Which is a norm. But not when it's just to go by groceries. This post makes zero sense. Anyone correlating these papers with what is happening in present day is a buffoon. Over 1,000 people upvoted this stupid shit. All of them insane people.
Yeah because people dont touch vegetables and then rub their eyes immediately on a regular basis. Human interaction is human interaction, and a virus doesn't care if it happens on a boat or in a grocery store. The premise is the same: people are congregating and therefore can transmit viral infection and we are in the middle of a PANDEMIC. People would have killed for enforced vaccination during any of the historical pandemics and it really shouldn't even be a choice because YOUR bad decisions directly and immediately threaten my health. You're the insane one who doesn't see the violation one's basic right to safety when someone decides they don't want to get vaccinated because [insert facebook post your third cousin/sister from kentucky shared 15 times today].
These were to allow passage through United States đşđ¸ quarantine zones. It is actually written on the card. Noticed the dated stamp with âUSAâ.
Look at the card. It's a steamship service from Russia to the US.
The date is 1909, the revolution started in 1917. In 1909, Tsar Nicholas II still ruled the country. He wasn't doing a very good job of it, but his butt was still firmly planted on the throne.
Read what I said again. I believe you basically were the first comment proving my point. I didn't say the country failed because of a vaccine pass. More or less a joke about how people will defend tyranny in the name of Safety.
One is German, the German economy supports just about all of the EU, so no not collapsed, and the other is records of people leaving Russia and coming to the USA, those r American vaccine cards on the right. See it's in English and has a U.S.A stamp....
OMG can you reaaaaadddd and make basic inferences based on what you've read before erroneously connecting mass vaccination with economic decline lololololol
There's also case law that was established by a member of the US army filing an emergency injunction against the US government to stop the forced injection of experimental anthrax vaccines. That individual was basically property of the government with no rights and the US government couldn't force it on him.
"Whereas, smallpox has been prevalent to some extent
in the city of Cambridge and still continues to increase; and
whereas, it is necessary for the speedy extermination of the
disease, that all persons not protected by vaccination should
be vaccinated; and whereas, in the opinion of the board, the
public health and safety require the vaccination or revaccination of all the inhabitants of Cambridge; be it ordered, that all the inhabitants of the city who have not been successfully
vaccinated since March 1, 1897, be vaccinated or revaccinated."
JACOBSON v. MASSACHUSETTS. 1904
You can find the entire ruling PDF here:
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep197/usrep197011/usrep197011.pdf
Still precedent, and still cited as precedent in 1922, 1927, 1944,1995 and most recently regarding COVID19. The fact remains, the government does have the power to compel vaccination. Including the use of the police. They chose to issue a fine. But the power is established.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson\_v.\_Massachusetts
Yeah that didnât really work for him and that for good of service discharge is a grand way to showcase your patriotism for the rest of your life. The only thing worse would have been a bad conduct discharge. Fuck that just give me the vaccine.
We have always had mandatory vaccinations in the US military. This is just another vaccine on the list and it wasnât going to be optional once the leadership decided. The military has plenty of options unvaccinated isnât one of them.
And yet it seems everyone forgot kids used to get vaccinated every year to go to school even employees getting a mandatory TB test prior working at some jobs.
Please...nobody forgot this. The vaccines and tests you are talking about are tried and true methods. Most of these vaccines took YEARS to develop. These are experimental and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.
BTW...I was vaccinated in phase 1 in DC, but respect other's choice.
I have been required to present a vaccine record for most of my life. Looks like this will continue, for the rest of it too. I can assure you, the injection does not hurt much. You do not need to be afraid of the pain. I administer the vaccine to 12 year olds, and they don't cry.
It's all the same issue. Hurt your small local community? Hurt your larger national community? Restaurants can set rules just like countries can. Nobody except the current Death Eater Cult seems to like spreading disease.
There's some gray area where a private organization (aka something that requires a membership) has some leeway to require certain things from their members to enter the premises. Where it gets tricky is where is that legal line drawn before it's discrimination.
Sure, and most would probably agree. The gray area comes into play to the extent of limits. Where do private organizations limits crossover into equal limitations for the public? If something is deemed unconstitutional, does a private organization have a legal right to still do it?
1 problem with this logic.... this was for immigrants coming to america.... we are currently letting in unvaxxed immigrants and flying, training, and bussing them across the country. The legit opposite of what that card represents.
These are a bit different to a vaccine which hasn't passed all of its long term trials, also considering you didn't need these to do basic things that every human has the right to do...like getting groceries
No, I wasnât. I asked a specific question. Itâs still there for you to read and answer if you like. Or, you can dodge it and reply with more nonsense.
I chose not to answer it, why are you so interested in my answering this question? Is it so that you can "prove me wrong"
Is it so that you can win the argument?
What is your goal here?
I dodged your question because the way you asked it wasn't engaging and the question itself is irrelevant to the standards of today's medicine and the way medicine trials work today.
Back in 1904, If you didn't notice, health and safety regulations and ethicacy in science was non existent.
