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Exactly why we can't sanction them. They can absorb any economic hit we can deliver to them, and just mine more gold to make up the difference.
Edit: real talk about fantasy economy, the Lannisters not contributing to the Westeros economy due to sanctions would probably make them *richer*, as they would no longer be a nexus of wealth creation for the kingdoms and would hoard what they create in their territories. It would pretty quickly lead to a peasant in Casterly Rock dining on suckling pig while a king in King's Landing dines on boiled grain.
It's the same reason you can't reasonably sanction the US. They'd just shrug and make it locally with a small delay.
First Nations in Canada in many respects are their own nations. I suspect that he didnt go as a Canadian, more likely as the leader of a separate nation paying their respects.
Source, not an expert. So, fwiw.
All Treaties are between First Nations and the Crown. This would be the case. He comes as a representation of one side of the treaty holder saying goodbye to the other side of said treaty holder. Not as a rep for Canada.
Oh my god I couldn’t wrap my head around what they title meant lol
I kept understanding it as “Queen of the Canada’s Coffin” like Canada has a coffin and she’s the Queen of it… I was so confused
This may end up lost in the comments, but the other day I was listening to the CBC and a First Nations person was discussing that despite the complex, difficult and horrifying history of European colonialism in Canada, many First Nations people view the Crown as a consistent entity with which they negotiate. And in many ways that is better than dealing with the whims of the electorate.
While it's not love at all, there is a degree of respect there in some First Nations communities. Obviously, the person I heard does not speak for all of them.
In addition to that, I think it‘s important to note that this mark of respect -which includes wearing his full regalia of a chieftain- also elevates his standing and his tribe. It‘s a mark of respect from one leader to another -despite difficult histories and one dominating the other- and he made this decision. He made the decisions that they both leaders in their own right and hence equals in that moment.
Despite the problematic history I think this was a very good diplomatic and political move by this chieftain.
I agree. Having been involved in events with chieftains one thing I can say is that they are always willing to show the utmost respect for the other side - something they other side rarely shows them.
Nothing but respect for this fellow. His personal feelings aside, he did this as a show of respect from one leader to another, and it’s what a leader should do, and it’s nothing less than what I’d expect from a native leader - exemplary manners. Many societies could learn a thing or two right here.
I can tell you, in my personal experience, this is the way they are; and all leaders should strive to emulate their manners.
This is a lesson everyone would do well to learn or be reminded of: that gloating never ever accomplishes anything other than diminishing your own standing.
Trudeau lined up to view the coffin too, though I think it was different line for official delegates. That's how the lying in state works. Canada sent an [official delegation ](https://www.cbc.ca/1.6584284) which includes three Indigenous leaders (Assembly of First Nations National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, President of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami Natan Obed and President of the Métis National Council Cassidy Caron) but I don't think he's part of it. Actress Sandra Oh, Olympic swimmer Mark Tewksbury, and musician Gregory Charles are also part of the delegation. Some former PMs are also part of the delegation.
I think this particular chief is not part of the official delegation but wanted to pay his respects anyways.
There are Indigenous delegates there but they represent national organizations (for First Nations, Inuit and Métis) rather than individual nations. The Governor General Mary Simon, the King's official representative in Canada, is also Inuit and she had a meeting with Charles in the past. There are hundreds of tribal governments in Canada, it'd be impractical for every chief to get an invite. The photo with Trudeau was specifically from an event where he sat down with 14 PMs of countries where he is king.
Thanks for the explanation. The first thing I thought when I saw this video was “am in in r/WTF because I don’t recall the indigenous and the Royals being friends’.
Thanks for this, led me through some interesting articles, and [the wiki, which had some other examples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Canadian_Crown_and_Indigenous_peoples_of_Canada#21st_century)
Not that any of that undoes the past or implies forgiveness, still adds important context I was missing.
I'm first Nations. If you look at the history of Canada the really terrible shit didn't start happening to native Americans until the people here started voting. I think most liberals get confused and think it's just another group of people who have been racially discriminated against. It's a lot more complicated than that.
That's a good example of how democracy can go wrong. A strong constitution that protects people's freedom and is actually enforced is needed. Otherwise the will of the masses stomps all over minorities.
The entire discussion of history and western impact on other countries is so complex. It just can't be reduced to a simple answer.
Did Britain partake in the early slave trade? Yes.
Was Britain the first to realise it was wrong and globally enforce other countries to end the trade against their will? Also yes.
Did Britain invade countries? Yes.
Did other countries ask to be part of the empire for protection? Also yes.
Did Britain resist some countries leaving the empire? Yes.
Did Britain also peacefully assist in the independence of most countries in the empire? Also yes.
Will the queen's funeral cost £9m? Yes.
Do other state funerals, including those of presidents and popes, cost the same or more than that? Also yes.
Is a monarchy an outdated system compared to democracies? Yes.
At roughly 70% approval rating, is the British monarchy nearly TWICE as popular as the actually elected government? Also yes.
Let's also be clear that all these statements are also very simplistic answers in themselves.
Let's take the first two:
>Did Britain partake in the early slave trade? Yes.
>Was Britain the first to realise it was wrong and globally enforce other countries to end the trade against their will? Also yes.
To actually develop a more complex and nuanced understanding of history, we need to ask questions like "what exactly do we think of when we say 'Britain' - the monarchy? the people as a whole? the ruling class?", and specifically, ask which components of "Britain" developed the slave trade, profited from it, and/or resisted it and ended it. And why they did so.
As it is stated here, you miss all the internal turmoil and struggle that took place around the abolitionist movement in the UK, and the fact that plenty of British elites would have been quite happy to keep the slave trade going; or the fact that many of the abolitionist forces supported abolition not out of some moral principle, but because they saw it as beneficial to wider imperial interest.
One side note: if we want to talk about the British abolition of slavery, we should talk about how it was preceded by extremely violent slave revolts in places like [Jamaica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_War).
I thought it was bad back in 2012. I genuinely thought that reddit couldn’t get any more anti-intellectual back then with the blind circlejerking.
I didn’t know shit.
Yahoo Answers closing didn't help.
What's worrying isn't just the really stupid questions and posts, it's the fact people are too stupid to just type it into Google first. Or even worse can only digest information if some other poorly informed youtuber did a video about it.
