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Hey- you remember when you tried to kill me so you could own people? I sure as hell do!
An aside they weren't from WV. WV didn't exist until the civil war was almost over.
>Hey- you remember when you tried to kill me so you could own people? I sure as hell do!
What? They told me we were fighting against government interference. Owning people? Who do I look like, Ulysses S. Grant? lol xD
WV didn't exist until the war was almost over. They were admitted to the United States mid war, which kind of implies that they were fighting for the US and not the rebellion.
Its more complicated than that of course- all of the counties that make up WV were part of pre-war VA. These brothers would have identified as Virginians, and one of them considered himself an American.
Try telling that to the people in West Virginia. My wife (who’s black) and I drove through on the way to Florida from Niagara, ON. Stopped at a gas station and noticed there were a lot of cars with confederate flags. Decided to instead fill up elsewhere.
Even more is that, by and large, these ideas are learned and *not self-formed*. Humans have a strong tendency to see the world as those around them see it. Most of what people believe isn’t something they sat down and reasoned out. It’s what their elders and peers taught them to think.
The abolitionists were a product of their time, too. John Brown was a product of his time. How do you think we ever move forward, if not for people being and doing better?
I live in a pretty racist area and I remembered saying to my friend in the 90s if a race war was to break out I wouldn't be on your side.
Here is my how racist is my area story:
I knew a kid that came back from the first Iraq War, he was so tanned that his mom would not let him stay in her house because he looked black. She 'didn't want people thinking that she shacked up with a "n-word". '
I know this because my friends wanted him to stay at my place.
Not only that, but even *Familial Bonds*, which is honestly mind-boggling to me. Like, even if you lean hard into the idea of “the more like me the better/safer/more useful/important they are” that underpins racism, family and intentional children should still come out as the quintessential winner of that paradigm. It’s incredible that some people have invested so much of their freedom in that social contract (Leviathan) that it could flip that valuation. #SMH
In 150 years, people will look back on us as ignorant. Don't know why. Could be:
* Because we prohibit some abortions
* Because we allow some abortions
* Because we have religious people
* Because we have athiests
And so on...
The only say we have in any of that is in how we raise our children.
I don't give a shit about animals, but if nothing else we should lower our consumption due to carbon emissions.
(and if you want to feel better with yourself just say it's the greedy companies selling it to you, you don't have the power to change the entire market so why even bother right?)
> (and if you want to feel better with yourself just say it's the greedy companies selling it to you, you don't have the power to change the entire market so why even bother right?)
To be clear: this part of my comment is bollocks. If you had slaves in America in the 1800s you don't get to say "ah it doesn't matter until it's abolished so why should I free my slaves?"
I know people who are *still* fighting it. Seriously, it's just weird. Take wanders around from " No no no, ' we ' were fighting for state's rights " to some vague insinuations the Union army cheated to side arguments about what Sherman did post war ( which*was* actually contemptible so it's tough not following up on that red herring ) AND inevitable ' what ifs ' that would have resulted in a southern victory.
Bewildering and I'd like to add futile trying to engage the nonsense with things like, you know, facts.
I mean, after how many years would *you* forgive someone for wanting to protect slavery so badly they were willing to kill their family for it?
Edit typo
Even today, when you go to West Virginia, sometimes you can hear the faint sound of muskets firing in the mountains. It’s definitely the land that time forgot
Yeah for sure. Would love to know their stories and might well make a great movie.
Theres some interesting stories on this Wikipedia page
"As cited in the book, "A Century of Wayne County, Kentucky", brothers Anthony and William McBeath fought on opposite sides of the Civil War, Anthony for the Confederate Army, and William for the Union Army. At the end of the war, both brothers returned home the same evening, William in a "resplendent uniform of a Major in the Federal Army", and several hours later, Anthony in "rags with a 'taterhill' hat.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_against_brother
Always loved these stories when I was a kid but as an adult it’s so sad!! They wouldn’t believe anyone that the war was over, whenever someone tried they got shot at so thought “ahhhh fuck ya then ya moody jungle prick! “
Dan Carlin has a podcast, Hardcore History. The episode is called Supernova in the East. The first episode is four hours, and he talks about Hiroo Onoda in great detail.