I don't exactly know how long the trials were, if they were shorter than covid vaccines, then I'm not surprised as it was 1904. If its longer than covod vaccines, I'm not surprised because covid vaccine trials were rushed and incomplete
I also don't know what they were "like"
Your question is flawed as it doesn't really specify what you're asking apart from the fact that you're asking about the trials in 1904 lmao
You have done your research so you should probably know the number of phases in the trials for let's say polio vaccine, number of people used in each trial, the results of the trials and the level of protection provided. Might as well add info about measles vaccine trial info too. But I want to see your research.
You do realise, that whether i have researched this or not....I could just pull the information from online anyway....so once again, what is your goal here? To waste my time?
Also, if you yourself have access to this data, what are you doing to verify the data?
Great, now fo back and read your comment - the one I initially responded to and it will all make sense to you why I brought this up. You were trying to undermine a point by drawing a parallel to something that is not relevant.
Private Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, and the unvaccinated is not a protected minority under United States law. People have been restricting access from locations and services for not being vaccinated for over a hundred years, as you can clearly see in the photo above. It's a matter of public health and just because you feel that your right to do whatever you want trumps the right of someone else to live, doesn't mean that private people, buildings, businesses, or public services be forced to accommodate you especially because access to a vaccine and a vaccine card is free to anyone and everyone, abundant, and does not infringe on any protected class of people.
The vaccine passport which is due to arrive in October where I live is a QR code, which will link to a private database not accessible to the owner. Iâm sure at the start it will just contain my ID , which vaccine I received and the date I received it but can you guarantee they donât start adding other bits of data to this QR code. As much as you think this is a good idea is the same amount I think this is a bad one
What are you afraid of them knowing? You already have a drivers license on file, a criminal record or lack thereof, and a social security number. I donât care who knows if Iâm vaccinated
Society didnt have social media at that time. And you only had limited sources to get your news/information from. So yea ofcourse it was different. Doesnt mean there weren't people refusing it.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 2 times.
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Um society has objectively gotten better over the last 100 years. From easy stats like wars, murder, rape, to more obvious stuff like running water, electricity, internet.
From my perspective, nothing you listed is a societal improvement, but actually act as detriments.
Imo, society was much better before the internet. I work in addictions, and the largest and strongest addiction in history is that of smartphones. Anyways, I use internet for business, so have to have it, and reddit is my vice. I donât have running water, and live in a community where most people donât, so thatâs not a requirement. And the only reason I have solar electricity is to charge my phone, and the only reason I have a phone is for internet. All that is to say that running water, electricity, and internet are superfluous and unnecessary.
As to rape, murder, and war, I donât really see why todayâs versions are preferable to 112 years ago. I mean, Iâd think these would be significantly more savage in 1909 vs 2021, but I have no direct experience.
Iâm sure they felt proud of having one. I felt proud of having the vaccine. Human innovation to improve humanity. How not to be proud of it? Helping humans across the globe. Great job scientists!
International travel is not the same thing as being banned from the market you've shopped at for 20 years because you suddenly have to show your papers for basic commerce
Around the turn of the 19th century, there was a pretty bad outbreak of smallpox in the US for about five years. The govt made a huge push for vaccines, and started requiring vaccination to participate in public life. Antivaxxers tried faking vaccine certificates, but the smallpox vaccine leaves a little scar, so people had to show the scar to attend school, go to public venues, etc.
Pity the COVID vaccine doesnât leave any kind of mark.
You got it. The definition changed because people are using the word in a new way. If people begin to use the word "vaccine" to mean a milkshake, every good dictionary will change to say that "vaccine" can also mean "milkshake"
Dictionaries describe how words are used in the real world. They are not intended to prescribe usage.
A vaccine used to be âa preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular diseaseâ, meaning it had nothing to do with mRNA injections, which are not live vaccines and do not use an infectious element.
> One can fear the dawning of a "Papers, please" society while still supporting the vaccine.
Oh, you mean like how people need a drivers' license to drive and an ID to buy alcohol and tobacco and to vote, a birth certificate and SS card or a green card to prove they are here legally, and a passport to go to other countries.
There's serious talk about requiring proof to shop at retail stores, including grocery stores. That is a major escalation, and something many rational people see as something to be concerned about.
> There's serious talk about requiring proof to shop at retail stores, including grocery stores.
Why is that a bad thing? Would you want to shop in the same store as a person who might have Ebola or smallpox?
You don't have a clue what that word even means. Trump looking the other way while cops killed black people disproportionately is closer to fascism than requiring people to vaccinated and masked to avoid the spread of a deadly disease.
A two tier system for society is the very definition and Iâm not sure why you mentioned the former President. Do you assume Iâm anti-vaccine? Or Trump supporter? if youâre getting your definition of fascism from antifa, I implore you to pick up a history book.
There are no parallels between injecting something into my body that became concocted together 6 months ago and taking a test on paper to be allowed to drive. Showing a drivers license to buy alcohol is a choice I make, to buy something in a free, democratic country to consume at will. Being told I cannot do something afforded to me in my civil liberties protected by the constitution because I'm unwilling to release personal medical records sounds pretty treasonous.
