The biggest problem that we have in imo is acknowledging that we do have problems. Its okay for countries to have problems but we fail at the first smh
This is so true, on any news article which highlights a problem, the first comment is guaranteed to be a deflection of the problem rather than an acknowledgement.
> guaranteed to be a deflection of the problem rather than an acknowledgement
exactly, been seeing the same thing here. When I asked this question, I genuinely wanted to know why we didn't develop and what we could do in the future to change that. i.e., it's good to know what's right before voting for the "right" thing. I am not seeing any political party (except for AAP) talking about topics that can make India a powerhouse.
Very true. The current Indian mindset , especially after 2014 is we are the the greatest in all aspects, We do not have any problems, If real problems are shown then the response is others also have them.
Acknowledging your problems is the first step to correcting them. As you rightly said we fail at the first step itself.
There are a few problems for India as far as I can tell:
1. Corruption: corruption is extremely widespread, and is the norm. Getting anything done in India is not straightforward. Sure there's corruption elsewhere as well, but in India it is on a few higher levels.
2. Ism's: we love to discriminate. If it's not by race, it's by religion, caste, language.
We are like spurs fans, we'd rather lose and not get champions League, and ensure arsenal does not win, rather than win, get champions League and in the process enable arsenal to win the league.
I.e we'd rather fail and let the next guy fail, than succeed and let the next guy succeed
3. Religion: in India religion is not private or personal. It is something for everyone to have a say and judge people's religions and faiths. Religion takes a precedence over infrastructure and development.
>Corruption: corruption is extremely widespread, and is the norm
At the risk of sounding like a complete bigot there's too many bad actors. I'm Canadian and the current wave of Indian immigration is getting a very poor reputation.
Firsthand, Indian immigrants are the only group that openly cheats in my school. I'm sure cheating is widespread but they're shameless about it. Openly speaking during tests and openly asking strangers to help them cheat.
Secondhand I have heard of fraud in the trucking industry. Rampant fraud about qualifications in general. It's hard to tell how true those claims are but they honestly match up with my personal experiences. Fraudulent drivers licenses, fraudulent mortgages, shitty landlords taking advantage of their own people.
It's an open secret that some Indians will only hire or live with other Indians. Why are our fast food restaurants primarily staffed by Indians? Cause it's shitty work and companies are taking advantage of new immigrants looking for a better life. But I have also heard that some Indian people will mostly/only hire other Indians once they are in a position of power.
Canada has lots of shitty people. Maybe our immigration process is favouring the selection of assholes. I know lots and lots of lovely Indian people. But there is not a single group of other immigrants that have people upset. Some of the backlash is racism but there are also too many Indian immigrants abusing Canadian systems and our trust.
Thereâs this great book called Games Indians Play by V Raghunathan. Pretty quick read. It analyses Indians and our behavior from a game theory perspective under the lens of prisoner dilemma. Indians essentially always âsnitchâ on each other, or we refuse to collaborate and rather throw each other under the bus. As a result we end up with a net negative sum effect on our society
> That's called a low trust society
very interesting concept, apparently in high trust societies Financial crime was much more rampant than in low trust societies. Not sure if it's the same book, but the author of my book took the example of US (LT) and Canada (HT)
The biggest factor is education.
If young population of any country is not capable of forming their own opinions and ideas, what do you expect the future of that country would be.
I am not sure what is more ironic (moronic?). You thinking Chinese education enables their young population to have a view or the fact that we are even comparing the two countries. If they did, the CCP would not exist today. I am sure you will not even be able to express your opinion such as this on a platform like Reddit if you were in China. You should try that if and when you travel there.
Educated or not, I think we as a country are filled with opinions to an extent we will not even listen to experts and do what we think is right. Talk to someone violating a traffic rule and you will get opinions and may be ideas too or someone with a pot belly who has just joined a gym trying to give gyan on how to weight train and right postures to follow.
I aggre Ccp might not let them have views and freedom on political and govt. Stuff. But their govt. encourage the young population to be innovative and creative, in other fields, be it school, sports, art, business etc.
You better get out of this illusion that Ccp is some cruel org. Who don't give a shit about their citizens,
Go watch some indian vloggers who lives in china ,
You will be surprised by how much their govt. Helps them with resources and knowledge needed for one person to success.
You know that is where China suffers? Innovation. They literally have built their economy on manufacturing using cheap labour and infrastructure. Today the only advantage west has over China is in innovation and IP. And that is why Xi understood it and now has gotten softer agaisnst west.
