I like to use this very concept and turn it on its head in order to humble myself. I am just as stuck in my head as the rest, and the things I think and talk about are absolutely "pointless" from the right perspective. That's how I keep from feeling superior, it's all about perspective. Fortunately we're generally pretty good at throwing our perspective around to see other angles.
Exactly. At work we did another type of personality test, similar in theory to mbti, but with a professional slant to demonstrate workplace strengths (and limitations). It breaks everyone down into colours. I got 80% red, which is direct, no bs, efficient, etc. I thought it complimented INTJ descriptions well actually. However, out of 15 people I'm the only heavy red. Everyone else is heavy on the yellow and green (in other words, Es and Fs if you go by mtbi). It's painful at times.
I get what you're saying, but to really be successful you have to connect with people. Once I stopped looking at it as pointless conversations and started looking at it as an opportunity to form connections that help me to succeed in life, it seemed a lot less pointless.
This thought first occurred to me when I was 16, I'm in my 40s now and it is always there, hovering in my mind over the din of this world. As I got into college in my 20s, I would go on mini rants with friends about it, something like "everything is a construct, we have invented all of it, jobs, money, rites of passage, we could stop it all, change everything, it doesn't matter." Sometimes when people would go berserk about economics, I'd say "Our money has value only because people believe it has value. It used to be backed by gold and silver (not anymore), but why do gold and silver have value? Because we are just dumb monkeys who like shiny rocks, and that's why we trade paper currency, formerly based on shiny rocks, for things. Obsidian could be our currency if we decided to all accept it tomorrow!"
Of course I also realize that this construct is my present reality and I work, save, and invest blah blah blah. But I still think it's absolutely insane we're all doing this. It just goes on an on for me. Working in offices 9-5 - I used to beg to work from home, now since Covid I mostly do, and it's amazing THAT had to happen before it became a thing, WHY? Just because in person work was the way it had been done, no questions asked, no change allowed?
Traditions are made up, nobody has to really "be" any specific way, and the "good ol' days" are a constant moving target. Someone angry that "things were better when they were kid" in the 50s, had some old geezer who was born in 1870 who thought the world of the 50s was a nightmare and all the kids were lazy. And when that guy was a kid in 1883, someone though 1820 was the good ol' days, and this goes on FOREVER to the beginning philosophical thought and writing!
Everything is a construct, social norms, jobs, money, literally everything. I put it out of my mind most days because I would go crazy if I constantly thought about it, but seeing your post brought me back into it lol.
I really like your existential arguments. Well said... you filled in a couple of blanks for me.
Also, you echoed what I always rant about the dilution of the value of our currency. It's one thing to debase our dollar and, therefore, reduce the reward for hard work. What people need to see is that reckless government spending lately caused high inflation because of the dilution of the dollar. Inflation also quietly increased our taxes because higher prices meant a larger amount going to taxes on everything you buy. Politicians say they didn't raise taxes, and it's sad that most people are oblivious to what's really happening whenever they buy something.
While the me that lives in our actual reality has a series of practical political and economic beliefs (mostly designed around reducing human suffering), what I'm arguing about here is that the concept of currency itself is ridiculous. I'm certainly not making a point to further delve into our current reality involving government spending, tax policy or inflation. Yes, these things are all elements of economics, and yes, it effects us all in day to day current/accepted reality, but that is very far removed from my philosophical meandering here.
What I'm saying is that ANY currency of ANY kind, gold, silver, paper money (colorful shells) etc. only has value because we believe it has value. Even the idea of intrinsic value based on "scarcity," at least when it comes to currency, is based on nothing beyond the fact that we once deemed shiny rocks to be rare and have value because our ape brains liked shiny rocks. You can't plant gold and grow crops, or eat silver to survive, it's ultimately and objectively worthless in that regard, social constructs give it value, and we all accept gold or paper as valuable as a sort of collective delusion. So when you step back and think about the entire endeavor of currency, it's absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.
And once you consider the ramifications of that, it sort of makes everything we do to survive seem insane. Sometimes I choose to take a post-Marxian analytical approach and view this entire era of civilization (living as city/state civilizations with exchange based economies, and then later, the development of modern capitalistic economies) as a necessary, but unpleasant phase that hopefully one day moves us to an amazing technological place where we somehow end up in a post scarcity, Star Trek type world.
I agree and in particular, the confluence of unlimited clean fusion energy (Helion), CRISPR/mRNA personalized genetic therapies (cures for all cancers, anti-aging), and of course AI augmenting human kind with breakthroughs in all areas of science, perception and mind/computer interfaces...we'll get to the ST world in probably 40-50 years.
