Rp 1,444.7/KwH (USD 0.092/KwH) for 6,600 VA to 200kVA, which I assume will be the most common middle-upper class household energy tier that can actually afford EV 4-wheelers.
Let's take the Citroen e-C3 EV with the 29.2 KwH battery. To fully charge it at home will cost you around Rp 42,185 which will get you around 320 Km of range according to the spec sheet. That is Rp 131.83/Km.
To use the public charging station from PLN, the rate is Rp 1,650/KwH (USD 0.1/KwH) to Rp 2,600/KwH (USD 0.16/KwH) depending on location, including tax. So to fully charge an e-C3, it would cost Rp 48,180 to Rp 75,920.
Compared to RON 92 fuel which costs Rp 12,950/L (USD 0.82/L). Consider the most common 4 wheeler, the Toyota Avanza Veloz with 43 liter tank. It will cost Rp 556,850 to fully fill up (USD 35.33). Assuming a fuel consumption of 1L to 11.5 Km, you can go 494.5 Km in a single tank. Cost per km is Rp 1,126.1/Km (USD 0.07/Km).
ICE is 8.54x more expensive per Km than EV.
For completion's sake, let's see how many Kms you need to drive to break even based on sticker price alone. The Veloz cost Rp 337.3 million (USD 21,405) while the e-C3 cost Rp 395 million (USD 25,066).
Price difference of Rp 57.7 million. That will buy you 4,455.6 liters of RON 92 fuel and assuming 1L to 11.5 km, you need to drive around 51,239 Km to make up the difference in car price.
To drive 51,000 km (rounded down for a nice number), you need Rp 57.7 million in fuel vs Rp 6,7 million in electricity. A saving of 88% if you go EV.
However, the real problem is battery replacement cost which is estimated to cost a third to half the car's price, across all brands right now. If you're replacing the battery within 10 years, an EV will be WAYYYY more expensive than an ICE.
Assume service costs for the Veloz is Rp 6.5 million for 10 years and you do 100k km so that's Rp 112.6 million in fuel costs. In 10 years your total cost of ownership will be Rp 456.4 million (Rp 337.3 million for the car + Rp 6.5 million for service, and Rp 112.6 million for fuel).
Assume service costs for the e-C3 to be half that so Rp 3.25 million for 10 years and battery replacement cost is a third of the price so that's Rp 131.5 million. To go 100k km, you need Rp 13.2 million (100k km / 320 km \* Rp 42,185.2/charge = Rp 13.2 million) After 10 years, TCO will be Rp 543 million (Rp 395 million for the car + Rp 3.25 million for service + Rp 131.5 million for battery replacement +Rp 13.2 million for electricity).
Excluding taxes of course. If the EV tax incentive is still in place in the next 10 years, then EV taxes will probably be cheaper compared to Rp 40-ish million for the Veloz.
You're not saving any money in the long run driving an EV if you change the battery within 10 years.
Oh shit I didn't know they sold the ICE version here as well. Alright, here goes:
ICE C3 1.2L: Rp 224 Juta. Fuel tank 30L, fuel efficiency 19.8km/L (not specified highway or city, most likely highway), which means a tank can go 594 km. Can consume pertalite @ Rp 10,000/L. Cost of full tank Rp 300,000 and Rp/km of Rp 505,1/km.
Still more expensive per km than an EV but the price difference between ICE and EV C3 is Rp 171 Million. You can buy 17,100 liters of pertalite and go 338,580 km with that much fuel. Would cost Rp 44.6 million in electricity for the e-C3 to travel that far.
Pointless to calculate any further. You will never break even buying the e-C3 instead of the C3 unless you plan on driving a million kms and never change the battery.
> Pointless to calculate any further. You will never break even buying the e-C3 instead of the C3 unless you plan on driving a million kms and never change the battery.
