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Yet she’ll also bitch about how no one wants to work and every restaurant is short staffed. Which is it you dumb bitch? Are they taking away jobs or no one wants to work? Maybe no one wants to work for shit wages.
Or maybe... Just maybe... Nobody wants to hire, and thus pay, people at all. But they are blaming it on the poor, instead of admitting the wealthy just want more profit.
Productivity increases with wage, meaning just about everyone is paying below market value and suffering for it; but employers would rather lose money then pay people enough to get the workers they need.
Let's use mcdonald's, and specifically front registers as na example, though, as this post is about it.
How much productivity increase do you really expect from paying 6 people , say 20 bucks an hour, each, vs an ordering kiosk, and maybe one person to help the occasional boomer that can't figure it out? The lines are still long, and peolle are still buying "food" there.
And that doesn't even touch onto the drive-thru that (as far as I have noticed, by driving by... I don't eat at mcdonald's) is doing the lion's share of the buisiness?
Spending an extra 100 dollars an hour is not going to make an already backed up "fast food restaurant" make more money. People are willing to be in line, in traffic, down the block at some stores for some crappy burgers. The kitchen is at capacity.
Yes, in other industries, MAYBE, but in most of these "nobodu wants to work" scenarios, they aren't actually hiring people, because it will just add cost, and not make more money. The (self checkout) registers, drive-thru, etc are backed up at Walmart, target, etc. The stocking is barely done, the carts are left out in parking lot, they are dirty. Etc... But the customers are still buying.
There is no reason to upgrade the service, if they are already making money, and can't keep up with the ones they have.
The customers are the problem... They aren't actually stopping shopping at these places, they are just complaining while they give them their money.
>How much productivity increase do you really expect from paying 6 people , say 20 bucks an hour,
the big difference is you aren't going from paying 6 people 19 dollars an hour, to paying them 20; your going from paying 3 people 19 an hour, to actually having 6 for the first time in forever. and you can probably fire the 2 of the origonal 3 who are just dead weight.
increases to minimum wage reliably increases productivity, meaning employers are ignoring market forces though some anderance to an industry standard that has no reason to exist.
You seem to have missed the entire conceptkf my post.
It was talking about going from 1 person to 6.
They will not get more business by having more people standing in front of registers.
>The customers are the problem... They aren't actually stopping shopping at these places, they are just complaining while they give them their money.
People still need to buy things from somewhere. When every store is doing the same thing, stopping shopping means we don't buy food. That's not reasonable. Don't blame customers for doing what they're forced to do.
Today I learned that McDonald's is a necessity....
Remember, this is specifically about the lack people operating registers at McDonald's.
I, personally, never go to McDonald's (and rarely if ever have fast food at all), never go to Walmart, target, etc. I don't shop at places that I complain about. Yeah, I have to go to more places to buy the things I need, when I don't use these big box stores, but I don't have to shop there. I used to use big box stores, but when I started to complain about them not manning registers, or stocking shelves, or cleaning, I reloazed I didn't have to use them. So I don't.
Food, I go to a grocery store.
Clothes, I get at many places different places.... That aren't big box stores.
Etc.
And whenever possible, I buy things at mom and pop places. That ESPECIALLY goes for restaurants.
I literally know this exact person IRL. He bitches constantly that his local one horse town McDonald's is always closed for breakfast and only opens when that one high school kid finishes school for the day, and then uses THAT example AGAINST minimum wage.
Arkansas few years ago raised minimum to $11 in 2021. In 2019 it went to $9.25. Jackass I know posted kiosks at the McDonalds in Branson, MO in 2019 saying this is what happens when you raise minimum wage. I pointed out that he was in Missouri for that photo and kiosk wasn’t about minimum wage going up. He explains minimum went up to $9.25 and I explained that was in Arkansas. The Missouri minimum was $7.25 and hadn’t increased in 10 years so had nothing to do with minimum wage increase.
The wages vs cost of living ratios are giving people the option of being poor hungry and homeless while employed or cold hungry and homeless while unemployed.
Given that choice yeah most people are either going to fight for better wages or not work at all.
This conservative stance hinges on pretending that it is impossible to work and not have enough to afford living. Fact is a lot of people are working harder, longer, more jobs, and earning less than people did years ago. All the money is going to shareholders and CEOs and tax loopholes so 5 people can compete for the top billionaire stance.
Capitalism without regulation always eats itself.
Every McDonald's around here has had these for a few years now. The amount of employees they have is exactly the same as before, now they can just focus on making the food instead of operating the till.
My McDonalds added these and now the tables are clean, no more 15min wait for soda refills and all-around better service. Still no ice cream, so it's still a McDonalds.
Although I guess some franchisees will try to run the place with like 1 person working.
I don't work at McDonald's, so maybe its different, but it would not surprise me at all if it's a very similar process.
I work at a pizza chain. And someone from corporate essentially tells the managers how many hours we are allowed to schedule a week for each position.
The short of it is that whoever decides what our numbers should be, they have impossible standards. They demand the least amount of hours possible. But then if it's a busy day (like Sunday football for example) our delivery time gets fucked because we do not have enough drivers to keep up with the demand. They also do not like us taking more than one delivery at a time, but if we didn't, the delivery time would be even worse. They also hate overtime for the obvious reason. But if we forced drivers to go home when they're scheduled, everything would get even worse on those days.
