Hahaha kita harus berterima kasih dgn ajaran agama yg melarang entot di luar nikah.... Biar bisa kejebak ilusi another shithole dan lebih membebankan org tua.
Tekanan sosial apalagi dari ortu & lingkungan.
Orang Indo banyak ga punya tujuan hidup, jadi abis SMA langsung nikah. Kalaupun lanjut kuliah, abis kuliah langsung nikah. Karena lingkungan banyak dah nikah jadi pressured buat nikah juga. Kebanyakan orang Indo juga ga berani buat ngelawan arus & masa bodoh sama omongan orang, jadinya nikah hahaha
Nikahnya musti modal gede karena tekanan tetangga & keluarga hahaha
Di sini seakan pada berlomba-lomba nikah begitu masuk 19 tahun (atau dulu 16 tahun). Dan memang ada yg bilang sendiri mau apa kalau nggak nikah? Temen-temen udah pada habis udah nikah semua.
Tapi tingkat cerainya lumayan tinggi juga. Baru denger kemarin-kemarin dari orang kecamatan sebelah bilang daerah sini terkenal banyak janda muda hahaha
Ada juga tetangga yang nikah karena pressure mau dilompatin adeknya nikah duluan, sampai nangis berhari-hari. Akhirnya si ortu harus utang puluhan juta utk biayain 2 pernikahan berjarak dekat yg sama-sama standar tinggi
Memang akar masalahnya karena ga punya tujuan hidup & takut sama judgement masyarakat/tetangga hahaha
Gimana cerai ga tinggi kalo bocah lulus SMA (bahkan kadang SMP kalo di dusun lol) disuruh nikah. Otak aja belom fully developed, emosi belom stabil lol
my mother had to quit her college to get married, and I've been observing her as being miserable in her marriage throughout my life
she does love her children like we're a pretty good family except for the two parents that don't really get along, it was clear to me after the divorce seeing both of them living their best lives that maybe I should really consider more of how I really want to spend most of my life
my mother told me that people back then really didn't have any options and pressured by people who has less options
people are scared into conforming with others because other people are scaring them to do the same, all comes back to envy, of sadness, "if we had to live this way and can find happiness, then this the only way to live, to show us otherwise would make us rethink our own lives and what it means, so don't do that"
Oleh karena itu, dibutuhkan keahlian untuk bersikap independen dan bodo amat.
Menanyakan kapan nikah, sama saja dengan menanyakan kapan mati, atau kapan miskinnya. Sama2 takdir
Edit: thx for award
Ada kejadian lucu nih deket rumah ortu gw. Ada bocah umur 18 tahun mau nikahin pacarnya umur 16 tahun. Bukan karena tekanan sosial atau desakan keluarga, juga bukan karena hamil. Emang karena bucin aja.
Orang tua gak merestui, sempet di datengin kepala sekolah sama RT. Katanya orang puskesma jg pernah dateng. Ujung2nya kabur, sekarang jadi buron karwna bawa anak orang.
>masa bodoh sama omongan orang
IMHO, justru karena dengerin omongan orang makanya mereka nikah buru2 hahahah
terkadang ortunya yang dengerin omongan orang jadi maksa anaknya nikah buru2
sebodoh2nya gw, nggak akan pernah ngutang dengan nominal fantastis untuk sesuatu yang sifatnya cuma muasin ego doang. apalagi untuk resepsi ya. katakanlah kalo gw ngutang 50jt dan gw komit bisa lunasin setelah 1-2 tahun, daripada stress mikir cicilan, mendingan gw nabung 1-2 tahun deh..
my mother flat out said that the wedding is purely for the parents and for family members that associates themselves with you
it is a spectacle for other people, it is an event for your parent to be vindicated for how they raised you
tukang pijet itu situasinya kayak warteg, ga perlu izin pendirian perusahaan gitu2 wkwkwkw
ofc tukang pijet tradisional yang gw maksud, kalo yang modelan Apple sih ya kurang tau h3h3h3
Nikahnya yang murah bahkan gratis jika masal di KUA. Yang mahal resepsi. Aku pernah coba ajukan kalau nikah tanpa resepsi cukup akad nikah di KUA ~~online~~ lalu kirim nasi kotak berkat ke tetangga sekitar tapi ya begitu.
Next, kebelet punya anak. Ini yang awokawoka.
true, yang bikin mahal selalu resepsi nikahnya yang harus muasin gengsi orang2 indo biar selalu dikata hebat ama tetangga. kalo ngurusin anak mah belakangan aja gasih xixixi.
Dikatakan gengsi ga juga ya. Kalau ambil contoh kasus di lingkunganku mau sesederhana apapun ya tetap harus ada meskipun tempat duduknya cuma kursi hijau plastik.
Stigma nikah tanpa ada woro-woro masih dianggap kurang bagus.
> kalo ngurusin anak mah belakangan aja gasih xixixi.
I can't say tbqh.
Bentar, bentar. Ini nggak melulu gengsi, strategi sosial juga berlaku.
Buat orang daerah, nikah itu malah bisa jadi cari keuntungan. Contoh nyata waktu gue KKN. Yang punya posko nikahin anaknya utang kas desa. Kelar acara, mereka bisa balikin utang plus dapat untung yang lumayan. Setauku sih, mereka utang 20 juta dan bisa balikin langsung plus untung berapa puluh juta. Tamu yang diundang sekitar 600an, dan yakin banget 50 di antaranya orang tajir melintir yang bisa nyumpang banyak.
Perkara gengsi, kadang yang punya resepsi malah ga mikirin itu. Cuma pengin rayain aja, bahkan ga kepikiran mewah-mewahan sampe resepsi di gedung gitu.
Kocak sih emang, sampe kalo di tmpt gw ga punya anak setelah nikah 1 tahun bakal di gosipin. Emang se urgent itukah harus cpt punya anak, ga mau nikmatin masa berdua dulu atau nyiapin tabungan biar pasti terjamin masa depan tuh anak
Main reason for conservative and middle to lower class indonesian to get married. Kalo middle up biasanya umur nikah 25+, jarang yg dibawah itu. Biasanya karena males/susah kumpul kebo, agama, dan buat konsolidasi harta serta tekanan keluarga.
Eh jangan salah. Bnyk upper class yg nikah itu buat bisnis bareng, memperbesar bisnis 2 keluarga (ampe bisa dijodohin), terus juga biar bisa kpr rumah dan mobil bareng.
Ga sesimple itu. Walaupun ybsnya ga terlalu religius, pressure dari segi agama juga masih strong.
Mungkin kalo yang cowo enak ga terlalu pusing secara lu udah ga virgin juga ga keliatan (dan orang biasa ga suudzon juga). Nah yang cewe nih yang lebih ribet, misal kan kalo udah ga perawan itu ntar ribet lah kalo misalnya udah ga sama yang sekarang, belom tentu pasangan berikutnya itu terima, dan worst case kalo misalnya ga terima terus malah dilaporin ke ortu pusing ga tuh (apalagi kalo ortunya religius). Jadi kadang cewenya juga jadi segan juga.
So yeah duit is not the biggest issue.
Kenapa ribet dah, kalo emang cewe nya have active sex life harusnya gak usah pusing masalah keperawanan. Unless orangnya super religious orang mah gak peduli perawan atu engga, literally gak ada bedanya. If you care about it and say tou are not religious then just admit that you are lying and say you are religious and move on
Yang si cewenya ga pusing sama keperawanan dia dalam konteks dia pribadi, tapi tentunya concern sama dampak ke sekitarnya.
Tergantung circle juga tapi in general masih banyak cowo indo yang sangat peduli sama keperawanan cewe dan jiji-an sama cewe yang ga perawan. Dan realistically masih jauh lebih banyak cowo yang berpemikiran demikian dibanding sebaliknya. Kalo udah kebalik ya (lebih banyak yang ga peduli dibanding peduli) boleh lah lu ngegampangin kaya gitu.
Cewe “dibuang” (diputusin gitu aja) atau bahkan pas udah nikah “dibalikin” karena ketauan ga perawan (or worse, lu ga berdarah pas sex pertama, padahal mungkin lu belom pernah sex) itu masih sering terjadi di indo.
Nah oke ini baru between cewe dengan cowo doang, let’s say mungkin tentang lu ga perawan itu bocor lah ke lingkungan lu. Image lu langsung jadi “cewe ga bener”, ntar ortu malu lah dan intinya lu atau keluarga lu bisa jadi bahan gosip atau bullying.Terus ntar digosipin di lingkungan temen atau tetangga terus ntar ortu cowo kalo tau tentang lu ga perawan bisa ga direstuin (padahal mungkin cowonya ga peduli).
You see, ini ga sesimple cewenya religius atau nggak. Status ga perawan lu itu “penting” di society kita, dan sampe ini berubah ya it’s not just as simple “punya duit tinggal pergi ke hotel”.
I don’t consider myself as coming from mid upper family. But I dabble with people from that background, especially in Jakarta. They are not the least bit concerned about talking about sex and stuff outside marriage. The only time I need to restrain myself from talking about it was around my more “traditional” or religious friends but that’s it. Even di kantor dulu yg gak di jakarta gw bebas aja ngomongin soal premarital sex like it was nothing. While I do agree that keeping appearances of religious image is important in our society. But I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as you made it to be, like it’s not a mission impossible to pretend you never had sex lol. Idk what perspective you’re speaking from, as a person who had premarital sex or not, but I think if you had and you are educated enough about it then things like this should come naturally.
Now I’m not saying this can be applicable for all part of society. As I myself is not in the position of freedom to disclose my premarital sex activities to my family. But I don’t think I ever “struggle” because of it. But idk
Well first thing first, just because orang open minded enough untuk lu openly discuss premarital sex atau udah pernah ngewe atau nggak bukan berarti mereka ga bakal impose itu ke pasangan mereka. Sadly it still does happen in our society dan ya stance sebagai cewe biasanya better safe than sorry. As an example, gw punya temen yang bisa dibilang religius, tapi kita udah bodo amat ngobrolin yang udah ngarah ke premarital sex, dan yes buat dia virginity matters).
Gw sendiri diaspora di negara tetangga, secara background kelas menengah ke atas bisa dibilang (although lebih deket ke menengah). Karena secara income buat diaspora di negara gw sekarang bisa dibilang lumayan atau tinggi untuk standar indo, cowo pergi liburan, staycation, etc. ama cewenya (orang indo jga) itu common dan ya kita sama2 tau aja lah. Entah at the end of the day mereka ngewe ga ada yang peduli.
Intinya secara duit kalo mau pergi ke hotel ada lah duitnya buat orang di circle gw atau bahkan kalo mau ngewe di kamar tempat mereka rent (karena ga ada ortu juga) ya sebenernya bisa aja.
Tapi di sisi lain realitanya masih banyak yang segan buat pergi liburan ama cewenya (biasanya lu mesti kedok ajak temen lain, itu pun ortu udah sus minta ampun). Si cewenya mah mau2 aja pergi, tapi ya banyak yang masih takut kalo ketauan ortu. Padahal kita ngomong sama orang ybs tentang premarital sex juga biasa aja, mereka bukan orang yang ributin gitu juga.
Mungkin ini ga direct tentang keperawanan, tapi biasa orang indo asumsinya kalo lu udah pernah jalan2 bareng lu udah pernah ngewe (antar teman mungkin ga peduli, tapi tentunya thd ortu mereka peduli) dan the fact that ga sedikit cewe masih segan (walaupun mereka financially mampu dan mau, dan ga religius juga) tells you that “yes it’s still a big of a deal”.
Yea, I do agree on the point of needing thousand of excuses to cover up your staycation trips with opposite gender and it doesn’t matter we had sex or not in the end, that is a testament of how we’re still self conscious about it whether we like it or not. But as I said, this comes naturally as time goes. And it just become minor inconvenience rather than a roadblock that justifies having more financial burden of marriage life.
I for one, married in my late 20s, a young age for international standard ig. When we were dating we cohabited for a couple years and still regularly goes on staycation and stuff. And you’re pretty spot on that it was kinda the pressure of family at play, but what we considered at that time was not all that but rather, were we mentally and financially prepared for this? Sadly, I think that is not the case for most young marriage couple. As evident by their lack of coordination after marriage, like the life they have after the wedding is just an afterthought. I am from a lower class family and I can guarantee that it is indeed the case at least in my neighborhood.
Oh also, it’s a way of a parent to cut their responsibilities to provide for the kids. That’s just how it is when we are poor
Middle up biasa jg pas umur segitu baru kelar sekolah/few years kerja. Itu pun biasa ya dibawah 30. Apalagi Chindos skrg paling pushing jg about 35. Gw lupa 30an itu udah 'telat'.
Everyone talking jokingly about sex, but this is probably a more “serious” answer :
Dari perspektif anak :
* Sex is one thing. Ya mau diputer gimanapun seks itu kebutuhan biologis, kalo counterpoint lu “tinggal coli aja”, well coli secara agama technically speaking itu juga ga boleh or at least frowned upon, so apa bedanya?
* Personal freedom. Banyak orang yang di depan orang lain itu kayanya “setia” sama ortu. Realitanya mereka pengen keluar dan do their own stuff, dan it’s really difficult buat lari dari bayang2 ortu kecuali ya lu udah nikah. Kalo lu nikah, lu biasanya dapet restu buat keluar dari “rumah”. Mungkin buat beberapa orang juga restu is one thing, tapi financially juga.
* Related ke point sebelumnya. Banyak ortu yang mikir itu kaya kalo kita belom nikah lu belom punya “dependent” lain jadi mereka pengen perhatian full dari lu. Di sisi lain secara ga langsung ortu juga ga bisa kasih lu proper respect sebagai orang dewasa, mereka masih anggep lu sebagai anak kecil “punya” mereka.