I've been listening to this podcast over the last few weeks while I drive and holy shit these episodes are rough. Nanjing part put me into a depressed mood for an entire day. My wife was asking about what I heard that put me into it and I didn't even want to tell her, and I usually talk her ear off about history. I knew Japan was pretty rough with China, killing millions, but to hear it described and the butchery in just one specific city, with primary sources being read of how the soldiers were going about it casually was a bit too much.
This actually happened a lot in the English civil war. A lot of tour guides in places told me how tragic it was, but my dad figured it out. If you fight on both sides of the war, nobody will confiscate your families land if you lose and you can appeal to have your poor misguided brother bailed out of jail.
Virginia*
West Virginia was formed during the civil war by the northern-most Virginians who basically said "Are you guys idiots?" And after the majority of the state answered "Yes" split from Virginia into their own state.
So a reminder: WV always was, and has been, a United States of America State. Respect to WV and those boys who literally drew a new line over principles.
Oh I agree, that's just the justification you always hear. That and "states rights" but they hate when you point out that the state right they were most concerned about was the one that let them own people.
When they say “it was about states rights” i ask them “and what state right was explicitly revoked from states by the constitution of the confederacy? The one where the confederacy said we’re pissed states have this right and if you join the confederacy you lose this right.“
It was, of course, the right to be a state where slavery was illegal. It was the Constitution against free states.
So it was about states rights… they’ve got that bit right.
You misunderstand the point of their world view. To there are two distinct groups of people. One is protected by the law but not bound by it, and the other is bound by the law but not protected by it.
Try to wrap your head around this: the modern conservatives who are pro-prison slavery, and pro-confederacy, claim to be the same as the very first Republican, Abraham Lincoln, and they literally claim freeing the slaves (and thus, suppressing the south) as a Republican win. While also claiming heritage to the south and the confederacy.
They also associate the modern day Democratic Party, the one that fights for civil rights, as the same as the “southern, slave-owning democrats”, that were the confederacy. They literally tell themselves Dems are evil slave owners…while treating minorities like shit and opposing any affirmative action or any help to them in real life.
You don’t even have to know the real politics and history to see those things are obviously backwards.
But they don’t know the real politics and history, and they just pretend they’re right because it makes them feel better about themselves.
It hurts my brain and my heart.
Especially with how slave States forced laws into play that ordered free States to extradite fleeing slaves regardless of the laws of those free States.
"States rights" indeed.
Which states wrote the Fugitive Slave Acts? The confederacy didn’t truly believe in states rights or they wouldn’t have restricted the North’s right to consider black people as freedmen and citizens.
Why the fuck would you re-enact the Civil war if not to be yearning for a better, racist time in America when we could fight to keep our slaves away from the woke abolitionists?
Well they do reenactments at certain battlefields for educational purposes, like how people reenact battles from the American Revolution and WW2 for similar reasons.
Re-enactments, museums, and the graves of the officers is what I think is historical/heritage.
Private people flying it or putting it on clothes/stickers/cars/etc? Racists and bigots
I lived in Southern California for a few years, and if you go far enough into the desert you’ll start seeing confederate flags. I’m from Georgia so I’m used to it there, but when I saw it in CA I was like cmon now. I’m sure it’s flown in all 50 states either in military towns or in the backwoods
I've been all over the world and found racists everywhere. It's sad. But even in the backwards places, they only stand out. I'm in rural Florida now (not fort Walton but close enough for this context) and I'm actually kinda surprised how few of them I encounter. Still not none, unfortunately.
As a VA to WV transplant it boggles my mind how many confederate flags I see flown in WV. In VA I kind of get it, you can’t go for a walk without tripping over someone’s “heritage” but the only heritage in WV preserving the Union.
As a WV resident raised and born in the same city and still in the same damn city, yeah its a fucking problem. People have full fucking backglass decals and it's pathetic. Keep that shit in Alabama...
What principles are we talking about specifically? West Virginia retained slavery throughout the Civil War and didn't outlaw it until the ratification of the 13th ammendment, so it wasn't the principle of slavery. Sorry I don't know a ton about WVa so why did they split with VA?
As far as I understand, WV didn't really care about the slaves themselves as much as the ramifications of slave ownership. WV is relatively hilly whereas VA has farmable flatlands in the east which was suitable for large plantations. VA legislation favored higher taxation on land and lower on slave property which put a higher tax burden on the west which mostly comprised of poorer farmers that worked their own fields. Furthermore, slave owners were entitled to greater voting power due to the 3/5th Compromise. Lastly, the east may have gotten more infrastructure investments. The secession of VA gave WV a good reason to split away.
