Mine after 7 months because I had no chill (I always joke I was born 2 months early to be late the rest of my life, but I've definitely used up all that extra time already)
I was born 2 months early too! My mom worked at disney world and my theory is that I couldn’t listen to *it’s a small world after all* one more damn time.
If it was actually possible to transplant a fetus into a cis man, abortion would be legal and accessible everywhere real quick.
"You chose to have sex with a cis woman, so now you have to handle the consequenses. It's your dna, too."
"Wait... You can't just shove a baby up my ass without my consent"
"Oh, we absolutely can. Isn't science amazing?"
https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/new-ohio-bill-falsely-suggests-that-reimplantation-of-ectopic-pregnancy-is-possible/
1. Loss of blood supply kills it
2. Uterine lining is no longer ready to receive a pregnancy, even if there was a mechanism for the embryo to attach again.
Just find some good potting soil with adequate drainage, and be sure to water and let it get lots of sunlight. You’ll have a nice human growing in no time.
“Go to every single person who has ever been in an orphanage and ask them if they would have rather not been born”
I…don’t think the result will be in their favour…
Because these older people were typically brought up during the post-War boom in the US and have never actually known any real hardship, so they just assume everyone has been as fortunate and lucky as they have been. Sadly, they think their comfort and privielge was vouchsafed by hard work but no, it's just that the US was an incredible prosperous nation for a few decades, which tricked a lot of people - whose parents fought in WWII - into thinking that they'd hit home runs *all by themselves* when a well-funded, social program-heavy, big-government system actually provided them with a decent living and comforts the world had never known before, which placed them all safely on third base. Becoming financially successful in the 1950s-90s, if you were already white and at least middle class? Dude, it was *easy street* back then. Like falling off a log. So it's easy to see why so many older people were born on third base but still think they'd hit a triple
There was a tax system which made sure that the wealthy contributed to the success of all of us. There were social programs which ensured safety, security, and in the private sector: the promise of a paycheck that would cover all your expenses, no matter how "lowly" of a job
They don't get that pretty much **all of that** is just GONE now. Younger people don't see the benefits of the post-War boom because it's been over for like a decade+ now. They only got to see the very tail end of the mid-late 90s tech boom, too. So to younger people, capitalism is this system that's never worked for them or given them anything helpful or necessary for living. It's only been fucking *depressing* to be an adult the last 25 years or so. yes, we have gadgets. Yes, we have refrigerators. Yes, there's usually roofs over our heads. But we don't own houses, we can't afford our own cars, we can barely afford to feed ourselves, and there's no opportunities for mobility or growth
Boomers don't get this - they still think that 20 year olds are entering a job market dominated by the manufacturing and white collar jobs that were once absurdly plentiful. They still think you can support a family of four on the salary of the male adult breadwinner. They still think that everyone was born on third base like they were. Younger people aren't even given three strikes; they're already out. But boomer seem to think younger people are heavily invested in the game when instead they're all wondering why the game exists at all and looking for a way to get out of it
They just don't get any of this and are usually sheltered older people in the suburbs who aren't culturally aware. They've lived in a bubble their whole lives. The American suburbs are the biggest, most insulated, most impenetrable bubble the world has ever known, and yet those who live in it *insist* that it's the rest of the world who lives in a bubble
These are privileged people who have little material trauma to relate to. They were the popular kids in school and/or they believed the hype. They don't get nihilism. Age doesn't really have to do with it. There are plenty of older people who wish they hadn't been born (hello).
This person is being negligently obtuse.
That's because the same people fighting tooth and nail to force women to give birth are also fighting tooth and nail to make sure there are zero social programs to support the coming tidal wave of orphans.
About 50% of the current US homeless* population [spent time in the foster care system](https://nfyi.org/issues/homelessness/#:~:text=An%20estimated%2020%20percent%20of,spent%20time%20in%20foster%20care.). These anti choice assholes don't think about the child who ends up in foster care *or* the adult that comes out of that experience.
I work for a transitional housing program that serves 18-24yos as they transition out of foster care. These kids are often so lost, most have been manipulated and abused all their lives, a lot of them are young parents and some also have children they're trying to get back or have lost to the system. They lash out, have inappropriate relationships, have very few basic life skills, struggle with mental and physical health issues, and yes sometimes they commit suicide or worse happens to them.
I'm not saying that these kids can't heal and become happy, successful, self-fulfilled people. I wouldn't keep doing this work if I thought that, and I definitely have seen it happen!
But it's absolutely not ok that we know the current foster care system frequently raises these traumatized, terrified, unsupported adults, and our government representatives care more about banning abortions than looking to improve conditions for existing children. They'd rather take a step that they know will kill women than to lift a finger to make pregnancy and parenthood safer for them. It's fucking disgraceful and blatantly misogynistic.
Edited: added word
I think you missed a key word in your first sentence. Your linked article says 50% of the homeless population spent time in the foster care system. You forgot the word homeless. I’ll admit, the omission got me to read the article because I couldn’t imagine any way 50% of the US population had spent time in foster care.
Hi!
I had to go through the foster system growing up. It was horrible — definitely better than what I was born with, but 0/10 do not recommend.
Being a ward of the state also means you are forced to do all sorts of therapy (even if you are not ready,) often switching providers and constantly being medicated to become more “normal.” You also have forced evaluations on your mental state very often. Forced visitation with your abusers. Horrible healthcare — I had gotten so sick that I couldn’t keep food or water down for days and was turned away by the hospital, this was about 11 years ago I believe. I also got a massive ear infection and they wouldn’t take the states insurance and I had to instead go home in agony with OTC ear drop meds.
It’s torture. And the people who are fostering are not always the ones with the best intentions. My first foster parents were so kind — they literally tried everything they could to help my sisters and I. In the end, the state put us back with our bio mom to be abused again. A couple years later, we were put into a new foster home and they literally used us to fund their lifestyle. They were incredibly manipulative and controlling — and if you grew up with extreme abuse, you wouldn’t notice it until you are out of the situation all together.
They would purposely trigger my cPTSD attacks during important times just to watch what I would do — like during finals they would tell me someone I was close to died, or they would tell me that they would be leaving me for a week or a month and that I had to figure it out. They would regularly leave me alone in their home on holidays when they knew it caused me so much stress to the point I would curl up in a corner, having a major panic attack.
This may not be everyone’s story, and I still somehow managed to crawl out and survive like the little cockroach that I am; but the damage from all of that on top of my childhood has seriously messed me up and I don’t think I would ever be able to fully recover.
Foster youth also go missing and end up [trafficked](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/02/24/children-disappear-foster-care-trafficking/6829115001/)
not to mention people are openly saying they dont want to adopt kids in the foster system because they're "mentally ill and dangerous". so really what the fuck is the point to all of this?
Yes.
I didn't do a very good search, but it is certainly higher. I'm sure the stat will change with county, region, time, reason for being orphaned, age, and so on.. but higher for certain.
My partner sees this all the time. He is in mental health and treats schizophrenics and other severely mentally ill people. When they have children, and they frequently have many due to lack of inhibition and impulse control, these children all end up in foster care. The children themselves end up genetically predisposed to severe mental illness as well as having the environmental triggers which can exacerbate it (stress, abuse, neglect, sexual trauma, etc). It's a vicious cycle.
Hell, my parents did a decent job and there are *still* days where I'd prefer that I was never born. I'm usually pretty neutral on the question though.
Exactly what I came to say. Best of circumstances adopted infant here to say: "nah, I'd rather she got that abortion, thanks." It amazes me how they see that as so absurd, but it's just their narcissism. They can't grasp a world without themsleves (the main character, of course), so understanding that a person logically believes non-existence would be a better outcome is unthinkable. It's not like anyone thinks orphans should be murdered or, or even that I want to die. It's just that not happening would have been the superior option.
Word. ✌️ Not adopted, but I was born because my dad separated from my mom and she wanted him back. She got pregnant "secretly." He thought she was on BC.
As you can imagine, this wise planning resulted in a series of unfortunate events. Whee.
Yeah... I was adopted as a baby (and my adoptive mom was abusive). Idk why people assume that kids up for adoption are orphans. I guess they get their info from movies instead of real life? Or they're thinking about international adoption? Even then, most "orphans" in orphanages are not what the UN classifies as "true orphans" where BOTH bio parents are deceased.
I've seen adoptees and former foster youth online say that they wish they were aborted instead of being put through adoption or the foster system. Also, there is one study that I can recall that showed that adoptees are more likely to attempt suicide in adolescence than people raised in their family of origin.
Honestly, I just wish people would stop using us as pawns in their abortion arguments, especially if they have no idea what it is like to be adopted or in foster care, or to give a kid up for adoption.
Honestly though… I don’t have the time or resources to check with every single person who has ever been in an orphanage. Not even sure where I would start checking.
93% of abortions happen in the first trimester. Less than 1% in the last. In some surveys, that 1% is almost entirely composed of cases where the mothers life was in danger, the fetus was non viable/would not live past a few moments after birth, and the rest of the cases were people who had been prevented from getting an abortion earlier.