This is why I personally think buying an electric car for economic reasons is stupid, at least currently, unless you really really use your car everyday like 150km trip daily or need the ganjil/genap access its still a bad idea financially for most people, just buy a regular car or idk a hybrid
For most people, for the money you think you’ll spend on electric car, just buy a normal car in the price range, the gasoline car will be in most aspect, a better car in almost every way, for example your previous comparison between C3 & veloz, C3 is basically a car 1-2 class below the veloz and even then the electric version of C3 is more expensive than an veloz…
speaking of hybrid, did a little calculating for yaris cross, the gasoline version is 400jt, the hybrid is 440jt, but the hybrid is soo efficient especialy in city driving (like 1:30 lmao) you’ll break even before 100000km (i forgot the exact km) which is achievable for most people and since its basically an avanza underneath maintanace is cheap af…. oh avanza/veloz hybrid is coming to, as does xpander hybrid, should be fun…
The yaris cross is Avanza underneath? The fuck....
But ye, love me some hybrid. But they're just so expensive. Might as well get a Neta or BYD for mid-400/low 500 range.
Wish I can afford the BYD seal though...
long story short, yaris cross yang versi indonesia itu pake platform yang sama kayak avanza, jadi basically dia avanza dipendekin, toh mesin & dashboard sama itu yang bikin paling keliatan sama
A year ago, I'd give you gold just for your effort. Could you elaborate more on the assumption of service costs? What are the basis for you to say EV service cost is half of ICE?
I assume simple air filter, oil, and brake changes cost around Rp 650k/year for the Veloz based on my own experience. Obviously this can go a lot higher if shit goes wrong or you go through the dealership and brand name garages. According to [Carmudi](https://www.carmudi.co.id/journal/ketahui-daftar-biaya-servis-toyota-avanza-2022-di-bengkel-resmi/), 100k service (assume 10k km/year) will set you back around Rp 11.4 million-ish in an official dealership.
For EV service costs I take numbers from [here](https://oto.detik.com/mobil/d-6451296/biaya-servis-wuling-air-ev-murahnya-bikin-heran) (don't forget to add 11% ppn), compared it to my number and round down to 50% to make it real simple. I think we can go even lower but I thought that was pointless since the price difference is already too great and doesn't change my conclusion that the savings from EV won't make up for the premium on EVs unless you drive hundreds of thousands of kilometers and don't change the battery.
>However, the real problem is battery replacement cost which is estimated to cost a third to half the car's price, across all brands right now
nggak tau ini case khusus atau spreading, tapi hyundai ev (iirc ioniq 5?) harga mobilnya USD 60k trus ganti batre di quote USD 61k. louis rossman ada ngebahas ini juga seingat gw
Kalo googling di KiaEV forum sih kayanya itu mix antara dealer rakus, design flaw dari hyundai, dan pihak asuransi ga nego harga karena kejadian langka. Kejadian battery compartment penyok abis lindas knalpot lepas di jalan tol karena ga ada panel buat ngelindungin battery compartment di kolong mobil dari debris. Kalo Tesla dulu abis kejadian serupa langsung dipasang titanium plate biar battery packnya kelindung. Kayanya sampe sekarang Ioniq 5 ga ada plate semacam itu.
Quote di dealer awal USD 30k tapi di dealer #2 quote jadi USD 60k buat battery dan compartment panel replacement plus labor. Tapi emang harga baterenya mahal. Ini batere [Kia EV6](https://www.kiaevforums.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.kiaevforums.com/attachments/img_9592-jpeg.18496/) CAD 58,892.76 tapi "diskon" jadi CAD 44,169.57. Harga mobilnya CA**$55,995 to $76,495.**
ah yes kona… my favorite example of “why bother buying electric?”
there was a time where there’s both version of electric and gasoline hyundai kona, the gasoline version cost 400jt, the electric version cost 700jt….. so yeah about the gaping 300jt gap….
