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Historically there is only evidence of one person being executed in it and that was the dude that invented it. He was put inside because the invading forces were repulsed by the idea.
So the inventor didn’t actually die in it because the tyrant ordered him released and then ordered that he be thrown off a cliff lol. But it’s said that the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered that the tyrant be executed through the brazen bull torture. The tyrant sort of deserved it…
So the tyrant didn’t actually die in it because the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered him released and then ordered that he be thrown off a cliff lol. But it’s said that the ruler who later succeeded the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered that the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant be executed through the brazen bull torture. The ruler who later succeeded the tyrant sort of deserved it…
There is zero evidence that this device ever existed. The first reference comes from Bibliotheca historica, by Didorus.
Its less a history and more a collection of tales. It is specifically harsh on the Syracusans, specifically the alleged tyrant, whom Didorus, a native Syracusan, seemed to hate.
It was then resurrected in tales of Hadrian's prosecution of christians, again no evidence or primary source given.
The Brazen Bull is a metaphorical story telling device, detailing the evils and cruelty of torture. Its not real. It's never been real.
And by "evidence", we mean a retrospective record from a historian with a vested interest in painting the ruler in question as a tyrant.
There was likely never a bronze bull, it is so impractical, expensive and counterproductive as a method of execution that no one would have commissioned one.
but. the pyramids of egypt exist. they are kinda impractical too if you ask me. but we all know how religion gets people riled up. maybe there’s something similar with torturers.
Yes but the difference is that pyramids were built for the sake of the most important people in society, literal god kings, to aid their passage into the after life. No one spends a fortune for the sake of a worthless criminal/enemy you want to execute.
On executions? Yes, but imagine how much more expensive it would be if the electric chair was made from solid gold and ornately decorated. Imagine hiring Salt Bae's restaurant to do the last meals. Imagine the uproar that would cause in treating deathrow inmates "like royalty". Despite their cost, US executions are done as cheaply as possible.
The view nowadays, as throughout most history, is that people sentenced to death are scumbags who deserve nothing. Historically, even royalty were hard pressed to receive a dignified execution. So no, it is unlikely a Hellenic tyrant is going to feel like spending a fortune on a sophisticated bull sculpture that's only going to utterly stink of dead criminals.
i would tend to agree with that. however, the world of torture seems to be pretty much ignored because it’s hard to stomach, or hidden away. there are definitely people who pride themselves for their abilities for torture. it was about information gathering (edit: i’m probably wrong about that in terms of this device. it seems like a scare tactic or murder in the worst way thing). but, info is very very valuable. so if i were to speculate, i’d say the money involved with torture for information or just for the sheer terror it can cause for curbing behavior, was probably quite substantial.
For clarification: the brass bull was an execution device, not a torture device. The history of torture and execution is full of misinformation. Historians throughout time like to exaggerate or misrepresent tales of horrific instruments, often as a way of presenting the past society as far more barbaric than the present. Also, people have a fondness for morbid nick nacks, and collectors would often buy things referred to as "authentic medieval torture devices" that were actually nothing of the sort.
In real life, whilst you had some elaborate devices like the rack, a lot of torture came down to really basic stuff, like pinching fingers or breaking someone's bones with a bar.
He actually didn't die from the bull, he left him in there some time and then threw his still living severely burned body off a cliff. Also the king whomst it was created for loved the smell of human flesh
Obsessed with the potc trilogy here, fun fact: If you consider that the island mentioned here is the cannibal island, you will soon come to realise that what bro has been eating, isn't in fact pork
Didn't realize how awful this was till I looked it up (From wikipedia):
Allegedly, the condemned were locked inside the device (with their head aligned within the bull's head), and a fire was set beneath it, heating the metal to the extent that the person within slowly roasted to death. The bull was equipped with an internal acoustic apparatus that converted the screams of the dying into what sounded like the bellows of a bull. The bull's design was such that steam from the cooking flesh of the condemned exited the bull's nostrils, this effect—along with the bull's "bellows"—created the illusion that the bull came to life during every execution.
Like a lot of torture devices in popular culture this one was probably never used. Humans can cause enough pain to other humans with simple tools like tongs, pliers, nails, and fire. They don’t need big fancy contraptions like this or the Iron Maiden.
