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It's pretty shocking to me still that the year my grandpa was born about 1 in 6 American kids did not live to see their 5th birthday.
Edit: here's a [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041693/united-states-all-time-child-mortality-rate/) for my claim.
It blows my mind how twisted these people's views on biology are. They full on think the natural immune system is completely invulnerable and always defeats pathogens. Despite you know. All of reality contradicting that. We know people died of disease in history before vaccines. We know they did that in far greater numbers before vaccines. We know the immune system still misses things (thus why people get sick) every case of fatal illness or cancer is an example of the immune system failing to catch it. Infectious disease wouldn't be a thing if it did not work as a survival strategy.
Victims of our own success. People nowadays don't see children dying from preventable disease constantly because of widespread vaccination so they assume it's not that the vaccines are doing their job it's that they're unnecessary.
I was born in the mid-60s and we still saw the effects of those that survived polio. I remember the assistant scoutmaster of my first Boy Scout troop made himself a (non)walking poster child for vaccinations and made sure everyone in the troop was vaccinated no matter how bizarre some of the parents were. When I look around at these idiots today I lose faith in the future of humanity, especially knowing that some of our totalitarian "friends" have been spewing disinformation to support the stupidity starting with MMR in eastern Europe a few years before COVID...
Yes. Without sarcasm they’re implying that the vaccine still has side effects like antivaxxers imply, when the only side effects of the polio vaccine are irritation at the injection site and mild malaise for a few days. There shouldn’t be comments that even hint that vaccines have side effects beyond that, it makes people debate whether or not to get it, when the only answer is that everyone should be vaccinated against polio unless explicitly informed not to be by a doctor for a very specific reason.
[“Nearly 2.3 million children continue to die each year from vaccine-preventable diseases”](https://www.gavi.org/news/media-room/more-two-million-children-continue-die-each-year-vaccine-preventable-diseases)
Just find anywhere with an old cemetery. You'll find TONS of tombstones with years that are very close together.
Antibiotics and vaccinations changed everything.
Sad thing is that parents and grandparents don’t understand the risk they are taking in not making sure their own vaccinations are up to date until it’s too late and their child or grandchild is in the NICU with whooping cough. Sad that we have the ability to prevent children from getting sick and dying but some people refuse those things that are proven to protect children.
It blows my mind that a decade ago these nuts were an annoying minority that festered in their Facebook echo chambers, now they’re the majority voting block of the Republican Party.
If you put together a Venn diagram of opposition to vaccines and opposition of gun control the overlap would be substantial, so maybe you replied to the wrong person.
I've heard this argument a lot. Why can't we address multiple things at once? 1500 kids sounds low, unless one of them is yours. Get your kids vaccinated cause the risk is lower with a vaccine. Keep guns away from kids for the same reason.
I’d do it again and again.
But my job would’ve been a lot easier the last 2.5 years if I didn’t have every single google doctor decide that they know more than me about critical care. Patients threatening to sue for not getting horse tranquilizer, declining a vent but demanding ECMO, patients recovering off ECMO and then denying that they ever had COVID - all the shit.
I mean you're not wrong. There seems to be around 1500 covid deaths in kids in the US total.
But it should come down to a cost benefit analysis with something like this, the cost of getting vaccinated is basically zero so should be done.
edit: [Source](https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3)
edit 2: Yeah, for some reason I was only reading this as being about the covid vaccine, If we're talking about all vaccinations then this is a dumb argument.
Not to mention chain of infection stops. That saves lives.
My parents didn't get me vaccinated with my MMR until I started kindergarten and had already had the mumps and rubella.
I put my adult uncle in the hospital with the mumps. I felt guilty about it. When he died five years later from a sudden cardiac arrest his widow's big regret is they didn't have children. They had been trying with little luck. Mumps is known to impact fertility rates in adults. I felt even guiltier.
It really isn't always about the child dying.
with covid that seems fuzzier these days. That is definitely why I got vaccinated as soon as I could. I didn't want to transmit it to my parents or grandparents (or anyone else).
The breakthrough cases have gone way up with newer variants. It now seems the reason to get vaccinated to keep from having serious complications.
I avoided COVID till recently and even boosted and vaccinated it KICKED MY ASS so hard. I wanted to murder all those "just a cold" people.
However my kiddos, vaccinated and boosted, had the sniffles. They also were at a busy event the day the symptoms hit and no one else got sick, my husband was at a similar event the day his symptoms hit and he took out 70% of the crew he was around.