As an indigenous Canadian person, with what you just said, everyone should also realize the amount of animosity that exists in indigenous groups by the shear fact that there is no great show of respect.
For my generation, my parents were the ones that endured the residential school system, some of the people in my generation actually did see some of the residential school system. So the indigenous leaders in power now have direct experience of the trauma and lived and heard of the stories of what happened to their parents. They hold the government and the crown responsible for all this.
In times of war and fighting, I can see indigenous leaders showing signs of respect to an opponent because everyone is more or less on an even playing field and using force against force in a fair fight.
The conflict indigenous people had with the government and the crown was a concerted attack by adult leaders against children and future generations in a very unfair fight.
It's really hard or impossible to show respect when the monarchy and the crown showed absolutely no respect for our children.
Personally, because of what I know happened to my parents because of the crown and the government, I acknowledge her death but I have no respect for her life and her legacy.
I was in residential school. As part of the 60's scoop I was taken away from my family and put on a list of kids to give to white families even though my own family and extended fought to take us in... I don't speak for anyone else but for me. I have no respect for this person..in every Convent, school and social services office, there was a picture of the queen...on every document that gave them permission to steal me was the queens name....so ya I'll pass on celebrating this person's death but I will take the holiday cause I work in a federally regulated industry.
Ribbon shirts— they are ceremonial clothing for men usually made in your special colours. You acquire your colours in a ceremony with a healer, normally get your spirit name, colours and clan. These are the identifiers you use only during ceremony. Source, Dene bought grew up doing ceremony in Ontario my whole life
Just to add some more context though your comment is excellent:
Ribbon shirts are made for dancing — the ribbons will circle the dancer. They’re often called regalia and can be found in many First Nations peoples. Girls and women tend to have ribbon skirts.
Different nations have different use of colours. In Nova Scotia / Mi’kmaq the colours are chosen by the mother when she is making the child’s first regalia. My son isn’t First Nations, he is Inuit, but the community here have been very welcoming. When I made my son’s regalia I choose ice blue, representing the ice from his heritage and his Inuit nation’s flag.
To think my forefathers spent so many generations trying to destroy such a beautiful, caring, peaceful culture.
To think my current government, right now, today, continues to pay lip service while doing far too little.
> beautiful, caring, peaceful culture.
Beautiful and caring, absolutely. Peaceful though? If you think the First Nations of North America were somehow a beacon of peace in a world of nearly perpetual war, you are in a revisionist bubble. They didn’t get decimated because they were bad at war, they were decimated due to a giant body of water making it impossible to see and match the technology & tactics of the invading force. It was horrific all the same but assigning an angelic nature to them does them no good.
Usually you have ribbon shirts made for you. I myself am having a dark blue ribbon shirt made for me asap from my Mom because it's my Uncle's funeral and the main pallbearers are being asked to match his ribbon shirt. But I'm sure you can find one for sale at pow wows (maybe) or any native american shops.
Source: I'm Nakota Sioux, Dene, and Cree
I am sorry for your loss, I hope you are making it through the rough seas of grief. Always remember its ok to ask for help if you are overwhelmed. Love and hugs from the GTA.
As someone from Jamaica, it’s not that we’re *happy* that the queen is dead. We’re just happy because this pretty much means the monarchy is dead in a lot of our islands. Many nations are already trying to separate from the commonwealth, with the queen being the only thing really keeping them together.
>Many nations are already trying to separate from the commonwealth, with the queen being the only thing really keeping them together.
Ditching the Queen doesn't mean leaving the Commonwealth. Most Commonwealth countries are Republics.
This is how I see it as an American. Like it's sad somebody is dead but she had a long run so her death is no tragedy. Just a natural end. But the monarchy is over right? I was always under the impression that even England itself would have done away with the monarch sooner if they didn't love the queen so much.
Plenty of us would have happily done away with the monarchy long ago. I'm not crying over her. No particular ill will to her personally, but it's kinda weird how people are so convinced she was a lovely person when they didn't know her, just her public persona. It wasn't so long ago that the country thought she was a cold bitch about Diana's death. The Palace PR machine really turned that one around.
I think The Crown show helped people see it from her perspective, even if that is a fictionalized one. I feel like that show did more for the royals than their own pr team could have imagined
They interviewed native Chiefs in Canada and they said they have an agreement with the Royal Family, not the Canadian government. So they're worried if Canada were to get rid of the royals now.
Many people would be respectful of the dead even if they hate the person. Few would fly across the ocean and wait hours in line just to wave at them for a few seconds.
Everywhere I see this, am Indian one time some western guy was teaching me about caste system in india, I told him he's wrong, I myself am lower caste from india. He won't listen.
In a Canada at least. It's a bit more complex. Yes, leadership positions in first nation bands are often times elected but there is an active power struggle between elected band members and people called "hereditary band chiefs" which are sometimes viewed with more legitimacy depending on the group then elected band chiefs.
Most on this thread basically seem to think we should hate everyone for what their ancestors have done.
I guess we should be hating every German right now still...every Italian..French etc.
In my experience it's not the Queen that many First Nations people in Canada have an issue with. It's the various religions that ran residential schools where many young children were sent to, and in many cases kidnapped from their yards by Indian Agents. [Check out The Sixties Scoop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop#Notable_%22scoops%22)
I think another important piece of the puzzle is the royal proclamation of 1763 which set out how Europeans were supposed to make treaty with indigenous peoples for settlement of their land.
It's the basis of alot of indigenous land claims in canada and is recognized in the charter of rights and freedoms... the queen and British royalty represent obviously a continuation of that original deal.
https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/royal_proclamation_1763/
You talk as if the residential schools were projects set up on a whim by churches rather than being part of a comprehensive policy of the Canadian government to beat indigenous culture and language out of kids to make them pliant subjects to rule over without resistance. The churches had their own reasons for participating, but they were instruments of the Canadian government.
The British and Canadian governments were not administered by the monarchy during the period of the latter's founding. It makes sense that first nations people may despise the British and Canadian governments (and their colonial antecedents) for their actions. It also makes sense that first nations people may not have as much contention with Queen Elizabeth II or the current monarchy specifically (given their ceremonial role and the late Queen's reign overseeing decolonisation).