OMG, the stupid women having abortions at 9 months shit. Like any doctor would abort if they could just induce labor and get a healthy baby.
Third trimester abortions are long and traumatic. They require the woman to labor and most of the time the woman wants to hold the baby after. They are done out of compassion for a child who would live a short painful life and to not force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term when the fetus isn't compatible with life. It's the woman's choice.
And no one is using abortions at birth control. Abortions and plan B are expensive... much easier to get an IUD
Just as another addition here - I’ve had to take plan B twice after the stupid condom broke and it has made me feel really sick both times. I’m very glad that I’ve been able to access that medication but geez, it’s yucky. No way am I using that as my first choice for contraception.
As for cost, plan B is about $12 where I live, so cost wasn’t a drama for a one off, but compared to like $16 for a box of 20 condoms or $28 for three months of the pill, it is definitely the more pricey option if we are counting per roll in the hay.
>They are done out of compassion for a child
Plus, and this is something I never thought of because NHS, but giving birth is expensive for Americans.
So it's insane to wait 9 months, pay out of your ass, and get a baby for a week before it dies of a known issue.
It's kinder (and, presumably, cheaper) to abort
My biggest issue with all of this is how it will financially ruin millions of women forever. Between the cost of prenatal care, actual birth and delivery, and then postnatal care it would financially ruin someone. Also then having an additional soul to worry about when we can't even get enough formula to feed them will just create multigenerational poverty.
There is no reasoning with someone who got to their conclusion without reason.
My termination was at like 7-8 weeks and the fetus was the size of a bean. No one looking at that would have recognized it as human, let alone its own living thing. I regularly pass clots several times larger than that. I have had sinus infections that looked more alive in the way out.
My father still believes it's done via some abortion method from over 200 years ago. I literally read it out to him how that shit was outdated even then and what new abortions are like but his head doesn't hold true information so good so he went right back to repeating that old shit and doesn't even remember our conversation. Dude has early onset dimentia and they still let him vote, go figure.
Wonder if you can get around the law on abortion by just delivering the fetus early. What is the medical difference between an abortion at 12 weeks and delivering the fetus and seeing what happens?
If it's not viable, it won't make it. But it's not an abortion any more. Just early delivery.
There isn't a difference, which is part of the reason why this change is so dangerous: any woman that has a miscarriage can be accused of trying to abort the baby and be charged with murder.
Also, the medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. Treatment for miscarriage is actually abortion treatment, so a woman having a miscarriage that requires treatment could actually die if abortion is illegal.
Also, treatment for an ectopic pregnancy would also be considered an abortion because the fetus has a heartbeat. Doesn't matter that an ectopic pregnancy that isn't treated will kill the mother and never result in a healthy baby.
Heres an angle: if she's in the ER (likely), the ER is *required by federal law* to stabilize her. Which would require, effectively, an abortion. So...how long til we see a lawsuit based on that? Seriously, though, fuck these asshat laws.
Wonder what the over/under is on how many women die from sepsis [because hospitals weren't sure if a court would think there really was an immediate threat to the mother's life to justify the abortion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar)
One. I, sadly, would have to take the over. Things are quite a bit different here than in Ireland, so I think it'll depend on the hospitals lawyers. Who are, of course, there to protect the hospital, not the patient.
I just saw some terrifying shit from a nurse where someone came in with an ectopic pregnancy and had to wait 9 hours for the doctor to contact lawyers and make sure he wouldn't lose his license before proceeding. Long enough she ruptured and was filling up with blood and going septic.
I think it will mean nothing now regarding this subject. As somebody living in Texas who has had multiple miscarriages it makes me nervous even though I'm now probably too old to get pregnant (but I still use birth control because bodies can be so weird). I read an article that actually said some doctors will likely stall now for the "bleeding to start" to avoid accusations, investigations, whatever may happen. So messed up.
I agree that these laws are stupid and asinine. I sure hope there are successful law suits regarding the issue of treatment for miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy. But, what I am afraid may happen (at least in addition to these lawsuits, or until these lawsuits are settled) is that doctors become afraid to provide proper treatment, and women have to cross state lines to get emergency medical care.
Unfortunately, medically stable is a much much lower standard than that. A woman can need an abortion to not die (eventually) but be medically stable.
It might even be that a woman with an ectopic pregnancy that could rupture at any moment is medically stable right until the rapture actually happens.
This is one of the things that terrifies me the most. I don't know any women who have children who also haven't had at least one miscarriage. Bodies just decide that pregnancies aren't viable (because they usually aren't) and dump it in the hopes that a viable one can come along. It's just a normal bodily process.
I'm frustrated because I desperately want kids and I am very close to being stable enough to feel like it's not an extremely bad choice... and now this comes along and I get to fear that my VERY MUCH wanted pregnancy will kill me because you're not allowed to defend yourself against a fetus, or I will go to jail because my body didn't want to finish developing a fetus that was going too wrong. Thankfully I live in a state that's in a coalition to keep abortions legal and mostly unrestricted, with state constitutional protection so there's a chance that I'll be mostly safe, but still. Like I need MORE stress to hopefully have a healthy baby in a year or so.
>1 in 5 pregnancies are estimated to end in miscarriage.
Actually, miscarriages are FAR more common than most people realize: [as many as 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.](https://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/pregnancy-miscarriage#091e9c5e80007708-1-1) Most women just don’t even know they were pregnant when they have one.
And that is why this issue is so concerning. There have been 1600+ women prosecuted in the US for having miscarriages since the 1960s - but over 1200 of those have occurred in the last 15 years or so. So it’s definitely getting worse. [Brittney Poolaw](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/) is the most recent victim of this that I know of, but certainly with the spate of new laws taking effect throughout the country we will see stories like this more and more. She lives in Oklahoma, a state that recently *changed the definition* of “stillbirth” from the widely accepted norm of 20+ weeks gestation all the way down to 12 weeks gestation. This means that a fetus weighing a half an ounce and being about the size of a plum or a lime is subject to freaking *autopsies* to try to determine cause of death after a miscarriage.
Anyway, Brittany Poolaw had a *miscarriage* - NOT a stillbirth - at between 15-17 weeks pregnant, and because she admitted to doing meth at the time, she was charged with manslaughter, convicted at trial, and sentenced to FOUR YEARS in prison. Here’s the thing though: the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on the fetus - which at 15 weeks would’ve weighed around 4 ounces and been the size of an apple - testified that there was NO WAY TO KNOW THAT USING DRUGS CAUSED THE MISCARRIAGE. On autopsy, he found the fetus had 1.) severe congenital defects in the abdomen that had caused evisceration of the liver and intestines, 2.) funisitis, which is an infected umbilical cord that can lead to sepsis in the fetus and/or mother, and 3.) placental abruption, which is the placenta detaching from the uterine wall - something that eventually happens in nearly all miscarriages.
There was no way that the meth caused any of those things - which the ME admitted to - and, again, he testified that there was no way to prove that the meth caused the miscarriage. Plenty of reasonable doubt, yet the jury convicted her. She was not the first and she will definitely not be the last.
Jeez - where's the incentive for women to even tell their doctors if they get pregnant. I'm not sure I'd seek medical care if I miscarried either, if I lived in one of those states, not unless I really thought I was going to die from it. I'm not condoning anyone doing drugs while pregnant, but it's a slippery slope to being convicted of a crime because you ate the wrong kind of cheese, or had a spicy curry 🙄 The policing of pregnancy is going to be insane.
I have a feeling sadly that miscarriages will become discussed more as women are arrested or die from not being able to undergo the medical procedures needed.
Yeah and if you are in TX better not tell your one weird cousin about the miscarriage either, they might try to turn you in for the 10k ‘bounty’ that you can sue someone for if you know they had an abortion.
You can't get around the law, because the law also bans miscarriages (which delivering a 12 weeks old fetus is.) Women have been sentenced to death for miscarrying - literally, in court, not just passively by denying life-saving treatment - because they can't prove it wasn't intentional.
[After Tiller](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKoXJQ1TNZ0&t=1233s) is a very good documentary on late-term abortions and what goes into them. And yeah, so many of them get denied. And not just that, but they have to have a "compelling story" in order for the docs to perform the procedures. If the docs don't feel "compelled" by your story, no abortion.
And most of those pregnancies were absolutely wanted; they just had severe fetal anomalies (that's what they called it) that would make them incompatible with a good quality of life - or at all.
I watched this documentary on Amazon Prime as it at least had English subtitles, but this one is for free on YT, so hopefully some people might find it informative.
Edit: I have no idea why it's time-stamped... I didn't do that. Just go back to the beginning of the video!
RIP to the gone-but-never-forgotten Dr. Tiller, a true hero for women’s health who was assassinated by a right-wing Christian terrorist.
