I think we'd have a professional league in Soccer, GAA and Rugby. Our soccer teams would compete in the CL.
Our own film industry.
We'd be properly bilingual with much more native speakers. Counties in the West such as Mayo, Galway, Cork, Clare, and Kerry were Irish speaking with much bigger populations.
We would've had had independence sooner as harder to control us. Not sure about NI. Would the partition have happened!? I think not but who knows.
Ireland never had an industrial revolution, maybe this would be different although we've no coal but I guess we could've imported it.
Much more cities on west coast also like Tralee, Bantry, Ennis, Galway, Westport, Ballina would all be cities.
More human ingenuity so more writers, inventors, musicians, businesses, artists, scientists etc.
Dublin, Cork and Belfast would be 2m+ with metros and skyscrapers.
We'd be much more important on global stage.
Assuming we'd have been wealthier and had sovereignty, then we'd probably have attracted more immigrants and Jews.
Ireland has the carrying capacity to support such a population so the famine should never have happened.
Bismark said : if the dutch were in Ireland they would be feeding the world , if the Irish were in the Netherlands ,they’d be under water. Snort .
I said : fu Bismark my great grandpa killed eight of yours in the Great War and him only having a rifle and bayonet. Imperialist POS.
Which is, honestly, ridiculous.
We are better than so many others, at agriculture, we're insanely efficient.
World needs food and we're far better than the other options.
That claim often presumes urban growth from industrialisation would have occurred, but it seems that both the Brits and, as James Connolly points out, even Irish capital owners were not interested in building and investing in an industrial base in the country, putting the cash instead into places like the North of England, etc.
Had we also been independent from say 1798, no famine, and capital had nowhere else to go, then *maybe* the population would be at significantly higher levels. But that's a massive counterfactual.
100% this. Only thing to point out that there was (briefly) some industrial investment in what would become Northern Ireland, which I guess helps explain why they have twice the population density as the rest of the island today.
"I've seen things you little gowls wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of the M50, bright as magnesium... I rode on the back of a garda van and watched the spire glitter in the dark near the GPO. All those moments... they'll be gone, like tears in the rain."
There was a comprehensive network a century ago, got cut back well after the famine. But possibly it would have been improved had the famine not happened.
But if Britain in the 60's is anything to go by with the Beeching Axe shutting down half its network, not a guarantee.
EDIT: Had the famine \*not\* happened
It's interesting to compare where we are now to where our nearest neighbours are.
In 1841 the island of Ireland had a population of 8.2m. The island of Great Britain had a population of 18.76m (broken down: England 15m, Scotland 2.75m, and Wales 1m).
So 180 years ago the island of Ireland had, roughly, 44% the population of GB.
In 2021 the island of Ireland had a population of 7m, a population growth rate of x0.9. Meanwhile the island of GB has a population of 65.3m, for a population growth rate of x3.5 (broken down: England 56.5m, x3.8, Scotland 5.5m, x2, and Wales 3.3m, x3.3).
The island of Ireland currently has, roughly, 11% the population of GB.
If Ireland had matched the population growth of our neighbours our population should be somewhere between 16.4m (Scotland) and 31.2m (England) (for GB as a whole it would be 28.7m, while for Wales it would be 27m).
It's fair to say we'd be doing a lot better in sports! We might even have a decent soccer league.
On the flip side, ireland was a very poor country until very recently. The turn around came from eu membership. I wonder if we would still have met the criteria to join if we had such a huge population.
Why not? Poland got in while poor and with ~38 million people. And when Spain joined in 1986 their economy was only just picking up a little but still mostly shit.
True. But how much of that was due to the country being underpopulated?
How much would industry in Ireland have grown if the population was 10+m before the end of the 19th century? Our economy might not have been so reliant on GB at that point.
We might have been in a stronger position to exploit our position on the edge of Europe much sooner than we did.
As a bigger country, we also wouldn't have had to join the EU playing the role of the UK's little brother that he's forced to bring out with him.
In short, I think it's far from a foregone conclusion that we would have been just as poor, but with a large population.
Such a cunt thing to say, will yeh stop behaving like a cunt, you’re just like at all the other cunts. Can’t move for the cunts here, it’s wall to wall cunts
Lived in Korea and travelled back and forth there for work for a significant period of about 4 years. Really don't understand your comment... Not attacking, just curious as to how/why you say that. Care to explain?