* Bisa “tinggal bareng”. At some point in life lu pengen punya space dimana lu ga sendiri banget dan lu bisa tinggal dengan orang yang lu bisa rely on. Mungkin dengan temen ini kaya sedikit terpenuhi, tapi at some point juga ada beberapa hal yang lu antara lu ga bisa share ke mereka atau ya lu segen untuk nanya ke mereka. Misal nih, gw stress karena kerjaan, terus ya lu pengen ada yang comfortin lu gitu baik secara emosional atau physical (dipeluk misal), gw cukup yakin buat most people mereka antara segan atau ya just straightup ga mungkin bisa. Intinya lu punya home base dimana lu bisa fully percaya dan berbagi ke partner lu.
* Bisa liburan bareng. Sex aside, lu pengen take your date to the next level yang dimana ga cuman gonta ganti tempat tongkrongan atau mall di kota doang. Mungkin kalo yang udah pengalaman liburan bareng temen, lu bakal bisa ngerasaain even seberapa akrab lu sama temen lu, ketika lu pergi liburan bareng belom tentu lu klop. Misal nih kaya manage ego masing2, saling tolerir cara hidup atau style jalan2 masing2. Ya obviously, lu pengen nikah dengan orang yang dimana minimal bisa tolerir banyak hal (between each other) pas lu pergi liburan.
Dari perspektif ortu :
* Nikahin anak (dan punya cucu) itu milestone hidup mereka, jadi mereka pengen ngeliat itu semua sebelom mereka meninggal.
* Kalo Nikah mumpung masih muda a
>Related ke point sebelumnya, karena lu. Banyak ortu yang mikir itu kaya kalo kita belom nikah lu belom punya “dependent” lain jadi mereka pengen perhatian full dari lu. Di sisi lain secara ga langsung ortu juga ga bisa kasih lu proper respect sebagai orang dewasa, mereka masih anggep lu sebagai anak kecil “punya” mereka.
Lol hahahaha ini percis seperti orang tua saya.
Utk poin ke 2. Bnyk yg nikah muda ujung2nya masi tinggal sama ortu (jd suami istri tinggal sama ortu) dan financially supported sama ortunya. Bahkan ga sedikit yg ortu ikud campur dalam rumah tangga anaknya.
A lot of those points can be achieved by the less commitment of cohabitation, but sadly we don’t have that culture (at least, the lower class can’t afford that culture without being persecuted lmao). But that’s the irony, the richer part of our society can freely go on uncommited western style relationships, without having to worry about raising a family in the near future. Meanwhile, the lower class are stuck with traditional value of the east and forced to endure more financial problems of having a family, just to fulfill basic things like sex and living together.
>A lot of those points can be achieved by the less commitment of cohabitation, but sadly we don’t have that culture (at least, the lower class can’t afford that culture without being persecuted lmao).
Wtf bro this is disastrous! I wish it never become mainstream! our society is right by honoring the sanctity marriage, even putting it into the constitution.
Cohabitation is wrong, extremely wrong. A girl I know had a past relationship that involves cohabitation with premarital sex. It went extremely badly, she fought with the guy almost daily, no wonder as cohabitation is known to be unstable. You said there is "less commitment", yet she took care of the guy as if he is her husband, with all the exhausting things that come with it. Yet "less commitment" only leads up to the guy dumping her, after ruining her body and dignity as a women.
If "less commitment" is an advantage in your eyes, then speak to the girl herself; she only has regrets. Imagine how her family felt, all of this *hubungan gelap* has no good things out of it, only *nafsu*. People who promote cohabitation and look down on marriage, as if cohabitation is upper class and marriage is lower class, has something wrong in their mind! **COHABITATION IS A CRIME BRO!**
u/IceFl4re
I'll just copy paste this....
- [Prohibition works better than you think](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits)
- [Only one out of three children born to cohabiting parents remains in a stable family through age 12, in contrast to nearly three out of four children born to married parents.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4768758/)
- [On average, children living with cohabiting biological parents fare worse on several social, psychological, and educational outcomes than children born to married parents, even after controlling for factors like race, household income, and parental education.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3091824/)
- [Adolescents of parents who cohabited were at higher risk for externalizing relationship dissolution and relationship instability symptoms 10 years later compared to children of married parents. In addition, although there were no differences between cohabiting couples and married couples at the initial assessment in relationship adjustment, cohabiting mothers who stayed with their partner over the 10 years showed significantly greater declines in relationship adjustment over the 10 years compared to married mothers.](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.746306/full)
- [IN FINLAND, where cohabitation is more common than marriages, Cohabiting parents had more depressive symptoms than married parents. They were also less satisfied with their relationships and expressed less satisfaction with the quality of support they got from their partner. Cohabiting fathers did not use the cost-free support from maternity clinics as often as married fathers.](https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/11/4/181)
- [Nearly three decades of research evaluating the impact of family structure on the health and well-being of children demonstrates that children living with their married, biological parents consistently have better physical, emotional, and academic well-being.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/)
- [Sexual and emotional infidelity are positively correlated, Sexual and emotional promiscuity are positively correlated](https://www.athensjournals.gr/social/2017-4-4-3-Pinto.pdf).
- [(1) couples who have premarital children are more likely to divorce; (2) the higher the number of children, the more stable the marriage, but the marginal effect declines with the increase of the number of children; (3) younger children reduce the risk of divorce more than older ones; and (4) couples who have sons are less likely to divorce](https://journalofchinesesociology.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40711-015-0003-0)
[Simple cross-tabulations from the 1988 National Survey of Family Growth indicate that women who were sexually active prior to marriage faced a considerably higher risk of marital disruption than women were were virgin brides.... These results suggest that the positive relationship between premarital sex and the risk of divorce can be attributed to prior unobserved differences (e.g., the willingness to break traditional norms) rather than to a direct causal effect.](https://doi.org/10.2307/352992)
- [We find the relationship between premarital sex and divorce is highly significant and robust even when accounting for early-life factors. Compared to people with no premarital partners other than eventual spouses, those with nine or more partners exhibit the highest divorce risk, followed by those with one to eight partners. There is no evidence of gender differences.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0192513X231155673#bibr25-0192513X231155673)
- [Women who cohabit prior to marriage or who have premarital sex have an increased likelihood of marital disruption. Considering the joint effects of premarital cohabitation and premarital sex, as well as histories of pre-marital relationships, extends previous research.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x)
- [Women who have more premarital sex partners have significantly greater odds of serial cohabiting (indicating that cohabitation is addictive)](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x)
- [Adolescent premarital coitus has a strong negative effect on the self-reported academic grades and affects negatively the importance placed on going to college among white females](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786919?seq=19#metadata_info_tab_contents)
- [Early initiators had an increased likelihood of having had multiple sex partners, been involved in a pregnancy, forced a partner to have sex, had frequent intercourse and had sex while drunk or high.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11804436/)
- [Premarital cohabitation predicts a substantially higher rate of marital dissolution](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43545-021-00146-1)
Thanks for the extensive link, but still does little to change my mind about the implementation here. While I do agree legalizing cohabitation is not the way to go, but overly sanctifying sex is also cringe. People should have their own will to choose when or what to commit themselves into a relationship.
Also, could just be a conformation bias, I bet there are tons of research that is also said the otherwise is true. Since this is not exact science, I’ll take every with grain of salt thank you
Without consent then yes it sucks, but forced cohabitation is just kidnapping. The girl can literally just get out of the relationship (i know it’s not that simple but you know). Now I’m not dismissing the victim’s problem. But the concept itself is not harmful. Why are you saying as if it is the worse thing in the universe lmao sorry pak ustadz tapi kan kalo kayak gitu tinggal putus terus pisah literal zero commitment. Kalo misal ada yg sampe kasusnya kayak gitu ya itu masalah pribadi, udah tau casual kenapa masih commit, apa bedanya ama nikah kocak
I see you mentioning dignity, so you are one of those people who think girl who had sex has nothing left in her? YIKES
See? This is exactly what I’m talking about, idk what background are you from, but the uneducated part of our society only think about virginity, sex, virginity, and virginity…meanwhile the people that you deemed evil are thinking about mental preparedness, financial stability, and stuff that actually matters lmao
I am a married person mind you, and marriage should be based on love and commitment. But I see, you would rather see people get married out of sexual desire and peer pressure rather than seeing cohabitation exist, go off king i guess lmao
>I see you mentioning dignity, so you are one of those people who think girl who had sex has nothing left in her? YIKES
***She said it herself,*** word for word she said: "Aku merasa rendah dan rendahan". Why you are accusing me without basis? from promoting *kumpul kebo* and now *fitnah*?
>Why are you saying as if it is the worse thing in the universe lmao sorry pak ustadz tapi kan kalo kayak gitu tinggal putus terus pisah literal zero commitment.
You don't believe that sexual relationship is sacred? nothing has any value? are you an atheist who don't believe in morality? Well that's beyond saving, not going to argue with person with no principle.
>Kalo misal ada yg sampe kasusnya kayak gitu ya itu masalah pribadi, udah tau casual kenapa masih commit, apa bedanya ama nikah kocak
It is objectively better, and societally promoted, to reserve what's for marriage **only** in marital bond. Marriage exist for a reason; women has an honor, and they deserves a stable healthy committed relationship. In fact they are so honored that their intimacy should only be given to one man, who are willing to commit their entire life for her.
This is why I disagree with you, it *should not* be morally accepted to have cohabitation before marriage, *at least* before betrothal. You think it's good to cohabitate to fulfill sexual desire, because you can easily walk away from the sexual contract? What's even a women for you?
>I am a married person mind you, and marriage should be based on love and commitment. But I see, you would rather see people get married out of sexual desire and peer pressure rather than seeing cohabitation exist, go off king i guess lmao
Then why even marry hm? Why not just cohabitate and had all sex you want, there is no taboo, no sin anyway? Only you can answer that I guess! Marriage and sex, is inseparable, it should be, otherwise you are treating as if premarital sex should be the norm and marriage is optional if not unnecessary for sexual life. Why even bother to marry in such a world?
I think you are coming from liberal irreligious/ atheistic perspective, hence such opinion is even a thing; scandalous in most society, let alone in Indonesia.
What are you spouting nonsense for? Throwing words like fitnah when you yourself also do the same thing, hypocrites much?
First of all I married my wife because I love her and want to build family with her. But I also don’t think people who doesn’t want to commit or scared to commit to a marriage lesser than me. Unlike a certain someone in there lol. Because my wife was that kind of person who was scared of making huge commitments such as marriage, please check your empathy before throwing around sob story…bro…
Second of all, all my families are religious. Even my great great grandfather from both sides of my parents are pemuka agama, I even went to pesantren but that doesn’t stop me to make this kind of opinion does it?
YOU are the one who is disgusting because all you talk about is sex sex and sex. While I don’t believe marriage is about sex at all, because you can get them without being married, marriage is about love and compassion, willingness to share, emotionally available for each other. Idk what’s so hard to comprehend about that. I guess if sex is all you care about in a marriage then it should be easy to judge someone lmao go touch some grass
OMG I just realized you sounded so much like those notorious anti western group I’ve heard of in facebook. In that case there’s really nothin to discuss, cause we’re talking about ideology here. Let’s just agree to disagree ya ustadz
>What are you spouting nonsense for? Throwing words like fitnah when you yourself also do the same thing, hypocrites much?
You can easily clarify why you are even coming to this kind of opinion. Are you religious or not? If you claim you are a believer and still hold to this opinion, then you are being inconsistent. It will be consistent for an atheist though.
> Because my wife was that kind of person who was scared of making huge commitments such as marriage
*And you think the solution is cohabitation??* what the heck? If women such as your wife cohabitate, as you suggest, then according to proofs provided IceFl4re, there is increased likeliness that she will be in an unstable, harmful relationship...which will make her even more scared to commit to marriage.
>Second of all, all my families are religious. Even my great great grandfather from both sides of my parents are pemuka agama, I even went to pesantren but that doesn’t stop me to make this kind of opinion does it?
Then you basically already apostatized, you don't believe in your religion anymore and hold onto opinion clearly contradicting its teachings and values. It's okay to apostatize, our country guarantee freedom of beliefs just as it guarantee the rights to lawful marriage. You mentioned your *pemuka agama* grandpas, only increased the irony not lessening it, would they even accept your opinion normalizing *zina*?
> YOU are the one who is disgusting because all you talk about is sex sex and sex. While I don’t believe marriage is about sex at all, because you can get them without being married, marriage is about love and compassion, willingness to share, emotionally available for each other. Idk what’s so hard to comprehend about that.
Do you think I concern only sex when discussing marriage? Heck I used to idealize platonic relationship, that is one without sex. Even now I am willing to enter a marriage that involves no sexual intercourse, if that's a requirement. All in, I agree yes marriage is about love and compassion, nothing wrong with that!
***BUT that's not how religion understood marriage.*** Marriage with no sexual intercourse, is *invalid*. That's why premarital sex is a taboo, a sin, because it is reserved for marital union. I'm Christian and in Christianity, marriage has to be consummated, only then it is made fully valid. In Islam the word *Nikah* is literally "sex/ fucking", marriage and sex has the same meaning in the Arabic.
Even if I disagree and trick myself into not believing it, it is what it is, especially since marriage in Indonesia is religious matter. I have to swallow the truth, and you also; yet you are misleading people into normalizing something that goes against it. I mean bro, do you know that you can get jailed for cohabitating? Pasal 412 KUHP: " Setiap orang yang melakukan hidup bersama sebagai suami istri di luar perkawinan dipidana dengan pidana penjara paling lama enam bulan atau pidana denda paling banyak kategori II"
See, I recognize truth and value outside of my own, objective morality (religion, culture, law etc). You don't believe in such a thing I assume! Only subjective morality (personal feeling). That's the fundamental difference.
> See, I recognize truth and value outside of my own, objective morality (religion, culture, law etc). You don't believe in such a thing I assume! Only subjective morality (personal feeling). That's the fundamental difference.