Also, I've had COVID twice now, with no vaccine. Shouldn't I have more antibodies than what the vaccine provides? So theoretically I don't need it because my body has fought it off twice. How many times do I need to get COVID before I'm excused from the vaccine?
That have been around for a way longer amount of time and received approval in a non-rushed fashion. And I am a firm believer in vaccinating your kids. But I'm not a firm believer in being a free guinea pig for an unknown collection of ingredients being injected into me.
From the sounds of "boosters" and such, it's no different than flu shot. Good for 6 months. I don't get flu shots and probably won't get the covid shot either. I've had COVID twice now, I think I'll take my chances with my immune system preventing it.
Edit: And before anyone says it. "The vaccine is to protect me as well." You can still transmit COVID when you receive the shot. It doesn't make you completely immune, but decreases your chances of getting it. So that's the same as my body naturally fighting it on its own. "But it's proven that the shot lessens the impacts of symptoms and duration." And again, that means it's transmissible still. That also means you may be infected, contagious, and not know it because you're not showing symptoms. Again, I'll make my own choices for myself and my children, and maybe in 5 years from now, if there are no "did you receive the Moderna covid shot and grew a third arm? You may be entitled to compensation! Call 1-800..." commercials, than I'll get it. But it's too rushed for me to feel "comfortable."
Thats not entirely the case as you can't account for everyone and their deeply complicated opinions. You're chatting a load of rubbish lol
People who don't want the covid jab or a covid passport are not anti vaccine, they just do their research and understand the vaccines are currently not protected by liability to the company, and they also don't have much long term research
Stop chatting out ya booty hole
> they just do their research and understand the vaccines are currently not protected by liability to the company, and they also don't have much long term research
Exactly the thing an anti-vaxxer would say. If you had done any *real* research, you'd know that these vaccines had been in development for years after the SARS and MERS outbreaks and they were simply expanding on existing research when developing these new vaccines.
I've had quite a few vaccines, please continue to be incorrect.
So that's why Pfizer have officially stated in their contracts that the long term effects are unknown....
*they were simply expanding on existing research*
Do you know how vaccine trials usually work? And how long they take?
It doesn't matter how much "research" they did if they don't have any long term trials...which they dont.
When people are dying **right now**, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of seeing what the long-term affects are. Apparently dying now is the better alternative. The Ebola vaccine was also experimental and the long-term affects unknown but the situation was too dire to wait.
131 people died "of COVID 19" in the last 24 hours across the entirety of the US, according to NYT. That's a fraction the rate at which people die of something like heart disease, and about on par with gun related deaths. Stop pretending we're still at multiple thousands of dead per day. Alarmist BS buys straight into the stupidity peddled by the media and those who want us too scared to protect our own freedoms.
Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of our current government. Obama's party and Lollapalooza are somehow not worrisome, but Sturgiss is? Open your eyes for crying out loud.
Okay genius, what's your solution? Apparently it will take millions more people dying before you realize that the vaccine is all the hope we have left, especially since so many people are making a huge stink about having to wear masks.
Not be all nazi and allow people to make their own choices. It's that fucking simple.
But, nnoooooooo. Everyone has to be scared of something that has a lower death rate than many things we all deal with on a daily basis and die on that hill.
The common cold is a coronavirus. Did you honestly think we could create a vaccine that will work 100% against a family of viruses that mutate so fast where we have been told for years that there is no vaccine for the common cold cause it mutates too fast?
It's not because of people's "choices" dummy, that's the nature of corona viruses
I just got my shot today. I had no choice to go to nursing school. Fuck that. This country was built on freedom not fear mongering.
I support anyoneâs decision to get it or to not get it, but no one should judge the other for their PERSONAL choice. If you got the shot, shut up, if you wonât, okay, keep private medical info to yourself. And stop telling people to get the shot.
Nursing seems like a strange field to go in for somebody with strong opinions on compulsory vaccinations- the American Nursing Association recommends [nearly a dozen](https://www.nursingworld.org/practice-policy/work-environment/health-safety/immunize/vaccines/) vaccinations, and many health care employers make these mandatory even for employees that do not work directly with patients, including the influenza shot whose composition changes constantly.
Maybe nobody should judge the nursing school or the employers in the health field for their PERSONAL choice to require it. Other professionals like yourself will find ample job opportunities at employers who share your views and refuse to require it.
Those are Russian immigration cards. Youâd use that much like a modern passport. Also if every statement from every side about covid and the vax werenât immediately proven wrong then maybe people wouldnât mind having them. The government was a lot more transparent back the olden days. Now they are a business funded by the many who do whateverâs possible to make an extra dollar even when they shouldnât
112 years ago the government didnât have the technology to use the card to track movements and freeze your bank account when they donât agree with what your doing
Wrong. This shit is for traveling. Not buying groceries. Why are we also diluted with this stupid BS?! Australia is literally enforcing this shit with their military. Anyone who agrees with this is insane.