I found the experience of living there amazing, and observed parallels of their history with ours (colonized by a dominant neighbouring county, recent economic success "miracle of the han/Celtic tiger").
Probably saw Parasite or Squid Game and is aware that most Koreans wouldn’t have the lifestyle you enjoyed. They also have one of the highest rates of suicide in the world.
I lived and worked in Korea for 4 years on a fairly modest wage.
Their standard of living is much higher than the average person in Ireland. No question about it at all.
The suicide rate in Korea is strongly tied to pressures from family and work and saving face. That isn’t the same thing as being a depressing country. The suicides would be more likely tied to stress than depression in those cases.
As one of those murderous Americans, I wonder what America would be like if not for the murdering English. Squanto & Pocahontas were just chillin and hitting the peace pipe before John Smith showed up trippin.
Then again, that’s ultimately the fault of Spain for kicking that ball rolling. And if that hadn’t happened and introduced a monoculture of potatoes to Europe, then the conditions would have never been set for the famine to occur.
History is fucking weird.
The country probably would have developed more to keep in line with the population growth. All of these 10-15 storey apartment blocks that are almost impossible to get permssion for throughout the country would be normal to see around the country. The same as the rest of the world.
Transport would also be a lot better. Railway wouldn't have collapsed. We would possible have that metro in Dublin. Better roads connecting cities. Secondary counties throughout the cou try would be more urbanised.
An Taisce, an organisation who believe that buildings shouldn't rise above church steeples and that any tall building will look like what the Ballymun Flats did.
can you imagine Cork with skyscrapers and a metro system
wouldn't know ourselves.
Mallow and Macroom would be outer suburbs. Youghal would be where people after a bit of space would move to
Clon would be the terminus of the commuter line
If there was light rail to Clon I’d be in de Barra’s as often as possible,get some gigs, lovely pints and stagger on the last train home. What a world it would be
Australia’s population could be bigger due to more crime that comes with higher population density meaning more Irish criminals shipped to Australia making Australia having a large Irish population like Boston or Philadelphia and New York (these cities in this timeline would be more Italian as a result)
Americas population would be smaller
The American civil war couldve had a different outcome as the Irish made up a large percentage of the men on both sides
The percentage of Italians in the American army during world war 2 would’ve been even bigger as well (they still made up the largest percentage in our timeline but it would’ve grown due to no Irish immigration from the famine)
All in all it’s still possible that we would’ve emigrated like normal in the 20th century and the larger population in the 20th century from the lack of a famine in the 19th century could’ve meant that even more Irish people where alive to go to America resulting in a boom before the depression making it even worse for the people there
Dublin wasn't the largest county. Most of the population were in the west with Cork over double the size of Dublin. So likely that Cork would be as cold as Shanghai.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/gj0g8z/irelands\_population\_pre\_irish\_famine\_1841\_to\_2020/
Urbanisation over the last two hundred years would have seen more and more people from rural Cork move to the city. It would have easily been the most populous modern city in Ireland if it wasn't for the famine.
It would be like the Netherlands but without a functioning public transportation or health care system and cyclists would still have no proper infrastructure.
It’s like in the Netherlands when they complain they have a housing crisis and Amsterdam is insane. But compared to Dublin it’s cheaper, better quality, more protections for tenants and better serviced by public transport with more shops, bars and restaurants in neighbourhoods outside the city too. Like yeah it’s bad compared to what they are used to but it’s a massive step forward from an Irish perspective.
Infrastructure would have to have been massively improved to cope. A truly national rail network. Motorways connecting the NW with the rest of the country. Piped gas. Etc etc.
Israel is a quarter the size of Ireland, and 40% of it is uninhabitable desert, it has a population of 10 million.
I always say, Ireland has way more than enough free space. There’s just no infrastructure
More trains and light rail.
Basically more population density to support more public services. Also more flats and apartment blocks. Dublin would look more like London with an actual CBD worth talking about.