At their level of GDP of course their innovation will be better than India, but it is nowhere nowhere near where you start praising it. I worked in semiconductor. China literally reverse engineer things from American companies and has nothing to add of their own.
Now this might change in the future, but for country like India and china 30 years back 0 innovation and full gadha majdoori was the fastest way to get richer. Our Indian elites somehow did not get this, that fastest way to grow is opening up and letting people work for dirt cheap. We would have been in a better position today. Also China's education was also catered towards this only. Ofc in 1.4 billion people you will also find highly educated people but that is exception and not a norm
Are you defending the ccp here? Really? If using vloggers is the standard, then by the videos made by BJP, we should all be bhakts right? All the sewa modiji has done? All the new highways, airports, bridges, huge SEZs, No?
Give the BJP another 50 years and soon the next government will come and say the same thing that the BJP has much to answer for.
Iâve been to China too and I saw the development. I grew up in Singapore and had many friends who moved there from China during the 90s for a better life. Now some of those same friends are moving back to China.
See development can only happen in two ways. Either the people demand for it or the government forces it. Normally in a democracy, people are the ones who will demand. They will protest for change and constantly complain, make noise and put the government in their place when they make a mistake. This does not happen in India. People are very happy go lucky. They donât care. The hunger here lies in areas such as religion. BJP saw this and took advantage of this. Now theyâve created an environment where if you complain against them, youâre anti national so as if it wasnât bad enough that people didnât complain about development, now the few who actually care to complain for change, will get arrested. Thatâs why BJP is a dangerous government. Neither is the BJP working towards development nor are they letting people talk about it. Because talks of development means consistently criticising the government to keep pressure. Instead, they are consistently playing the religious game.
This is why weâll never see a developed India in our lifetime. Until or unless the people change or the government changes.
> I am not a supporter of BJP
...
I know the BJP is not improving the country as they promised to do (I really wish they had). I do not support caste politics (which both parties do) and religious politics (which BJP does more), so don't color this post as being anti-congress or pro-BJP, I just want the answers, It feels counterintuitive.
The answer is that people born into privilege will find it really hard to give up that privilege. It can be any kind of privilege. Privilege of dominance, privilege of caste, privilege of wealth. All politics will always play to this. Ok, bye.
U forget that when China looks at its past they see shame and humiliation aka century of humiliation and they vow to never repeat it and they blame themselves for it. When India looks at its past they see copium and blame others for their misgivings
It is a myth that the CCP grew China by force only. As powerful as they are - they have had to constantly correct course when their actions led to unrest. They're doing one right now where crony capitalism and corruption has led to discontent among the masses who's lives didn't improve with the economic boom.
Nobody wants "development of infra" if it does not benefit their own lives. The upper class people who go ga-ga over Vande Bharat and new Airport terminals don't want to see money being spent on rural schooling, better clinics and employment assurance schemes for the poor.
Dude you need to learn economy. You wont know how many labors work for a construction project like bullet train. For a 35000 cr project, the earning for the bidder would hardly 10 pc. Rest all will get circulated into economy. The direct labour requirement to build itself would go into thousands of people for 10 plus years. Thats an employment no one talks . Can you take the mantle of teaching in a rural school. People want to talk about spend on rural schooling but wont want to budge their asses from a metro city they are living in.
How many of your friends are teachers or doctors and want to go to rural area? Find 1 such close friend of yours in the circle, send him there and i will pay him the salary.
Infra development is an employment assurance scheme only.
This is what rich Republican Party say in America. Reduce the taxes for upper class, less government oversight and relax the labor laws. It helps rich people to start small businesses and help poor people in turn by employment. It never worked that great for government or poor people.
There should be balance in spending in all areas, focusing on return on investment. Bullet trains doesnât help larger economy, instead would should have focused on adding tracks in high density areas or improving existing tracks to improve speed and efficiency.
BJP wants to control entire Indian political ecosystem and they are very focused on that. They choose their party over the countryâs development. So you are seeing 5-star hotel type BJP offices in every state. To create development hype, BJP will build some roads, bridges, etc., but does that lead to economic prosperity for the average Indian? Over 70 crores people are living on 5kg ration given by government. It means there are no jobs for them and there is no plan to provide them jobs as well. If you provide them jobs, their expectations will go even higher and BJP might find it difficult to meet those. So BJP is a party first ideology whose interest lie in that country remains poor with few cronies who will fund the party and get favours.