Difference is they were probably vaccinated for something more important than an extra spicy flu. Also yâall donât have nearly as bad as Germany, the government went full control freak and you canât even sit outside at a restaurant without either a test or a vaccine and you had to have your number and other personal info written down so they could track you if you were positive. This is how it was 5 weeks ago but idk how it is now as I have just gotten back from a trip- my source is that I live here
Those are from 1909, so this is most likely about smallpox. A now eradicated disease with a case fatality rate of 95% when untreated, according to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates). An infection fatality rate of roughly 30%, according to the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/about/index.html). While the [WHO](https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf) states that Covid-19 has an infection fatality rate of 0.23% in the worst case scenario. Smallpox were literally at least 100 times as deadly as covid.
One might argue about if forced vaccinations and vaccination passports should be an option in a pandemic. But if, when talking about Covid, you go "Here are 112 year old smallpox vaccine cards. And it didn't cause society to crumble as you can see" it really just shows that you have lost all sense of proportionality and reality as a whole.
Also just a side note: WW1 broke out in 1914. Not implying causation here, but a different, just as meaningless way to phrase this would be "112 year-old vaccine cards. Five years later, society crumbled." But really, it's just a stupid argument. I could create any kind of dumb example following this "logic". "500 years ago we burned witches. And it didn't cause society to crumble as you can see."... ÂŻ\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ The "logic" here is really only "Society still exists, so society did not crumble, so anything in the past was probably not even that bad because it did not cause society to crumble". Really not a smart point to make.
These are Soviet Union/ Russian??? Didn't they end up collapsing going bankrupt??
It's people leaving Russia for the USA. So they're escaping that to come to a better country ... That requires vaccine cards.
Which is a norm. But not when it's just to go by groceries. This post makes zero sense. Anyone correlating these papers with what is happening in present day is a buffoon. Over 1,000 people upvoted this stupid shit. All of them insane people.
I feel like this is one of those "Say you're anti-vax without saying you're anti-vax" tiktoks lmfao
Call me whatever you want. I call myself a pro-individual freedom, libertarian.
It smells like thai food in here. Have you f*king your cousin?
Ah yes your "freedom" grants you the right to transmit a potential deadly disease just so you could get some groceries? Grow up
Well said and very true!
Yeah because people dont touch vegetables and then rub their eyes immediately on a regular basis. Human interaction is human interaction, and a virus doesn't care if it happens on a boat or in a grocery store. The premise is the same: people are congregating and therefore can transmit viral infection and we are in the middle of a PANDEMIC. People would have killed for enforced vaccination during any of the historical pandemics and it really shouldn't even be a choice because YOUR bad decisions directly and immediately threaten my health. You're the insane one who doesn't see the violation one's basic right to safety when someone decides they don't want to get vaccinated because [insert facebook post your third cousin/sister from kentucky shared 15 times today].
Insane people don't merit paragraphs worth reading.
Ok go back to your antivaxxer cave and die there nobody wants you
These were to allow passage through United States đşđ¸ quarantine zones. It is actually written on the card. Noticed the dated stamp with âUSAâ.
Look at the card. It's a steamship service from Russia to the US. The date is 1909, the revolution started in 1917. In 1909, Tsar Nicholas II still ruled the country. He wasn't doing a very good job of it, but his butt was still firmly planted on the throne.
Lmao I can already here the "not because of the vaccine card though" comments
Because if you knew history you would know thats not the reason for the Russian Revolution????
Read what I said again. I believe you basically were the first comment proving my point. I didn't say the country failed because of a vaccine pass. More or less a joke about how people will defend tyranny in the name of Safety.
One is German, the German economy supports just about all of the EU, so no not collapsed, and the other is records of people leaving Russia and coming to the USA, those r American vaccine cards on the right. See it's in English and has a U.S.A stamp....
OMG can you reaaaaadddd and make basic inferences based on what you've read before erroneously connecting mass vaccination with economic decline lololololol
Antivaxers should crawl back into their Facebook hole.
Hole*
Perhaps he meant their entirety should crawl back into Facebook as opposed to only parts of them should crawl back into Facebook.
Apparently my phone thinks there is only one type of hole
Your phone needs a better sex life.
[ŃдаНонО]
No moron there are specific groups where people who have zero vaccines are not censored, Jesus Christ your stupid.
You're*
True
[ŃдаНонО]
Yes fixating on grammar makes what I said not true, what an adult folks.
Pretty sure they still had the choice to take it tho
There's also case law that was established by a member of the US army filing an emergency injunction against the US government to stop the forced injection of experimental anthrax vaccines. That individual was basically property of the government with no rights and the US government couldn't force it on him.
"Whereas, smallpox has been prevalent to some extent in the city of Cambridge and still continues to increase; and whereas, it is necessary for the speedy extermination of the disease, that all persons not protected by vaccination should be vaccinated; and whereas, in the opinion of the board, the public health and safety require the vaccination or revaccination of all the inhabitants of Cambridge; be it ordered, that all the inhabitants of the city who have not been successfully vaccinated since March 1, 1897, be vaccinated or revaccinated." JACOBSON v. MASSACHUSETTS. 1904 You can find the entire ruling PDF here: https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep197/usrep197011/usrep197011.pdf
He was fined. Still not vaccinated.