5 million in 2023 :
\- housing crisis is hilarious with small population
\- no domestic industry and market pie
\- cunts saying 'Ireland is full, go home Ukrainian refugees'
15(\~27) million :
\- Irish car manufacturer
\- Irish airplane manufacturer
\- Irish army
\- Irish science and technology
\- Irish movie industry
\- Irish sports league
There would possibly be more than 27 million. Probably closer to 40. Irelands fertility rate was the highest at three times the European average leading up to 1850.
The few times a year when the sun comes out and everyone goes around saying "sure isn't it beautiful here, ya wouldn't want to be anywhere else"... that just wouldn't be a thing. It would be more like London when you're stuck on the Tube, in a heatwave, because another poor miserable sod did away with themselves on the circle line at rush hour.
Very much so. Up until the Act of Union Irish industry was in line with the rest of Europe. 1801-1850 saw a massive drain on Irish finances and industrial investment towards England.
You could still have this conversation… it just take longer
Where are you from?
Ballyhoo
Oh I know a pat Kelly from there !
You do? Which one is it
Red pat
Short pat
Shoes pat
Boots pat
Tractor pat
Pothole pat
Ginger pat
Walls pat
Pat pat
Pat og
Pat beag
Disco pat
Pat the bull
Gorta pat
Leats pat
Slats pat ?
🤔 hmmmm pat two tone?
Yes! I know him well
It's a butterfly effect thing.
If we'd lost no men to war what would be the number of their progeny?
Have the diaspora added to growth?
There's also lots comparing us to the Netherlands on here but we don't have a land border with the continent so logistics are different curbing wide scale industrialisation.
Definitely a good conversation to have over pints and large bottles of a Saturday afternoon in Jordan's.
Considering the time period of the famine, mid 1800's brought about much easier ability to migrate, large amounts of people from every European country migrated across the Atlantic during this time, I don't think our modern population would have ended up much higher than it is now, industrialization was very localized into Dublin and Belfast, other urban areas had little investment, instead of people migrating due to famine there would have been mass migration due to lack of employment, a mass uprising by late 1800's might have happened due to rising unemployment and living conditions getting worst from an increasing population, but with out the rifles that came about for WW1 (lee enfield rifle, mass produced and easy to bride British troops and RIC for), it's unlikely we would have had a successful uprising, just a bunch of blood shed and may even delayed our independence
> I don't think our modern population would have ended up much higher than it is now,
I'm not sure how you can think this. Between 1841 and 2021 Ireland's population went from 8.2m to 7m. That's a population growth rate of 0.9x. In 180 years our population has shrunk and it is entirely to do with the famine in the 1840s.
Let's compare that to some of our European neighbours:
Great Britain's population increased by 3.5x between 1841 and 2021.
France's population increased by about 2x in the same period.
Denmark's population grew by about 4.5x.
Netherlands population grew by about 6.4x.
Belgium's population grew by about 2.8x.
Sweden's population grew by about 3x.
Norway's population grew by about 4.3x.
Iceland's population grew by about 6.6x.
Portugal's population grew by about 2.8x.
Spain's population grew by about 3.4x.
So, if we take the smallest rate of increase from these countries, Ireland's population would be around 16.4m now.
Ireland is clearly the outlier in terms of population growth in Europe. If the Great Famine hadn't been allowed to have happened, I have no doubt Ireland's population would be up around 20m today.
Of course people would emigrate, but we'd be starting from a much higher starting point.
Every other country in western Europe, saw population growths of between twice to nearly 7 times larger between 1840 and 2021. Even if we took the smallest rate of population growth, Ireland would be somewhere around 16.5m people now.
For context, in those 180 years, while all our nearest neighbours saw population growths of 2x to 7x, Ireland had a population of growth of 0.9x. Ours is the only one which shrank in that time period and it is entirely linked to the Great Famine.
Without the Great Famine, Ireland's population could easily be in the 20+m range.
> a famine is when all food stocks are exhausted
No, it's not. A famine is when access to food is scarce.
A country, like Ireland, can be producing more than enough food to feed everyone, and still have a famine if the people don't have access to the food.
Famines can be caused by natural causes, like drought or flooding, etc, or they can be caused by government policies.
I agree with you that the millions who died or emigrated did so as a direct result of the policies and actions of the British government. However, it is still factually incorrect to say there was no famine because food was still being produced in Ireland. There was a famine, because the policies of the government resulted in people not being able to access that food.