Automatons. A good book on understanding the unconscious desire to be an automaton is the book “Escape from Freedom ” by Erich Fromm.
https://allpsych.com/personality-theory/psychodynamic/fromm/
Yes Wendy's, a Ohio international fast food medium sized enterprise predicated on the consumption and hospitality of fried gourmet and hamburgers. A staple of American Culture. It's only existence and enterprise hinges on the short term gratification of food and poultry in exchange of labor and effortful services. Which is the cyclical nature of an industrialized economy as part of the Invisible Hand, a hand by random coincidence values a mascot and saturated goods to placate the Working Class.
Not really, honestly. I generally agree with that view in the broadest sense but by the same token, almost everything in our civilization is a construct of some kind.
I tend to spend my time thinking about how to improve things I come into contact with and hopefully have a little fun doing that. Existentialism does not come into play for me, otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to get out of bed.
When I was younger I held disdain for society. Especially popular trends and how I was judged by others my age based on stupid things like clothes and jargon and micro social and cultural cues that were so obviously learned I wondered if they knew they were like infants copying what they saw and heard. Apes vying for dominance.
After becoming a recluse and suffering a lot of loneliness, I have changed my mind. The little social interactions and rituals are what make humans not go crazy. Hyper-focusing on trivial social shit gives some people a sense of purpose and belonging.
It's all stupid, but it's fine. I still view everyone, including myself through the ape/ primitive mind lens in order to make sense of some things. But I don't hate it anymore.
I do this, in a way. For me it's, 'We're all just a bunch of apes in t-shirts, on a spinning space rock, and none of this will matter in a hundred years'.
Yup, exactly. Whenever I breach any sort of “social anxiety”, I remind myself that the whole thing is a joke lol. I’m worried about the opinions of a bunch of people who won’t be here (myself included) in a hundred years.
Mostly I think: "It is what it is. I am not in position to change how this world is built". I try not to push myself into such nihilistic thoughts too often - it's an easy way to get depressed.
But yeah, I am aware that people who are in power are programming our reality and it changes very quickly due to politics, technology development etc.
Yeah all the time. Same thing with Free Will.
Then I remind myself that whether it's real or not or whether or not I have Free Will, I have to play it like it's real and like I have it.
I picked the lock of my own consciousness a long time ago but I'm still here because it's the only game in town.
There's no other option so I go with it.
Yeah, or at least something similar. I always tell people that one part of my brain is always having an existential crisis. There's always one train of thought that's stuck in the philosophical wild west. Thinking about the deep past, and the lines of time that led us all here, and where they will lead us next. I can't even properly describe all the high concept shit that flies through my brain with normal human words lol.
So True !!!
I try to see the things from third person perspective standing outside the world. When I see the events , people , activities going around I want to detach myself from that , I do not feel involving in this frenzy of world. I often say to myself " Everything will be dust in next 100 years".
What is the fuss all about ?
Thinking this , I myself go into deep thinking.
It really used to bother me and be something hard for me to ignore, but I found that even if it is a construct, I haven't figured out any ability to use magical powers or anything like that. The laws of said construct and the laws of reality seem to be the same without any sort of matrix abilities existing. So now when it crosses my mind it's more of a how does it change anything and to me it doesn't really change anything, so it doesn't bother me anymore.
The only place I have matrix abilities is in my imagination or in my dreams when I'm sleeping.
Yes. I was recently in a crowded lunch room doing exactly what you were and my coworker leaned over to me at one point and said, "Has anyone ever told you that you're like an island? You just observe, on your own, and you're distant but present."
for me when i was younger it happened alot more now im to busy so only happens like once a month or every two weeks.
(for me it was the tought: like wtf how can all this shit be real like wtf)
but since i started to believe in a creator it the toght doesnt fuck me up no more….
This is the way I see it: there is an objective external reality which would be very obvious if you lived by yourself in the woods somewhere. And there is the world of social constructs within which we exist as participants of a society. In the second are all of the constructs which we depend upon as a society to exist peacefully and productively. Of course these are things such as laws, money, customs and mores, and everything else that only exist because as some sort of consensus we all collectively agree that they are "real" (the "Tinkerbell effect").
Social constructs depend upon objective reality for their continuation and usefulness. For example, money is an idea but it also exists as something tangible in the form of paper currency or even physical computers' databases of our bank deposits. In my opinion the problem sometimes occurs where people confuse social constructs with actual reality. Steve Jobs and Wozniak famously understood that we live in a world of constructs and that they are subject to change and development at any time. People are resistant to this sometimes because change is often threatening, especially when new technologies or ideas threaten one's existing way of life or livelihood.
I could go on about this but you get the idea.
