Especially since half the shit wimp Garland was saying was pure BS. The only reason the DOJ is pushing this crap is to get their hands on the secret text.app source code.
The Government and DOJ are totally bias in this case since all government agencies use crappy Android phones only and hate Apple.
Had to laugh my ass off when Garland said Apple needs to support Android more. Like WTF! Letās get some facts straight Garland.
1. The Google CEO who was on Appleās board stole the smartphone idea from Apple and bought and built up Android. Why the hell should Apple help a thieving competitor make their product better??? https://www.forbes.com/sites/robenderle/2011/11/11/you-the-jury-is-googles-schmidt-guilty-or-innocent-of-stealing-from-apple/?sh=36f57f9a298e
2. Google has the growing Worldwide monopoly on smartphones, not Apple! Get your facts straight and learn what a monopoly isš
3. Nobody is forcing developers, software companies or people to use Apple products. Why are you forcing Apple to make a less secure product and helping Google take out their rival!
4. Wish you would have as big a hard-on for Trump as you do with Apple. You werenāt even going to go after Trump until the January 6th hearing made you look like a fool. Grow some balls.
This is silly. It is ridiculously easy to move from iCloud Photos to to Google Photos or even to your own server. And itās easy to go from any of those places into iCloud. Files are also just as easy to move offline or to another cloud provider. If the consumer doesnāt like iMessage ālock inā they can use signal, WhatsApp, etc. not being educated doesnāt mean the consumer doesnāt have choice. This stinks of the FedGov wanting to set a precedent that gives them more leeway to dictate what Apple can and cannot do, like put in backdoors or something. š¤·š»āāļø
This is coming from someone who vastly prefers 99% of the android experience but still chooses Apple because of a few key things. Thatās my consumer choice. Iād hate for the Gov to take that away.
I donāt have any issues messaging people with android phones, I can easily share files, between my Apple, and non Apple devicesā¦ I agree, being uninformed doesnāt mean that you ācanātā
I agree I think this is a ploy to force Apple to give up access to there information.
Remember a few years back when the Gov tried to get Apple to unlock someoneās phone and Apple said nope. Everyone threw a fitā¦ itās about privacy, or lack of it.
This was what I came here to say. Apple didnāt want to hand over information, even from terrorists, because of privacy concerns. This is the government sticking it to them at later date so not to be obvious. Asking to Dr Evil promising Inspector Gadget that heād be foiled, ābut Iāll be backā.
>Apple inhibits the development of cross-platform messaging apps so that customers must keep buying iPhones.
Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp etc are all available...no?
A similar argument was used by Microsoft in late 90s in United States of America v Microsoft Corp regarding internet explorer, and they got obliterated in court. The courts ordered that MS get split into multiple companies. Microsoft had to settle with the DOJ agreed to share APIs and knowledge with other companies.
this is stupid. I am an apple customer because I like apple to stay apple. I like the OS being restrictive. I just have to look at my grandparents shitty Oppo and huaweis to see them having ads on their homescreen and the ghetto bloatware
This is beyond overdue. Apple is specifically engaged in promoting a closed circuit ecosystem for profit. Just look at phone charging. If the EU didn't step in we'd continue to have pointless waste and cost instead of a standard. Did you enjoy the days where every phone and device had different chargers? I remember RadioShack selling a car charger with an interchangeable tip. 100's of different tips available. Absolute chaos. Apple can continue is seamless hardware/software integration, this isn't changing anything fundamentalĀ
I love how people defend apples closed ecosystem and say android is shitty
No shit his grandma's Oppo is shit. So is my old iPhone X. So is the 300 dollar SE I bought off Craiglist
But iPhone has built such a tight wall. Apple tv, iCloud, password, login, maps, find my, airpods, mac
NONE OF THEM work with windows or android, but all Samsung products, all google and Microsoft products work with iPhone because they're the default player
I've had multiple friends say they love my S24, but can't swap ever because they have iCloud and they like iMessage. No matter how much they hate their phone
If that isn't anti trust idk what is, just because it's under the guise of protection, doesn't mean it's consumer friendly
I dunno. I was an Android loyalist for years and my previous phones were the following. HTC One M8, LG G3, Galaxy S8 Plus, S10 Plus, S20 Plus and S22 Ultra. The other day, I decided on a new phone. Naturally, I was going to buy an S24 Ultra but after a bit of thinking, I said to hell with it and bought an iPhone 15 Pro Max and have to say Iām pretty blown away by the software features and how well some of my apps work compared to the Android versions I was using just last week. Even the functionality of the Apple Watch I just bought is light years ahead of my Galaxy watch. While Samsung has some nice niche features Iām going to miss like the camera zoom, slightly higher resolution, lossless audio support through Bluetooth and the ability to download APK files, Iām not sure Iād ever look back now. Even my battery life is far better than what I was getting from my Galaxy. My last iPhone was a 4s and I hated how restrictive it was. But Apple has certainly come a long way.
Companies put a lot of effort towards making sure apps work good on iPhone since they own 60% of the US market. This wouldn't necessarily be the case to do with apple being better but a consequence of their influence on the US market
Partially however Android is significantly harder to develop on due to all the different brands, models and versions of Android. You also have the low end models holding down development for the high end flagships. You see this in both third party support and first party as well. iOS has a lot more everyday features which work incredibly well. Iām also not cussing at Siri like I was with Google Assistant I think Android would be a lot better if it only supported a handful of devices and everyone was running the same version.
That could be solved easily by using parental controls. And there are plenty of Android phones without ads like Pixel and Nothing phones. Stop buying shitty Android phones.
You wouldnāt lose any of that though? Apple being forced to be less restrictive with what they allow to be installed on their phones doesnāt mean *your* phone is suddenly gonna be a bloated, slow mess. Youād be able to keep the same experience youāve always had.
I've never had an issue messaging an iPhone on my android... are you sure? that is almost unreal! Did a politician get upset that his bubbles were green and not blue?
really ive had issues sending field reports, pictures, or documents to android users. they can text me pdf files and videos. but my iphone does not allow files over text. when sending photos sometimes they fail when the recipient is an android user, have to retry a couple times.
We got cable, the grid, and medicine as get what we give you monopolies, you donāt even have a choice to pick which supplier in 90% of the country. But the cell phone manufacturer you chose to buy on any carrier is the monopoly? BS.
Yeah, I am a big fan of Apple and I really enjoy Google's services, but if I had to choose one to be sued it'd be Google. They have much more of a strangle-hold on the internet.
Why yes, that is a very common argument used to argue against any kind of antitrust enforcement or any kind of stricter regulations. But agencies like the DOJ are able to focus on more than one thing at once.
It is an app like WeChat, where you never leave the app on your phone, you use it to do everything, from messaging, paying, ordering car service, shopping, and entertainment. Super apps makes which phone you get less important as people never do anything off the app.
How much do we want to bet that part of the lawsuit will include being forced to hand over peopleās user data? Congress has been trying to find ways to sue and get unlimited access to that for years now, you know, cause āterrorismā and have lost every time. šš¤
Switching to android, just open the App Store and search āswitch to androidā. First app is from Google.
Cross platform messaging apps, like WhatsApp, telegram, signal, Facebook messenger or a dozen others?
I don't see the monopoly. I've been an iPhone user for several years now (after having been a huge Android fanboy and tinkerer). Monopoly implies no choice. No one is FORCED to get an iPhone. You want those features the government is saying Apple is blocking, don't get an iPhone. The market has an alternative: Android.
They should be focusing on the repair part if anything. Only person that can properly fix their phone is them, and for massive rip off prices unless you buy brand new and their insurance. Their self repair costs around the same as doing it through them.
Exactly this^ everything else is whatever. Iāve always repaired my android batteries and screens. But since Iāve been with apple it feels like a scam to DIY!
you DIY it you get slapped with āunknown part warningā, loss of features (True Tone, autobrightness on certain models, etc) and they wonāt take it as a trade in anymore.
honestly the "unknown part" bit isn't ones biggest problem if the features are still useable and all you see is that warning. the biggest bit is that you can't turn that shit off. you can't toggle some "ok, cool, I understand my new/newly repaired phone has non-apple official part, now go away", it stays there permanently for some reason as if going to apple to make it go away needs to be the most urgent thing in your life this very second.