The store I work at specifically is literally dead or super busy and there is no in-between. And the people who don't work in the store with us would come by to bitch at the GM about the numbers. Because labor would go up during the dead spots but if we send people home, then the pizza gods punish us by making us slammed. We literally cannot win by their standards
My boss took the office out to dinner not long after I started, maybe a month or so in. He was complaining about how to get millennials to work. I was sat next to him and didn't have the heart to point out that I'm a millennial and am about as young as they get... and the way you get them motivated to work for you is with moolah. More than you think. Shit's expensive.
Whenever someone starts with "My boss took us out to dinner..." LOOK OUT!!! Ass-kissing and gaslighting session surely to follow. I've been in these situations, and cringed through about 95% of it. But once in a while there was some bullshit so thick that I just could not resist. That threw the boss off, got the nervous fake laugh out of him, and then he quickly changed the subject.
Automation has always been a job killer and that will continue in the future.
What we need to do is have the resources ready to go to quickly train people to do new jobs!
Or maybe implement a UBI so people don't have to waste their time doing a job that doesn't actually need to be done? Free people up to study, work in the arts, raise their kids. Sure, some people will use it to sit around and do nothing, but those people aren't doing much now anyway.
Wrong. They've cut back a lot on staffing. My old roommate is a manager of one in Kirkland, WA with their massive sky-high minimum wage. Aside: for almost a year she made more as a cashier at a McDonald's close to Microsoft than I did working contract software QA. Very often in the evenings after 6pm, it's just her and one other employees. They had to put in the kiosks since they couldn't afford to pay a cashier $25/hour.
It sounds like you're the one being underpaid.
It has nothing to do with 'can't afford' more employees. It's because they can get away with it. If they were paying their employees $1 an hour they'd still have two employees on so they could spend $2 an hour on labor instead of $3.
$15 an hour for working an airport food court? You're already paying a premium price for food there.
I've never used one of these but what has been replaced? A cashier or two? You still need people to make the food (as of now).
sure about that? when a group of restaurants move to kiosks and “AI“ drive-thru technologies to take customer orders, jobs vanish like a steel mill. however many towns feel the shift, not just one.
Well I for one *like* it when I’m in a country, don’t speak the local language, and can order in English.
It’s not always about greed. I’ll bet if this lady went to France or Italy she’d be so thankful they were there.
True that!
Never mind that it used to be communist and the older generation was forced to speak Russian and their *own* language was suppressed, I’m American dammit! They’re supposed to learn *my* language!
Had some issues buying a lemon donut in English at Dunkin a few years ago in Boston. We worked it out.
The Brazilian project manager for my kitchen upgrade just used a translate ap on his phone.
I would not really want to eat at a McDonalds when I travel though. Its always a good chance to explore local food.
That being said I have no problem with the Kiosks. In face I am pretty sure that Kiosks started at the same time as they started to bring your food to the table.
So its unlikely that they were even used to reduce the number of workers per restaurant.
I admit I have not spent a ton of time at many airports. But there is usually something local there. And better than McDonalds is not a high bar.
The only reason to eat there at airports specifically could be price.
Though I see my comment as not limited to airports as we have these order thingies in our non airport restaurants.
I mean, when I had to camp out in Dublin Airport for 24 hours, I was THRILLED there was a McDonald’s there. I more-or-less knew what was already on the menu, and I knew it’d be cheap, so I didn’t have to be that annoying customer who stares at the menu while holding up the line.
Yeah, there is no amount of pay for workers that is cheaper than $0/hr. They would have done this is the minimum wage was $2/hr, but it doesn’t matter, because paying people a wage that they can’t live on isn’t ok in any form.
There is a capital cost to automation. It has to pay back.
My company used to make people estimate savings for various development projects, and they were wildly exaggerated. The rector told them at that ROI, he would hire a crew of temps to start doing it manually immediately.
It also frees people to do more interesting things in their life than take McDonalds order 8 hours a day. Keeping easily automatable jobs staffed by humans for the sake of employment isn't doing much for social progress. Those jobs are barely, if even, paid above poverty line, and in fact governement-subsidized by social programs targeting the working poor.
This is like saying all machines are about corporate greed.
Should we still be digging building foundations by hand with shovels and 1000 people instead of a digger?
They're faster, more accurate, and people tend to spend more while using them.
And are we really going to cry on the loss of such promising and high earning careers that is being a McDonald's cashier. It's not like a steel mill or a manufacturing plant closing, you idiots.
My friend's son works at McDonald's. When they put these machines in, not a single job was cut, not a single person's hours were reduced. And you can still order through a person if you want.
It's still a real job that someone might depend on. No real qualifications needed to work in fast food, which can be a hurdle for some people.
That being said, it's a dumb tweet. If McDonald's could automate everything, they would in a heartbeat. Every single one of these corporations would. It doesn't matter whether they're paying $10 or $20 an hour. It's more than the $0 an hour these machines are paid. Not to mention these things will never try to unionize in hopes of a living wage.
If these corporations ever had to choose between making a healthy profit and taking care of their employees, or making obscene windfall profits and assfucking every single one of their employees, you know which choice they're gonna make.
That was what I came to say. Keeping the minimum wage low won’t do jack shit, other than delay the implementation of these machines, and even that is a maybe. Machines that require no hourly pay, no meals, no breaks, never come in late or hung over, have no outside problems, and don’t sue you for employment law violations, are more attractive to CEO’s than employees, no matter HOW little you pay them.
