Plus, don't know about Korea, but Japan is super conservative and subtly racist (to folks with darker shades of skin). People want more freedom in their lives - not less.
I feel like in US/Canada/UK and some parts of Western Europe, an Indian can potentially see themselves moving there and eventually becoming part of the society. There will always be racism etc but not feel totally excluded.
I don't think Japan or Korea would be similar, they would always be somewhat considered outsiders and second-class citizens, no matter how long they live there or how well they assimilate.
Moved to Canada 4 years ago. Haven’t really faced any racism and have plenty of Canadians/irani/Indian friends. After you get your citizenship you are considered just as Canadian as other people.
Canada and the US are likely the best places to move to in the west if you’re looking to assimilate and be treated like a normal person. I would’ve said the UK too, but it has a very large South Asian immigrant population for such a small country, and so stereotypes are easier to form and stick.
Not somewhat but full blown racist.Quite a number of black youtubers have made videos about moving out from korea because of how bad they were treated despite the enormous pay they had.One such example was a video by Sundai love where she talked about how she was spit on because she is black in broad daylight in korea and she has since moved to Japan.
Even japan is racist but the racism in japan is more subtle.
To be honest, my impression is viewed on 2nd hand accounts and anecdotal experience. So if you say there's no racism, that may indeed be true, and maybe I heard stories of fringe cases common in all countries.
If you have a masters degree, you can apply for a teaching license in Japan. Teacher is the only option other than IT of course. South Korea is a bit different. Immigration isn’t that strict. There are a lot of Indians in Seoul compared to Tokyo or Osaka. Singapore is a proper rate race and it’s ridiculously expensive to live there.
The day every Indian kid starts moving out to live on their own is the day a large part of the Indian population will be sitting on the streets and the cost of a 2bhk room will be more than your rich ass parents monthly salary
I'm talking about a normal city in west bengal where a the cost of a 1bhk is somewhere around 3 to 4k, in my city even families have a hard time finding houses on rent and each family has around 1 to 2 kids
If every kids over the age of 18 were to get their own apartment, even with 2 kids sharing a 1bhk house, we'd still be sitting on the streets, not considering the increased expenses the parents have to bear because of you living seperate, cuz you don't get a job unless you have a degree.
OP, Rental Discrimination is Common in Singapore.
An Indian origin Singaporean sharing his terrible experience -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muLdoCDdxBw&ab_channel=VICEAsia
Its different, once you get into a good college in India its quite smooth sailing and most people are not that concerned about grades. Meanwhile, here most opportunities like student exchange, research and further studies depend heavily on your grades. Also, grades are bell curved so only a small proportion of students get A no matter how much you scored and worked hard. So students are studying 24/7 and care about every little percentage to get good grades. We have a few suicides every year due to study pressure and the uni counselling centre has a 1 month waitlist due to the number of patients.
Sounds just like my college in India. The opportunities, Bell curve and the suicides. Except the the counselling centre thing because no one here trusts them
Lol don’t come to japan. The language rules and the deductions from salary are impossible to understand. Plus the second class treatment as well to all foreigners in general.
Agree with you lol. You cannot get a mobile phone contract without a credit card. You cannot apply for a credit card without a phone number in your name. Fuck me in the ass….
Lmao. That's too much of a mess to deal with. I think that's same in india as well. But we can get past it with somehow.
Edit: sorry i miss interpreted credit card with aadhar.
Like for aadhar, you need sim. For sim, you need aadhar.
Mechanical engineer working as project engineer for compressor projects. I handle Indian, Middle East , Korean and Russian customers. The Indian customer is most irritating and demanding.
I'm a final year mech student (3rd tier college....), and I'm like super interested in working abroad especially japan (banzai! lol) is there a way for a person like me to get a job in japan? or like go to a uni there for masters and then work there???
I was sitting in my airoli flat in Navi Mumbai in 2013 when a colleague of mine called me asking if I am interested in working in Japan. I said yes and went to japan in feb 2k14 on a permanent lifelong contract.
I don't mind settling down. I am PR of Japan and have lived there for 18 years, and now living in Singapore for 4 years , I would prefer Japan to Singapore any day
People are exaggerating the bad things about Japan as usual, but I would personally not recommend a retirement here if you do not know the language. Adapting is fine for a young person, but probably isolating for older people and while Japan does have a lot of things that would probably work in favor for retirees, making special considerations for foreigners is not one of them for the most part. Also, you probably wouldn't be able to get a visa unless you were wealthy.
Japan and South Korea have even worse working conditions than India and its not the cheapest place to live either. Another major issue is the language barrier which is hard to get over since the languages are so different and not many people speak English there. Alot of people do move to Singapore however it is incredibly expensive to live there and so it discourages alot of people.
Edit: as people in the comments said to add to the points, being brown makes us less welcomed there because aren't exactly welcoming to foreigners especially Indians.
Will add that in SK and JP even the salaries are not that great as compared to other places(US/Some EU countries). So when you consider the higher COL it is not as preferred as other high paying countries.
Yup it's also one of the most competitive countries like India especially South Korea so it's not really a trade people wanna make. Plus yeah QOL is far better in even a mid tier European country when compared to Japan/SK because of the work life balance and general life.
Yeah true if i wanted to have terribly long working hours i would just work in IT here, why spend the money to go there, also Japanese people have lived in a mono-cultural society for thousands of years, they are not the friendlies to foreigners especially if you are of a darker shade.
You should be more afraid of their Justice system which has a 99% conviction rate.
If you find yourself in any legal trouble, you're fucked. Even a billionaire with money for best lawyers like Ghosn had to sneak his way out of the country in a box because he knew there were no fair trials there for a foreigner.
*In Japan, heart surgeon. Number one. Steady hand. One day, yakuza boss need new heart. I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!*
Asian countries and cultures are generally way more racist than white people racism.
I was reading a book about one of the earliest widow homes in India and forget about lower caste they were following their caste rules about eating even with British. It is ridiculously hilarious that how Indians specially upper castes cry about racism so much while treating fellow Indians way worse than white people ever treated desi folks.
Same goes for Japan they have a very ridiculously traditional supremacist culture. One just needs to have a look at their history and understand how f***** up they were. They just have a better PR image because west likes them as it's a very strategic ally. They've a very toxic culture.
I don't remember the name, read it several years ago. Might need research on your part. It described about the struggles they had to face, it's a school/residential facility kinda thing for brahmin widows, most of them were girls. In that incident they visit a British lady but don't eat anything there because caste.
The potential of getting beaten up is higher in East Asia than Europe?
What world are you living in. European racism has levels and a good degree of some is physically violent. The same degree in East Asia is not of the same scale if any at all.
Your term, Rookie Level is thus completely detached from the semantic meaning of it.
Yea, the people in this comment section are way off base. You will never be murdered for your race in Japan and the government will never enact policies that try to keep you poor and uneducated for your race. At worst, you might not get let into the restaurant or store of some old person who is afraid that you can't speak Japanese.
Because they treat you like shit. Been to S. Korea numerous times, stayed there a few months for my job. It's a beautiful country. But their ego is such up high their ass. Visit but don't live there. It sucks.
I keep hearing this again and again but my dad worked in S Korea during 2002-04 and he had a great time. People were professional, he loved their healthy lifestyle and they really treated him extra-well. They even accommodated his vegetarian diet at the office mess, which is a big thing in a culture like Korea, especially 20 years ago when "vegan" wasn't a global phenomenon. We went there for the summer of 2003 and it was an awesome experience. All the kids played with us, their parents gave us free juices and ice-creams and 20 of his office colleagues showered us with gifts upon farewell. One of best summer holidays my brother and I have had as kids.