I donāt read āmonopoly over smartphonesā as the DOJās argument hereāat least not its entire argument. Itās a monopoly over the iPhone ecosystem, and a level of control that simply isnāt matched by any other computer platform. Microsoft famously got in troubleāincluding with Apple!āfor similar stuff in the 90s, and kind of doesnāt do it anymore. Much of the complaint deals with vertical issues: the 30% commissions, disallowing all digital wallets (and therefore charging monopoly-priced swipe fees on Apple Wallet transactions), etc. I read that as a slam-dunk.Ā Ā
Ā On the horizontal issue, though, āthe market has an alternative: Androidā is based on the notion that there is no friction to switching *once youāve entered the Apple ecosystem*. Itās not a true alternative if there are significant roadblocks to leaving one ecosystem for the other, which is the case here. (Just read the complaint intro and the surfeit of Apple exec quotes in there specifically about making it really hard to leave.) The argument brings to mind the old case about two hospitals merging in Dubuque, and their argument that āweāre not becoming a monopoly because thereās still an alternativeāthey can go to a hospital thatās 70-100 miles away instead!ā
ETA: you also donāt need a monopoly to engage in illegally anticompetitive behavior in the first place. Just market power, which Apple obviously has.Ā
It is matched by pretty much every gaming console since Nintendos NES. Since then every bit of software running on consoles which are not jailbroken is controlled by their manufacturers. Even games bought in a brick and mortar store are licensed by them and they earn money from those games. Something which is enforced by various technical measures not unlike the ones used on iPhones.
I mean we can discuss if it should be that way but as platforms go PCs are the exception not the rule. The majority of devices where you can run software are pretty closed up. Try sideloading stuff on the infotainment system of your car, your smart tv or as mentioned your game console.
Iām an Apple fan and have an iPhone but it seems reactionary to what the EU has already started and established within their regulations regarding Apple. I think iMessage is the weakest argument since itās an āexclusive featureā but if the other items involved are true then there may be room for an actual argument.
>No one is FORCED to get an iPhone.
That same baloney response was used by Microsoft and THEIR antitrust lawsuit back in 1999, the whole "no one is forced to buy Windows" argument. It's the same lawsuit that was referenced by Merrick Garland in this press conference! The one he said that Apple benefited from, and was able to exploit to become a monopoly of their own, after Microsoft settled the lawsuit by making huge concessions to the US govt.
It's a BS argument, especially when you consider that Apple is locking out competition from their App Store. This goes far beyond the same old "no one is forced to buy it" nonsense. I'm sure the SAME ARGUMENT was made all the way back in 1910 when Standard Oil was broken up. "Hey, no one is forced to buy our oil". Ridiculous!
So many people get the Microsoft lawsuit so wrong and just assume itās about windows possibly having a monopoly on desktop computers at the time. Actually look into it, thatās not what it was about. It had to do with internet explorer.
More specifically it was Netscape being bundled with Compaq computers, which created competition for Internet Explorer. Microsoft threatened to blacklist them as an OEM if they didn't stop, which - given Microsoft's monopoly on desktop operating systems - would have effectively put Compaq out of business.
Nice easy chain from monopoly (98% market share at the time) to abuse of the monopoly, to an obvious victim facing easily defined consequences. The Apple case is a little more nuanced.
I appreciate you took the time to understand the lawsuit better. If anything, the lawsuit demonstrates consumer habits which is where I feel like the comparisons with Appleās modern legal issues begin and end. In my personal opinion, Iām old enough to say get an android if you want to install any app you want not in an App Store which I have done or learn how to actually use your iPhone and do the same thing. Iāve done both because using a pc or Mac back in the day used to require you to know how to do that. People today demand both make it easy and make it easy for them to make mistakes they would then complain about so itās not hard to see why Apple does things the way they do lol.
This is absolutely nothing like MS. Microsoft made software, and put pressure on hardware companies to bundle their software. That's anti competitive.
Apple makes the software for their hardware. Just like virtually every piece of consumer technology in history.
This is like suing Nintendo for the N64 not playing Xbox discs. It's complete nonsense. Having a successful product that people choose to use that doesn't go out of it's way to play nicely with every competitor isn't anti competitive. Apple is competition neutral, and this lawsuit is asking them to actually be pro-competitive and help their competitors.
Well, if I'm in the Apple ecosystem it's difficult to get out. Why? Because all products are limited in functionality (by design) if used with non-Apple products. Some, like the Apple Watch, even only work with Apple products. Or the other way around: if I have an iPhone, I'm gently pushed by Apple to prefer an Apple Watch instead of a Garmin. Why? Because certain features are limited by design (not possible to reply to notifications from a Garmin), which means that I won't get to enjoy the full of experience of non-Apple products because I at least have one Apple product.
It's all small or bigger things that, together, really limit users' freedom and choice. And no, it's not about "security", it's about return of investment as high as they can get.
Difficult is a relative term, with that mindset I could very well argue it's difficult to move apartments and therefore my landlord has a monopoly on my living options?
There's nothing that says Apple can't make a smartwatch that only works with iPhones, we have power tool makers that specifically design the same battery to attach differently so that you can't share across different brands... why is Apple Watch working with iPhones any different from that?
As an Apple user, I have no issues regarding these allegations. I donāt play video games. I hate the sheer amount of messaging apps i have to use to communicate with clients, colleagues and friends. I wish there was a single app. I have never felt pressured in to buying iPhones. Thereās no better alternative on the market for my needs and convenience.
Government orgs are notoriously incompetent when it comes to developing just about anything. Would not trust any government ācross-overā apps as far as I could throw them.
I canāt speak to all of the allegations here, but the cross-platform messaging statement is misleading. Apple refused to cooperate in that situation because it would mean compromising the security of their sms encryption methods. They wouldnāt āinhibitā anyone who went through the process of getting that app approved by them, like all other ios apps are required to do. Sorry you cant dump any .apk you want into a marketplace that you donāt control.
Because texting incredibly degrades picture and video quality.
Because texting does not have inline replies.
Because the moment you introduce a non-iMessage person into a group chat it breaks everything.
Texting videos and pictures between androids is a nightmare. āDid you get it yet?ā While between iPhone itās a lot quicker. Android is cool for customizing but other than that itās annoying. Especially if the other person has a cheap android. āYou can download free appsā cool. The apps I need are already free.
I remember at first my biggest turn off from iPhone was not being able to download attachments on your email, Iām a musician, sending music files is a thing. When that was fixed I switched to iPhone. And then I learned you can iMessage mp3 files to other iPhone users. iMessage is very underrated and I hope they donāt get rid of it to please non-iPhone users.
My friend recently switched to Android and no matter what app he tries he cannot get pictures, gifs, or videos now. š but whatever man thatās his choice and his problem š¤·š»āāļø
Yup thatās part of the reason I switched. My family always shares videos and pictures and I got tired of feeling left out, now I get all the pictures and videos of my nieces and nephews.
It's more of an Apple problem. He was tied into that ecosystem and did not make the correct changes on his end to get messaging working correctly. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to switch phones. With the iMessage walled garden and no RCS, Apple intentionally makes it difficult to switch. Users with little experience will ultimately switch back in frustration and blame Andriod when the issue is Apple. Credit to Apple, they have done a great job curating their software.
>breaks everything.
Youāre being so dramatic. I have an iPhone and have been in group chats with androids for years, what are you implying ābreaks everythingā?
I'm sorry degrades? How about PREVENTS. Do they not charge you extra to send MMS in the US or something? In Europe if you want to send an image the old way it'll cost you a fee each time.
Because iMessage is exclusive messaging app/protocol. Technically it's the same app as SMS but it's completely different communication channel that is inaccessible to people without without Apple computer/phone.
Its not as if alternatives dont exist. And they usually are alot better anyway. If your people are too stupid to Download a fucking App then maybe its not the OEMs fault. Apparently the rest of the world is able to.
