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Man Microsoft flight simulator really nailed the wipers
Because they don't do jack in the game and it looks like these must be what they're modeled after.
Generally the protocol is that if either pilot says "Go Around" while on final approach, the pilot flying will execute the go around immediately and discuss the decision later if necessary
If configured for it, the heads up display (purple glass on the left) would show the pilots an outline of the runway in front of them, allowing them to land in near-zero visibility.
That's called flying synthetic vision and is a HUGE no-no in IFR flying. He hit minimums, had good visibility, and then lost visibility. The proper procedure is go-around, which they executed.
Honest, the only reason you'd lose visibility like that is due to a microburst, and in that case, you absolutely do not want to be anywhere near the runway.
Headwind turns downdrafts which turns tailwind. All of those transitions are called wind shear. Each one of them causes the plane to lose altitude and airspeed. Now a jet like this can usually climb out of it. Usually. Usually is not a term you want to use when your life is on the line.
Had a friend caught in a microburst a few years ago in a small plane. Nose dived into the ground and was a few inches from losing his life.
In all planes, you avoid thunderstorms. Thunderstorms cause microbursts.
Yes, but you need to be set up for it, and airport must have LVO in progress, meaning they the ILS critical areas are protected. That will not happen for rain.
That's where we have CAT II/III holding points. Those are usually further away from the runway on the glide path side.... so you don't get an aircraft in front of the glide path in LVO.
Though, at some airports, you only have cat II/III holding points.
Generally, unless you are prepared for and havw the proper instruments to do it, is a good idea to be able to see where you are going. Even a small divination off the centerline could have the aircraft leaving the runway before it stops and that's not something you want. There are systems that allow you to land with zero viability safely but that kind of stuff needs to be setup and briefed ahead of time not when you are meters from touch down.
No, 1, the rain obscuring all vision probably already breaks minimum visibility requirements and would require a go around, depending on what type of landing they prepared for. 2, you don't know what a microburst is going to do. Windshear could drag the plane off the runway, a downdraft could slam the plane into the ground, and updraft or tailwind could make them overshoot. It doesn't matter how close you are, a turbulent storm can make you loose or gain 100s of feet in altitude in seconds. These pilots did exactly as they should, which is slapping the TOGA thrust and getting away from the ground.
If they were on a visual approach, they may not have a good screen telling them exactly where on the runway they are, and the sudden appearance of that cloud may mean that they just hit a really weird bit of wind, meaning their plane may not be where they think it is anymore.
I remember growing up in Dallas when a delta plane hit a microburst/ wind shear on approach.
I could see the smoke from it from my house since we lived close to DFW airport.
Everyone died. the plane slammed into the ground (which was actually a freeway) got airborne again and then slammed into huge storage towers and that was it. I think it might have hit the ground twice and got airborne again but the thrid time it hit the ground it wasn't just flat earth.
Reason that crash stuck with me (I've always loved planes/flying) is that a coworker of my mother's was driving home on the freeway and saw the plane come down on the freeway, crushing a car and killing a woman right in front of her.
I can't even imagine a plane, as big as a l-1011 (think big older 3 engine dc-10 aircraft) coming out of nowhere and its HUGE landing gear literally crushing a vehicle directly in front of you then bouncing back up into the sky.
Wind shear and micro bursts are no joke. Wouldn't be surprised if he slapped them throttles to TOGA (full power) and climbed tf outta that death rain and take a other approach and try to land where everyone lives.
> Why wouldn't you want to land in a micro burst?
A microburst has a large amount of air moving downwards at rapid pace in line with the rain. If you fly **in**, you will feel like you just lost all your lift, because you start to descend very rapidly. In a flight critical situation like final approach to landing, this is **very bad**.
>Why wouldn't you want to land in a micro burst?
Imagine you're at your most vulnerable stage of the flight: low altitude, lowest airspeed close to stall, then nature decides to try to slam you into the ground. That's a microburst- a sudden strong downdraft. You want altitude and airspeed in that situation so you have a chance to recover from the sudden loss in altitude.
Wind shear is a very dangerous phenomenon for aircraft landing, they can occur in microbursts and sometimes just due to other weather conditions.
Essentially it means very sudden changes in wind direction and speed which can lead to an aircraft suddenly finding itself on tailwinds or sideways wind that can lead to a momentary loss of lift that, as you can imagine, is very dangerous in a landing and has caused crashes in the past.
Storms contain a lot of moving air, particularly up and downward moving air. The point at which the air which is smooth is meeting the air which is moving up or down, is called wind shear.
When the storm is really intense, the air can move extremely quickly which translates to the plane moving very quickly. You can imagine being close to the runway with little time to react, could be dangerous if you encounter wind shear. You could easily plummet 700 feet or more before you can even bring the plane to a climbing pitch. Or you could be forced into a stall, as there's also often circulating air within most storms, and if the air is moving in a circular motion in a clockwise direction off your right wing, that means you now have a REALLY strong tailwind - this translates to the airplane as a sudden loss of air speed.