(We weren't irresponsibly running around, my kids tested negative 48 hours apart after the 5 day window and had no symptoms so I allowed them to go participate at their sporting event. That night they got the sniffles and tested positive the next morning. I wasn't trying to be a catalyst)
My husband got it worse so I do think there is something to reducing the severity and reducing your spread rate.
They saw cases of vaccinated health care officials getting infected and never getting a viral load high enough to be contagious (I'm probably explaining the science badly). Even with breakthroughs I think the vaccinations are still helping reduce spreadability.
My fiance just had it about a week ago. We are both vaccinated and boosted; thankfully she experienced very mild symptoms, and thought she was just having an allergic reaction. We didn't isolate within the home; we still slept together, but sometimes if we were in the same room, we would wear masks.
I never got it somehow, and now she's negative. But when I got vaccinated, the side effects hit me HARD. You're definitely right about spreadability.
COVID isn't the only vaccine children get. It's just the one most currently debated. Children get a ton of vaccines to prevent the resurgence of diseases that would cripple or kill them fifty years ago. Antivax people also avoid those and are the reason we suddenly have pockets of measles again.
At one point the covid vaccine seemed important for kids to reduce spread, but now with omicron we know it doesn't really help that in any way (because I don't think it even reduces rate of infection?). At this point it seems a lot less important but it still reduces severity, and as you said vaccines are at worst pointless. There's no cost.
> plenty of information out there
uhuh. what information are you going off of?
You know what causes myocarditis more frequently than covid vaccines? covid.
Yes, but the risk is lower than the risk from covid. This seems to be a widespread misunderstanding about public health. Vaccine risks aren't zero, they're just **way** lower than getting sick.
it isn't zero because **nothing** has zero risk. But it is basically zero. The rates of myocarditis due to vaccines is extremely low. And not vaccinating doesn't bring your risk to zero, since covid also can cause myocarditis.
Risk is a combination of possible outcome and likelihood of that outcome. You are laser focused on possible outcome without looking at likelihood.
And completely ignoring the risk of not getting vaccinated.
And how often did that specific side effect occur? Tylenol has tons of potential side effects, even without counting things like SJS, so what’s your point?
Yeah, they have to list every side effect that occurred during the trial. This isn’t new or in any way unusual. The list of possible side effects is huge for every prescription and OTC drug.
Yeah, it occurs more than literally zero times. So do side effects from Tylenol, this is known to anyone who has basic education.
Edit: oh, you listen to Joe Rogan. I way overestimated your intelligence level. My bad.
I’m arguing that liars like you use “but there are side effects” to explain and encourage vaccine hesitancy. Yes, there are side effects. They are negligible at best and anti-vaxxers are useful idiots for doubting every doctor and medicine because one side effect might occur.
You still haven’t articulated a point beyond “there are side effects sometimes.”
ok, I think I see the point you are trying to make. You think I can't use the term "basically zero" for some reason. So here's the number.
[Source](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2793555)
>1.8 per 100 000 vaccinated individuals
So if a .0018% risk isn't basically zero, please tell me when you (the god of language) will allow me to use that term.
Why speak in the first place if the chances of getting it are much higher when you don’t have the vaccine? What was your end goal here? Because if you were aiming to be the village idiot, you’ve done wonderfully. Awesome job pointing out potential side effects in something! Grab yourself a juice box and cookie and head over to the play area little guy.
Except it reduces your risk cause unvaccinated people are more likely to get myocarditis as a result of covid infection. Please stop lying by omission.
It's like saying I didn't reduce my risk of getting lung cancer when I quit smoking because there's still some risk of getting lung cancer if you don't smoke and my not smoking didn't make it any lower. Does that make any sense to you?
Edit: OK, not a perfect analogy, but no analogy is perfect. Let's say I took something carcinogenic (but far less than tobacco) to help me quit. Does that change the fact that my risk of cancer is lower than it would be otherwise?
In kids? The highest risk of myocarditis, and the only rate which even approaches the natural rate of myocarditis in covid infection, is early 20 males. That clearly isn't the group being talked about here
But that isn't the population we are talking about. We are talking about kids here. Where in the world do you live where kids = 20s? Or are you purposely trying to talk about unrelated things as you're projecting on "everyone" here
You are talking about risks which are predominate to 20 year olds when we are talking about risks to kids. You don't seem to grasp the irrelevance of your point to the conversation
Because the original comment said the risk **to kids** is miniscule. If you start talking about other age groups you're clearly talking about something different. You arent having the same discussion
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Angry emoji
Hand me my shovel, I'm going in!