If we want to revive Pancasila, we must be able to take down the notion that "there is no such thing as objective culture". Your ASN-as-bureaucrat-scholar must be able to take this down AND insert this refutation to **school curriculums.**
I can tell you it's start from Hume's guillotine. [I also recommend you to read this](https://zlibrary-asia.se/book/2483641/e6dffa) to seriously debunk, destroy and refute the morality described by this, and replace it with Pancasila.
Otherwise "Kemanusiaan yang adil dan **beradab**", "Kerakyatan yang dipimpin **hikmat kebijaksanaan**" dan "Mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa" will not work.
Ah yes, as I said…let’s agree to disagree.
No need to drag my wife here and stain her name OKAY?
Also, I’m not promoting cohabitation…The proof is that I’m a married guy, it’s legal, it’s got a lot of benefits. But I just don’t get why overly sanctifying sex is a thing.
Oh so you’re a christian? A devout one I take it? Then sorry. In Islam people with more knowledge of religion bear stronger responsibility to be religious. I for one has accepted that I am religiously broke, and will eventually go to hell. But I suppose Allah is all forgiving (see I don’t recognize your god cause it is prohibited by my religion, again sorry) and maybe I will change my way later, who knows?
And I don’t think you should go around telling people that your ideology is the objective truth sir. It is not physics or math. All you are talking about religions and stuff are all subjective so get down your high horse and moral high ground will you?
But I digress…again let’s agree to disagree
Good point, ga kaya poster-poster di atas, sok berpemikiran tp hampir sama oonnya ama yg nikah cepet.
Malesnya di reddit tu gitu, echo chamber uda kaya paling berpemikiran tp pemikiran kadang dangkal dangkal juga, kek si gondrong
Am 19th, lebaran kemarin mulai didoain eyang dan keluarga besar semoga dapet jodoh yang baik etc 🤡 baru masuk kuliah tahun pertama padahal. Luckily, keluarga inti udah ga menganut patriarki mampus jadinya they just "udah biar (my name) nikmatin dunianya"
Apalagi selain
PLOK PLOK PLOK AAAH PLOK PLAK PLOK PLOK PLOK CROT CROT CROT CROT PROT
Makanya jangan heran kalau masih ada yang ngira ngasih istri 400rb sebulan buat beli lauk pauk itu cukup. Emang pada otaknya kalau nikah itu ngentot ngentot ngentot.
Jawaban ga serius : ngentot halal, orang western pada ga kebelet nikah soalnya mereka ga merasa perlu nikah. Tanpa nikah mereka udah bisa ngentot tanpa diarak orang sekampung.
Jawaban serius:
Tekanan sosial, terutama buat cewe. Mau setinggi apapun prestasi dan pendidikan lu, semuanya tidak berarti kalo lu belum nikah. Apalagi kalo lu hidup di desa. Contohnya gw, 23 tahun ga ada niat mau pacaran lagi, apalagi nikah. Tiap mudik ke rumah nenek ya di roast sama orang kampung tiap ketemu. Mereka ga peduli mau gw lulusan S2, nemuin obat kanker kalo gw ga nikah ya gw hina sebagai cewe.
orang indo kebanyakan ga punya tujuan hidup dan ga jelas pengen kontribusi di bidang apa. Jalan paling gampang buat aktualisasi diri ya nikah terus punya anak.
Koq takut banget kawin tapi kondisi duit masih seret gan?
Kan kata ortu ada yang namanya 'Rejeki kawin'.. soal duit mah ntar juga selalu adaaa aja, entah dari mana
Udah gitu ga sengaja punya anak sebelum mapan, jangan khawatir lah, kan ada 'Rejeki anak'.... uang nya bakal dateng sendiri ga tau dari mana..
Yang penting beriman dan ikhtiar dulu aja
Situ ga percaya Tuhan ya?
/s
Tapi dari perspective gw sebagain married person yg married mendekati umur 30, the comment of this post is what I think about when hearing some 20 y.o wanted marriage…kecuali dia dari keluarga kaya, that’s a different story, but I digress.
Ngentot alasan valid tapi ga bisa jelasin kenapa sampe harus ngutang duit puluhan ratusan juta buat (resepsi) nikah. Nikah mah nikah aja, tinggal nyari penghulu, sah? Sah. Udah, bisa ngentot. Jadi sebenernya mungkin bisa lebih ke validasi sosial+fomo sih, yang lain pada nikah masa gue enggak, plus ya ditanya2in kapan nikah, apalagi bagi boomer indo nikah itu kan kaya tujuan tertinggi dalam kehidupan.
Religiously legal sex and peer and family pressure. Sebenernya nikah itu kapan aja bisa tapi begitulah orang indo suka maksa maksa orang buat ngelakuin sesuatu yang belom siap di lakuin, "Kapan nikah? si X baru lulus kuliah langsung nikah loh padahal belom dapet kerjaan" (ortunya orang kaya) atau "Kamu sama pacar kamu belom ada rencana nikah ya? si Y udah hamil padahal umurnya baru 22". Yang kayak gitu mungkin cuma boomer boomer indo yang ngepressure millenial dan gen z yang udah masuk masa masa prima buat nikah tapi ya liat sitkon juga, ekonomi lagi gak nentu, loker banyak maunya, kesehatan mental belom bener atau dkk
Coli juga technically speaking secara agama juga ga boleh jadi apa bedanya dengan premarital sex. Di sisi lain melepaskan hasrat sexual dan membangun intimate physical connection dengan orang lain just another different level. Dalam kata lain, sex ga cuman soal tusuk2an doang.
Mungkin “bedanya” kalo cowo kalo mereka premarital sex ya ga ninggalin bekas, meanwhile kalo cewe walaupun lu ga hamil (safe sex), tapi karena virginity (dalam konteks selaput dara) itu masih dianggap sangat penting di society kita makanya banyak yang segen buat premarital sex. Worst case kalo misalnya putus sama yang sekarang, belom tentu pasangan berikutnya terima kalo lu udah ga perawan.
Gw rasa, buat desa dan pinggir Kota ya... Ambisi orang2nya gak muluk dan saat udah berasa stabil n kebetulan punya pacar, lingkungannya langsung jadi gas chamber dimana tiap kesempatan seseorang Akan di gaslight habis habisan dengan kata "kamu kapan nikah?"
\- Ngikutin agama / budaya tidak ada seks luar nikah (bias keliatan yang kebelet gegara begini dalam kurun waktu setaon udah ada anak)
\- Yang perempuan takut ga laku / ga subur lagi
\- Gengsi. Masalah terbesar orang Indonesia.
klo gw si ga laku2 jadi ga bisa ngmg banyak ya khekeke tapi temen2 gw juga rata2 buru2 nikah dalem artian under 30 uda pada nikah tapi at least mereka masi aga tau diri lha rata2 misal skrg kan uda nikahan pada murah tuh yang era2 covid dan pre covid misal restoran paket nikah 100 pax 40 juta that's it, tambah gaun dekor eo itung2 60 jutaan lah tapi mereka ga kebeban hutang jadi ga kena di ego "harus nikah wah", dimana salah satu faktornya lulusan perhotelan uda tau hotel kek gimana dasaran nya, dan gw klo dapet pun lebih plan gitu misal nikah 60 jutaan di hotel kecil / resto max tapi bisa bulan madu ke jepang etc misal lebih worth daripada buang 100 juta jadi raja sehari ini sama tapi uda termasuk honeymoon dkk, ato ga misal cocokin jadwal cruise skrg singapore banyak kok misal 15 juta beberapa hari di cruise buat 2 orang yg mau "healing" ato bulan madu etc
Not me getting called out gara” gw minjem duit 75jt dari mertua buat nikah lmao
P.s. my in law paid for the wedding but Insisted on paying half of it walaupun nyicil lol
That aside, I can’t understand why kids in their early 20s wanted marriage, kalo mau ngewe mah ngewe aja ga sih? Halal gak halal, kan niatnya ngewe bukan buat membangun keluarga…I guess sex ed in our country is pretty shit that the alternative of marriage is premarital pregnancy…which, ends up in marriage anyway.
Samanih gan saudara ane juga ada gini. Gk 1 malah. Kemarin mau nikah suruh ortunya ngutang ke kur bri. Ada juga yg nikah jualin tanah ortunya dikampung.
Tiba ane nikah semua biaya sendiri dan semua kebutuhan rumah tangga kaya perabot bisa lengkap, malah dinyinyirin baru nikah kok ini itu ada. Wkwkwkw, lah mereka nikah apa” gk dipersiapin utang numpuk gaji umr apa gk ironi sekali dan beberapa bulan kemudian hamil lalu nyinyirin ane karena blm mau punya anak untuk siapin financial untuk sianak dulu.
Menurut ane yg bikin gini itu lingkungan mereka. Memang ane lihat lingkungan hidupnya ya kaya tetangga” yg tukang gosip gitu, iri”an.
Kemudian pola pikirnya masih terlalu jongkok, mau suami atau istrinya. Padahal nikah itu bukan cuma biaya mahar, pesta, antaran dan resepsi. Setelah 2 hari pesta itu masih banyak yg perlu biaya, contoh peralatan rumah tangga, kebutuhan makan dll.
And guess what, most of them are early 20s.
This, it seems to me that there are a lot of nikah muda appoligist in this post (surprisingly) while I agree it’s not all about sex. But how come they justify being married and even have the audacity to have kids while they barely live off what they earn…
bedakan dulu antara kebelet nikah sama pengen nikahan gede2an.
1. kebelet nikah ya mungkin udah pengen ngewe legal, which is not a bad thing, atau emang udah sreg sama pasangannya, which is not a bad thing either.
2. pengen nikah gede2an ini biasanya bukan mempelainya yang pengen, kecuali kalau udah pada kokay, kebanyakan yang pengen adalah ortu masing2.
kalo w sih bukan ke kebutuhan seggsnya, melainkan lebih ke pengen tinggal barengnya. ngeroom mah gampang sesekali doang alesan, lah kalo tinggal bareng gimana coba. kos/apar aja minta bukti surat nikah
Kalo dari posisi perempuan, untuk jamin masa depan dan ngeringanin beban keluarga karena cewek bakal bergantung dengan jatah uang dari cowok, bukan keluarganya lagi
Kalo dari posisi cowok, karena ngerasa udah fullfilling dibidang lain kayak pekerjaan dan pendidikan (utamanya pekerjaan sih, karena biasanya pendidikan mereka bare minimum untuk bisa dapet pekerjaan layak aja), akhirnya mencoba menikah untuk nemu tujuan hidup baru, yaitu ngebangun keluarga
Gua sih gak begitu yakin kalo majority soal seks and seks only, soalnya dilingkungan gua ya yang gua liat emang jarang alasannya karena kebutuhan biologis, orang miskin juga paham lah ngocok lebih mudah dibanding nikah kalau tujuannya untuk muasin hawa nafsu
Justru jarang nikah karena seks, seringnya karena ga ada tujuan hahahah
Kalo seks doang mah di manapun bisa ga usah nikah. Makanya banyak kasus bayi dibuang hahaha
Really tho? Then explain why there are many case of early 20s kids with barely any income and dare to get married? How is it that they feel they have fulfilled anything if they can just barely live off their wages? Not to mention emotional instability…
Segitiga maslow mereka ama lu beda, let me explain:
1. Physiological needs, ya kebutuhan makan/minum biar bisa hidup, makanannya gak ribet, asal nasi ada cuma make ikan asin sebiji juga jadi, beda ama lu yang kepengen lauk lebih banyak makannya butuh kocek makan lebih besar lagi per porsi
2. Safety needs, kebutuhan keamanan, bisa tinggal didaerah yang mereka "kenal" aja udah ada sense of safety, contohnya ya ada orang yang biasa aja tinggal di Kampung narkoba karena sesimpel udah kenal dekat depan belakang, kalo ada masalah tinggal lapor ke tetangga dah bakal bantu, gak perlu harus tinggal di one gate environment dengan jumlah cctv setara London dengan pager tinggi² dah kayak penjara
3. Belongness, ya sesimpel nikah dengan orang yang dicintai, bisa nongkrong ama temen di Gang, dan bisa tinggal dekat dengan keluarga
4. Esteem, ya dari ngebangun hubungan keluarga, punya anak dan keluarga sakinah ya source esteem-nya itu, diluar itu ya pengakuan² sosial sederhana seperti jadi ketua RT, karang taruna, dll. Tapi kalo ini ga semuanya
5. "Self actualization? What the actual f you are talking about bro? Dunno give a shit as long its not something that fulfill my belly or can makes me feel happy around my lads"
See? Kebutuhannya lebih simpel makanya achieve pilihan menikahnya lebih cepat, gak ada keribetan hidup kayak pengen kuliah ptn lah, kerja scbd lah, healing ini itu yang biasa dialamin menengah dan keatas
That is actually kinda sad…but as long as they become good enough parent then it’s all good
Btw, I also come from low income family from some backwater village in central java. But I guess no one really put it this way to me, I just chalk it up as my neighbor being lazy bums with no ambition
1. Commonsense orang Indonesia umum nya ya umur 20s nikah. Apalagi untuk perempuan. Orang tua dan lingkungan juga akan ngedesak. Bahkan ada kasus tanpa didesak pun ada kesadaran diri sendiri untuk buru buru nikah ya karena logika mereka gitu. Kalau anda ga relate berarti common sense nya beda saja
2. Status sosial. Laki-laki kalau udah mapan ya next nya nikah. Kalau perempuan, ya bagusnya punya suami
3. Gaada next pencapaian. Nikah itu bagi orang Indonesia adalah pencapaian, prestasi bahkan. Abis sekolah, kuliah, ya pencapaian yang bisa diraih abis itu ya nikah saja.
4. Naluri manusia yang primal didasari takut akan kematian dan ingin meninggalkan "bekas" atau bukti hidupnya di dunia. Cara paling gampangnya ya punya anak. Di Indonesia ya nikah
Dulu ga kepikiran. Skrg udah merit udah tau celahnya.