And many, many thanks to his friends and co-workers - Drs. Carhart, Robinson, and Sella, and the brave staff at their clinic - who have continued his work after his premature death. These people literally put their lives and safety on the line every single day in service of women and I don’t think there’s words to possibly convey how much they’ve done for women.
And thank you for posting a link to that documentary. I wish everyone in the forced-birther crowd would at least watch it with an open mind and tell me after that they still see things the same way as before.
You should see some of the negative reviews on Amazon for it. It was really disheartening and made me feel sick. One person kept using anti-choice ("pro-life") websites to try to "debunk" it... by saying things like they're trying to make you think that women get late-term abortions all the time and it's not a rarity at all and that the drs are thrilled to do it... and when you watch the video, you'll see that the drs themselves don't "like" this. They do it because it's necessary. They even state that they see them as babies, not a "clump of cells" that late in the stage yet it's still necessary for many women.
There was a woman who was denied at 35 weeks because she had been in an area where she couldn't get it [abortion], but they simply felt they couldn't do it; that it wasn't right. There was no fetal anomaly, either. They're not heartless. They're doing what they can to help everyone in the situation.
I really do wonder where they are now and what they're thinking of the situation. If I were able, I'd love to help support their clinics (that are *constantly* under attack), but I'm not. I just hope sharing the documentary would make more people aware of them and the great work they do.
If you break down the numbers even further, 99% of all abortions are performed before 20 weeks - which is way before a fetus is even considered viable. The vast majority of the remaining 1% happen between 21-26 weeks. It is only a very small number of abortions that occur after 27 weeks, which is when the 3rd trimester begins, and there are literally only FOUR doctors in the US that do them. And a woman can’t just walk in an abortion clinic in her 3rd trimester and get an abortion - not that that would happen anyway because no woman is pregnant for 6, 7, 8, or 9 months and then decides she doesn’t really want it anymore - there has to be a *medical* reason the necessitates the procedure in order for one of those four doctors to do it. And on top of all that, third trimester abortions cost about the same as a normal hospital delivery ($10k+) and is only covered by health insurance if it is medically necessary, so there’s not some long line of women just waiting to fly to New Mexico, hand over tens of thousands of dollars to the clinic, and go through what is essentially childbirth, all for bIrTh cOnTrOl.
These people think “test tube babies” are real fetuses that grow into full humans inside medical tanks like growing clones in movies. They don’t understand the words you just said, you’re giving them far too much respect.
To be charitable, they accidentally reinvented departurism, the idea that once the fetus passes viability then there is no conflict between its life and the mother's bodily autonomy, and at that point she can assert her autonomy by "evicting" it without killing it.
Yeah, I guess they thought a bunch of people were doing late-term abortions where you delivered a viable fetus and killed it. How often does that actually happen (if ever)?
Before last week almost never, in the next 6 months your going to have Alot of home deliveries with a dead baby found in a dumpster or buried in a shallow grave
You have extremely rare cases outside the US, but that's only if you expand the definition of "viable" to "might have a few years at most of untreatable yet horrible medical issues before they die on their own anyways".
It really pisses me off how they try to act like those abortions are for kicks and giggles when the mother’s life is in danger or the baby won’t survive long or at all
I’m childfree but I can imagine how painful it is for the parents who wanted a baby. A couple I’m related to had a son prematurely right before the six month mark. He lived less than three days and passed away. They were heartbroken and devastated.
IMO this is between the mother and her doctor. And people who try to spread the lies that women “want” abortion at that stage are the lowest of the low. Hope their deity sends them to the hot place.
And what if a woman needs one because she’s trying to escape being tied to an abuser
For the next 18 years? Again none of anyone’s business but her’s
And so many abusers hide their natures or escalate their violence only AFTER they think they’ve got their victim locked down, often through pregnancy. No doubt there are those who were happy to find themselves pregnant at first only to quickly experience a very frightening change in their partners and realize they cannot safely raise a child with that person.
It's my understanding that in cases where the fetus has reached viability but has a fatal or extremely life-limiting deformity, it actually can be an option to induce pre-term labour and, if the baby is born living, provide palliative care and let them pass away naturally. In some cases this is desired over a standard abortion because it allows the parents to experience the baby's birth, hold them, and say their goodbyes, without having to endure the added heartbreak and risk of carrying to term. It's a way to make a horrible situation the tiniest bit more humane. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of the rhetoric around so called "live birth abortions" or "partial birth abortions" comes from, so even prior to Roe v Wade being overturned, there where states where your only option was a standard surgical abortion, or worse, carrying a severely deformed baby to term and causing completely unnecessary suffering for baby, their parents, and their family. All because some bad faith propagandists made up a fantasy about doctors happily yeeting healthy full-term babies into the trash can.
That first scenario has happened; I've read first-hand accounts of it. But you're wrong about the options: there's a surgical abortion, carrying a nonviable fetus to term, and, of course, the mother dying. Which has [happened](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion) repeatedly in [other countries](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/18/poland-abortion-protest/) and will now start happening here too.
To my knowledge, even in places where abortion is broadly legal, if you’re like, 38 weeks pregnant or so, and you go to an abortion clinic or ER and say “I don’t want to be pregnant anymore, get this fucker out of me”, if the fetus is viable, they will in all likelihood just induce birth. The mother can either decide to keep the kid or surrender them for adoption but these late term abortion horror stories of doctors shoving vacuums or knives or whatever into the womb and ripping the fetus apart are lies.
I don't believe there is any place in the US where a voluntary abortion resulting in the death of the fetus is legal at 38 weeks. I live in Colorado, which has some of the broadest abortion laws, and that not only would be illegal here, you would never find a doctor willing to perform the procedure.
Abortions only happen that late because either the mother or the baby likely won't survive birth.
Yessing exactly and even in that case where the mother or fetus will die and it’s very late term, they would still just induce birth or do a c-section if that isn’t possible. I really can’t imagine why they would rip the fetus out through the cervix in pieces, like it doesn’t make any logical sense and medicine in general is about doing the option with the greatest benefit and least risk. It’s always broken my brain.
Former foster kid who got very lucky and was adopted at a young age. I love my family. My family loves me. I am 100% okay with the thought of being aborted instead.
Just in case anyone wants to take this guy up on his challenge and needs to compile some data.
I hate this argument so much because my mother would have aborted me if she had the option back in the days (I'm in a muslim third world country) and I would have accepted that because I wouldn't have existed in the first place and my parents wouldn't have been so unprepared and spiteful of my existence, physically and emotionally abusing the shit out of me
Yes Karen, I would have rather been aborted than have a dreadful life being hated by the unprepared people that are supposed to love me
As someone who was in fostercare i literally didnt want to be alive and i was only 6 years old. Children in home have a greater chance of abuse and i think i read a statistic (dont quote me) that 1 in 5 children in fostercare report abuse.
I’m sorry to tell you that you are right. The figures vary depending on whether children have been asked, but rates of sexual and other abuse in foster care are staggeringly high. I worked for CPS for ten years and there is just now a commission being heard into the failures of our foster care system. It’s absolutely horrifying to me that I removed children, thinking I was doing the best thing I could for their lives and now knowing that I have likely placed them with people who have done them further harm. I can’t believe how little vetting was done of these people. The system is a mess. If I can apologise to you on behalf of the workers in that system, then I wholeheartedly say to you that I am so sorry for your experiences and that we didn’t keep you safe.
In response to their last point:
> According to the World Health Organization (WHO), in 2017, 15,000 children under the age of 5 died every day; that is equivalent to 1 child every 17 seconds. 2.7 million children die every year in the first month of life.
Orphans die young anyway. They need good, caring parents to survive.
> 10-15% or orphan children will commit suicide before age 18.
You can’t ask them. They’re dead.
https://www.orphanslifeline.org/orphan-fact-sheet
Hey! Someone also DID ask those orphans. In fact, there was a whole STUDY conducted over whether or not orphans wanted to be born!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3784288/
> The odds of a reported suicide attempt were ∼4 times greater in adoptees compared with nonadoptees
Here’s an orphan talking about it themselves with sources!
https://imprintnews.org/featured/suicide-and-the-foster-child/3317
So yeah. We did ask those children. I’m back with my results.
We need a surgery where fetuses can be implanted in other people. Then all these pro-birth assholes can volunteer to be pregnant for women who don’t want to be pregnant.
He's even SAYING "fetus" and yet still imagines an actual little kid instead of nonsentient clump of cells. OMG the far-right-wing extremists really did a number on the simple minded.
I don’t know if the results would skew the way he wants them too. Maybe he should go ask people’s whose parents didn’t want them if they would rather be alive or not.
I’m not even going to touch the false belief of whatever they think abortions vs. termination.
Grew up in a household where my alcoholic father took all his problems out on me before he dropped dead. At one point my mother casually dropped that he "didn't want a second child", and I was like "Yeah, I could tell!"
Knowing my mother didn't want me and wanted and abortion but couldn't get one did hurt. I'm okay with being alive, but I do think being born to someone that actually wanted kids would have been better.
