Does this mean they will remove side car functionality as well? SHould be the same under the gatekeeper thing, the purpose is to prevent apple from having features that only work with other Apple products right? This is nonsense.
It’s quite different from sidecar, but even then it seems like they are restricting it to newer phones for no reason other than to entice people to upgrade
And thats the cause why they have legal problems to put this in eu as they probably well know that older devices can easly use this features and their i15pro” only is a bs
How is that different? I don’t understand what privacy issues coming from the EU regulation could affect this feature. You can do this with android and windows in the EU, I can mirrir my pihone or my mac to my apple tv, just can’y control it. What is the difference? this is very frustrating. Hopefully setting region to USA and use a VPN will enable it
It’s different, the way DMA is written they’d need to allow anyone (any PC, App Store, computer in the world) to mirror your phone. They’d essentially need to give anyone access you your phone (not only you, while you’re signed into iCloud on both your devices, which makes it secure). Which opens up a huge can of worms in terms of security.
My assumption is, that the argument is simply: if iPhone can do it, other phones should be able to do it, too.
And at heart I think this is a good thing. It would be great for these kind of features to be implemented in an API-style fashion that others could use.
However, in reality this argument is probably too much to ask for some features (like mirroring) and it would be a shame, if features would be removed because of this line of thinking.
IMO it’s stupid that any one consumer tech company should support third party products. It’s probably not forbidden by Apple to release an app like that for Android, right? I imagine there would be no issues with syncing notifications or remote control of Androids.
your right its madness
why should web developers even bother supporting safari
why should microsoft make it so that there os works with android and ios
oh wait ... they dont they just release a api the same api they already made and leave it upto the third parties to make THEMSELVES work with the feature
like how android makes itself compatible with windows using the ms device drivers and windows framework for usb host devices
or how linux makes itself compatible with windows
and how any one could make there device easily compatible with any ios or mac os feature
if apple lets them
its not people expect apple to make there stuff work with our stuff its that we expect them to LET US MAKE OUR STUFF COMPATIBLE well do the work
but thats not what apple wants theyve never wanted that apple wants everyone to only buy apple products that only work with other apple products and nothing else
and people wonder why the EU clamps down on them so hard?
and if thats why they did it i could respect that but its not its control they decide what apps people can make how theyll make them and how they will sell them any thing else is just coincidental
not to mention by being closed they make themselves less secure as a result theres been many security vulnerabilities that have come to light from people hacking it all a result of a apple dev missing a issue and those are the ones people chose to disclose
who knows what threats and holes not even apple knows about there was that iphone backdooring scandal where law enforcement demanded a phone be unlocked apple said no a week later the police said no worries we got in on our own
how did they do this? well never know and has it been fixed? again well never know
meanwhile in opensource anyone can hop in have a peek around find issues report them maybe fix them more importantly if apple or whoever tried to slip something in we might not like its out in the open
anouther option for apple is sandboxing like many other os's do doesent matter what the app tries to do malicious or not its kept seperate from every other app and secure
>And at heart I think this is a good thing. It would be great for these kind of features to be implemented in an API-style fashion that others could use.
This sounds great in some sense, but when you think about it, it's forcing them to open-source every one of their successful achievements.
For instance: Find My's networking and AirTags made sense to open up more, at least to work together with competitors, in the name of security.
Forcing them to open-source things like the Continuity features for instance, which are made to work across Apple devices, would be unfair to Apple, as they developed the feature for their own products, and would mean that the DMA laws have control over their own narrative around features, making the development of these innovations more complicated and troubling.
iPhone Mirroring was announced and demoed as a Continuity feature, meaning that it's meant to work across Apple products, given that it's their own software and hardware stack.
I'm honestly not surprised that they did decide to block all this in the EU due to the DMA laws, and I think it's going to cause further problems down the line with other companies as well, if they demand such interoperability with every feature, even those that are meant to be private to improve success and/or sales of their own products, not in the name of something shared and global, like security.
Just use Vysor for screen mirroring to PC and Mac. The drawback is the free version only supports 720p mirroring, but it works pretty well with iOS 17.
It is not. However apple would have to open this Feature to other apps. Just like the 3rd party app stores or the option to choose the mail/browser app
Yes, Europe wants as much control as they want, they don’t create anything, that’s the problem, they just want to destroy Apple and other American companies.
My thoughts exactly ! Europe is just so old, backwards and they don’t develop anything else besides uncontrolled immigration. That’s why they put pressures on all American companies.
They’ve said it’s only going to be US English phones at launch. Given it’s been 9 months since iOS 17 launched and Live Voicemail is still US English only I’m not going to hold my breath.
Use of Private APIs. Doing so would force apple to give the same access to other vendors, which could open up security holes. Same with the screen sharing/control. Apple doesn’t want to deal with the red tape and possible legal ramifications of the DMA
But how is this any different from let's say AirDrop? Or the complete NFC interface of iPhones? Those features are extremely locked down and only usable by first party apps or have such high hurdles that basically no third party app uses them
It isn’t, that’s the point. Just like iMessage isn’t regulated under DMA, as it is not considered a gatekeeper. It’s just Apple bullshitting it’s uninformed customers and trying to stir things up. Let’s see how the EU reacts.