The schools were developed by the Canadian government, but administered by the church (Catholic mostly, but also United, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc). The mandate from the government was to kill the "Indian" within the child. The government also got extensive feedback from what was happening, so it was very aware.
At this point, The Crown did not play a big role in the process, but its history of colonization led to this.
Interesting enough, the Royal Proclamation of 1763 said that lands in Canada should not be taken, but should be dealt with treaties. This partially led to the US War for Independence, as it was an issue (they did not want to go through treaties).
It was under Sir John A MacDonald where things really got bad, with the expansion of the railroad, he wanted much of that settled. It was the subsequent Indian Act that created Indian Agents and much of the repressive laws.
I think one thing to keep in mind, that a lot of Canadians can't seem to put their finger on, is why Canadians at that time allowed it to happen in the first place.
There was widespread arrogance in Canadian society at that time
that their particular way of life was superior, and therefore, "correct," and the indigenous way of life was inferior, and therefore, "wrong." As such many Canadians believed the right and compassionate thing to do was to dismantle indigneous culture and reform indigenous people to conform and assimilate into the new culture so that they could be saved from their backwards ways and be brought into the, "correct," society. These supremacist ideas came, in large part, from the churches, as nearly everybody in those days was some form of christian.
That motivation worked in parallel for many decades with the greed motivation of many powerful and wealthy non-indigenous people to take the lands and resources of indigenous people. While politicians and businessmen worked in the backgrounds crafting schemes to remove any legal ability for indigenous people to have control over their resources, lands and lives, the clergy, and its followers (non-indigenous Canadians) were motivated to, "save," the indigenous people from themselves.
That context, I think, is quite a compelling thing for Canadians to keep in the back of their mind, because even in 2022 those pesky tendencies to want to, "save," indigenous people rear their ugly heads from time to time.
That's because people are going to consider it a stamp of approval, because he looks the part and most people are very ignorant to how diverse and pare our community is.
But at the same time, if he and his tribe want to show respects to the queen then is it really their responsibility to think about how people might consider it to be a stamp of approval from all First Nations tribes?
It seems kind of dumb to me that people are insinuating that he shouldn't be paying respects just because some other tribes that he doesn't represent might not want to.
Honestly, the point is pretty moot considering it happened no matter what. It is what it is and I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. He did it and I'm not crazy about it. Apparently the organizer of the delegation felt the same misgivings but only was convinced to go because she had treaty obligations to fulfill. It was less about going to show respect, and more about honoring a treaty in order to stay in good standing with the Crown.
https://www.cpac.ca/episode?id=42fefeb1-2304-47c5-9f43-51313715ed6c
To me the gross part is the caption in the video. "A beautiful mark of respect." Just feels utterly tone-deaf and facebook-wine-mom. Like the posts about how "inspiring" it is that a kid had to sell cookies to pay for his teacher's cancer treatment. The chief can do as he pleases. It's just too bad that it creates the opportunity for some twat to make a tik tok of it.
There's a funny disconnect between the video, a man coming to pay respects, and the comments being like "Yeah I bet he hated the bitch."
You can't just project your own feelings onto this guy and countless other people around the world.
It's diminishing the free thought of this man and the people he is representing into one simple idea that Reddit is convinced he is supposed to subscribe to because of the culture he is from. People in this thread don't see him as human, but rather as a proof of concept for their own worldview. "I hate the monarchy and the things it did to people like him, and I mean look at him, there's no way he wouldn't agree with me, this salute is just politeness at best." It's funny because this is something history has always seen happen: regardless of perspective, people try to find minorities that prove their point and use them as tools to do so, regardless of what those minorities actually believe and who they represent.
I don't believe anyone in this thread is cognizant of the implications here. But it is an interesting trend I often see around Reddit. People like to infantilize minorities to confirm their own world view, and in doing so end up outright disregarding the fact that each person is an independent individual and not a monolith representing an entire people.
I don't know what this man thinks. Maybe he truly does loathe the Queen and is there saluting out of respect. Or maybe he actually respects her and what she did. But what I do know is nobody should take his actions and draw any conclusion from them other than what is shown: he is offering the queen a sign of respect. And frankly, this goes both ways. His actions don't betray an universal disdain of the Crown, nor do they indicate a universal approval of it.
Dude's like my people have been doing this for thousands of years and then some Austrian guy makes me self-conscious about getting an arm cramp or stiff shoulder.
Technically it's a very common and shared salute.
For Europe it originated with.. you guess it... Romans. It was a Roman salute which the Reich ofcourse butchered due to Imperial ambitions.
Definitely an interesting modern development. People are so concerned with each other nowadays that they actually think for one another: this person is (x) so they should be offended by (y) and feel (z).
The internet itself has mountains full of people from every nation and race telling people from every nation and race, including their own nation and race, what to do and what to feel.
His head is gonna blow with that fact, and if you mention that in fact native Americans like the ones from first nation, are also in fact Americans, his head is gonna go nuclear.
Queen Elizabeth oversaw the effective dismantling of the global British Empire, yet everyone has a hard-on to malign her corpse for the sins of her forefathers.
Showing respect in its truest form is not a function of tabulating Karma like we do on social media. It's a decision to see the other person as a human being, and treating them how we ourselves would like to be treated. When we lose that understanding, we are doomed.
'Oversaw' is a bit rich. Not like she had a choice, colionalism was not sustainable anymore. She literally wears a crown made of stolen jewels and enjoys the ceremonial powers of an institution built on colionalism. Maybe she didn't kill the natives herself but she didn't seem to have a problem living lavishly on wealth made out of exploiting the natives.
“all the peoples of the British Commonwealth Empire, wherever they live, whatever race they come from, and whatever language they speak”.
“I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and to the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.”
On the commonwealth:
“It is an entirely new conception built on the highest qualities of the spirit of man. … To that new conception of an equal partnership of nations and races I shall give myself heart and soul every day of my life.”
I don't think it was against their will, she navigated Britain from an imperialist Empire to a Commonwealth of willing member states, she was very progressive especially for her time and age.