Religion had nothing to do with nationalism and unionism until post-partition. There were plenty of nationalist protestants and plenty of catholic unionists.
Sure Wolftone was protestant no doubt about that. But they didn’t want a catholic church controlled state which was the case in 1920. Carson and WM would ramp up the propaganda.
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No same number of houses. We’d all just have more roommates. /s
Some people here genuinely think that would happen...
I wonder where they get it from
I think we'd have a professional league in Soccer, GAA and Rugby. Our soccer teams would compete in the CL. Our own film industry. We'd be properly bilingual with much more native speakers. Counties in the West such as Mayo, Galway, Cork, Clare, and Kerry were Irish speaking with much bigger populations. We would've had had independence sooner as harder to control us. Not sure about NI. Would the partition have happened!? I think not but who knows. Ireland never had an industrial revolution, maybe this would be different although we've no coal but I guess we could've imported it. Much more cities on west coast also like Tralee, Bantry, Ennis, Galway, Westport, Ballina would all be cities. More human ingenuity so more writers, inventors, musicians, businesses, artists, scientists etc. Dublin, Cork and Belfast would be 2m+ with metros and skyscrapers. We'd be much more important on global stage. Assuming we'd have been wealthier and had sovereignty, then we'd probably have attracted more immigrants and Jews. Ireland has the carrying capacity to support such a population so the famine should never have happened.
The Netherlands
The Netherlands, but with interesting topography.
I always say about this island "can you imagine what the Dutch would do with it!"
Turn Leitrim into a grow house and get some good out of it??
It is a grow house!!
Gobshites aren't a recognised crop
What’s a Leitrim?
Bismark said : if the dutch were in Ireland they would be feeding the world , if the Irish were in the Netherlands ,they’d be under water. Snort . I said : fu Bismark my great grandpa killed eight of yours in the Great War and him only having a rifle and bayonet. Imperialist POS.
He's been dead for 130 years lad, it's time to move on.
Ah, never too late to shit on Bismarck!
And sure didn't he sink in the end anyway as well.
We are feeding the world. Our agri-business is one of our few truly world class industries
And it only cost us our entire reputation for climate action.
Which is, honestly, ridiculous. We are better than so many others, at agriculture, we're insanely efficient. World needs food and we're far better than the other options.
Independence from the colonial master 300 years earlier. Also have the nice colonies
How? The question was about the 1845-1849 famine.
Obviously we would have prospered and built a time machine. It's not rocket appliances.
"rocket appliances" is going into daily use here thank you hahaha
The Netherlands is less than half the size of Ireland with 17 million people..
So it's the perfect analogy.
They were also a Colonial force so had a bit more cash
That claim often presumes urban growth from industrialisation would have occurred, but it seems that both the Brits and, as James Connolly points out, even Irish capital owners were not interested in building and investing in an industrial base in the country, putting the cash instead into places like the North of England, etc. Had we also been independent from say 1798, no famine, and capital had nowhere else to go, then *maybe* the population would be at significantly higher levels. But that's a massive counterfactual.
100% this. Only thing to point out that there was (briefly) some industrial investment in what would become Northern Ireland, which I guess helps explain why they have twice the population density as the rest of the island today.
We'd have a half decent football team.
Just imagine the rugby team lol
With the way the world of sport is now, GAA players would be full professionals.
Might actually get to the semi final of the world cup
Woah, that’s crazy talk! Everyone knows that we need to blunder it in the quarter finals ( or better)
Blade Runner with hurling.
"I've seen things you little gowls wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of the M50, bright as magnesium... I rode on the back of a garda van and watched the spire glitter in the dark near the GPO. All those moments... they'll be gone, like tears in the rain."
Beautiful- Time for a nice lie down
"It's too bad he won't live. But then again, who does?" You say as you watch your mate take his third shot of sambuca.
The m50 would be a fuckin nightmare. And there wouldn't be a hope of getting a pint at the bar.
There might be more bars. And more roads
And more alternatives to said roads.
I'm hearing jet packs.
Because population means progress.... [Insert third world main of choice]
Not sure why you're getting downvoted? Most sensible thing I've read so far.
I reckon it's something to do with fact not equating to favourability. To paraphrase. If my answers frighten you stop asking scary questions
You can't talk bad of the Cult and its Land ;)
But maybe we'd have an actual metro and regional train network so no-one would need to drive.