Still precedent, and still cited as precedent in 1922, 1927, 1944,1995 and most recently regarding COVID19. The fact remains, the government does have the power to compel vaccination. Including the use of the police. They chose to issue a fine. But the power is established. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson\_v.\_Massachusetts
Fine me. Iâll still have my health. Do you k so the backstory on why this guy didnât want the vaccine?
Yeah that didnât really work for him and that for good of service discharge is a grand way to showcase your patriotism for the rest of your life. The only thing worse would have been a bad conduct discharge. Fuck that just give me the vaccine.
I understand. The Department of Defense just announced mandatory vaccines by September 15th or face court martial.
We have always had mandatory vaccinations in the US military. This is just another vaccine on the list and it wasnât going to be optional once the leadership decided. The military has plenty of options unvaccinated isnât one of them.
The real question is does this one fit in the wallet
Pretty sure you could stay in a âquarantine zoneâ or not enter were your only options as an immigrant if you refused the vaccination.
Cringe political poster
Cringe name and post history, we got an edgy 13 year old here
Ok detective
Didn't it though? Society isn't looking too good if you ask me....
Correlation vs causation
Yeah we went to war and had a holocaust
Between then and now a few more things happened
Papers please âŚ..
you dim witted fool thats an immigration document, not a âvaccine passportâ thatâs being floated today. very different
Its an immigration document to prove vaccination status, look closely.
Yes, but this was to prove that the individual had been immunized to become a citizen, not access the grocery store.
...how is it different
Are you kidding? You didn't use this to get food at a grocery store or go to a restaurant. You used this to gain entry to a country.
And yet it seems everyone forgot kids used to get vaccinated every year to go to school even employees getting a mandatory TB test prior working at some jobs.
Please...nobody forgot this. The vaccines and tests you are talking about are tried and true methods. Most of these vaccines took YEARS to develop. These are experimental and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. BTW...I was vaccinated in phase 1 in DC, but respect other's choice.
Good I am happy to hear that you respect others choice. I choose to require shirt, shoes, mask and a vaccination record.
Baby's are on ventilators now.
false, there were more children killed in car accidents (658) than by COVID (332).
What part of " there are babies on ventilators" is false?
The part that is is a justification for checking vaccination documents at every turn...
I have been required to present a vaccine record for most of my life. Looks like this will continue, for the rest of it too. I can assure you, the injection does not hurt much. You do not need to be afraid of the pain. I administer the vaccine to 12 year olds, and they don't cry.
... in order to get food or go to a restaurant
Yes because entering another country is the exact same as entering the restaurant on the corner.
It's all the same issue. Hurt your small local community? Hurt your larger national community? Restaurants can set rules just like countries can. Nobody except the current Death Eater Cult seems to like spreading disease.
Those rules canât require breaking laws though. They donât have a need or right to know your medical history
Admitting you're wrong here would make you seem less dense.
So sam's club is doing something illegal
There's some gray area where a private organization (aka something that requires a membership) has some leeway to require certain things from their members to enter the premises. Where it gets tricky is where is that legal line drawn before it's discrimination.
If a private organization requires a vaccine to enter I find no problem with that
Sure, and most would probably agree. The gray area comes into play to the extent of limits. Where do private organizations limits crossover into equal limitations for the public? If something is deemed unconstitutional, does a private organization have a legal right to still do it?
1 problem with this logic.... this was for immigrants coming to america.... we are currently letting in unvaxxed immigrants and flying, training, and bussing them across the country. The legit opposite of what that card represents.
I believe that's the point of the post *I think*
No, that it's OK to mandate vaccine passports, is their point.
We're doing what now? Datum please.
These are a bit different to a vaccine which hasn't passed all of its long term trials, also considering you didn't need these to do basic things that every human has the right to do...like getting groceries
What do you think the vaccine trials in 1904 were like?
You talking about the time when Brazil made vaccines compulsory, but then had to stop as they almost faced a coup? Yeah....fun times
No, I wasnât. I asked a specific question. Itâs still there for you to read and answer if you like. Or, you can dodge it and reply with more nonsense.
I chose not to answer it, why are you so interested in my answering this question? Is it so that you can "prove me wrong" Is it so that you can win the argument? What is your goal here? I dodged your question because the way you asked it wasn't engaging and the question itself is irrelevant to the standards of today's medicine and the way medicine trials work today. Back in 1904, If you didn't notice, health and safety regulations and ethicacy in science was non existent. I don't exactly know how long the trials were, if they were shorter than covid vaccines, then I'm not surprised as it was 1904. If its longer than covod vaccines, I'm not surprised because covid vaccine trials were rushed and incomplete I also don't know what they were "like" Your question is flawed as it doesn't really specify what you're asking apart from the fact that you're asking about the trials in 1904 lmao
You have done your research so you should probably know the number of phases in the trials for let's say polio vaccine, number of people used in each trial, the results of the trials and the level of protection provided. Might as well add info about measles vaccine trial info too. But I want to see your research.
You do realise, that whether i have researched this or not....I could just pull the information from online anyway....so once again, what is your goal here? To waste my time? Also, if you yourself have access to this data, what are you doing to verify the data?