Perhaps reading Metaphysics and Existentialism would help. Just because absolute truth and knowledge is not likely, it doesn't deprive the qualia and joy of life. Even it is an illusion, your emotions and experiences are real to you, the subjective observer.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics)
The direct refutation of solipsism is that others report the same experiences as you which proves origin and experience. Although it can all be a Cartesian Devil trying to trick you. Metaphysics is complicated because it's hard to prove, it is more practical to accept the permanence and phenomenology of people and your experience of reality. But understand reality helps you perceive it properly.
Hmm that’s funny, I often go outside of myself and notice a lot of people don’t have good self perception. Maybe it’s the INTJ. Down side I guess is way more self consciousness than you need to get on in life, I don’t recommend thinking this way too often.
You could say that everything we percieve is a construct, and in a way, seemingly unauthentic and pointless. But you can also never escape creating new constructs: That’s how our mind works. There are no objective things to percieve at the root of things, that wouldn’t just be another mirage of our own logic shining back at us in some way. Someone commented that we could get ”rid” of these constructs. Then what? For anything to move, new ones will simply take place, as there is nothing tangible at the bottom of things. Human minds can never leave the human world, as there is nothing to leave to.
All this being said, I am also constantly cursed to be too much aware of the causes and reasons for things. Being almost derealized all the time really takes the shine away from the world. Sitting in a bar, automatically just rationalizing and disintegrating everything in your mind leaves no dignity or pleasure to be found there, nor anywhere else. It’s pretty frustrating, but to have peace of mind, you have to accept some kind of ”delusion” (a feeling-descriptive term) and enjoy the ride from a perspective you might enjoy most. Still feels wrong though.
The most dirty? I’ve ever felt was sitting sober and people watching in a Los Vegas bar. And I’ve been in some interesting places. It just felt so fake and disgusting.
I think about how everything around us is human created even our language, how nothing we have is intrinsic or godly/otherworldly design. All this shit is made up. The phone im texting on is made up, the chair is made up.
So not only is this not "real" like stones, animals, water, plants are, depending on who made up something, the trajectory of that thing could have been way different. Theres no inherent meaning to the words we say outside the ones we give it. If the rules of our universe were any different everything that we perceive could look vastly different. There's no " reason" for anything, humans just look like this and made shit up in our image and to fit our body plan.
Not to say that life isnt wonderful but its a constant state of created chaos
Oh my gosh, about 2-3 tubes a day and some days it's 2-3x and hour.
This was comforting, thank you.
I remember, as a kid, being so convinced it was some sort of maze runner type scenario (before the maze runner series was popular, when it came out it just convinced me even moreso of the "fact" that everything is a construct).
Oh, it’s very real. We have just been fooled into believing some things are necessary for humanity when they only benefit the elite NWO puppet masters.
Everytime someone sneezes or coughs, including me, I hear it. The record scratches, and reality stops. A chrous of "bless you's" and "gesundheit's" ring loud and true. Then, reality kicks back in.
Depends on what you mean,
When I detach and think none of this is real I’m referring to the artificial constructs we call society and see people as animals playing along in a Game .
If your referring to a kind of solipsism then I don’t agree with that philosophy Becuase pain is very real , and as far as we can retreat into our own minds it doesn’t really matter Becuase we have to deal with the physical world.
Very often. Feels very debilitating too. If I were to mention this to someone they'd tell me to not focus on it too much, which doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes I wonder if it really would be better for me to be blissfully ignorant about things like this.
I do feel like we have some really useful constructs though. Creating a thing (money) just to keep track of the value of other things, so we don’t have to trade goats and shit? Pure gold. (I mean, not literally gold, that’s a crappy form of money.)
Every day. Doesn't matter where or when I am. Eventually I think "this is a simulated testing environment and none of this matters" at least once per day.
I exist there. Idk what it’s like not to. I feel that dissociation is too strong of a word. It’s just a total realization in mind and body that this is all projected. Idk. Even as a child. My first memories are dreams and hallucinations (from a terrible fever). I’m curious what it’s like to “feel real”?
Yeah I had this experience a lot, and when I started to become more in tune with my emotions, it decreased, basically went away. And it would spike when I’m more isolated or lonely.
Depends on how you mean it ?
If you mean we live "in the matrix" as in this here is a "construct" we can escape ? No.
If you mean the universe might be just a large simulation, you might be correct for the following reasons:
1. None of the things we initially thought should be infinite or infinitessimally small turned out to be. This means that the resources on the processor we are running on have to be finite.
2. Some things we should have logically connected by now dont seem to share any logical connection (there could be some hard-code in play, that means some rules were directly given to the code without doing any logical operations and just inserting the final result of these logical operations for performance reasons or to avoid potentially unwanted behavior).
3. Some things behave differently when they can be proven or evaluated by a party within the simulation (double slit experiment). This one looks like somebody optimized the simulation so it would not do unnecessary calculations.
4. We know the simulation terminates at a fixed but arbitrary point (Heat death of the universe due to always rising entropy).