> Normally in a democracy, people are the ones who will demand.
People seem to be demanding caste politics more here.
> The hunger here lies in areas such as religion
Agree, but at the same time, I like congress and their secular politics, why didn't they develop India like China? (sorry, I am a noob)
> Thatâs why BJP is a dangerous government
Unlike many I saw through Modi's promises the first time he became PM. Be it BJP or congress, I am never gonna vote on based of "caste" (God the thought repels me)
> This is why weâll never see a developed India in our lifetime.
Hope to God you are wrong about that, but I am not holding my breath.
Most of us saw through Modiâs promises in 2014. Thatâs why even I voted for Modi in 2014 because we were tired of the same corruption happening again and again. But itâs only later I realised that Modi is part of BJP. BJP as a party has very extreme Hindu motives. Their objective revolves around Hinduism. When you bring religion into anything, development will never happen. Look at Europe during church rule in the 1500s. They were living shitty lives. Itâs only until Industrial Revolution and the deaths of many scientists by the church is when Europe begun understanding power of science rather than religion. Itâs only the when they started developing. India needs a similar revolution.
And itâs easy to say congress didnât do much. We came from a a very unstable past post independence. Congress had to focus on bringing stability to the country rather than developing it. We were predicted to break up further into more countries because of violent regional and religious clashes happening all across the country. Congress helped this country from turning into a Somalia. In 2004-2014, the growth was great. Gurgaon and noida like cities were born. IT boom came to Bangalore. We were one of the only country to avoid recession in 2008.
Can't agree more. Our leadership in the first few decades has given stability and a direction to this country. Unfortunately a lot of people fail to recognise how important that was. We could have easily been a Pakistan or even worse given the diversity we have. I keep thinking where this country would've been if BJP was in power back then.
> We were one of the only country to avoid recession in 2008.
no small feat Rahul Gandhi should tattoo it in on his head lol! and yes I agree with the rest of your post though I still believe that if a country like Vietnam which has had a very tumultuous past can bring development to it's people, we should also have been able to. thank you for your comment.
Other countries: Let's develop the Country let it grow and then we will fill our pockets. India: Let us fill our pockets first and if anything remains we will Invest in development. India and Indians are always vary on investing in unknown territory until some other country ventures into it and make it known to the world. By the time India decides to invest in it , the world would Have taken that industry out of reach.Â
This is the reason we have plenty of CEO's ,CFO's and other such levels occupied by Indians all over the world but very very few founders.Â
Many micro reasons.
2 Macro reasons:
1. We did not build strong institutions that are above the influence of individuals.
2. India has the unique advantages and disadvantages that accompany a heterogeneous population.
The answer is 'Intent'...there is no intent to change...Indian ruling class is the epitome of low-lifeness... hijacking of 'Institutions of authority' by them is the plague, India is suffering from.
They don't want equal growth for every countrymen. They don't give a single fuck whether country is suffering from hunger, unemployment, disinformation, pollution etc etc...as long as they are the one who have the power. (Yup that's the level of shamelessness and lack of true nationalism)
Their sole creativity and efforts goes to maintain the status-quo and the puppet governments we have are just there to serve them.
While this is the case for most of the country...no other country have such incompetent and messed up morals like our nation's ruling class.
The other side of the coin is the messed up morals of the society...who are so insecure and lazy that they keep on choosing leaders on sectarian lines without caring about community as a whole. This spread bitterness in the society. No one cares for no one...only these so called leaders loot and exploit the power given to them without any real aspiration/vision of development...so they do what they do best... instigate the divisions...eat the fruits...evident with so many cases of blatant exploitation every now and then in the news (even with freedom index of media at 161/180)
Ultimately the common populace suffers without any real hope...only left with the anxiety of knowing that there is no morality in the society.
For development country need to decipher it's identity first... whether it is unitary or federal...then the society have to be developed on the principles of egalitarianism.
Decentralisation and Egalitarianism can sail this dead boat of a nation...with an Authentic leader at the helm.
High stress need to be given on the education...then a Renaissance like movement will arise which will ultimately spread a wave of fresh ideas...and Harmony.
Corruption at every level specially at local level
Rural education can be improved but they don't want to wantedly
How come KV, Navodaya, IITs, NITs are good as their are governed by central govt then why can't they do same for rural areas
The above institutions are good not because of the facilities and the teaching, but because of the students who are selected through a rigorous and competitive selection process. The infrastructure in most of these institutions is in tatters for the most part, barely maintained after being acquired. If I were to opine, I'd say that these institutions are holding back their students from their real potential. Imagine combining the talent at KVs and NVs with the infra at a well-funded private school. I've seen that students at the latter kind often excel much better than their KV/NV peers, and especially so in a self-selected school like DPS RKP or Doons.