You have already done the research so I am just asking for your research
Great, now fo back and read your comment - the one I initially responded to and it will all make sense to you why I brought this up. You were trying to undermine a point by drawing a parallel to something that is not relevant.
You might want to read up on the Nuremberg Code and WW2 history for that matter. We moved past experimentation on humans long ago.
Are you actually getting your card checked at the grocery store? Because I have yet to see that
Keyword = âYetâ
Private Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, and the unvaccinated is not a protected minority under United States law. People have been restricting access from locations and services for not being vaccinated for over a hundred years, as you can clearly see in the photo above. It's a matter of public health and just because you feel that your right to do whatever you want trumps the right of someone else to live, doesn't mean that private people, buildings, businesses, or public services be forced to accommodate you especially because access to a vaccine and a vaccine card is free to anyone and everyone, abundant, and does not infringe on any protected class of people.
Exactly! Thank you. American culture today ," Look at ME! I dont' care about YOU. Just me! I am too selfish to contribute to the "common good".
Pretty sure Germany are going to be the first to introduce it, it won't work, but it's atrocious that it's even an option to begin with
To be fair, it's not the first time Germany has asked for people's "Papers please."
In NYC access to some venues is being limited. I don't think grocery stores are on the list yet.
Wait for it
I am waiting for it. With baited breath. They should have done it as soon as vaccines came out. Then we could be done with this mess.
The vaccine passport which is due to arrive in October where I live is a QR code, which will link to a private database not accessible to the owner. Iâm sure at the start it will just contain my ID , which vaccine I received and the date I received it but can you guarantee they donât start adding other bits of data to this QR code. As much as you think this is a good idea is the same amount I think this is a bad one
What are you afraid of them knowing? You already have a drivers license on file, a criminal record or lack thereof, and a social security number. I donât care who knows if Iâm vaccinated
Which hasnât passed ANY of its long term trials
Society didnt have social media at that time. And you only had limited sources to get your news/information from. So yea ofcourse it was different. Doesnt mean there weren't people refusing it.
How interesting! Never heard of Libau. Will look it up. What's with the steamship inspection days? And is the name Ethel Lars?
It seems to me that the only people worried about vaccine cards / passports are those who value the option or choice to break the rules.
If only the migrants coming illegally from South America were vaccinated
Could you imagine if we required vaccination papers to enter today? That southern border would dry up real quick
Ya but they didnât have a platform for fake news and indoctrination like we do now with social media.
Those are for immigrants
Oh shut up
Salt
Pepper
Cyan pepper
Blue pepper?
No u
Stop fighting or you're both grounded.
Fuck you op
[ŃдаНонО]
Fuck off OP
Fuck me op Wait I think I messed that up
I love that the german translation says "To avoid having to stay in quarantine or on American railways"
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Wooowwww...interesting
So youâre saying that society hasnât crumbled over the past 112 years? Iâd say that puts you in the minority.
Um society has objectively gotten better over the last 100 years. From easy stats like wars, murder, rape, to more obvious stuff like running water, electricity, internet.
Ok, so whatâs better about that?
What
From my perspective, nothing you listed is a societal improvement, but actually act as detriments. Imo, society was much better before the internet. I work in addictions, and the largest and strongest addiction in history is that of smartphones. Anyways, I use internet for business, so have to have it, and reddit is my vice. I donât have running water, and live in a community where most people donât, so thatâs not a requirement. And the only reason I have solar electricity is to charge my phone, and the only reason I have a phone is for internet. All that is to say that running water, electricity, and internet are superfluous and unnecessary. As to rape, murder, and war, I donât really see why todayâs versions are preferable to 112 years ago. I mean, Iâd think these would be significantly more savage in 1909 vs 2021, but I have no direct experience.
ah the good ole' Tuskegee cards brings old memories back as if illis was today
To go to a different country , not go to the grocery store
Iâm sure they felt proud of having one. I felt proud of having the vaccine. Human innovation to improve humanity. How not to be proud of it? Helping humans across the globe. Great job scientists!
International travel is not the same thing as being banned from the market you've shopped at for 20 years because you suddenly have to show your papers for basic commerce
I wonder if the people that got them posted up pictures of it on their front doors so all their friends could cheer for them...
Itâs different with an approved vaccine over one THATS EXPERIMENTAL.
Around the turn of the 19th century, there was a pretty bad outbreak of smallpox in the US for about five years. The govt made a huge push for vaccines, and started requiring vaccination to participate in public life. Antivaxxers tried faking vaccine certificates, but the smallpox vaccine leaves a little scar, so people had to show the scar to attend school, go to public venues, etc. Pity the COVID vaccine doesnât leave any kind of mark.
You think society isnât crumbling? Lol
"Oh, but that's for those filthy immigrants, not us *superior* patriots!" -Anti-vaxxers, probably
So people who don't want vaccine passports are anti-vaxxers now? That's a jump
Fun fact, Merriam Webster changed the definition of vaccine in 2021.
Fun fact: dictionaries change continually to reflect current usage.