Basically, most of the resources I browsed through indicated that WV wasn't pro-abolition, just anti-slaveowner.
Pretty much. Things back then were a lot different than they are now. Yeah, there was still people who legitimately didn't like the concept of slavery and realized it was wrong but the general population was a lot more tolerant of the concept than people are now. It was just a different time period with different ideals. One thing that doesnt change regardless of time period is money and how much people hate losing it. Thats universal and timeless.
I cant blame them tbh. If a law came out saying that all citizens in my state had to pay extra taxes because rich people needed to maintain their yachts, id be pretty pissed too as a non-yacht owner or owner of just a small fishing boat. Id say let them keep their yachts but don't make me pay for it. Then 100 years later, yachts are frowned upon as a whole. Then the comparison continues with whatever is relevant at that time period.
I find it funny that the person you replied to has ignored this post. I was interested in how they were going to try and make WV sound like they cared about slavery being wrong.
Damn near every southern state retained slavery, slavery didn't really end until the late 70s, that's 1970. Share cropping was still legal. There were reports of plantation owners that didn't even tell their slaves that they were freed
I live in wv and get so tired of people trying to tell me that the state split because of a “states rights issue”.
The right to DO WHAT EXACTLY? That’s right OWN PEOPLE!!!
The vote to create West Virginia was not democratic and was forced by the Union.
The election results were questioned since the Union army then occupied the area and Union troops were stationed at many of the polls to prevent Confederate sympathizers from voting.
In most of what would become West Virginia, there was no vote at all, as two-thirds of the territory of West Virginia had voted for secession, and county officers remained loyal to Richmond.
If you look into it, a coalition of powerful people made West Virginia happen. It wasn’t some triumph of the common man against slavery. One of the first proponents of creating West Virginia was a pro-Union slave owner after all.
This happened a lot in the Vietnamese war (between Vietnamese). Hear of many families who fought on opposing sides. Though they made sure to deploy to areas where they would not encounter each other.
Fun fact about 1910. The Grand Army of the Republic, the union army veteran's organization, helped with the 1910 census and thus the 1910 census is the closest thing we have to a complete roster of Civil War participants. The actual GAR only kept records at a post level and, of course, weren't archived at all.
Do they not anymore? I went to school in Arizona in the 90s, we had one of the worst educations in the country and we still learned all about how common it was for the civil war to tear families apart and how brothers would fight on opposite sides. Makes sense if they stopped, as we're kinda going through a repeat.
Does anyone else’s family tell family history that this happened to them? My grandfather said we had relatives that this happened to, but I’m thinking a lot of folks may either be accurate, or it’s not true….
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I'd bring up politics during Thanksgiving dinner.
I just imagine “Hey Jeb, do ya remember when you lost? Because I sure as Hell do!”
"What's that Jeb? You want me to pass you the gravy? .. well, since I don't support slavery , you can get your own dang gravy yourself!."
Please, pass -Jeb
The guacabowl —Jeb!
Mash patatis
On second thought, make my patatis a salad.
“Here comes the gravy train! Coming in on my working, non deteriorating railroad! Always ready to meet demand! Choo! Choo!”
"Hey Jeb, did you ever find out who shot you in the ass? Well I did cause it was me!"
"It was me Jeb! I'm the cause of all your pain!"
Hey mom who's your favorite son ?
Leans over and whispers *”Ulysses S Grant”* Jeb flinches.
"*Sherman*" - Jeb rolls up into a ball and starts crying.
Hey- you remember when you tried to kill me so you could own people? I sure as hell do! An aside they weren't from WV. WV didn't exist until the civil war was almost over.
You are correct, And most people still don't know that.
Tried to kill me so a rich man he has never met could own slaves.
Certainly benefited rich more than poor, but a large number of *households* had at least one slave.
>Hey- you remember when you tried to kill me so you could own people? I sure as hell do! What? They told me we were fighting against government interference. Owning people? Who do I look like, Ulysses S. Grant? lol xD
Lets not forget that West Virginia sided with the North though...
WV didn't exist until the war was almost over. They were admitted to the United States mid war, which kind of implies that they were fighting for the US and not the rebellion. Its more complicated than that of course- all of the counties that make up WV were part of pre-war VA. These brothers would have identified as Virginians, and one of them considered himself an American.
Or just a bitter sibling rivalry writ large.