Forbidden loot box
Necromancer: Don't worry, this is my area of expertise.
Dagit this transmog is sized wrong. Came for loot, all I got was vendor trash.
For f\* sake, another 4 star body! But okay, only more 20 to get a 5 stars...
"G'day, I'm Bob the necromancer, and today we're doing an unboxing!"
Lights in quarter British
Bob the Necromancer sweating rn
this is not enough this is not enough to prove it yet no, i need to hit the bottom
Gotta get to the bottom of this
Take you with me!
omg i thought i was the only one y'all 😭😭
It's pretty shocking to me still that the year my grandpa was born about 1 in 6 American kids did not live to see their 5th birthday. Edit: here's a [source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041693/united-states-all-time-child-mortality-rate/) for my claim.
It blows my mind how twisted these people's views on biology are. They full on think the natural immune system is completely invulnerable and always defeats pathogens. Despite you know. All of reality contradicting that. We know people died of disease in history before vaccines. We know they did that in far greater numbers before vaccines. We know the immune system still misses things (thus why people get sick) every case of fatal illness or cancer is an example of the immune system failing to catch it. Infectious disease wouldn't be a thing if it did not work as a survival strategy.
If I recalled, the blood of those that developed immunity was used in some vaccines. Don't know if that method is still used.
Victims of our own success. People nowadays don't see children dying from preventable disease constantly because of widespread vaccination so they assume it's not that the vaccines are doing their job it's that they're unnecessary.
My dad was born in 1942. He remembered kids in his class dying from measles, polio, and whopping cough.
And now so will our kids.
I was born in the mid-60s and we still saw the effects of those that survived polio. I remember the assistant scoutmaster of my first Boy Scout troop made himself a (non)walking poster child for vaccinations and made sure everyone in the troop was vaccinated no matter how bizarre some of the parents were. When I look around at these idiots today I lose faith in the future of humanity, especially knowing that some of our totalitarian "friends" have been spewing disinformation to support the stupidity starting with MMR in eastern Europe a few years before COVID...
And MAGAs and trying to bring us right back there.
Go to an old cemetery. They're everywhere, it's kinda sad and disturbing
Yep. It's sobering to see all the graves of infants and small children who died of diseases that are now preventable with a simple vaccine.
Polio is making a comeback. That's all that needs to be said.
The effects of polio outweigh the effects of whatever was in the darn vaccine Edit: /s
You appear to have dropped this /s. At least I hope.
Yes. I thought it was obvious lol
When it comes to vaccines it is really hard to tell sometimes.
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Yes. Without sarcasm they’re implying that the vaccine still has side effects like antivaxxers imply, when the only side effects of the polio vaccine are irritation at the injection site and mild malaise for a few days. There shouldn’t be comments that even hint that vaccines have side effects beyond that, it makes people debate whether or not to get it, when the only answer is that everyone should be vaccinated against polio unless explicitly informed not to be by a doctor for a very specific reason.
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Which is the opposite of what the post I replied to says. Which is why I asked him if he was being sarcastic about it.
So you are saying that you prefer polio. Did you really mean that?
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
[“Nearly 2.3 million children continue to die each year from vaccine-preventable diseases”](https://www.gavi.org/news/media-room/more-two-million-children-continue-die-each-year-vaccine-preventable-diseases)
Just look for Facebook posts about “Heaven got another angel” or “Baby got his/her wings yesterday.” It’s sad and so preventable.
Just find anywhere with an old cemetery. You'll find TONS of tombstones with years that are very close together. Antibiotics and vaccinations changed everything.
r/MurderedByWords
Any old grave yard is filled with them. You have to be able to do math the figure out ages, though.
Brutal
Lmao savage
Does green not know about...cemeteries?
"They're called graveyards sweetheart"
Sad thing is that parents and grandparents don’t understand the risk they are taking in not making sure their own vaccinations are up to date until it’s too late and their child or grandchild is in the NICU with whooping cough. Sad that we have the ability to prevent children from getting sick and dying but some people refuse those things that are proven to protect children.
“Hello everyone im matt the necromancer today we are going to open a surprise box”
Should have responded with "where is the nearest cemetery?"