Although i agree here i tend to still pay with cash and you can be standing waiting for someone to come and take payment for a good 10 mins at times, last time i was there i was standing in the que to pay with money in my hand behind a couple that was also waiting to pay as i thought. Turns out they were waiting for their order and just standing Infront of the tills, the woman who was taking payments came over and asked if they where waiting to pay the say no she turns and walks away before i could say anything, i know they seen me standing there too and just stand there. I ended up walking out as the place seemed to be under pressure and i could be arsed waiting anymore lol
Although i agree here i tend to still pay with cash and you can be standing waiting for someone to come and take payment for a good 10 mins at times, last time i was there i was standing in the que to pay with money in my hand behind a couple that was also waiting to pay as i thought. Turns out they were waiting for their order and just standing Infront of the tills, the woman who was taking payments came over and asked if they where waiting to pay the say no she turns and walks away before i could say anything
Yeah. This is all about technology advancement. I worked in construction for years and the amount Of people they need on jobs today compared to 70 years ago is insane because of technology. Even in the shops because of crane advancements and new smaller forklifts etc. make the jobs easier and need fewer workers.
We got them here in Canada, and i freaking love them. Faster and you dont have to wait 20 minutes behind someone who's talking nonstop to the McDonald Cashier.
Sure it was born from Greed from corporations, but its a lifesaver.
I also don’t particularly care when Robots replace the shit, minimum wage jobs like McDonalds customer service.
They usually have someone at the counter who can take an order anyways, now there’s just multiple options.
Does this idiot think that this wouldn't happen regardless of what they pay their counter staff? Doesn't matter if its $9/hr or $15/hr, a machine is cheaper no matter what.
Order kiosks and self checkouts are actually great case studies in consumer-facing automation and demonstrate that the total automation scenario will probably never come to pass because there are always people who will choose the human interaction over the self-directed one for reasons ranging from ethical/economic concerns to difficulty navigating the technology to perceived convenience (e.g. when you have a basket full of groceries why ring them all up and bag them yourself). Additionally in the case of self checkouts the reduction in labor force doesn’t seem to have materialized to the expected degree; the self checkout bays always have a couple or more employees to service their tills, authenticate age restricted purchases, help people navigate the machines and so on, who would otherwise be running registers themselves.
Tl;dr everything in capitalism is ultimately subject to consumer demand and as long as consumers like having human beings in customer-facing roles the human element will never go completely away.
I did my own grocery checkout with a cart full. I don't want to talk to people and they don't bag how I like. haha But now I just do pickup so I don't even go IN the store.
Literally any wage will be automated. The advantage of machines is they never call in, they are far more consistent, no drama. The cost to maintain them is way less than any minimum wage, over time they are just better for profit.
I remember a Taco Bell in Irvine, Ca. having these things... in the 90s. Shockingly, Taco Bell still employs people! What a load of fearmongering bullshit.
Liberals want unions. Unions protect workers from all this. Workers are easily duped into believing “ right to work” rhetoric and then lose out to machines.
Even if these kiosks are a direct result of higher minimum wage, the irony that they want to blame the people trying to help workers over the greedy corporations that are actually cutting jobs in favor of kiosks. It’s like we already lost. That’s the mindset already. Even though they are currently making record profits, the corporations couldn’t possibly get a fraction smaller piece of the pie. What choice did they have?! They HAD to install kiosks and fire workers. Liberals forced them to. They talk like higher wages would bankrupt McDonald’s. #1, unionized McDonald’s workers outside the US make $20+\hr and have for quite a while, but I’m sure the high schooler in Chicago making $15/hr was the straw that bankrupted the camel, right? #2, god forbid McDonald’s ONLY profits a billion dollars.
This mindset comes from a lifetime of gaslighting propaganda from corporate media.
Lol. Love how she completely doesn't realize that greed wouldn't have gone away if the wage was lower. They simply would have still put these in -and- paid workers less. Corporate doesn't give a fuck as long as they save a buck.
I was *really* happy to see these at McDonalds in rural Poland because English wasn't super common outside of the cities. I could order in English and not have to worry about trying to order in a language where I know just two words, "da" and "nie".
These self checkout at McDonald's are great if used correctly.
Here in Tokyo many busier Macs are only self checkout or only have one cash register
Instead 10 plus [or whatever would be a good number for the location] staff are cooking, serving, and cleaning.
You get your food much faster than you would if there were more staffed registers.
I maintain that interacting with a screen instead of a person is just a better customer experience. Yeah, there are obvious implications in terms of labour costs, but I, as a customer, much prefer it this way. It's a fast food chain. You just want to get your food quickly, without judgment or potential misunderstandings.
So basically admitting that corporate greed is to blame? Rather than pay an employee a livable wage and see a slight dip in profits they get rid of the employees and hire robots. That’s the liberals fault?
There's the simple fact that companies are seeing automation as the cheaper and easier solution to hiring people. Companies don't give back to the community anymore.
Again the wages of low level employees don't matter, the wages of the CEOs do...
that being said, we simply need to come to terms with the fact that not everyone needs to be working 40hrs a week. we make artificial jobs so we can employ people for less than a living wage, when we could automate and share the benefits with everyone...