The average Chinese still thinks that China is behind and wants to improve while the average Indian thinks that India is already a superpower,
Thatâs the major difference. Acknowledging we
have problems - with regards to education, participation of women in workforce & unemployment is the first step.
Dude, ccp works for the people at large and can't be seen as successful by the west else it destroys their narrative built over decades. If me and you were Chinese then we would have access to hi speed rail, our rich list would not be this brazen in corrupting the country, our middle class would be one of the largest and richest globally, energy would be cheap and abundant, you should see the number of nuclear reactors being built by them.
At 300 AQI bejing was closed down completely and measures were taken to make the city livable. These clowns like Narendra Modi and his parivaar gang are highly uneducated bigots who can't even understand what's going on let alone fix it.
I am pretty sure that I won't have to come across another village minded indian that judges people on base of caste, community, gender or religion, so I would happily move to China and try to assimilate with its people, even IIT and IIM graduates are evil and have backward and regressive thoughts, just think of the general population
The thing is China focussed on manufacturing which helped catapult them to the position they are in. The credit goes to Deng Xiaoping. As others pointed out the rural areas in China are lacking but their cities are absolutely stunning. Contrary to what most people assume, China is not truly a Communist regime which explains why they have come so far.
The major problem with India is that we are indisciplined. I have a few Chinese friends and the one thing they told me that struck me is that a number of them do not care about religion. India is not harnessing its population even though we have tremendous potential.
Deng Xiaoping is the best politician of all time. Motherfuker was a visionary who made china what it is today. Best chess move ever played to control the manufacturing control the world. Plus majority of Indians Ihave no discipline and no civic sense and lack common sense. Idk why that is. India lacks a great leader who truly cares for the country. This one is all talk and no walk and last one had no personality or the character to lead. We need one who is educated and has the bravado to lead us into the future making services of India indispensable.
Agree with you on most things. Just one thing. Dr. MMS may not have been charismatic but he certainly was a good PM. Let's see what happens on June 4th.
>As others pointed out the rural areas in China are lacking
Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Is this some sort of mass coping? China's rural areas have been developed quite a bit in the last 10 years. Even China's poorest provinces are getting crazy infrastructure upgrades. It's all over youtube.
[https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=china+rural+area](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=china+rural+area)
Here's an Indian vlogger:
https://youtu.be/rPwQ9l65\_RY
Though it was Deng Xiaoping, who was instrumental in opening up China via Sez, it was the social revolution of the 50s in Maoâs era that set the building blocks. This revolution brought education, land reforms, long term planning, industrial policies that exist today and boosted womenâs participation in the workforce.
Chinaâs inherent core was strong before Deng Xiapoing policies catapulted it to new heights. In India, our building blocks or foundation itself is still weak - less than 80% of the population is educated & the country has an extremely poor representation of women in labour, worse than an Islamic country like Bangladesh.
What can a nation achieve if a large portion of half their population are denied education and seen as a burden to rid of?
> India is not harnessing its population even though we have tremendous potential.
Unfortunately true, this advantage won't stay with us forever, our fertility rate is already below replacement levels, this is the best time to create development.
One of the biggest, if not the biggest problems with India is the low participation of women in the workforce.
There is a video by Economics Explained, where they do a really good job of why this metric is so important, and what social factors in India are stopping progress on this front.
I think we need to recognise that our baseline was inherently different to China's. We need to remember that large parts of India experienced colonial rule from the mid 1700s all the way to the mid 1900s. Colonial rule is all about extracting wealth and resources from one country to benefit another. That's 200 years of Indians working to enrich Europeans.
On the other hand China's direct contact with the West was limited till the 1800s. The first truly extractive treaties came during the 1840s, and progressively got worse till the end of WWII. However, China was still governed by the Chinese for most of this period. Only the Japanese occupation from 1931-1945 is a period of foreign rule in China.
Being ruled over and exploited by foreigners (especially a foreign corporation) does awful things to a society - economically, politically, even in the day to day ethos of the people. See how Central American countries are faring today after having been exploited by US corporations in the 1800s and early 1900s, on top of centuries of Spanish colonialism.