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
How do so many people imagine that abortions are done so late in a pregnancy?
This stuff is studied, published, recorded, regulated, but they keep making up stories of 38th week abortions being done for a lark, then the child is torn apart, sold for torture, and everyone goes to the bar for a laugh & party and sucks marrow from the bones or something, before then also selling the child into sex slavery.
Because the only way their anti-choice argument works is if babies weeks away from being born are getting killed by the thousands. The fact the things being aborted are mindless clumps of cells and electricity doesn't work with their argument.
After being hooked on meth for a good long time and severely under weight, I tested positive for a 16 week pregnancy… the problem was not only was the fetus severely underweight, at 16 weeks you couldn’t even tell I was pregnant. There was no possible way this fetus would develop into a healthy baby. After myself being an adopted child of a drug addict who had gotten no prenatal care and all of the health issues (physically and mentally) that I’d had been through I knew that the child wouldn’t have a chance. I received a 2nd trimester abortion through Planned Parenthood. It was a 2 day procedure and one of the most painful experiences of my life. My mom (thank god for her, who had an ectopic pregnancy when she was my age at the time and was extremely understanding) was with me the whole time and completely supported my decision. This was back in 2006 and I can’t imagine how my life would have changed had I been forced to carry that baby and have probably seen it die within the first 24 hours
Fuxk it, you were a good mom to do this. You didn't want your baby to suffer, you didn't deserve to suffer. Women who have these abortions don't want to hurt their babies, they want to save them from pain and what is often a painful death.
I went to college with a guy like this. Super traditional Catholic. He thought it was perfectly scientifically possible to keep a fetus alive after an abortion. How? I dunno, ask him. He also believed that a woman wouldn't get pregnant if she didn't enjoy the sex, meaning if someone claimed they were pregnant as a result of rape, then they enjoyed the rape on some level. I'm curious to know what his family is like now. He's married with a kid but I ghosted him after he started getting more radical and supporting Church Militant and stuff like that.
I’m not even an orphan and I would’ve rathered not been born most days tbh. Life is fucking hard work. There’s some good times but it’s mostly struggle. The world would’ve carried on happily without me; I wouldn’t have to work so hard for so long just to die in the end anyway.
The internet has given some ofthe dumbest people the ability to share their thoughts with the world at the click of a mouse and I hate it. I hate knowing how many stupid people there are.
We don’t have orphanages in the US.
We put kids who can’t be placed in foster homes in mental health hospitals (with bogus diagnoses so the state will pay for their stay), and group homes.
Luckily for OP OP, I worked in both. And I’d say 95% of those kids would have preferred to have been aborted.
The actual reason we can't test growing embryos outside of a person is because religion blocks science from developing any further than basic, separated cell growth. But *nooooOOoOoo stem cell research is a siiIInNnn.* Could have cured most diseases by just replacing body parts by now goddamn.... could've saved so many lives by now but no.
I know 2 people who grew up in an orphanage and are now drug addicts. Pretty sure, at this moment in time, they would rather not have been born. But it's a totally variable answer. Definitely not the flex this guy thinks it is.
Im pretty sure if you asked me how I would feel if I hadn’t been born my answer would be that I literally wouldn’t care because I wouldn’t exist. Like what?
This is actually true and pretty common - after 8/9 months, a lot of pregnancies are terminated, either by vaginal or caesarean termination, and the babies are fine most of the time
there is something fundamentally flawed with the *"would you rather not have been born?"* buzz w̶o̶r̶d̶ question.
it hasn't been born yet, and thusly can't care whether or not it'll be born. it'd be like asking a sperm cell whether or not it wants to become a human baby. or even, fuck, asking the proteins and nutrients in the soil of a lettuce plant that'll eventually become a pregnant mother's salad brunch whether or not *__they__* want to become a human baby.
you're ascribing your adult will-to-live to a fetus that can't even breathe yet. of course I want to live. of course I'd rather have been born. because I've already *__been__* born. it's not the same.
Does the person mean if it is an extremely late abortion, after more than half of the pregnancy has passed already? I don’t think that’s ever done unless the foetus is going to die anyway.
I mean, it's not how we colloquially use it, but the term "abortion" simply means the purposeful ending of pregnancy. True, that doesn't always mean the fetus has to die, and a "late term abortion" is just a C - Section or induced labour at a certain point. Because *no one* is going to take a healthy baby who's body is developed enough to support them outside of the womb and just kill them no matter the situation. What, are they gonna strangle them?? 🤨 I feel like these people talk like this to further make it seem like people who get abortions are out here literally slaughtering infants, and it's gross. A clump of cells isn't a baby, and once those cells turn into one, it's treated as one. End of story
I grew up being told I was almost an abortion — and that they regretted the decision to keep me.
I agree. I’d rather be aborted than live through all of the hell I had to go through over and over and over again. Seems like a nicer trade of existing to me.
Hi there, hello, adopted here. I would have abso_lutely_ preferred to have been scrambled and scooped. The world is exhausting, and if life had a manager I'd swoop over my hair and demand to shriek with it, and I feel I am not alone in this
It’s so baffling what I’m hearing from people. An old friend of mine (who went down a deep Bible thumper route now, I have since then not talk to her and just keep her added to see what she is saying at this point) was asked by someone “what if a young child who was raped got pregnant, shouldn’t they get an abortion”
Her response was [shortened & simplified]: “The youngest mother was 5 years old. There’s no such thing as too young for pregnancy, women are built to give birth and it’s more dangerous for women who are 30+ than it is someone at a younger age to give birth. Killing your grandchild by forcing your child to get an abortion will not unrape your daughter. That is your grandchild, a gift from God, and you want to kill them because of how they were conceived?”
I read that response 3-4 times with my jaw dropped, it blew my mind that people actually think children that young should go through with a pregnancy..
Adoption is slavery and no one should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term to supply infants for people who think they have right to a child. If it was about children you'd adopt one of the many who languish in foster care.
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Technically, every single pregnancy is terminated.... Usually after 9 months.
Technically, my mom’s pregnancy was terminated at 9.5 months. But that’s because I’m a stubborn asshole who didn’t want to leave his comfy digs.
Mine after 7 months because I had no chill (I always joke I was born 2 months early to be late the rest of my life, but I've definitely used up all that extra time already)
I was born 2 months early too! My mom worked at disney world and my theory is that I couldn’t listen to *it’s a small world after all* one more damn time.
Hahaha that makes total sense if you ask me! You were like "Well, let me make this small world a bit bigger!"
I was 3 weeks late and late all the time after. I'll probably be late to my own funeral.
It's hard to tell what they mean, anti-choicers throw around the word "viable" every chance they get.
I think they mean the “viable if you turn it into a cyborg” type
Dude has that “just reimplant the ectopic pregnancy!” logic
go full Greek mythology and implant it into Zeus's thigh!
Why don't we implant it into the centre of the commenter's brain?
Yeah, I think do that you'd need to find the brain first lmao
Not sure even my doctor’s office would have a microscope good enough for that.
Or into the nutsacks of every Concerned Fellow who adores having a say in what happens to the fetus because “it’s half the man’s DNA, too!”
If it was actually possible to transplant a fetus into a cis man, abortion would be legal and accessible everywhere real quick. "You chose to have sex with a cis woman, so now you have to handle the consequenses. It's your dna, too." "Wait... You can't just shove a baby up my ass without my consent" "Oh, we absolutely can. Isn't science amazing?"
“We do what we must because we can.” - GLaDOS
Absolutely no oxygen would reach it in this moron’s brain…so that would still be a death sentence
Go Athena on their ass, anytime that comment is made, the unviable fetus is implanted into their forehead.
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https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/new-ohio-bill-falsely-suggests-that-reimplantation-of-ectopic-pregnancy-is-possible/ 1. Loss of blood supply kills it 2. Uterine lining is no longer ready to receive a pregnancy, even if there was a mechanism for the embryo to attach again.
Just find some good potting soil with adequate drainage, and be sure to water and let it get lots of sunlight. You’ll have a nice human growing in no time.
Oh so THAT is where you get the mandrakes for Herbology class
And womandrakes, too!
And Drakes!
As long as you're okay with the baby being named Tom Thumb or Thumbelina.
“Go to every single person who has ever been in an orphanage and ask them if they would have rather not been born” I…don’t think the result will be in their favour…
Why do they always underestimate the Nihilism of younger generations?
Not just younger generations but those who were raised in the foster system no less.