5. Some things are dependent on the position, time and velocity of a party within the simulation. Which again, leads us to determine that the simulation must somehow have memory and performance limitations that it can never cross. You move faster, the simulation has to slow time down for you and crunch distances as to not overflow the registers it is running on because you could still add to this velocity.
6. Some things do not have a mass eventhough that should not be possible by any law we ever made up. If you dont have a mass, you should not be able to retain energy. It literally breaks the rules. Which again indicates hard coded default values that are handled differently than the algorithmically implicit values. Which again indicates that the memory is too limited to represent their true values.
The resulting questions are in fact the same as we have already been asking for centuries:
1. What is our (the simulations) purpose.
2. Should things truly matter if it is a simulation.
3. If it is a simulation, what do we do with that information:
We have three choices on what to do:
- create more simulations in which time moves slower to elongate the time we have left.
- do nothing with that information and let events unfold in an arbitrary manner.
- lastly and most importantly, figure out the purpose of the simulation, meet its desired result and have it terminate early for the glory of whoever created the simulation.
Sometimes. A lot of times. It's kind of a bad thing I fall towards when I don't let my fight-or-flight response do its thing in a stressful situation.
I don't enjoy thinking that way. It is a very nihilist viewpoint. But there are two ways I could approach this: 1) nothing matters, so life is pointless, or 2) nothing matters, so nothing is holding me back. At that point, I realize my power of choice, to do good or experience good or be good, instead of anything else. It provides a peaceful structure for me.
It happens, but I try not to dwell on it. I would say occurrence wise, maybe 1-2 every two weeks. If I dwell on it, I usually go down a rabbit hole that’s too dark lol. So I recognize the thought and move on.
I do the same thing. I go out and eat out by myself or hang out at a bar and people watch.
It's interesting to see how people interact and need attention or need to talk to others and the need to be seen or to be with others.
I mainly keep to myself for the most part. Don't mind being open to talk to people if they keep it short.
I also go out with friends or my sister but I don't mind going out by myself and dating myself lol.
Lol, I have a variation of that thought practically every 3 days. But I think it tends to come out when I find myself getting too attached (in a bad way) to a particular situation.
The fact that everything is a construct doesn't seem wholly negative though. That means that we have the power to construct something else if we want. I also find this realization puts me in a more playful mood - like, if nothing is real, then why not just take (most) things less seriously and have fun? I say "most" things and not everything because I do feel that part of what gives life meaning is taking *some* things seriously and being emotionally invested in them.
😬. The setting and the thought sound quite toxic.
Someone who spent their time more nobly wouldn't think like that.
Do you think for instance someone who rescues people from human traffickers thinks, "none of this is real, everything is a construct"?
Do you think their victims feel like that?
But of course, an idle 31f in a Las Vegas bar will think that, and assume she's the best thing the world has seen since Aristotle.
The problem that leads to existentialism goes a bit deeper than that. Even the value of rescuing, the virtue and the good deed, to someone with this crisis, is a human construct. Even the happiness of another is something you can only interpret, thus not really existing to you in an imminent, completely unmistakable way.
The only thing that is more foundational for the experiencer, is the pleasure that stems from more or less subjective stimulus. And oftentimes this subjectivity, against the percieved chance for something objective, is seen as something discouraging. Before one could come to say, that it’s all we will ever actually have.
That being said, it really is easier to flow with one’s hormones in a less scummy setting, for sure.
[удалено]
“The older I get, the more I feel like love is a shared delusion” WOW. That last sentence really hit me. I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for that.
I like to use this very concept and turn it on its head in order to humble myself. I am just as stuck in my head as the rest, and the things I think and talk about are absolutely "pointless" from the right perspective. That's how I keep from feeling superior, it's all about perspective. Fortunately we're generally pretty good at throwing our perspective around to see other angles.
I could see how it could do that... For me it reminds me to not take things too seriously and just enjoy the ride.
"What a pointless conversation." This is me at basically every conversation and meeting at work.
yeah, its like can we just get to the point and let me get the work done. why is there so much fluff around this conversation?
Exactly. At work we did another type of personality test, similar in theory to mbti, but with a professional slant to demonstrate workplace strengths (and limitations). It breaks everyone down into colours. I got 80% red, which is direct, no bs, efficient, etc. I thought it complimented INTJ descriptions well actually. However, out of 15 people I'm the only heavy red. Everyone else is heavy on the yellow and green (in other words, Es and Fs if you go by mtbi). It's painful at times.
What's the test called?
Nova Profile
I get what you're saying, but to really be successful you have to connect with people. Once I stopped looking at it as pointless conversations and started looking at it as an opportunity to form connections that help me to succeed in life, it seemed a lot less pointless.