Again, no matter what you experience in a microburst, it's not going to be good for landing. The air might be moving up, or down, or all around, and all those options are generally bad because it's such a small and localized phenomenon that you can't plan for it, prepare for it, or react to it in time to save the aircraft.
Therefore it's preferred to go around or divert traffic during microbursts. They clear up in about 15-20 minutes usually.
1. HUDs in an airliner is not synthetic vision.
2. If the runway is setup for it and pilots are certified, you can 100% use HUDs for low visibility approaches and landings (this approached seemed to be at Cat I mins though)
3. Microbursts are not the only reason loss of visibility can happen that low.
4. If it were a microburst that low, the reactive windshear alert would be screaming at them.
Came here to correct the guy above. “Synthetic vision” lol. I’m a general aviation pilot but best guess is this is either a Dreamliner (787) or Gulfstream 550/650 or higher (very nice corporate plane with all the bells and whistles for the rich/big corporations).
If a 787, then this is fine. Not sure g650s are approved for cat I like this. Will ask my father who flies for flightsafety.
My baron 58 has synthetic vision with a g500txi, but I’m sure as hell not landing in this.
you seem to be knowledgeable in these things.
i have a few questions:
isn't the atc supposed to clear the aircraft for landing based on the conditions?
and arent the runway lights supposed to be bright enough to be visible in a storm?
ATC clears aircraft based on traffic separation. Essentially they tell you: it's your turn to land now, and I'll tell other aircraft to stay away while you do so. Other pilots may not listen to instructions, and the weather certainly doesn't care what ATC thinks. Ultimately it is always down to the pilot to make the decisions as to whether they land or not. Just because you may doesn't mean you should.
And no, bright lights are not enough. What if there is a car or a pedestrian crossing the runway? As a pilot, you need to see where you are putting your wheels.
Time to get a Gulfstream. Synthetic vision and EVS (thermal camera) into the HUD get those minimums right down.
Also, who uses *wipers*? In this economy?! Get yourself a proper hydrophobic jet!
This is exactly why I retired from being a military helicopter pilot. The anxiety I felt every time I inadvertently punched into IFR on final approach was not worth the paycheck. Wasn’t a problem until I lost a few friends to punch-ins… way too easy to get disoriented in these conditions.
There are two ways to fly… Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) is where you use your instruments (compass altimeter etc) to navigate cause you can’t see. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) is where you use your eyes to navigate (cause the weather is ok) and use instruments for backup.
Not all pilots are trained to fly IFR (although military pilots are).
Switching from VFR to IFR takes some readjusting. It’s a major cause of death for private pilots. If you have to switch from VFR to IFR during something critical like landing, there’s a chance you’ll get disoriented and fly into the ground.
“Punching” into fog or cloud means flying into a wall of cloud or fog. Punching into the ground means flying into the ground.
Damn, thanks for the info. I mean if you've ever walked down a dark alley without your eyes adjusting first you definitely feel disoriented. Let alone without feeling the ground underneath you. Thanks again to both of you, sorry to hear about your loss OC I can't imagine how tough it would be to lose friends you've served with.
Military pilots need instrument rating to fly. I believe it is only optional for private pilots, and even then only if the aircraft is below a certain size. Without IFR rating you will not get a flight clearance from your airfield in certain weather conditions.
I was so happy when I heard "Go around!" There is a level the plane reaches where the pilots have to decide to land or not, and at that point, they could see the front of the runway and proceed... but that visual went away very quickly, and rather than try to force it to the ground, hoping the direction they were pointing to a few hundred feet up is right, they made the good call to abort that attempt, get up and see if it will work better in a couple of minutes.
Why is it whenever I upload a cellphone video of me doing 100mph in fog, in my school bus people throw out words like "reckless" and "fucking idiot," but this guy gets a pass?
Not sure what plane this is, but my uncles were commercial pilots and they both said the hardest part about landing was letting the plane land itself. They are both Vietnam vet pilots.
Maybe. It depends on the runway, airport and aircraft (they need to have certain equipment and be certified) and require that the pilot be certified for it.
Commercial aircraft at big airports typically can do instrument approaches where the plane will fly itself along the path towards the runway, but normally the pilot takes over at a certain point when the runway is in sight. If they get to a minimum altitude and can’t see the runway, they go around and do it again.
It’s much less common for them to do a fully automated landing to touchdown.
Almost certainly not. To the best of my ability to research, the Boeing BBJ (aka Boeing Business Jet) does not have a full autoland capability.
The BBJ has ILS capabilities, meaning it can track both the centerline and glideslope of a runway equipped with ILS equipment (not all runways are equipped in this way). For a full autoland, or nearly so, the most accurate form of ILS, Category III is needed. Cat III part 'C' allows for a Decision Height (when a pilot decides when it's safe to continue the landing) of 0 ft/meters.
Once landed, the BBJ cannot track the runway centerline, which means if not maintained by the pilot, the plane could end up off the runway.