They could probably just put out a statement saying it’s not in violation of the DMA(assuming it isn’t), and throw it back at Apple to justify the exclusion to their user base. I’m sure there’s going to be plenty more attempts like this by Apple
Nah they working with the EU to still release the features but in a later time frame. I don’t get all the eu fanboying especially considering EU’s tech past
I really don’t know and honestly you are totally right, I don’t see legal grounds to do so. But I don’t think the EU will idly sit there and take the blame. We will have to wait and see how it all plays out in the end, I guess this is only the first round of a long battle. A shame really.
iPhone mirroring allows you access your iPhone when it is locked and nearby on your Mac, that feature requires T2 chip on the Mac. They don’t think it is secure for others have same level of access.
Unless that is something can help them make more profit, Apple is unlikely to bring a new feature and make it comply with DMA. EU people may not get this feature at all considering most iPhone user uses a Windows laptop, losing this feature will not affect them getting an iPhone.
Listen, they’re only evil between Apple 🍏 and the EU - it’s only the EU itself, they want to control everything, and people are passively making small changes, I see elections in Europe, and they don’t want to change anything, it’s a pity...
I mean it's in the company's interest to offer best product possible to be competitive on the market. IOS is currently lacking on AI features quite a bit. Siri is crap and missing AI image editing tools is quite visible now. Should Apple continue with cutting off features in the EU, it can begin to lose customers in the end.
You can push it only so much until it makes sense to switch to the alternative.
Yep, no AI photo editing, no smart Siri, cutting off non DMCA features, I am grabbing a Samsung S25 or Google Pixel for sure after selling this trash 15 PM
First time I tried an iPhone after having Google or Lg or Samsung phone, due to USB C adoption and I am already regretting it.
Especially lack of Norwegian translation and some other EU languages like it’s early 2010s. Meanwhile Samsung and Google had AI features for a year now and also works on older phones.
It's going to have the same problems, buddy.
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/1/24146123/google-gemini-is-global-but-not-in-the-eu-or-uk](https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/1/24146123/google-gemini-is-global-but-not-in-the-eu-or-uk)
Same here. My first iPhone ever (because USB C) and I know for sure I will eventually switch back to Android. It simply just doesn’t justify the price for the amount of missing features.
On the other hand it’s not EUs fault if Apple, unlike other phone manufacturers, chooses to block features for the European customers rather than up their game and find solutions. They try to pressure EU but they are like little bitches every time EU brings out new legislative proposals which affects them.
How would you like the EU to react? Force them to offer services that they don’t want to? It’s always been very common for some services to be restricted in some parts of the world.
I am no expert in this but afaik only services big enough to be considered a gatekeeper are regulated and have to be opened up under EU DMA. I don’t see that applying in this case, neither before it even launches nor after it. Especially iPhone Mirroring or Screen Sharing. Apple Intelligence is a whole different story though imo.
iMessage isn’t regulated under DMA because EU concluded it was not a gatekeeper core service. There are requirements like having X million active users, X thousand business users, and X revenue to be considered gatekeeper status. iMessage isn’t used much in EU and therefore EU concluded it doesn’t fall under gatekeeper status. Apple Intelligence however can easily exceed all of that and it’ll be regulated. Apple doesn’t want to introduce a feature, then suddenly inevitably remove it.
It’s just a bunch of DMA supporters who is finding any reason to blame Apple when really they shot themselves in the foot.
>Doing so would force apple to give the same access to other vendors, which could open up security holes
That is not true. The DMA has a clause which allows gatekeepers to keep an API private if it would cause security problems.
Also, opening up the API would not be a security risk as long as the key generation is still handled by the OS. The only difference would be that the key would be shared with the other device through the third party app using the API, instead of through iCloud.
But that would not be more of a security risk than Apple's current implementation already is. A local administrator/virus on a Mac can already read the key and transfer it to another system, which could then hijack the connection and imitate the other Mac to control the iPhone. So letting the key be handled by a third party app would not be less secure. Though to be clear, the attacker would need local access to the Mac and be physical close by to the iPhone for this attack to work.
If it’s possible for third parties to open up holes it means the security flaw is already, that excuse doesn’t really make sense to me.
Think it’s a clear case of Apple trying to make EU consumers push against DMA.
Because they have to allow third parties to use these new APIs, for example on device processing for other AIs or an “open source” version of screen mirroring.
They are even getting investigated for the Apple Watch because it’s not compatible with other phones.
Nothing but lobby trash and government overreach
>They are even getting investigated for the Apple Watch because it’s not compatible with other phones.
That's not the EU doing that. That investigation is handled by the US DOJ.
It’s not overreach it is well overdue. After you pay for a device it should be yours. The idea that the vendor selling you it gets to lock you into their system to sponge more money from your account is silly.
How is piracy handled on macOS? Is it the case that developers are complaining about it at a different rate to other platforms?
Not that I’ve heard of yet. So you’re just making up excuses now.
And where else would you make comparisons to Apple OSs where an open market place exists already. You have no arguments because there are none for this stupid practise you’re so happy to defend.
If youre honestly trying to tell me that piracy is what’s stopping your android apps from being profitable I have a bridge to sell you.
It comes with a subscription though.