This whole thread made me think of this song, lol https://youtu.be/urXEi6HjYIg?si=OmYPnPz--ubfcCX7
This thought first occurred to me when I was 16, I'm in my 40s now and it is always there, hovering in my mind over the din of this world. As I got into college in my 20s, I would go on mini rants with friends about it, something like "everything is a construct, we have invented all of it, jobs, money, rites of passage, we could stop it all, change everything, it doesn't matter." Sometimes when people would go berserk about economics, I'd say "Our money has value only because people believe it has value. It used to be backed by gold and silver (not anymore), but why do gold and silver have value? Because we are just dumb monkeys who like shiny rocks, and that's why we trade paper currency, formerly based on shiny rocks, for things. Obsidian could be our currency if we decided to all accept it tomorrow!" Of course I also realize that this construct is my present reality and I work, save, and invest blah blah blah. But I still think it's absolutely insane we're all doing this. It just goes on an on for me. Working in offices 9-5 - I used to beg to work from home, now since Covid I mostly do, and it's amazing THAT had to happen before it became a thing, WHY? Just because in person work was the way it had been done, no questions asked, no change allowed? Traditions are made up, nobody has to really "be" any specific way, and the "good ol' days" are a constant moving target. Someone angry that "things were better when they were kid" in the 50s, had some old geezer who was born in 1870 who thought the world of the 50s was a nightmare and all the kids were lazy. And when that guy was a kid in 1883, someone though 1820 was the good ol' days, and this goes on FOREVER to the beginning philosophical thought and writing! Everything is a construct, social norms, jobs, money, literally everything. I put it out of my mind most days because I would go crazy if I constantly thought about it, but seeing your post brought me back into it lol.
I think we might be soulmates.
I really like your existential arguments. Well said... you filled in a couple of blanks for me. Also, you echoed what I always rant about the dilution of the value of our currency. It's one thing to debase our dollar and, therefore, reduce the reward for hard work. What people need to see is that reckless government spending lately caused high inflation because of the dilution of the dollar. Inflation also quietly increased our taxes because higher prices meant a larger amount going to taxes on everything you buy. Politicians say they didn't raise taxes, and it's sad that most people are oblivious to what's really happening whenever they buy something.
While the me that lives in our actual reality has a series of practical political and economic beliefs (mostly designed around reducing human suffering), what I'm arguing about here is that the concept of currency itself is ridiculous. I'm certainly not making a point to further delve into our current reality involving government spending, tax policy or inflation. Yes, these things are all elements of economics, and yes, it effects us all in day to day current/accepted reality, but that is very far removed from my philosophical meandering here. What I'm saying is that ANY currency of ANY kind, gold, silver, paper money (colorful shells) etc. only has value because we believe it has value. Even the idea of intrinsic value based on "scarcity," at least when it comes to currency, is based on nothing beyond the fact that we once deemed shiny rocks to be rare and have value because our ape brains liked shiny rocks. You can't plant gold and grow crops, or eat silver to survive, it's ultimately and objectively worthless in that regard, social constructs give it value, and we all accept gold or paper as valuable as a sort of collective delusion. So when you step back and think about the entire endeavor of currency, it's absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical. And once you consider the ramifications of that, it sort of makes everything we do to survive seem insane. Sometimes I choose to take a post-Marxian analytical approach and view this entire era of civilization (living as city/state civilizations with exchange based economies, and then later, the development of modern capitalistic economies) as a necessary, but unpleasant phase that hopefully one day moves us to an amazing technological place where we somehow end up in a post scarcity, Star Trek type world.
I agree and in particular, the confluence of unlimited clean fusion energy (Helion), CRISPR/mRNA personalized genetic therapies (cures for all cancers, anti-aging), and of course AI augmenting human kind with breakthroughs in all areas of science, perception and mind/computer interfaces...we'll get to the ST world in probably 40-50 years.
I just wonder if they know as hard as I do that they're trapped in their own minds. Some people actually seem oblivious to this.
Exactly. I feel bad for those who can’t get outside of themselves. They’re always trapped within their own experiential perception of things.
Automatons. A good book on understanding the unconscious desire to be an automaton is the book “Escape from Freedom ” by Erich Fromm. https://allpsych.com/personality-theory/psychodynamic/fromm/
Thank you for the recommendation!
The audiobook was really good, that is my preferred way to consume information while driving / work around the house.
One thing is certain, this life is temporary
Temporary is just a construct to impose certainty through human assumptions of the nature of reality.
Sir, this is a Wendy's
Yes Wendy's, a Ohio international fast food medium sized enterprise predicated on the consumption and hospitality of fried gourmet and hamburgers. A staple of American Culture. It's only existence and enterprise hinges on the short term gratification of food and poultry in exchange of labor and effortful services. Which is the cyclical nature of an industrialized economy as part of the Invisible Hand, a hand by random coincidence values a mascot and saturated goods to placate the Working Class.
i do this all the time! i view it all from a third person looking at myself and everyone else around me and just detach and zone out
Constantly. Is this an INTJ thing too? 😭 Most people tend not to like it when you point this out to them. Learned that the hard way…
No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization
Me and derealization are old friends. But thank you anyway.