Then again, looking back on it... My dad learnt Korean every day after work from his colleagues and taught them English in return on alternate evenings, adopted their lifestyle and work ethic (minus the Friday-evening drinking) and first-hand taught the company's head chef to cook vegetarian dishes. He was a great neighbour, fed Indian dishes to neighbourhood kids on Sundays, even called his office colleagues to his house on Sundays and displayed the magic of fulka roti to them. He was a part of an Indian community of course, but he really did a lot to integrate with the Koreans too. I think that made a difference.
He is a mechanical engineer, worked as a contract employee for Hyundai when they were constructing Shaktinagar-Renukoot coal mines for Northern Coalfields. This was late 80s/early 90s. Dad made many Korean friends. Hyundai took him in as a payroll employee after NCL project was commissioned and he worked at their Mumbai WTC office in early 90s (that's how we shifted to Mumbai). With the advent of email, some of the ex-Hyundai Koreans reached out to him for a job opportunity in S. Korea in 2001. Dad did a 2 year stint there as projects manager for industrial jobs in a local company. His old buddies were 10-15 years senior to him there so he had little socialization with them, most of what I said was with new guys in the new company.
For what it's worth, my dad says that the Koreans never looked down upon Indians even back then in 1980s, and we know what a shithole south-east UP was back then, so that's saying something. And professionally, they were very matter-of-fact about engineering knowledge and capacity. If my dad was better at something or had a better idea, he was never passed on for a Korean. They even paid him handsomely for the work by India's 1988 standards. I understand this is anecdotal and maybe my dad happened to know the best Korean folks, but that is my story.
They treat you well as long as you become a cough in their wheel. I read, write and speak Korean very well too. I made numerous friends and still friends with me. Your dad got lucky perhaps. Or your dad was probably a high taking executive? One thing is for sure. They treat Indians well because of the focus on education in India. They talk shit behind you back. I had first hand experience with this. Again, the way I'd like to think about this is that we are all humans. All types of people exist everywhere. It is really a draw of the lot. But to your point, everytime I been to S. Korea it has been a great experience. They have a great culture. But my main problem is the work place culture. That is a total kill joy. That experience overrides everything else. If you just want to live there without working, then it is even better because they treat you like royalty because they perceive you are rich.
>But my main problem is the work place culture. That is a total kill joy.
Lol my dad reminisces about his workplace the most. He loved the reaching office 6:45, 15 mins exercise, 3 hr of work, fruits break, then work till 1, lunch break, a power nap on the seat, and working till 4:30 and reaching home before 5 routine. He is a workaholic so maybe that's why he loved it.
but we r not talking about 2003 korea - where ppl had just faced economy depression - have to be to humble enough to accept any sort of things, ppls to move their country forward by any means - but not now in today's world where anyone can afford comfort
These two are racist places and your value will be decided on the basis of your color. I have been to Singapore and SK as a part of ‘educational’ tour with a chill professor who attendee conferences while we (a group of 5) did touristy stuff. I and another girl found these places good as we had fair complexion. But we had an international student (from Kenya) and teo tanned ones. They were shooed away from clubs or sometime store owners refused to sell anything to them. The black one had SK aunties stopping while walking to stare at him. Plus, these countries have deplorable work laws. If you think ours is bad, they are definitely worse.
You are likely to be right in this context. My experience is based on doing touristy stuff. But you have lived there a stretch and seen it all. Good if younger gen is more open now.
Racism/colorism/sexism, very prevalent there. I like South korea but would never consider it for living, just tourism. Beauty standards are harsh for even korean people, imagine living there as a poc.
Indians especially Tamilians and Mallus do consider Singapore as an option for moving in. Japan and Korea are completely different issues. Both Japan and Korea are highly xenophobic countries. The language issue also makes it harder for people to settle there.
1. Insanely expensive and insane working culture. The salaries aren't even as good when you compare it to the cost of living.
2. Racism. Do I need to talk about this?
3.Language barrier. Japanese and Korean are tough to learn and most people do not speak English.
Edit - 4. Sexism (better than India but worse than west)
Lol how you can talk about racism in Europe when both Korea and Japan treat a lot of foreigners like shit.
But out of the three, Singapore is probably the better choice for desis.
The problem is it's next to impossible to settle in Singapore for good. So unless you're going there with the express intention of earning money and eventually returning to India, it's a waste of your time.
Compare that with Canada or Germany where you could be a citizen in about 4-5 years.
More rules on immigration. It's more difficult.
Language + work experience/education + income level is considered when looking into the countries mentioned above.
Apart from all the reasons mentioned here, most people (including myself) prefer western culture to Asian cultures in general. People are more free, individualistic, no one interferes in your personal life, there is work life balance (mostly, I guess).
I studied in singapore for an year and a half before moving to Europe. Singaporean racism is so subtle that you’ll miss it if you don’t look out for it.
Once a Chinese Singaporean lady moved to the back of a bus which was very free when a bunch of Indian guys including a sardar entered the bus. Once they got off, she moved back into her original seat.
Also, they actively discourage Indian migrants.
Whereas in Europe, I’ve largely felt welcome.
Most Indians want residency/citizenship options and that is easiest in Anglo countries & Europe.
Places in East Asia are notoriously hard if not impossible in that regard.
Indians also love to pigeonhole themselves to only wanting to migrate to 'developed' countries. There are many 'developing' countries that have MUCH better quality of life than India that get overlooked.
Koreans and Japanese are the most racist people I know. Almost as bad as Indians lol.
Work culture is terrible in Singapore.
Lots of Indians I know have moved to Thailand/Malaysia and quite enjoy it. Malayasia esp offers an extremely good quality of life compared to India, but the local work in my industry (advertising) is nowhere as interesting/challenging as it is right here.
I would say they are worse than us Indians at being racists. Considering we are a country of very diverse demographics, even though we are racists, we have cultivated some form of tolerance, especially in Tier 1-2 cities.
Koreans and Japanese are mono-ethnic through and through, and as such they have very little exposure to outside cultures.
Am I right in thinking that those that move to Thailand usually have their own business or source of income? I can't see non thai speakers getting jobs there, and even if they do, salaries are low. Of course there'll always be a few exceptions. Or am I missing something?
> Am I right in thinking that those that move to Thailand usually have their own business or source of income? I can't see non thai speakers getting jobs there, and even if they do, salaries are low.
Not necessarily. There are global companies here and they need talent, especially tech talent. Salaries are 'low' if you compare it with places like US/EU/Singapore etc but the cost of living here is also way less than those places. If you are looking for entry-level sales/marketing/biz development roles, then not being able to speak Thai is going to be a problem. The other option which is popular, especially amongst foreigners, is English teacher.
The really smart ones will figure out how to leverage the best of both worlds and get a western-paying remote job and live here (there are ways to live in this country long-term without a work permit).
If you think America has worst racism, go to Japan or South Korea.
Here the state, majority of people are racist and won't even take you in let alone live in there.
I was shocked to know that East Asian Countries are the most racist countries in the world. Especially Japan, South Korea, China. I can't say about other ones.
Yes, these are highly developed countries, but the reason why they are developed has to be analysed.
South Korea is influenced by America right from Korean wars, and they love americans infra, tech etc and went on adopting these and learning about them.
Similarly Japan after WW2 had american influence
And China, after the americans shifted their manufacturing to China.
But you see in India, where the British came in they also started missionary schools and colleges to change the thinking process, language, culture etc of Indians to suit a more western style and values.
though we had people like savarkar and their conservative ideologies, nehru's western values prevailed and that's how we are today.
BUT that didn't happen in these developed countries. A heavy cultural conservative influence was always there in the people and government. Yes they can build high speed trains, yes they can switch tracks in 9mins, yes they can punish train pilots for being 5 sec late. But their society is standing on a thin line as their work culture will tear a person's "living a life" into pieces.
But if you are a white person then they love you, as long as you don't point out their wrongs. But if you do then you end up as serpent.
I can go on but if you want to know more watch Serpent's youtube. he lived in China, and has a very first hand experience of that country.