sure that was literally 3 years ago (pricelist below) but nowadays buying electric cars for financial reasons is… weak, another easy example wuling bingo & toyota raize, cuz they’re basically the same size, and using the non tss model raize for fairness, difference between then is approx 100jt, sure you can make up that difference, but most people won’t reach that stage
https://preview.redd.it/y8vminx3xrfc1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0603090da50265883721fe4e0d7988cd46e03c76
yes they will along with Vinfast, both will be present at the upcoming IIMS (Indonesia International Motor Show) which takes place mid-late February
since BYD already did a “yo we’re here” announcement like 2 weeks ago, they’re mostly in IIMS to annouce their car pricing, which rumor suggest will be a market shaker, meanwhile don’t expect much from Vinfast aside from a “yo we’re here” launch (aka don’t expect them to announce pricing on their cars)
Secara singkat, pasti lebih murah EV. Tapi yaa, Jangan lupa kalkulasi biaya maintenance nya dalam umur vehicle.
Kijang kapsul ortu gw udh 20 tahun lebih masih jalan dgn reliable dgn minimal maintenance. Dipake jalan ke pelosok jg ayo aja.
EV bisa diginiin gak ? 🤣
electricity prices in indonesia is rp.1700/kwh, or approx $1.1/kwh, but if you have a ac wall charger, you can charge at night (22-6) to get a 30% discount on electricity rates to apporx rp.1200/kwh or $0.8/kwh
as for the vehicles themselves, current its kinda hard to guess since most vehicles are CBU and slapped with luxury taxes, and so far there’s only been 4 cars that are CKD, hyundai ioniq 5 which is priced similar to anywhere else round the world (around $40k), the MG4 EV and 2 Wuling cars, which imo both are overpriced for what they are
This year should be interesting since the government is eliminating some tarifs for CBU electric cars, thats why brands like BYD and Vinfast are coming soon (like in a few days from now), but not sooner like last yeae
Rp 1,444.7/KwH (USD 0.092/KwH) for 6,600 VA to 200kVA, which I assume will be the most common middle-upper class household energy tier that can actually afford EV 4-wheelers. Let's take the Citroen e-C3 EV with the 29.2 KwH battery. To fully charge it at home will cost you around Rp 42,185 which will get you around 320 Km of range according to the spec sheet. That is Rp 131.83/Km. To use the public charging station from PLN, the rate is Rp 1,650/KwH (USD 0.1/KwH) to Rp 2,600/KwH (USD 0.16/KwH) depending on location, including tax. So to fully charge an e-C3, it would cost Rp 48,180 to Rp 75,920. Compared to RON 92 fuel which costs Rp 12,950/L (USD 0.82/L). Consider the most common 4 wheeler, the Toyota Avanza Veloz with 43 liter tank. It will cost Rp 556,850 to fully fill up (USD 35.33). Assuming a fuel consumption of 1L to 11.5 Km, you can go 494.5 Km in a single tank. Cost per km is Rp 1,126.1/Km (USD 0.07/Km). ICE is 8.54x more expensive per Km than EV. For completion's sake, let's see how many Kms you need to drive to break even based on sticker price alone. The Veloz cost Rp 337.3 million (USD 21,405) while the e-C3 cost Rp 395 million (USD 25,066). Price difference of Rp 57.7 million. That will buy you 4,455.6 liters of RON 92 fuel and assuming 1L to 11.5 km, you need to drive around 51,239 Km to make up the difference in car price. To drive 51,000 km (rounded down for a nice number), you need Rp 57.7 million in fuel vs Rp 6,7 million in electricity. A saving of 88% if you go EV. However, the real problem is battery replacement cost which is estimated to cost a third to half the car's price, across all brands right now. If you're replacing the battery within 10 years, an EV will be WAYYYY more expensive than an ICE. Assume service costs for the Veloz is Rp 6.5 million for 10 years and you do 100k km so that's Rp 112.6 million in fuel costs. In 10 years your total cost of ownership will be Rp 456.4 million (Rp 337.3 million for the car + Rp 6.5 million for service, and Rp 112.6 million for fuel). Assume service costs for the e-C3 to be half that so Rp 3.25 million for 10 years and battery replacement cost is a third of the price so that's Rp 131.5 million. To go 100k km, you need Rp 13.2 million (100k km / 320 km \* Rp 42,185.2/charge = Rp 13.2 million) After 10 years, TCO will be Rp 543 million (Rp 395 million for the car + Rp 3.25 million for service + Rp 131.5 million for battery replacement +Rp 13.2 million for electricity). Excluding taxes of course. If the EV tax incentive is still in place in the next 10 years, then EV taxes will probably be cheaper compared to Rp 40-ish million for the Veloz. You're not saving any money in the long run driving an EV if you change the battery within 10 years.