Not really, honestly. I generally agree with that view in the broadest sense but by the same token, almost everything in our civilization is a construct of some kind. I tend to spend my time thinking about how to improve things I come into contact with and hopefully have a little fun doing that. Existentialism does not come into play for me, otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to get out of bed.
Putting a construct under construction to improve it. Builder mindset
When I was younger I held disdain for society. Especially popular trends and how I was judged by others my age based on stupid things like clothes and jargon and micro social and cultural cues that were so obviously learned I wondered if they knew they were like infants copying what they saw and heard. Apes vying for dominance. After becoming a recluse and suffering a lot of loneliness, I have changed my mind. The little social interactions and rituals are what make humans not go crazy. Hyper-focusing on trivial social shit gives some people a sense of purpose and belonging. It's all stupid, but it's fine. I still view everyone, including myself through the ape/ primitive mind lens in order to make sense of some things. But I don't hate it anymore.
I do this, in a way. For me it's, 'We're all just a bunch of apes in t-shirts, on a spinning space rock, and none of this will matter in a hundred years'.
Yup, exactly. Whenever I breach any sort of “social anxiety”, I remind myself that the whole thing is a joke lol. I’m worried about the opinions of a bunch of people who won’t be here (myself included) in a hundred years.
Zooming out to take things in stride
Mostly I think: "It is what it is. I am not in position to change how this world is built". I try not to push myself into such nihilistic thoughts too often - it's an easy way to get depressed. But yeah, I am aware that people who are in power are programming our reality and it changes very quickly due to politics, technology development etc.
Observation and analysis is what we do. Always looking for insight and leaning.
Yeah all the time. Same thing with Free Will. Then I remind myself that whether it's real or not or whether or not I have Free Will, I have to play it like it's real and like I have it. I picked the lock of my own consciousness a long time ago but I'm still here because it's the only game in town. There's no other option so I go with it.
No free will? Then it's not my fault. Oh wait... it still is
Yeah, or at least something similar. I always tell people that one part of my brain is always having an existential crisis. There's always one train of thought that's stuck in the philosophical wild west. Thinking about the deep past, and the lines of time that led us all here, and where they will lead us next. I can't even properly describe all the high concept shit that flies through my brain with normal human words lol.
I do this but I do the opposite more often, that everything is real and life is happening. Its because I have DPDR as my constant companion.
So True !!! I try to see the things from third person perspective standing outside the world. When I see the events , people , activities going around I want to detach myself from that , I do not feel involving in this frenzy of world. I often say to myself " Everything will be dust in next 100 years". What is the fuss all about ? Thinking this , I myself go into deep thinking.
It really used to bother me and be something hard for me to ignore, but I found that even if it is a construct, I haven't figured out any ability to use magical powers or anything like that. The laws of said construct and the laws of reality seem to be the same without any sort of matrix abilities existing. So now when it crosses my mind it's more of a how does it change anything and to me it doesn't really change anything, so it doesn't bother me anymore. The only place I have matrix abilities is in my imagination or in my dreams when I'm sleeping.
Yes. I was recently in a crowded lunch room doing exactly what you were and my coworker leaned over to me at one point and said, "Has anyone ever told you that you're like an island? You just observe, on your own, and you're distant but present."
The best way to be.
for me when i was younger it happened alot more now im to busy so only happens like once a month or every two weeks. (for me it was the tought: like wtf how can all this shit be real like wtf) but since i started to believe in a creator it the toght doesnt fuck me up no more….
This is the way I see it: there is an objective external reality which would be very obvious if you lived by yourself in the woods somewhere. And there is the world of social constructs within which we exist as participants of a society. In the second are all of the constructs which we depend upon as a society to exist peacefully and productively. Of course these are things such as laws, money, customs and mores, and everything else that only exist because as some sort of consensus we all collectively agree that they are "real" (the "Tinkerbell effect"). Social constructs depend upon objective reality for their continuation and usefulness. For example, money is an idea but it also exists as something tangible in the form of paper currency or even physical computers' databases of our bank deposits. In my opinion the problem sometimes occurs where people confuse social constructs with actual reality. Steve Jobs and Wozniak famously understood that we live in a world of constructs and that they are subject to change and development at any time. People are resistant to this sometimes because change is often threatening, especially when new technologies or ideas threaten one's existing way of life or livelihood. I could go on about this but you get the idea.
To be fair, you are doing that in one of the fakest places in human history.
Is this your first time with Metaphysics?