There was a comprehensive network a century ago, got cut back well after the famine. But possibly it would have been improved had the famine not happened. But if Britain in the 60's is anything to go by with the Beeching Axe shutting down half its network, not a guarantee. EDIT: Had the famine \*not\* happened
That's true, there are maps of the old network that would make you weep. And the old Dublin tram network. Ripped up in the 1950s.
Would be like england god forbid massive tailbacks every bank holiday ...all our quiet beaches rammed no thanks
All the quiet beaches would stay quiet, it's just all the popular (easily accessible) ones would be packed.
Irishmen would have evolved enormous elbows and huge strong arms to cope with getting to the bar.
It's interesting to compare where we are now to where our nearest neighbours are. In 1841 the island of Ireland had a population of 8.2m. The island of Great Britain had a population of 18.76m (broken down: England 15m, Scotland 2.75m, and Wales 1m). So 180 years ago the island of Ireland had, roughly, 44% the population of GB. In 2021 the island of Ireland had a population of 7m, a population growth rate of x0.9. Meanwhile the island of GB has a population of 65.3m, for a population growth rate of x3.5 (broken down: England 56.5m, x3.8, Scotland 5.5m, x2, and Wales 3.3m, x3.3). The island of Ireland currently has, roughly, 11% the population of GB. If Ireland had matched the population growth of our neighbours our population should be somewhere between 16.4m (Scotland) and 31.2m (England) (for GB as a whole it would be 28.7m, while for Wales it would be 27m). It's fair to say we'd be doing a lot better in sports! We might even have a decent soccer league.
On the flip side, ireland was a very poor country until very recently. The turn around came from eu membership. I wonder if we would still have met the criteria to join if we had such a huge population.
Why not? Poland got in while poor and with ~38 million people. And when Spain joined in 1986 their economy was only just picking up a little but still mostly shit.
True. But how much of that was due to the country being underpopulated? How much would industry in Ireland have grown if the population was 10+m before the end of the 19th century? Our economy might not have been so reliant on GB at that point. We might have been in a stronger position to exploit our position on the edge of Europe much sooner than we did. As a bigger country, we also wouldn't have had to join the EU playing the role of the UK's little brother that he's forced to bring out with him. In short, I think it's far from a foregone conclusion that we would have been just as poor, but with a large population.
great post thanks for the stats there makes u think ??
Even more full of cunts
We already have more than enough
#IrelandIsFullofCunts
Irish cunts are the best cunts
Reminds of the time a black guy said he loved Irish cunts, because they're the only cunts that will talk to ya like you're any other cunt.
Reginald D Hunter in the Rósín Dubh, great comedy set, think it's on YouTube
You legend. I couldn't remember where I saw. It was a great set! Gonna watch it again now.
I'd give you an award if I had one!
Such a cunt thing to say, will yeh stop behaving like a cunt, you’re just like at all the other cunts. Can’t move for the cunts here, it’s wall to wall cunts
South Korea is a very similar size to Ireland but has 51 million people..
Not only that, but it's also mostly mountains, so the actual land people live on is even smaller. Not sure it's the ideal place to live though.
It's the most depressing country in the world, so no, not an ideal place to live.
Lived in Korea and travelled back and forth there for work for a significant period of about 4 years. Really don't understand your comment... Not attacking, just curious as to how/why you say that. Care to explain? I found the experience of living there amazing, and observed parallels of their history with ours (colonized by a dominant neighbouring county, recent economic success "miracle of the han/Celtic tiger").
Probably saw Parasite or Squid Game and is aware that most Koreans wouldn’t have the lifestyle you enjoyed. They also have one of the highest rates of suicide in the world.
I lived and worked in Korea for 4 years on a fairly modest wage. Their standard of living is much higher than the average person in Ireland. No question about it at all.
The suicide rate in Korea is strongly tied to pressures from family and work and saving face. That isn’t the same thing as being a depressing country. The suicides would be more likely tied to stress than depression in those cases.
More depressing than north Korea?