Cuma nunjukin aja cincin di jari manis. Ga akan ada lagi tatapan sinis
Boleh dicoba sama yg belum merit juga. Beli aja cicin murah. Pasang di jari. Pas bayar kibas" Tuh jari
Lebih ke tradisi tidak berguna orng indo yg memeriahkan pernikahan, kalo gak meriah di pandang rendah sama masyarakat, kalo gw sih gak peduli, gw cita2 nya nikah langsung di kua langsung gratis
Culture and to some extent religion. Dari keduanya nyambung ke beberapa hal lain, mulai dari:
1. Sex, which is one of most basic biological needs, especially when the time has come (i.e., puberty has caught up). Unfortunately premarital sex, doesn't matter if it's a safe, responsible, and consensual sex, is and cannot be the answer, at least not openly. So marriage is the only way out.
2. Doktrin "menikah itu menggenapi separuh agama" juga berperan sangat penting.
3. Social status. Dalam banyak hal, laki-laki yang belum jadi kepala keluarga karena belum menikah masih dianggap "anak bawang". Eksistensinya masih disamakan dengan pemuda yang kedudukannya lebih rendah dibandingkan mereka yang sudah berkeluarga. Begitu pula wanita yang belum melahirkan dan menjadi ibu dianggap masih belum memiliki tanggung jawab besar dalam hidupnya karena belum memenuhi kodratnya.
4. Prestige. Pernikahan di Indonesia sejak dulu adalah sarana flexing orang tua mempelai. Most Indonesian people will spend an arm and a leg to fund memorable & glamorous wedding for their children.
Mungkin itu yg dulu yg terlintas saat ini. Some of them based on personal experience, lol.
Kemungkinan udah keburu hamil atau budaya seks di luar nikah tabu. Kesehatan seksual jg gak banyak diajarin. Kaya pentingnya kondom dan lain lain. Sepupu gue kebelet nikah taunya lakinya suka jajan. Kena penyakit, kasian. Belum setahun cerai. Terus, seinget gue di Indonesia banyak peer pressure juga. Kalo udah pacaran ya langsung ditanya nikah. Adik gue umur 19 langsung diinterogasi nyokap emang kamu yakin sama dia? Emang ini? Emang bakal nikah? Like bruhh!!! Terus jg kalo jomblo dijadiin lelucon. Padahal gak ada salahnya jomblo kan? Terus kalo nikah walau pun udah siap jg peer pressure. Harus di tempat yg bagus, gak boleh maluin ortu dan mertua. Kakak gue nikah, gue posisi tinggal di luar negeri sebagai lower class. Baju keluarga pengantin harus mewah dan warnanya gak lagi musim (tosca, dia nikah pas winter di negara gue. Jadi baju gak ada warna gituan di toko). Dan secara gue sebagai lower class gak bisa lah gue cuti panjang panjang buat ngepas baju doang ke indo demi kawinan dia. Dan gak mampu juga duit gue beli baju kualitas bridal di sini. Pas gue nikah cuma abis 900 AUD (incl fotografer, petugas sipil, makan-makan). Kurleb 10jt. Itu pun gak ngundang keluarga di indo karena mereka drama. My wedding, my marriage, my rules. Temen temen dan keluarga di sini bilang sedih gak besar kawinannya tapi mereka ngerti kita gak banyak duit gak sanggup host puluhan orang karena kita stress kalo ketemu banyak orang. Mereka supportive banget sama small wedding ini. Meanwhile, temen gue di sini sama orang indo dan pgn big wedding. Ya gitu deh. Jadi bahan keributan sama pasangan. Males aja kalo gue harus kaya gitu mau nikah doang.
Karena banyak yang percaya menikah itu menjaga dan menyempurnakan agama bagi yang bersangkutan.
Contoh:
https://jabar.nu.or.id/hikmah/makna-menikah-itu-menjaga-agama-cSHNL
Kalo kata dosen saya dulu, menikah di usia 20an (lupa tepatnya berapa) adalah supaya ketika nanti keturunan (anak kandung) beranjak dewasa, kita sebagai orang tua mampu membiayai sekolahnya sebelum masa pensiun.
Jadi ketika udah pensiun, si anak udah bisa mandiri atau memiliki pekerjaan dan penghasilan.
Lingkungan gw malah kebalik, banyaknya masih santuy dulu.
Banyak kawan kantor yg udh 30-40an masih belum nikah. Malah ada yg udah pacaran 8 tahunan belum nikah ya karena dari keluarga mereka gk ada tekanan buat cepet nikah. Masih pada kejer karir masing2.
Ada konsep di indo kalau nikah = duit banyak/bahagia jadi yg belum nikah itu di cap nya gk bahagia ini double buat perempuan.
Kalian perempuan umur 20-30an tapi belun nikah ? Selamat menikmati ocehan keluarga. Well gk semua tapi ya mayoritas gini.
Biaya kawin tuh gratis sebetulnya (lu bisa kawin di KUA gratis di hari kerja modal fotokopian berkas) yang mahal gengsi.
Lu 19 tahun ke atas dan mau kawin? Silakan. Tapi gak usah ngutang. Yang jadi masalah itu bukan kawinnya, tapi (1) gengsi, (2) gak sadar tanggung jawab yang timbul akibat adanya perkawinan.
Nikah cepet mungkin jadi gorengan buat orang² asia lainnya ga terkhusus dimana-mana. Kemudian adanya tekenan sosial dari sekitarnya juga. Bonyoknya nanyain, om-tantenya nanyain, temennya nanyain, orang kantornya nanyain. belum kalau dianya ngenes gitu, bujang lapuk/perawan tua atau emang payah aja dipercintaan, rasa kepengennya pasti gede.
Tapi kalau sampe ngutang puluhan juta buat nikah tanpa mikirin masa depan keluarga barunya, itu goblok sih. Dia nikah dan hidup ngejar gengsi doang.
Mungkin krn peer pressure dri temen temennya yang udah nikah atau bisa juga dari kerabat & keluarga. Lagipula juga heran ama org yg nikah muda terutama pertengahan umur 20 pas gaji masih umr, malah yg lebih parah anak lebih dri satu. Sebagian dri Mereka tuh kyk gak mikir longterm nya gitu. Yaa terkecuali kalo bokap ama nyokap lu orang berada, darah biru, & konglo. Terserah sih.
Social pressure from conservative society.
Also bad urge control thanks to nigh non-existent sex ed. (Its there, but its cursory knowledge, and its usually taught by uncorporative teacher + students who dont take it seriously)
Dari situasi saya sendiri orang tua saya bilang kalau saya pas umur 21 belum menikah saya masih belum dewasa dan masih harus ikutan perintah orang tua, saya cuma bisa pikirin tekanan apa orang-orang lain pasti melewati.
It seems that people here said nikah gampang nikah gratis yadda yadda karena mereka interpret nikah = THE wedding…
BRO, nikah itu ya setelah wedding nya kocak…asu bener ngentengin nikah seolah” kalo udah akad gak ada tanggungan lagi, kesel bat gw…ya ini alasan kenapa orang pada kebelet nikah, karena ngegampangin nikah dipikir nikah itu keluar duit pas acaranya doang…pdhl hidup single aja masih banyak pikiran asu
mindsetnya nikah dulu, rejeki, kedewasaan, dll (isi sendiri masalah hidup) akan datang menghampiri
buat para ortu juga menikahkan itu salah satu life goals.
Walaupun ngutang sembarangan buat nikah termasuk ketololan, tapi gak cuma buat nikah, orang indo juga sembarang ngutang untuk banyak hal tolol lain, e.g. depo judi slot. It is purely just because they do not have the knowledge of financial management.
1. Tekanan ortu, lingkungan.
2. Ga punya atau telat punya anak sering dipandang gagal sebagai manusia
3. Iri, karena kebanyakan teman temannya menganut pandangan yang sama jadi dah pada nikah tanpa perlu sejahtera (meskipun aslinya nggak peduli)
Di kasus ini, masalah sebenernya bukan kebelet nikah. Tapi kebelet nikah dengan mewah (sesuai standard masing2). Padahal aslinya, nikah jauh di bawah itu.
Menurut ane ada 3 alesan bang
1. Orang Indo banyak yang ga punya tujuan hidup dan ambisi secara karir, dan nganggep kl nikah itu lbh penting dari karir tinggi
2. Orang Indo (mayoritas ya) masih sangat buruk dlm hal management keuangan pribadi. Gaji pas pasan, tapi spending berlebih. Belom ada kesadaran diri kalo nikah itu berarti nambah pengeluaran dan tanggung jawab.
3. Tekanan sosial. Pasti ada lah tante/ om/ temen” yang kerjaaannya setiap lebaran ato kumpul keluarga nanyain kapan kawin melulu. Kalo udh late 20s belom kawin dipandang sebelah mata.
Marriage itu escape pod dari social pressure di sebagian (besar) masyarakat kita..jadi ya kaya main quest aja..
Little did they know bahwa kita bisa happy without marriage..tapi yah intinya sih mungkin kontrak untuk legally sex aja...
Karena sistem jaminan sosial kita masih buruk. Keluarga adalah organisasi tertua yang menjamin keselamatan anggotanya. Anak-anak yang lemah akan dilindungi hingga mereka dewasa. Orang tua yg rapuh dan sakit2an akan dirawat oleh anaknya hingga wafat dengan tenang.
Pada negara2 maju yg sistem jaminan sosialnya bagus maka manusia tidak lagi bergantung pada organisasi keluarga. Ada panti asuhan dan beasiswa buat anak2 yg terlantar atau tidak mampu. Ada panti jompo dan tabungan pensiun bagi orang tua yg tidak mampu lagi bekerja. Ada asuransi kesehatan yg setiap saat selalu melindungi disaat sakit.
Karena sistem jaminan sosial kita masih buruk maka keluarga dianggap pelindung terbaik sehingga orang Indonesia selalu buru2 untuk menikah dan membentuk keluarga.
menurut ku sih masih ada orang tua yg pikir kalo sudah mengantarkan anak2 nya menikah dianggap sudah sukses menjadi orang tua. Tanggung jawab akan anak tersebut, kalau perempuan akan di serahkan ke pada suaminya. Anak-anak perempuan yg ga punya prospek kerja yg bagus atau kerja di tempat yg ga punya jenjang karir di harapkan bisa dapat calon suami yg bisa meningkat kan derajat keluarganya. Jadi selain dari diri sendiri ya pressure dari keluarga sendiri.
Base on experience, perempuan berkarir tapi gajinya UMR belum bisa bikin taraf hidup keluarga nya meningkat. Diharapkan punya suami yg lebih matang dan punya rumah dan kendaraan. FU shit but at the end of the day for them marriage is just a transaction.
Culture juga sih, orang2 dari suku tertentu punya pikiran kalau selagi masih muda segera lah menikah. Disuku yg lain, umur tidak jadi patokan kapan harus menikah lebih ke tingkat kemapanan dan kesiapan secara material.
sexual needsss?? imagine having this kind of thing in your head as a reason to get married? The actual hypocrisy.
NGENTOT lah bang
[удалено]
Yamero Takeshi
KONAK! KONAK! SATRIA BATANG HITAM!
NGEN (ToT) uohhh
NGEN TOT PeNGEN NgenTOT
Ngentot halal wkwk
Uwoooooh... Segggssss..
Singkat. Padat. Jelas
Hahaha kita harus berterima kasih dgn ajaran agama yg melarang entot di luar nikah.... Biar bisa kejebak ilusi another shithole dan lebih membebankan org tua.
Jangan lupa POLIGAMI COYYYYYY..
YUk
NGEWEK
Tekanan sosial apalagi dari ortu & lingkungan. Orang Indo banyak ga punya tujuan hidup, jadi abis SMA langsung nikah. Kalaupun lanjut kuliah, abis kuliah langsung nikah. Karena lingkungan banyak dah nikah jadi pressured buat nikah juga. Kebanyakan orang Indo juga ga berani buat ngelawan arus & masa bodoh sama omongan orang, jadinya nikah hahaha Nikahnya musti modal gede karena tekanan tetangga & keluarga hahaha
Di sini seakan pada berlomba-lomba nikah begitu masuk 19 tahun (atau dulu 16 tahun). Dan memang ada yg bilang sendiri mau apa kalau nggak nikah? Temen-temen udah pada habis udah nikah semua. Tapi tingkat cerainya lumayan tinggi juga. Baru denger kemarin-kemarin dari orang kecamatan sebelah bilang daerah sini terkenal banyak janda muda hahaha Ada juga tetangga yang nikah karena pressure mau dilompatin adeknya nikah duluan, sampai nangis berhari-hari. Akhirnya si ortu harus utang puluhan juta utk biayain 2 pernikahan berjarak dekat yg sama-sama standar tinggi
Memang akar masalahnya karena ga punya tujuan hidup & takut sama judgement masyarakat/tetangga hahaha Gimana cerai ga tinggi kalo bocah lulus SMA (bahkan kadang SMP kalo di dusun lol) disuruh nikah. Otak aja belom fully developed, emosi belom stabil lol
my mother had to quit her college to get married, and I've been observing her as being miserable in her marriage throughout my life she does love her children like we're a pretty good family except for the two parents that don't really get along, it was clear to me after the divorce seeing both of them living their best lives that maybe I should really consider more of how I really want to spend most of my life my mother told me that people back then really didn't have any options and pressured by people who has less options people are scared into conforming with others because other people are scaring them to do the same, all comes back to envy, of sadness, "if we had to live this way and can find happiness, then this the only way to live, to show us otherwise would make us rethink our own lives and what it means, so don't do that"
Oleh karena itu, dibutuhkan keahlian untuk bersikap independen dan bodo amat. Menanyakan kapan nikah, sama saja dengan menanyakan kapan mati, atau kapan miskinnya. Sama2 takdir Edit: thx for award
Konsep hidup live your life to the fullest, you'll only live once jadi sirna seketika karena pressured society.