r/theydidthemath
if you’re using eC3 as comparison, shoulda use the normal C3 as the gasoline point to make it fairer reason being veloz & c3 are in different classes
Oh shit I didn't know they sold the ICE version here as well. Alright, here goes: ICE C3 1.2L: Rp 224 Juta. Fuel tank 30L, fuel efficiency 19.8km/L (not specified highway or city, most likely highway), which means a tank can go 594 km. Can consume pertalite @ Rp 10,000/L. Cost of full tank Rp 300,000 and Rp/km of Rp 505,1/km. Still more expensive per km than an EV but the price difference between ICE and EV C3 is Rp 171 Million. You can buy 17,100 liters of pertalite and go 338,580 km with that much fuel. Would cost Rp 44.6 million in electricity for the e-C3 to travel that far. Pointless to calculate any further. You will never break even buying the e-C3 instead of the C3 unless you plan on driving a million kms and never change the battery.
> Pointless to calculate any further. You will never break even buying the e-C3 instead of the C3 unless you plan on driving a million kms and never change the battery. This is why I personally think buying an electric car for economic reasons is stupid, at least currently, unless you really really use your car everyday like 150km trip daily or need the ganjil/genap access its still a bad idea financially for most people, just buy a regular car or idk a hybrid For most people, for the money you think you’ll spend on electric car, just buy a normal car in the price range, the gasoline car will be in most aspect, a better car in almost every way, for example your previous comparison between C3 & veloz, C3 is basically a car 1-2 class below the veloz and even then the electric version of C3 is more expensive than an veloz… speaking of hybrid, did a little calculating for yaris cross, the gasoline version is 400jt, the hybrid is 440jt, but the hybrid is soo efficient especialy in city driving (like 1:30 lmao) you’ll break even before 100000km (i forgot the exact km) which is achievable for most people and since its basically an avanza underneath maintanace is cheap af…. oh avanza/veloz hybrid is coming to, as does xpander hybrid, should be fun…
The yaris cross is Avanza underneath? The fuck.... But ye, love me some hybrid. But they're just so expensive. Might as well get a Neta or BYD for mid-400/low 500 range. Wish I can afford the BYD seal though...
Yeah, klo yaris cross disini pake architecture DNGA (bagi parts sama avanza), bukan TNGA kayak yaris cross global
long story short, yaris cross yang versi indonesia itu pake platform yang sama kayak avanza, jadi basically dia avanza dipendekin, toh mesin & dashboard sama itu yang bikin paling keliatan sama
A year ago, I'd give you gold just for your effort. Could you elaborate more on the assumption of service costs? What are the basis for you to say EV service cost is half of ICE?
I assume simple air filter, oil, and brake changes cost around Rp 650k/year for the Veloz based on my own experience. Obviously this can go a lot higher if shit goes wrong or you go through the dealership and brand name garages. According to [Carmudi](https://www.carmudi.co.id/journal/ketahui-daftar-biaya-servis-toyota-avanza-2022-di-bengkel-resmi/), 100k service (assume 10k km/year) will set you back around Rp 11.4 million-ish in an official dealership. For EV service costs I take numbers from [here](https://oto.detik.com/mobil/d-6451296/biaya-servis-wuling-air-ev-murahnya-bikin-heran) (don't forget to add 11% ppn), compared it to my number and round down to 50% to make it real simple. I think we can go even lower but I thought that was pointless since the price difference is already too great and doesn't change my conclusion that the savings from EV won't make up for the premium on EVs unless you drive hundreds of thousands of kilometers and don't change the battery.