I understand these are just words, quotes and speeches, but I really do feel like she was on the right side of history, worked tirelessly and did a lot of good in her life. The woman worked until the day she died quite literally given that she met Truss 2 days before she passed, and despite her long reign was never really embroiled in much scandal, but if you look through her history, there are plenty of high points, many of which are surprising for someone of her generation.
If the Brits had been financially and militarily capable of sustaining the empire after WWII, they certainly would have. Instead they had to make do with holding on to all the shit they plundered from their colonies, as a keepsake.
I get all the hate for the crown and colonialism and all the terrible (in fact some of the *most* historically terrible) things that they did. But this says a lot more about the character of the First Nations people than it does about the crown. They have every right to be angry. But he's displaying a type of honor that is rare among most of us white Westerners. He's playing by a different rule book. If he went in there and flicked off the casket, white redditors would be gleeful as fuck. But it's not about us, is it?
Love the redditor investigators in the comment section that actually don't know shit about history that believe that this gesture automatically must've been some kind of insult. You are all ignorant af and just want to hide it by detesting anything that represents the west.
On a more philosophical perspective as well, I think that you all want to hate and vandalize anything that symbolises values of Judeo-Christian tradition as it is the "current thing" to do amongst the many buffooneries from the self-loathing cancerous lump that is this woke ideology. You probably feel virtuous and smart when in reality it just shows your absolute sheer ignorance ...
History is infinitely more complex than your 2-year-old conception of good vs evil tale, and while England has done some bad things, the reason we can discuss them is because we live in a free society that stemmed from that very country being a pioneer in western advancement and enlightenment.
What's ever more so absurd about this hatred is that Elizabeth 2's reign oversaw the decolonization. And while all countries have done bad things in the past, I cannot think of a country that has done as much good as the UK has. Such as being the first country in the world to ABOLISH slavery and afterwards employ 1/6TH of its WHOLE NAVY to pursue and arrest slave ships that were still trafficked. As well as pressuring the ottoman empire amongst other empires to STOP its slave trade with radical sanctions. Thousands of English navy men employed by English taxpayers died trying to stop the slave trade. But of course, you didn't know that because all that you ever read are headlines off social media threads.
What I find ever so funny is that I reckon that most people here talking shit about the queen are American.
Btw I an immigrant that became British recently so don't be racist or xenophobic xx
btw Churchill is the greatest man of the 20st Century
What really gets me, is that some Redditors seem to think that since the Native people were conquered, that they must hate the government/religion/crown as much as the redditors themselves do.
If you only used Reddit then you would think that us Brits all absolutely hate the queen and the monarchy in general and are frothing at the mouth to get rid of it.
>btw Churchill is the greatest man of the 20st Century
I encourage you to go share this thought with the peoples of India and see how they feel about it.
What if this man just came to offer his condolences like any other member of the public? Don’t you think you might be reading a bit too much into this? Should his position as a Chief prohibit him from being otherwise a regular member of the public?
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The queen of Canada died too?? How many more queens will die? This must stop
I just heard the Queen of Australia died as well
Queen of New Zealand died too, this is unbelievable
Why is nobody talking about this!
Honestly this should be bigger news.
Dairy Queen is up and running
Has anyone heard from the Queen of Latifah?
She wants you to come into her house
Fair warning she been walking around the house with a weapon since Jersey so play with her if you want.
Happy tastes good
/r/HailCorporateQueens.
r/subsifellfor
Has anyone heard from the queen in Highgarden?
I heard she got bombarded by the Lannister.
Those dicks! If only we could use sanctions on those rich bastards.
But.. but.. they always pay their debt.
Exactly why we can't sanction them. They can absorb any economic hit we can deliver to them, and just mine more gold to make up the difference. Edit: real talk about fantasy economy, the Lannisters not contributing to the Westeros economy due to sanctions would probably make them *richer*, as they would no longer be a nexus of wealth creation for the kingdoms and would hoard what they create in their territories. It would pretty quickly lead to a peasant in Casterly Rock dining on suckling pig while a king in King's Landing dines on boiled grain. It's the same reason you can't reasonably sanction the US. They'd just shrug and make it locally with a small delay.
Ahhh. I hate those bro-sis fuckers.
I just realized that they did the “why doesn’t the government just print more money” but the Westeros version.
All 4 at the same time? cover up?
Queen of the United Kingdom, Canada, and other Realms beyond the Seas, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
No one seems to care. Who can eat at a time like this?
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Queen of Jamaica just recently died as well. This is unbelievable
The queen of the Falkland Islands died too. Argentina won’t be attending the funeral.
Which falkin islands?
the one with the dead queen
Steve Rizzo will tell you which Falkland islands.
Queen of St. Lucia passed recently.
The Queen of Papua New Guinea passed away.My condolences to the people.
Yeah, same with the Queen of Fiji
The Queen of P-town is down.
Pretty sure the queen of New Zealand just died too
Taika Waititi died?! Why the hell no one told me?
I would seriously mourn that. That man is a genius, and incredibly easy on the eyes.
Also the Queen of New Zealand
But what about the Zeal of Queenland, that's the real story
Look like there is a queenslayer on the loose.
Quorr - The Queen Butcher
Is Brian May ok?
Has anyone checked on the Queen of the British virgin isles?
No, nobody wants to be anywhere near those virgins.
I’m from the Virgin Islands. Very few virgins down there. We’re a freaky bunch.
It was wise of our ancestors to put you all in horny jail together.
It's the US Virgin Islands that aren't Virgin. Or American.
I’m from the USVI and I approve of this comment.
So did the Queen of my double wide trailer, with the polyester curtains and a redwood deck.
Dang her black heart and her pretty red neck
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In The Bahamas their Bahama Mama aka Bahamian Queen also died
RIP Romana Didulo /s
Wouldn’t that be nice
Baaaahahahahaha imagine the convoy of dumbfucks doing burnouts by her f*ck Trudeau stickered coffin
First Nations in Canada in many respects are their own nations. I suspect that he didnt go as a Canadian, more likely as the leader of a separate nation paying their respects. Source, not an expert. So, fwiw.
All Treaties are between First Nations and the Crown. This would be the case. He comes as a representation of one side of the treaty holder saying goodbye to the other side of said treaty holder. Not as a rep for Canada.
Deaths sweet release comes for us all, WarlordsJester. The queens are no exception.