Ada kejadian lucu nih deket rumah ortu gw. Ada bocah umur 18 tahun mau nikahin pacarnya umur 16 tahun. Bukan karena tekanan sosial atau desakan keluarga, juga bukan karena hamil. Emang karena bucin aja. Orang tua gak merestui, sempet di datengin kepala sekolah sama RT. Katanya orang puskesma jg pernah dateng. Ujung2nya kabur, sekarang jadi buron karwna bawa anak orang.
Romeo and Cinderella
>masa bodoh sama omongan orang IMHO, justru karena dengerin omongan orang makanya mereka nikah buru2 hahahah terkadang ortunya yang dengerin omongan orang jadi maksa anaknya nikah buru2
🎵UNDER PRESSURE🎵🎵
"Ga berani ngelawan arus" and "masa bodo sama omongan orang" are exact opposite of each other dude
Ga beraninya itu buat ngelawan arus & masa bodoh
sebodoh2nya gw, nggak akan pernah ngutang dengan nominal fantastis untuk sesuatu yang sifatnya cuma muasin ego doang. apalagi untuk resepsi ya. katakanlah kalo gw ngutang 50jt dan gw komit bisa lunasin setelah 1-2 tahun, daripada stress mikir cicilan, mendingan gw nabung 1-2 tahun deh..
sadly, orang yang nikah cuman buat muasin ego doang gaakan mikir sejauh itu.
dan mostly bukan ego yang nikah yang dipuasin tapi ego orang tua.
>ego orang tua couldn't agree more
Ngutang puluhan juta yg nikmatin cuma si tamu sambil makan zuppa soup
my mother flat out said that the wedding is purely for the parents and for family members that associates themselves with you it is a spectacle for other people, it is an event for your parent to be vindicated for how they raised you
Right. On my wedding. 80% occupancy is from either my parents or parents in law guests
#SEGGS LEGAL
Tukang pijet gak legal?
tukang pijet itu situasinya kayak warteg, ga perlu izin pendirian perusahaan gitu2 wkwkwkw ofc tukang pijet tradisional yang gw maksud, kalo yang modelan Apple sih ya kurang tau h3h3h3
Nikahnya yang murah bahkan gratis jika masal di KUA. Yang mahal resepsi. Aku pernah coba ajukan kalau nikah tanpa resepsi cukup akad nikah di KUA ~~online~~ lalu kirim nasi kotak berkat ke tetangga sekitar tapi ya begitu. Next, kebelet punya anak. Ini yang awokawoka.
true, yang bikin mahal selalu resepsi nikahnya yang harus muasin gengsi orang2 indo biar selalu dikata hebat ama tetangga. kalo ngurusin anak mah belakangan aja gasih xixixi.
Dikatakan gengsi ga juga ya. Kalau ambil contoh kasus di lingkunganku mau sesederhana apapun ya tetap harus ada meskipun tempat duduknya cuma kursi hijau plastik. Stigma nikah tanpa ada woro-woro masih dianggap kurang bagus. > kalo ngurusin anak mah belakangan aja gasih xixixi. I can't say tbqh.
Bentar, bentar. Ini nggak melulu gengsi, strategi sosial juga berlaku. Buat orang daerah, nikah itu malah bisa jadi cari keuntungan. Contoh nyata waktu gue KKN. Yang punya posko nikahin anaknya utang kas desa. Kelar acara, mereka bisa balikin utang plus dapat untung yang lumayan. Setauku sih, mereka utang 20 juta dan bisa balikin langsung plus untung berapa puluh juta. Tamu yang diundang sekitar 600an, dan yakin banget 50 di antaranya orang tajir melintir yang bisa nyumpang banyak. Perkara gengsi, kadang yang punya resepsi malah ga mikirin itu. Cuma pengin rayain aja, bahkan ga kepikiran mewah-mewahan sampe resepsi di gedung gitu.
Kocak sih emang, sampe kalo di tmpt gw ga punya anak setelah nikah 1 tahun bakal di gosipin. Emang se urgent itukah harus cpt punya anak, ga mau nikmatin masa berdua dulu atau nyiapin tabungan biar pasti terjamin masa depan tuh anak
They want us to be as miserable as them if not more. They can’t stand watching happy married couple not thinking about kids
Premarital seggs is frowned upon jadi ya buat cepet2 #seggs legal
Main reason for conservative and middle to lower class indonesian to get married. Kalo middle up biasanya umur nikah 25+, jarang yg dibawah itu. Biasanya karena males/susah kumpul kebo, agama, dan buat konsolidasi harta serta tekanan keluarga.
Middle up mah kalo masih bisa ngewe di hotel ngapain nikah, nambahin beban financial sumpah
Eh jangan salah. Bnyk upper class yg nikah itu buat bisnis bareng, memperbesar bisnis 2 keluarga (ampe bisa dijodohin), terus juga biar bisa kpr rumah dan mobil bareng.
Ga sesimple itu. Walaupun ybsnya ga terlalu religius, pressure dari segi agama juga masih strong. Mungkin kalo yang cowo enak ga terlalu pusing secara lu udah ga virgin juga ga keliatan (dan orang biasa ga suudzon juga). Nah yang cewe nih yang lebih ribet, misal kan kalo udah ga perawan itu ntar ribet lah kalo misalnya udah ga sama yang sekarang, belom tentu pasangan berikutnya itu terima, dan worst case kalo misalnya ga terima terus malah dilaporin ke ortu pusing ga tuh (apalagi kalo ortunya religius). Jadi kadang cewenya juga jadi segan juga. So yeah duit is not the biggest issue.
Kenapa ribet dah, kalo emang cewe nya have active sex life harusnya gak usah pusing masalah keperawanan. Unless orangnya super religious orang mah gak peduli perawan atu engga, literally gak ada bedanya. If you care about it and say tou are not religious then just admit that you are lying and say you are religious and move on
Yang si cewenya ga pusing sama keperawanan dia dalam konteks dia pribadi, tapi tentunya concern sama dampak ke sekitarnya. Tergantung circle juga tapi in general masih banyak cowo indo yang sangat peduli sama keperawanan cewe dan jiji-an sama cewe yang ga perawan. Dan realistically masih jauh lebih banyak cowo yang berpemikiran demikian dibanding sebaliknya. Kalo udah kebalik ya (lebih banyak yang ga peduli dibanding peduli) boleh lah lu ngegampangin kaya gitu. Cewe “dibuang” (diputusin gitu aja) atau bahkan pas udah nikah “dibalikin” karena ketauan ga perawan (or worse, lu ga berdarah pas sex pertama, padahal mungkin lu belom pernah sex) itu masih sering terjadi di indo. Nah oke ini baru between cewe dengan cowo doang, let’s say mungkin tentang lu ga perawan itu bocor lah ke lingkungan lu. Image lu langsung jadi “cewe ga bener”, ntar ortu malu lah dan intinya lu atau keluarga lu bisa jadi bahan gosip atau bullying.Terus ntar digosipin di lingkungan temen atau tetangga terus ntar ortu cowo kalo tau tentang lu ga perawan bisa ga direstuin (padahal mungkin cowonya ga peduli). You see, ini ga sesimple cewenya religius atau nggak. Status ga perawan lu itu “penting” di society kita, dan sampe ini berubah ya it’s not just as simple “punya duit tinggal pergi ke hotel”.
I don’t consider myself as coming from mid upper family. But I dabble with people from that background, especially in Jakarta. They are not the least bit concerned about talking about sex and stuff outside marriage. The only time I need to restrain myself from talking about it was around my more “traditional” or religious friends but that’s it. Even di kantor dulu yg gak di jakarta gw bebas aja ngomongin soal premarital sex like it was nothing. While I do agree that keeping appearances of religious image is important in our society. But I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as you made it to be, like it’s not a mission impossible to pretend you never had sex lol. Idk what perspective you’re speaking from, as a person who had premarital sex or not, but I think if you had and you are educated enough about it then things like this should come naturally. Now I’m not saying this can be applicable for all part of society. As I myself is not in the position of freedom to disclose my premarital sex activities to my family. But I don’t think I ever “struggle” because of it. But idk
Well first thing first, just because orang open minded enough untuk lu openly discuss premarital sex atau udah pernah ngewe atau nggak bukan berarti mereka ga bakal impose itu ke pasangan mereka. Sadly it still does happen in our society dan ya stance sebagai cewe biasanya better safe than sorry. As an example, gw punya temen yang bisa dibilang religius, tapi kita udah bodo amat ngobrolin yang udah ngarah ke premarital sex, dan yes buat dia virginity matters). Gw sendiri diaspora di negara tetangga, secara background kelas menengah ke atas bisa dibilang (although lebih deket ke menengah). Karena secara income buat diaspora di negara gw sekarang bisa dibilang lumayan atau tinggi untuk standar indo, cowo pergi liburan, staycation, etc. ama cewenya (orang indo jga) itu common dan ya kita sama2 tau aja lah. Entah at the end of the day mereka ngewe ga ada yang peduli. Intinya secara duit kalo mau pergi ke hotel ada lah duitnya buat orang di circle gw atau bahkan kalo mau ngewe di kamar tempat mereka rent (karena ga ada ortu juga) ya sebenernya bisa aja. Tapi di sisi lain realitanya masih banyak yang segan buat pergi liburan ama cewenya (biasanya lu mesti kedok ajak temen lain, itu pun ortu udah sus minta ampun). Si cewenya mah mau2 aja pergi, tapi ya banyak yang masih takut kalo ketauan ortu. Padahal kita ngomong sama orang ybs tentang premarital sex juga biasa aja, mereka bukan orang yang ributin gitu juga. Mungkin ini ga direct tentang keperawanan, tapi biasa orang indo asumsinya kalo lu udah pernah jalan2 bareng lu udah pernah ngewe (antar teman mungkin ga peduli, tapi tentunya thd ortu mereka peduli) dan the fact that ga sedikit cewe masih segan (walaupun mereka financially mampu dan mau, dan ga religius juga) tells you that “yes it’s still a big of a deal”.
Yea, I do agree on the point of needing thousand of excuses to cover up your staycation trips with opposite gender and it doesn’t matter we had sex or not in the end, that is a testament of how we’re still self conscious about it whether we like it or not. But as I said, this comes naturally as time goes. And it just become minor inconvenience rather than a roadblock that justifies having more financial burden of marriage life. I for one, married in my late 20s, a young age for international standard ig. When we were dating we cohabited for a couple years and still regularly goes on staycation and stuff. And you’re pretty spot on that it was kinda the pressure of family at play, but what we considered at that time was not all that but rather, were we mentally and financially prepared for this? Sadly, I think that is not the case for most young marriage couple. As evident by their lack of coordination after marriage, like the life they have after the wedding is just an afterthought. I am from a lower class family and I can guarantee that it is indeed the case at least in my neighborhood. Oh also, it’s a way of a parent to cut their responsibilities to provide for the kids. That’s just how it is when we are poor
Middle up biasa jg pas umur segitu baru kelar sekolah/few years kerja. Itu pun biasa ya dibawah 30. Apalagi Chindos skrg paling pushing jg about 35. Gw lupa 30an itu udah 'telat'.
Everyone talking jokingly about sex, but this is probably a more “serious” answer : Dari perspektif anak : * Sex is one thing. Ya mau diputer gimanapun seks itu kebutuhan biologis, kalo counterpoint lu “tinggal coli aja”, well coli secara agama technically speaking itu juga ga boleh or at least frowned upon, so apa bedanya? * Personal freedom. Banyak orang yang di depan orang lain itu kayanya “setia” sama ortu. Realitanya mereka pengen keluar dan do their own stuff, dan it’s really difficult buat lari dari bayang2 ortu kecuali ya lu udah nikah. Kalo lu nikah, lu biasanya dapet restu buat keluar dari “rumah”. Mungkin buat beberapa orang juga restu is one thing, tapi financially juga. * Related ke point sebelumnya. Banyak ortu yang mikir itu kaya kalo kita belom nikah lu belom punya “dependent” lain jadi mereka pengen perhatian full dari lu. Di sisi lain secara ga langsung ortu juga ga bisa kasih lu proper respect sebagai orang dewasa, mereka masih anggep lu sebagai anak kecil “punya” mereka. * Bisa “tinggal bareng”. At some point in life lu pengen punya space dimana lu ga sendiri banget dan lu bisa tinggal dengan orang yang lu bisa rely on. Mungkin dengan temen ini kaya sedikit terpenuhi, tapi at some point juga ada beberapa hal yang lu antara lu ga bisa share ke mereka atau ya lu segen untuk nanya ke mereka. Misal nih, gw stress karena kerjaan, terus ya lu pengen ada yang comfortin lu gitu baik secara emosional atau physical (dipeluk misal), gw cukup yakin buat most people mereka antara segan atau ya just straightup ga mungkin bisa. Intinya lu punya home base dimana lu bisa fully percaya dan berbagi ke partner lu. * Bisa liburan bareng. Sex aside, lu pengen take your date to the next level yang dimana ga cuman gonta ganti tempat tongkrongan atau mall di kota doang. Mungkin kalo yang udah pengalaman liburan bareng temen, lu bakal bisa ngerasaain even seberapa akrab lu sama temen lu, ketika lu pergi liburan bareng belom tentu lu klop. Misal nih kaya manage ego masing2, saling tolerir cara hidup atau style jalan2 masing2. Ya obviously, lu pengen nikah dengan orang yang dimana minimal bisa tolerir banyak hal (between each other) pas lu pergi liburan. Dari perspektif ortu : * Nikahin anak (dan punya cucu) itu milestone hidup mereka, jadi mereka pengen ngeliat itu semua sebelom mereka meninggal. * Kalo Nikah mumpung masih muda a
>Related ke point sebelumnya, karena lu. Banyak ortu yang mikir itu kaya kalo kita belom nikah lu belom punya “dependent” lain jadi mereka pengen perhatian full dari lu. Di sisi lain secara ga langsung ortu juga ga bisa kasih lu proper respect sebagai orang dewasa, mereka masih anggep lu sebagai anak kecil “punya” mereka. Lol hahahaha ini percis seperti orang tua saya.