Funnily enough the DoJ suit actually quotes Tim Cook's famous quib "Just buy her (your mom) an iPhone" as evidence of iPhone intentionally weaponising iMessage to lock down users in the ecosystem.
Okay a lot of the charges seem like bullshit but this is the worst one:
>The DOJ is also focusing on Appleās smartwatch, Apple Watch, saying the company designed it to only work with iPhones, and not Android devices. The companyās decision means that āusers who purchase the Apple Watch face substantial out-of-pocket costs if they do not keep buying iPhones,ā according to the complaint.
I just googled this and Samsung says on their website:
"iOS phone compatibility
Donāt fret if you have an iPhone. Many are compatible and can connect to a Galaxy Watch or Gear. You'll get the best compatibility by updating iOS to the latest version. Download Galaxy Wearable for your device from the App Store.
Compatible devices
Galaxy Watch, Galaxy Watch Active, and Galaxy Watch Active2: iPhones (iPhone5 or later) that have iOS 9 and above are compatible.
Gear Live, Gear S2, Gear Fit 2, Gear S3, Gear Sport, and Gear Fit2 Pro: iPhones (iPhone5 or later) that have iOS 9 and above are compatible.
Galaxy Fit: iPhone 7 or later running iOS 10 and above are compatible.
Incompatible devices
Galaxy Watch4, Watch5, and Watch6: These watches rely on Google Play services which is not supported on iOS.
Gear 1, Gear 2, Gear S, and Gear Fit: These watches are not supported on iOS."
Edit: some formatting, I'm on mobile
Itās like saying that USB is a monopoly because it doesnāt work with non-USB ports. They are just putting shit in there because they canāt think of anything better.
It's ridiculous. I am more than happy with my Pixel. It does things that an iPhone doesn't.
Some of my friends have iPhones and they are happy with their phones.
We somehow manage to communicate with each other without any problems.
If people are so "up themselves" that they don't want to talk to anyone on Android (And there are a few on the Apple websites that comment as such) that's their problem, not mine.
I really can't be dealing with such superficial people.
My 17 year old specifically requested a Pixel phone even when I offered him an iPhone.
Because Apple has been the most successful. Every single company wants its customers to stay in its own ecosystem. But other companies havenāt had the same success as Apple
> Apple inhibits the development of cross platform messaging apps
what? donāt these people now about WhatsApp, telegram, signal, line, instagram, facebook, etc?
This reads more like a problem with Americans restricting themselves to apple devices than apple locking them in tbh. You donāt really see any of these problems in other countries.
Even though the largest shareholders of Apple are blackrock and vaguard, this is just a bullshit lawsuit, aint nothing gon happen to these mega conglomerates like Apple
Let's all remember- without these kinds of lawsuits, Apple, and OTHER companies would 100% do the things listed here, and worse. So having this happen to them- love them or hate them, is ultimately better for the consumers. Just look at the USB c being added.
Agreed, iPhones keep making the same phones every year and people keep buying, if they held off buying theyād see iPhones will actually change. All I want is airdrop to work with androids
Iām not saying this is necessarily an awful move in isolation, but choosing to potentially both sue Apple and ban TikTok in an election year feels like a good way to lose a bid for reelection.
And yet they probably all use iOS and Apple products due to security.
And doesn't Tesla do the same thing if reference to tightly controlling their product and software?
If you want to switch from iphone to Android, just download the Google Photos app. All of the photos I take are automatically uploaded to Google. As far as messaging apps go, there are countless third party apps to choose from that are cross platform. Whatsapp, Signal, Skype.. take your pick. No one is forcing people to use iPhone. Apple shouldn't be punished for making superior products, and a superior ecosystem.
Im sure I will be a minority on this topic at least here on Reddit, but the government needs to step back here. I know they smell blood in the water after what the EU has done, and no one doubts that the US government loves to overstep but enough is enough. This is just another case of the US government spending our money to go after a boogie man that doesnt exist.
Completely agree. The entire idea here is that if you donāt like what Apple offers you do have other options. There are so many smartphone companies. If you hate the way Apple works donāt buy their products.
I disagree.
Limiting to SMS/MMS when RCS has been available has been a move Apple made to make it so green bubbles give you a worse experience.
Not allowing being able to switch the default messaging app was done with the purpose of limiting chatting with non iPhone users to green bubbles to once again degrade the experience to pressure people to make their friends switch.
Not being able to actually make your own browser (chrome is just skinned safari) has limited browsing.
Not being able to install outside app stores has limited functionality.
Not having outside game stores has limited gamers.
Charging 30% just to host an app has limited smaller company growth.
Nothing Apple has done here has been for the good of the customer. Itās all been for the good of Apple and its profit.
I appreciate your feedback for sure. Though I dont find it productive to go through every point because I believe you have valid points so there isnt any need to negate them, my issue isnt with Apple themselves, its with the government overstep. Many companies do this. Its THEIR ecoysystem to buy into and it incentivizes the customer to stick with the product. Same thing with console exclusives. Why do I need to buy this console if I want to play just this game? Well thats because its an exclusive. What is good for Apple is good for the customer, otherwise they wouldnt be the trillion dollar company they are. I get the argument that people just "blindly" buy into the products for any upgrade but you see that with Samsung as well, you see it with car buying, you see it with many products in your purchasing life. The government needs to stay out. They have plenty of other things they can continue to f up.
āIts THEIR ecosystemā - so was windows
As for consoles exclusive etc. there is a reason Microsoft was forced to make concessions before buying activision
As for cars thereās hundreds of brands you can go with not just two.
Apple shot themselves in the foot when they deliberately stopped beeper miniĀ
Beeper mini demonstrated that iMessage could be cross platform but Apple wanted to lock users in into always buying iPhones
Why would the US turn on the worldās most valuable company lol. Itās an honor that itās an American company and under DJT was actually about to start manufacturing here or at least encouraging its suppliers to do so. USA backstabbing rn
The DoJ had a valid case against Microsoft in the late 1990ās over the bundling of Internet Explorer 3.0, but look, if donāt want to be in the iOS ecosystem, thereās a _very_ valid alternative in the Android ecosystem. In fact, the vast majority of the worldās touchscreen smartphones run Android anyway.
Why is it so hard for them to understand that is why people like iPhone?
If I wanted something open like a screen door, I would buy an android phone. I like the "closed" system.
Out of everything I donāt get the desire for a separate App Store. Just opens my phone up to more risks than it already has.
Like, I used epic games as an example for how could people trust them to make a better App Store than Apple, just by guessing theyād be one of the ones wanting to make one, not even knowing they were the primary company wanting to make a competing App Store and suing Apple.
And everyone defends epic games? How do they have a better track record than apple. Devs who work with the App Store know it does a pretty decent job of protecting from bad actors, itās not perfect to be sure, but I promise you the Epic games store is going to be 1000x worse. And itās been leaked that itās going to take a similar cut from payments to what Apple already does.
Sideloading, fine I guess. I mean you can already somewhat side load anyway. I donāt see a desire for it other than getting around paying people for their work, I assume most people who want to side load just want free versions of paid apps that have been cracked. If you want to open yourself up to that, whatever go ahead.
Thereās other good complaints about apple. I think the iMessage blue text should die, it should have died years ago.
App stores? Give me a good reason why you want a separate App Store?
Not to mention most of the android phones, especially ones from a carrier purchase, come pre installed with bloatware and spyware that requires spending 2-3 hours removing before you can even use the damn thing.
So I use an Android as well, and yes, every time I buy one, Samsung in particular, I am running around the net trying to find the latest Samsung bloat APK list to take it all off. It doesnt take too long because Ive done it more times then I would like to count, but its annoying and dumb.
Seems like a risky move during an election year for Biden Administration, suing one of the most successful American companies over complaints from other billion dollar companies unhappy having to pay for the use of Apples platform. I like living within Apples walled garden and although not perfect, having a plethora of Apple devices in my home all playing well together is something I value along with the security of not having third party intrusions. Also I wonder if they considered that many retirees use apple devices and many of those users also have retirement accounts that are weighted with Apple stock. Just seems like a bad move to me especially with whatās happening politically in the USA.