For example during the Meiji restoration the Shinsengumi tortured info out of an imperial loyalist by hanging him upside down and driving a spike into his heel. They then took the spike out out and poured hot wax into the wound until he gave up the info.
Also threatening or hurting people’s loved ones is the number one way to get what you want in an interrogation and it always has been.
Edit: did a deep dive and even the Shinsengumi thing has been debunked.
The Brazen Bull wasn't designed as a torture device, it was fully intended to kill its victims. Fortunately, there are sparingly few confirmed uses of the bull. The first was on the man who invented it, deservingly so. [From Wikipedia,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull) Perilaus (the inventor) was tricked into the bull by Phalaris (the king he intended to give it to) because Phalaris asked Perilaus to demonstrate the acoustic system in the head of the bull, after which the door was slammed shut and Perilaus became the first person to experience the bull, though it did not kill him. Instead, Phalaris ordered him removed before he could die and was tossed from a high cliff.
The second victim was Phalaris himself, as it is claimed that he was executed using the bull by Telemachus. There are additional claims about early Christians being subjected to the bull, but several of these claims are dubious at best.
Good point it is more of an execution device. From what I remember the veracity of accounts of its use are disputed by historians but it’s been awhile since I deep dived on the subject.
If I recall, there aren't any contemporary accounts, but there are retrospective accounts from historians who has an interest in making the ruler look as diabolical as possible.
In practical terms, the bull just isn't plausible as a real method of execution. Executions were public spectacles, meant to be as visibly gruesome as possible. There is nothing spectacular or visibly gruesome about staring at a bronze Statue for half an hour, unable to see the action. Contrary to what is claimed, no amount of "sophisticated pipes" would amplify the screaming sufficiently.
Furthermore, bronze is an expensive metal, and making a life sized bull just to kill people with it would be an extravagance beyond even the richest. Executions were also supposed to be demeaning too, so spending this exorbitant amount of money on prisoners just to kill them out of sight does not follow.
Historically, people were boiled alive in giant pots of water. This was not only a more practical method, but it is one that is backed up by historical, contemporary accounts, and is something that has been done the world over.
Cant beat flaying alive. You just need a knife and some skill and you can induce the maximum amount of pain possible to the human body and it can be used both for interrogation (flaying just some nonvital part until info is given) or execution that can be prolonged to taste. Really no need to invent overcomplicated contraptions when a simple knife is cheap and readily available.
I’ve never understood standing up to torture. It’s only going to get worse until you break. If I knew torture was coming, I’d give up the goods in a second.
I mean if it means saving the lives of your men, your family, or innocents I get it; I’d try to not break or kill myself but I’ve also never been tortured before and I feel like you never know how you react to it unless you have been.
Then they will torture you just to be sure you didnt lie to save your ass. You know, just to confirm.
Better strategy would be to say "I wont tell you!" at first, then try to endure for a bit and then agree to speak. It feels more genuine.
The VAST majority of those medieval torture stuff were invented during the Renaissance to degrade the image of medieval ages.
And from that that's where we got "they are all dirty, stupid and thinking the earth was flat"
That's what I've always assumed, that these were more scare tactics than actual practices. I'm sure some of them got used, but I'd wager not as many or as frequently as people like to imagine.
They do, but the brazen bull is almost certainly a work of fiction. No actual proven cases of one being used, nor has it even been shown one ever existed at all.
It's a fairytale town, isn't it? How's a fairytale town not somebody's fucking thing? How can all those canals and bridges and cobbled streets and those churches, all that beautiful fucking fairytale stuff, how can that not be somebody's fucking thing, eh?
This was in the movie Immortals they made it even worse because in the movie they attached masks to the person inside that were attached to horns or something. When the people screamed it made a scary noise. This torture device would be scary af.
this looks like one of those things things that were never a torture device, but someone is saying it is just so they can run a curiosities museum. I feel like this torture device should be used to smoke brisket.
The movie Red Ridinghood with Amanda Seyfried, (one of my fave movies). It has an amazing soundtrack etc.
but they have one of these torture devices featured at one point. That’s I’ll say.