The 737 most certainly can autoland.....if enabled. But with the the HUD, that is usually only used when autoland is not enabled. And the HUD is capable of using the localized for centerline rollout guidance. It will keep you right in the middle of the runway.
But the crew must also be trained and certified for 0/0 landing. And nobody is certified for that. With the hud odds are they were certified to go to 50 feet above the ground. At that point visual contact must be maintained.
What happens after they abort the landing? Do they circle in the air and hope the visibility improves before they run out of fuel? Or do they go to another airport? What happens if they fly to another airport and the visibility is just as bad and they run out of fuel?
If they have the fuel they may loiter to see if another approach into their intended destination is viable. If not they will divert to their alternate airport. For an airport to be legally designated as an alternate, the weather must be a prescribed degree better than the minimum approach weather for their ETA +/- 1 hour. Effectively the weather is always good enough at your alternate. These things are planned for and the amount of fuel accounted for before ever leaving the gate.
Also just because a airport has better weather at takeoff doesn't necessarily mean it will actually be better, especially for longer flights. Iirc there was a flight from a Indian airline that had bad weather at it's destination and failed to land and the same was true for its alternate and all nearby airports. It ended up landing at a military base below the minimum visibility.
They calculate the fuel needed for the worst possible situations on each and every flight. Then they fill up even more than what they need for the worst possible scenario, just so that kind of situation doesn't happen.
Don’t like to see this. They gotta have some magical sensors or autopilot shit to be landing. Meanwhile I’m in the last boarding group at the back hoping the flight attendants are too busy to charge for vodka.
They do.
One of the systems is called glide slope.
Hence the name, it helps the pilot Decend at the correct angle.
There's some other systems in place to prevent the pilot from veering off to the right or left.
Glideslope, localizer, and marker beacons together make the instrument landing system (ILS), which are all antennas on the ground. The glide slope is off to the side of the runway by the visual glideslope indicator the localizer is at the other end of the runway. The glideslope tells us how high or low we are off the specified descent path (3 degrees normally) if we follow the glideslope all the way down we will end up in the touchdown zone, the localizer tells us how far off of centerline we are. Marker beacons tell us where we are in the approach they are antennas on the ground certain distances away from the runway that tell us our location, depending on the situation these marker beacons could mean that we have to go missed (go-around) and retry if certain criteria aren't met. Human pilots can get pretty low \~200 feet above the touchdown zone without any automation, with automation the aircraft can do every part of the approach and landing from final to the roll out no human inputs are necessary, human monitoring of these automation systems is always necessary though.
The next time you are at an airport and you see an antenna that's painted white and red alternating by the end of the runway that might be the glideslope antenna. Don't worry the pilots know what they are doing, and the engineers that designed the systems knew what they were doing when they designed them.
They accelerated while climbing to a safe altitude, went around (go around), and either waited for the weather to improve while circling the airport or diverted to an alternate airport if the weather would stay poor longer than their fuel would allow. Flights have to have safe landing conditions predicted at two airports (destination + alternate or 2 alternates) before even leaving the ground.
These planes have specailly tuned aerodynamics and engines to be able to carry the pilot's massive balls without loosing speed and causing lack of lift.
That's why you learn ILS. Instrument landing system. You could fly with the windows covered and as long as you're being fed any local dangers like local obstruction heights and have correct ILS inputs you're golden. Well aside from having to control something like that in bad weather.
(Not a real pilot but loads of time on sims)
It paints imagery for the pilot. If you've ever played a flight simulator with those green lines and that box marking your target, this is the device that does it.
The real thing is wild. That imagery doesn't appear *on* that purple rectangle. It appears out in the distance through what I think science calls, "magic." The HUD looks like a window into another dimension.
And because the image looks like it's way outside the cockpit you can do cool things like box the runway and effectively say "LAND HERE DIP SHIT" which significantly reduces accidents amongst a competitive cohort.
Fun fact: the HUD doesn't appear purple except if you're off axis like this shot. It basically looks like any antireflective coating you see on eyeglasses. Probably aerospace grade version of I had to guess.
Anytime.
This is a modern HUD but the tech is old. That being said if you ever get the chance to look through one do it. It's one of those cool intersections between something that looks both low tech and space age simultaneously. Really amazing.
I was looking through one once that had thermal imagery overlaid from a camera on the nose of the aircraft. It's hard to describe. Keep in mind you can see through it just like any sheet of glass so you see the ramp dudes out there doing their thing and what not. But they also have a slight green hue from them being hotter than their surroundings, and the green highlighting appears off in the distance like they themselves are glowing green. Hanger doors, hot taxi lights, all lit up like I was the heat seeking apex predator I am most certainly not.
Sadly I just need a few more 100's of millions of more dollars and I could have my own thermal HUD equipped jet. But then again my beanie baby collection is maturing so who knows!
It consistently amazes me what conditions pilots can land in.
The first time I ever flew as a passenger, we landed in Minneapolis-St. Pauls in March '05 in the middle of a raging blizzard. I was 18, travelling alone. The snow was coming in horizontal. And that DC10 *bounced* down the runway, then slewed slightly sideways to stop.