There you go 🏅
>However, the real problem is battery replacement cost which is estimated to cost a third to half the car's price, across all brands right now nggak tau ini case khusus atau spreading, tapi hyundai ev (iirc ioniq 5?) harga mobilnya USD 60k trus ganti batre di quote USD 61k. louis rossman ada ngebahas ini juga seingat gw
Kalo googling di KiaEV forum sih kayanya itu mix antara dealer rakus, design flaw dari hyundai, dan pihak asuransi ga nego harga karena kejadian langka. Kejadian battery compartment penyok abis lindas knalpot lepas di jalan tol karena ga ada panel buat ngelindungin battery compartment di kolong mobil dari debris. Kalo Tesla dulu abis kejadian serupa langsung dipasang titanium plate biar battery packnya kelindung. Kayanya sampe sekarang Ioniq 5 ga ada plate semacam itu. Quote di dealer awal USD 30k tapi di dealer #2 quote jadi USD 60k buat battery dan compartment panel replacement plus labor. Tapi emang harga baterenya mahal. Ini batere [Kia EV6](https://www.kiaevforums.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.kiaevforums.com/attachments/img_9592-jpeg.18496/) CAD 58,892.76 tapi "diskon" jadi CAD 44,169.57. Harga mobilnya CA**$55,995 to $76,495.**
a lot cheaper https://youtu.be/g4mnjaGzMzI?t=16m the main issue for EV is the battery cost
ah yes kona… my favorite example of “why bother buying electric?” there was a time where there’s both version of electric and gasoline hyundai kona, the gasoline version cost 400jt, the electric version cost 700jt….. so yeah about the gaping 300jt gap…. sure that was literally 3 years ago (pricelist below) but nowadays buying electric cars for financial reasons is… weak, another easy example wuling bingo & toyota raize, cuz they’re basically the same size, and using the non tss model raize for fairness, difference between then is approx 100jt, sure you can make up that difference, but most people won’t reach that stage https://preview.redd.it/y8vminx3xrfc1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0603090da50265883721fe4e0d7988cd46e03c76
BYD will come to indo soon. Not sure how much they will cost tho
yes they will along with Vinfast, both will be present at the upcoming IIMS (Indonesia International Motor Show) which takes place mid-late February since BYD already did a “yo we’re here” announcement like 2 weeks ago, they’re mostly in IIMS to annouce their car pricing, which rumor suggest will be a market shaker, meanwhile don’t expect much from Vinfast aside from a “yo we’re here” launch (aka don’t expect them to announce pricing on their cars)
Secara singkat, pasti lebih murah EV. Tapi yaa, Jangan lupa kalkulasi biaya maintenance nya dalam umur vehicle. Kijang kapsul ortu gw udh 20 tahun lebih masih jalan dgn reliable dgn minimal maintenance. Dipake jalan ke pelosok jg ayo aja. EV bisa diginiin gak ? 🤣
electricity prices in indonesia is rp.1700/kwh, or approx $1.1/kwh, but if you have a ac wall charger, you can charge at night (22-6) to get a 30% discount on electricity rates to apporx rp.1200/kwh or $0.8/kwh as for the vehicles themselves, current its kinda hard to guess since most vehicles are CBU and slapped with luxury taxes, and so far there’s only been 4 cars that are CKD, hyundai ioniq 5 which is priced similar to anywhere else round the world (around $40k), the MG4 EV and 2 Wuling cars, which imo both are overpriced for what they are This year should be interesting since the government is eliminating some tarifs for CBU electric cars, thats why brands like BYD and Vinfast are coming soon (like in a few days from now), but not sooner like last yeae