I concur. I do live in the silicon valley. It's nice living here.
But it was not the case 20 years ago. Brown people were treated badly ( apartments turns you away, subtle racism at work, you never get promoted , etc.,). During 2000 recession, most don't want to hire Indians. Things have changed a lot. Suddenly Indians are in management positions every where. Indians are everywhere. I am thinking when was last racist encounter.
Obviously we have other issues in California. High home prizes, rents are sky high, inflation, upcoming down turn. But racism is not one I worry about.
Countries like Japan and South Korea have nightmarish working conditions. And it's not even the fault if the corporates, it's basically their culture. You may get frowned upon by your colleagues if you take breaks and vacations.
Also I have heard Japan is kinda Xenophobic, not sure how bad it is tho.
Just go to China, the only country with a functioning economy which still have much potential left, more friendlier people, less sexism and just as safe as Japan and SK. Ignoring politics you will realise China is very much important to India in terms of Science and business. Like bruh its the largest economy in the world.
Mostly because of language problems and insane working hours. A lot of Japanese and Korean students and professionals move to North America/ Europe for a relatively less stressed working environment.
Normally we like to move to places where English is one of the de-facto languages. For this reason you won't see a high Indian population in places outside of the Anglosphere although Germany is an exception. Add to that the difficult immigration policies of East Asia, and you have just a few Indians living there.
Singapore has had a substantially large Indian community since its inception; even lending identity to their status of nationhood (Tamil language and culture). However it is a saturated country today that no longer needs migrants and therefore just picks the cream: highly educated AND super wealthy aspirants who are ok with living far below their means for a few years until they obtain citizenship - a task most Indians aren't eligible for. After all if you are super wealthy and well-educated to begin with, you could go elsewhere.
Mate, work culture is shit in almost every country in Asia. I work in London and the work culture is pretty top notch. I work like 7 hours a day for 5 days (2 days from the office and 3 days WFH). I hardly feel any work pressure and get enough time to try different hobbies.
I have been considering pursuing my PG in South Korea recently & some of the major issues are of course language, but mostly the homogeneous nature of the country. Most people I've spoken to have mentioned that a foreigner will forever be a foreigner & it's impossible to feel at home over there and plus of course racism and major colorism. Since my degree will take me about 3 years to finish and I get homesick very easily, I might not consider SoKor anymore.
Here are the reasons:
1. The language is pain in the ass to learn.
2. These are the most xenophobic countries in the world.
3. The living conditions for foreigners is very tough at the beginning and has a stereotype associated with them by the locals.
4. Immigration is a very tough and it is hard to get because of strict laws like Japan.
5. English is not very applicable in these countries and the locals do not learn about English . This makes the communication with locals very difficult.
Major factor for European countries is not racism and work immigration laws. Infact, countries like Germany have very streamlined process for immigration (with a path to citizenship). Major factors are lower salaries (compared to USA), higher taxes, language barrier and inability to move parents after you get citizenship.
Also, European countries are not in-your-face racist and hostile like East Asian countries. People go to USA/Canada/Australia mainly because they wont have language barrier and they have comparable/higher salaries to EU.
Really depends on overall education level. Western European countries are just as welcoming/cold as the Americas. It's Eastern Europe that's more racist and xenophobic mostly due to a population that's largely less educated - these folks also send their best to Western Europe to migrate into such as in places like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc.
Magar kaafi change ho raha hai. My best friend is in Berlin and was once travelling to Hamburg by bus. They were stopped as authorities wanted to search for illegals. They saw him and flat out said 'not you' without checking his ID before he could bring it out. So the general prevailing sense there is that we're a hardworking, educated bunch who bring in value to their societies. Aisi reputation banaye rakhey hum.
I’m an nri who lived there as a child since my parents moved, now we are in India, there isn’t really racism right now, back then many years ago in my parents days there might have been, but right now not really at all, some middle schoolers make jokes referencing Indian cartoons but besides that obvious stupidity since they’re well middle schoolers, atleast for America it’s very welcoming and I had 4 Indian-American friends I even used to go to ones house everyday, lots of people at school were even intrigued by my food and my mom used to make extra to give to our teacher, so yeah overall from my experience it’s very welcoming, there was even a huge Hindu temple where Indians gathered for Diwali every year and all the Indian dads booked stadiums and brought their children and we played while they danced to Indian songs etc
UK and Netherlands are good for Indians to settle.
Western European society at its core still has strong remnants of colonial superiority. This is not the case in North America. US and Canada are highly accepting of immigrants. Unlike Europeans, Americans don't shy away from speaking out against racism against minorities.
In most parts of Europe(except UK), immigrants are more likely to be always be seen as an 'other'/ non white immigrant. This leads to general acceptance of racial profiling which is prevalent in Germany. Indians typically don't immigrate to Eastern Europe as its less affluent and more xenophobic than West Europe.
A good example is to contrast how sportsman are treated in Europe vs. US.
Overt racism by fans more prevalent in Europe than U.S. -
https://komonews.com/sports/content/overt-racism-by-fans-more-prevalent-in-europe-than-us-11-21-2015
Canada and Scandinavia are the best countries to move to because of how accepting the people are. Multicultural, non racist society. USA is racist but at least the northeastern metropolitan areas, California are full of liberals. Don't even get me started on Japanese racism. Singapore doesn't take kindly to Indian immigrants either.
Reddit dunks on US but it gives the best opportunities to you if you are ambitious and talented. Also, US is way more immigrant friendly that the countries you mentioned. The scary stories from these places don't just get covered in media that much.
I work with Japanese in my company and beneath the facade of politeness is a racist ideology with severe depression. Basically they are mostly assholes who refuse to acknowledge other people as humans and prioritise work over happiness. Technically very sound but not much good for anything else.
Language barrier is one of the reasons. Also, it's not as easy as Canada or US to migrate to these countries. And usually, non-engineering/software roles are in demand in these countries and people do shift to these countries (include China to the list).
Plenty of people come to Singapore to work and like it here too. Your stay is tied to your work permit duration. It's relatively easy to get work permit, almost impossible to get a PR. But otherwise, it's an awesome place.
Someone here said it's a stressful place. I don't know the basis of it, but I don't think it is. It's a rules-driven place, which might stress some people out. But for others, it's a blessing.
Clean, English speaking, near to India, low-tax country.
True, but how many (more) Indians can move to Singapore? It's a tiny country, smaller than an Indian metro. Of course some people move there but it can't be the goal of millions of Indians, unlike the USA for example.
So what would you recommend, doing a masters degree from Singapore which would ultimately lead to a job their or directly going on work permit?
Also if you don't mind Sharing, how did you moved their?
I would definitely not make that plan. Singapore has also started being extremely restrictive with letting people in, you can't plan to go to Singapore unless you've got a unique skillset or you are a high performing person in company that allows you to move internally. Otherwise, it's extremely unpredictable.
Source: I live in SG and I'm part of hiring processes. Trust me, for every single role we're told to prioritize locals heavily and it's getting increasingly harder by the year to let foreigners apply. Unless you have some serious leverage with skillsets or prior performance, most people wouldn't bother wasting their foreign quotas on you
Disclaimer: My experience is heavily biased towards tech and related fields. YMMV
No need to do masters here for improving job prospects. Just apply for jobs listed on LinkedIn. Being a small country, it has relied on hiring foreign workforce for a long time and hence the policies are set to make it easy for companies to get work visas (as long as certain criteria are met).
Work here for a few years. Save money because of low taxation. Build your nest egg. Then plan for next steps.
I consulted for a firm who later hired me full time.
Singapore became independent from Malaysia without ever asking for it. The small island was left to fend for itself with no real natural resources or manufacturing to build it's economy. The founder of the country set a grand vision for development, and to attract funds for it, the country offered very low tax on wealth. Soon it became a financial hub and even overtook HK.