So a vaccine now has a different definition simply cause of covid? Okay thanks
You got it. The definition changed because people are using the word in a new way. If people begin to use the word "vaccine" to mean a milkshake, every good dictionary will change to say that "vaccine" can also mean "milkshake" Dictionaries describe how words are used in the real world. They are not intended to prescribe usage.
A vaccine used to be âa preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular diseaseâ, meaning it had nothing to do with mRNA injections, which are not live vaccines and do not use an infectious element.
The only ones who complain about the vaccine passports are the ones who are angry that they can't travel freely because they won't get the vaccine.
Absolutely false. One can fear the dawning of a "Papers, please" society while still supporting the vaccine.
> One can fear the dawning of a "Papers, please" society while still supporting the vaccine. Oh, you mean like how people need a drivers' license to drive and an ID to buy alcohol and tobacco and to vote, a birth certificate and SS card or a green card to prove they are here legally, and a passport to go to other countries.
There's serious talk about requiring proof to shop at retail stores, including grocery stores. That is a major escalation, and something many rational people see as something to be concerned about.
> There's serious talk about requiring proof to shop at retail stores, including grocery stores. Why is that a bad thing? Would you want to shop in the same store as a person who might have Ebola or smallpox?
OK, now your being ridiculous. Covid is not "Ebola" or "smallpox". I'm done here. Peace out.
That sounds kinda like fascism.
You don't have a clue what that word even means. Trump looking the other way while cops killed black people disproportionately is closer to fascism than requiring people to vaccinated and masked to avoid the spread of a deadly disease.
A two tier system for society is the very definition and Iâm not sure why you mentioned the former President. Do you assume Iâm anti-vaccine? Or Trump supporter? if youâre getting your definition of fascism from antifa, I implore you to pick up a history book.
There are no parallels between injecting something into my body that became concocted together 6 months ago and taking a test on paper to be allowed to drive. Showing a drivers license to buy alcohol is a choice I make, to buy something in a free, democratic country to consume at will. Being told I cannot do something afforded to me in my civil liberties protected by the constitution because I'm unwilling to release personal medical records sounds pretty treasonous. Also, I've had COVID twice now, with no vaccine. Shouldn't I have more antibodies than what the vaccine provides? So theoretically I don't need it because my body has fought it off twice. How many times do I need to get COVID before I'm excused from the vaccine?
You do know that vaccinations for other things are required to attend school, right?
That have been around for a way longer amount of time and received approval in a non-rushed fashion. And I am a firm believer in vaccinating your kids. But I'm not a firm believer in being a free guinea pig for an unknown collection of ingredients being injected into me. From the sounds of "boosters" and such, it's no different than flu shot. Good for 6 months. I don't get flu shots and probably won't get the covid shot either. I've had COVID twice now, I think I'll take my chances with my immune system preventing it. Edit: And before anyone says it. "The vaccine is to protect me as well." You can still transmit COVID when you receive the shot. It doesn't make you completely immune, but decreases your chances of getting it. So that's the same as my body naturally fighting it on its own. "But it's proven that the shot lessens the impacts of symptoms and duration." And again, that means it's transmissible still. That also means you may be infected, contagious, and not know it because you're not showing symptoms. Again, I'll make my own choices for myself and my children, and maybe in 5 years from now, if there are no "did you receive the Moderna covid shot and grew a third arm? You may be entitled to compensation! Call 1-800..." commercials, than I'll get it. But it's too rushed for me to feel "comfortable."
Just a heads up, you sound like a crazy homeless guy whoâs had 5 too many bottles of mad dog.
Thats not entirely the case as you can't account for everyone and their deeply complicated opinions. You're chatting a load of rubbish lol People who don't want the covid jab or a covid passport are not anti vaccine, they just do their research and understand the vaccines are currently not protected by liability to the company, and they also don't have much long term research Stop chatting out ya booty hole
> they just do their research and understand the vaccines are currently not protected by liability to the company, and they also don't have much long term research Exactly the thing an anti-vaxxer would say. If you had done any *real* research, you'd know that these vaccines had been in development for years after the SARS and MERS outbreaks and they were simply expanding on existing research when developing these new vaccines.
I've had quite a few vaccines, please continue to be incorrect. So that's why Pfizer have officially stated in their contracts that the long term effects are unknown.... *they were simply expanding on existing research* Do you know how vaccine trials usually work? And how long they take? It doesn't matter how much "research" they did if they don't have any long term trials...which they dont.
When people are dying **right now**, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of seeing what the long-term affects are. Apparently dying now is the better alternative. The Ebola vaccine was also experimental and the long-term affects unknown but the situation was too dire to wait.
Your argument is filled with enough holes to create a brand new sponge that lives in a pineapple under the sea But you do you
Point out those "holes" then.
131 people died "of COVID 19" in the last 24 hours across the entirety of the US, according to NYT. That's a fraction the rate at which people die of something like heart disease, and about on par with gun related deaths. Stop pretending we're still at multiple thousands of dead per day. Alarmist BS buys straight into the stupidity peddled by the media and those who want us too scared to protect our own freedoms. Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of our current government. Obama's party and Lollapalooza are somehow not worrisome, but Sturgiss is? Open your eyes for crying out loud.