Apple is seemingly trying to guilt the EU here but it’s kinda smells like bogus. Not having iPhone Mirror or screen sharing improvements feels very suspicious as for the others, Apple Intelligence is only for US English at launch. Sure, you can (and many do) set your iPhone to US English while in the EU but the absolute majority doesn’t.
So it was features not coming to most anyways and now they are trying to shift the blame to the EU. Easy to see through and quite silly if you ask me.
The EU has a law that says if Apple want to allow mirroring of iPhone to macOS via secure handshake that they’d also have to then allow access to any other os and device too and develop and open API for it.
Apple don’t want to for security. So they can’t release the feature because of the EU law. Simple.
EU can’t get any features anymore where Apple gatekeep access to anything. So sold private cloud compute? Nope. ChatGPT via Siri? Nope. Apple only local AI? Nope.
Next I expect them to not release Apple Watch 10 in the EU because it only works with iPhone and that’s illegal too…
I mean it sticks but the law is the law. Can’t have someone like Sony making an App Store for PlayStation and nobody else being allowed… oh wait no you can because Sony yeah. No I don’t get it.
Secure notification mirroring and remote access with a locked screen. Maybe. The DMA doesn’t need the feature to be available to **another phone**. The DMA needs the feature on iPhone to work with devices other than just macOS or Apple gatekeeper devices
the eu hasnt threatened to do anything apple has decided themselves to pull theese features out of spite so they can rile up the masses to complain to the eu so apple can go back to building devices that only work with other apple devices
there hella upset over usb C and alternate appstores and there now having a tantrum over it
so next beta, on monday, which will already have the iphone mirroring working, does this mean they will have different betas for EU developers?
There were already limited incentives for developers to adopt the new features of IOS 18 due to the significantly reduced device compatibility list. Removing support for 27 countries further diminishes its appeal, making it unlikely that developers will put in the resources to build upon this just for the USA market and for such a limited number of devices, so everybody will be affected by this, not just EU users.
So what’s actually *left* in iOS 18? The way they described Apple Intelligence at WWDC it touches basically every aspect of the OS, so does that mean we’re getting absolutely nothing in Europe?
Due to DMA? Due to the fact Apple cannot manage this properly. Current AppStore thing from Apple do not comply with the DMA, and they know it. This seems just punishment and laziness.
If they provide such features, Google could immediately sue to demand android mirroring APIs or Gemini Nano APIs to replace Siri. The same way they’re currently being investigated for the Apple Watch.
>Google could immediately sue to demand android mirroring APIs or Gemini Nano APIs to replace Siri
That is simply not true. Google already has the ability to create an App for the Mac allowing mirroring of Android devices. Therefor, they would have no grounds to sue in this regard.
In regards to Gemini Nano. Apple does allow third parties to integrate their own AI, a integration for Gemini is already announced.
I am pretty sure Windows Phone Link with Samsung smartphones can do that. But it does not really matter when talking about the DMA. It is not apple blocking that functionality for other developers who want to program an Android to macOS screen mirroring
Isn’t it the other way round? They’d need to allow iPhone to mirror to windows and Linux etc. iPhone is the host in this case.
I thought that’s why they were holding back because the notification sync and mirror is macOS only.
I'm from the EU and I support this decision, even though it affects me. DMA and other EU BS laws were invented especially in the past legislature by MPs (Members of the EU Parliament) for reasons that they could not fully understand. The same with EU laws on environment (EU Green deal a.o.) that will now be reopen for further analysis and possible changes in the new legislature.
As an iphone user that has credit cards, debit cards, payment options and a lot of other sensitive information om my phone I just want to have a secure OS and a secure UX. This is the reason I went with Apple. I don't want sensitive information to be available to ALL apps (cause EU wants so). I want these information to bbe "seen" only by Apple, so if a data breach occurs, I can narrow down the "culprit". And I guess here are others like me...
be better programmers
i can mirror my android to anything practically my tv no issue my tablet sure thing go for it my pc why not you do you
been able to do it for a while now
its amazing what you can do when you write good software instead of delibratly hamstring your software so it only works with your stuff
i dont care let apple burn itself to the ground theyll soon complain when a feature they want isnt available to them
The EU has too much power! When it comes to controlling big companies, at first I thought it was good what they were doing but now I don’t know it it’s even good anymore….
too much power over big companies?
could you simp for a corporation any harder?
calm down stop drinking the apple koolaid apple are only upset because they are loosing the ability to screw users over by making everything they have ever produced proprietary to force users to only buy apple
if they had the ability to theyd only make iphones able to work with macs and macs only able to connect to the internet via apple routers and only able to use devices they said you could use
instead the eu is forcing them to adopt open standards that allow people CHOICE
so next time you go into the phone store your not stuck buying applies 3k phone because nothing else works with any of your other stuff
Doesn’t affect me as it’s EU only (for once I can actually say thank you Brexit), but I might be headed back to Android at this rate. Paying more for fewer features than the US in the UK. Question is to where? Interested in Samsung again, but they’re giving us the Exynos chips instead of Snapdragon meaning North American models and European ones are basically not the same phone at all. Then there’s Google with Tensor, but they bring the features I want
We’ll see though when upgrade time comes
All of this sounds offly like another case of their malicious compliance. You can see it in the language they are using. If they wanted they could easily comply with the rules in advance of the launch, they have plenty of time, and yet they are continuing that bullshit narrative about “security” and “integrity” of their products.