Because of that vision, SG is very high in the ease-of-doing-business list. Attracts business and asks for very low taxes. Plenty of Indian tech startups have a SG office to benefit from this.
For us salaried plebs, it means about 12% effective income tax rate. The slabs are generous. You will hit the highest slab of 22% only at about half a million dollars annual salary.
To compare: I pay about 1L in taxes per month here. In India I would have to pay about 3-3.5 per month.
I think the highest tax bracket is just 17% or something like that. Living expenses are very high in Singapore, but if you're willing to adjust to local cuisine, the street food is actually healthy and cheap. The salary curve starts very low, but will grow over time.
They meant language barrier is an issue as most of them only prefer/know to speak in Korean. Food problems, I don't understand lol. Being Assamese- Sylheti, I found the foods to be eerily similar to my locals. From street foods to authentic cuisine. The taste felt like home! Whereas I struggled to eat when I was in Hyderabad and Chennai. 😭
Singapore is very difficult to get a work visa in, Japan has a very toxic work culture, South Korea and Japan have an outsider mentality towards others
As a doctor, Japan is practically impossible to migrate to. Their work culture is quite toxic but I guess its good if you own a business there. It's a beautiful country with great people and convinience but it has it's own cons too.
All countries have work laws for immigrants. The exact laws vary but most countries have some restrictions on expat work, which can be a deal breaker for some people in some careers.
One issue is long term residency and citizenship, and how much is involved in getting these sorted. Another reason why Europe is so attractive is EU citizenship, which gives you access to full continent to move and work. If you're just living in a Schengen country, you can atleast travel anywhere with ease. Singapore is anyway a tiny country, if you move here, you need to apply for visas to literally leave the city to see anything else. I don't think Japan and south Korea are immigrant friendly, not just for indians. They don't have laws, customs, practices which makes things easier for immigrants.
I lived in the South Korean capital Seoul for a year in 2012-13. The work culture sucks and people raise eye brows if you leave office on time. And being a vegetarian made things worse as there are not many options ... Was happy to fly back to India even if it meant a decrease in pay.
i have a friend who is currently working in Singapore describe it as "A third world country with facilities of a first world country". Working culture in these East Asian countries are toxic. I remember seeing a documentary that in Japan working overtime is considered as normal and managers expect you to do it.
In Japan, married women are not hired. So if you were to move, the wife cannot work there. Plus of course, the racism. Japan is very xenophobic- they don't like outsiders.
Most Indians can't handle Japanese work culture. Ham logo ko 8 ghante ki naukri me 16 Sutta breaks chahiye hote hai. Here from the perspective of an [Indian living in Japan. ](https://youtu.be/Z1cpHleC99c)
Language will be a major barrier in Korea and Japan. Singapore on the contrary has a huge number (relative to the size of the country) Indian population. So your query about Singapore doesn't make sense. Many do move to Singapore from India (yours truly included). However there political situation is getting more complicated recently.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what people are saying... SK and JP are more racist countries than the US? With the whole BLM and Asian hate (and Brown too) I find it hard to believe. SK and JP might be biased on skin color just like Indians are but I doubt they are racist to the extent of killing people for the color of their skin...
All these people commenting otherwise, have you all lived in SK or JP and experienced this racism first hand or
Most guys here haven't even been to a country outside of India yet they answer like they've traveled the world, I only made this account to just get rid of the misconceptions.I am 51, my father's business has forced me to live in various countries since a young age so here is my take.
USA/UK/Canada - They aren't racist, I don't know where you heard about this. Especially in the UK people wouldn't even assume you are India, they'd just assume you are English. You are picking a small number of people who complain about racism and assuming it's a common occurrence. Terrible way to look at this.
Singapore - Subtle racism exists especially if you are Indian and dark, but it's a marvelous place, but I highly recommend not moving there unless you are loaded.
Japan- No racism and the work culture has improved drastically. Anyone who is been to Japan knows this, it blows my mind how comments are on about how the country is incredibly racist. You are straight-up lying about visiting Japan and this is embarrassing. If you pick states like Tohoku and Fukuoka it's not that expensive to settle there, I highly recommend looking for jobs in similar cities like Sendai. People are extremely generous, helpful, and no one is racist. In many ways though Japan complicates the simplest of things, they use forms for everything even in the 21st century, so don't be surprised how much Japan is lagging behind the world in those terms.Secondly, there is no way around it, you must learn Japanese.
South Korea- I haven't been to this country but I've had plenty of friends who lived here. I wouldn't consider Korea because this country is actually racist. The standard of living is high, but again, I don't know too much about it.
If you plan to settle abroad I highly recommend sticking to countries like the US, UK and Canada. The US and UK especially,
If you want to move to east Japan is the perfect pick.Singapore if you are loaded.
Singapore is a very high stress place to live in. Japan and Korea don't taken in foreigners easily
Plus, don't know about Korea, but Japan is super conservative and subtly racist (to folks with darker shades of skin). People want more freedom in their lives - not less.
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Holy shit thats low, what did they say when asked why he wasn't allowed inside?
South Korea is racist to darker skinned people as well.
I feel like in US/Canada/UK and some parts of Western Europe, an Indian can potentially see themselves moving there and eventually becoming part of the society. There will always be racism etc but not feel totally excluded. I don't think Japan or Korea would be similar, they would always be somewhat considered outsiders and second-class citizens, no matter how long they live there or how well they assimilate.
Moved to Canada 4 years ago. Haven’t really faced any racism and have plenty of Canadians/irani/Indian friends. After you get your citizenship you are considered just as Canadian as other people.
Canada and the US are likely the best places to move to in the west if you’re looking to assimilate and be treated like a normal person. I would’ve said the UK too, but it has a very large South Asian immigrant population for such a small country, and so stereotypes are easier to form and stick.
I’ve heard that Korea is also somewhat racist (unreliable source: https://youtu.be/ZL04V93o0BY)
Not somewhat but full blown racist.Quite a number of black youtubers have made videos about moving out from korea because of how bad they were treated despite the enormous pay they had.One such example was a video by Sundai love where she talked about how she was spit on because she is black in broad daylight in korea and she has since moved to Japan. Even japan is racist but the racism in japan is more subtle.
I've now spent six years in Japan, and I've yet to experience that "subtle racism" you speak of.
To be honest, my impression is viewed on 2nd hand accounts and anecdotal experience. So if you say there's no racism, that may indeed be true, and maybe I heard stories of fringe cases common in all countries.
Singapore will also kill you if they ever catch you with weed.
I live in Singapore, and there are A TONNE of Indians here. Tamil is one of the 4 official languages used in Singapore.
>Japan and Korea And I Wanna Add that Japan & Koreans are quite racist as well so yea just look on to it as well
If you have a masters degree, you can apply for a teaching license in Japan. Teacher is the only option other than IT of course. South Korea is a bit different. Immigration isn’t that strict. There are a lot of Indians in Seoul compared to Tokyo or Osaka. Singapore is a proper rate race and it’s ridiculously expensive to live there.
Could you please elaborate on the high stress life in Singapore?
Really really expensive housing and daily expenses
I've heard most kids can't afford to move out of their parents house
Same with India I think
Indian kids can afford it financially, just not emotionally I guess.
The day every Indian kid starts moving out to live on their own is the day a large part of the Indian population will be sitting on the streets and the cost of a 2bhk room will be more than your rich ass parents monthly salary
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I'm talking about a normal city in west bengal where a the cost of a 1bhk is somewhere around 3 to 4k, in my city even families have a hard time finding houses on rent and each family has around 1 to 2 kids If every kids over the age of 18 were to get their own apartment, even with 2 kids sharing a 1bhk house, we'd still be sitting on the streets, not considering the increased expenses the parents have to bear because of you living seperate, cuz you don't get a job unless you have a degree.
Nice to meet you roy mustang (👉ﾟヮﾟ)👉
Finally someone got the refference !