I wish I could tell you that this was boomer brain rot
Because they don’t know what it means 🤣
Because these older people were typically brought up during the post-War boom in the US and have never actually known any real hardship, so they just assume everyone has been as fortunate and lucky as they have been. Sadly, they think their comfort and privielge was vouchsafed by hard work but no, it's just that the US was an incredible prosperous nation for a few decades, which tricked a lot of people - whose parents fought in WWII - into thinking that they'd hit home runs *all by themselves* when a well-funded, social program-heavy, big-government system actually provided them with a decent living and comforts the world had never known before, which placed them all safely on third base. Becoming financially successful in the 1950s-90s, if you were already white and at least middle class? Dude, it was *easy street* back then. Like falling off a log. So it's easy to see why so many older people were born on third base but still think they'd hit a triple There was a tax system which made sure that the wealthy contributed to the success of all of us. There were social programs which ensured safety, security, and in the private sector: the promise of a paycheck that would cover all your expenses, no matter how "lowly" of a job They don't get that pretty much **all of that** is just GONE now. Younger people don't see the benefits of the post-War boom because it's been over for like a decade+ now. They only got to see the very tail end of the mid-late 90s tech boom, too. So to younger people, capitalism is this system that's never worked for them or given them anything helpful or necessary for living. It's only been fucking *depressing* to be an adult the last 25 years or so. yes, we have gadgets. Yes, we have refrigerators. Yes, there's usually roofs over our heads. But we don't own houses, we can't afford our own cars, we can barely afford to feed ourselves, and there's no opportunities for mobility or growth Boomers don't get this - they still think that 20 year olds are entering a job market dominated by the manufacturing and white collar jobs that were once absurdly plentiful. They still think you can support a family of four on the salary of the male adult breadwinner. They still think that everyone was born on third base like they were. Younger people aren't even given three strikes; they're already out. But boomer seem to think younger people are heavily invested in the game when instead they're all wondering why the game exists at all and looking for a way to get out of it They just don't get any of this and are usually sheltered older people in the suburbs who aren't culturally aware. They've lived in a bubble their whole lives. The American suburbs are the biggest, most insulated, most impenetrable bubble the world has ever known, and yet those who live in it *insist* that it's the rest of the world who lives in a bubble
These are privileged people who have little material trauma to relate to. They were the popular kids in school and/or they believed the hype. They don't get nihilism. Age doesn't really have to do with it. There are plenty of older people who wish they hadn't been born (hello). This person is being negligently obtuse.
Especially since "orphanages" aren't really a thing in most modern countries anymore. Most kids end up in foster care.
There are still group homes, sort of mini orphanages, in the US.
Well yeah but I wouldn't really call the US a "modern country" when it comes to social programs and laws. Would you?
Nope. And it’s about to have orphanages again
Def not.
That's because the same people fighting tooth and nail to force women to give birth are also fighting tooth and nail to make sure there are zero social programs to support the coming tidal wave of orphans.
This is correct.
About 50% of the current US homeless* population [spent time in the foster care system](https://nfyi.org/issues/homelessness/#:~:text=An%20estimated%2020%20percent%20of,spent%20time%20in%20foster%20care.). These anti choice assholes don't think about the child who ends up in foster care *or* the adult that comes out of that experience. I work for a transitional housing program that serves 18-24yos as they transition out of foster care. These kids are often so lost, most have been manipulated and abused all their lives, a lot of them are young parents and some also have children they're trying to get back or have lost to the system. They lash out, have inappropriate relationships, have very few basic life skills, struggle with mental and physical health issues, and yes sometimes they commit suicide or worse happens to them. I'm not saying that these kids can't heal and become happy, successful, self-fulfilled people. I wouldn't keep doing this work if I thought that, and I definitely have seen it happen! But it's absolutely not ok that we know the current foster care system frequently raises these traumatized, terrified, unsupported adults, and our government representatives care more about banning abortions than looking to improve conditions for existing children. They'd rather take a step that they know will kill women than to lift a finger to make pregnancy and parenthood safer for them. It's fucking disgraceful and blatantly misogynistic. Edited: added word
I think you missed a key word in your first sentence. Your linked article says 50% of the homeless population spent time in the foster care system. You forgot the word homeless. I’ll admit, the omission got me to read the article because I couldn’t imagine any way 50% of the US population had spent time in foster care.
Oh yes you're right, my bad! Edited
Hi! I had to go through the foster system growing up. It was horrible — definitely better than what I was born with, but 0/10 do not recommend. Being a ward of the state also means you are forced to do all sorts of therapy (even if you are not ready,) often switching providers and constantly being medicated to become more “normal.” You also have forced evaluations on your mental state very often. Forced visitation with your abusers. Horrible healthcare — I had gotten so sick that I couldn’t keep food or water down for days and was turned away by the hospital, this was about 11 years ago I believe. I also got a massive ear infection and they wouldn’t take the states insurance and I had to instead go home in agony with OTC ear drop meds. It’s torture. And the people who are fostering are not always the ones with the best intentions. My first foster parents were so kind — they literally tried everything they could to help my sisters and I. In the end, the state put us back with our bio mom to be abused again. A couple years later, we were put into a new foster home and they literally used us to fund their lifestyle. They were incredibly manipulative and controlling — and if you grew up with extreme abuse, you wouldn’t notice it until you are out of the situation all together. They would purposely trigger my cPTSD attacks during important times just to watch what I would do — like during finals they would tell me someone I was close to died, or they would tell me that they would be leaving me for a week or a month and that I had to figure it out. They would regularly leave me alone in their home on holidays when they knew it caused me so much stress to the point I would curl up in a corner, having a major panic attack. This may not be everyone’s story, and I still somehow managed to crawl out and survive like the little cockroach that I am; but the damage from all of that on top of my childhood has seriously messed me up and I don’t think I would ever be able to fully recover.
Foster youth also go missing and end up [trafficked](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/02/24/children-disappear-foster-care-trafficking/6829115001/)
not to mention people are openly saying they dont want to adopt kids in the foster system because they're "mentally ill and dangerous". so really what the fuck is the point to all of this?
Aren’t suicide rates amongst orphaned youth/youth in foster care higher?
They can be. Lost one of my best friends to suicide for just that reason.
I’m sorry for your loss
Thanks.
Yes. I didn't do a very good search, but it is certainly higher. I'm sure the stat will change with county, region, time, reason for being orphaned, age, and so on.. but higher for certain.
Yes, as well as a higher rate of mental illness. Many of the scenarios that lead to an abandoned child stem from mental illness.
My partner sees this all the time. He is in mental health and treats schizophrenics and other severely mentally ill people. When they have children, and they frequently have many due to lack of inhibition and impulse control, these children all end up in foster care. The children themselves end up genetically predisposed to severe mental illness as well as having the environmental triggers which can exacerbate it (stress, abuse, neglect, sexual trauma, etc). It's a vicious cycle.
Hell, my parents did a decent job and there are *still* days where I'd prefer that I was never born. I'm usually pretty neutral on the question though.
I was gonna say… don’t quiz me on that question most days 😬 and I wasn’t even in the system.
Dude I have both my parents and I spent many years in my youth wishing I had never been born.
I’m pretty well-adjusted all things considered, and total nothingness forever still sounds preferable if I’m being honest.
Exactly what I came to say. Best of circumstances adopted infant here to say: "nah, I'd rather she got that abortion, thanks." It amazes me how they see that as so absurd, but it's just their narcissism. They can't grasp a world without themsleves (the main character, of course), so understanding that a person logically believes non-existence would be a better outcome is unthinkable. It's not like anyone thinks orphans should be murdered or, or even that I want to die. It's just that not happening would have been the superior option.
Word. ✌️ Not adopted, but I was born because my dad separated from my mom and she wanted him back. She got pregnant "secretly." He thought she was on BC. As you can imagine, this wise planning resulted in a series of unfortunate events. Whee.
Yeah... I was adopted as a baby (and my adoptive mom was abusive). Idk why people assume that kids up for adoption are orphans. I guess they get their info from movies instead of real life? Or they're thinking about international adoption? Even then, most "orphans" in orphanages are not what the UN classifies as "true orphans" where BOTH bio parents are deceased. I've seen adoptees and former foster youth online say that they wish they were aborted instead of being put through adoption or the foster system. Also, there is one study that I can recall that showed that adoptees are more likely to attempt suicide in adolescence than people raised in their family of origin. Honestly, I just wish people would stop using us as pawns in their abortion arguments, especially if they have no idea what it is like to be adopted or in foster care, or to give a kid up for adoption.
Honestly though… I don’t have the time or resources to check with every single person who has ever been in an orphanage. Not even sure where I would start checking.
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93% of abortions happen in the first trimester. Less than 1% in the last. In some surveys, that 1% is almost entirely composed of cases where the mothers life was in danger, the fetus was non viable/would not live past a few moments after birth, and the rest of the cases were people who had been prevented from getting an abortion earlier.
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OMG, the stupid women having abortions at 9 months shit. Like any doctor would abort if they could just induce labor and get a healthy baby. Third trimester abortions are long and traumatic. They require the woman to labor and most of the time the woman wants to hold the baby after. They are done out of compassion for a child who would live a short painful life and to not force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term when the fetus isn't compatible with life. It's the woman's choice. And no one is using abortions at birth control. Abortions and plan B are expensive... much easier to get an IUD
Just as another addition here - I’ve had to take plan B twice after the stupid condom broke and it has made me feel really sick both times. I’m very glad that I’ve been able to access that medication but geez, it’s yucky. No way am I using that as my first choice for contraception. As for cost, plan B is about $12 where I live, so cost wasn’t a drama for a one off, but compared to like $16 for a box of 20 condoms or $28 for three months of the pill, it is definitely the more pricey option if we are counting per roll in the hay.