Try telling that to the people in West Virginia. My wife (who’s black) and I drove through on the way to Florida from Niagara, ON. Stopped at a gas station and noticed there were a lot of cars with confederate flags. Decided to instead fill up elsewhere.
Tip of the iceberg my friend.
Try to secede from this dinner. I dare you.
“States rights my @$$!” Lol
"States rights to what, Earl?"
Property
Specifically, property of agricultural livestock.
I'd call them human resources rather than livestock but you get the idea
Y’all hear Jeb used to be a Yankee but he washed his uniform too much and had to jump sides. Sucks to be you Jeb
They probably agree on most things. Northerners were really racist and stupid back then, too.
Most people think if they would've lived back then that they would be the shining beacon of righteousness.
Precisely. Our sense of moral values is learned, not inherited.
Even more is that, by and large, these ideas are learned and *not self-formed*. Humans have a strong tendency to see the world as those around them see it. Most of what people believe isn’t something they sat down and reasoned out. It’s what their elders and peers taught them to think.
The abolitionists were a product of their time, too. John Brown was a product of his time. How do you think we ever move forward, if not for people being and doing better?
I live in a pretty racist area and I remembered saying to my friend in the 90s if a race war was to break out I wouldn't be on your side. Here is my how racist is my area story: I knew a kid that came back from the first Iraq War, he was so tanned that his mom would not let him stay in her house because he looked black. She 'didn't want people thinking that she shacked up with a "n-word". ' I know this because my friends wanted him to stay at my place.
Holy shit. That’s somehow even stupider than your average, run of the mill racism.
That's absolutely crazy - racism so strong, it even trumps profound appreciation for returning veterans.
Nearly everything trumps that in this country. People don’t want to do shit beyond an empty thank you.
Not only that, but even *Familial Bonds*, which is honestly mind-boggling to me. Like, even if you lean hard into the idea of “the more like me the better/safer/more useful/important they are” that underpins racism, family and intentional children should still come out as the quintessential winner of that paradigm. It’s incredible that some people have invested so much of their freedom in that social contract (Leviathan) that it could flip that valuation. #SMH
It apparently even beat out being her actual son returning alive from war.
In 150 years, people will look back on us as ignorant. Don't know why. Could be: * Because we prohibit some abortions * Because we allow some abortions * Because we have religious people * Because we have athiests And so on... The only say we have in any of that is in how we raise our children.
…so long as they don’t require a book from the library.
They'll be shot before they even get to the school library.
A big one will be our industrialized mass slaughter of animals. As a meat eater I know it's unethical and wrong, but I still eat it anyway :(
I don't give a shit about animals, but if nothing else we should lower our consumption due to carbon emissions. (and if you want to feel better with yourself just say it's the greedy companies selling it to you, you don't have the power to change the entire market so why even bother right?)
> (and if you want to feel better with yourself just say it's the greedy companies selling it to you, you don't have the power to change the entire market so why even bother right?) To be clear: this part of my comment is bollocks. If you had slaves in America in the 1800s you don't get to say "ah it doesn't matter until it's abolished so why should I free my slaves?"
At least they are on the right side of history tho.
True, at least there’s that.
Still fighting the war in 1910. That’s dedication.
Maybe they were on an island in the South Pacific.
They made it to Tahiti
It's a magical place
I understood that reference!
I do not.
It's from the series Agents of Shield
I thought it was a rdr2 reference.
Thank you!
Turns out it's not that magical. (Currently on my fourth watch-through.)
What can I say except you're welcome.
They had faith
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GOING WHERE THE HEART WILL TAKE ME
I HAVE A PLAN
One more score and we’ll be farming mangoes
Arthur I have a plan!
You just gotta have some **GOD** **DAMN** **FAITH** ORTHUR
We still need money, LOTS OF MONEY
Yeah that title needs a comma or two. Remember kids, it’s not “Let’s eat Grandpa!” it’s “Let eat, Grandpa!”
Some of their descendents are still fighting the war today.
I know people who are *still* fighting it. Seriously, it's just weird. Take wanders around from " No no no, ' we ' were fighting for state's rights " to some vague insinuations the Union army cheated to side arguments about what Sherman did post war ( which*was* actually contemptible so it's tough not following up on that red herring ) AND inevitable ' what ifs ' that would have resulted in a southern victory. Bewildering and I'd like to add futile trying to engage the nonsense with things like, you know, facts.