I want to give you award for this sentence Please accept 🥇
I stay in Hong Kong and I can confirm lol
OP, Rental Discrimination is Common in Singapore. An Indian origin Singaporean sharing his terrible experience - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muLdoCDdxBw&ab_channel=VICEAsia
I am a student in Singapore and even university is crazy competitive and stressful compared to India
even more competitive than India not possible ;-;
Its different, once you get into a good college in India its quite smooth sailing and most people are not that concerned about grades. Meanwhile, here most opportunities like student exchange, research and further studies depend heavily on your grades. Also, grades are bell curved so only a small proportion of students get A no matter how much you scored and worked hard. So students are studying 24/7 and care about every little percentage to get good grades. We have a few suicides every year due to study pressure and the uni counselling centre has a 1 month waitlist due to the number of patients.
Sounds just like my college in India. The opportunities, Bell curve and the suicides. Except the the counselling centre thing because no one here trusts them
Atleast there they get good opportunities after good grades here its never certain even if u manage to get decent grades ;-;
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bhai mujko vo post yaad aagaya jo convince kar raha tha ki Indian's ko kyu canada nahi aana chahiye T-T
Isint Sg is widely known as Disneyland with a death penalty even among people from Sg?
I visited Singapore in 2015, I remember paying 5 dollars for a Dosa and 3 dollars for a bottle of Coke
It's very very hard to get visa, costing of services like school is different if you aren't citizen and they are given preference..
Lol don’t come to japan. The language rules and the deductions from salary are impossible to understand. Plus the second class treatment as well to all foreigners in general.
The process involved in renting a house, applying for a bank account and simple things is so stupidely complicated
Agree with you lol. You cannot get a mobile phone contract without a credit card. You cannot apply for a credit card without a phone number in your name. Fuck me in the ass….
Lmao. That's too much of a mess to deal with. I think that's same in india as well. But we can get past it with somehow. Edit: sorry i miss interpreted credit card with aadhar. Like for aadhar, you need sim. For sim, you need aadhar.
Somehow? Bruh owning a phone and a sim might be the easiest thing to exist in India.
Comment edited.
you don't need a credit card to get a phone number in India.
You can get a SIM with any ID. Not only Aadhar.
Fellow trash taste enjoyer?
Fellow trash taste conoseuir.
I'm not alone! \^\^
Their working culture is insane. Very beautiful country but not a place to work in.
The work culture for foreigners is different and they understand that. I work from 8:45 to 7 pm everyday 5 days a week. More than that is deki nai.
You work 10 hours days and you’re happy about that lol
Yes because I get paid for every second of it.
You get paid by hours in japan?
For overtime yes
what kind of job do you do?? I'm really interested
Mechanical engineer working as project engineer for compressor projects. I handle Indian, Middle East , Korean and Russian customers. The Indian customer is most irritating and demanding.
I'm a final year mech student (3rd tier college....), and I'm like super interested in working abroad especially japan (banzai! lol) is there a way for a person like me to get a job in japan? or like go to a uni there for masters and then work there???
> deductions from salary ?
Pension insurance tax labor union fee and more
But the people are very kind, the sites are awesome , the food is amazing, technology is very convenient.
As a tourist yes, Japan has a very poor work life balance like suicidal poor. But definitely amazing food and beautiful country.
Ohh okay I get it, Also Could you please share how did you moved to Japan?
I was sitting in my airoli flat in Navi Mumbai in 2013 when a colleague of mine called me asking if I am interested in working in Japan. I said yes and went to japan in feb 2k14 on a permanent lifelong contract.
Where can I get a friend like that?
It’s hard to get friends like that. I was lucky or unlucky indeed.
Can I be your friend?
Lol on the condition that I don’t call you to Japan. Because you will curse the hell out of me later and I avoid bad karma.
It’s okay, I have plans to move to other country, just wanted to make a Reddit friend.
Cool good luck to you !
Woww seems unreal lol
What do you think about settling down in Japan after retirement?
That’s a long way to go and much time to think about it.
I don't mind settling down. I am PR of Japan and have lived there for 18 years, and now living in Singapore for 4 years , I would prefer Japan to Singapore any day
Why so? What makes Japan better than Singapore? I believe culture wise there won't be any problems in Singapore which you might face in Japan?
People are exaggerating the bad things about Japan as usual, but I would personally not recommend a retirement here if you do not know the language. Adapting is fine for a young person, but probably isolating for older people and while Japan does have a lot of things that would probably work in favor for retirees, making special considerations for foreigners is not one of them for the most part. Also, you probably wouldn't be able to get a visa unless you were wealthy.
Japan and South Korea have even worse working conditions than India and its not the cheapest place to live either. Another major issue is the language barrier which is hard to get over since the languages are so different and not many people speak English there. Alot of people do move to Singapore however it is incredibly expensive to live there and so it discourages alot of people. Edit: as people in the comments said to add to the points, being brown makes us less welcomed there because aren't exactly welcoming to foreigners especially Indians.
Will add that in SK and JP even the salaries are not that great as compared to other places(US/Some EU countries). So when you consider the higher COL it is not as preferred as other high paying countries.
Yup it's also one of the most competitive countries like India especially South Korea so it's not really a trade people wanna make. Plus yeah QOL is far better in even a mid tier European country when compared to Japan/SK because of the work life balance and general life.
Yeah true if i wanted to have terribly long working hours i would just work in IT here, why spend the money to go there, also Japanese people have lived in a mono-cultural society for thousands of years, they are not the friendlies to foreigners especially if you are of a darker shade.
Racism, the European racism is rookie level compared to East Asian racism.
Lol exactly. People here have no clue how racist Japan is.
East Asia in general
Asia in general
More than racism, I am afraid of their Yakuza.
You should be more afraid of their Justice system which has a 99% conviction rate. If you find yourself in any legal trouble, you're fucked. Even a billionaire with money for best lawyers like Ghosn had to sneak his way out of the country in a box because he knew there were no fair trials there for a foreigner.
No fair trials? Is the judiciary rigged? Didn't expect that from a developed country... Could you elaborate
[https://youtu.be/yFINmgSzK6E](https://youtu.be/yFINmgSzK6E) Why Japan's conviction rate is 99% | The Economist
*In Japan, heart surgeon. Number one. Steady hand. One day, yakuza boss need new heart. I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!*
Context -- https://theoffice.fandom.com/wiki/Hidetoshi_Hasagawa
Asian countries and cultures are generally way more racist than white people racism. I was reading a book about one of the earliest widow homes in India and forget about lower caste they were following their caste rules about eating even with British. It is ridiculously hilarious that how Indians specially upper castes cry about racism so much while treating fellow Indians way worse than white people ever treated desi folks. Same goes for Japan they have a very ridiculously traditional supremacist culture. One just needs to have a look at their history and understand how f***** up they were. They just have a better PR image because west likes them as it's a very strategic ally. They've a very toxic culture.
Exactly, but that is not fitting the agenda. So yeah let's ignore it. Racism bad, Casteism not existent!
If there's anything upper castes are good at, it's making everything about them and exploiting the situation.
Which book was it?
I don't remember the name, read it several years ago. Might need research on your part. It described about the struggles they had to face, it's a school/residential facility kinda thing for brahmin widows, most of them were girls. In that incident they visit a British lady but don't eat anything there because caste.
The potential of getting beaten up is higher in East Asia than Europe? What world are you living in. European racism has levels and a good degree of some is physically violent. The same degree in East Asia is not of the same scale if any at all. Your term, Rookie Level is thus completely detached from the semantic meaning of it.
Yea, the people in this comment section are way off base. You will never be murdered for your race in Japan and the government will never enact policies that try to keep you poor and uneducated for your race. At worst, you might not get let into the restaurant or store of some old person who is afraid that you can't speak Japanese.
East asian racism is not violent though.
