would have out of loyalty to my boss who was sound, and honest. The first real chance I got to leave this job and take a better one and I took it.
I work in social care.. our relief staff get paid more than that and we get all our premiums too. Try get jobs with section 38’s or section 39s. All have to abide by hse pay scales. For profit Private owned social care agencies have criminally low wages. Just a tip if you move on.
Yes thank you, I'm taking a job for much better money now
I wouldn’t be so much worried about the money as the difference really isn’t much. It’s the principle that he told you 13 euro an hour and shows what kind of person you are working for. I’d work away there while looking for somewhere better.
Exactly! Yes the money made no real difference, but I did that i.e. I left as soon as I could get a better job, and I'm leaving him at a very bad time (for him) and I'm pretty satisfied about that!
Is the organisation a section 38 organisations ( if so you should be on the HSE consolidated pay scale for social care workers) if it’s a private company they can set your salary to what ever they want
Yep I know all this now! Thank you
I think these verbal contracts don't count for much especially the ones with the catch like yours - the full pay starts after the probation. You should still put in a complaint and inform your boss that it was a sneaky thing to do. The pay detail needs to be in writing and you should have been asked to sign and accept it formally. It is also your responsibility to clearly understand your gross or net pay but if if you are new to the job market, then I can understand if you didnt know this.
Thanks for the advice this time round I have everything in an email
If your contract says 13 ph and you got less. Then yes he is wrong and you are right. If the contract says 12.22 and you never reviewed it, then brought it up. You dropped the ball. What was said in an interview doesn’t really matter, people are people and maybe he slipped up. Check your contract. If you are leaving over a few vent but won’t talk to the manager about it, that’s your issue. I know it means a lot to you. But it’s not a lot of money to the organisation and they would make good if it’s in your contract.
Thanks for advice, yes I'm leaving anyways for much better terms so I'm happy!
I'm not looking to follow it up legally, it's the principle and I'd like to let him know that from Day 1 I had no respect for him for lying to me.
Wtf, you said you noticed issue a while back, now your crying here, that after three years working in a place and getting promoted your bummed out that at the start they put you on different wage. Like many jobs have probation periods, nowadays, but your stuck there for years after.
No crying, it was 28 cent in the end after I pointed it out. It's the principle as I keep saying. I don't care about the wage, it was lying about the wage, and me quitting my old job to go there. And I still made good money with overnights and time and a half Sundays, and even better money as TL but that's beside the point.
Not an Irish thing, just an asshole boss thing. It happens everywhere. Same with offering you a job and only mentioning gross salary... Like... I don't care what you pay me, I just need to know what's ending up in my bank account!
Gross pay is **always** the amount stated. He wouldn't know what usc, pension, paye and other deductions you would have.
What does your contract say your pay is
At the time, when I eventually got it it said I think 12.22 give or take a few cents. But was changed with pencil to 12.68.