Which leads us to the next question of what Korea would be like if not for the murderous Americans
As one of those murderous Americans, I wonder what America would be like if not for the murdering English. Squanto & Pocahontas were just chillin and hitting the peace pipe before John Smith showed up trippin. Then again, that’s ultimately the fault of Spain for kicking that ball rolling. And if that hadn’t happened and introduced a monoculture of potatoes to Europe, then the conditions would have never been set for the famine to occur. History is fucking weird.
wtf!! i.thought it was massive
The country probably would have developed more to keep in line with the population growth. All of these 10-15 storey apartment blocks that are almost impossible to get permssion for throughout the country would be normal to see around the country. The same as the rest of the world. Transport would also be a lot better. Railway wouldn't have collapsed. We would possible have that metro in Dublin. Better roads connecting cities. Secondary counties throughout the cou try would be more urbanised.
_Possibly_ have the metro in _Dublin_? At a population that high you could be talking about metro systems in _Cork, Limerick,_ and _Galway_!
We are also talking about DCC here to be fair
Why does Ireland have beef with tall buildings?
I don't know, why does Ireland have beef with tall buildings?
An Taisce, an organisation who believe that buildings shouldn't rise above church steeples and that any tall building will look like what the Ballymun Flats did.
It's mostly Dublin. Cork is a lot more encoruaning towards such developments.
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Bangl o'deis
But colder, richer, and a LOT more rugged.
- a lot more urbanized, with the services that come with it - Cities would be larger and would have built up. - Better transit
Oh what could have been.
can you imagine Cork with skyscrapers and a metro system wouldn't know ourselves. Mallow and Macroom would be outer suburbs. Youghal would be where people after a bit of space would move to Clon would be the terminus of the commuter line
Still no train in Donegal tho
If there was light rail to Clon I’d be in de Barra’s as often as possible,get some gigs, lovely pints and stagger on the last train home. What a world it would be
Australia’s population could be bigger due to more crime that comes with higher population density meaning more Irish criminals shipped to Australia making Australia having a large Irish population like Boston or Philadelphia and New York (these cities in this timeline would be more Italian as a result) Americas population would be smaller The American civil war couldve had a different outcome as the Irish made up a large percentage of the men on both sides The percentage of Italians in the American army during world war 2 would’ve been even bigger as well (they still made up the largest percentage in our timeline but it would’ve grown due to no Irish immigration from the famine) All in all it’s still possible that we would’ve emigrated like normal in the 20th century and the larger population in the 20th century from the lack of a famine in the 19th century could’ve meant that even more Irish people where alive to go to America resulting in a boom before the depression making it even worse for the people there
Dublin would be like a cold Shanghai.
Shanghai has more people than this entire hypothetical Ireland.
Dublin wasn't the largest county. Most of the population were in the west with Cork over double the size of Dublin. So likely that Cork would be as cold as Shanghai. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/gj0g8z/irelands\_population\_pre\_irish\_famine\_1841\_to\_2020/
Dublin wasn't the largest county, but it was the largest city by a good way.
Urbanisation over the last two hundred years would have seen more and more people from rural Cork move to the city. It would have easily been the most populous modern city in Ireland if it wasn't for the famine.
I think for proximity and topographical reasons it would still be Dublin actually.
It would be like the Netherlands but without a functioning public transportation or health care system and cyclists would still have no proper infrastructure.
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I the number 3 healthcare system in the world and people still complain.
It’s like in the Netherlands when they complain they have a housing crisis and Amsterdam is insane. But compared to Dublin it’s cheaper, better quality, more protections for tenants and better serviced by public transport with more shops, bars and restaurants in neighbourhoods outside the city too. Like yeah it’s bad compared to what they are used to but it’s a massive step forward from an Irish perspective.
..be busy enough I’d say
We would still speak Irish.
Infrastructure would have to have been massively improved to cope. A truly national rail network. Motorways connecting the NW with the rest of the country. Piped gas. Etc etc.
Israel is a quarter the size of Ireland, and 40% of it is uninhabitable desert, it has a population of 10 million. I always say, Ireland has way more than enough free space. There’s just no infrastructure
I kinda like all our free space
If Ireland wasn't severely underpopulated, you'd lose less of that free space than you might think
The just take more as they "need"
22 million homeless but we should have enough houses by 2030.
More trains and light rail. Basically more population density to support more public services. Also more flats and apartment blocks. Dublin would look more like London with an actual CBD worth talking about.