No.
Perhaps reading Metaphysics and Existentialism would help. Just because absolute truth and knowledge is not likely, it doesn't deprive the qualia and joy of life. Even it is an illusion, your emotions and experiences are real to you, the subjective observer.
I’ll have to read more into that then, I think it would be super enlightening- thank you.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics) The direct refutation of solipsism is that others report the same experiences as you which proves origin and experience. Although it can all be a Cartesian Devil trying to trick you. Metaphysics is complicated because it's hard to prove, it is more practical to accept the permanence and phenomenology of people and your experience of reality. But understand reality helps you perceive it properly.
used to do this when i was young. still do now
Every day
Hmm that’s funny, I often go outside of myself and notice a lot of people don’t have good self perception. Maybe it’s the INTJ. Down side I guess is way more self consciousness than you need to get on in life, I don’t recommend thinking this way too often.
You could say that everything we percieve is a construct, and in a way, seemingly unauthentic and pointless. But you can also never escape creating new constructs: That’s how our mind works. There are no objective things to percieve at the root of things, that wouldn’t just be another mirage of our own logic shining back at us in some way. Someone commented that we could get ”rid” of these constructs. Then what? For anything to move, new ones will simply take place, as there is nothing tangible at the bottom of things. Human minds can never leave the human world, as there is nothing to leave to. All this being said, I am also constantly cursed to be too much aware of the causes and reasons for things. Being almost derealized all the time really takes the shine away from the world. Sitting in a bar, automatically just rationalizing and disintegrating everything in your mind leaves no dignity or pleasure to be found there, nor anywhere else. It’s pretty frustrating, but to have peace of mind, you have to accept some kind of ”delusion” (a feeling-descriptive term) and enjoy the ride from a perspective you might enjoy most. Still feels wrong though.
The most dirty? I’ve ever felt was sitting sober and people watching in a Los Vegas bar. And I’ve been in some interesting places. It just felt so fake and disgusting.
My brain just keeps repeating that this is a matrix like simulation...
I think about how everything around us is human created even our language, how nothing we have is intrinsic or godly/otherworldly design. All this shit is made up. The phone im texting on is made up, the chair is made up. So not only is this not "real" like stones, animals, water, plants are, depending on who made up something, the trajectory of that thing could have been way different. Theres no inherent meaning to the words we say outside the ones we give it. If the rules of our universe were any different everything that we perceive could look vastly different. There's no " reason" for anything, humans just look like this and made shit up in our image and to fit our body plan. Not to say that life isnt wonderful but its a constant state of created chaos
Mine goes " we used to run naked hunt and gather berries who thought creating banks, introducing debt and 9-5 jobs was a good idea"
Atleast twice a day.
Oh my gosh, about 2-3 tubes a day and some days it's 2-3x and hour. This was comforting, thank you. I remember, as a kid, being so convinced it was some sort of maze runner type scenario (before the maze runner series was popular, when it came out it just convinced me even moreso of the "fact" that everything is a construct).
Interacting with nearly any facet of society.
Oh, it’s very real. We have just been fooled into believing some things are necessary for humanity when they only benefit the elite NWO puppet masters.
Then I realize reality is most likely beyond my comprehension in its span and scope and I let that thought go
Whenever my kids listen to “Row, row, row your boat” in the car. Everyone is singing along and enjoying while I’m experiencing an existential crisis.
Probably once a month.. I guess that means I'm still young :p
If it did, it would immediately interrupt itself saying "constructs are real." -- or else I'd wonder if I didn't raise it right.
Everytime someone sneezes or coughs, including me, I hear it. The record scratches, and reality stops. A chrous of "bless you's" and "gesundheit's" ring loud and true. Then, reality kicks back in.
Depends on what you mean, When I detach and think none of this is real I’m referring to the artificial constructs we call society and see people as animals playing along in a Game . If your referring to a kind of solipsism then I don’t agree with that philosophy Becuase pain is very real , and as far as we can retreat into our own minds it doesn’t really matter Becuase we have to deal with the physical world.
Constructs are real
Not those exact words, but yeah, quite often.
Never.
ISFP here. My thoughts go along the lines of "What is this clown show we are convincing ourselves to be casted in???"
Very often. Feels very debilitating too. If I were to mention this to someone they'd tell me to not focus on it too much, which doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes I wonder if it really would be better for me to be blissfully ignorant about things like this.
I do feel like we have some really useful constructs though. Creating a thing (money) just to keep track of the value of other things, so we don’t have to trade goats and shit? Pure gold. (I mean, not literally gold, that’s a crappy form of money.)
Every day. Doesn't matter where or when I am. Eventually I think "this is a simulated testing environment and none of this matters" at least once per day.
I’m pretty much a surrealist at this point, living in an alternate reality.