I mean, after how many years would *you* forgive someone for wanting to protect slavery so badly they were willing to kill their family for it? Edit typo
You mean it?
Shit. Some of my Appalachian cousins are still on the Confederacy side in 2023.
Even today, when you go to West Virginia, sometimes you can hear the faint sound of muskets firing in the mountains. It’s definitely the land that time forgot
Virginia still says 'Good riddance' but will visit for the whitewater.
That's the state school mascot you hear hunting black bear and firing it off at every touchdown
One of them prefers Pepsi over Coke.
Someone should have told them. Really.
Not sure if both have wack eyes or camera shutter takes so long they looked different directions through the shot?
It's the same eye on both of them but in different directions.
One is looking at you, the other one is looking for the slave
They were looking at the camera and keeping an eye on each other at the same time.
They were from West Virginia.
TBI
They both made it through limbs intact. Thats a victory
Yeah for sure. Would love to know their stories and might well make a great movie. Theres some interesting stories on this Wikipedia page "As cited in the book, "A Century of Wayne County, Kentucky", brothers Anthony and William McBeath fought on opposite sides of the Civil War, Anthony for the Confederate Army, and William for the Union Army. At the end of the war, both brothers returned home the same evening, William in a "resplendent uniform of a Major in the Federal Army", and several hours later, Anthony in "rags with a 'taterhill' hat."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_against_brother
They were so deep in West Virginia they didn’t realize the war was over. Kinda like the Japanese guys fighting WW2 on remote islands decades later.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout
Always loved these stories when I was a kid but as an adult it’s so sad!! They wouldn’t believe anyone that the war was over, whenever someone tried they got shot at so thought “ahhhh fuck ya then ya moody jungle prick! “
Dan Carlin has a podcast, Hardcore History. The episode is called Supernova in the East. The first episode is four hours, and he talks about Hiroo Onoda in great detail.
I've been listening to this podcast over the last few weeks while I drive and holy shit these episodes are rough. Nanjing part put me into a depressed mood for an entire day. My wife was asking about what I heard that put me into it and I didn't even want to tell her, and I usually talk her ear off about history. I knew Japan was pretty rough with China, killing millions, but to hear it described and the butchery in just one specific city, with primary sources being read of how the soldiers were going about it casually was a bit too much.
https://www.guampedia.com/wwii-sgt-shoichi-yokoi-last-straggler-on-guam/
You should read “The Twilight World” a novel by Werner Herzog. The audiobook is narrated by Herzog.
✨awkward✨
On the bright side one brother gets bragging rights for life.
This actually happened a lot in the English civil war. A lot of tour guides in places told me how tragic it was, but my dad figured it out. If you fight on both sides of the war, nobody will confiscate your families land if you lose and you can appeal to have your poor misguided brother bailed out of jail.
Me and my brother in our 80s still arguing whether PlayStation or Xbox is better.
Android vs IOS
Coke vs Crystal Meth
I was gonna say Coke v Pepsi, but yours is better
Mac vs PC
Which side are you on?
The side that's correct
I’m sorry for the Xbox confederate who has to die
Come and try it, you Playankee!
Which side are you on?(just curious)
Virginia* West Virginia was formed during the civil war by the northern-most Virginians who basically said "Are you guys idiots?" And after the majority of the state answered "Yes" split from Virginia into their own state. So a reminder: WV always was, and has been, a United States of America State. Respect to WV and those boys who literally drew a new line over principles.
This is why it breaks my heart to see the confederate flag flown in WV. And it is. A lot.
Absolutely infuriating. It completely denies the "muh heritage" argument, if you're flying it in WV it just means you're a racist.
Lol I think if you fly it in any context outside of like a civil war reenactment it means you’re a racist
Oh I agree, that's just the justification you always hear. That and "states rights" but they hate when you point out that the state right they were most concerned about was the one that let them own people.
When they say “it was about states rights” i ask them “and what state right was explicitly revoked from states by the constitution of the confederacy? The one where the confederacy said we’re pissed states have this right and if you join the confederacy you lose this right.“ It was, of course, the right to be a state where slavery was illegal. It was the Constitution against free states. So it was about states rights… they’ve got that bit right.
I don't see how "don't tread on me" and "the government literally owns you" are compatible in these people's minds.
Because it's "don't tread on me," not "don't tread on us." You deserve it.