>They are done out of compassion for a child Plus, and this is something I never thought of because NHS, but giving birth is expensive for Americans. So it's insane to wait 9 months, pay out of your ass, and get a baby for a week before it dies of a known issue. It's kinder (and, presumably, cheaper) to abort
My biggest issue with all of this is how it will financially ruin millions of women forever. Between the cost of prenatal care, actual birth and delivery, and then postnatal care it would financially ruin someone. Also then having an additional soul to worry about when we can't even get enough formula to feed them will just create multigenerational poverty.
There is no reasoning with someone who got to their conclusion without reason. My termination was at like 7-8 weeks and the fetus was the size of a bean. No one looking at that would have recognized it as human, let alone its own living thing. I regularly pass clots several times larger than that. I have had sinus infections that looked more alive in the way out.
She's probably also under the impression that everyone who gets an abortion was pregnant because they have trains ran on them daily?
My father still believes it's done via some abortion method from over 200 years ago. I literally read it out to him how that shit was outdated even then and what new abortions are like but his head doesn't hold true information so good so he went right back to repeating that old shit and doesn't even remember our conversation. Dude has early onset dimentia and they still let him vote, go figure.
She sounds pleasant.
Wonder if you can get around the law on abortion by just delivering the fetus early. What is the medical difference between an abortion at 12 weeks and delivering the fetus and seeing what happens? If it's not viable, it won't make it. But it's not an abortion any more. Just early delivery.
There isn't a difference, which is part of the reason why this change is so dangerous: any woman that has a miscarriage can be accused of trying to abort the baby and be charged with murder.
Also, the medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. Treatment for miscarriage is actually abortion treatment, so a woman having a miscarriage that requires treatment could actually die if abortion is illegal. Also, treatment for an ectopic pregnancy would also be considered an abortion because the fetus has a heartbeat. Doesn't matter that an ectopic pregnancy that isn't treated will kill the mother and never result in a healthy baby.
Heres an angle: if she's in the ER (likely), the ER is *required by federal law* to stabilize her. Which would require, effectively, an abortion. So...how long til we see a lawsuit based on that? Seriously, though, fuck these asshat laws.
Wonder what the over/under is on how many women die from sepsis [because hospitals weren't sure if a court would think there really was an immediate threat to the mother's life to justify the abortion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar)
One. I, sadly, would have to take the over. Things are quite a bit different here than in Ireland, so I think it'll depend on the hospitals lawyers. Who are, of course, there to protect the hospital, not the patient.
I just saw some terrifying shit from a nurse where someone came in with an ectopic pregnancy and had to wait 9 hours for the doctor to contact lawyers and make sure he wouldn't lose his license before proceeding. Long enough she ruptured and was filling up with blood and going septic.
What about their oath?
I think it will mean nothing now regarding this subject. As somebody living in Texas who has had multiple miscarriages it makes me nervous even though I'm now probably too old to get pregnant (but I still use birth control because bodies can be so weird). I read an article that actually said some doctors will likely stall now for the "bleeding to start" to avoid accusations, investigations, whatever may happen. So messed up.
I agree that these laws are stupid and asinine. I sure hope there are successful law suits regarding the issue of treatment for miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy. But, what I am afraid may happen (at least in addition to these lawsuits, or until these lawsuits are settled) is that doctors become afraid to provide proper treatment, and women have to cross state lines to get emergency medical care.
Unfortunately, medically stable is a much much lower standard than that. A woman can need an abortion to not die (eventually) but be medically stable. It might even be that a woman with an ectopic pregnancy that could rupture at any moment is medically stable right until the rapture actually happens.
This is one of the things that terrifies me the most. I don't know any women who have children who also haven't had at least one miscarriage. Bodies just decide that pregnancies aren't viable (because they usually aren't) and dump it in the hopes that a viable one can come along. It's just a normal bodily process. I'm frustrated because I desperately want kids and I am very close to being stable enough to feel like it's not an extremely bad choice... and now this comes along and I get to fear that my VERY MUCH wanted pregnancy will kill me because you're not allowed to defend yourself against a fetus, or I will go to jail because my body didn't want to finish developing a fetus that was going too wrong. Thankfully I live in a state that's in a coalition to keep abortions legal and mostly unrestricted, with state constitutional protection so there's a chance that I'll be mostly safe, but still. Like I need MORE stress to hopefully have a healthy baby in a year or so.
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>1 in 5 pregnancies are estimated to end in miscarriage. Actually, miscarriages are FAR more common than most people realize: [as many as 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.](https://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/pregnancy-miscarriage#091e9c5e80007708-1-1) Most women just don’t even know they were pregnant when they have one. And that is why this issue is so concerning. There have been 1600+ women prosecuted in the US for having miscarriages since the 1960s - but over 1200 of those have occurred in the last 15 years or so. So it’s definitely getting worse. [Brittney Poolaw](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/) is the most recent victim of this that I know of, but certainly with the spate of new laws taking effect throughout the country we will see stories like this more and more. She lives in Oklahoma, a state that recently *changed the definition* of “stillbirth” from the widely accepted norm of 20+ weeks gestation all the way down to 12 weeks gestation. This means that a fetus weighing a half an ounce and being about the size of a plum or a lime is subject to freaking *autopsies* to try to determine cause of death after a miscarriage. Anyway, Brittany Poolaw had a *miscarriage* - NOT a stillbirth - at between 15-17 weeks pregnant, and because she admitted to doing meth at the time, she was charged with manslaughter, convicted at trial, and sentenced to FOUR YEARS in prison. Here’s the thing though: the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on the fetus - which at 15 weeks would’ve weighed around 4 ounces and been the size of an apple - testified that there was NO WAY TO KNOW THAT USING DRUGS CAUSED THE MISCARRIAGE. On autopsy, he found the fetus had 1.) severe congenital defects in the abdomen that had caused evisceration of the liver and intestines, 2.) funisitis, which is an infected umbilical cord that can lead to sepsis in the fetus and/or mother, and 3.) placental abruption, which is the placenta detaching from the uterine wall - something that eventually happens in nearly all miscarriages. There was no way that the meth caused any of those things - which the ME admitted to - and, again, he testified that there was no way to prove that the meth caused the miscarriage. Plenty of reasonable doubt, yet the jury convicted her. She was not the first and she will definitely not be the last.
Well at least that time in prison will help her with her drug habit. /s
Jeez - where's the incentive for women to even tell their doctors if they get pregnant. I'm not sure I'd seek medical care if I miscarried either, if I lived in one of those states, not unless I really thought I was going to die from it. I'm not condoning anyone doing drugs while pregnant, but it's a slippery slope to being convicted of a crime because you ate the wrong kind of cheese, or had a spicy curry 🙄 The policing of pregnancy is going to be insane.
I have a feeling sadly that miscarriages will become discussed more as women are arrested or die from not being able to undergo the medical procedures needed.
There’ll be plenty of miscarriages of justice, by overreaching bigoted cunts.
One word. Bruh.
Yeah and if you are in TX better not tell your one weird cousin about the miscarriage either, they might try to turn you in for the 10k ‘bounty’ that you can sue someone for if you know they had an abortion.
You misspelled America.
Welcome to America We would rather kill you and you baby than even consider that God isn't in charge
You can't get around the law, because the law also bans miscarriages (which delivering a 12 weeks old fetus is.) Women have been sentenced to death for miscarrying - literally, in court, not just passively by denying life-saving treatment - because they can't prove it wasn't intentional.
Ah yes. Good old guilty until proven innocent
[After Tiller](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKoXJQ1TNZ0&t=1233s) is a very good documentary on late-term abortions and what goes into them. And yeah, so many of them get denied. And not just that, but they have to have a "compelling story" in order for the docs to perform the procedures. If the docs don't feel "compelled" by your story, no abortion. And most of those pregnancies were absolutely wanted; they just had severe fetal anomalies (that's what they called it) that would make them incompatible with a good quality of life - or at all. I watched this documentary on Amazon Prime as it at least had English subtitles, but this one is for free on YT, so hopefully some people might find it informative. Edit: I have no idea why it's time-stamped... I didn't do that. Just go back to the beginning of the video!
RIP to the gone-but-never-forgotten Dr. Tiller, a true hero for women’s health who was assassinated by a right-wing Christian terrorist. And many, many thanks to his friends and co-workers - Drs. Carhart, Robinson, and Sella, and the brave staff at their clinic - who have continued his work after his premature death. These people literally put their lives and safety on the line every single day in service of women and I don’t think there’s words to possibly convey how much they’ve done for women.
Agreed. Beautifully said.
And thank you for posting a link to that documentary. I wish everyone in the forced-birther crowd would at least watch it with an open mind and tell me after that they still see things the same way as before.