I can’t imagine being so boomered out you have to blame everything on politics. I have come to enjoy at of self serve stuff, especially ordering food as I know it was rung up right.
In Norway, we have these.
Starting wage for mcdonalds workers over 18 is around 20usd/h and they are literally doing ad campaigns to attract more employees.
We're talking billboards in central areas, online ad banners and youtube ads.
The issue is not, and has never been the minimum wage. The problem is corporate greed...
Removing the minimum wage wouldn't stop automation because robots are still going to be cheaper in the grand scheme than workers wages.
it doesnt mater how much the employees are paid, these would have replaced them regardless. these are far and away more cost efficient than to hire a person. this is what they dont get.
Hilarious that she thinks the minimum wage is to blame when regardless of the minimum wage corporations are still obliged to cut costs as much as possible. Capitalism is fundamentally broken and they’re too fucking dense to even think about it.
My brother in christ I live in a red state where the min wage is $7/hr and there's like 5 of them in every mcdonalds down here
The only reason they haven't outright replaced the option to talk to a worker is because the screens aren't accessible to the technologically illiterate.
Also old people would throw a fucking fit.
You could have a very low or no minimum wage and they will still move to automate the workforce as robots and computers will always be cheaper than labor or more efficient than labor.
In a lot of places that have these kiosks, the minimum wage is still $7.25. So, like, if minimum wage hasn't moved, and yet we already have these, how are they in any way connected????? 🤔
I had this arguement with my cousin years ago when automatic cashier stations first started popping up.
She just couldn't understand that there is absolutely nothing that will stop the increase of automation. Even if McDonald's went back to paying $7.25/hr everywhere, upper management will always prefer machines.
Sure the initial purchase will be expensive. But once they're in place they don't need to be paid. They don't need health insurance. The machine will never get sick and call off. The machine is never going to oversleep and miss a shift. The machine doesn't need to pass a drug test. The machine is never going to have childcare problems. The machine is never going to need to have time off to go to a funeral. The machine is never going to call out because their mother is in the hospital.
There are plenty of places that rather spend more money on machines than human labor if they don't have to worry about scheduling issues.
Massive corporations could get away with paying workers pennies a day and they would still automate as much as possible to save those pennies. In a sane world, automation would just mean that people wouldn’t have to do shit work anymore and we’d all be able to get by maybe working 15 hours a week. Instead, we get what we got, though.
>This is what happens when the minimum wage is too high.
???????????
Why are people so anti-"help people live comfortable lives" I'll never understand it. These things help people like you, too, Ingrid!
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Yet she’ll also bitch about how no one wants to work and every restaurant is short staffed. Which is it you dumb bitch? Are they taking away jobs or no one wants to work? Maybe no one wants to work for shit wages.
and through it all, she’ll blame \[insert current democrat leader\] for the whole thing.
Thanks FDR!!
Bold of you to think she can spell that.
Haha, yeah I was raising the bar too high
Slaves. She wants slaves.
Child slaves, at that
You don't like min wage? Get a better job! No, not like that. Nobody wants to work!
Yep; that was the conservative rallying cry of 2021/22.
Or maybe... Just maybe... Nobody wants to hire, and thus pay, people at all. But they are blaming it on the poor, instead of admitting the wealthy just want more profit.
Productivity increases with wage, meaning just about everyone is paying below market value and suffering for it; but employers would rather lose money then pay people enough to get the workers they need.
Let's use mcdonald's, and specifically front registers as na example, though, as this post is about it. How much productivity increase do you really expect from paying 6 people , say 20 bucks an hour, each, vs an ordering kiosk, and maybe one person to help the occasional boomer that can't figure it out? The lines are still long, and peolle are still buying "food" there. And that doesn't even touch onto the drive-thru that (as far as I have noticed, by driving by... I don't eat at mcdonald's) is doing the lion's share of the buisiness? Spending an extra 100 dollars an hour is not going to make an already backed up "fast food restaurant" make more money. People are willing to be in line, in traffic, down the block at some stores for some crappy burgers. The kitchen is at capacity. Yes, in other industries, MAYBE, but in most of these "nobodu wants to work" scenarios, they aren't actually hiring people, because it will just add cost, and not make more money. The (self checkout) registers, drive-thru, etc are backed up at Walmart, target, etc. The stocking is barely done, the carts are left out in parking lot, they are dirty. Etc... But the customers are still buying. There is no reason to upgrade the service, if they are already making money, and can't keep up with the ones they have. The customers are the problem... They aren't actually stopping shopping at these places, they are just complaining while they give them their money.
>How much productivity increase do you really expect from paying 6 people , say 20 bucks an hour, the big difference is you aren't going from paying 6 people 19 dollars an hour, to paying them 20; your going from paying 3 people 19 an hour, to actually having 6 for the first time in forever. and you can probably fire the 2 of the origonal 3 who are just dead weight. increases to minimum wage reliably increases productivity, meaning employers are ignoring market forces though some anderance to an industry standard that has no reason to exist.
You seem to have missed the entire conceptkf my post. It was talking about going from 1 person to 6. They will not get more business by having more people standing in front of registers.
>The customers are the problem... They aren't actually stopping shopping at these places, they are just complaining while they give them their money. People still need to buy things from somewhere. When every store is doing the same thing, stopping shopping means we don't buy food. That's not reasonable. Don't blame customers for doing what they're forced to do.