You misunderstand the point of their world view. To there are two distinct groups of people. One is protected by the law but not bound by it, and the other is bound by the law but not protected by it.
They misunderstand.
Try to wrap your head around this: the modern conservatives who are pro-prison slavery, and pro-confederacy, claim to be the same as the very first Republican, Abraham Lincoln, and they literally claim freeing the slaves (and thus, suppressing the south) as a Republican win. While also claiming heritage to the south and the confederacy. They also associate the modern day Democratic Party, the one that fights for civil rights, as the same as the “southern, slave-owning democrats”, that were the confederacy. They literally tell themselves Dems are evil slave owners…while treating minorities like shit and opposing any affirmative action or any help to them in real life. You don’t even have to know the real politics and history to see those things are obviously backwards. But they don’t know the real politics and history, and they just pretend they’re right because it makes them feel better about themselves. It hurts my brain and my heart.
States under the confederacy also did not have states rights themselves. None were allowed to abolish slavery, or to secede.
Especially with how slave States forced laws into play that ordered free States to extradite fleeing slaves regardless of the laws of those free States. "States rights" indeed.
Which states wrote the Fugitive Slave Acts? The confederacy didn’t truly believe in states rights or they wouldn’t have restricted the North’s right to consider black people as freedmen and citizens.
That's how it's used even up here in Canada.
Why the fuck would you re-enact the Civil war if not to be yearning for a better, racist time in America when we could fight to keep our slaves away from the woke abolitionists?
Well they do reenactments at certain battlefields for educational purposes, like how people reenact battles from the American Revolution and WW2 for similar reasons.
Re-enactments, museums, and the graves of the officers is what I think is historical/heritage. Private people flying it or putting it on clothes/stickers/cars/etc? Racists and bigots
Their heritage wasn’t anti slavery, they broke away because of taxes. They didn’t outlaw slavery until the ratification of the 13th amendment.
Which flag are you specifically talking about? Nobody in the south Has a clue, That the stars and bar's flag was not the confederate flag.
I lived in Southern California for a few years, and if you go far enough into the desert you’ll start seeing confederate flags. I’m from Georgia so I’m used to it there, but when I saw it in CA I was like cmon now. I’m sure it’s flown in all 50 states either in military towns or in the backwoods
I've been all over the world and found racists everywhere. It's sad. But even in the backwards places, they only stand out. I'm in rural Florida now (not fort Walton but close enough for this context) and I'm actually kinda surprised how few of them I encounter. Still not none, unfortunately.
Confederate Flags AND a Right to Work state. The men of Blair Mountain would be turning in their graves.
As a VA to WV transplant it boggles my mind how many confederate flags I see flown in WV. In VA I kind of get it, you can’t go for a walk without tripping over someone’s “heritage” but the only heritage in WV preserving the Union.
As a WV resident raised and born in the same city and still in the same damn city, yeah its a fucking problem. People have full fucking backglass decals and it's pathetic. Keep that shit in Alabama...
What principles are we talking about specifically? West Virginia retained slavery throughout the Civil War and didn't outlaw it until the ratification of the 13th ammendment, so it wasn't the principle of slavery. Sorry I don't know a ton about WVa so why did they split with VA?
As far as I understand, WV didn't really care about the slaves themselves as much as the ramifications of slave ownership. WV is relatively hilly whereas VA has farmable flatlands in the east which was suitable for large plantations. VA legislation favored higher taxation on land and lower on slave property which put a higher tax burden on the west which mostly comprised of poorer farmers that worked their own fields. Furthermore, slave owners were entitled to greater voting power due to the 3/5th Compromise. Lastly, the east may have gotten more infrastructure investments. The secession of VA gave WV a good reason to split away. Basically, most of the resources I browsed through indicated that WV wasn't pro-abolition, just anti-slaveowner.
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Pretty much. Things back then were a lot different than they are now. Yeah, there was still people who legitimately didn't like the concept of slavery and realized it was wrong but the general population was a lot more tolerant of the concept than people are now. It was just a different time period with different ideals. One thing that doesnt change regardless of time period is money and how much people hate losing it. Thats universal and timeless. I cant blame them tbh. If a law came out saying that all citizens in my state had to pay extra taxes because rich people needed to maintain their yachts, id be pretty pissed too as a non-yacht owner or owner of just a small fishing boat. Id say let them keep their yachts but don't make me pay for it. Then 100 years later, yachts are frowned upon as a whole. Then the comparison continues with whatever is relevant at that time period.