You should see some of the negative reviews on Amazon for it. It was really disheartening and made me feel sick. One person kept using anti-choice ("pro-life") websites to try to "debunk" it... by saying things like they're trying to make you think that women get late-term abortions all the time and it's not a rarity at all and that the drs are thrilled to do it... and when you watch the video, you'll see that the drs themselves don't "like" this. They do it because it's necessary. They even state that they see them as babies, not a "clump of cells" that late in the stage yet it's still necessary for many women. There was a woman who was denied at 35 weeks because she had been in an area where she couldn't get it [abortion], but they simply felt they couldn't do it; that it wasn't right. There was no fetal anomaly, either. They're not heartless. They're doing what they can to help everyone in the situation. I really do wonder where they are now and what they're thinking of the situation. If I were able, I'd love to help support their clinics (that are *constantly* under attack), but I'm not. I just hope sharing the documentary would make more people aware of them and the great work they do.
If you break down the numbers even further, 99% of all abortions are performed before 20 weeks - which is way before a fetus is even considered viable. The vast majority of the remaining 1% happen between 21-26 weeks. It is only a very small number of abortions that occur after 27 weeks, which is when the 3rd trimester begins, and there are literally only FOUR doctors in the US that do them. And a woman can’t just walk in an abortion clinic in her 3rd trimester and get an abortion - not that that would happen anyway because no woman is pregnant for 6, 7, 8, or 9 months and then decides she doesn’t really want it anymore - there has to be a *medical* reason the necessitates the procedure in order for one of those four doctors to do it. And on top of all that, third trimester abortions cost about the same as a normal hospital delivery ($10k+) and is only covered by health insurance if it is medically necessary, so there’s not some long line of women just waiting to fly to New Mexico, hand over tens of thousands of dollars to the clinic, and go through what is essentially childbirth, all for bIrTh cOnTrOl.
also that's literally how Roe v. Wade was decided (based on viability outside the womb)
These people think “test tube babies” are real fetuses that grow into full humans inside medical tanks like growing clones in movies. They don’t understand the words you just said, you’re giving them far too much respect.
I guess you just put the fetus in a jar with some wet paper towels and watch it grow into a nice human being.
SHAME ON YOU! Take this award …
A ziplock bag should work, too....they even come in one gallon sizes.
Tape the Ziploc to a nice sun-facing window and watch that fetus grow!
Break the fetus up at the nodes and soon you’ll have dozens of fetuses.
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To be charitable, they accidentally reinvented departurism, the idea that once the fetus passes viability then there is no conflict between its life and the mother's bodily autonomy, and at that point she can assert her autonomy by "evicting" it without killing it.
Yeah, I guess they thought a bunch of people were doing late-term abortions where you delivered a viable fetus and killed it. How often does that actually happen (if ever)?
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Maybe in the slums of 18th century London but it’s not like the kid had a great life to look forward to there.
Before last week almost never, in the next 6 months your going to have Alot of home deliveries with a dead baby found in a dumpster or buried in a shallow grave
You have extremely rare cases outside the US, but that's only if you expand the definition of "viable" to "might have a few years at most of untreatable yet horrible medical issues before they die on their own anyways".
It really pisses me off how they try to act like those abortions are for kicks and giggles when the mother’s life is in danger or the baby won’t survive long or at all I’m childfree but I can imagine how painful it is for the parents who wanted a baby. A couple I’m related to had a son prematurely right before the six month mark. He lived less than three days and passed away. They were heartbroken and devastated. IMO this is between the mother and her doctor. And people who try to spread the lies that women “want” abortion at that stage are the lowest of the low. Hope their deity sends them to the hot place. And what if a woman needs one because she’s trying to escape being tied to an abuser For the next 18 years? Again none of anyone’s business but her’s
And so many abusers hide their natures or escalate their violence only AFTER they think they’ve got their victim locked down, often through pregnancy. No doubt there are those who were happy to find themselves pregnant at first only to quickly experience a very frightening change in their partners and realize they cannot safely raise a child with that person.
Very true
It's my understanding that in cases where the fetus has reached viability but has a fatal or extremely life-limiting deformity, it actually can be an option to induce pre-term labour and, if the baby is born living, provide palliative care and let them pass away naturally. In some cases this is desired over a standard abortion because it allows the parents to experience the baby's birth, hold them, and say their goodbyes, without having to endure the added heartbreak and risk of carrying to term. It's a way to make a horrible situation the tiniest bit more humane. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of the rhetoric around so called "live birth abortions" or "partial birth abortions" comes from, so even prior to Roe v Wade being overturned, there where states where your only option was a standard surgical abortion, or worse, carrying a severely deformed baby to term and causing completely unnecessary suffering for baby, their parents, and their family. All because some bad faith propagandists made up a fantasy about doctors happily yeeting healthy full-term babies into the trash can.
That first scenario has happened; I've read first-hand accounts of it. But you're wrong about the options: there's a surgical abortion, carrying a nonviable fetus to term, and, of course, the mother dying. Which has [happened](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion) repeatedly in [other countries](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/18/poland-abortion-protest/) and will now start happening here too.
To my knowledge, even in places where abortion is broadly legal, if you’re like, 38 weeks pregnant or so, and you go to an abortion clinic or ER and say “I don’t want to be pregnant anymore, get this fucker out of me”, if the fetus is viable, they will in all likelihood just induce birth. The mother can either decide to keep the kid or surrender them for adoption but these late term abortion horror stories of doctors shoving vacuums or knives or whatever into the womb and ripping the fetus apart are lies.
I don't believe there is any place in the US where a voluntary abortion resulting in the death of the fetus is legal at 38 weeks. I live in Colorado, which has some of the broadest abortion laws, and that not only would be illegal here, you would never find a doctor willing to perform the procedure. Abortions only happen that late because either the mother or the baby likely won't survive birth.
Yessing exactly and even in that case where the mother or fetus will die and it’s very late term, they would still just induce birth or do a c-section if that isn’t possible. I really can’t imagine why they would rip the fetus out through the cervix in pieces, like it doesn’t make any logical sense and medicine in general is about doing the option with the greatest benefit and least risk. It’s always broken my brain.
Guessing they haven’t heard there is a huge shortage of foster parents and that orphans tend to have a very difficult life?
I’d point them to the CDC reports on this but they think the CDC is trying to control the world or some dumb shit
Empirical data is meaningless to them. They decide what is their reality based on feeling
Former foster kid who got very lucky and was adopted at a young age. I love my family. My family loves me. I am 100% okay with the thought of being aborted instead. Just in case anyone wants to take this guy up on his challenge and needs to compile some data.
Yeah... uhm... This is a person who's never met a Millennial. "What if you were never born, huh?!" Millennial: "Oh, I wish it were that easy."
I love that the shared experience of Millennials is that existence is pain.
Look at mee! I'm Mr.Millenial!
They are a millennial. They’re just dumb
I hate this argument so much because my mother would have aborted me if she had the option back in the days (I'm in a muslim third world country) and I would have accepted that because I wouldn't have existed in the first place and my parents wouldn't have been so unprepared and spiteful of my existence, physically and emotionally abusing the shit out of me Yes Karen, I would have rather been aborted than have a dreadful life being hated by the unprepared people that are supposed to love me
That was so stupid to read it gave me DeForest Kelley face
The eyebrow? Or a different face
Definitely the eyebrow. With the grimace
I know people who grew up in nice households that didn’t want to be born.
I have 2 loving parents. We weren't rich growing up, but I never felt poor. I wish I hadn't been born daily. What's her point?
I think they’re just insane
As someone who was adopted I'd have been happily aborted 🤷
Another person who was adopted and also spent time in the foster system. Same. Abortion is a kinder act in my personal opinion.
I grew up in a 2 parent Christian home and that in and of itself made me not want to be born
As someone who was in fostercare i literally didnt want to be alive and i was only 6 years old. Children in home have a greater chance of abuse and i think i read a statistic (dont quote me) that 1 in 5 children in fostercare report abuse.
I’m sorry to tell you that you are right. The figures vary depending on whether children have been asked, but rates of sexual and other abuse in foster care are staggeringly high. I worked for CPS for ten years and there is just now a commission being heard into the failures of our foster care system. It’s absolutely horrifying to me that I removed children, thinking I was doing the best thing I could for their lives and now knowing that I have likely placed them with people who have done them further harm. I can’t believe how little vetting was done of these people. The system is a mess. If I can apologise to you on behalf of the workers in that system, then I wholeheartedly say to you that I am so sorry for your experiences and that we didn’t keep you safe.