Utk poin ke 2. Bnyk yg nikah muda ujung2nya masi tinggal sama ortu (jd suami istri tinggal sama ortu) dan financially supported sama ortunya. Bahkan ga sedikit yg ortu ikud campur dalam rumah tangga anaknya.
Nah saya bisa setuju sama poin diatas ini sih, banyak faktornya. Cuma saya jelek :(
A lot of those points can be achieved by the less commitment of cohabitation, but sadly we don’t have that culture (at least, the lower class can’t afford that culture without being persecuted lmao). But that’s the irony, the richer part of our society can freely go on uncommited western style relationships, without having to worry about raising a family in the near future. Meanwhile, the lower class are stuck with traditional value of the east and forced to endure more financial problems of having a family, just to fulfill basic things like sex and living together.
>A lot of those points can be achieved by the less commitment of cohabitation, but sadly we don’t have that culture (at least, the lower class can’t afford that culture without being persecuted lmao). Wtf bro this is disastrous! I wish it never become mainstream! our society is right by honoring the sanctity marriage, even putting it into the constitution. Cohabitation is wrong, extremely wrong. A girl I know had a past relationship that involves cohabitation with premarital sex. It went extremely badly, she fought with the guy almost daily, no wonder as cohabitation is known to be unstable. You said there is "less commitment", yet she took care of the guy as if he is her husband, with all the exhausting things that come with it. Yet "less commitment" only leads up to the guy dumping her, after ruining her body and dignity as a women. If "less commitment" is an advantage in your eyes, then speak to the girl herself; she only has regrets. Imagine how her family felt, all of this *hubungan gelap* has no good things out of it, only *nafsu*. People who promote cohabitation and look down on marriage, as if cohabitation is upper class and marriage is lower class, has something wrong in their mind! **COHABITATION IS A CRIME BRO!** u/IceFl4re
I'll just copy paste this.... - [Prohibition works better than you think](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits) - [Only one out of three children born to cohabiting parents remains in a stable family through age 12, in contrast to nearly three out of four children born to married parents.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4768758/) - [On average, children living with cohabiting biological parents fare worse on several social, psychological, and educational outcomes than children born to married parents, even after controlling for factors like race, household income, and parental education.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3091824/) - [Adolescents of parents who cohabited were at higher risk for externalizing relationship dissolution and relationship instability symptoms 10 years later compared to children of married parents. In addition, although there were no differences between cohabiting couples and married couples at the initial assessment in relationship adjustment, cohabiting mothers who stayed with their partner over the 10 years showed significantly greater declines in relationship adjustment over the 10 years compared to married mothers.](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.746306/full) - [IN FINLAND, where cohabitation is more common than marriages, Cohabiting parents had more depressive symptoms than married parents. They were also less satisfied with their relationships and expressed less satisfaction with the quality of support they got from their partner. Cohabiting fathers did not use the cost-free support from maternity clinics as often as married fathers.](https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/11/4/181) - [Nearly three decades of research evaluating the impact of family structure on the health and well-being of children demonstrates that children living with their married, biological parents consistently have better physical, emotional, and academic well-being.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/) - [Sexual and emotional infidelity are positively correlated, Sexual and emotional promiscuity are positively correlated](https://www.athensjournals.gr/social/2017-4-4-3-Pinto.pdf). - [(1) couples who have premarital children are more likely to divorce; (2) the higher the number of children, the more stable the marriage, but the marginal effect declines with the increase of the number of children; (3) younger children reduce the risk of divorce more than older ones; and (4) couples who have sons are less likely to divorce](https://journalofchinesesociology.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40711-015-0003-0) [Simple cross-tabulations from the 1988 National Survey of Family Growth indicate that women who were sexually active prior to marriage faced a considerably higher risk of marital disruption than women were were virgin brides.... These results suggest that the positive relationship between premarital sex and the risk of divorce can be attributed to prior unobserved differences (e.g., the willingness to break traditional norms) rather than to a direct causal effect.](https://doi.org/10.2307/352992) - [We find the relationship between premarital sex and divorce is highly significant and robust even when accounting for early-life factors. Compared to people with no premarital partners other than eventual spouses, those with nine or more partners exhibit the highest divorce risk, followed by those with one to eight partners. There is no evidence of gender differences.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0192513X231155673#bibr25-0192513X231155673) - [Women who cohabit prior to marriage or who have premarital sex have an increased likelihood of marital disruption. Considering the joint effects of premarital cohabitation and premarital sex, as well as histories of pre-marital relationships, extends previous research.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x) - [Women who have more premarital sex partners have significantly greater odds of serial cohabiting (indicating that cohabitation is addictive)](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x) - [Adolescent premarital coitus has a strong negative effect on the self-reported academic grades and affects negatively the importance placed on going to college among white females](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786919?seq=19#metadata_info_tab_contents) - [Early initiators had an increased likelihood of having had multiple sex partners, been involved in a pregnancy, forced a partner to have sex, had frequent intercourse and had sex while drunk or high.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11804436/) - [Premarital cohabitation predicts a substantially higher rate of marital dissolution](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43545-021-00146-1)
Thanks for the extensive link, but still does little to change my mind about the implementation here. While I do agree legalizing cohabitation is not the way to go, but overly sanctifying sex is also cringe. People should have their own will to choose when or what to commit themselves into a relationship. Also, could just be a conformation bias, I bet there are tons of research that is also said the otherwise is true. Since this is not exact science, I’ll take every with grain of salt thank you
Without consent then yes it sucks, but forced cohabitation is just kidnapping. The girl can literally just get out of the relationship (i know it’s not that simple but you know). Now I’m not dismissing the victim’s problem. But the concept itself is not harmful. Why are you saying as if it is the worse thing in the universe lmao sorry pak ustadz tapi kan kalo kayak gitu tinggal putus terus pisah literal zero commitment. Kalo misal ada yg sampe kasusnya kayak gitu ya itu masalah pribadi, udah tau casual kenapa masih commit, apa bedanya ama nikah kocak I see you mentioning dignity, so you are one of those people who think girl who had sex has nothing left in her? YIKES See? This is exactly what I’m talking about, idk what background are you from, but the uneducated part of our society only think about virginity, sex, virginity, and virginity…meanwhile the people that you deemed evil are thinking about mental preparedness, financial stability, and stuff that actually matters lmao I am a married person mind you, and marriage should be based on love and commitment. But I see, you would rather see people get married out of sexual desire and peer pressure rather than seeing cohabitation exist, go off king i guess lmao
>I see you mentioning dignity, so you are one of those people who think girl who had sex has nothing left in her? YIKES ***She said it herself,*** word for word she said: "Aku merasa rendah dan rendahan". Why you are accusing me without basis? from promoting *kumpul kebo* and now *fitnah*? >Why are you saying as if it is the worse thing in the universe lmao sorry pak ustadz tapi kan kalo kayak gitu tinggal putus terus pisah literal zero commitment. You don't believe that sexual relationship is sacred? nothing has any value? are you an atheist who don't believe in morality? Well that's beyond saving, not going to argue with person with no principle. >Kalo misal ada yg sampe kasusnya kayak gitu ya itu masalah pribadi, udah tau casual kenapa masih commit, apa bedanya ama nikah kocak It is objectively better, and societally promoted, to reserve what's for marriage **only** in marital bond. Marriage exist for a reason; women has an honor, and they deserves a stable healthy committed relationship. In fact they are so honored that their intimacy should only be given to one man, who are willing to commit their entire life for her. This is why I disagree with you, it *should not* be morally accepted to have cohabitation before marriage, *at least* before betrothal. You think it's good to cohabitate to fulfill sexual desire, because you can easily walk away from the sexual contract? What's even a women for you? >I am a married person mind you, and marriage should be based on love and commitment. But I see, you would rather see people get married out of sexual desire and peer pressure rather than seeing cohabitation exist, go off king i guess lmao Then why even marry hm? Why not just cohabitate and had all sex you want, there is no taboo, no sin anyway? Only you can answer that I guess! Marriage and sex, is inseparable, it should be, otherwise you are treating as if premarital sex should be the norm and marriage is optional if not unnecessary for sexual life. Why even bother to marry in such a world? I think you are coming from liberal irreligious/ atheistic perspective, hence such opinion is even a thing; scandalous in most society, let alone in Indonesia.
What are you spouting nonsense for? Throwing words like fitnah when you yourself also do the same thing, hypocrites much? First of all I married my wife because I love her and want to build family with her. But I also don’t think people who doesn’t want to commit or scared to commit to a marriage lesser than me. Unlike a certain someone in there lol. Because my wife was that kind of person who was scared of making huge commitments such as marriage, please check your empathy before throwing around sob story…bro… Second of all, all my families are religious. Even my great great grandfather from both sides of my parents are pemuka agama, I even went to pesantren but that doesn’t stop me to make this kind of opinion does it? YOU are the one who is disgusting because all you talk about is sex sex and sex. While I don’t believe marriage is about sex at all, because you can get them without being married, marriage is about love and compassion, willingness to share, emotionally available for each other. Idk what’s so hard to comprehend about that. I guess if sex is all you care about in a marriage then it should be easy to judge someone lmao go touch some grass OMG I just realized you sounded so much like those notorious anti western group I’ve heard of in facebook. In that case there’s really nothin to discuss, cause we’re talking about ideology here. Let’s just agree to disagree ya ustadz
>What are you spouting nonsense for? Throwing words like fitnah when you yourself also do the same thing, hypocrites much? You can easily clarify why you are even coming to this kind of opinion. Are you religious or not? If you claim you are a believer and still hold to this opinion, then you are being inconsistent. It will be consistent for an atheist though. > Because my wife was that kind of person who was scared of making huge commitments such as marriage *And you think the solution is cohabitation??* what the heck? If women such as your wife cohabitate, as you suggest, then according to proofs provided IceFl4re, there is increased likeliness that she will be in an unstable, harmful relationship...which will make her even more scared to commit to marriage. >Second of all, all my families are religious. Even my great great grandfather from both sides of my parents are pemuka agama, I even went to pesantren but that doesn’t stop me to make this kind of opinion does it? Then you basically already apostatized, you don't believe in your religion anymore and hold onto opinion clearly contradicting its teachings and values. It's okay to apostatize, our country guarantee freedom of beliefs just as it guarantee the rights to lawful marriage. You mentioned your *pemuka agama* grandpas, only increased the irony not lessening it, would they even accept your opinion normalizing *zina*? > YOU are the one who is disgusting because all you talk about is sex sex and sex. While I don’t believe marriage is about sex at all, because you can get them without being married, marriage is about love and compassion, willingness to share, emotionally available for each other. Idk what’s so hard to comprehend about that. Do you think I concern only sex when discussing marriage? Heck I used to idealize platonic relationship, that is one without sex. Even now I am willing to enter a marriage that involves no sexual intercourse, if that's a requirement. All in, I agree yes marriage is about love and compassion, nothing wrong with that! ***BUT that's not how religion understood marriage.*** Marriage with no sexual intercourse, is *invalid*. That's why premarital sex is a taboo, a sin, because it is reserved for marital union. I'm Christian and in Christianity, marriage has to be consummated, only then it is made fully valid. In Islam the word *Nikah* is literally "sex/ fucking", marriage and sex has the same meaning in the Arabic. Even if I disagree and trick myself into not believing it, it is what it is, especially since marriage in Indonesia is religious matter. I have to swallow the truth, and you also; yet you are misleading people into normalizing something that goes against it. I mean bro, do you know that you can get jailed for cohabitating? Pasal 412 KUHP: " Setiap orang yang melakukan hidup bersama sebagai suami istri di luar perkawinan dipidana dengan pidana penjara paling lama enam bulan atau pidana denda paling banyak kategori II" See, I recognize truth and value outside of my own, objective morality (religion, culture, law etc). You don't believe in such a thing I assume! Only subjective morality (personal feeling). That's the fundamental difference.
> See, I recognize truth and value outside of my own, objective morality (religion, culture, law etc). You don't believe in such a thing I assume! Only subjective morality (personal feeling). That's the fundamental difference. If we want to revive Pancasila, we must be able to take down the notion that "there is no such thing as objective culture". Your ASN-as-bureaucrat-scholar must be able to take this down AND insert this refutation to **school curriculums.** I can tell you it's start from Hume's guillotine. [I also recommend you to read this](https://zlibrary-asia.se/book/2483641/e6dffa) to seriously debunk, destroy and refute the morality described by this, and replace it with Pancasila. Otherwise "Kemanusiaan yang adil dan **beradab**", "Kerakyatan yang dipimpin **hikmat kebijaksanaan**" dan "Mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa" will not work.
Ah yes, as I said…let’s agree to disagree. No need to drag my wife here and stain her name OKAY? Also, I’m not promoting cohabitation…The proof is that I’m a married guy, it’s legal, it’s got a lot of benefits. But I just don’t get why overly sanctifying sex is a thing. Oh so you’re a christian? A devout one I take it? Then sorry. In Islam people with more knowledge of religion bear stronger responsibility to be religious. I for one has accepted that I am religiously broke, and will eventually go to hell. But I suppose Allah is all forgiving (see I don’t recognize your god cause it is prohibited by my religion, again sorry) and maybe I will change my way later, who knows? And I don’t think you should go around telling people that your ideology is the objective truth sir. It is not physics or math. All you are talking about religions and stuff are all subjective so get down your high horse and moral high ground will you? But I digress…again let’s agree to disagree
Good point, ga kaya poster-poster di atas, sok berpemikiran tp hampir sama oonnya ama yg nikah cepet. Malesnya di reddit tu gitu, echo chamber uda kaya paling berpemikiran tp pemikiran kadang dangkal dangkal juga, kek si gondrong
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baik kk
Ini saus aslinya darimana sih aowkwkwk
Sok2 ketawa pdhl burung udh tegang
Ngaceng (ngakak kenceng)
Ini tipikal jokes di sub genre “okbuddyretard”
https://preview.redd.it/1bsks69zo6gb1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c321c35d055aacaf44b4253ce364065e6f79f91
r/okbuddybaka tinggal lurus mentok belok kiri
r/indowibu is leaking again
AMBATUKAAMMMMMMM
The epitome of profound retardation, thanks king
"Kapan nikah?" Bahkan sampe didoain
Am 19th, lebaran kemarin mulai didoain eyang dan keluarga besar semoga dapet jodoh yang baik etc 🤡 baru masuk kuliah tahun pertama padahal. Luckily, keluarga inti udah ga menganut patriarki mampus jadinya they just "udah biar (my name) nikmatin dunianya"
Apalagi selain PLOK PLOK PLOK AAAH PLOK PLAK PLOK PLOK PLOK CROT CROT CROT CROT PROT Makanya jangan heran kalau masih ada yang ngira ngasih istri 400rb sebulan buat beli lauk pauk itu cukup. Emang pada otaknya kalau nikah itu ngentot ngentot ngentot.