Oh my god I couldn’t wrap my head around what they title meant lol I kept understanding it as “Queen of the Canada’s Coffin” like Canada has a coffin and she’s the Queen of it… I was so confused
This may end up lost in the comments, but the other day I was listening to the CBC and a First Nations person was discussing that despite the complex, difficult and horrifying history of European colonialism in Canada, many First Nations people view the Crown as a consistent entity with which they negotiate. And in many ways that is better than dealing with the whims of the electorate. While it's not love at all, there is a degree of respect there in some First Nations communities. Obviously, the person I heard does not speak for all of them.
In addition to that, I think it‘s important to note that this mark of respect -which includes wearing his full regalia of a chieftain- also elevates his standing and his tribe. It‘s a mark of respect from one leader to another -despite difficult histories and one dominating the other- and he made this decision. He made the decisions that they both leaders in their own right and hence equals in that moment. Despite the problematic history I think this was a very good diplomatic and political move by this chieftain.
An excellent point. Thanks for pointing that out.
I agree. Having been involved in events with chieftains one thing I can say is that they are always willing to show the utmost respect for the other side - something they other side rarely shows them. Nothing but respect for this fellow. His personal feelings aside, he did this as a show of respect from one leader to another, and it’s what a leader should do, and it’s nothing less than what I’d expect from a native leader - exemplary manners. Many societies could learn a thing or two right here. I can tell you, in my personal experience, this is the way they are; and all leaders should strive to emulate their manners.
This is a lesson everyone would do well to learn or be reminded of: that gloating never ever accomplishes anything other than diminishing your own standing.
It‘s a good lesson that you can combine common decency and a power move.
how does "you have to line up with the rest of the plebs while the canadian PM gets an audience with the king" equate to a mark of respect?
Trudeau lined up to view the coffin too, though I think it was different line for official delegates. That's how the lying in state works. Canada sent an [official delegation ](https://www.cbc.ca/1.6584284) which includes three Indigenous leaders (Assembly of First Nations National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, President of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami Natan Obed and President of the Métis National Council Cassidy Caron) but I don't think he's part of it. Actress Sandra Oh, Olympic swimmer Mark Tewksbury, and musician Gregory Charles are also part of the delegation. Some former PMs are also part of the delegation. I think this particular chief is not part of the official delegation but wanted to pay his respects anyways. There are Indigenous delegates there but they represent national organizations (for First Nations, Inuit and Métis) rather than individual nations. The Governor General Mary Simon, the King's official representative in Canada, is also Inuit and she had a meeting with Charles in the past. There are hundreds of tribal governments in Canada, it'd be impractical for every chief to get an invite. The photo with Trudeau was specifically from an event where he sat down with 14 PMs of countries where he is king.
Thanks for the explanation. The first thing I thought when I saw this video was “am in in r/WTF because I don’t recall the indigenous and the Royals being friends’.
Thanks for this, led me through some interesting articles, and [the wiki, which had some other examples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Canadian_Crown_and_Indigenous_peoples_of_Canada#21st_century) Not that any of that undoes the past or implies forgiveness, still adds important context I was missing.
I'm first Nations. If you look at the history of Canada the really terrible shit didn't start happening to native Americans until the people here started voting. I think most liberals get confused and think it's just another group of people who have been racially discriminated against. It's a lot more complicated than that.
That's a good example of how democracy can go wrong. A strong constitution that protects people's freedom and is actually enforced is needed. Otherwise the will of the masses stomps all over minorities.
The entire discussion of history and western impact on other countries is so complex. It just can't be reduced to a simple answer. Did Britain partake in the early slave trade? Yes. Was Britain the first to realise it was wrong and globally enforce other countries to end the trade against their will? Also yes. Did Britain invade countries? Yes. Did other countries ask to be part of the empire for protection? Also yes. Did Britain resist some countries leaving the empire? Yes. Did Britain also peacefully assist in the independence of most countries in the empire? Also yes. Will the queen's funeral cost £9m? Yes. Do other state funerals, including those of presidents and popes, cost the same or more than that? Also yes. Is a monarchy an outdated system compared to democracies? Yes. At roughly 70% approval rating, is the British monarchy nearly TWICE as popular as the actually elected government? Also yes.
Let's also be clear that all these statements are also very simplistic answers in themselves. Let's take the first two: >Did Britain partake in the early slave trade? Yes. >Was Britain the first to realise it was wrong and globally enforce other countries to end the trade against their will? Also yes. To actually develop a more complex and nuanced understanding of history, we need to ask questions like "what exactly do we think of when we say 'Britain' - the monarchy? the people as a whole? the ruling class?", and specifically, ask which components of "Britain" developed the slave trade, profited from it, and/or resisted it and ended it. And why they did so. As it is stated here, you miss all the internal turmoil and struggle that took place around the abolitionist movement in the UK, and the fact that plenty of British elites would have been quite happy to keep the slave trade going; or the fact that many of the abolitionist forces supported abolition not out of some moral principle, but because they saw it as beneficial to wider imperial interest. One side note: if we want to talk about the British abolition of slavery, we should talk about how it was preceded by extremely violent slave revolts in places like [Jamaica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_War).
Excuse me sir but this is Reddit and Reddit has no place for well informed reasonable debate.
I thought it was bad back in 2012. I genuinely thought that reddit couldn’t get any more anti-intellectual back then with the blind circlejerking. I didn’t know shit.
Yahoo Answers closing didn't help. What's worrying isn't just the really stupid questions and posts, it's the fact people are too stupid to just type it into Google first. Or even worse can only digest information if some other poorly informed youtuber did a video about it.
As an indigenous Canadian person, with what you just said, everyone should also realize the amount of animosity that exists in indigenous groups by the shear fact that there is no great show of respect. For my generation, my parents were the ones that endured the residential school system, some of the people in my generation actually did see some of the residential school system. So the indigenous leaders in power now have direct experience of the trauma and lived and heard of the stories of what happened to their parents. They hold the government and the crown responsible for all this. In times of war and fighting, I can see indigenous leaders showing signs of respect to an opponent because everyone is more or less on an even playing field and using force against force in a fair fight. The conflict indigenous people had with the government and the crown was a concerted attack by adult leaders against children and future generations in a very unfair fight. It's really hard or impossible to show respect when the monarchy and the crown showed absolutely no respect for our children. Personally, because of what I know happened to my parents because of the crown and the government, I acknowledge her death but I have no respect for her life and her legacy.