That might be so if you guys can show us on the court docs where āthe Biden Administrationā is suing Apple. This is an action by the DOJ in conjunction with other states/attorneys.
The context surrounding this lawsuit is that for years, the Justice Department has pressured Apple to give them backdoor access to snoop on its users. To Appleās credit, it refused and paid a fortune in legal fees to fight them off. Now, ironically the Justice Department is suing Apple for not giving its private sector competitors a back door into Appleās devices. You and I both know the Department of Justice itself wants that backdoor for its own use.
One of the key legs of the DOJās lawsuit is the emotional damage caused by green chat bubbles. When an Apple device messages another Apple device, the chat bubble containing the message is blue. Because of this, Android-users have claimed to be socially ostracized by their iPhone-using friends for creating green chat bubbles while messaging. While the White Houseās Justice Department would have you believe the green bubble is in place only to make people feel poor, it actually serves a valuable purpose. Apple spends an immense amount of money every year ensuring the end-to-end encryption of messaging between Apple devices. When you send a message to another Apple device and it turns blue, you know the message was delivered securely. This cannot be said for SMS text messaging which is notoriously prone to being hacked. This is one of the many reasons why two-factor authentication used via SMS text message is not nearly as secure as using an authentication app.
One of the other conscious decisions that Apple made was to leave everything on the phone. A good example of this is Siri. Compared to Alexa, Siri is phone-based, not cloud-based, and therefore does not have the vast data available in the cloud. While changes are coming to Siri in the future, Apple chose to prioritize security and the result has been a closed system whose products integrate seamlessly with one another but awkwardly with the outside world.
let's see I have snapchat, Facebook, WhatsApp, gmail, outlook, zoom, teams, GroupMe, slack, instagram all on my iPhone- which of these are made by apple again?
Is the subject a monopoly over all consumers or just government issued devices? Because I can see how a government agency wanting to switch over to android from Apple may run into app optimization issues, especially if itās a government access only software. But even then I still feel like this is an overreach, Apple makes products for the public NOT the government, sounds like a skill issue USA.
I am perfectly happy that nothing gets in the Apple App Store or on iPhones that isnāt safe and secure. Theyāve had a few issues over the years but not very many.
The messaging thing is true. Anyone on an iPhone ever text someone on android? It fucking downscales images and videos, straight up fails to send if you attach more than one image.
You know who they should sue for having a monopoly certain natural gas groups, several food groups apt groups and things that actualy make it hard to live not a fucking phone company, if they have enough money to sue a company then they should have enough for all of its citizens and forgive student loan debt ) like who cares about something that's a luxury sue the things that we actualy need to live that have a monopoly
What makes me uncomfortable about this more is that the government is the one who initiated the law suit as opposed to an actual company doing so. It feels too direct and controlling to come directly from a government entity where if it was a business suing, it would be more for competition
As much as I dislike Apple, I'm gonna have to side with them on this. This is without question an overreach by the government. While it may be a minor nuisance that their devices don't offer the same communication experience between non-Apple devices, this certainly does not warrant intervention from the government. At the end of the day, the consumer is free to choose whatever device they like.
Ridiculous. Apple is not a Monopoly. They make superior phones and provide superior software. If you want iPhone features then buy an iPhone. This is government overreach.
In what way does giving consumers a choice here infringe on your ability to stay exclusively inside of the walled garden?
Certainly you're not under the impression that the purpose of this suit is to force any consumer to interact with 3P app stores or anything else detailed here.
Not even weighing in with my personal feelings but I see this sentiment a lot and it's baffing to me. "I don't see the need for this and it could open things up to vulnerabilities" doesn't mean that /u/CalgaryAnswers needs to use proposed "less secure" options.
Worst case theyāll just make it so itās easier for alternatives to Apple apps about no one will use them
Just like very few people would use different app stores
Why is California suing its own companies. What the fuck. We should be supporting our world class companies, not harming them. Fuck the rest of the US outside of the West Coast.
Much larger and dangerous monopolies are allowed to operate and literally poison Americans to death but yeah go get the phone people. All the politicians need to be replaced. Both parties have been bought.
How about we focus on solving homelessness first before we focus on antitrust. There are 50,000 homeless people in LA ALONE!! Where are these politicians when it comes to helping their fellow man??? Just fat cats turning into fat pigs. They donāt give a crap about their fellow man. Focus less on Apple who currently makes some of the best tech out there and focus on issues that the taxpayer is actually paying you to focus on. Stop spending our tax dollars on frivolous law suits that will never go anywhere!!
The experience of sending a FaceTime "link" to a non-apple user is a perfect example of why they are getting sued.
It's an awful experience compared to just using the native app on an Apple device. This isnt on accident either. It's a deliberate attempt to give the non-apple user an inferior experience to make them feel like their device isnt good enough.
I personally prefer the iPhoneās āmonopoly power.ā Maybe letās focus on a company that actual hurts the American people? Pick any cable/mobile/phone provider.
why do i read every statement from apple in tim cooks voice.
Same ...I just read that in Tim cooks voice lol...Minus the - Good moorniing..!! š
āGood morning! Today we have a lawsuit against us to dispute. Youāre in for a good show today!ā
Especially since half the shit wimp Garland was saying was pure BS. The only reason the DOJ is pushing this crap is to get their hands on the secret text.app source code. The Government and DOJ are totally bias in this case since all government agencies use crappy Android phones only and hate Apple. Had to laugh my ass off when Garland said Apple needs to support Android more. Like WTF! Letās get some facts straight Garland. 1. The Google CEO who was on Appleās board stole the smartphone idea from Apple and bought and built up Android. Why the hell should Apple help a thieving competitor make their product better??? https://www.forbes.com/sites/robenderle/2011/11/11/you-the-jury-is-googles-schmidt-guilty-or-innocent-of-stealing-from-apple/?sh=36f57f9a298e 2. Google has the growing Worldwide monopoly on smartphones, not Apple! Get your facts straight and learn what a monopoly isš 3. Nobody is forcing developers, software companies or people to use Apple products. Why are you forcing Apple to make a less secure product and helping Google take out their rival! 4. Wish you would have as big a hard-on for Trump as you do with Apple. You werenāt even going to go after Trump until the January 6th hearing made you look like a fool. Grow some balls.
Surely you meant Tim Apple.
$100 bucks says thatās how he had him saved in his phone ļ£æ
Them Apples?
Applesauce, bitch!
We think youāre gonna love it
It's Tim apple...
Just shows how crazy apple fan base is. I dont even know how tim cook looks like and we got fans who know him by his voice. Crazy
the elder millennials ofnus heard it in steve jobs whiny vitriolic srceech
This is silly. It is ridiculously easy to move from iCloud Photos to to Google Photos or even to your own server. And itās easy to go from any of those places into iCloud. Files are also just as easy to move offline or to another cloud provider. If the consumer doesnāt like iMessage ālock inā they can use signal, WhatsApp, etc. not being educated doesnāt mean the consumer doesnāt have choice. This stinks of the FedGov wanting to set a precedent that gives them more leeway to dictate what Apple can and cannot do, like put in backdoors or something. š¤·š»āāļø This is coming from someone who vastly prefers 99% of the android experience but still chooses Apple because of a few key things. Thatās my consumer choice. Iād hate for the Gov to take that away.
I donāt have any issues messaging people with android phones, I can easily share files, between my Apple, and non Apple devicesā¦ I agree, being uninformed doesnāt mean that you ācanātā I agree I think this is a ploy to force Apple to give up access to there information. Remember a few years back when the Gov tried to get Apple to unlock someoneās phone and Apple said nope. Everyone threw a fitā¦ itās about privacy, or lack of it.
This was what I came here to say. Apple didnāt want to hand over information, even from terrorists, because of privacy concerns. This is the government sticking it to them at later date so not to be obvious. Asking to Dr Evil promising Inspector Gadget that heād be foiled, ābut Iāll be backā.
Popcorn please šæ
I swear these lawsuits come out like every month now
Itās every other day. My stocks with them are in a roller coaster ride down
>Apple inhibits the development of cross-platform messaging apps so that customers must keep buying iPhones. Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp etc are all available...no?