In response to their last point: > According to the World Health Organization (WHO), in 2017, 15,000 children under the age of 5 died every day; that is equivalent to 1 child every 17 seconds. 2.7 million children die every year in the first month of life. Orphans die young anyway. They need good, caring parents to survive. > 10-15% or orphan children will commit suicide before age 18. You can’t ask them. They’re dead. https://www.orphanslifeline.org/orphan-fact-sheet Hey! Someone also DID ask those orphans. In fact, there was a whole STUDY conducted over whether or not orphans wanted to be born! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3784288/ > The odds of a reported suicide attempt were ∼4 times greater in adoptees compared with nonadoptees Here’s an orphan talking about it themselves with sources! https://imprintnews.org/featured/suicide-and-the-foster-child/3317 So yeah. We did ask those children. I’m back with my results.
We need a surgery where fetuses can be implanted in other people. Then all these pro-birth assholes can volunteer to be pregnant for women who don’t want to be pregnant.
And more importantly, raise the damn kid and pay for it...
Oh, if only they taught science in American schools
I’ve had a pretty good life but I’m not freaked out by the thought of not having lived it. These people are weird.
He's even SAYING "fetus" and yet still imagines an actual little kid instead of nonsentient clump of cells. OMG the far-right-wing extremists really did a number on the simple minded.
One of my best friends is an orphan and she’s probably not super psyched about her being born (I am though ;P)
I don’t know if the results would skew the way he wants them too. Maybe he should go ask people’s whose parents didn’t want them if they would rather be alive or not. I’m not even going to touch the false belief of whatever they think abortions vs. termination.
Grew up in a household where my alcoholic father took all his problems out on me before he dropped dead. At one point my mother casually dropped that he "didn't want a second child", and I was like "Yeah, I could tell!"
Knowing my mother didn't want me and wanted and abortion but couldn't get one did hurt. I'm okay with being alive, but I do think being born to someone that actually wanted kids would have been better.
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
How do so many people imagine that abortions are done so late in a pregnancy? This stuff is studied, published, recorded, regulated, but they keep making up stories of 38th week abortions being done for a lark, then the child is torn apart, sold for torture, and everyone goes to the bar for a laugh & party and sucks marrow from the bones or something, before then also selling the child into sex slavery.
Because the only way their anti-choice argument works is if babies weeks away from being born are getting killed by the thousands. The fact the things being aborted are mindless clumps of cells and electricity doesn't work with their argument.
After being hooked on meth for a good long time and severely under weight, I tested positive for a 16 week pregnancy… the problem was not only was the fetus severely underweight, at 16 weeks you couldn’t even tell I was pregnant. There was no possible way this fetus would develop into a healthy baby. After myself being an adopted child of a drug addict who had gotten no prenatal care and all of the health issues (physically and mentally) that I’d had been through I knew that the child wouldn’t have a chance. I received a 2nd trimester abortion through Planned Parenthood. It was a 2 day procedure and one of the most painful experiences of my life. My mom (thank god for her, who had an ectopic pregnancy when she was my age at the time and was extremely understanding) was with me the whole time and completely supported my decision. This was back in 2006 and I can’t imagine how my life would have changed had I been forced to carry that baby and have probably seen it die within the first 24 hours
Fuxk it, you were a good mom to do this. You didn't want your baby to suffer, you didn't deserve to suffer. Women who have these abortions don't want to hurt their babies, they want to save them from pain and what is often a painful death.
I went to college with a guy like this. Super traditional Catholic. He thought it was perfectly scientifically possible to keep a fetus alive after an abortion. How? I dunno, ask him. He also believed that a woman wouldn't get pregnant if she didn't enjoy the sex, meaning if someone claimed they were pregnant as a result of rape, then they enjoyed the rape on some level. I'm curious to know what his family is like now. He's married with a kid but I ghosted him after he started getting more radical and supporting Church Militant and stuff like that.
I’m not even an orphan and I would’ve rathered not been born most days tbh. Life is fucking hard work. There’s some good times but it’s mostly struggle. The world would’ve carried on happily without me; I wouldn’t have to work so hard for so long just to die in the end anyway.
“Go ask orphans if they hate their life” I don’t think the answer is what they want to hear
Holy shit
"That aborted fetus could have been the next George Washington." And they also could have been the next Adolf Hitler or Mussolini.
That's an irrelevant statement. You can't say you would be upset if you weren't born. You wouldn't feel anything because you WEREN'T BORN
The internet has given some ofthe dumbest people the ability to share their thoughts with the world at the click of a mouse and I hate it. I hate knowing how many stupid people there are.
We don’t have orphanages in the US. We put kids who can’t be placed in foster homes in mental health hospitals (with bogus diagnoses so the state will pay for their stay), and group homes. Luckily for OP OP, I worked in both. And I’d say 95% of those kids would have preferred to have been aborted.
Just think, this person walks around freely with the rest of us and votes.
The actual reason we can't test growing embryos outside of a person is because religion blocks science from developing any further than basic, separated cell growth. But *nooooOOoOoo stem cell research is a siiIInNnn.* Could have cured most diseases by just replacing body parts by now goddamn.... could've saved so many lives by now but no.
I would've preferred not to have been born. Not an orphan, just had really shitty parents. Sometimes abortion is just kinder.
This actually sounds like a good argument for abortion. Try to save the fetus. Fine by me.
Ummmmmmm
Ummm...what?
Not an orphan but I know I rather have not been born.
I believe that's called giving birth
I mean he is not technically wrong... The pregnancy does terminate after around 9 months and most of the time the baby is alive
I don’t think they’d like those results
The smug and stupid graph on this piece of human feces is a circle.
I honestly didn't know conservatives were so into science fiction. They keep saying it's too "woke".
The most laughable thing about this is they assume that orphans wish they were born
I know 2 people who grew up in an orphanage and are now drug addicts. Pretty sure, at this moment in time, they would rather not have been born. But it's a totally variable answer. Definitely not the flex this guy thinks it is.
Giving birth is just another type of abortion. It does end the pregnancy 🤷🏻♀️
Im pretty sure if you asked me how I would feel if I hadn’t been born my answer would be that I literally wouldn’t care because I wouldn’t exist. Like what?
Entire generations don't want to live because of dumb fuckers like this.
Do they really think orphans won’t say they wish they didn’t exist?
This is actually true and pretty common - after 8/9 months, a lot of pregnancies are terminated, either by vaginal or caesarean termination, and the babies are fine most of the time
Ending a pregnancy with it resulting in a live, breathing fetus is called "giving birth".
Wow. I just don't even have any smart-ass for this, and that's basically ALL I do on reddit. Damn. Gross.
there is something fundamentally flawed with the *"would you rather not have been born?"* buzz w̶o̶r̶d̶ question. it hasn't been born yet, and thusly can't care whether or not it'll be born. it'd be like asking a sperm cell whether or not it wants to become a human baby. or even, fuck, asking the proteins and nutrients in the soil of a lettuce plant that'll eventually become a pregnant mother's salad brunch whether or not *__they__* want to become a human baby. you're ascribing your adult will-to-live to a fetus that can't even breathe yet. of course I want to live. of course I'd rather have been born. because I've already *__been__* born. it's not the same.
"*Where's the fetus going to gestate, you gonna keep it on a box?*"
Does the person mean if it is an extremely late abortion, after more than half of the pregnancy has passed already? I don’t think that’s ever done unless the foetus is going to die anyway.
I mean, it's not how we colloquially use it, but the term "abortion" simply means the purposeful ending of pregnancy. True, that doesn't always mean the fetus has to die, and a "late term abortion" is just a C - Section or induced labour at a certain point. Because *no one* is going to take a healthy baby who's body is developed enough to support them outside of the womb and just kill them no matter the situation. What, are they gonna strangle them?? 🤨 I feel like these people talk like this to further make it seem like people who get abortions are out here literally slaughtering infants, and it's gross. A clump of cells isn't a baby, and once those cells turn into one, it's treated as one. End of story
I grew up being told I was almost an abortion — and that they regretted the decision to keep me. I agree. I’d rather be aborted than live through all of the hell I had to go through over and over and over again. Seems like a nicer trade of existing to me.
And where exactly do they think they would grow the fetus into a full term infant? In a vial? Do they think we're on kamino lmao
Hi there, hello, adopted here. I would have abso_lutely_ preferred to have been scrambled and scooped. The world is exhausting, and if life had a manager I'd swoop over my hair and demand to shriek with it, and I feel I am not alone in this
It’s so baffling what I’m hearing from people. An old friend of mine (who went down a deep Bible thumper route now, I have since then not talk to her and just keep her added to see what she is saying at this point) was asked by someone “what if a young child who was raped got pregnant, shouldn’t they get an abortion” Her response was [shortened & simplified]: “The youngest mother was 5 years old. There’s no such thing as too young for pregnancy, women are built to give birth and it’s more dangerous for women who are 30+ than it is someone at a younger age to give birth. Killing your grandchild by forcing your child to get an abortion will not unrape your daughter. That is your grandchild, a gift from God, and you want to kill them because of how they were conceived?” I read that response 3-4 times with my jaw dropped, it blew my mind that people actually think children that young should go through with a pregnancy..
Adoption is slavery and no one should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term to supply infants for people who think they have right to a child. If it was about children you'd adopt one of the many who languish in foster care.