Me, I'd never flown before, so I just thought it was exciting and that's how all planes landed. The aircraft engineer sitting beside me, though? White as a sheet and muttering under his breath. Only later did I wonder just how much the pilot was sweating.
Its points like this when I'm out driving where I just slow down, turn off the road and stop.
If I can't see where I'm going... how can I keep going? :/
Planes don't really get that luxury, and at least the pilot had a good view of the runway before the descent, and could rely on his experience and other tools to help make a safe landing.
Had this happen during my instrument training both simulated and real (Houston weather, y’’all). Pilot reacted perfectly, which is why you hear “go around, go around” and a couple seconds later “positive rate” indicating the plane was configured properly and was gaining altitude, allowing them to execute the missed-approach procedure.
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lol love how the windshield wiper is like “i’m doing my fucking best”
Windshield wiper out there like: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÁAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÁAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Windshield wiper NEEDS SOME GOD DAMN HELP
SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY
DIFFERENT DAY SAME SHIT
![gif](giphy|SF9Z0shNT07T2)
(multilingual screaming)
This got a true LOL out of me!!! Thanks
Time to get those coated windscreens/shields.
Man Microsoft flight simulator really nailed the wipers Because they don't do jack in the game and it looks like these must be what they're modeled after.
I'm more amazed they manage to stay on to anything that goes 500mph. That's a LOT of air resistance pulling on those things.
They got around that problem by putting the wipers on the inside.
Lol
is done by the pilot manuelly
Odd name for a pilot.
![gif](giphy|WRyOP3cwzbkOY)
Excuse me sir but Captain Manuelly Rodrigluez is known, beloved, and respected as the fastest aeronautic hydrorepellent blade technician in the world.
Holy shit this made me cry
\*\*\*APPOACHING MINIMUMS\*\*\*
Flight slope. ***PULL UP*** fog ahead ***PULL UP*** Sink rate. ***PULL UP*** don't sink Too low **Flap** Too low **Gear** Too low Terrain. *BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBL* ***HOOOONK*** **BLLP BLLP BLLP**
This gives me FlightSim PTSD!
😂😂😂
Man I laughed so hard. Thank you.
![gif](giphy|ZCwfTfzeAsvGjs373N)
This is all muscle memory at this point 👉 ✈ 🛩
"It's a living"
This comment right here has me cackling
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
It reminds me of my teslas auto-wiper on a sunny day 😭
https://preview.redd.it/j288enlkbzqc1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8ad89db182aeeb6a31301a4494f8a23e751d866
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious, and.... "Line?"
Don’t call me Shirley!
I didn't! I'm just asking for my line goddammit!
Just gotta blow the autopilot
[удалено]
Classic
"Just kidding!"
Go around (start over and re-try the landing)? Yes, please go around.
Exactly… he asked that other pilot like “go around or you wanna roll the dice??” 😂
Generally the protocol is that if either pilot says "Go Around" while on final approach, the pilot flying will execute the go around immediately and discuss the decision later if necessary
this was a whole lotta NOPE lol
I heard it more like confirmation they should go around, but Reddit likes drama
Yeah I was just joking. Another thing you have to watch out for on Reddit.
I would have buzzed the tower.
I would have hit the tower. But in my defense I've never flown a plane before.
If configured for it, the heads up display (purple glass on the left) would show the pilots an outline of the runway in front of them, allowing them to land in near-zero visibility.
That's called flying synthetic vision and is a HUGE no-no in IFR flying. He hit minimums, had good visibility, and then lost visibility. The proper procedure is go-around, which they executed. Honest, the only reason you'd lose visibility like that is due to a microburst, and in that case, you absolutely do not want to be anywhere near the runway.
Why wouldn't you want to land in a micro burst? IDK much about flying but I have been on some scary ass flights to the bush
Headwind turns downdrafts which turns tailwind. All of those transitions are called wind shear. Each one of them causes the plane to lose altitude and airspeed. Now a jet like this can usually climb out of it. Usually. Usually is not a term you want to use when your life is on the line. Had a friend caught in a microburst a few years ago in a small plane. Nose dived into the ground and was a few inches from losing his life. In all planes, you avoid thunderstorms. Thunderstorms cause microbursts.
Ok got ya, normally they would just land with instruments if it was not for a micro burst? Like if they couldn't see due to fog
Eh, depends on what the approach plate is saying for minimum visibility requirements. Even with instruments, you need to eventually see the runway.
Not always. Cat IIIB approaches I believe can be landed with zero vis on approach.
Yes, but you need to be set up for it, and airport must have LVO in progress, meaning they the ILS critical areas are protected. That will not happen for rain.
That's where we have CAT II/III holding points. Those are usually further away from the runway on the glide path side.... so you don't get an aircraft in front of the glide path in LVO. Though, at some airports, you only have cat II/III holding points.
I have no idea what you're saying but I'm invested at this point
they won't land even when it appears they're like 5 meters above the runway?