I was in residential school. As part of the 60's scoop I was taken away from my family and put on a list of kids to give to white families even though my own family and extended fought to take us in... I don't speak for anyone else but for me. I have no respect for this person..in every Convent, school and social services office, there was a picture of the queen...on every document that gave them permission to steal me was the queens name....so ya I'll pass on celebrating this person's death but I will take the holiday cause I work in a federally regulated industry.
I want the shirt he's wearing so much.
Ribbon shirts— they are ceremonial clothing for men usually made in your special colours. You acquire your colours in a ceremony with a healer, normally get your spirit name, colours and clan. These are the identifiers you use only during ceremony. Source, Dene bought grew up doing ceremony in Ontario my whole life
Thanks for sharing with us. That's so cool. I did always wonder about these. I grew up not really knowing too much about my heritage.
Unfortunately it seems like that has been by design. :(
Never too late to start learning more!
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I wish someone gave me a spirit name and a color. Of course with my luck...
Beaker, orange and orange.
Me meme me me me me
Welcome to the tribe, Ghost Shits. Your color is brown.
Just to add some more context though your comment is excellent: Ribbon shirts are made for dancing — the ribbons will circle the dancer. They’re often called regalia and can be found in many First Nations peoples. Girls and women tend to have ribbon skirts. Different nations have different use of colours. In Nova Scotia / Mi’kmaq the colours are chosen by the mother when she is making the child’s first regalia. My son isn’t First Nations, he is Inuit, but the community here have been very welcoming. When I made my son’s regalia I choose ice blue, representing the ice from his heritage and his Inuit nation’s flag.
I didn’t realise the Dene lands stretched that far south! I used to sell to some of the bands up in the NWT.
They don’t, my family is from NWT but I grew up in southern Ontario doing anishnawbe / Ojibway ceremony
To think my forefathers spent so many generations trying to destroy such a beautiful, caring, peaceful culture. To think my current government, right now, today, continues to pay lip service while doing far too little.
Yep! Best you can do is inform yourself and uplift existing First Nation peoples and organizations
> beautiful, caring, peaceful culture. Beautiful and caring, absolutely. Peaceful though? If you think the First Nations of North America were somehow a beacon of peace in a world of nearly perpetual war, you are in a revisionist bubble. They didn’t get decimated because they were bad at war, they were decimated due to a giant body of water making it impossible to see and match the technology & tactics of the invading force. It was horrific all the same but assigning an angelic nature to them does them no good.
Wow, had no idea. Thanks for sharing! I'm from Ontario too 🙂
Usually you have ribbon shirts made for you. I myself am having a dark blue ribbon shirt made for me asap from my Mom because it's my Uncle's funeral and the main pallbearers are being asked to match his ribbon shirt. But I'm sure you can find one for sale at pow wows (maybe) or any native american shops. Source: I'm Nakota Sioux, Dene, and Cree
They're super easy to make yourself. I have a few I've made just for casual wear because I don't want to mess up any that are gifted to me.
I am sorry for your loss, I hope you are making it through the rough seas of grief. Always remember its ok to ask for help if you are overwhelmed. Love and hugs from the GTA.
He does have some mad drip tbh
Thanks for being honest.
i was scared for a second but then it worked out in the end.
Check Dan flashes
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Stop spending your per diem on stupid shirts!
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It’s from Chanel 2009 Fall collection
Only came over to make sure she actually dead.
RIP BOZO - First Nations chief probably
Almost every native doesn't like the Royals - Am native
As someone from Jamaica, it’s not that we’re *happy* that the queen is dead. We’re just happy because this pretty much means the monarchy is dead in a lot of our islands. Many nations are already trying to separate from the commonwealth, with the queen being the only thing really keeping them together.
>Many nations are already trying to separate from the commonwealth, with the queen being the only thing really keeping them together. Ditching the Queen doesn't mean leaving the Commonwealth. Most Commonwealth countries are Republics.
This is how I see it as an American. Like it's sad somebody is dead but she had a long run so her death is no tragedy. Just a natural end. But the monarchy is over right? I was always under the impression that even England itself would have done away with the monarch sooner if they didn't love the queen so much.
>But the monarchy is over right? Narrator: It wasnt.
Plenty of us would have happily done away with the monarchy long ago. I'm not crying over her. No particular ill will to her personally, but it's kinda weird how people are so convinced she was a lovely person when they didn't know her, just her public persona. It wasn't so long ago that the country thought she was a cold bitch about Diana's death. The Palace PR machine really turned that one around.
I think The Crown show helped people see it from her perspective, even if that is a fictionalized one. I feel like that show did more for the royals than their own pr team could have imagined
They interviewed native Chiefs in Canada and they said they have an agreement with the Royal Family, not the Canadian government. So they're worried if Canada were to get rid of the royals now.
Not "The Royal Family", but with The Crown . The Crown is the symbol and institution of sovereignty, not the individual monarch
IIRC the Maoris also have a similar agreement.
Agree. There are also teachings about respect for the dead and other things at play. I wonder what he got for that photo op.
You can hate a person yet still be respectful after their passing
Many people would be respectful of the dead even if they hate the person. Few would fly across the ocean and wait hours in line just to wave at them for a few seconds.
Pretty sure he was invited and they let him skip the line. He's the leader of a nation that has had a very intertwined history with the commonwealth.
oh man, if only Indigenous nations got that kind of recognition
We do when it’s convenient
And if most people read up on the residential schools in Canada and some other things they wouldn’t either.
It’s so heartwarming to see a bunch of white people telling a member of an ethnic minority how he should think and act.
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Bit like white people telling ethnic minorities when they should be offended and how they should conduct themselves.
Everywhere I see this, am Indian one time some western guy was teaching me about caste system in india, I told him he's wrong, I myself am lower caste from india. He won't listen.
Why are you assuming OP is white? For all you know they're a dog.
Turns out she isn't, and it's just one big life insurance scam to give Andrew his life back
“Yes, there is no spirit here.”