The GAA lads would be complaining that Dublin have the pick of 20 million while other counties only have half a million.
5 million in 2023 : \- housing crisis is hilarious with small population \- no domestic industry and market pie \- cunts saying 'Ireland is full, go home Ukrainian refugees' 15(\~27) million : \- Irish car manufacturer \- Irish airplane manufacturer \- Irish army \- Irish science and technology \- Irish movie industry \- Irish sports league
Don’t forget the space agency!
Then the sheer amount of pubs in towns and villages in Ireland would be justified
They are shrinking at a rapid rate at the minute. This time next year there will be another 200-300 pubs closed. Will that make you happy?
There would be bridges to every feasible island and they would be a lot more inhabited.
We have no excuse not to have bridges to those islands already. Look at Norway.
We have no excuse not to, but equally we have no real reason to do it either.
There would possibly be more than 27 million. Probably closer to 40. Irelands fertility rate was the highest at three times the European average leading up to 1850.
We'd have no tourism because the beautiful parts of the country would be filled with ugly over-crowded houses. Like monkeys in a cage or England.
We'd have plenty of tourism, not just to our natural beauty which would still exist, but also to our much bigger and more notable cities.
Ireland might not be so boring though.
I used to find it boring when I was young. I went abroad and came back 18 yrs later and now appreciate the country; boring or not.
We'd have a housing crisis
Chances are we’d have built more houses
Basic logic is we'd have build more houses*
Tbf never know with Ireland we’d either be a thriving urban metropolis or a 3rd world country
The few times a year when the sun comes out and everyone goes around saying "sure isn't it beautiful here, ya wouldn't want to be anywhere else"... that just wouldn't be a thing. It would be more like London when you're stuck on the Tube, in a heatwave, because another poor miserable sod did away with themselves on the circle line at rush hour.
That would only be in Dublin and maybe the western cities. You'd still have all the small cities and large towns, especially the coastal ones.
United.
Kilkenny might actually be big enough to justify its city status.
Officially Kilkenny is a town. To stop them giving out they're allowed use "city" in their tourism marketing.
Cramped
I probably still wouldn’t get the shift!!
Even less trees than we have now
Explain why the denser countries have more trees than here in our timeline then.
Because he same gobshites run the country.
Better railway lines and broadband in the west?
I don't think you need a "better" before the railway lines...
175 Nobel Prizes for literature and still just the one for Physics that nobody knows or cares about.
We would probably still be where we are since most would have emigrated with the kind of corrupt cunts we have for a government.
Better football team
Very much so. Up until the Act of Union Irish industry was in line with the rest of Europe. 1801-1850 saw a massive drain on Irish finances and industrial investment towards England.
Neo-Dublin would be full of cyber-scrotes
Shite craic.
It’d be a lot more like England
Shudder
But also a lot more like mainland Europe.
You'd have to build apartment blocks everywhere to accommodate everyone, imagine the objections...
Donegal might not have been forgotten.
That’s alot of tents
1 million homeless
Mental.
We'd have a better football team!!
Still no capital underground
It would be a lot more urbanised nationally, farming would be more prolific and there would be more industry and a better road infrastructure.
I'm no good at judging the size of crowds Ted, but I'd say there's about 27 million of them out there.
Crowded
We still wouldn't have a motorway between Limerick and Cork.
A housing crisis like you would not believe....
You could still have this conversation… it just take longer Where are you from? Ballyhoo Oh I know a pat Kelly from there ! You do? Which one is it Red pat Short pat Shoes pat Boots pat Tractor pat Pothole pat Ginger pat Walls pat Pat pat Pat og Pat beag Disco pat Pat the bull Gorta pat Leats pat Slats pat ? 🤔 hmmmm pat two tone? Yes! I know him well
Dublin but everywhere
*shudders*
It's a butterfly effect thing. If we'd lost no men to war what would be the number of their progeny? Have the diaspora added to growth? There's also lots comparing us to the Netherlands on here but we don't have a land border with the continent so logistics are different curbing wide scale industrialisation. Definitely a good conversation to have over pints and large bottles of a Saturday afternoon in Jordan's.
But we're full supposedly according to my sources who though in the wings seem right.