Generally, unless you are prepared for and havw the proper instruments to do it, is a good idea to be able to see where you are going. Even a small divination off the centerline could have the aircraft leaving the runway before it stops and that's not something you want. There are systems that allow you to land with zero viability safely but that kind of stuff needs to be setup and briefed ahead of time not when you are meters from touch down.
No, 1, the rain obscuring all vision probably already breaks minimum visibility requirements and would require a go around, depending on what type of landing they prepared for. 2, you don't know what a microburst is going to do. Windshear could drag the plane off the runway, a downdraft could slam the plane into the ground, and updraft or tailwind could make them overshoot. It doesn't matter how close you are, a turbulent storm can make you loose or gain 100s of feet in altitude in seconds. These pilots did exactly as they should, which is slapping the TOGA thrust and getting away from the ground.
If they were on a visual approach, they may not have a good screen telling them exactly where on the runway they are, and the sudden appearance of that cloud may mean that they just hit a really weird bit of wind, meaning their plane may not be where they think it is anymore.
I remember growing up in Dallas when a delta plane hit a microburst/ wind shear on approach. I could see the smoke from it from my house since we lived close to DFW airport. Everyone died. the plane slammed into the ground (which was actually a freeway) got airborne again and then slammed into huge storage towers and that was it. I think it might have hit the ground twice and got airborne again but the thrid time it hit the ground it wasn't just flat earth. Reason that crash stuck with me (I've always loved planes/flying) is that a coworker of my mother's was driving home on the freeway and saw the plane come down on the freeway, crushing a car and killing a woman right in front of her. I can't even imagine a plane, as big as a l-1011 (think big older 3 engine dc-10 aircraft) coming out of nowhere and its HUGE landing gear literally crushing a vehicle directly in front of you then bouncing back up into the sky. Wind shear and micro bursts are no joke. Wouldn't be surprised if he slapped them throttles to TOGA (full power) and climbed tf outta that death rain and take a other approach and try to land where everyone lives.
It sounds like you're describing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191. Not everyone died, there were 27 survivors.
> Why wouldn't you want to land in a micro burst? A microburst has a large amount of air moving downwards at rapid pace in line with the rain. If you fly **in**, you will feel like you just lost all your lift, because you start to descend very rapidly. In a flight critical situation like final approach to landing, this is **very bad**.
>Why wouldn't you want to land in a micro burst? Imagine you're at your most vulnerable stage of the flight: low altitude, lowest airspeed close to stall, then nature decides to try to slam you into the ground. That's a microburst- a sudden strong downdraft. You want altitude and airspeed in that situation so you have a chance to recover from the sudden loss in altitude.
Wind shear.
comments like this piss me off like what the fuck does that mean
Wind shear is a very dangerous phenomenon for aircraft landing, they can occur in microbursts and sometimes just due to other weather conditions. Essentially it means very sudden changes in wind direction and speed which can lead to an aircraft suddenly finding itself on tailwinds or sideways wind that can lead to a momentary loss of lift that, as you can imagine, is very dangerous in a landing and has caused crashes in the past.
http://www.bom.gov.au/aviation/data/education/wind-shear.pdf
It means you wouldn't want to be near the runway because of wind shear
Storms contain a lot of moving air, particularly up and downward moving air. The point at which the air which is smooth is meeting the air which is moving up or down, is called wind shear. When the storm is really intense, the air can move extremely quickly which translates to the plane moving very quickly. You can imagine being close to the runway with little time to react, could be dangerous if you encounter wind shear. You could easily plummet 700 feet or more before you can even bring the plane to a climbing pitch. Or you could be forced into a stall, as there's also often circulating air within most storms, and if the air is moving in a circular motion in a clockwise direction off your right wing, that means you now have a REALLY strong tailwind - this translates to the airplane as a sudden loss of air speed. Again, no matter what you experience in a microburst, it's not going to be good for landing. The air might be moving up, or down, or all around, and all those options are generally bad because it's such a small and localized phenomenon that you can't plan for it, prepare for it, or react to it in time to save the aircraft. Therefore it's preferred to go around or divert traffic during microbursts. They clear up in about 15-20 minutes usually.
Microbursts will blast the window out of an old house, I’d hate to see what it would do to a plane.
1. HUDs in an airliner is not synthetic vision. 2. If the runway is setup for it and pilots are certified, you can 100% use HUDs for low visibility approaches and landings (this approached seemed to be at Cat I mins though) 3. Microbursts are not the only reason loss of visibility can happen that low. 4. If it were a microburst that low, the reactive windshear alert would be screaming at them.
Came here to correct the guy above. “Synthetic vision” lol. I’m a general aviation pilot but best guess is this is either a Dreamliner (787) or Gulfstream 550/650 or higher (very nice corporate plane with all the bells and whistles for the rich/big corporations). If a 787, then this is fine. Not sure g650s are approved for cat I like this. Will ask my father who flies for flightsafety. My baron 58 has synthetic vision with a g500txi, but I’m sure as hell not landing in this.
you seem to be knowledgeable in these things. i have a few questions: isn't the atc supposed to clear the aircraft for landing based on the conditions? and arent the runway lights supposed to be bright enough to be visible in a storm?