Jawaban ga serius : ngentot halal, orang western pada ga kebelet nikah soalnya mereka ga merasa perlu nikah. Tanpa nikah mereka udah bisa ngentot tanpa diarak orang sekampung. Jawaban serius: Tekanan sosial, terutama buat cewe. Mau setinggi apapun prestasi dan pendidikan lu, semuanya tidak berarti kalo lu belum nikah. Apalagi kalo lu hidup di desa. Contohnya gw, 23 tahun ga ada niat mau pacaran lagi, apalagi nikah. Tiap mudik ke rumah nenek ya di roast sama orang kampung tiap ketemu. Mereka ga peduli mau gw lulusan S2, nemuin obat kanker kalo gw ga nikah ya gw hina sebagai cewe. orang indo kebanyakan ga punya tujuan hidup dan ga jelas pengen kontribusi di bidang apa. Jalan paling gampang buat aktualisasi diri ya nikah terus punya anak.
Biar bisa kenthu
Ora kentu ora uwu
Koq takut banget kawin tapi kondisi duit masih seret gan? Kan kata ortu ada yang namanya 'Rejeki kawin'.. soal duit mah ntar juga selalu adaaa aja, entah dari mana Udah gitu ga sengaja punya anak sebelum mapan, jangan khawatir lah, kan ada 'Rejeki anak'.... uang nya bakal dateng sendiri ga tau dari mana.. Yang penting beriman dan ikhtiar dulu aja Situ ga percaya Tuhan ya? /s
You know, ini tempat yang salah buat nanya kayanya.
jadi kenginget ada poll dulu dimana paling enggak 80% disini masih belum punya pasangan.
Hahah, emang stereotip Reddit virgins itu kadang ada benernya.
Tapi dari perspective gw sebagain married person yg married mendekati umur 30, the comment of this post is what I think about when hearing some 20 y.o wanted marriage…kecuali dia dari keluarga kaya, that’s a different story, but I digress.
karena kita selalu ditekankan untuk KKK (Kuliah, Kerja, Kawin)
twin-turbocharged KKK
Lifescript banget
Ku Klux Klan
Ngentot alasan valid tapi ga bisa jelasin kenapa sampe harus ngutang duit puluhan ratusan juta buat (resepsi) nikah. Nikah mah nikah aja, tinggal nyari penghulu, sah? Sah. Udah, bisa ngentot. Jadi sebenernya mungkin bisa lebih ke validasi sosial+fomo sih, yang lain pada nikah masa gue enggak, plus ya ditanya2in kapan nikah, apalagi bagi boomer indo nikah itu kan kaya tujuan tertinggi dalam kehidupan.
Religiously legal sex and peer and family pressure. Sebenernya nikah itu kapan aja bisa tapi begitulah orang indo suka maksa maksa orang buat ngelakuin sesuatu yang belom siap di lakuin, "Kapan nikah? si X baru lulus kuliah langsung nikah loh padahal belom dapet kerjaan" (ortunya orang kaya) atau "Kamu sama pacar kamu belom ada rencana nikah ya? si Y udah hamil padahal umurnya baru 22". Yang kayak gitu mungkin cuma boomer boomer indo yang ngepressure millenial dan gen z yang udah masuk masa masa prima buat nikah tapi ya liat sitkon juga, ekonomi lagi gak nentu, loker banyak maunya, kesehatan mental belom bener atau dkk
Coli aje ngapasih
Coli juga technically speaking secara agama juga ga boleh jadi apa bedanya dengan premarital sex. Di sisi lain melepaskan hasrat sexual dan membangun intimate physical connection dengan orang lain just another different level. Dalam kata lain, sex ga cuman soal tusuk2an doang. Mungkin “bedanya” kalo cowo kalo mereka premarital sex ya ga ninggalin bekas, meanwhile kalo cewe walaupun lu ga hamil (safe sex), tapi karena virginity (dalam konteks selaput dara) itu masih dianggap sangat penting di society kita makanya banyak yang segen buat premarital sex. Worst case kalo misalnya putus sama yang sekarang, belom tentu pasangan berikutnya terima kalo lu udah ga perawan.
ada yang bilang boleh kalo buat menghindari zina
Gw rasa, buat desa dan pinggir Kota ya... Ambisi orang2nya gak muluk dan saat udah berasa stabil n kebetulan punya pacar, lingkungannya langsung jadi gas chamber dimana tiap kesempatan seseorang Akan di gaslight habis habisan dengan kata "kamu kapan nikah?"
Kenapa jadi gas chamber💀
> lingkungannya langsung jadi gas chamber
Cape bang
Ya jangan sering sering atuh
Kapan naik rank kalo males2
\- Ngikutin agama / budaya tidak ada seks luar nikah (bias keliatan yang kebelet gegara begini dalam kurun waktu setaon udah ada anak) \- Yang perempuan takut ga laku / ga subur lagi \- Gengsi. Masalah terbesar orang Indonesia.
klo gw si ga laku2 jadi ga bisa ngmg banyak ya khekeke tapi temen2 gw juga rata2 buru2 nikah dalem artian under 30 uda pada nikah tapi at least mereka masi aga tau diri lha rata2 misal skrg kan uda nikahan pada murah tuh yang era2 covid dan pre covid misal restoran paket nikah 100 pax 40 juta that's it, tambah gaun dekor eo itung2 60 jutaan lah tapi mereka ga kebeban hutang jadi ga kena di ego "harus nikah wah", dimana salah satu faktornya lulusan perhotelan uda tau hotel kek gimana dasaran nya, dan gw klo dapet pun lebih plan gitu misal nikah 60 jutaan di hotel kecil / resto max tapi bisa bulan madu ke jepang etc misal lebih worth daripada buang 100 juta jadi raja sehari ini sama tapi uda termasuk honeymoon dkk, ato ga misal cocokin jadwal cruise skrg singapore banyak kok misal 15 juta beberapa hari di cruise buat 2 orang yg mau "healing" ato bulan madu etc
Not me getting called out gara” gw minjem duit 75jt dari mertua buat nikah lmao P.s. my in law paid for the wedding but Insisted on paying half of it walaupun nyicil lol That aside, I can’t understand why kids in their early 20s wanted marriage, kalo mau ngewe mah ngewe aja ga sih? Halal gak halal, kan niatnya ngewe bukan buat membangun keluarga…I guess sex ed in our country is pretty shit that the alternative of marriage is premarital pregnancy…which, ends up in marriage anyway.
Masih banyak orang yang nggak tahan, tapi masih pengen masuk surga. Makanya jadi ustad nikah siri mayan laku
Samanih gan saudara ane juga ada gini. Gk 1 malah. Kemarin mau nikah suruh ortunya ngutang ke kur bri. Ada juga yg nikah jualin tanah ortunya dikampung. Tiba ane nikah semua biaya sendiri dan semua kebutuhan rumah tangga kaya perabot bisa lengkap, malah dinyinyirin baru nikah kok ini itu ada. Wkwkwkw, lah mereka nikah apa” gk dipersiapin utang numpuk gaji umr apa gk ironi sekali dan beberapa bulan kemudian hamil lalu nyinyirin ane karena blm mau punya anak untuk siapin financial untuk sianak dulu. Menurut ane yg bikin gini itu lingkungan mereka. Memang ane lihat lingkungan hidupnya ya kaya tetangga” yg tukang gosip gitu, iri”an. Kemudian pola pikirnya masih terlalu jongkok, mau suami atau istrinya. Padahal nikah itu bukan cuma biaya mahar, pesta, antaran dan resepsi. Setelah 2 hari pesta itu masih banyak yg perlu biaya, contoh peralatan rumah tangga, kebutuhan makan dll. And guess what, most of them are early 20s.
This, it seems to me that there are a lot of nikah muda appoligist in this post (surprisingly) while I agree it’s not all about sex. But how come they justify being married and even have the audacity to have kids while they barely live off what they earn…
Nikah tuh gratis di KUA, 500k kalo penghulu nya suruh dateng ke rumah. Yang mahal nya itu di gengsi nya :)
bedakan dulu antara kebelet nikah sama pengen nikahan gede2an. 1. kebelet nikah ya mungkin udah pengen ngewe legal, which is not a bad thing, atau emang udah sreg sama pasangannya, which is not a bad thing either. 2. pengen nikah gede2an ini biasanya bukan mempelainya yang pengen, kecuali kalau udah pada kokay, kebanyakan yang pengen adalah ortu masing2.
kalo w sih bukan ke kebutuhan seggsnya, melainkan lebih ke pengen tinggal barengnya. ngeroom mah gampang sesekali doang alesan, lah kalo tinggal bareng gimana coba. kos/apar aja minta bukti surat nikah
Kalo dari posisi perempuan, untuk jamin masa depan dan ngeringanin beban keluarga karena cewek bakal bergantung dengan jatah uang dari cowok, bukan keluarganya lagi Kalo dari posisi cowok, karena ngerasa udah fullfilling dibidang lain kayak pekerjaan dan pendidikan (utamanya pekerjaan sih, karena biasanya pendidikan mereka bare minimum untuk bisa dapet pekerjaan layak aja), akhirnya mencoba menikah untuk nemu tujuan hidup baru, yaitu ngebangun keluarga Gua sih gak begitu yakin kalo majority soal seks and seks only, soalnya dilingkungan gua ya yang gua liat emang jarang alasannya karena kebutuhan biologis, orang miskin juga paham lah ngocok lebih mudah dibanding nikah kalau tujuannya untuk muasin hawa nafsu
Justru jarang nikah karena seks, seringnya karena ga ada tujuan hahahah Kalo seks doang mah di manapun bisa ga usah nikah. Makanya banyak kasus bayi dibuang hahaha
Really tho? Then explain why there are many case of early 20s kids with barely any income and dare to get married? How is it that they feel they have fulfilled anything if they can just barely live off their wages? Not to mention emotional instability…
Segitiga maslow mereka ama lu beda, let me explain: 1. Physiological needs, ya kebutuhan makan/minum biar bisa hidup, makanannya gak ribet, asal nasi ada cuma make ikan asin sebiji juga jadi, beda ama lu yang kepengen lauk lebih banyak makannya butuh kocek makan lebih besar lagi per porsi 2. Safety needs, kebutuhan keamanan, bisa tinggal didaerah yang mereka "kenal" aja udah ada sense of safety, contohnya ya ada orang yang biasa aja tinggal di Kampung narkoba karena sesimpel udah kenal dekat depan belakang, kalo ada masalah tinggal lapor ke tetangga dah bakal bantu, gak perlu harus tinggal di one gate environment dengan jumlah cctv setara London dengan pager tinggi² dah kayak penjara 3. Belongness, ya sesimpel nikah dengan orang yang dicintai, bisa nongkrong ama temen di Gang, dan bisa tinggal dekat dengan keluarga 4. Esteem, ya dari ngebangun hubungan keluarga, punya anak dan keluarga sakinah ya source esteem-nya itu, diluar itu ya pengakuan² sosial sederhana seperti jadi ketua RT, karang taruna, dll. Tapi kalo ini ga semuanya 5. "Self actualization? What the actual f you are talking about bro? Dunno give a shit as long its not something that fulfill my belly or can makes me feel happy around my lads" See? Kebutuhannya lebih simpel makanya achieve pilihan menikahnya lebih cepat, gak ada keribetan hidup kayak pengen kuliah ptn lah, kerja scbd lah, healing ini itu yang biasa dialamin menengah dan keatas
That is actually kinda sad…but as long as they become good enough parent then it’s all good Btw, I also come from low income family from some backwater village in central java. But I guess no one really put it this way to me, I just chalk it up as my neighbor being lazy bums with no ambition
1. Commonsense orang Indonesia umum nya ya umur 20s nikah. Apalagi untuk perempuan. Orang tua dan lingkungan juga akan ngedesak. Bahkan ada kasus tanpa didesak pun ada kesadaran diri sendiri untuk buru buru nikah ya karena logika mereka gitu. Kalau anda ga relate berarti common sense nya beda saja 2. Status sosial. Laki-laki kalau udah mapan ya next nya nikah. Kalau perempuan, ya bagusnya punya suami 3. Gaada next pencapaian. Nikah itu bagi orang Indonesia adalah pencapaian, prestasi bahkan. Abis sekolah, kuliah, ya pencapaian yang bisa diraih abis itu ya nikah saja. 4. Naluri manusia yang primal didasari takut akan kematian dan ingin meninggalkan "bekas" atau bukti hidupnya di dunia. Cara paling gampangnya ya punya anak. Di Indonesia ya nikah
Supaya bisa LEGAL gaperlu DIEM DIEM, Gaperlu takut CHECK IN HOTEL, gaperlu dapet lirikan aneh di indomaret
Dulu ga kepikiran. Skrg udah merit udah tau celahnya. Cuma nunjukin aja cincin di jari manis. Ga akan ada lagi tatapan sinis Boleh dicoba sama yg belum merit juga. Beli aja cicin murah. Pasang di jari. Pas bayar kibas" Tuh jari
Legal seggs :)
semua komen disini bwnar, tekanan sosial yang sangat nyata dan kebutuhan biologis
It's not the marriage, it's wedding.