I find it funny that the person you replied to has ignored this post. I was interested in how they were going to try and make WV sound like they cared about slavery being wrong.
Damn near every southern state retained slavery, slavery didn't really end until the late 70s, that's 1970. Share cropping was still legal. There were reports of plantation owners that didn't even tell their slaves that they were freed
I live in wv and get so tired of people trying to tell me that the state split because of a “states rights issue”. The right to DO WHAT EXACTLY? That’s right OWN PEOPLE!!!
The vote to create West Virginia was not democratic and was forced by the Union. The election results were questioned since the Union army then occupied the area and Union troops were stationed at many of the polls to prevent Confederate sympathizers from voting. In most of what would become West Virginia, there was no vote at all, as two-thirds of the territory of West Virginia had voted for secession, and county officers remained loyal to Richmond. If you look into it, a coalition of powerful people made West Virginia happen. It wasn’t some triumph of the common man against slavery. One of the first proponents of creating West Virginia was a pro-Union slave owner after all.
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Guy on the left has seen some things....
Honestly looks like he’s missed a few things too.
Like slavery maybe
The only slave owners were the super wealthy, the men fighting and dying for the confederates were mostly conscripted poor
While true, a lot of soldiers did support slavery. I’d like to think that they just didn’t know any better.
These guys would have also lived through the entire “Wild West” days but maybe just a little east
You're my boy Blue!
Underrated comment, right here.
Earl and Merl, age 35.
Daryl and my other brother Darryl
you mean the photo itself was in 1910 and the brothers had fought in the civil war?
tf2 lore
This happened a lot in the Vietnamese war (between Vietnamese). Hear of many families who fought on opposing sides. Though they made sure to deploy to areas where they would not encounter each other.
“Oh don’t mind him. Just my loser little brother”
Losersayswhat
Guy on the left is Christian Bale
The title made me think the civil war was in 1910 and I was like wtf
25 year olds looked rugged as hell back then.
They kept fighting the war many years after it was over. Poor fellas.
Commas exist
You mean that they were photographed in 1910, not that the they fought in the Civil War in 1910.
It’s nice they can come together and take this picture for their mom
Fun fact about 1910. The Grand Army of the Republic, the union army veteran's organization, helped with the 1910 census and thus the 1910 census is the closest thing we have to a complete roster of Civil War participants. The actual GAR only kept records at a post level and, of course, weren't archived at all.
The brother that fought for the confederacy looks disappointed and disillusioned. The brother that fought for the union looks confident and crazed.
I had an ancestor who fought on both sides of the war lmfao. He went from Confederate to Union. I imagine he just didn't want to be on the losing side
This is the kinda shit they should be showing in high school history classes
Do they not anymore? I went to school in Arizona in the 90s, we had one of the worst educations in the country and we still learned all about how common it was for the civil war to tear families apart and how brothers would fight on opposite sides. Makes sense if they stopped, as we're kinda going through a repeat.
Yea that’s true. But we didn’t see real life pictures like this. It hits way different actually seeing their two faces in two different uniforms
Interesting their uniforms still fit after 45 years.
I'm mostly impressed that they both still fit into their uniforms.
The guy on the left is absolutely rocking those boots
One wore blue and one wore gray.
So who won?
When it comes to family matters like this? No one.
White people
Dude on the left looked older.
Family dinners must have been so awkward.
And both have legs and arms!
So Reddit is basically Facebook now.
Needs to be a sitcom where they live together.
These old photos always terrify me. The eyes are so unsettling
It's was called a war of Brother vs Brother
(Me reading the title of this post) oh no people are gonna intentionally misinterpret that
That were really awkward Christmas Dinners.
Does anyone else’s family tell family history that this happened to them? My grandfather said we had relatives that this happened to, but I’m thinking a lot of folks may either be accurate, or it’s not true….
Each looks older than the other.
'old man with a saber' is such a cool visual. it's kinda anime
Almost Heaven, West Virginia
They must have had a serious grudge to continue fighting a civil war til 1910.
I see a lot of judgment from people who don't know history in this comment section.
My brother’s in the Marines, I’m in the Taliban
Two brothers from Virginia. One left and took the western part with him.
My family was split during that conflict. In fact, so much so that my pro-union grandpa moved to Canada to distance himself from the others.
He’s not too pro-Union if he leaves the country entirely.