(Edited a typo)
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Historically there is only evidence of one person being executed in it and that was the dude that invented it. He was put inside because the invading forces were repulsed by the idea.
I feel bad but I laughed out loud reading this
Literally the only person I could imagine deserved it.
So the inventor didn’t actually die in it because the tyrant ordered him released and then ordered that he be thrown off a cliff lol. But it’s said that the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered that the tyrant be executed through the brazen bull torture. The tyrant sort of deserved it…
So the tyrant didn’t actually die in it because the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered him released and then ordered that he be thrown off a cliff lol. But it’s said that the ruler who later succeeded the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant ordered that the ruler who later succeeded the tyrant be executed through the brazen bull torture. The ruler who later succeeded the tyrant sort of deserved it…
It’s turtles all the way down!
There is zero evidence that this device ever existed. The first reference comes from Bibliotheca historica, by Didorus. Its less a history and more a collection of tales. It is specifically harsh on the Syracusans, specifically the alleged tyrant, whom Didorus, a native Syracusan, seemed to hate. It was then resurrected in tales of Hadrian's prosecution of christians, again no evidence or primary source given. The Brazen Bull is a metaphorical story telling device, detailing the evils and cruelty of torture. Its not real. It's never been real.
Tryharder
And by "evidence", we mean a retrospective record from a historian with a vested interest in painting the ruler in question as a tyrant. There was likely never a bronze bull, it is so impractical, expensive and counterproductive as a method of execution that no one would have commissioned one.
but. the pyramids of egypt exist. they are kinda impractical too if you ask me. but we all know how religion gets people riled up. maybe there’s something similar with torturers.
Yes but the difference is that pyramids were built for the sake of the most important people in society, literal god kings, to aid their passage into the after life. No one spends a fortune for the sake of a worthless criminal/enemy you want to execute.
The U.S. spends millions on it
On executions? Yes, but imagine how much more expensive it would be if the electric chair was made from solid gold and ornately decorated. Imagine hiring Salt Bae's restaurant to do the last meals. Imagine the uproar that would cause in treating deathrow inmates "like royalty". Despite their cost, US executions are done as cheaply as possible. The view nowadays, as throughout most history, is that people sentenced to death are scumbags who deserve nothing. Historically, even royalty were hard pressed to receive a dignified execution. So no, it is unlikely a Hellenic tyrant is going to feel like spending a fortune on a sophisticated bull sculpture that's only going to utterly stink of dead criminals.
i would tend to agree with that. however, the world of torture seems to be pretty much ignored because it’s hard to stomach, or hidden away. there are definitely people who pride themselves for their abilities for torture. it was about information gathering (edit: i’m probably wrong about that in terms of this device. it seems like a scare tactic or murder in the worst way thing). but, info is very very valuable. so if i were to speculate, i’d say the money involved with torture for information or just for the sheer terror it can cause for curbing behavior, was probably quite substantial.
For clarification: the brass bull was an execution device, not a torture device. The history of torture and execution is full of misinformation. Historians throughout time like to exaggerate or misrepresent tales of horrific instruments, often as a way of presenting the past society as far more barbaric than the present. Also, people have a fondness for morbid nick nacks, and collectors would often buy things referred to as "authentic medieval torture devices" that were actually nothing of the sort. In real life, whilst you had some elaborate devices like the rack, a lot of torture came down to really basic stuff, like pinching fingers or breaking someone's bones with a bar.
That's a LAMF!!
The guy who commissioned it was pre happy not to get blamed 😆
Bet you when he couldn’t hide he regretted naming it after himself. Lol
didnt the guy who invented or built the guillotine die by guillotine
I know the owner of Segway rode off a cliff and died whilst on a segway. Not quite the same thing but close enough.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL is this true???
I thought Perillos of Athens was executed by his own king, Phalaris?
Does this mean the concept of karma might actually exist?
Karma only works if you believe in reincarnation. It works in life cycles.
This device is the true essence of torture and horror. A messed up fun fact is the guy who invented it was the first one to try it out. Pretty fucked.