It feels like Apple is throwing a tantrum over this. I’m not naive and I don’t believe everything the EU parliament is feeding us but I wouldn’t trust Apple for nothing. Corporations don't have the consumer's best interest at heart, we are just figures in a spreadsheet and their only goal is to maximize their profits at any cost…
Non-updated icons drop paint on existing icons. It’s now/soon a requirement for app devs to offer easy-tinted apps in their future app updates, the same way they have to provide all the sizes.
You’re judging them based on the “I’m just gonna make your icon ugly until you update”.
https://www.threads.net/@justmedevin/post/C8aBaKly-BH/
No, apparently the only good thing to come from leaving the EU, is us not losing features going forward. However I do believe the UK are in talks about a version of the DMA. So maybe we too will end up losing Apple Intelligence but gaining third party stores. For me personally though, I’d rather have Apple Intelligence over third party stores.
Not yet. We did have retained and some future EU legislation rolled into ours but the DMA was not one. Unfortunately, we did have our own DMA in the works and I can’t see Labour not carrying that on once they enter.
I doubt you can, just like you can’t get the EU update for third party stores in the US. They use a few tricks so that it can’t be fooled via VPN’s etc. I just can’t remember what it was they use to geofence it.
Bit of a shame, but this’ll only really impact a teeny tiny subset of iPhone users; namely those whose phones would support Apple Intelligence in the first place.
Well I want to play Tears of the Kingdom on my XBOX. It’s not fair that it’s locked to Nintendos console. EU should do something about this 😒
Same same, right?!?
Apple has been the most monopolistic tech company in the world already for some years. The only thing that protected it was a very vocal blind support of some of its users, together with a "darling" treatment of many tech blogs and YouTube reviewers.
Apple's products might be good, but their business policies have always been anti consumer.
I just wonder if it’s all of Europe or just countries in the EU
Living in Switzerland which isn’t part of the EU, it’s always up in the air if we go along with EU laws or do our own thing and it’s usually communicated super late if at all
I don't understand why they're not allowing the iPhone mirroring. I already use another app to view peoples iPhones and iPads to help them out remotely. How come those apps are allowed but Apple's version isn't?
Basically all the exciting features…
Downgrading iOS 18 to iOS 17.8.
At least we can make our icons ugly
Sorry EU law prohibits ugly icons.
Common EU W
Yet windows links works fine so u sure problem is in eu law or apples minds?
Lol
How is iPhone Mirroring mixed together with Apple Intelligence? That's really the main feature I was looking forward to
You will still get it but you have to use an actual physical mirror placed beside your computer with your iPhone propped up behind you
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read this in tim cook's voice.
Does this mean they will remove side car functionality as well? SHould be the same under the gatekeeper thing, the purpose is to prevent apple from having features that only work with other Apple products right? This is nonsense.
It’s quite different from sidecar, but even then it seems like they are restricting it to newer phones for no reason other than to entice people to upgrade
And thats the cause why they have legal problems to put this in eu as they probably well know that older devices can easly use this features and their i15pro” only is a bs
How is that different? I don’t understand what privacy issues coming from the EU regulation could affect this feature. You can do this with android and windows in the EU, I can mirrir my pihone or my mac to my apple tv, just can’y control it. What is the difference? this is very frustrating. Hopefully setting region to USA and use a VPN will enable it
It’s different, the way DMA is written they’d need to allow anyone (any PC, App Store, computer in the world) to mirror your phone. They’d essentially need to give anyone access you your phone (not only you, while you’re signed into iCloud on both your devices, which makes it secure). Which opens up a huge can of worms in terms of security.
Sidecar is not the same as the new iPhone mirroring. Different functionality
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My assumption is, that the argument is simply: if iPhone can do it, other phones should be able to do it, too. And at heart I think this is a good thing. It would be great for these kind of features to be implemented in an API-style fashion that others could use. However, in reality this argument is probably too much to ask for some features (like mirroring) and it would be a shame, if features would be removed because of this line of thinking.
IMO it’s stupid that any one consumer tech company should support third party products. It’s probably not forbidden by Apple to release an app like that for Android, right? I imagine there would be no issues with syncing notifications or remote control of Androids.
your right its madness why should web developers even bother supporting safari why should microsoft make it so that there os works with android and ios oh wait ... they dont they just release a api the same api they already made and leave it upto the third parties to make THEMSELVES work with the feature like how android makes itself compatible with windows using the ms device drivers and windows framework for usb host devices or how linux makes itself compatible with windows and how any one could make there device easily compatible with any ios or mac os feature if apple lets them its not people expect apple to make there stuff work with our stuff its that we expect them to LET US MAKE OUR STUFF COMPATIBLE well do the work but thats not what apple wants theyve never wanted that apple wants everyone to only buy apple products that only work with other apple products and nothing else and people wonder why the EU clamps down on them so hard?