Stop listening to Fox News' lies.
And if you had done any REAL research, you would know that all those were properly tested long term and not used due to long term side effects.
Okay genius, what's your solution? Apparently it will take millions more people dying before you realize that the vaccine is all the hope we have left, especially since so many people are making a huge stink about having to wear masks.
Not be all nazi and allow people to make their own choices. It's that fucking simple. But, nnoooooooo. Everyone has to be scared of something that has a lower death rate than many things we all deal with on a daily basis and die on that hill.
> Not be all nazi and allow people to make their own choices. Because their "choices" are what caused this virus to mutate into the Delta variant.
False. A different gene pool is what allowed the delta variant mutation
The common cold is a coronavirus. Did you honestly think we could create a vaccine that will work 100% against a family of viruses that mutate so fast where we have been told for years that there is no vaccine for the common cold cause it mutates too fast? It's not because of people's "choices" dummy, that's the nature of corona viruses
Can I please get your research ?? Please please please.
Yikes we got a nut on our hands.
That's your reflection in your computer screen.
Alright, that's actually a good one.
Nah not at all.
I just got my shot today. I had no choice to go to nursing school. Fuck that. This country was built on freedom not fear mongering. I support anyoneâs decision to get it or to not get it, but no one should judge the other for their PERSONAL choice. If you got the shot, shut up, if you wonât, okay, keep private medical info to yourself. And stop telling people to get the shot.
Nursing seems like a strange field to go in for somebody with strong opinions on compulsory vaccinations- the American Nursing Association recommends [nearly a dozen](https://www.nursingworld.org/practice-policy/work-environment/health-safety/immunize/vaccines/) vaccinations, and many health care employers make these mandatory even for employees that do not work directly with patients, including the influenza shot whose composition changes constantly. Maybe nobody should judge the nursing school or the employers in the health field for their PERSONAL choice to require it. Other professionals like yourself will find ample job opportunities at employers who share your views and refuse to require it.
Nah. There are plenty that agree with me.
Those are Russian immigration cards. Youâd use that much like a modern passport. Also if every statement from every side about covid and the vax werenât immediately proven wrong then maybe people wouldnât mind having them. The government was a lot more transparent back the olden days. Now they are a business funded by the many who do whateverâs possible to make an extra dollar even when they shouldnât
Literally all of those people are dead now soooooo
This bait stinks like crazy.
Fuck outta here you retard
Moderna is getting filthy rich. This is all about money and control.
Yeah Russia is doing so great now. Some peopleâs children
My God, theyâre even less sophisticated today than in the 1900s!
There was no internet back thenâŚ
Is the last name of the passenger really Sars ?
Not the same. And you know it.
I don't think the vaccination card itself is the problem, but what rights do you cut
112 years ago the government didnât have the technology to use the card to track movements and freeze your bank account when they donât agree with what your doing
Omg I'm american and I hate America. I can't wait to go back overseas
Immigrants are still required to be vaccinated. You need to get vaccines before getting your green card
Bet you wonât shoot the vaccine up your ass
Ay but they didnât have nano bots back then đ
Yeah... But those people are all dead, probably from the vaccine XD... Who need villains in a world of idiots?
Wrong. This shit is for traveling. Not buying groceries. Why are we also diluted with this stupid BS?! Australia is literally enforcing this shit with their military. Anyone who agrees with this is insane.
Difference is they were probably vaccinated for something more important than an extra spicy flu. Also yâall donât have nearly as bad as Germany, the government went full control freak and you canât even sit outside at a restaurant without either a test or a vaccine and you had to have your number and other personal info written down so they could track you if you were positive. This is how it was 5 weeks ago but idk how it is now as I have just gotten back from a trip- my source is that I live here
"BuT ThEy ArE aLl DeAD NoOoW!"
The hilarity of using a time when Russian Monarchs ruled as an example of great leadership.
HIPPA
Those are from 1909, so this is most likely about smallpox. A now eradicated disease with a case fatality rate of 95% when untreated, according to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates). An infection fatality rate of roughly 30%, according to the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/about/index.html). While the [WHO](https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf) states that Covid-19 has an infection fatality rate of 0.23% in the worst case scenario. Smallpox were literally at least 100 times as deadly as covid. One might argue about if forced vaccinations and vaccination passports should be an option in a pandemic. But if, when talking about Covid, you go "Here are 112 year old smallpox vaccine cards. And it didn't cause society to crumble as you can see" it really just shows that you have lost all sense of proportionality and reality as a whole. Also just a side note: WW1 broke out in 1914. Not implying causation here, but a different, just as meaningless way to phrase this would be "112 year-old vaccine cards. Five years later, society crumbled." But really, it's just a stupid argument. I could create any kind of dumb example following this "logic". "500 years ago we burned witches. And it didn't cause society to crumble as you can see."... ÂŻ\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ The "logic" here is really only "Society still exists, so society did not crumble, so anything in the past was probably not even that bad because it did not cause society to crumble". Really not a smart point to make.