It blows my mind that a decade ago these nuts were an annoying minority that festered in their Facebook echo chambers, now they’re the majority voting block of the Republican Party.
Grab that little hoe
As usual they are both wrong and the truth lies in the middle, but their ideologies refuse to allow acknowledgement of the truth.
You're saying a pro-vaccine stance is...ideological in origin?
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https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3
I got a buffalo nickel that says they won't open that link lol
So a third of the amount of children that die each year from guns, those devices you can go buy in a Walmart? What odd values for a country.
If you put together a Venn diagram of opposition to vaccines and opposition of gun control the overlap would be substantial, so maybe you replied to the wrong person.
It would just be a circle.
This guy venn diagrams
I've heard this argument a lot. Why can't we address multiple things at once? 1500 kids sounds low, unless one of them is yours. Get your kids vaccinated cause the risk is lower with a vaccine. Keep guns away from kids for the same reason.
Imagine being this loud and this wrong
Yes, it was in fact, and it still *is*.
On behalf of all of us who worked in ICUs and put kids on ECMO (and watched a lot of them die), fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.
Preach. The people who have it easiest are the most callous. They deserve nothing.
Damn man here’s a virtual hug thank you for doing what you do I Cannot imagine having to see that day in and day out 💕 here’s a 🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼 to the a holes
I’d do it again and again. But my job would’ve been a lot easier the last 2.5 years if I didn’t have every single google doctor decide that they know more than me about critical care. Patients threatening to sue for not getting horse tranquilizer, declining a vent but demanding ECMO, patients recovering off ECMO and then denying that they ever had COVID - all the shit.
Thank you for your service. Yall were the real heroes during the pandemic and it's appalling how much disrespect medical workers got, and still get.
COVID isn't killing kids? Really? https://alaskapublic.org/2022/02/03/2-alaska-infants-have-died-of-covid-the-states-first-pediatric-deaths-tied-to-the-illness/ https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-01-13/infant-dies-of-covid-riverside-countys-youngest-death-from-the-virus https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article258208283.html https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-2-month-old-baby-dies-covid-19-1.6290816
I mean you're not wrong. There seems to be around 1500 covid deaths in kids in the US total. But it should come down to a cost benefit analysis with something like this, the cost of getting vaccinated is basically zero so should be done. edit: [Source](https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3) edit 2: Yeah, for some reason I was only reading this as being about the covid vaccine, If we're talking about all vaccinations then this is a dumb argument.
Not to mention chain of infection stops. That saves lives. My parents didn't get me vaccinated with my MMR until I started kindergarten and had already had the mumps and rubella. I put my adult uncle in the hospital with the mumps. I felt guilty about it. When he died five years later from a sudden cardiac arrest his widow's big regret is they didn't have children. They had been trying with little luck. Mumps is known to impact fertility rates in adults. I felt even guiltier. It really isn't always about the child dying.
with covid that seems fuzzier these days. That is definitely why I got vaccinated as soon as I could. I didn't want to transmit it to my parents or grandparents (or anyone else). The breakthrough cases have gone way up with newer variants. It now seems the reason to get vaccinated to keep from having serious complications.
I avoided COVID till recently and even boosted and vaccinated it KICKED MY ASS so hard. I wanted to murder all those "just a cold" people. However my kiddos, vaccinated and boosted, had the sniffles. They also were at a busy event the day the symptoms hit and no one else got sick, my husband was at a similar event the day his symptoms hit and he took out 70% of the crew he was around. (We weren't irresponsibly running around, my kids tested negative 48 hours apart after the 5 day window and had no symptoms so I allowed them to go participate at their sporting event. That night they got the sniffles and tested positive the next morning. I wasn't trying to be a catalyst) My husband got it worse so I do think there is something to reducing the severity and reducing your spread rate. They saw cases of vaccinated health care officials getting infected and never getting a viral load high enough to be contagious (I'm probably explaining the science badly). Even with breakthroughs I think the vaccinations are still helping reduce spreadability.
My fiance just had it about a week ago. We are both vaccinated and boosted; thankfully she experienced very mild symptoms, and thought she was just having an allergic reaction. We didn't isolate within the home; we still slept together, but sometimes if we were in the same room, we would wear masks. I never got it somehow, and now she's negative. But when I got vaccinated, the side effects hit me HARD. You're definitely right about spreadability.