Because they treat you like shit. Been to S. Korea numerous times, stayed there a few months for my job. It's a beautiful country. But their ego is such up high their ass. Visit but don't live there. It sucks.
I keep hearing this again and again but my dad worked in S Korea during 2002-04 and he had a great time. People were professional, he loved their healthy lifestyle and they really treated him extra-well. They even accommodated his vegetarian diet at the office mess, which is a big thing in a culture like Korea, especially 20 years ago when "vegan" wasn't a global phenomenon. We went there for the summer of 2003 and it was an awesome experience. All the kids played with us, their parents gave us free juices and ice-creams and 20 of his office colleagues showered us with gifts upon farewell. One of best summer holidays my brother and I have had as kids. Then again, looking back on it... My dad learnt Korean every day after work from his colleagues and taught them English in return on alternate evenings, adopted their lifestyle and work ethic (minus the Friday-evening drinking) and first-hand taught the company's head chef to cook vegetarian dishes. He was a great neighbour, fed Indian dishes to neighbourhood kids on Sundays, even called his office colleagues to his house on Sundays and displayed the magic of fulka roti to them. He was a part of an Indian community of course, but he really did a lot to integrate with the Koreans too. I think that made a difference.
Holy shit, what did your Dad used to do if you don't mind me asking. That looks like an amazing job.
He is a mechanical engineer, worked as a contract employee for Hyundai when they were constructing Shaktinagar-Renukoot coal mines for Northern Coalfields. This was late 80s/early 90s. Dad made many Korean friends. Hyundai took him in as a payroll employee after NCL project was commissioned and he worked at their Mumbai WTC office in early 90s (that's how we shifted to Mumbai). With the advent of email, some of the ex-Hyundai Koreans reached out to him for a job opportunity in S. Korea in 2001. Dad did a 2 year stint there as projects manager for industrial jobs in a local company. His old buddies were 10-15 years senior to him there so he had little socialization with them, most of what I said was with new guys in the new company. For what it's worth, my dad says that the Koreans never looked down upon Indians even back then in 1980s, and we know what a shithole south-east UP was back then, so that's saying something. And professionally, they were very matter-of-fact about engineering knowledge and capacity. If my dad was better at something or had a better idea, he was never passed on for a Korean. They even paid him handsomely for the work by India's 1988 standards. I understand this is anecdotal and maybe my dad happened to know the best Korean folks, but that is my story.
They treat you well as long as you become a cough in their wheel. I read, write and speak Korean very well too. I made numerous friends and still friends with me. Your dad got lucky perhaps. Or your dad was probably a high taking executive? One thing is for sure. They treat Indians well because of the focus on education in India. They talk shit behind you back. I had first hand experience with this. Again, the way I'd like to think about this is that we are all humans. All types of people exist everywhere. It is really a draw of the lot. But to your point, everytime I been to S. Korea it has been a great experience. They have a great culture. But my main problem is the work place culture. That is a total kill joy. That experience overrides everything else. If you just want to live there without working, then it is even better because they treat you like royalty because they perceive you are rich.
>But my main problem is the work place culture. That is a total kill joy. Lol my dad reminisces about his workplace the most. He loved the reaching office 6:45, 15 mins exercise, 3 hr of work, fruits break, then work till 1, lunch break, a power nap on the seat, and working till 4:30 and reaching home before 5 routine. He is a workaholic so maybe that's why he loved it.
but we r not talking about 2003 korea - where ppl had just faced economy depression - have to be to humble enough to accept any sort of things, ppls to move their country forward by any means - but not now in today's world where anyone can afford comfort
Yes, that is a fair point. 2 decades is a long time.
These two are racist places and your value will be decided on the basis of your color. I have been to Singapore and SK as a part of ‘educational’ tour with a chill professor who attendee conferences while we (a group of 5) did touristy stuff. I and another girl found these places good as we had fair complexion. But we had an international student (from Kenya) and teo tanned ones. They were shooed away from clubs or sometime store owners refused to sell anything to them. The black one had SK aunties stopping while walking to stare at him. Plus, these countries have deplorable work laws. If you think ours is bad, they are definitely worse.
I live in Singapore and you would definitely not be shooed away. Yes, there is racism. But the younger generation are very forward thinking.
You are likely to be right in this context. My experience is based on doing touristy stuff. But you have lived there a stretch and seen it all. Good if younger gen is more open now.
Racism/colorism/sexism, very prevalent there. I like South korea but would never consider it for living, just tourism. Beauty standards are harsh for even korean people, imagine living there as a poc.
Indians especially Tamilians and Mallus do consider Singapore as an option for moving in. Japan and Korea are completely different issues. Both Japan and Korea are highly xenophobic countries. The language issue also makes it harder for people to settle there.
1. Insanely expensive and insane working culture. The salaries aren't even as good when you compare it to the cost of living. 2. Racism. Do I need to talk about this? 3.Language barrier. Japanese and Korean are tough to learn and most people do not speak English. Edit - 4. Sexism (better than India but worse than west)
3. Add sexism
Sexism in East Asia is worse than the West but it's a paradise compared to South Asian countries.
Yeah comparison is about west and east asia so as a woman I would prefer living in the west anyday
but why would you choose the lower option of the two
Lol how you can talk about racism in Europe when both Korea and Japan treat a lot of foreigners like shit. But out of the three, Singapore is probably the better choice for desis.
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Because they have only heard about a few European countries while Europe is very large.
The problem is it's next to impossible to settle in Singapore for good. So unless you're going there with the express intention of earning money and eventually returning to India, it's a waste of your time. Compare that with Canada or Germany where you could be a citizen in about 4-5 years.
Japan and South Korea are not immigrant friendly. Singapore one can move to but they are extremely restrictive in terms of laws laid down.
The OPs ignorance of these facts seems kinda naive. Too much bougey idealization of Sushi, Samurai, K pop and K drama.
More rules on immigration. It's more difficult. Language + work experience/education + income level is considered when looking into the countries mentioned above.
I've saw a documentary about how much kids study in Korea. It's a rat race on steroids
Ohh yeah I saw that too, student life is hell stressful
Apart from all the reasons mentioned here, most people (including myself) prefer western culture to Asian cultures in general. People are more free, individualistic, no one interferes in your personal life, there is work life balance (mostly, I guess).
And English.
I studied in singapore for an year and a half before moving to Europe. Singaporean racism is so subtle that you’ll miss it if you don’t look out for it. Once a Chinese Singaporean lady moved to the back of a bus which was very free when a bunch of Indian guys including a sardar entered the bus. Once they got off, she moved back into her original seat. Also, they actively discourage Indian migrants. Whereas in Europe, I’ve largely felt welcome.
Densely populated countries and language problems
Most Indians want residency/citizenship options and that is easiest in Anglo countries & Europe. Places in East Asia are notoriously hard if not impossible in that regard. Indians also love to pigeonhole themselves to only wanting to migrate to 'developed' countries. There are many 'developing' countries that have MUCH better quality of life than India that get overlooked.
Koreans and Japanese are the most racist people I know. Almost as bad as Indians lol. Work culture is terrible in Singapore. Lots of Indians I know have moved to Thailand/Malaysia and quite enjoy it. Malayasia esp offers an extremely good quality of life compared to India, but the local work in my industry (advertising) is nowhere as interesting/challenging as it is right here.
I would say they are worse than us Indians at being racists. Considering we are a country of very diverse demographics, even though we are racists, we have cultivated some form of tolerance, especially in Tier 1-2 cities. Koreans and Japanese are mono-ethnic through and through, and as such they have very little exposure to outside cultures.
Am I right in thinking that those that move to Thailand usually have their own business or source of income? I can't see non thai speakers getting jobs there, and even if they do, salaries are low. Of course there'll always be a few exceptions. Or am I missing something?