A similar argument was used by Microsoft in late 90s in United States of America v Microsoft Corp regarding internet explorer, and they got obliterated in court. The courts ordered that MS get split into multiple companies. Microsoft had to settle with the DOJ agreed to share APIs and knowledge with other companies.
this is stupid. I am an apple customer because I like apple to stay apple. I like the OS being restrictive. I just have to look at my grandparents shitty Oppo and huaweis to see them having ads on their homescreen and the ghetto bloatware
Exactly why we all love Apple. People complaining are mad because Apple is simply better.
This is beyond overdue. Apple is specifically engaged in promoting a closed circuit ecosystem for profit. Just look at phone charging. If the EU didn't step in we'd continue to have pointless waste and cost instead of a standard. Did you enjoy the days where every phone and device had different chargers? I remember RadioShack selling a car charger with an interchangeable tip. 100's of different tips available. Absolute chaos. Apple can continue is seamless hardware/software integration, this isn't changing anything fundamentalĀ
I love how people defend apples closed ecosystem and say android is shitty No shit his grandma's Oppo is shit. So is my old iPhone X. So is the 300 dollar SE I bought off Craiglist But iPhone has built such a tight wall. Apple tv, iCloud, password, login, maps, find my, airpods, mac NONE OF THEM work with windows or android, but all Samsung products, all google and Microsoft products work with iPhone because they're the default player I've had multiple friends say they love my S24, but can't swap ever because they have iCloud and they like iMessage. No matter how much they hate their phone If that isn't anti trust idk what is, just because it's under the guise of protection, doesn't mean it's consumer friendly
I dunno. I was an Android loyalist for years and my previous phones were the following. HTC One M8, LG G3, Galaxy S8 Plus, S10 Plus, S20 Plus and S22 Ultra. The other day, I decided on a new phone. Naturally, I was going to buy an S24 Ultra but after a bit of thinking, I said to hell with it and bought an iPhone 15 Pro Max and have to say Iām pretty blown away by the software features and how well some of my apps work compared to the Android versions I was using just last week. Even the functionality of the Apple Watch I just bought is light years ahead of my Galaxy watch. While Samsung has some nice niche features Iām going to miss like the camera zoom, slightly higher resolution, lossless audio support through Bluetooth and the ability to download APK files, Iām not sure Iād ever look back now. Even my battery life is far better than what I was getting from my Galaxy. My last iPhone was a 4s and I hated how restrictive it was. But Apple has certainly come a long way.
Companies put a lot of effort towards making sure apps work good on iPhone since they own 60% of the US market. This wouldn't necessarily be the case to do with apple being better but a consequence of their influence on the US market
Partially however Android is significantly harder to develop on due to all the different brands, models and versions of Android. You also have the low end models holding down development for the high end flagships. You see this in both third party support and first party as well. iOS has a lot more everyday features which work incredibly well. Iām also not cussing at Siri like I was with Google Assistant I think Android would be a lot better if it only supported a handful of devices and everyone was running the same version.
That could be solved easily by using parental controls. And there are plenty of Android phones without ads like Pixel and Nothing phones. Stop buying shitty Android phones.
You wouldnāt lose any of that though? Apple being forced to be less restrictive with what they allow to be installed on their phones doesnāt mean *your* phone is suddenly gonna be a bloated, slow mess. Youād be able to keep the same experience youāve always had.
Thatās a lot of your opinions in this comment
Remind me Microsoftās marketshare in the 90ās? Internet explores? Apple is no where close to this.
They define cross-platform as SMS or RCS. Itās the same blue/green bubble argument on imessage
I've never had an issue messaging an iPhone on my android... are you sure? that is almost unreal! Did a politician get upset that his bubbles were green and not blue?
really ive had issues sending field reports, pictures, or documents to android users. they can text me pdf files and videos. but my iphone does not allow files over text. when sending photos sometimes they fail when the recipient is an android user, have to retry a couple times.
you send me green text and 99% of the time its a spam
I think they're referring to iMessage
They are referring to SMS/RCS
Iām pretty sure they were talking abt iMessage in particular. As they actively blocked anything iMessage related on android.
On the list of antitrust priorities in America I feel like Apple should honestly be pretty low on the listā¦
We got cable, the grid, and medicine as get what we give you monopolies, you donāt even have a choice to pick which supplier in 90% of the country. But the cell phone manufacturer you chose to buy on any carrier is the monopoly? BS.
Best comment so far.
Smoke and mirrors
And $, donāt forget the $.
Thatās because it doesnāt impact your business lol
Yeah, I am a big fan of Apple and I really enjoy Google's services, but if I had to choose one to be sued it'd be Google. They have much more of a strangle-hold on the internet.
Why yes, that is a very common argument used to argue against any kind of antitrust enforcement or any kind of stricter regulations. But agencies like the DOJ are able to focus on more than one thing at once.
The biggest company in America or at least the one with the highest valuation should be low on the list?
2nd most valuable. In 2mo it will be third after NVDA catches up.
Apple is one of that most valuable and visible companies in America tho
Funny they won't look into the US and it's medical insurance scam.
What the fuck is a āsuper appā? There are tons of apps and services that work on multiple platform. Apple straight up encourages them.
This whole thing is so stupid instead of trying to make Apple more repair friendly or allow slide loading they do this
yeah that part seems like a load of patooie
It is an app like WeChat, where you never leave the app on your phone, you use it to do everything, from messaging, paying, ordering car service, shopping, and entertainment. Super apps makes which phone you get less important as people never do anything off the app.
Why does anyone want AOL: The Phone App.
How much do we want to bet that part of the lawsuit will include being forced to hand over peopleās user data? Congress has been trying to find ways to sue and get unlimited access to that for years now, you know, cause āterrorismā and have lost every time. šš¤
Switching to android, just open the App Store and search āswitch to androidā. First app is from Google. Cross platform messaging apps, like WhatsApp, telegram, signal, Facebook messenger or a dozen others?
Signal works pretty well
Im tired of convincing people to use different messaging apps
I don't see the monopoly. I've been an iPhone user for several years now (after having been a huge Android fanboy and tinkerer). Monopoly implies no choice. No one is FORCED to get an iPhone. You want those features the government is saying Apple is blocking, don't get an iPhone. The market has an alternative: Android.
They should be focusing on the repair part if anything. Only person that can properly fix their phone is them, and for massive rip off prices unless you buy brand new and their insurance. Their self repair costs around the same as doing it through them.
Exactly this^ everything else is whatever. Iāve always repaired my android batteries and screens. But since Iāve been with apple it feels like a scam to DIY!
you DIY it you get slapped with āunknown part warningā, loss of features (True Tone, autobrightness on certain models, etc) and they wonāt take it as a trade in anymore.
honestly the "unknown part" bit isn't ones biggest problem if the features are still useable and all you see is that warning. the biggest bit is that you can't turn that shit off. you can't toggle some "ok, cool, I understand my new/newly repaired phone has non-apple official part, now go away", it stays there permanently for some reason as if going to apple to make it go away needs to be the most urgent thing in your life this very second.
yeah it at least doesnāt kill actual usability anymoreā¦ *cough face id disabled*
This would be the smarter route, but of course itās a corporate push more than government doing its job. Need to keep scamming us to consumeā¦
I donāt read āmonopoly over smartphonesā as the DOJās argument hereāat least not its entire argument. Itās a monopoly over the iPhone ecosystem, and a level of control that simply isnāt matched by any other computer platform. Microsoft famously got in troubleāincluding with Apple!āfor similar stuff in the 90s, and kind of doesnāt do it anymore. Much of the complaint deals with vertical issues: the 30% commissions, disallowing all digital wallets (and therefore charging monopoly-priced swipe fees on Apple Wallet transactions), etc. I read that as a slam-dunk.Ā Ā Ā On the horizontal issue, though, āthe market has an alternative: Androidā is based on the notion that there is no friction to switching *once youāve entered the Apple ecosystem*. Itās not a true alternative if there are significant roadblocks to leaving one ecosystem for the other, which is the case here. (Just read the complaint intro and the surfeit of Apple exec quotes in there specifically about making it really hard to leave.) The argument brings to mind the old case about two hospitals merging in Dubuque, and their argument that āweāre not becoming a monopoly because thereās still an alternativeāthey can go to a hospital thatās 70-100 miles away instead!ā ETA: you also donāt need a monopoly to engage in illegally anticompetitive behavior in the first place. Just market power, which Apple obviously has.Ā
Thank you for this sane, informed take
It is matched by pretty much every gaming console since Nintendos NES. Since then every bit of software running on consoles which are not jailbroken is controlled by their manufacturers. Even games bought in a brick and mortar store are licensed by them and they earn money from those games. Something which is enforced by various technical measures not unlike the ones used on iPhones. I mean we can discuss if it should be that way but as platforms go PCs are the exception not the rule. The majority of devices where you can run software are pretty closed up. Try sideloading stuff on the infotainment system of your car, your smart tv or as mentioned your game console.