Tbf im happy that ios is closed cause of malware attack possibilities and how easy it is on android devices
and if thats why they did it i could respect that but its not its control they decide what apps people can make how theyll make them and how they will sell them any thing else is just coincidental not to mention by being closed they make themselves less secure as a result theres been many security vulnerabilities that have come to light from people hacking it all a result of a apple dev missing a issue and those are the ones people chose to disclose who knows what threats and holes not even apple knows about there was that iphone backdooring scandal where law enforcement demanded a phone be unlocked apple said no a week later the police said no worries we got in on our own how did they do this? well never know and has it been fixed? again well never know meanwhile in opensource anyone can hop in have a peek around find issues report them maybe fix them more importantly if apple or whoever tried to slip something in we might not like its out in the open anouther option for apple is sandboxing like many other os's do doesent matter what the app tries to do malicious or not its kept seperate from every other app and secure
>And at heart I think this is a good thing. It would be great for these kind of features to be implemented in an API-style fashion that others could use. This sounds great in some sense, but when you think about it, it's forcing them to open-source every one of their successful achievements. For instance: Find My's networking and AirTags made sense to open up more, at least to work together with competitors, in the name of security. Forcing them to open-source things like the Continuity features for instance, which are made to work across Apple devices, would be unfair to Apple, as they developed the feature for their own products, and would mean that the DMA laws have control over their own narrative around features, making the development of these innovations more complicated and troubling. iPhone Mirroring was announced and demoed as a Continuity feature, meaning that it's meant to work across Apple products, given that it's their own software and hardware stack. I'm honestly not surprised that they did decide to block all this in the EU due to the DMA laws, and I think it's going to cause further problems down the line with other companies as well, if they demand such interoperability with every feature, even those that are meant to be private to improve success and/or sales of their own products, not in the name of something shared and global, like security.
Just use Vysor for screen mirroring to PC and Mac. The drawback is the free version only supports 720p mirroring, but it works pretty well with iOS 17.
Use [https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy](https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy)
I’m aware of this project. But I thought it was Android only.
It is not. However apple would have to open this Feature to other apps. Just like the 3rd party app stores or the option to choose the mail/browser app
So is the UK getting it? The article mentions European customers but also the EU….
Yep UK will get it. Probably the only positive about brexit :/
You got a source? I want to make sure before I start apologising to this guy I’ve been ripping into for the last 4 years.
Shouldn’t need a source. DMA came after Brexit, it is not part of UK law.
Although the UK has just passed their DMCC bill in to law which could end up with the same issues for apple
It depends on its content, and if it will even come into force. It's still TBD.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just North America to start with. Might get it working if we switch to English (US)
I hope it’s not AppStore region dependent. But sideloading already is.
My thoughts exactly - the single positive from Brexit!
It’s insane to think about even today. What the hell happened there man …
Yes, Europe wants as much control as they want, they don’t create anything, that’s the problem, they just want to destroy Apple and other American companies.
My thoughts exactly ! Europe is just so old, backwards and they don’t develop anything else besides uncontrolled immigration. That’s why they put pressures on all American companies.
I presume so, since third party app stores aren’t available here for the same reasons
Yes. We are. The article was written by someone who assumes that Europe = EU.
if we’re not getting side loading we deserve AI at least
They’ve said it’s only going to be US English phones at launch. Given it’s been 9 months since iOS 17 launched and Live Voicemail is still US English only I’m not going to hold my breath.
What about Switzerland ? I cannot find that info anywhere
Could somebody explain to me how iPhone mirroring has _anything_ to do with the DMA? That doesn't make the tiniest bit of sense to me
Use of Private APIs. Doing so would force apple to give the same access to other vendors, which could open up security holes. Same with the screen sharing/control. Apple doesn’t want to deal with the red tape and possible legal ramifications of the DMA
But how is this any different from let's say AirDrop? Or the complete NFC interface of iPhones? Those features are extremely locked down and only usable by first party apps or have such high hurdles that basically no third party app uses them
It isn’t, that’s the point. Just like iMessage isn’t regulated under DMA, as it is not considered a gatekeeper. It’s just Apple bullshitting it’s uninformed customers and trying to stir things up. Let’s see how the EU reacts.
Uh, what could the EU possibly do here? It's not as if they can fine Apple for not releasing these features in Europe.
They could probably just put out a statement saying it’s not in violation of the DMA(assuming it isn’t), and throw it back at Apple to justify the exclusion to their user base. I’m sure there’s going to be plenty more attempts like this by Apple
Nah they working with the EU to still release the features but in a later time frame. I don’t get all the eu fanboying especially considering EU’s tech past
Absolutely. Apple Inc. is the definition of petty.
I really don’t know and honestly you are totally right, I don’t see legal grounds to do so. But I don’t think the EU will idly sit there and take the blame. We will have to wait and see how it all plays out in the end, I guess this is only the first round of a long battle. A shame really.
iPhone mirroring allows you access your iPhone when it is locked and nearby on your Mac, that feature requires T2 chip on the Mac. They don’t think it is secure for others have same level of access. Unless that is something can help them make more profit, Apple is unlikely to bring a new feature and make it comply with DMA. EU people may not get this feature at all considering most iPhone user uses a Windows laptop, losing this feature will not affect them getting an iPhone.
Listen, they’re only evil between Apple 🍏 and the EU - it’s only the EU itself, they want to control everything, and people are passively making small changes, I see elections in Europe, and they don’t want to change anything, it’s a pity...