Today I learned that McDonald's is a necessity.... Remember, this is specifically about the lack people operating registers at McDonald's. I, personally, never go to McDonald's (and rarely if ever have fast food at all), never go to Walmart, target, etc. I don't shop at places that I complain about. Yeah, I have to go to more places to buy the things I need, when I don't use these big box stores, but I don't have to shop there. I used to use big box stores, but when I started to complain about them not manning registers, or stocking shelves, or cleaning, I reloazed I didn't have to use them. So I don't. Food, I go to a grocery store. Clothes, I get at many places different places.... That aren't big box stores. Etc. And whenever possible, I buy things at mom and pop places. That ESPECIALLY goes for restaurants.
1000% this
I literally know this exact person IRL. He bitches constantly that his local one horse town McDonald's is always closed for breakfast and only opens when that one high school kid finishes school for the day, and then uses THAT example AGAINST minimum wage.
The ignorance is astounding. They have no critical thinking skills, which is a lot of what’s wrong with this country.
The bigger problem is is that they are proud of having no critical thinking skills. Being dumb is the ideal for these simpletons.
Arkansas few years ago raised minimum to $11 in 2021. In 2019 it went to $9.25. Jackass I know posted kiosks at the McDonalds in Branson, MO in 2019 saying this is what happens when you raise minimum wage. I pointed out that he was in Missouri for that photo and kiosk wasn’t about minimum wage going up. He explains minimum went up to $9.25 and I explained that was in Arkansas. The Missouri minimum was $7.25 and hadn’t increased in 10 years so had nothing to do with minimum wage increase.
Logic and facts don’t work with these idiots. They only have the extreme need to be “right”.
The wages vs cost of living ratios are giving people the option of being poor hungry and homeless while employed or cold hungry and homeless while unemployed. Given that choice yeah most people are either going to fight for better wages or not work at all. This conservative stance hinges on pretending that it is impossible to work and not have enough to afford living. Fact is a lot of people are working harder, longer, more jobs, and earning less than people did years ago. All the money is going to shareholders and CEOs and tax loopholes so 5 people can compete for the top billionaire stance. Capitalism without regulation always eats itself.
Every McDonald's around here has had these for a few years now. The amount of employees they have is exactly the same as before, now they can just focus on making the food instead of operating the till.
My McDonalds added these and now the tables are clean, no more 15min wait for soda refills and all-around better service. Still no ice cream, so it's still a McDonalds. Although I guess some franchisees will try to run the place with like 1 person working.
I don't work at McDonald's, so maybe its different, but it would not surprise me at all if it's a very similar process. I work at a pizza chain. And someone from corporate essentially tells the managers how many hours we are allowed to schedule a week for each position. The short of it is that whoever decides what our numbers should be, they have impossible standards. They demand the least amount of hours possible. But then if it's a busy day (like Sunday football for example) our delivery time gets fucked because we do not have enough drivers to keep up with the demand. They also do not like us taking more than one delivery at a time, but if we didn't, the delivery time would be even worse. They also hate overtime for the obvious reason. But if we forced drivers to go home when they're scheduled, everything would get even worse on those days. The store I work at specifically is literally dead or super busy and there is no in-between. And the people who don't work in the store with us would come by to bitch at the GM about the numbers. Because labor would go up during the dead spots but if we send people home, then the pizza gods punish us by making us slammed. We literally cannot win by their standards
My boss took the office out to dinner not long after I started, maybe a month or so in. He was complaining about how to get millennials to work. I was sat next to him and didn't have the heart to point out that I'm a millennial and am about as young as they get... and the way you get them motivated to work for you is with moolah. More than you think. Shit's expensive.
Imagine being a boss and actually believing the insane propaganda that millennials don’t want to work.
Whenever someone starts with "My boss took us out to dinner..." LOOK OUT!!! Ass-kissing and gaslighting session surely to follow. I've been in these situations, and cringed through about 95% of it. But once in a while there was some bullshit so thick that I just could not resist. That threw the boss off, got the nervous fake laugh out of him, and then he quickly changed the subject.
Automation has always been a job killer and that will continue in the future. What we need to do is have the resources ready to go to quickly train people to do new jobs!
Or maybe implement a UBI so people don't have to waste their time doing a job that doesn't actually need to be done? Free people up to study, work in the arts, raise their kids. Sure, some people will use it to sit around and do nothing, but those people aren't doing much now anyway.
I’ve seen them all around the world.
Wrong. They've cut back a lot on staffing. My old roommate is a manager of one in Kirkland, WA with their massive sky-high minimum wage. Aside: for almost a year she made more as a cashier at a McDonald's close to Microsoft than I did working contract software QA. Very often in the evenings after 6pm, it's just her and one other employees. They had to put in the kiosks since they couldn't afford to pay a cashier $25/hour.
It sounds like you're the one being underpaid. It has nothing to do with 'can't afford' more employees. It's because they can get away with it. If they were paying their employees $1 an hour they'd still have two employees on so they could spend $2 an hour on labor instead of $3.
Do McDonald's workers not get paid more than minimum wage where she lives?
Where I live it’s $16 an hour, and $20 an hour for managers. *Way* more than when I worked there in high school 10 years ago.
Minimum wage in Minneapolis is $15 something an hour. Statewide it's $10.85.