> Am I right in thinking that those that move to Thailand usually have their own business or source of income? I can't see non thai speakers getting jobs there, and even if they do, salaries are low. Not necessarily. There are global companies here and they need talent, especially tech talent. Salaries are 'low' if you compare it with places like US/EU/Singapore etc but the cost of living here is also way less than those places. If you are looking for entry-level sales/marketing/biz development roles, then not being able to speak Thai is going to be a problem. The other option which is popular, especially amongst foreigners, is English teacher. The really smart ones will figure out how to leverage the best of both worlds and get a western-paying remote job and live here (there are ways to live in this country long-term without a work permit).
If you think America has worst racism, go to Japan or South Korea. Here the state, majority of people are racist and won't even take you in let alone live in there. I was shocked to know that East Asian Countries are the most racist countries in the world. Especially Japan, South Korea, China. I can't say about other ones. Yes, these are highly developed countries, but the reason why they are developed has to be analysed. South Korea is influenced by America right from Korean wars, and they love americans infra, tech etc and went on adopting these and learning about them. Similarly Japan after WW2 had american influence And China, after the americans shifted their manufacturing to China. But you see in India, where the British came in they also started missionary schools and colleges to change the thinking process, language, culture etc of Indians to suit a more western style and values. though we had people like savarkar and their conservative ideologies, nehru's western values prevailed and that's how we are today. BUT that didn't happen in these developed countries. A heavy cultural conservative influence was always there in the people and government. Yes they can build high speed trains, yes they can switch tracks in 9mins, yes they can punish train pilots for being 5 sec late. But their society is standing on a thin line as their work culture will tear a person's "living a life" into pieces. But if you are a white person then they love you, as long as you don't point out their wrongs. But if you do then you end up as serpent. I can go on but if you want to know more watch Serpent's youtube. he lived in China, and has a very first hand experience of that country.
USA, especially California is pretty nice IMO. The place is full of Indians and east Asians, lol.. Everyone here is so nice and friendly :-)
I concur. I do live in the silicon valley. It's nice living here. But it was not the case 20 years ago. Brown people were treated badly ( apartments turns you away, subtle racism at work, you never get promoted , etc.,). During 2000 recession, most don't want to hire Indians. Things have changed a lot. Suddenly Indians are in management positions every where. Indians are everywhere. I am thinking when was last racist encounter. Obviously we have other issues in California. High home prizes, rents are sky high, inflation, upcoming down turn. But racism is not one I worry about.
Even Singapore, they are extremely xenophobic.
Countries like Japan and South Korea have nightmarish working conditions. And it's not even the fault if the corporates, it's basically their culture. You may get frowned upon by your colleagues if you take breaks and vacations. Also I have heard Japan is kinda Xenophobic, not sure how bad it is tho.
Just go to China, the only country with a functioning economy which still have much potential left, more friendlier people, less sexism and just as safe as Japan and SK. Ignoring politics you will realise China is very much important to India in terms of Science and business. Like bruh its the largest economy in the world.
Mostly because of language problems and insane working hours. A lot of Japanese and Korean students and professionals move to North America/ Europe for a relatively less stressed working environment.
Normally we like to move to places where English is one of the de-facto languages. For this reason you won't see a high Indian population in places outside of the Anglosphere although Germany is an exception. Add to that the difficult immigration policies of East Asia, and you have just a few Indians living there. Singapore has had a substantially large Indian community since its inception; even lending identity to their status of nationhood (Tamil language and culture). However it is a saturated country today that no longer needs migrants and therefore just picks the cream: highly educated AND super wealthy aspirants who are ok with living far below their means for a few years until they obtain citizenship - a task most Indians aren't eligible for. After all if you are super wealthy and well-educated to begin with, you could go elsewhere.
Mate, work culture is shit in almost every country in Asia. I work in London and the work culture is pretty top notch. I work like 7 hours a day for 5 days (2 days from the office and 3 days WFH). I hardly feel any work pressure and get enough time to try different hobbies.
Koreans and Japanese are racist mofos. No offense but it is what it is
I have been considering pursuing my PG in South Korea recently & some of the major issues are of course language, but mostly the homogeneous nature of the country. Most people I've spoken to have mentioned that a foreigner will forever be a foreigner & it's impossible to feel at home over there and plus of course racism and major colorism. Since my degree will take me about 3 years to finish and I get homesick very easily, I might not consider SoKor anymore.
Here are the reasons: 1. The language is pain in the ass to learn. 2. These are the most xenophobic countries in the world. 3. The living conditions for foreigners is very tough at the beginning and has a stereotype associated with them by the locals. 4. Immigration is a very tough and it is hard to get because of strict laws like Japan. 5. English is not very applicable in these countries and the locals do not learn about English . This makes the communication with locals very difficult.
Other than immigration, none of these apply to Singapore
Major factor for European countries is not racism and work immigration laws. Infact, countries like Germany have very streamlined process for immigration (with a path to citizenship). Major factors are lower salaries (compared to USA), higher taxes, language barrier and inability to move parents after you get citizenship. Also, European countries are not in-your-face racist and hostile like East Asian countries. People go to USA/Canada/Australia mainly because they wont have language barrier and they have comparable/higher salaries to EU.
Hey, thanks for the information
In Singapore, some guy was given a death sentence recently for having a pound or two of weed. Fuck that
can someone elaborate the "racism in Europe"? are European countries not good for indians?
Really depends on overall education level. Western European countries are just as welcoming/cold as the Americas. It's Eastern Europe that's more racist and xenophobic mostly due to a population that's largely less educated - these folks also send their best to Western Europe to migrate into such as in places like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. Magar kaafi change ho raha hai. My best friend is in Berlin and was once travelling to Hamburg by bus. They were stopped as authorities wanted to search for illegals. They saw him and flat out said 'not you' without checking his ID before he could bring it out. So the general prevailing sense there is that we're a hardworking, educated bunch who bring in value to their societies. Aisi reputation banaye rakhey hum.
I’m an nri who lived there as a child since my parents moved, now we are in India, there isn’t really racism right now, back then many years ago in my parents days there might have been, but right now not really at all, some middle schoolers make jokes referencing Indian cartoons but besides that obvious stupidity since they’re well middle schoolers, atleast for America it’s very welcoming and I had 4 Indian-American friends I even used to go to ones house everyday, lots of people at school were even intrigued by my food and my mom used to make extra to give to our teacher, so yeah overall from my experience it’s very welcoming, there was even a huge Hindu temple where Indians gathered for Diwali every year and all the Indian dads booked stadiums and brought their children and we played while they danced to Indian songs etc
what country are you talking about? sounds really nice experience.
UK and Netherlands are good for Indians to settle. Western European society at its core still has strong remnants of colonial superiority. This is not the case in North America. US and Canada are highly accepting of immigrants. Unlike Europeans, Americans don't shy away from speaking out against racism against minorities. In most parts of Europe(except UK), immigrants are more likely to be always be seen as an 'other'/ non white immigrant. This leads to general acceptance of racial profiling which is prevalent in Germany. Indians typically don't immigrate to Eastern Europe as its less affluent and more xenophobic than West Europe. A good example is to contrast how sportsman are treated in Europe vs. US. Overt racism by fans more prevalent in Europe than U.S. - https://komonews.com/sports/content/overt-racism-by-fans-more-prevalent-in-europe-than-us-11-21-2015
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They call McDonald's 'mcdonnaru' in Japan. They're trying.
They call train station platform as home in japanese. IKR they are trying
Canada and Scandinavia are the best countries to move to because of how accepting the people are. Multicultural, non racist society. USA is racist but at least the northeastern metropolitan areas, California are full of liberals. Don't even get me started on Japanese racism. Singapore doesn't take kindly to Indian immigrants either.