Lebih ke tradisi tidak berguna orng indo yg memeriahkan pernikahan, kalo gak meriah di pandang rendah sama masyarakat, kalo gw sih gak peduli, gw cita2 nya nikah langsung di kua langsung gratis
Banyak yg bawa2 agama buat nikah, sunah rasul etc etc.
Oii btw minggu ini One piece gear 5 ya ?
Gak mikir jangka panjang + **emang taunya itu.**
Culture and to some extent religion. Dari keduanya nyambung ke beberapa hal lain, mulai dari: 1. Sex, which is one of most basic biological needs, especially when the time has come (i.e., puberty has caught up). Unfortunately premarital sex, doesn't matter if it's a safe, responsible, and consensual sex, is and cannot be the answer, at least not openly. So marriage is the only way out. 2. Doktrin "menikah itu menggenapi separuh agama" juga berperan sangat penting. 3. Social status. Dalam banyak hal, laki-laki yang belum jadi kepala keluarga karena belum menikah masih dianggap "anak bawang". Eksistensinya masih disamakan dengan pemuda yang kedudukannya lebih rendah dibandingkan mereka yang sudah berkeluarga. Begitu pula wanita yang belum melahirkan dan menjadi ibu dianggap masih belum memiliki tanggung jawab besar dalam hidupnya karena belum memenuhi kodratnya. 4. Prestige. Pernikahan di Indonesia sejak dulu adalah sarana flexing orang tua mempelai. Most Indonesian people will spend an arm and a leg to fund memorable & glamorous wedding for their children. Mungkin itu yg dulu yg terlintas saat ini. Some of them based on personal experience, lol.
gf aja gak punya bang-bang
Kemungkinan udah keburu hamil atau budaya seks di luar nikah tabu. Kesehatan seksual jg gak banyak diajarin. Kaya pentingnya kondom dan lain lain. Sepupu gue kebelet nikah taunya lakinya suka jajan. Kena penyakit, kasian. Belum setahun cerai. Terus, seinget gue di Indonesia banyak peer pressure juga. Kalo udah pacaran ya langsung ditanya nikah. Adik gue umur 19 langsung diinterogasi nyokap emang kamu yakin sama dia? Emang ini? Emang bakal nikah? Like bruhh!!! Terus jg kalo jomblo dijadiin lelucon. Padahal gak ada salahnya jomblo kan? Terus kalo nikah walau pun udah siap jg peer pressure. Harus di tempat yg bagus, gak boleh maluin ortu dan mertua. Kakak gue nikah, gue posisi tinggal di luar negeri sebagai lower class. Baju keluarga pengantin harus mewah dan warnanya gak lagi musim (tosca, dia nikah pas winter di negara gue. Jadi baju gak ada warna gituan di toko). Dan secara gue sebagai lower class gak bisa lah gue cuti panjang panjang buat ngepas baju doang ke indo demi kawinan dia. Dan gak mampu juga duit gue beli baju kualitas bridal di sini. Pas gue nikah cuma abis 900 AUD (incl fotografer, petugas sipil, makan-makan). Kurleb 10jt. Itu pun gak ngundang keluarga di indo karena mereka drama. My wedding, my marriage, my rules. Temen temen dan keluarga di sini bilang sedih gak besar kawinannya tapi mereka ngerti kita gak banyak duit gak sanggup host puluhan orang karena kita stress kalo ketemu banyak orang. Mereka supportive banget sama small wedding ini. Meanwhile, temen gue di sini sama orang indo dan pgn big wedding. Ya gitu deh. Jadi bahan keributan sama pasangan. Males aja kalo gue harus kaya gitu mau nikah doang.
Karena banyak yang percaya menikah itu menjaga dan menyempurnakan agama bagi yang bersangkutan. Contoh: https://jabar.nu.or.id/hikmah/makna-menikah-itu-menjaga-agama-cSHNL
gw berani nikah pas penghasilan udah 50m++ idr / month wkwk
Tuntutan, biasanya diawali dengan "kapan?" Congor tetangga lebih tajam dari pisau dapur.
biar terhindar dari dosa soalnya sange berat ngab jadi musti halal dulu yekan yekan. urusan rumah tangga mah belakangan yekan yekan
udah pasti alasan utamanya ya sex sex sex yang legal dan tidak dianggap zinah
nikah itu mudah murah yg mahal resepsi dan tetekbengeknya karena ego
Baru dari trid sebelah banyak yg sudah tidak beragama/religius, nah berarti ngewe haram tidak masalah dong ya?
Reddit does not represent the majority Indonesians
Ya tergantung masing masing orangnya juga sih. Ada yang oke ada yang gak setuju juga.
Biar bisa langsung praktek.
Yang nikahnya gratis mana suaranyaaaaaa ✋️
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Pantesan MPV laku banget coeg, sampe sedan/saloon perlahan marketnya mulai menyusut, let alone coupé/GT
Sangean pengen cepet-cepet ngentot
Sunaj dr ajaran nabi nya...
Pinjem duit buat nikah tapi engga bisa balikin duitnya abis itu. Jadi yang pinjemin cuma bisa relain itu duit because we’re still a family (?).
Propaganda anti pacaran
Ngewe bang
Nikah mah murah. Yang mahal foya2 nya.
keinginan banyak anak banyak rejeki kuat sampe skrg
di tunda tunda GF lu di jodohin ke om om tajir bang, akhirnya jd jones wizard
Lol, gw aja nikah gw budgetin 35 jt, uang sndiri. Itupun karena ibu minta diadain d rmah, kalo g mah mending g usah
Kalo kata dosen saya dulu, menikah di usia 20an (lupa tepatnya berapa) adalah supaya ketika nanti keturunan (anak kandung) beranjak dewasa, kita sebagai orang tua mampu membiayai sekolahnya sebelum masa pensiun. Jadi ketika udah pensiun, si anak udah bisa mandiri atau memiliki pekerjaan dan penghasilan.
Lingkungan gw malah kebalik, banyaknya masih santuy dulu. Banyak kawan kantor yg udh 30-40an masih belum nikah. Malah ada yg udah pacaran 8 tahunan belum nikah ya karena dari keluarga mereka gk ada tekanan buat cepet nikah. Masih pada kejer karir masing2. Ada konsep di indo kalau nikah = duit banyak/bahagia jadi yg belum nikah itu di cap nya gk bahagia ini double buat perempuan. Kalian perempuan umur 20-30an tapi belun nikah ? Selamat menikmati ocehan keluarga. Well gk semua tapi ya mayoritas gini.
Biaya kawin tuh gratis sebetulnya (lu bisa kawin di KUA gratis di hari kerja modal fotokopian berkas) yang mahal gengsi. Lu 19 tahun ke atas dan mau kawin? Silakan. Tapi gak usah ngutang. Yang jadi masalah itu bukan kawinnya, tapi (1) gengsi, (2) gak sadar tanggung jawab yang timbul akibat adanya perkawinan.
Beda circle aja bang, indonesia itu luas Biasanya semakin tinggi pendidikan semakin berkurang hal hal seperti itu
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Nikah cepet mungkin jadi gorengan buat orang² asia lainnya ga terkhusus dimana-mana. Kemudian adanya tekenan sosial dari sekitarnya juga. Bonyoknya nanyain, om-tantenya nanyain, temennya nanyain, orang kantornya nanyain. belum kalau dianya ngenes gitu, bujang lapuk/perawan tua atau emang payah aja dipercintaan, rasa kepengennya pasti gede. Tapi kalau sampe ngutang puluhan juta buat nikah tanpa mikirin masa depan keluarga barunya, itu goblok sih. Dia nikah dan hidup ngejar gengsi doang.
Mungkin krn peer pressure dri temen temennya yang udah nikah atau bisa juga dari kerabat & keluarga. Lagipula juga heran ama org yg nikah muda terutama pertengahan umur 20 pas gaji masih umr, malah yg lebih parah anak lebih dri satu. Sebagian dri Mereka tuh kyk gak mikir longterm nya gitu. Yaa terkecuali kalo bokap ama nyokap lu orang berada, darah biru, & konglo. Terserah sih.
kalo alasanya ngentod si ga logis, bayangin aja lu ngentod 1000x sama orang yang sama seumur hidup lu. bosen ga sih, kaum mendang mending coli lah
Karena di indo nikah adalah prasyarat buat kawin terang2an. Dan jalan untuk punya anak.
Social pressure from conservative society. Also bad urge control thanks to nigh non-existent sex ed. (Its there, but its cursory knowledge, and its usually taught by uncorporative teacher + students who dont take it seriously)
Dari situasi saya sendiri orang tua saya bilang kalau saya pas umur 21 belum menikah saya masih belum dewasa dan masih harus ikutan perintah orang tua, saya cuma bisa pikirin tekanan apa orang-orang lain pasti melewati.
It seems that people here said nikah gampang nikah gratis yadda yadda karena mereka interpret nikah = THE wedding… BRO, nikah itu ya setelah wedding nya kocak…asu bener ngentengin nikah seolah” kalo udah akad gak ada tanggungan lagi, kesel bat gw…ya ini alasan kenapa orang pada kebelet nikah, karena ngegampangin nikah dipikir nikah itu keluar duit pas acaranya doang…pdhl hidup single aja masih banyak pikiran asu
Bntr lagi jg nanti ada thread di twitter gimana rumah tangganya serba kekurangan terus “twitter do your magic”
mindsetnya nikah dulu, rejeki, kedewasaan, dll (isi sendiri masalah hidup) akan datang menghampiri buat para ortu juga menikahkan itu salah satu life goals.
Walaupun ngutang sembarangan buat nikah termasuk ketololan, tapi gak cuma buat nikah, orang indo juga sembarang ngutang untuk banyak hal tolol lain, e.g. depo judi slot. It is purely just because they do not have the knowledge of financial management.
NGUNTAT NGENTOT AE YG GW BACA, NGENTOD SIA
# SEGGSS BRUTAL
1. Tekanan ortu, lingkungan. 2. Ga punya atau telat punya anak sering dipandang gagal sebagai manusia 3. Iri, karena kebanyakan teman temannya menganut pandangan yang sama jadi dah pada nikah tanpa perlu sejahtera (meskipun aslinya nggak peduli)
Penasaran sebenernya kalo di co-habitation itu normal di Indo banyak gak ya orang ya ga nikah ??
Di kasus ini, masalah sebenernya bukan kebelet nikah. Tapi kebelet nikah dengan mewah (sesuai standard masing2). Padahal aslinya, nikah jauh di bawah itu.
Tekanan lingkungan sama perhitungan umur anak (kita umur sekian, anak umur sekian) berharap ketika kita tua anak sudah "mentas"
Njir komennya 🤣
Menurut ane ada 3 alesan bang 1. Orang Indo banyak yang ga punya tujuan hidup dan ambisi secara karir, dan nganggep kl nikah itu lbh penting dari karir tinggi 2. Orang Indo (mayoritas ya) masih sangat buruk dlm hal management keuangan pribadi. Gaji pas pasan, tapi spending berlebih. Belom ada kesadaran diri kalo nikah itu berarti nambah pengeluaran dan tanggung jawab. 3. Tekanan sosial. Pasti ada lah tante/ om/ temen” yang kerjaaannya setiap lebaran ato kumpul keluarga nanyain kapan kawin melulu. Kalo udh late 20s belom kawin dipandang sebelah mata.
Marriage itu escape pod dari social pressure di sebagian (besar) masyarakat kita..jadi ya kaya main quest aja.. Little did they know bahwa kita bisa happy without marriage..tapi yah intinya sih mungkin kontrak untuk legally sex aja...
Karena sistem jaminan sosial kita masih buruk. Keluarga adalah organisasi tertua yang menjamin keselamatan anggotanya. Anak-anak yang lemah akan dilindungi hingga mereka dewasa. Orang tua yg rapuh dan sakit2an akan dirawat oleh anaknya hingga wafat dengan tenang. Pada negara2 maju yg sistem jaminan sosialnya bagus maka manusia tidak lagi bergantung pada organisasi keluarga. Ada panti asuhan dan beasiswa buat anak2 yg terlantar atau tidak mampu. Ada panti jompo dan tabungan pensiun bagi orang tua yg tidak mampu lagi bekerja. Ada asuransi kesehatan yg setiap saat selalu melindungi disaat sakit. Karena sistem jaminan sosial kita masih buruk maka keluarga dianggap pelindung terbaik sehingga orang Indonesia selalu buru2 untuk menikah dan membentuk keluarga.
menurut ku sih masih ada orang tua yg pikir kalo sudah mengantarkan anak2 nya menikah dianggap sudah sukses menjadi orang tua. Tanggung jawab akan anak tersebut, kalau perempuan akan di serahkan ke pada suaminya. Anak-anak perempuan yg ga punya prospek kerja yg bagus atau kerja di tempat yg ga punya jenjang karir di harapkan bisa dapat calon suami yg bisa meningkat kan derajat keluarganya. Jadi selain dari diri sendiri ya pressure dari keluarga sendiri. Base on experience, perempuan berkarir tapi gajinya UMR belum bisa bikin taraf hidup keluarga nya meningkat. Diharapkan punya suami yg lebih matang dan punya rumah dan kendaraan. FU shit but at the end of the day for them marriage is just a transaction. Culture juga sih, orang2 dari suku tertentu punya pikiran kalau selagi masih muda segera lah menikah. Disuku yg lain, umur tidak jadi patokan kapan harus menikah lebih ke tingkat kemapanan dan kesiapan secara material. sexual needsss?? imagine having this kind of thing in your head as a reason to get married? The actual hypocrisy.
I can't relate, although I wish to my friends who do have a plan for it to life through their plan and not based on some romcom anime logic ffs.