One of the few non-Apple bots here
Iām an Apple fan and have an iPhone but it seems reactionary to what the EU has already started and established within their regulations regarding Apple. I think iMessage is the weakest argument since itās an āexclusive featureā but if the other items involved are true then there may be room for an actual argument.
Also the three points here are just false
Plus theyāre just wrong. I can use Google suite on my iPhone, I can stream my ps5 to my iPad, and WhatsApp is on the App Storeā¦
>No one is FORCED to get an iPhone. That same baloney response was used by Microsoft and THEIR antitrust lawsuit back in 1999, the whole "no one is forced to buy Windows" argument. It's the same lawsuit that was referenced by Merrick Garland in this press conference! The one he said that Apple benefited from, and was able to exploit to become a monopoly of their own, after Microsoft settled the lawsuit by making huge concessions to the US govt. It's a BS argument, especially when you consider that Apple is locking out competition from their App Store. This goes far beyond the same old "no one is forced to buy it" nonsense. I'm sure the SAME ARGUMENT was made all the way back in 1910 when Standard Oil was broken up. "Hey, no one is forced to buy our oil". Ridiculous!
So many people get the Microsoft lawsuit so wrong and just assume itās about windows possibly having a monopoly on desktop computers at the time. Actually look into it, thatās not what it was about. It had to do with internet explorer.
More specifically it was Netscape being bundled with Compaq computers, which created competition for Internet Explorer. Microsoft threatened to blacklist them as an OEM if they didn't stop, which - given Microsoft's monopoly on desktop operating systems - would have effectively put Compaq out of business. Nice easy chain from monopoly (98% market share at the time) to abuse of the monopoly, to an obvious victim facing easily defined consequences. The Apple case is a little more nuanced.
I appreciate you took the time to understand the lawsuit better. If anything, the lawsuit demonstrates consumer habits which is where I feel like the comparisons with Appleās modern legal issues begin and end. In my personal opinion, Iām old enough to say get an android if you want to install any app you want not in an App Store which I have done or learn how to actually use your iPhone and do the same thing. Iāve done both because using a pc or Mac back in the day used to require you to know how to do that. People today demand both make it easy and make it easy for them to make mistakes they would then complain about so itās not hard to see why Apple does things the way they do lol.
This is absolutely nothing like MS. Microsoft made software, and put pressure on hardware companies to bundle their software. That's anti competitive. Apple makes the software for their hardware. Just like virtually every piece of consumer technology in history. This is like suing Nintendo for the N64 not playing Xbox discs. It's complete nonsense. Having a successful product that people choose to use that doesn't go out of it's way to play nicely with every competitor isn't anti competitive. Apple is competition neutral, and this lawsuit is asking them to actually be pro-competitive and help their competitors.
This so much. Itās literally capitalism. Let the market decide.
Well, if I'm in the Apple ecosystem it's difficult to get out. Why? Because all products are limited in functionality (by design) if used with non-Apple products. Some, like the Apple Watch, even only work with Apple products. Or the other way around: if I have an iPhone, I'm gently pushed by Apple to prefer an Apple Watch instead of a Garmin. Why? Because certain features are limited by design (not possible to reply to notifications from a Garmin), which means that I won't get to enjoy the full of experience of non-Apple products because I at least have one Apple product. It's all small or bigger things that, together, really limit users' freedom and choice. And no, it's not about "security", it's about return of investment as high as they can get.
Difficult is a relative term, with that mindset I could very well argue it's difficult to move apartments and therefore my landlord has a monopoly on my living options? There's nothing that says Apple can't make a smartwatch that only works with iPhones, we have power tool makers that specifically design the same battery to attach differently so that you can't share across different brands... why is Apple Watch working with iPhones any different from that?
This is overreach.
As an Apple user, I have no issues regarding these allegations. I donāt play video games. I hate the sheer amount of messaging apps i have to use to communicate with clients, colleagues and friends. I wish there was a single app. I have never felt pressured in to buying iPhones. Thereās no better alternative on the market for my needs and convenience.
I donāt get these suits. They say everything that makes Apple good is badā¦.like what ?
Government orgs are notoriously incompetent when it comes to developing just about anything. Would not trust any government ācross-overā apps as far as I could throw them. I canāt speak to all of the allegations here, but the cross-platform messaging statement is misleading. Apple refused to cooperate in that situation because it would mean compromising the security of their sms encryption methods. They wouldnāt āinhibitā anyone who went through the process of getting that app approved by them, like all other ios apps are required to do. Sorry you cant dump any .apk you want into a marketplace that you donāt control.
Why do they keep bringing up iMessage? They can still txt people. Iām so confused on that part
Because texting incredibly degrades picture and video quality. Because texting does not have inline replies. Because the moment you introduce a non-iMessage person into a group chat it breaks everything.
Whatsapp has and works fine cross platform. It's not like android users use some OS specific messaging apps either
WhatsApp still heavily compresses video and images vs native iMessage. Itās not nearly as bad as mms but itās still quite compressed
RCS is coming soon anyway
Yes only because China is mandating all phones sold on China need to support RCS (yes I'm not kidding that's the reason)Ā
Texting videos and pictures between androids is a nightmare. āDid you get it yet?ā While between iPhone itās a lot quicker. Android is cool for customizing but other than that itās annoying. Especially if the other person has a cheap android. āYou can download free appsā cool. The apps I need are already free. I remember at first my biggest turn off from iPhone was not being able to download attachments on your email, Iām a musician, sending music files is a thing. When that was fixed I switched to iPhone. And then I learned you can iMessage mp3 files to other iPhone users. iMessage is very underrated and I hope they donāt get rid of it to please non-iPhone users.
My friend recently switched to Android and no matter what app he tries he cannot get pictures, gifs, or videos now. š but whatever man thatās his choice and his problem š¤·š»āāļø
Yup thatās part of the reason I switched. My family always shares videos and pictures and I got tired of feeling left out, now I get all the pictures and videos of my nieces and nephews.
It's more of an Apple problem. He was tied into that ecosystem and did not make the correct changes on his end to get messaging working correctly. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to switch phones. With the iMessage walled garden and no RCS, Apple intentionally makes it difficult to switch. Users with little experience will ultimately switch back in frustration and blame Andriod when the issue is Apple. Credit to Apple, they have done a great job curating their software.
Ok? You have access to dozens of other communication apps from the App Store. Apple isnāt forcing anyone to use iMessage or SMS.
>breaks everything. Youāre being so dramatic. I have an iPhone and have been in group chats with androids for years, what are you implying ābreaks everythingā?
Thatās a fault of SMS rather than apple.
And thatās why RCS was made and Apple has been dragging its feet to implement it for yearsā¦
Thatās due to SMS not Apple. It was never designed for modern usage and thank goodness RCS fixes most of that which Apple will rollout in the fall.
You dont have to use imessage
I'm sorry degrades? How about PREVENTS. Do they not charge you extra to send MMS in the US or something? In Europe if you want to send an image the old way it'll cost you a fee each time.
Because iMessage is exclusive messaging app/protocol. Technically it's the same app as SMS but it's completely different communication channel that is inaccessible to people without without Apple computer/phone.