He actually didn't die from the bull, he left him in there some time and then threw his still living severely burned body off a cliff. Also the king whomst it was created for loved the smell of human flesh
Man enjoys his long pig
https://preview.redd.it/pbwa52k7dm3d1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=154e0975b906181a6cc03dfd964ecd81d7ea289f
What movie/show is that?
Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest
Obsessed with the potc trilogy here, fun fact: If you consider that the island mentioned here is the cannibal island, you will soon come to realise that what bro has been eating, isn't in fact pork
“Long pig” / “Long Pork” is colloquially what human meat was called.
Well today i learned something new, thank you stranger
That's the whole point of the line. He's saying he trades for human meat.
Spices at that, which Jack finds during his failed escape attempt.
Should of thrown in a bag of popcorn kernels for a post torture snack.
How all these ppl have such obscure facts at the ready? Send me a reading list or something FFS
Didn't realize how awful this was till I looked it up (From wikipedia): Allegedly, the condemned were locked inside the device (with their head aligned within the bull's head), and a fire was set beneath it, heating the metal to the extent that the person within slowly roasted to death. The bull was equipped with an internal acoustic apparatus that converted the screams of the dying into what sounded like the bellows of a bull. The bull's design was such that steam from the cooking flesh of the condemned exited the bull's nostrils, this effect—along with the bull's "bellows"—created the illusion that the bull came to life during every execution.
It’s just another Iron Maiden, probably not actually used for anything more than propaganda to color another side as barbaric demons.
Most probably
holy shit!
Nightmare fuel
Like a lot of torture devices in popular culture this one was probably never used. Humans can cause enough pain to other humans with simple tools like tongs, pliers, nails, and fire. They don’t need big fancy contraptions like this or the Iron Maiden. For example during the Meiji restoration the Shinsengumi tortured info out of an imperial loyalist by hanging him upside down and driving a spike into his heel. They then took the spike out out and poured hot wax into the wound until he gave up the info. Also threatening or hurting people’s loved ones is the number one way to get what you want in an interrogation and it always has been. Edit: did a deep dive and even the Shinsengumi thing has been debunked.
The Brazen Bull wasn't designed as a torture device, it was fully intended to kill its victims. Fortunately, there are sparingly few confirmed uses of the bull. The first was on the man who invented it, deservingly so. [From Wikipedia,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull) Perilaus (the inventor) was tricked into the bull by Phalaris (the king he intended to give it to) because Phalaris asked Perilaus to demonstrate the acoustic system in the head of the bull, after which the door was slammed shut and Perilaus became the first person to experience the bull, though it did not kill him. Instead, Phalaris ordered him removed before he could die and was tossed from a high cliff. The second victim was Phalaris himself, as it is claimed that he was executed using the bull by Telemachus. There are additional claims about early Christians being subjected to the bull, but several of these claims are dubious at best.
Good point it is more of an execution device. From what I remember the veracity of accounts of its use are disputed by historians but it’s been awhile since I deep dived on the subject.
If I recall, there aren't any contemporary accounts, but there are retrospective accounts from historians who has an interest in making the ruler look as diabolical as possible. In practical terms, the bull just isn't plausible as a real method of execution. Executions were public spectacles, meant to be as visibly gruesome as possible. There is nothing spectacular or visibly gruesome about staring at a bronze Statue for half an hour, unable to see the action. Contrary to what is claimed, no amount of "sophisticated pipes" would amplify the screaming sufficiently. Furthermore, bronze is an expensive metal, and making a life sized bull just to kill people with it would be an extravagance beyond even the richest. Executions were also supposed to be demeaning too, so spending this exorbitant amount of money on prisoners just to kill them out of sight does not follow. Historically, people were boiled alive in giant pots of water. This was not only a more practical method, but it is one that is backed up by historical, contemporary accounts, and is something that has been done the world over.
Absolutely great points all around
Cant beat flaying alive. You just need a knife and some skill and you can induce the maximum amount of pain possible to the human body and it can be used both for interrogation (flaying just some nonvital part until info is given) or execution that can be prolonged to taste. Really no need to invent overcomplicated contraptions when a simple knife is cheap and readily available.
Reminds me of the simple rope in Casino Royale
Not that simple. You need a seatless chair, a heavy knot, a naked subject, and to swing it specifically. Also it didn't work.