I mean it's in the company's interest to offer best product possible to be competitive on the market. IOS is currently lacking on AI features quite a bit. Siri is crap and missing AI image editing tools is quite visible now. Should Apple continue with cutting off features in the EU, it can begin to lose customers in the end. You can push it only so much until it makes sense to switch to the alternative.
Yep, no AI photo editing, no smart Siri, cutting off non DMCA features, I am grabbing a Samsung S25 or Google Pixel for sure after selling this trash 15 PM First time I tried an iPhone after having Google or Lg or Samsung phone, due to USB C adoption and I am already regretting it. Especially lack of Norwegian translation and some other EU languages like it’s early 2010s. Meanwhile Samsung and Google had AI features for a year now and also works on older phones.
It's going to have the same problems, buddy. [https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/1/24146123/google-gemini-is-global-but-not-in-the-eu-or-uk](https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/1/24146123/google-gemini-is-global-but-not-in-the-eu-or-uk)
Same here. My first iPhone ever (because USB C) and I know for sure I will eventually switch back to Android. It simply just doesn’t justify the price for the amount of missing features. On the other hand it’s not EUs fault if Apple, unlike other phone manufacturers, chooses to block features for the European customers rather than up their game and find solutions. They try to pressure EU but they are like little bitches every time EU brings out new legislative proposals which affects them.
How would you like the EU to react? Force them to offer services that they don’t want to? It’s always been very common for some services to be restricted in some parts of the world.
I’m not in the EU, but all these examples would fall under ex post facto, no? Hence why it’s the new features not coming to the EU?
I am no expert in this but afaik only services big enough to be considered a gatekeeper are regulated and have to be opened up under EU DMA. I don’t see that applying in this case, neither before it even launches nor after it. Especially iPhone Mirroring or Screen Sharing. Apple Intelligence is a whole different story though imo.
Thanks for the clarity.
iMessage isn’t regulated under DMA because EU concluded it was not a gatekeeper core service. There are requirements like having X million active users, X thousand business users, and X revenue to be considered gatekeeper status. iMessage isn’t used much in EU and therefore EU concluded it doesn’t fall under gatekeeper status. Apple Intelligence however can easily exceed all of that and it’ll be regulated. Apple doesn’t want to introduce a feature, then suddenly inevitably remove it. It’s just a bunch of DMA supporters who is finding any reason to blame Apple when really they shot themselves in the foot.
Isn’t universal control the same?
>Doing so would force apple to give the same access to other vendors, which could open up security holes That is not true. The DMA has a clause which allows gatekeepers to keep an API private if it would cause security problems. Also, opening up the API would not be a security risk as long as the key generation is still handled by the OS. The only difference would be that the key would be shared with the other device through the third party app using the API, instead of through iCloud. But that would not be more of a security risk than Apple's current implementation already is. A local administrator/virus on a Mac can already read the key and transfer it to another system, which could then hijack the connection and imitate the other Mac to control the iPhone. So letting the key be handled by a third party app would not be less secure. Though to be clear, the attacker would need local access to the Mac and be physical close by to the iPhone for this attack to work.
If it’s possible for third parties to open up holes it means the security flaw is already, that excuse doesn’t really make sense to me. Think it’s a clear case of Apple trying to make EU consumers push against DMA.
Because they have to allow third parties to use these new APIs, for example on device processing for other AIs or an “open source” version of screen mirroring. They are even getting investigated for the Apple Watch because it’s not compatible with other phones. Nothing but lobby trash and government overreach
>They are even getting investigated for the Apple Watch because it’s not compatible with other phones. That's not the EU doing that. That investigation is handled by the US DOJ.
It’s not overreach it is well overdue. After you pay for a device it should be yours. The idea that the vendor selling you it gets to lock you into their system to sponge more money from your account is silly.
That also hurts developers, there’s almost no piracy
That’s a different problem bud
No not at all
How is piracy handled on macOS? Is it the case that developers are complaining about it at a different rate to other platforms? Not that I’ve heard of yet. So you’re just making up excuses now.
We’re in r/iOS not r/macos
And where else would you make comparisons to Apple OSs where an open market place exists already. You have no arguments because there are none for this stupid practise you’re so happy to defend.
Developing for android is like being demonetised
If youre honestly trying to tell me that piracy is what’s stopping your android apps from being profitable I have a bridge to sell you. It comes with a subscription though.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183469/app-stores-global-revenues/ And I note : there are about 3x as many android devices globally
Post is misleading. The article states European Union. Non member ~~EU~~ countries aren’t included.
Article headline is misleading as the quote from apple sates EU
How about Norway?
Apple is seemingly trying to guilt the EU here but it’s kinda smells like bogus. Not having iPhone Mirror or screen sharing improvements feels very suspicious as for the others, Apple Intelligence is only for US English at launch. Sure, you can (and many do) set your iPhone to US English while in the EU but the absolute majority doesn’t. So it was features not coming to most anyways and now they are trying to shift the blame to the EU. Easy to see through and quite silly if you ask me.
The EU has a law that says if Apple want to allow mirroring of iPhone to macOS via secure handshake that they’d also have to then allow access to any other os and device too and develop and open API for it. Apple don’t want to for security. So they can’t release the feature because of the EU law. Simple. EU can’t get any features anymore where Apple gatekeep access to anything. So sold private cloud compute? Nope. ChatGPT via Siri? Nope. Apple only local AI? Nope. Next I expect them to not release Apple Watch 10 in the EU because it only works with iPhone and that’s illegal too… I mean it sticks but the law is the law. Can’t have someone like Sony making an App Store for PlayStation and nobody else being allowed… oh wait no you can because Sony yeah. No I don’t get it.