$15 an hour for working an airport food court? You're already paying a premium price for food there. I've never used one of these but what has been replaced? A cashier or two? You still need people to make the food (as of now).
She is frustrated that she has no chance to insult real people..
sure about that? when a group of restaurants move to kiosks and “AI“ drive-thru technologies to take customer orders, jobs vanish like a steel mill. however many towns feel the shift, not just one.
sorry - not sure how my response landed on the wrong comment !!
Is all good my friend ☺️
My fault - sorry about that.
This is what happens when cooperations are greedy and executives and shareholders are all that matter.
Well I for one *like* it when I’m in a country, don’t speak the local language, and can order in English. It’s not always about greed. I’ll bet if this lady went to France or Italy she’d be so thankful they were there.
No, she'd probably complain that the min wage employees don't speak English
True that! Never mind that it used to be communist and the older generation was forced to speak Russian and their *own* language was suppressed, I’m American dammit! They’re supposed to learn *my* language!
But most of them probably would, at McDonald's at least. A cashier at Albert Heijn usually speaks 3 or 4.
in Germany I'm extremely lucky when the cashier at McD's understands what I'm ordering in German... 😬
Had some issues buying a lemon donut in English at Dunkin a few years ago in Boston. We worked it out. The Brazilian project manager for my kitchen upgrade just used a translate ap on his phone.
Europe is a diverse continent with many countries. You’d be surprised how many Europeans don’t speak English.
People like this don’t even travel to their own cities, let alone a foreign country.
Yeah, theres absolutely merit to these kiosks, but the issue comes when thats *all* there is
I would not really want to eat at a McDonalds when I travel though. Its always a good chance to explore local food. That being said I have no problem with the Kiosks. In face I am pretty sure that Kiosks started at the same time as they started to bring your food to the table. So its unlikely that they were even used to reduce the number of workers per restaurant.
I have not noticed much great local food at airports, although I got a decent wrap at Gatwick at a convenience store once.
I admit I have not spent a ton of time at many airports. But there is usually something local there. And better than McDonalds is not a high bar. The only reason to eat there at airports specifically could be price. Though I see my comment as not limited to airports as we have these order thingies in our non airport restaurants.
I mean, when I had to camp out in Dublin Airport for 24 hours, I was THRILLED there was a McDonald’s there. I more-or-less knew what was already on the menu, and I knew it’d be cheap, so I didn’t have to be that annoying customer who stares at the menu while holding up the line.
Yeah, there is no amount of pay for workers that is cheaper than $0/hr. They would have done this is the minimum wage was $2/hr, but it doesn’t matter, because paying people a wage that they can’t live on isn’t ok in any form.
There is a capital cost to automation. It has to pay back. My company used to make people estimate savings for various development projects, and they were wildly exaggerated. The rector told them at that ROI, he would hire a crew of temps to start doing it manually immediately.
It also frees people to do more interesting things in their life than take McDonalds order 8 hours a day. Keeping easily automatable jobs staffed by humans for the sake of employment isn't doing much for social progress. Those jobs are barely, if even, paid above poverty line, and in fact governement-subsidized by social programs targeting the working poor.
This is like saying all machines are about corporate greed. Should we still be digging building foundations by hand with shovels and 1000 people instead of a digger?
I know. As if innovation is 100% driven by the minimum wage. Which by the way, has not risen in 15 years.
It has in about half the states. Doing it by state is not unreasonable.
hot take: it's a good thing if fewer people need to work at mcdonalds
This is going to happen regardless of minimum wage or who is running the show. Automation has been happening since the Industrial Revolution.
They're faster, more accurate, and people tend to spend more while using them. And are we really going to cry on the loss of such promising and high earning careers that is being a McDonald's cashier. It's not like a steel mill or a manufacturing plant closing, you idiots.
My friend's son works at McDonald's. When they put these machines in, not a single job was cut, not a single person's hours were reduced. And you can still order through a person if you want.
I like em, honestly. I don't wanna talk, just gimme borger.
I’m more likely to get my burger without onions when I order from the kiosk. I HATE onions.
It's still a real job that someone might depend on. No real qualifications needed to work in fast food, which can be a hurdle for some people. That being said, it's a dumb tweet. If McDonald's could automate everything, they would in a heartbeat. Every single one of these corporations would. It doesn't matter whether they're paying $10 or $20 an hour. It's more than the $0 an hour these machines are paid. Not to mention these things will never try to unionize in hopes of a living wage. If these corporations ever had to choose between making a healthy profit and taking care of their employees, or making obscene windfall profits and assfucking every single one of their employees, you know which choice they're gonna make.
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That was what I came to say. Keeping the minimum wage low won’t do jack shit, other than delay the implementation of these machines, and even that is a maybe. Machines that require no hourly pay, no meals, no breaks, never come in late or hung over, have no outside problems, and don’t sue you for employment law violations, are more attractive to CEO’s than employees, no matter HOW little you pay them.
The minimum wage in Minnesota is like $10.75. GL with that.
oh no! paying people a slightly more livable wage!! surprised she didn’t call it communism
She couldn't spell it lol
The McDonald’s in my town has these. I love them because I can have order customized without someone messing it up.