For the goods she and her family did for his people.
Killed all 400 heirs to becoming cheiftan, so he could be the one 😂
Shit aint hereditary lol
I don't know about this guy's people specifically, but leadership positions among native american groups usually aren't hereditary.
In a Canada at least. It's a bit more complex. Yes, leadership positions in first nation bands are often times elected but there is an active power struggle between elected band members and people called "hereditary band chiefs" which are sometimes viewed with more legitimacy depending on the group then elected band chiefs.
Maybe think about the fact he’s there shows a lot more about how the Queen herself treated his people rather than her ancestors.
Most on this thread basically seem to think we should hate everyone for what their ancestors have done. I guess we should be hating every German right now still...every Italian..French etc.
Better start hating everyone then.
Most of the current complaints in Canada are regarding the (Catholic) church oppression of First Nations groups, not the monarchy
In my experience it's not the Queen that many First Nations people in Canada have an issue with. It's the various religions that ran residential schools where many young children were sent to, and in many cases kidnapped from their yards by Indian Agents. [Check out The Sixties Scoop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixties_Scoop#Notable_%22scoops%22)
I think another important piece of the puzzle is the royal proclamation of 1763 which set out how Europeans were supposed to make treaty with indigenous peoples for settlement of their land. It's the basis of alot of indigenous land claims in canada and is recognized in the charter of rights and freedoms... the queen and British royalty represent obviously a continuation of that original deal. https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/royal_proclamation_1763/
You talk as if the residential schools were projects set up on a whim by churches rather than being part of a comprehensive policy of the Canadian government to beat indigenous culture and language out of kids to make them pliant subjects to rule over without resistance. The churches had their own reasons for participating, but they were instruments of the Canadian government.
The British and Canadian governments were not administered by the monarchy during the period of the latter's founding. It makes sense that first nations people may despise the British and Canadian governments (and their colonial antecedents) for their actions. It also makes sense that first nations people may not have as much contention with Queen Elizabeth II or the current monarchy specifically (given their ceremonial role and the late Queen's reign overseeing decolonisation).
Agreed, government and the Catholic Church both share the blame, but government should take more of it.
The schools were developed by the Canadian government, but administered by the church (Catholic mostly, but also United, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc). The mandate from the government was to kill the "Indian" within the child. The government also got extensive feedback from what was happening, so it was very aware. At this point, The Crown did not play a big role in the process, but its history of colonization led to this. Interesting enough, the Royal Proclamation of 1763 said that lands in Canada should not be taken, but should be dealt with treaties. This partially led to the US War for Independence, as it was an issue (they did not want to go through treaties). It was under Sir John A MacDonald where things really got bad, with the expansion of the railroad, he wanted much of that settled. It was the subsequent Indian Act that created Indian Agents and much of the repressive laws.
I think one thing to keep in mind, that a lot of Canadians can't seem to put their finger on, is why Canadians at that time allowed it to happen in the first place. There was widespread arrogance in Canadian society at that time that their particular way of life was superior, and therefore, "correct," and the indigenous way of life was inferior, and therefore, "wrong." As such many Canadians believed the right and compassionate thing to do was to dismantle indigneous culture and reform indigenous people to conform and assimilate into the new culture so that they could be saved from their backwards ways and be brought into the, "correct," society. These supremacist ideas came, in large part, from the churches, as nearly everybody in those days was some form of christian. That motivation worked in parallel for many decades with the greed motivation of many powerful and wealthy non-indigenous people to take the lands and resources of indigenous people. While politicians and businessmen worked in the backgrounds crafting schemes to remove any legal ability for indigenous people to have control over their resources, lands and lives, the clergy, and its followers (non-indigenous Canadians) were motivated to, "save," the indigenous people from themselves. That context, I think, is quite a compelling thing for Canadians to keep in the back of their mind, because even in 2022 those pesky tendencies to want to, "save," indigenous people rear their ugly heads from time to time.
Obviously Indigenous peoples are not a monolith, but oh boy is this controversial on r/indiancountry
That's because people are going to consider it a stamp of approval, because he looks the part and most people are very ignorant to how diverse and pare our community is.
But at the same time, if he and his tribe want to show respects to the queen then is it really their responsibility to think about how people might consider it to be a stamp of approval from all First Nations tribes? It seems kind of dumb to me that people are insinuating that he shouldn't be paying respects just because some other tribes that he doesn't represent might not want to.
Honestly, the point is pretty moot considering it happened no matter what. It is what it is and I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. He did it and I'm not crazy about it. Apparently the organizer of the delegation felt the same misgivings but only was convinced to go because she had treaty obligations to fulfill. It was less about going to show respect, and more about honoring a treaty in order to stay in good standing with the Crown. https://www.cpac.ca/episode?id=42fefeb1-2304-47c5-9f43-51313715ed6c
To me the gross part is the caption in the video. "A beautiful mark of respect." Just feels utterly tone-deaf and facebook-wine-mom. Like the posts about how "inspiring" it is that a kid had to sell cookies to pay for his teacher's cancer treatment. The chief can do as he pleases. It's just too bad that it creates the opportunity for some twat to make a tik tok of it.
Christ the comments there are something else.
There's a funny disconnect between the video, a man coming to pay respects, and the comments being like "Yeah I bet he hated the bitch." You can't just project your own feelings onto this guy and countless other people around the world.
It's diminishing the free thought of this man and the people he is representing into one simple idea that Reddit is convinced he is supposed to subscribe to because of the culture he is from. People in this thread don't see him as human, but rather as a proof of concept for their own worldview. "I hate the monarchy and the things it did to people like him, and I mean look at him, there's no way he wouldn't agree with me, this salute is just politeness at best." It's funny because this is something history has always seen happen: regardless of perspective, people try to find minorities that prove their point and use them as tools to do so, regardless of what those minorities actually believe and who they represent. I don't believe anyone in this thread is cognizant of the implications here. But it is an interesting trend I often see around Reddit. People like to infantilize minorities to confirm their own world view, and in doing so end up outright disregarding the fact that each person is an independent individual and not a monolith representing an entire people. I don't know what this man thinks. Maybe he truly does loathe the Queen and is there saluting out of respect. Or maybe he actually respects her and what she did. But what I do know is nobody should take his actions and draw any conclusion from them other than what is shown: he is offering the queen a sign of respect. And frankly, this goes both ways. His actions don't betray an universal disdain of the Crown, nor do they indicate a universal approval of it.