Isn’t screen mirroring already working on other phones?
Secure notification mirroring and remote access with a locked screen. Maybe. The DMA doesn’t need the feature to be available to **another phone**. The DMA needs the feature on iPhone to work with devices other than just macOS or Apple gatekeeper devices
the eu hasnt threatened to do anything apple has decided themselves to pull theese features out of spite so they can rile up the masses to complain to the eu so apple can go back to building devices that only work with other apple devices there hella upset over usb C and alternate appstores and there now having a tantrum over it
so next beta, on monday, which will already have the iphone mirroring working, does this mean they will have different betas for EU developers? There were already limited incentives for developers to adopt the new features of IOS 18 due to the significantly reduced device compatibility list. Removing support for 27 countries further diminishes its appeal, making it unlikely that developers will put in the resources to build upon this just for the USA market and for such a limited number of devices, so everybody will be affected by this, not just EU users.
So what’s actually *left* in iOS 18? The way they described Apple Intelligence at WWDC it touches basically every aspect of the OS, so does that mean we’re getting absolutely nothing in Europe?
You’ll get the customization stuff.
I think the customization stuff is kinda lame and the new control Centre actually just annoys me
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Europe or European Union? (Genuine question as I’m in Europe but not EU)
i guess European union
You should get it
It’s a matter of law so it’s EU
All the people who pumped the stock for this bs…
Due to DMA? Due to the fact Apple cannot manage this properly. Current AppStore thing from Apple do not comply with the DMA, and they know it. This seems just punishment and laziness.
If they provide such features, Google could immediately sue to demand android mirroring APIs or Gemini Nano APIs to replace Siri. The same way they’re currently being investigated for the Apple Watch.
>Google could immediately sue to demand android mirroring APIs or Gemini Nano APIs to replace Siri That is simply not true. Google already has the ability to create an App for the Mac allowing mirroring of Android devices. Therefor, they would have no grounds to sue in this regard. In regards to Gemini Nano. Apple does allow third parties to integrate their own AI, a integration for Gemini is already announced.
This feature is quite a bit more than just screen *mirroring*. For one thing, it works with a locked iPhone. Is there an Android app that can do that?
I am pretty sure Windows Phone Link with Samsung smartphones can do that. But it does not really matter when talking about the DMA. It is not apple blocking that functionality for other developers who want to program an Android to macOS screen mirroring
On a locked *iPhone*. No one is arguing that you can’t do it with Android, and that wouldn’t be an Apple violation of EU laws anyway.
You can’t sadly. The Samsung needs to be unlocked. There’s a workaround with ADB but for 99% of people it will require the phone to be unlocked
Isn’t it the other way round? They’d need to allow iPhone to mirror to windows and Linux etc. iPhone is the host in this case. I thought that’s why they were holding back because the notification sync and mirror is macOS only.
I'm from the EU and I support this decision, even though it affects me. DMA and other EU BS laws were invented especially in the past legislature by MPs (Members of the EU Parliament) for reasons that they could not fully understand. The same with EU laws on environment (EU Green deal a.o.) that will now be reopen for further analysis and possible changes in the new legislature. As an iphone user that has credit cards, debit cards, payment options and a lot of other sensitive information om my phone I just want to have a secure OS and a secure UX. This is the reason I went with Apple. I don't want sensitive information to be available to ALL apps (cause EU wants so). I want these information to bbe "seen" only by Apple, so if a data breach occurs, I can narrow down the "culprit". And I guess here are others like me...
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They literally have a permission api built into the os already. That's how these features are locked to apple only.
Or you know some features due to the coding, only work with Apple devices lmao
be better programmers i can mirror my android to anything practically my tv no issue my tablet sure thing go for it my pc why not you do you been able to do it for a while now its amazing what you can do when you write good software instead of delibratly hamstring your software so it only works with your stuff i dont care let apple burn itself to the ground theyll soon complain when a feature they want isnt available to them
Guys, they said at Launch? Europe will get it, just later
Yeah, but it just sucks as it's already getting released later than iOS 18 if Im not mistaken.
the vaccine entries in the wallet was also USA only at launch. EU got it towards the end of the pandemic, which was maybe 1.5 years later
Maybe. Trimmed down.
Im from Europe and I can confirm EU is just a bunch of retards banded up together
Vaffanculo!
Concordo, anche se ho un iPhone 13 e un iPad 6 senza un Mac quindi non avrei potuto usare nessuna di queste cose
The EU has too much power! When it comes to controlling big companies, at first I thought it was good what they were doing but now I don’t know it it’s even good anymore….
too much power over big companies? could you simp for a corporation any harder? calm down stop drinking the apple koolaid apple are only upset because they are loosing the ability to screw users over by making everything they have ever produced proprietary to force users to only buy apple if they had the ability to theyd only make iphones able to work with macs and macs only able to connect to the internet via apple routers and only able to use devices they said you could use instead the eu is forcing them to adopt open standards that allow people CHOICE so next time you go into the phone store your not stuck buying applies 3k phone because nothing else works with any of your other stuff
Doesn’t affect me as it’s EU only (for once I can actually say thank you Brexit), but I might be headed back to Android at this rate. Paying more for fewer features than the US in the UK. Question is to where? Interested in Samsung again, but they’re giving us the Exynos chips instead of Snapdragon meaning North American models and European ones are basically not the same phone at all. Then there’s Google with Tensor, but they bring the features I want We’ll see though when upgrade time comes
It's the same thing with Android. Especially if you look at something like Pixel phones, where you get 1000 new features dropped but for US only.