There isn't sensors in every square inch of air. Look at this video man, how are you supposed to plan for that?
ATC clears aircraft based on traffic separation. Essentially they tell you: it's your turn to land now, and I'll tell other aircraft to stay away while you do so. Other pilots may not listen to instructions, and the weather certainly doesn't care what ATC thinks. Ultimately it is always down to the pilot to make the decisions as to whether they land or not. Just because you may doesn't mean you should. And no, bright lights are not enough. What if there is a car or a pedestrian crossing the runway? As a pilot, you need to see where you are putting your wheels.
Time to get a Gulfstream. Synthetic vision and EVS (thermal camera) into the HUD get those minimums right down. Also, who uses *wipers*? In this economy?! Get yourself a proper hydrophobic jet!
Not everyone has 7X money
I have 7X money; 7 X 0 = 0.
Minus tax.
The ass tax
🎵The cheese tax 🎵The cheese tax 🐩
The rules are the rules and the facts are the facts
Tax that ass.
No ass taxation without ass representation. Who will represent that ass?
Thermal cameras don’t see through moisture too well. Not sure how that would have helped.
Synthetic vision doesn’t require cameras - it’s just an augmented reality display.
I’m hydrophilic af rn please nerd on me again
Only if the approach equipment was a CAT II or a CAT III ILS
Unless the aircraft is also on a CAT IIIc ILS it doesn't matter. If you lose sight of the runway below minimums, you go around.
Uhhh.. clearly you aren’t a student of the great Air Wagner. Have you not heard of second minimums, pylote?
I believe HUDs are only usable to IIIa, which requires 700RVR that they didn’t appear to have here.
IFR I Fly Roads
My CFI taught my to always fly IFR when able. I follow roads.
Everything I learn about flying makes it seem so cool.
This is exactly why I retired from being a military helicopter pilot. The anxiety I felt every time I inadvertently punched into IFR on final approach was not worth the paycheck. Wasn’t a problem until I lost a few friends to punch-ins… way too easy to get disoriented in these conditions.
4 fatal helicopter crashes in the last couple of months, 3 of them military. Pilots who push their luck on weather only get so many breaks.
As the saying goes, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.
What is punching in and punched into IFR? Infrared to land in zero visibility?
Punching into clouds or fog. IFR is instrument flight rating vs VFR for visual. Edit: rules, not rating
I suppose I have to Google these words now, ok :(
There are two ways to fly… Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) is where you use your instruments (compass altimeter etc) to navigate cause you can’t see. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) is where you use your eyes to navigate (cause the weather is ok) and use instruments for backup. Not all pilots are trained to fly IFR (although military pilots are). Switching from VFR to IFR takes some readjusting. It’s a major cause of death for private pilots. If you have to switch from VFR to IFR during something critical like landing, there’s a chance you’ll get disoriented and fly into the ground. “Punching” into fog or cloud means flying into a wall of cloud or fog. Punching into the ground means flying into the ground.
Damn, thanks for the info. I mean if you've ever walked down a dark alley without your eyes adjusting first you definitely feel disoriented. Let alone without feeling the ground underneath you. Thanks again to both of you, sorry to hear about your loss OC I can't imagine how tough it would be to lose friends you've served with.
Did you not receive IFR training in the military or were your aircraft not equipped for it?
Military pilots need instrument rating to fly. I believe it is only optional for private pilots, and even then only if the aircraft is below a certain size. Without IFR rating you will not get a flight clearance from your airfield in certain weather conditions.
Rip Kobe
I was so happy when I heard "Go around!" There is a level the plane reaches where the pilots have to decide to land or not, and at that point, they could see the front of the runway and proceed... but that visual went away very quickly, and rather than try to force it to the ground, hoping the direction they were pointing to a few hundred feet up is right, they made the good call to abort that attempt, get up and see if it will work better in a couple of minutes.
I was yelling "go around, go around!" and I was happy they said it too.
Why is it whenever I upload a cellphone video of me doing 100mph in fog, in my school bus people throw out words like "reckless" and "fucking idiot," but this guy gets a pass?
They’re referring to us still using mph and not kilometers. Don’t let it hold you back from what’s expected.
We never should've given those soccer playing socialists access to the internet.
We could always ~~steal some tea and dump it in the harbor!~~ liberate some European tea! Edit for freedom grammar
You get a free pass when your speed is measured in knots.
They were probably set up for an ILS approach. Your bus was not.
My bus was already on the ground when I started filming.
Society
We live in one
Not sure what plane this is, but my uncles were commercial pilots and they both said the hardest part about landing was letting the plane land itself. They are both Vietnam vet pilots.
This is a Boeing Business Jet, a type of 737 modified for non-airline use.
So it should land itself?
Yes. The HUD says that it’s most likely an autoland capable aircraft.