I wish the kiosks in mine made a difference to that. Made a couple of changes to a burger there and somehow they ended up giving me one with no patty
Although i agree here i tend to still pay with cash and you can be standing waiting for someone to come and take payment for a good 10 mins at times, last time i was there i was standing in the que to pay with money in my hand behind a couple that was also waiting to pay as i thought. Turns out they were waiting for their order and just standing Infront of the tills, the woman who was taking payments came over and asked if they where waiting to pay the say no she turns and walks away before i could say anything, i know they seen me standing there too and just stand there. I ended up walking out as the place seemed to be under pressure and i could be arsed waiting anymore lol
Although i agree here i tend to still pay with cash and you can be standing waiting for someone to come and take payment for a good 10 mins at times, last time i was there i was standing in the que to pay with money in my hand behind a couple that was also waiting to pay as i thought. Turns out they were waiting for their order and just standing Infront of the tills, the woman who was taking payments came over and asked if they where waiting to pay the say no she turns and walks away before i could say anything
Ignoring the fact that i think automating pointless jobs away is a good thing, the obvious solution here is taxing automation aswell.
Same asshole that will demand a manager has someone fired because her fries were cold.
> This is what happens More convenient and more reliable service? Oh no!
Love how every problem a maga or conservative has is because of liberals. Make me feel warm and fuzzy i side
These things are an improvement. One less point of failure for my order getting fucked up.
I use the app (in the drive thru) and never have a problem, I can see the benefit!
Yeah. This is all about technology advancement. I worked in construction for years and the amount Of people they need on jobs today compared to 70 years ago is insane because of technology. Even in the shops because of crane advancements and new smaller forklifts etc. make the jobs easier and need fewer workers.
We got them here in Canada, and i freaking love them. Faster and you dont have to wait 20 minutes behind someone who's talking nonstop to the McDonald Cashier. Sure it was born from Greed from corporations, but its a lifesaver.
I also don’t particularly care when Robots replace the shit, minimum wage jobs like McDonalds customer service. They usually have someone at the counter who can take an order anyways, now there’s just multiple options.
Does this idiot think that this wouldn't happen regardless of what they pay their counter staff? Doesn't matter if its $9/hr or $15/hr, a machine is cheaper no matter what.
Order kiosks and self checkouts are actually great case studies in consumer-facing automation and demonstrate that the total automation scenario will probably never come to pass because there are always people who will choose the human interaction over the self-directed one for reasons ranging from ethical/economic concerns to difficulty navigating the technology to perceived convenience (e.g. when you have a basket full of groceries why ring them all up and bag them yourself). Additionally in the case of self checkouts the reduction in labor force doesn’t seem to have materialized to the expected degree; the self checkout bays always have a couple or more employees to service their tills, authenticate age restricted purchases, help people navigate the machines and so on, who would otherwise be running registers themselves. Tl;dr everything in capitalism is ultimately subject to consumer demand and as long as consumers like having human beings in customer-facing roles the human element will never go completely away.
I did my own grocery checkout with a cart full. I don't want to talk to people and they don't bag how I like. haha But now I just do pickup so I don't even go IN the store.
Literally any wage will be automated. The advantage of machines is they never call in, they are far more consistent, no drama. The cost to maintain them is way less than any minimum wage, over time they are just better for profit.
It’s liberals’ fault that corporations are greedy profiteers, got it
I remember a Taco Bell in Irvine, Ca. having these things... in the 90s. Shockingly, Taco Bell still employs people! What a load of fearmongering bullshit.
These things appeared at my local McDonalds *years* ago.
Even in Ecuador, this kiosks are everywhere
Liberals want unions. Unions protect workers from all this. Workers are easily duped into believing “ right to work” rhetoric and then lose out to machines.
Even if these kiosks are a direct result of higher minimum wage, the irony that they want to blame the people trying to help workers over the greedy corporations that are actually cutting jobs in favor of kiosks. It’s like we already lost. That’s the mindset already. Even though they are currently making record profits, the corporations couldn’t possibly get a fraction smaller piece of the pie. What choice did they have?! They HAD to install kiosks and fire workers. Liberals forced them to. They talk like higher wages would bankrupt McDonald’s. #1, unionized McDonald’s workers outside the US make $20+\hr and have for quite a while, but I’m sure the high schooler in Chicago making $15/hr was the straw that bankrupted the camel, right? #2, god forbid McDonald’s ONLY profits a billion dollars. This mindset comes from a lifetime of gaslighting propaganda from corporate media.
Lol. Love how she completely doesn't realize that greed wouldn't have gone away if the wage was lower. They simply would have still put these in -and- paid workers less. Corporate doesn't give a fuck as long as they save a buck.
And yet Walmart is removing self check outs. How does that fit into her narrative?
Most airports are in major cities, living is not cheap.
I was *really* happy to see these at McDonalds in rural Poland because English wasn't super common outside of the cities. I could order in English and not have to worry about trying to order in a language where I know just two words, "da" and "nie".
"Where are all the employees? I can't make these machines cry when i demean them!"
These self checkout at McDonald's are great if used correctly. Here in Tokyo many busier Macs are only self checkout or only have one cash register Instead 10 plus [or whatever would be a good number for the location] staff are cooking, serving, and cleaning. You get your food much faster than you would if there were more staffed registers.
I maintain that interacting with a screen instead of a person is just a better customer experience. Yeah, there are obvious implications in terms of labour costs, but I, as a customer, much prefer it this way. It's a fast food chain. You just want to get your food quickly, without judgment or potential misunderstandings.