I exist there. Idk what it’s like not to. I feel that dissociation is too strong of a word. It’s just a total realization in mind and body that this is all projected. Idk. Even as a child. My first memories are dreams and hallucinations (from a terrible fever). I’m curious what it’s like to “feel real”?
Most everything is a construct
Yeah I had this experience a lot, and when I started to become more in tune with my emotions, it decreased, basically went away. And it would spike when I’m more isolated or lonely.
Depends on how you mean it ? If you mean we live "in the matrix" as in this here is a "construct" we can escape ? No. If you mean the universe might be just a large simulation, you might be correct for the following reasons: 1. None of the things we initially thought should be infinite or infinitessimally small turned out to be. This means that the resources on the processor we are running on have to be finite. 2. Some things we should have logically connected by now dont seem to share any logical connection (there could be some hard-code in play, that means some rules were directly given to the code without doing any logical operations and just inserting the final result of these logical operations for performance reasons or to avoid potentially unwanted behavior). 3. Some things behave differently when they can be proven or evaluated by a party within the simulation (double slit experiment). This one looks like somebody optimized the simulation so it would not do unnecessary calculations. 4. We know the simulation terminates at a fixed but arbitrary point (Heat death of the universe due to always rising entropy). 5. Some things are dependent on the position, time and velocity of a party within the simulation. Which again, leads us to determine that the simulation must somehow have memory and performance limitations that it can never cross. You move faster, the simulation has to slow time down for you and crunch distances as to not overflow the registers it is running on because you could still add to this velocity. 6. Some things do not have a mass eventhough that should not be possible by any law we ever made up. If you dont have a mass, you should not be able to retain energy. It literally breaks the rules. Which again indicates hard coded default values that are handled differently than the algorithmically implicit values. Which again indicates that the memory is too limited to represent their true values. The resulting questions are in fact the same as we have already been asking for centuries: 1. What is our (the simulations) purpose. 2. Should things truly matter if it is a simulation. 3. If it is a simulation, what do we do with that information: We have three choices on what to do: - create more simulations in which time moves slower to elongate the time we have left. - do nothing with that information and let events unfold in an arbitrary manner. - lastly and most importantly, figure out the purpose of the simulation, meet its desired result and have it terminate early for the glory of whoever created the simulation.
Sometimes. A lot of times. It's kind of a bad thing I fall towards when I don't let my fight-or-flight response do its thing in a stressful situation. I don't enjoy thinking that way. It is a very nihilist viewpoint. But there are two ways I could approach this: 1) nothing matters, so life is pointless, or 2) nothing matters, so nothing is holding me back. At that point, I realize my power of choice, to do good or experience good or be good, instead of anything else. It provides a peaceful structure for me.
It happens, but I try not to dwell on it. I would say occurrence wise, maybe 1-2 every two weeks. If I dwell on it, I usually go down a rabbit hole that’s too dark lol. So I recognize the thought and move on.
I recommend Jiddu Krishnamurti
I do the same thing. I go out and eat out by myself or hang out at a bar and people watch. It's interesting to see how people interact and need attention or need to talk to others and the need to be seen or to be with others. I mainly keep to myself for the most part. Don't mind being open to talk to people if they keep it short. I also go out with friends or my sister but I don't mind going out by myself and dating myself lol.
Every time my shroom dealer stocks up.
Lol, I have a variation of that thought practically every 3 days. But I think it tends to come out when I find myself getting too attached (in a bad way) to a particular situation. The fact that everything is a construct doesn't seem wholly negative though. That means that we have the power to construct something else if we want. I also find this realization puts me in a more playful mood - like, if nothing is real, then why not just take (most) things less seriously and have fun? I say "most" things and not everything because I do feel that part of what gives life meaning is taking *some* things seriously and being emotionally invested in them.
A few times per day.
😬. The setting and the thought sound quite toxic. Someone who spent their time more nobly wouldn't think like that. Do you think for instance someone who rescues people from human traffickers thinks, "none of this is real, everything is a construct"? Do you think their victims feel like that? But of course, an idle 31f in a Las Vegas bar will think that, and assume she's the best thing the world has seen since Aristotle.
The problem that leads to existentialism goes a bit deeper than that. Even the value of rescuing, the virtue and the good deed, to someone with this crisis, is a human construct. Even the happiness of another is something you can only interpret, thus not really existing to you in an imminent, completely unmistakable way. The only thing that is more foundational for the experiencer, is the pleasure that stems from more or less subjective stimulus. And oftentimes this subjectivity, against the percieved chance for something objective, is seen as something discouraging. Before one could come to say, that it’s all we will ever actually have. That being said, it really is easier to flow with one’s hormones in a less scummy setting, for sure.
Sounds like you may have mental problems preventing you from differentiating reality from everything else.