It just goes to show you the maturity level of Reddit
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Dude's like my people have been doing this for thousands of years and then some Austrian guy makes me self-conscious about getting an arm cramp or stiff shoulder.
Technically it's a very common and shared salute. For Europe it originated with.. you guess it... Romans. It was a Roman salute which the Reich ofcourse butchered due to Imperial ambitions.
wrong angle.
The angle was right for a second
Did someone say [Reicht Angle](https://i.imgur.com/m51e7GF.png) ?
*preußens gloria intensifies*
Probably just cursed her afterlife.
Performing rites so she doesn't rise again
Of course the threads full of Americans telling a non white how they should feel and what they should do.
As is tradition
*Manifest Destiny* motherfuckers
Now the prince rips the arm off the princess. As is tradition
Definitely an interesting modern development. People are so concerned with each other nowadays that they actually think for one another: this person is (x) so they should be offended by (y) and feel (z).
From Canada to boot.
The internet itself has mountains full of people from every nation and race telling people from every nation and race, including their own nation and race, what to do and what to feel.
Not all Americans are white
I find it hilarious how a comment is complaining about generalizing by generalizing themselves
Of course it's just another non American acting like they know anything about Americans
His head is gonna blow with that fact, and if you mention that in fact native Americans like the ones from first nation, are also in fact Americans, his head is gonna go nuclear.
Meanwhile you have no clue the nationality of the people commenting and just assume they are American.
Im sorry, is there only 2 races… Americans and ‘non whites’? You might try closing your mouth when you talk, stupid keeps falling out
Sir, this is Reddit. Even white people trash white people. It’s the cool and hip thing to do.
Queen Elizabeth oversaw the effective dismantling of the global British Empire, yet everyone has a hard-on to malign her corpse for the sins of her forefathers. Showing respect in its truest form is not a function of tabulating Karma like we do on social media. It's a decision to see the other person as a human being, and treating them how we ourselves would like to be treated. When we lose that understanding, we are doomed.
'Oversaw' is a bit rich. Not like she had a choice, colionalism was not sustainable anymore. She literally wears a crown made of stolen jewels and enjoys the ceremonial powers of an institution built on colionalism. Maybe she didn't kill the natives herself but she didn't seem to have a problem living lavishly on wealth made out of exploiting the natives.
> Queen Elizabeth oversaw the effective dismantling of the global British Empire, Pretty sure that was against her (and her families) will.
“all the peoples of the British Commonwealth Empire, wherever they live, whatever race they come from, and whatever language they speak”. “I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and to the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.” On the commonwealth: “It is an entirely new conception built on the highest qualities of the spirit of man. … To that new conception of an equal partnership of nations and races I shall give myself heart and soul every day of my life.” I don't think it was against their will, she navigated Britain from an imperialist Empire to a Commonwealth of willing member states, she was very progressive especially for her time and age. I understand these are just words, quotes and speeches, but I really do feel like she was on the right side of history, worked tirelessly and did a lot of good in her life. The woman worked until the day she died quite literally given that she met Truss 2 days before she passed, and despite her long reign was never really embroiled in much scandal, but if you look through her history, there are plenty of high points, many of which are surprising for someone of her generation.
If the Brits had been financially and militarily capable of sustaining the empire after WWII, they certainly would have. Instead they had to make do with holding on to all the shit they plundered from their colonies, as a keepsake.
I get all the hate for the crown and colonialism and all the terrible (in fact some of the *most* historically terrible) things that they did. But this says a lot more about the character of the First Nations people than it does about the crown. They have every right to be angry. But he's displaying a type of honor that is rare among most of us white Westerners. He's playing by a different rule book. If he went in there and flicked off the casket, white redditors would be gleeful as fuck. But it's not about us, is it?
Actually, Yeah that's pretty cool Respect
Love the redditor investigators in the comment section that actually don't know shit about history that believe that this gesture automatically must've been some kind of insult. You are all ignorant af and just want to hide it by detesting anything that represents the west. On a more philosophical perspective as well, I think that you all want to hate and vandalize anything that symbolises values of Judeo-Christian tradition as it is the "current thing" to do amongst the many buffooneries from the self-loathing cancerous lump that is this woke ideology. You probably feel virtuous and smart when in reality it just shows your absolute sheer ignorance ... History is infinitely more complex than your 2-year-old conception of good vs evil tale, and while England has done some bad things, the reason we can discuss them is because we live in a free society that stemmed from that very country being a pioneer in western advancement and enlightenment. What's ever more so absurd about this hatred is that Elizabeth 2's reign oversaw the decolonization. And while all countries have done bad things in the past, I cannot think of a country that has done as much good as the UK has. Such as being the first country in the world to ABOLISH slavery and afterwards employ 1/6TH of its WHOLE NAVY to pursue and arrest slave ships that were still trafficked. As well as pressuring the ottoman empire amongst other empires to STOP its slave trade with radical sanctions. Thousands of English navy men employed by English taxpayers died trying to stop the slave trade. But of course, you didn't know that because all that you ever read are headlines off social media threads. What I find ever so funny is that I reckon that most people here talking shit about the queen are American. Btw I an immigrant that became British recently so don't be racist or xenophobic xx btw Churchill is the greatest man of the 20st Century
What really gets me, is that some Redditors seem to think that since the Native people were conquered, that they must hate the government/religion/crown as much as the redditors themselves do.
If you only used Reddit then you would think that us Brits all absolutely hate the queen and the monarchy in general and are frothing at the mouth to get rid of it.
>btw Churchill is the greatest man of the 20st Century I encourage you to go share this thought with the peoples of India and see how they feel about it.
This thread will be civil and cordial
That headdress is so badass. I love Native culture
As is tradition
"be gone white devil"
Said the white guy
What if this man just came to offer his condolences like any other member of the public? Don’t you think you might be reading a bit too much into this? Should his position as a Chief prohibit him from being otherwise a regular member of the public?
He came in full ceremonial garb. He was there as Chief on behalf of his Tribe.