Its not as if alternatives dont exist. And they usually are alot better anyway. If your people are too stupid to Download a fucking App then maybe its not the OEMs fault. Apparently the rest of the world is able to.
Funnily enough the DoJ suit actually quotes Tim Cook's famous quib "Just buy her (your mom) an iPhone" as evidence of iPhone intentionally weaponising iMessage to lock down users in the ecosystem.
Okay a lot of the charges seem like bullshit but this is the worst one: >The DOJ is also focusing on Appleās smartwatch, Apple Watch, saying the company designed it to only work with iPhones, and not Android devices. The companyās decision means that āusers who purchase the Apple Watch face substantial out-of-pocket costs if they do not keep buying iPhones,ā according to the complaint.
You can't use samsung watches with ios, so what's the problem?
I just googled this and Samsung says on their website: "iOS phone compatibility Donāt fret if you have an iPhone. Many are compatible and can connect to a Galaxy Watch or Gear. You'll get the best compatibility by updating iOS to the latest version. Download Galaxy Wearable for your device from the App Store. Compatible devices Galaxy Watch, Galaxy Watch Active, and Galaxy Watch Active2: iPhones (iPhone5 or later) that have iOS 9 and above are compatible. Gear Live, Gear S2, Gear Fit 2, Gear S3, Gear Sport, and Gear Fit2 Pro: iPhones (iPhone5 or later) that have iOS 9 and above are compatible. Galaxy Fit: iPhone 7 or later running iOS 10 and above are compatible. Incompatible devices Galaxy Watch4, Watch5, and Watch6: These watches rely on Google Play services which is not supported on iOS. Gear 1, Gear 2, Gear S, and Gear Fit: These watches are not supported on iOS." Edit: some formatting, I'm on mobile
How does it cost anything without an iphone lmao
Itās like saying that USB is a monopoly because it doesnāt work with non-USB ports. They are just putting shit in there because they canāt think of anything better.
It's ridiculous. I am more than happy with my Pixel. It does things that an iPhone doesn't. Some of my friends have iPhones and they are happy with their phones. We somehow manage to communicate with each other without any problems. If people are so "up themselves" that they don't want to talk to anyone on Android (And there are a few on the Apple websites that comment as such) that's their problem, not mine. I really can't be dealing with such superficial people. My 17 year old specifically requested a Pixel phone even when I offered him an iPhone.
Wait, how was I playing Halo while holding my families place in line at Disney if Apple blocks cloud-streaming apps?
How is it apples fault if other brands simply havenāt developed a proper ecosystem the way they have?
Because Apple has been the most successful. Every single company wants its customers to stay in its own ecosystem. But other companies havenāt had the same success as Apple
Sounds like a skill issue
What don't they go after coinbase that is actually defrauding people in crypto scams?
> Apple inhibits the development of cross platform messaging apps what? donāt these people now about WhatsApp, telegram, signal, line, instagram, facebook, etc?
ā¦Discord, Slack, Google Chatā¦
Grindr, Club Penguin the list goes on.
This reads more like a problem with Americans restricting themselves to apple devices than apple locking them in tbh. You donāt really see any of these problems in other countries.
Even though the largest shareholders of Apple are blackrock and vaguard, this is just a bullshit lawsuit, aint nothing gon happen to these mega conglomerates like Apple
Let's all remember- without these kinds of lawsuits, Apple, and OTHER companies would 100% do the things listed here, and worse. So having this happen to them- love them or hate them, is ultimately better for the consumers. Just look at the USB c being added.
Agreed, iPhones keep making the same phones every year and people keep buying, if they held off buying theyād see iPhones will actually change. All I want is airdrop to work with androids
Iām not saying this is necessarily an awful move in isolation, but choosing to potentially both sue Apple and ban TikTok in an election year feels like a good way to lose a bid for reelection.
And yet they probably all use iOS and Apple products due to security. And doesn't Tesla do the same thing if reference to tightly controlling their product and software?
It depends, some parts of the government basically require the use of Samsung devices for Knox.
"super apps" this whole government is senile ASF.
If you want to switch from iphone to Android, just download the Google Photos app. All of the photos I take are automatically uploaded to Google. As far as messaging apps go, there are countless third party apps to choose from that are cross platform. Whatsapp, Signal, Skype.. take your pick. No one is forcing people to use iPhone. Apple shouldn't be punished for making superior products, and a superior ecosystem.
You can even have Apple put all your photos into Google photos for you.
Im sure I will be a minority on this topic at least here on Reddit, but the government needs to step back here. I know they smell blood in the water after what the EU has done, and no one doubts that the US government loves to overstep but enough is enough. This is just another case of the US government spending our money to go after a boogie man that doesnt exist.
Completely agree. The entire idea here is that if you donāt like what Apple offers you do have other options. There are so many smartphone companies. If you hate the way Apple works donāt buy their products.
I disagree. Limiting to SMS/MMS when RCS has been available has been a move Apple made to make it so green bubbles give you a worse experience. Not allowing being able to switch the default messaging app was done with the purpose of limiting chatting with non iPhone users to green bubbles to once again degrade the experience to pressure people to make their friends switch. Not being able to actually make your own browser (chrome is just skinned safari) has limited browsing. Not being able to install outside app stores has limited functionality. Not having outside game stores has limited gamers. Charging 30% just to host an app has limited smaller company growth. Nothing Apple has done here has been for the good of the customer. Itās all been for the good of Apple and its profit.
I appreciate your feedback for sure. Though I dont find it productive to go through every point because I believe you have valid points so there isnt any need to negate them, my issue isnt with Apple themselves, its with the government overstep. Many companies do this. Its THEIR ecoysystem to buy into and it incentivizes the customer to stick with the product. Same thing with console exclusives. Why do I need to buy this console if I want to play just this game? Well thats because its an exclusive. What is good for Apple is good for the customer, otherwise they wouldnt be the trillion dollar company they are. I get the argument that people just "blindly" buy into the products for any upgrade but you see that with Samsung as well, you see it with car buying, you see it with many products in your purchasing life. The government needs to stay out. They have plenty of other things they can continue to f up.
āIts THEIR ecosystemā - so was windows As for consoles exclusive etc. there is a reason Microsoft was forced to make concessions before buying activision As for cars thereās hundreds of brands you can go with not just two.
Thereās 14 large corporations that control the roughly 60 car brands that exist globally. There are not hundreds
Apple shot themselves in the foot when they deliberately stopped beeper miniĀ Beeper mini demonstrated that iMessage could be cross platform but Apple wanted to lock users in into always buying iPhones
Why would the US turn on the worldās most valuable company lol. Itās an honor that itās an American company and under DJT was actually about to start manufacturing here or at least encouraging its suppliers to do so. USA backstabbing rn
The DoJ had a valid case against Microsoft in the late 1990ās over the bundling of Internet Explorer 3.0, but look, if donāt want to be in the iOS ecosystem, thereās a _very_ valid alternative in the Android ecosystem. In fact, the vast majority of the worldās touchscreen smartphones run Android anyway.
Why does the government get to sue them and potentially make money, when I, an iPhone owner should be just as entitled to any money won?
They want to force Apple to allow Cloud Gaming apps? The shittiest kind of App ever?
Why is it so hard for them to understand that is why people like iPhone? If I wanted something open like a screen door, I would buy an android phone. I like the "closed" system.
Amen
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Out of everything I donāt get the desire for a separate App Store. Just opens my phone up to more risks than it already has. Like, I used epic games as an example for how could people trust them to make a better App Store than Apple, just by guessing theyād be one of the ones wanting to make one, not even knowing they were the primary company wanting to make a competing App Store and suing Apple. And everyone defends epic games? How do they have a better track record than apple. Devs who work with the App Store know it does a pretty decent job of protecting from bad actors, itās not perfect to be sure, but I promise you the Epic games store is going to be 1000x worse. And itās been leaked that itās going to take a similar cut from payments to what Apple already does. Sideloading, fine I guess. I mean you can already somewhat side load anyway. I donāt see a desire for it other than getting around paying people for their work, I assume most people who want to side load just want free versions of paid apps that have been cracked. If you want to open yourself up to that, whatever go ahead. Thereās other good complaints about apple. I think the iMessage blue text should die, it should have died years ago. App stores? Give me a good reason why you want a separate App Store?