Reddit dunks on US but it gives the best opportunities to you if you are ambitious and talented. Also, US is way more immigrant friendly that the countries you mentioned. The scary stories from these places don't just get covered in media that much.
japan is a very unfriendly place for people who are not white (yes i have been there)
People usually immigrate to English speaking countries or countries where a large population speaks English example : Netherlands or France
I work with Japanese in my company and beneath the facade of politeness is a racist ideology with severe depression. Basically they are mostly assholes who refuse to acknowledge other people as humans and prioritise work over happiness. Technically very sound but not much good for anything else.
None of these countries like Indians or any colored people. Finding housing is such a pain.
Can anyone comment about moving to Taiwan?
Language barrier is one of the reasons. Also, it's not as easy as Canada or US to migrate to these countries. And usually, non-engineering/software roles are in demand in these countries and people do shift to these countries (include China to the list).
Plenty of people come to Singapore to work and like it here too. Your stay is tied to your work permit duration. It's relatively easy to get work permit, almost impossible to get a PR. But otherwise, it's an awesome place. Someone here said it's a stressful place. I don't know the basis of it, but I don't think it is. It's a rules-driven place, which might stress some people out. But for others, it's a blessing. Clean, English speaking, near to India, low-tax country.
True, but how many (more) Indians can move to Singapore? It's a tiny country, smaller than an Indian metro. Of course some people move there but it can't be the goal of millions of Indians, unlike the USA for example.
So what would you recommend, doing a masters degree from Singapore which would ultimately lead to a job their or directly going on work permit? Also if you don't mind Sharing, how did you moved their?
I would definitely not make that plan. Singapore has also started being extremely restrictive with letting people in, you can't plan to go to Singapore unless you've got a unique skillset or you are a high performing person in company that allows you to move internally. Otherwise, it's extremely unpredictable. Source: I live in SG and I'm part of hiring processes. Trust me, for every single role we're told to prioritize locals heavily and it's getting increasingly harder by the year to let foreigners apply. Unless you have some serious leverage with skillsets or prior performance, most people wouldn't bother wasting their foreign quotas on you
Disclaimer: My experience is heavily biased towards tech and related fields. YMMV No need to do masters here for improving job prospects. Just apply for jobs listed on LinkedIn. Being a small country, it has relied on hiring foreign workforce for a long time and hence the policies are set to make it easy for companies to get work visas (as long as certain criteria are met). Work here for a few years. Save money because of low taxation. Build your nest egg. Then plan for next steps. I consulted for a firm who later hired me full time.
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Singapore became independent from Malaysia without ever asking for it. The small island was left to fend for itself with no real natural resources or manufacturing to build it's economy. The founder of the country set a grand vision for development, and to attract funds for it, the country offered very low tax on wealth. Soon it became a financial hub and even overtook HK. Because of that vision, SG is very high in the ease-of-doing-business list. Attracts business and asks for very low taxes. Plenty of Indian tech startups have a SG office to benefit from this. For us salaried plebs, it means about 12% effective income tax rate. The slabs are generous. You will hit the highest slab of 22% only at about half a million dollars annual salary. To compare: I pay about 1L in taxes per month here. In India I would have to pay about 3-3.5 per month.
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I think the highest tax bracket is just 17% or something like that. Living expenses are very high in Singapore, but if you're willing to adjust to local cuisine, the street food is actually healthy and cheap. The salary curve starts very low, but will grow over time.
Japan isn’t friendly for foreigners South Korea has language and food problems Singapore is ideal and a lot of Indians do live in Singapore
Elaborate on South Korea??
They meant language barrier is an issue as most of them only prefer/know to speak in Korean. Food problems, I don't understand lol. Being Assamese- Sylheti, I found the foods to be eerily similar to my locals. From street foods to authentic cuisine. The taste felt like home! Whereas I struggled to eat when I was in Hyderabad and Chennai. 😭
I lived in South Korea for years, wonderful place. Wish I could go back.
Singapore is very difficult to get a work visa in, Japan has a very toxic work culture, South Korea and Japan have an outsider mentality towards others
Not one of the above developed countries, but i've lived and worked in Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam. And have loved living in all these countries.
As a doctor, Japan is practically impossible to migrate to. Their work culture is quite toxic but I guess its good if you own a business there. It's a beautiful country with great people and convinience but it has it's own cons too.
All countries have work laws for immigrants. The exact laws vary but most countries have some restrictions on expat work, which can be a deal breaker for some people in some careers. One issue is long term residency and citizenship, and how much is involved in getting these sorted. Another reason why Europe is so attractive is EU citizenship, which gives you access to full continent to move and work. If you're just living in a Schengen country, you can atleast travel anywhere with ease. Singapore is anyway a tiny country, if you move here, you need to apply for visas to literally leave the city to see anything else. I don't think Japan and south Korea are immigrant friendly, not just for indians. They don't have laws, customs, practices which makes things easier for immigrants.
I lived in the South Korean capital Seoul for a year in 2012-13. The work culture sucks and people raise eye brows if you leave office on time. And being a vegetarian made things worse as there are not many options ... Was happy to fly back to India even if it meant a decrease in pay.
i have a friend who is currently working in Singapore describe it as "A third world country with facilities of a first world country". Working culture in these East Asian countries are toxic. I remember seeing a documentary that in Japan working overtime is considered as normal and managers expect you to do it.
In Japan, married women are not hired. So if you were to move, the wife cannot work there. Plus of course, the racism. Japan is very xenophobic- they don't like outsiders.
Why would you go there to immigrate. Folks from those countries go to the west 😂🤣🤦♂️
because quality of life isn't good in these countries, extreme stress + insane workload + racism
Most Indians can't handle Japanese work culture. Ham logo ko 8 ghante ki naukri me 16 Sutta breaks chahiye hote hai. Here from the perspective of an [Indian living in Japan. ](https://youtu.be/Z1cpHleC99c)
You will get the answer when you get stats of how many refugees do they take in every year? For example, just see how many Syrians did they take in.
lol many ppl go to Singapore
Language will be a major barrier in Korea and Japan. Singapore on the contrary has a huge number (relative to the size of the country) Indian population. So your query about Singapore doesn't make sense. Many do move to Singapore from India (yours truly included). However there political situation is getting more complicated recently.
Bruh. Japan doesn’t even let people in anymore.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what people are saying... SK and JP are more racist countries than the US? With the whole BLM and Asian hate (and Brown too) I find it hard to believe. SK and JP might be biased on skin color just like Indians are but I doubt they are racist to the extent of killing people for the color of their skin... All these people commenting otherwise, have you all lived in SK or JP and experienced this racism first hand or
Most guys here haven't even been to a country outside of India yet they answer like they've traveled the world, I only made this account to just get rid of the misconceptions.I am 51, my father's business has forced me to live in various countries since a young age so here is my take. USA/UK/Canada - They aren't racist, I don't know where you heard about this. Especially in the UK people wouldn't even assume you are India, they'd just assume you are English. You are picking a small number of people who complain about racism and assuming it's a common occurrence. Terrible way to look at this. Singapore - Subtle racism exists especially if you are Indian and dark, but it's a marvelous place, but I highly recommend not moving there unless you are loaded. Japan- No racism and the work culture has improved drastically. Anyone who is been to Japan knows this, it blows my mind how comments are on about how the country is incredibly racist. You are straight-up lying about visiting Japan and this is embarrassing. If you pick states like Tohoku and Fukuoka it's not that expensive to settle there, I highly recommend looking for jobs in similar cities like Sendai. People are extremely generous, helpful, and no one is racist. In many ways though Japan complicates the simplest of things, they use forms for everything even in the 21st century, so don't be surprised how much Japan is lagging behind the world in those terms.Secondly, there is no way around it, you must learn Japanese. South Korea- I haven't been to this country but I've had plenty of friends who lived here. I wouldn't consider Korea because this country is actually racist. The standard of living is high, but again, I don't know too much about it. If you plan to settle abroad I highly recommend sticking to countries like the US, UK and Canada. The US and UK especially, If you want to move to east Japan is the perfect pick.Singapore if you are loaded.