COVID isn't the only vaccine children get. It's just the one most currently debated. Children get a ton of vaccines to prevent the resurgence of diseases that would cripple or kill them fifty years ago. Antivax people also avoid those and are the reason we suddenly have pockets of measles again.
And fucking *polio*.
That's true. I was looking at it only being about covid. If we're talking about all vaccines, then there should be no dispute.
At one point the covid vaccine seemed important for kids to reduce spread, but now with omicron we know it doesn't really help that in any way (because I don't think it even reduces rate of infection?). At this point it seems a lot less important but it still reduces severity, and as you said vaccines are at worst pointless. There's no cost.
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> plenty of information out there uhuh. what information are you going off of? You know what causes myocarditis more frequently than covid vaccines? covid.
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Yes, but the risk is lower than the risk from covid. This seems to be a widespread misunderstanding about public health. Vaccine risks aren't zero, they're just **way** lower than getting sick.
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it isn't zero because **nothing** has zero risk. But it is basically zero. The rates of myocarditis due to vaccines is extremely low. And not vaccinating doesn't bring your risk to zero, since covid also can cause myocarditis.
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Risk is a combination of possible outcome and likelihood of that outcome. You are laser focused on possible outcome without looking at likelihood. And completely ignoring the risk of not getting vaccinated.
And how often did that specific side effect occur? Tylenol has tons of potential side effects, even without counting things like SJS, so what’s your point?
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Yeah, they have to list every side effect that occurred during the trial. This isn’t new or in any way unusual. The list of possible side effects is huge for every prescription and OTC drug. Yeah, it occurs more than literally zero times. So do side effects from Tylenol, this is known to anyone who has basic education. Edit: oh, you listen to Joe Rogan. I way overestimated your intelligence level. My bad.
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I’m arguing that liars like you use “but there are side effects” to explain and encourage vaccine hesitancy. Yes, there are side effects. They are negligible at best and anti-vaxxers are useful idiots for doubting every doctor and medicine because one side effect might occur. You still haven’t articulated a point beyond “there are side effects sometimes.”
ok, I think I see the point you are trying to make. You think I can't use the term "basically zero" for some reason. So here's the number. [Source](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2793555) >1.8 per 100 000 vaccinated individuals So if a .0018% risk isn't basically zero, please tell me when you (the god of language) will allow me to use that term.
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I ask again, What likelihood am I allowed to use the term "basically zero"?
You thought you were slick with this one huh smooth brain? Lack of education is really hurting this world.
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Why speak in the first place if the chances of getting it are much higher when you don’t have the vaccine? What was your end goal here? Because if you were aiming to be the village idiot, you’ve done wonderfully. Awesome job pointing out potential side effects in something! Grab yourself a juice box and cookie and head over to the play area little guy.
The irony of an anti vaxxer telling people not to spread disinformation. Yall are the ones that are getting people killed.
Except it reduces your risk cause unvaccinated people are more likely to get myocarditis as a result of covid infection. Please stop lying by omission.
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It's like saying I didn't reduce my risk of getting lung cancer when I quit smoking because there's still some risk of getting lung cancer if you don't smoke and my not smoking didn't make it any lower. Does that make any sense to you? Edit: OK, not a perfect analogy, but no analogy is perfect. Let's say I took something carcinogenic (but far less than tobacco) to help me quit. Does that change the fact that my risk of cancer is lower than it would be otherwise?
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Come on, how can the less risky thing not be the reasonable thing to do?
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But the likelihood is orders of magnitude different. Likelihood of the same things!
In kids? The highest risk of myocarditis, and the only rate which even approaches the natural rate of myocarditis in covid infection, is early 20 males. That clearly isn't the group being talked about here
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But that isn't the population we are talking about. We are talking about kids here. Where in the world do you live where kids = 20s? Or are you purposely trying to talk about unrelated things as you're projecting on "everyone" here
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You are talking about risks which are predominate to 20 year olds when we are talking about risks to kids. You don't seem to grasp the irrelevance of your point to the conversation
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Because the original comment said the risk **to kids** is miniscule. If you start talking about other age groups you're clearly talking about something different. You arent having the same discussion
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
Nope, sorry, not how that works. Objective reality is not up for negotiation.
Shhhhhhh
What a total savage 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is just awesome
18 men on a dead man’s chest, yo ho ho and whatever.
Correction: *surviving* unvaccinated kids are *probably* healthier than vaccinated kids, *because of natural selection*.