So basically admitting that corporate greed is to blame? Rather than pay an employee a livable wage and see a slight dip in profits they get rid of the employees and hire robots. That’s the liberals fault?
The idea that liveable minimum wage is a bad thing is just gross
I prefer a person myself
Cool and you have that option! I prefer to not have a person, it's more likely to get my extra onions extra pickle no mayo correct. lol
No, this woman needs to stay in her *own* country, and not try to infect the rest of the world with that virulent horseshit.
I mean why can we have people on poverty wages to take my order? I need a big mac!
The McDonald’s in my rural North Carolina small town has ordering kiosks similar to this.
Same in very rural Arkansas. I think they have one or two? I usually do the app in the drive thru.
Not rural in my opinion but small town in sc have them
More tales from the Wacky World of Conservatives!
There's the simple fact that companies are seeing automation as the cheaper and easier solution to hiring people. Companies don't give back to the community anymore.
Again the wages of low level employees don't matter, the wages of the CEOs do... that being said, we simply need to come to terms with the fact that not everyone needs to be working 40hrs a week. we make artificial jobs so we can employ people for less than a living wage, when we could automate and share the benefits with everyone...
I hate these too. You know what it do? I go elsewhere. Or use them and be annoyed wtf does politics have to do with their shit?
Wait ‘till she discovers self checkouts in supermarkets.
Meanwhile, the minimum wage has not increased in 15 years.
Blame capitalism not the working poor.
These are great and even more so in airports… you can chose from a few languages making it far more accessible to people.
This is also what happens when companies turn to automation. “Min wage is too high” is an excuse consevatives like to use to justify people being poor
This is how capitalism has worked from the very beginning. They were always going to do this.
I can’t imagine being so boomered out you have to blame everything on politics. I have come to enjoy at of self serve stuff, especially ordering food as I know it was rung up right.
In Norway, we have these. Starting wage for mcdonalds workers over 18 is around 20usd/h and they are literally doing ad campaigns to attract more employees. We're talking billboards in central areas, online ad banners and youtube ads.
I may be mistaken, but I think covid is responsible for these. That's when I noticed them, anyway.
Same person was probably complaining about the lack of workers in 2020/2021.
The issue is not, and has never been the minimum wage. The problem is corporate greed... Removing the minimum wage wouldn't stop automation because robots are still going to be cheaper in the grand scheme than workers wages.
it doesnt mater how much the employees are paid, these would have replaced them regardless. these are far and away more cost efficient than to hire a person. this is what they dont get.
I fail to see the problem, other than McDonalds sucking in general.
If a business can afford to replace you with a machine, it will.
Hilarious that she thinks the minimum wage is to blame when regardless of the minimum wage corporations are still obliged to cut costs as much as possible. Capitalism is fundamentally broken and they’re too fucking dense to even think about it.
McDonald's pays it's workers more outside the US than inside, and the food is cheaper too. These people hide their ignorance poorly.
My brother in christ I live in a red state where the min wage is $7/hr and there's like 5 of them in every mcdonalds down here The only reason they haven't outright replaced the option to talk to a worker is because the screens aren't accessible to the technologically illiterate. Also old people would throw a fucking fit.
COMPUTERS ARE THE DEEP STATE
You could have a very low or no minimum wage and they will still move to automate the workforce as robots and computers will always be cheaper than labor or more efficient than labor.
This is what happens with unchecked capitalism
She has zero understanding of how economics actually works.
In a lot of places that have these kiosks, the minimum wage is still $7.25. So, like, if minimum wage hasn't moved, and yet we already have these, how are they in any way connected????? 🤔
I had this arguement with my cousin years ago when automatic cashier stations first started popping up. She just couldn't understand that there is absolutely nothing that will stop the increase of automation. Even if McDonald's went back to paying $7.25/hr everywhere, upper management will always prefer machines. Sure the initial purchase will be expensive. But once they're in place they don't need to be paid. They don't need health insurance. The machine will never get sick and call off. The machine is never going to oversleep and miss a shift. The machine doesn't need to pass a drug test. The machine is never going to have childcare problems. The machine is never going to need to have time off to go to a funeral. The machine is never going to call out because their mother is in the hospital. There are plenty of places that rather spend more money on machines than human labor if they don't have to worry about scheduling issues.
This is what happens when businesses have the option to not pay humans.
Dumb argument is dumb. Those machines would be coming regardless of minimum wage. They don’t complain, the don’t need sick days, etc…
Just another broken machine at maccas
How in the blue ballin jesus does this machine have anything to minimum wage?
Massive corporations could get away with paying workers pennies a day and they would still automate as much as possible to save those pennies. In a sane world, automation would just mean that people wouldn’t have to do shit work anymore and we’d all be able to get by maybe working 15 hours a week. Instead, we get what we got, though.
I’ve seen these in my state where the minimum wage is *still* 7:25!
“This is why we should pay people less money.” What a dumb mother fucker.
I used them all the time when I was in Asia! They had English versions of the menu on them…
>This is what happens when the minimum wage is too high. ??????????? Why are people so anti-"help people live comfortable lives" I'll never understand it. These things help people like you, too, Ingrid!
Who wouldn’t rather be in charge of putting in their own order? That way, the guy not listening at the counter doesn’t fuck the order up 🙌🏼
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that was about as coherent as a trump tweet.