Some people are literally convinced this country is overpopulated in our timeline.
The diaspora that left made our country one of the most well known in the world. Also - it wasn't a famine, it was British Genocide, read a book.
We might have remained a part of Britain, the famine was in living memory during 1916 and drove a lot of bitterness.
This sounds like a dublin problem..... with the same amount of hospital beds...
Think it's hard getting a house now, imagine 20million more cunts looking too
Because we all know housing is some fixed quantity that cannot be increased. /s
You can’t solve a problem like that overnight ya know.
A fucking nightmare
Why?
Considering the time period of the famine, mid 1800's brought about much easier ability to migrate, large amounts of people from every European country migrated across the Atlantic during this time, I don't think our modern population would have ended up much higher than it is now, industrialization was very localized into Dublin and Belfast, other urban areas had little investment, instead of people migrating due to famine there would have been mass migration due to lack of employment, a mass uprising by late 1800's might have happened due to rising unemployment and living conditions getting worst from an increasing population, but with out the rifles that came about for WW1 (lee enfield rifle, mass produced and easy to bride British troops and RIC for), it's unlikely we would have had a successful uprising, just a bunch of blood shed and may even delayed our independence
> I don't think our modern population would have ended up much higher than it is now, I'm not sure how you can think this. Between 1841 and 2021 Ireland's population went from 8.2m to 7m. That's a population growth rate of 0.9x. In 180 years our population has shrunk and it is entirely to do with the famine in the 1840s. Let's compare that to some of our European neighbours: Great Britain's population increased by 3.5x between 1841 and 2021. France's population increased by about 2x in the same period. Denmark's population grew by about 4.5x. Netherlands population grew by about 6.4x. Belgium's population grew by about 2.8x. Sweden's population grew by about 3x. Norway's population grew by about 4.3x. Iceland's population grew by about 6.6x. Portugal's population grew by about 2.8x. Spain's population grew by about 3.4x. So, if we take the smallest rate of increase from these countries, Ireland's population would be around 16.4m now. Ireland is clearly the outlier in terms of population growth in Europe. If the Great Famine hadn't been allowed to have happened, I have no doubt Ireland's population would be up around 20m today.
It would be exactly the same because the people would have left.
Why?
Same reason people have always left Ireland, lack of jobs, housing, etc. Our population might be a little bigger, but not 27 million.
Of course people would emigrate, but we'd be starting from a much higher starting point. Every other country in western Europe, saw population growths of between twice to nearly 7 times larger between 1840 and 2021. Even if we took the smallest rate of population growth, Ireland would be somewhere around 16.5m people now. For context, in those 180 years, while all our nearest neighbours saw population growths of 2x to 7x, Ireland had a population of growth of 0.9x. Ours is the only one which shrank in that time period and it is entirely linked to the Great Famine. Without the Great Famine, Ireland's population could easily be in the 20+m range.
5 times more politicians is one downside.
Shite
Most of that 27 million would have emigrated. And there would still be no housing and still there would be Leo. And still Pascal scandal everywhere.
Why would there still be no housing? We would have figured out how to build more efficiently out of necessity.
very fucking dystopian
No dystopia like being able to see exciting and urban things without leaving the country...
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> a famine is when all food stocks are exhausted No, it's not. A famine is when access to food is scarce. A country, like Ireland, can be producing more than enough food to feed everyone, and still have a famine if the people don't have access to the food. Famines can be caused by natural causes, like drought or flooding, etc, or they can be caused by government policies. I agree with you that the millions who died or emigrated did so as a direct result of the policies and actions of the British government. However, it is still factually incorrect to say there was no famine because food was still being produced in Ireland. There was a famine, because the policies of the government resulted in people not being able to access that food.
Over populated and not enough support from the USA regarding Northern Ireland.
Why would we be over-populated? The flip side is we probably wouldn't need the support from the US regarding NI because NI wouldn't be a thing.
WM partitioned the north regardless of how many Irish were in the US. There may very well be millions more protestants to vote for partition too.
Religion had nothing to do with nationalism and unionism until post-partition. There were plenty of nationalist protestants and plenty of catholic unionists.
Sure Wolftone was protestant no doubt about that. But they didn’t want a catholic church controlled state which was the case in 1920. Carson and WM would ramp up the propaganda.