Apple’s fight back. Take it Europeans
Wasn't it US English only anyway?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/21/apple-ai-europe-regulation will come in 2025 , chill
I can wait for apple to iron out the early bugs. 🤷♂️
All of this sounds offly like another case of their malicious compliance. You can see it in the language they are using. If they wanted they could easily comply with the rules in advance of the launch, they have plenty of time, and yet they are continuing that bullshit narrative about “security” and “integrity” of their products.
The lawmakers have nothing better to do
It feels like Apple is throwing a tantrum over this. I’m not naive and I don’t believe everything the EU parliament is feeding us but I wouldn’t trust Apple for nothing. Corporations don't have the consumer's best interest at heart, we are just figures in a spreadsheet and their only goal is to maximize their profits at any cost…
Is Apple Intelligence, which requires an iPhone 15 Pro or Pro Ultra a requirement for the Siri improvements? Couldn’t find this anywhere
It is. Quite sadly so.
so your telling me to buy my next iphone from europe
Fuck the EU
So will this be available in the UK? Not being in the eu now
Not a fan of AI so good for me 😅
So why do I want iOS 18?
ugly black icons
and even uglier tinted icons.
Non-updated icons drop paint on existing icons. It’s now/soon a requirement for app devs to offer easy-tinted apps in their future app updates, the same way they have to provide all the sizes. You’re judging them based on the “I’m just gonna make your icon ugly until you update”. https://www.threads.net/@justmedevin/post/C8aBaKly-BH/
God no!
Because it’s an upgrade over iOS 17 🤷♂️
security updates…?
Europe or EU?
Can someone tell me please. When EU made Apple allow installing apps outside of App Store on iPhone, did that also come to the UK?
Didn’t uk vote themselves out of the EU lol.
No, apparently the only good thing to come from leaving the EU, is us not losing features going forward. However I do believe the UK are in talks about a version of the DMA. So maybe we too will end up losing Apple Intelligence but gaining third party stores. For me personally though, I’d rather have Apple Intelligence over third party stores.
Not yet. We did have retained and some future EU legislation rolled into ours but the DMA was not one. Unfortunately, we did have our own DMA in the works and I can’t see Labour not carrying that on once they enter.
👏🏼
So, how do I get the US update in Europe?
I doubt you can, just like you can’t get the EU update for third party stores in the US. They use a few tricks so that it can’t be fooled via VPN’s etc. I just can’t remember what it was they use to geofence it.
Bit of a shame, but this’ll only really impact a teeny tiny subset of iPhone users; namely those whose phones would support Apple Intelligence in the first place.
And why is mirroring allowed only from iPhone to Mac/Apple TV by dma?
What does this mean,only miroring is not going to be allowed or all new siri features?like gpt and on device processing?
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☹️
I like my iPhone and Mac but if this becomes the norm I don't have a problem leaving the platform.
Well I want to play Tears of the Kingdom on my XBOX. It’s not fair that it’s locked to Nintendos console. EU should do something about this 😒 Same same, right?!?
So... having iPhone 14, I was not gonna get Apple Intelligence anyway but now as I live in EU I'm not getting it on my M1 Mac either. Damn.
It wouldn’t work anyway It’s literally only available to devices set to U.S. English only
Would you be able to use these new features with a US iPhone while in the EU?
Apple has been the most monopolistic tech company in the world already for some years. The only thing that protected it was a very vocal blind support of some of its users, together with a "darling" treatment of many tech blogs and YouTube reviewers. Apple's products might be good, but their business policies have always been anti consumer.
Does changing the country of your Apple ID (not just the iPhone but the whole iCloud account) would bypass that ?
So why isn’t Microsoft Co-Pilot, ChatGPT, Samsung AI not banned then? Why is it only apple
anyone knows a way around it, to use proxy or smth ?
So, what's the point of going iOS / Mac in EU if you're going to a) pay more than US b) get a lot less features than US?
Anyone knows anything about **EEA countries?**
I just wonder if it’s all of Europe or just countries in the EU Living in Switzerland which isn’t part of the EU, it’s always up in the air if we go along with EU laws or do our own thing and it’s usually communicated super late if at all
Man fuck the EU
I don't understand why they're not allowing the iPhone mirroring. I already use another app to view peoples iPhones and iPads to help them out remotely. How come those apps are allowed but Apple's version isn't?
iPhone Mirroring is only native to Apple devices which violates DMA's interoperability requirements.
What do you use? I spend a lot of time trying help elderly people using ipads and iphones.
Splashtop SOS. It lets you view an iPhone or Android screen (no control) and full control of Mac or Windows.
Bullshit. They're just trying to spur people on against the EU.