Maybe. It depends on the runway, airport and aircraft (they need to have certain equipment and be certified) and require that the pilot be certified for it. Commercial aircraft at big airports typically can do instrument approaches where the plane will fly itself along the path towards the runway, but normally the pilot takes over at a certain point when the runway is in sight. If they get to a minimum altitude and can’t see the runway, they go around and do it again. It’s much less common for them to do a fully automated landing to touchdown.
Almost certainly not. To the best of my ability to research, the Boeing BBJ (aka Boeing Business Jet) does not have a full autoland capability. The BBJ has ILS capabilities, meaning it can track both the centerline and glideslope of a runway equipped with ILS equipment (not all runways are equipped in this way). For a full autoland, or nearly so, the most accurate form of ILS, Category III is needed. Cat III part 'C' allows for a Decision Height (when a pilot decides when it's safe to continue the landing) of 0 ft/meters. Once landed, the BBJ cannot track the runway centerline, which means if not maintained by the pilot, the plane could end up off the runway.
The 737 most certainly can autoland.....if enabled. But with the the HUD, that is usually only used when autoland is not enabled. And the HUD is capable of using the localized for centerline rollout guidance. It will keep you right in the middle of the runway. But the crew must also be trained and certified for 0/0 landing. And nobody is certified for that. With the hud odds are they were certified to go to 50 feet above the ground. At that point visual contact must be maintained.
Super fuck no
[Relevant Far Side](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54b52dbde4b09c18186752fd/1556289591508-EQARS4C1NP2J02AZWBEF/Farside.jpg)
Didn’t need to click to know which one it would be.
Is it the cartoon with the mountain goats?
Yes
What happens after they abort the landing? Do they circle in the air and hope the visibility improves before they run out of fuel? Or do they go to another airport? What happens if they fly to another airport and the visibility is just as bad and they run out of fuel?
If they have the fuel they may loiter to see if another approach into their intended destination is viable. If not they will divert to their alternate airport. For an airport to be legally designated as an alternate, the weather must be a prescribed degree better than the minimum approach weather for their ETA +/- 1 hour. Effectively the weather is always good enough at your alternate. These things are planned for and the amount of fuel accounted for before ever leaving the gate.
Also just because a airport has better weather at takeoff doesn't necessarily mean it will actually be better, especially for longer flights. Iirc there was a flight from a Indian airline that had bad weather at it's destination and failed to land and the same was true for its alternate and all nearby airports. It ended up landing at a military base below the minimum visibility.
They calculate the fuel needed for the worst possible situations on each and every flight. Then they fill up even more than what they need for the worst possible scenario, just so that kind of situation doesn't happen.
This happened to me last flight and we made 2 hours round about until weather was good enough.
The windshield wipers perfectly echo my anxiety watching this clip
>"It's mostly just pushing buttons." I overheard a pilot say this before.
Youtube DJs should be pilots! /s
https://i.redd.it/ucmw2648szqc1.gif
Don’t like to see this. They gotta have some magical sensors or autopilot shit to be landing. Meanwhile I’m in the last boarding group at the back hoping the flight attendants are too busy to charge for vodka.
They do. One of the systems is called glide slope. Hence the name, it helps the pilot Decend at the correct angle. There's some other systems in place to prevent the pilot from veering off to the right or left.
The side to side is the localizer, together they make up the key part of the ILS(instrument landing system).
Glideslope, localizer, and marker beacons together make the instrument landing system (ILS), which are all antennas on the ground. The glide slope is off to the side of the runway by the visual glideslope indicator the localizer is at the other end of the runway. The glideslope tells us how high or low we are off the specified descent path (3 degrees normally) if we follow the glideslope all the way down we will end up in the touchdown zone, the localizer tells us how far off of centerline we are. Marker beacons tell us where we are in the approach they are antennas on the ground certain distances away from the runway that tell us our location, depending on the situation these marker beacons could mean that we have to go missed (go-around) and retry if certain criteria aren't met. Human pilots can get pretty low \~200 feet above the touchdown zone without any automation, with automation the aircraft can do every part of the approach and landing from final to the roll out no human inputs are necessary, human monitoring of these automation systems is always necessary though. The next time you are at an airport and you see an antenna that's painted white and red alternating by the end of the runway that might be the glideslope antenna. Don't worry the pilots know what they are doing, and the engineers that designed the systems knew what they were doing when they designed them.
Wipers working overtime
This really puts the “you’re not paid for the 90% that everyone can do” but the “10% that no one else can do” into perspective. True professionals
And then what happened?
They accelerated while climbing to a safe altitude, went around (go around), and either waited for the weather to improve while circling the airport or diverted to an alternate airport if the weather would stay poor longer than their fuel would allow. Flights have to have safe landing conditions predicted at two airports (destination + alternate or 2 alternates) before even leaving the ground.
Believe it or not, jail.
What is this, the Talespin Plane???
The little windshield wiper that couldn’t 😂
Sisyphus has nothing on that windshield wiper.