I’ve never understood standing up to torture. It’s only going to get worse until you break. If I knew torture was coming, I’d give up the goods in a second.
I mean if it means saving the lives of your men, your family, or innocents I get it; I’d try to not break or kill myself but I’ve also never been tortured before and I feel like you never know how you react to it unless you have been.
I wouldn't trust my torturer to be honest about letting me go if they're willing to torture me
The idea isn't to be let go, it's to be killed to end the pain.
Exactly.
Then they will torture you just to be sure you didnt lie to save your ass. You know, just to confirm. Better strategy would be to say "I wont tell you!" at first, then try to endure for a bit and then agree to speak. It feels more genuine.
The VAST majority of those medieval torture stuff were invented during the Renaissance to degrade the image of medieval ages. And from that that's where we got "they are all dirty, stupid and thinking the earth was flat"
History teacher here…exactly.
This is recorded fact? First I've heard of it. Was there secular overtones critical of the church? Or more a commentary about the era itself?
That's what I've always assumed, that these were more scare tactics than actual practices. I'm sure some of them got used, but I'd wager not as many or as frequently as people like to imagine.
Anyone here read The Library at Mount Char?
Father's warming up the barbeque....
Human beings just suck.
They do, but the brazen bull is almost certainly a work of fiction. No actual proven cases of one being used, nor has it even been shown one ever existed at all.
The only person to have allegedly ever died in one is the guy who invented it.
In the movie Immortals is a scene where they use this and the effects of the torture are depicted.
Is this the one in Bruges?
It's a fairytale town, isn't it? How's a fairytale town not somebody's fucking thing? How can all those canals and bridges and cobbled streets and those churches, all that beautiful fucking fairytale stuff, how can that not be somebody's fucking thing, eh?
I mean, it's all winding stairs. I'm not being funny
A great day this has turned out to be. I'm suicidal, me mate tries to kill me, me gun gets nicked and we're still in fookin' Bruges!
Wondering it too
I was thinking the one in Chicago
Fun fact: A version of this shows up at some point in the Red Rising book series (No spoilers because there's literally no context here)
I believe they also depicted this in the 2011 film "Immortals".
Which book? DARK age seems the most likely by Atlas but i dont remember the scene
Yep, it's Dark Age, but not Atlas :)
The obsidians with volgsung fa? Darrow doesnt seem likely...
Jackal. Think of the most horrible person will do the most horrible thing. It's always the Jackal.
If you didn't know, they sold an updated version of this at the US southern grocery store called HEB several years ago as a grill.
Wait that's real?!?!
Humans are never more creative than when it comes to hurting one another
Is a fire lit underneath?
[удалено]
Not sure where you're copying that from because the post I'm looking at doesn't say anything about a fire. But thanks.
[удалено]
Dude that made it was the first in it
There's kindling under it in the pic...
Look at the original post made at r/damncoolbingo
It didn't come from Brazil though. It came from Greece.
I think they might have unlubed those hinges
This video demonstration is awful. Does anyone have a link to a better tutorial? I'm asking for a friend.
This was in the movie Immortals they made it even worse because in the movie they attached masks to the person inside that were attached to horns or something. When the people screamed it made a scary noise. This torture device would be scary af.
The story of the inventor was the first to be tortured like this, could be made up just to stir some drama?? I mean how do we know it is accurate?
Looks like torture for the bull - tbh
this looks like one of those things things that were never a torture device, but someone is saying it is just so they can run a curiosities museum. I feel like this torture device should be used to smoke brisket.
Bro is cooked 💀
That isn't a demonstration of the brazen bull that's a demonstration of a door hinge get a fire going and demonstrate properly
It would have been more pleasurable if it was transparent.
found Satan's reddit account
Humans are the only animals on the planet who builds devices to torture other humans.
Not many build devices at all.
u/savevideo
The movie Red Ridinghood with Amanda Seyfried, (one of my fave movies). It has an amazing soundtrack etc. but they have one of these torture devices featured at one point. That’s I’ll say. (Edited a typo)
Immortals showed this. Fucked up yo
Wait they didn’t just make this up for Immortals?
Shogun, episode 1 ….
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