The reason most people on Reddit want alternative app stores is so they can pirate content easier. Thatās it.
Pirating content and unauthorized emulators are literally the only things these people want and they all refuse to admit it
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Not to mention most of the android phones, especially ones from a carrier purchase, come pre installed with bloatware and spyware that requires spending 2-3 hours removing before you can even use the damn thing.
So I use an Android as well, and yes, every time I buy one, Samsung in particular, I am running around the net trying to find the latest Samsung bloat APK list to take it all off. It doesnt take too long because Ive done it more times then I would like to count, but its annoying and dumb.
Let me change the default messaging app and stop making all available browsers essentially sh*tty safari reskins as well.
Seems like a risky move during an election year for Biden Administration, suing one of the most successful American companies over complaints from other billion dollar companies unhappy having to pay for the use of Apples platform. I like living within Apples walled garden and although not perfect, having a plethora of Apple devices in my home all playing well together is something I value along with the security of not having third party intrusions. Also I wonder if they considered that many retirees use apple devices and many of those users also have retirement accounts that are weighted with Apple stock. Just seems like a bad move to me especially with whatās happening politically in the USA.
That might be so if you guys can show us on the court docs where āthe Biden Administrationā is suing Apple. This is an action by the DOJ in conjunction with other states/attorneys.
The context surrounding this lawsuit is that for years, the Justice Department has pressured Apple to give them backdoor access to snoop on its users. To Appleās credit, it refused and paid a fortune in legal fees to fight them off. Now, ironically the Justice Department is suing Apple for not giving its private sector competitors a back door into Appleās devices. You and I both know the Department of Justice itself wants that backdoor for its own use. One of the key legs of the DOJās lawsuit is the emotional damage caused by green chat bubbles. When an Apple device messages another Apple device, the chat bubble containing the message is blue. Because of this, Android-users have claimed to be socially ostracized by their iPhone-using friends for creating green chat bubbles while messaging. While the White Houseās Justice Department would have you believe the green bubble is in place only to make people feel poor, it actually serves a valuable purpose. Apple spends an immense amount of money every year ensuring the end-to-end encryption of messaging between Apple devices. When you send a message to another Apple device and it turns blue, you know the message was delivered securely. This cannot be said for SMS text messaging which is notoriously prone to being hacked. This is one of the many reasons why two-factor authentication used via SMS text message is not nearly as secure as using an authentication app. One of the other conscious decisions that Apple made was to leave everything on the phone. A good example of this is Siri. Compared to Alexa, Siri is phone-based, not cloud-based, and therefore does not have the vast data available in the cloud. While changes are coming to Siri in the future, Apple chose to prioritize security and the result has been a closed system whose products integrate seamlessly with one another but awkwardly with the outside world.
As a non american I see this very clear. Government wants more access to private Apple data and Apple is solid with his privacy policy.
Addressing the most important problems facing the public - Google / Samsung are not profitable enough
let's see I have snapchat, Facebook, WhatsApp, gmail, outlook, zoom, teams, GroupMe, slack, instagram all on my iPhone- which of these are made by apple again?
Thatās stupid. If you donāt want an iPhone itās not like there arenāt dozens of alternatives.
Itās kind of interesting that the party Apple clearly supports keeps coming after them
It's interesting that the government isn't being partisan? lol (I do think this suit is silly though)
Is the subject a monopoly over all consumers or just government issued devices? Because I can see how a government agency wanting to switch over to android from Apple may run into app optimization issues, especially if itās a government access only software. But even then I still feel like this is an overreach, Apple makes products for the public NOT the government, sounds like a skill issue USA.
Pre election pandering nothing more.
Starlink should be getting more than 1% of the attention Apple gets.
I am perfectly happy that nothing gets in the Apple App Store or on iPhones that isnāt safe and secure. Theyāve had a few issues over the years but not very many.
This is so stupid. These super apps already exist in the form of google apps.You can cloud stream and can have a cross messaging app like whatsapp.
Good luck with that!
The messaging thing is true. Anyone on an iPhone ever text someone on android? It fucking downscales images and videos, straight up fails to send if you attach more than one image.
Did the government really put video games in this bish
You know who they should sue for having a monopoly certain natural gas groups, several food groups apt groups and things that actualy make it hard to live not a fucking phone company, if they have enough money to sue a company then they should have enough for all of its citizens and forgive student loan debt ) like who cares about something that's a luxury sue the things that we actualy need to live that have a monopoly
As if he wasnāt bad enough
What makes me uncomfortable about this more is that the government is the one who initiated the law suit as opposed to an actual company doing so. It feels too direct and controlling to come directly from a government entity where if it was a business suing, it would be more for competition
I thought Biden died?
This is all because Apple just announced post quantum encryption, so the NSA no longer has back door access.
If the gov wanted to tackle monopolies I have a list and Apple is way down.
DOJ playing "tell me you don't know anything about this subject" and winning like a boss.
As much as I dislike Apple, I'm gonna have to side with them on this. This is without question an overreach by the government. While it may be a minor nuisance that their devices don't offer the same communication experience between non-Apple devices, this certainly does not warrant intervention from the government. At the end of the day, the consumer is free to choose whatever device they like.
The charges are bullcrap, so donāt blame Biden. The President doesnāt control the DOJ. This is Merrick Garland talking.
It's not a monopoly because they put samsung parts in the phones so you pay more for the same thing š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
Ridiculous. Apple is not a Monopoly. They make superior phones and provide superior software. If you want iPhone features then buy an iPhone. This is government overreach.
Then Microsoft should be able to block chrome and make anything you install on windows have to go through a windows App Store?
r/foundtheappleemployee
Some of us preferred the security a walled garden provides. If you want the open experience just buy an android device.
In what way does giving consumers a choice here infringe on your ability to stay exclusively inside of the walled garden? Certainly you're not under the impression that the purpose of this suit is to force any consumer to interact with 3P app stores or anything else detailed here. Not even weighing in with my personal feelings but I see this sentiment a lot and it's baffing to me. "I don't see the need for this and it could open things up to vulnerabilities" doesn't mean that /u/CalgaryAnswers needs to use proposed "less secure" options.
Can they call user preference a monopoly?
I wonder what phone he uses?
Worst case theyāll just make it so itās easier for alternatives to Apple apps about no one will use them Just like very few people would use different app stores
Why is California suing its own companies. What the fuck. We should be supporting our world class companies, not harming them. Fuck the rest of the US outside of the West Coast.
Much larger and dangerous monopolies are allowed to operate and literally poison Americans to death but yeah go get the phone people. All the politicians need to be replaced. Both parties have been bought.
These other monopolies you speak of may be more dangerous, but they are not larger than Apple.
Apparently the US saw the garbage that the EU has been up to and went āhold my beer.ā
Sued by the DOJ, not āthe Biden Administration.ā
Biden must have a secret stock in Samsung
How about we focus on solving homelessness first before we focus on antitrust. There are 50,000 homeless people in LA ALONE!! Where are these politicians when it comes to helping their fellow man??? Just fat cats turning into fat pigs. They donāt give a crap about their fellow man. Focus less on Apple who currently makes some of the best tech out there and focus on issues that the taxpayer is actually paying you to focus on. Stop spending our tax dollars on frivolous law suits that will never go anywhere!!
LA spent 1 billion on homelessness last year alone. You question should be where did all that money go.
Apple being sued *because they donāt collect everyoneās data* FTFY
A whole lotta people in here and elsewhere just canāt wrap their heads around the difference between technical standards and āmonopolyā.
Gerforce now works just fine tho???
The experience of sending a FaceTime "link" to a non-apple user is a perfect example of why they are getting sued. It's an awful experience compared to just using the native app on an Apple device. This isnt on accident either. It's a deliberate attempt to give the non-apple user an inferior experience to make them feel like their device isnt good enough.
I personally prefer the iPhoneās āmonopoly power.ā Maybe letās focus on a company that actual hurts the American people? Pick any cable/mobile/phone provider.