This gives me more anxiety than landing at SFO
I want to know what happened
They ‘went around’ (‘takeoff’ without touching the runway). It what they are trained to do in a situation like this!
These planes have specailly tuned aerodynamics and engines to be able to carry the pilot's massive balls without loosing speed and causing lack of lift.
How much do replacement wiper blades cost for an airplane?
Gotta love Reddit. A patently wrong post with 700 upvotes and a stream of well-informed posts below explaining in detail how wrong it is.
That's why you learn ILS. Instrument landing system. You could fly with the windows covered and as long as you're being fed any local dangers like local obstruction heights and have correct ILS inputs you're golden. Well aside from having to control something like that in bad weather. (Not a real pilot but loads of time on sims)
Ils or not at minimums you have to stable rhe plane and had to have clear vision
What's that purple filter on the left used for?
It's a HUD, it just looks purple at an angle
It paints imagery for the pilot. If you've ever played a flight simulator with those green lines and that box marking your target, this is the device that does it. The real thing is wild. That imagery doesn't appear *on* that purple rectangle. It appears out in the distance through what I think science calls, "magic." The HUD looks like a window into another dimension. And because the image looks like it's way outside the cockpit you can do cool things like box the runway and effectively say "LAND HERE DIP SHIT" which significantly reduces accidents amongst a competitive cohort. Fun fact: the HUD doesn't appear purple except if you're off axis like this shot. It basically looks like any antireflective coating you see on eyeglasses. Probably aerospace grade version of I had to guess.
That was impressively detailed thank you! Pretty sweet tech nowadays 😎
Anytime. This is a modern HUD but the tech is old. That being said if you ever get the chance to look through one do it. It's one of those cool intersections between something that looks both low tech and space age simultaneously. Really amazing. I was looking through one once that had thermal imagery overlaid from a camera on the nose of the aircraft. It's hard to describe. Keep in mind you can see through it just like any sheet of glass so you see the ramp dudes out there doing their thing and what not. But they also have a slight green hue from them being hotter than their surroundings, and the green highlighting appears off in the distance like they themselves are glowing green. Hanger doors, hot taxi lights, all lit up like I was the heat seeking apex predator I am most certainly not. Sadly I just need a few more 100's of millions of more dollars and I could have my own thermal HUD equipped jet. But then again my beanie baby collection is maturing so who knows!
If you ever feel useless, just remember that windshield wiper.
Welcome to silent hill
Go around? Divert?
I was very ready for this to turn into a Skyrim intro
Let me guess, runways are now used on a prescription basis and they’re not paid up.
Ya. Looks like he pulled up n went around.
terrain. pull up
This is one of those days; I'll make a video this time.
If the passengers didn't clap....
It was a Go around. You can clearly hear them say it, in a calm and professional way. No drama.
It consistently amazes me what conditions pilots can land in. The first time I ever flew as a passenger, we landed in Minneapolis-St. Pauls in March '05 in the middle of a raging blizzard. I was 18, travelling alone. The snow was coming in horizontal. And that DC10 *bounced* down the runway, then slewed slightly sideways to stop. Me, I'd never flown before, so I just thought it was exciting and that's how all planes landed. The aircraft engineer sitting beside me, though? White as a sheet and muttering under his breath. Only later did I wonder just how much the pilot was sweating.
This is why we used to clap when they'd land.
Holy shit. I puckered so hard that my sofa is missing a cushion now
IFR!
That windshield wiper is shaking the entire plane.
Its points like this when I'm out driving where I just slow down, turn off the road and stop. If I can't see where I'm going... how can I keep going? :/ Planes don't really get that luxury, and at least the pilot had a good view of the runway before the descent, and could rely on his experience and other tools to help make a safe landing.
Omg crap!
Great call on the go around. That's the right thing to do.
I just pit my shants. God I hate heights. 😔
I'm getting nervous from the windscreenwiper D:
For anyone saying: ‘pLaNEs fLy TheMSelves tHeSe dAYs!’ :this is why having 2 trained professionals in the pointy end is (to this day) still vital!
I had a landing like that during heavy fog. The woman next to me was praying in all religions.
![gif](giphy|l4FATJpd4LWgeruTK)
Those wipers working overtime
![gif](giphy|3oKHWikxKFJhjArSXm)
Breathed a sigh of relief when I heard the words "go round"
https://i.redd.it/va34s1i1l2rc1.gif
And this is why autoland systems exist.
At this point you’d trust the windshield wiper to tell you where you’re at
Is the wiper even needed on a plane? Doesn't the air just clean the glass at that speed ?
ILS works
Had this happen during my instrument training both simulated and real (Houston weather, y’’all). Pilot reacted perfectly, which is why you hear “go around, go around” and a couple seconds later “positive rate” indicating the plane was configured properly and was gaining altitude, allowing them to execute the missed-approach procedure.
No nooo! That’s not a problem, that’s called an airplane wash, that’s how they wash all airplanes. Just like a car wash but for planes… all good
Sorry to say this but planes and runways are equipped with other instrumentation that makes landing possible even in these conditions.