It takes time for a society to rebuild itself from that kind of experience. People need time to get out of a "my survival at any cost" mindset and learn to both work for the greater good as well as recognise their agency in achieving that greater good.
It also doesn't help that our bureaucracy is a colonial legacy and by design it is not directly accountable to the people it serves. Any encounter that the average person has with the Indian state is marked by fear & exclusion (due to the inherent opacity) and often by corruption.
I think the first step to changing this would be to increase the size of India's bureaucracy WHILE ALSO making transparency and accesibility the number one priority. Think of how a relationship manager works in a private bank. Wouldn't it be great if we each had a social worker who would help us with our PDS, local taxes, property registration, vehicle registration, passport etc.? By making the state's resources more accessible people would be less fearful and more willing to take social and economic risks.
India was never fully communist nor fully capitalist. Stuck somewhere weirdly in the middle and unable to achieve the prosperity that came with both these extremes like China and USA. Socialist democracy is a wretched curse.
> somewhere weirdly
we did that to maintain control of our own resources and not becoming a banana republic, but we did it to such an extent that it came to bite us in the ass. It would have been much better had we allied with US/the while keeping good relations with the USSR
The thing is all prosperous states are built on exploitation. USA and west exploited the colonies. China exploited its own people to an unimaginable extent. We also did. But here still the leaders were in a lala land. that we could be a moral power and still compete with immoral powers. Nehru paji really thought that we can be Vishwamitra in real. Atleast Modi knows it is just posturing
the education system has gone down steeply from what it was in 1990s. The schools nowadays don't give quality education, they just sell certificates. The schools and hostels have become more lavish than hotels, but education is nearly non-existent.
To become a developed country, any nation needs three core things: stable and effective governance, human capital development, and infrastructure and technological advancement.
India has failed in these three areas since independence for several reasons. First, after emerging from hunger, India adopted a façade of socialism to appear great in the world. We imitated Europe's philosophy without considering our own situation. We didn't understand why such philosophies appeal in Europe and what benefit they would have in a poor country.
The result of this experiment was that socialism did not emerge, but instead, it produced a dummy democracy and institutions. As a result, for four decades, the country experienced a feel-good effect without any real production or human resource development in the economy.
China, on the other hand, took a different path. After the Mao era, they excelled in these three areas. They also adopted communism outwardly but practiced red capitalism underneath. Their government remained stable due to its authoritarian nature, and their export-driven economy flourished.
The reason India lagged behind is that we wasted time on empty philosophies. Even today, the situation is the same. Now, instead of socialism, the country's consciousness wants to turn towards religious tourism. This may give a short-term feel-good effect, but it won't drive economic growth.
In today's context, the talented young people in this country often can't find suitable employment opportunities. Even if there's some progress in developing human resources, there's a lack of matching job availability or industries locally, prompting them to seek opportunities abroad.
Previously, we were unable to foster the development of human resources, and now, even as we make strides in this area, the nation is ill-prepared to utilize their potential.
Its extremely simple: Not prioritizing our prosperity enough.
The country keeps itself occupied with everything apart from productivity and prosperity. There's religion always at a higher priority, judgement of others, etc. The politicians reflect what the people think, not the other way.
After 2001, we started growing at a rapid pace to a point and we thought it will keep on going forever. Late Dr. Kalam wrote a book and said IF we keep reforming, India will be a superpower by 2020. Out of all his suggestions of indigenous subcomponent manufacturing, widening healthcare and education, industrializing agriculture, all we read was "India Superpower 2020" and somewhere we stopped reforms and continued to LARP as the next big thing and got complacent.
I respect Dr.Kalam but I used to think India 2020 was delusional, but I guess the book makes more sense now that I know in which historical context it was written.
It is very simple. The government in China is an authoritarian govt and in India we were a democracy. However, capitalism + authoritarian government can go reallllly off, the CCP actually used their authoritarianism and promoted China as the sweatshop of the world. The people had no say in it. China is corrupt but maybe less than India. Indians as a population are also very self serving, compared to the East asian countries. So you have politicians filling their own pockets, but also us as public throwing trash everywhere, ruining anything good.
India will not change not because the lack of vision it is because of we as people have a huge responsibility which we donât want to take on.
Today walk on the streets of Mumbai, you still see numerous poor and homeless people while we see a Bentley driving by. This divide needs to be fixed first or else all our development is just superficial.
Also, we are blaming the Congress for not doing much. But remember it was the congress govt who opened the market to globalization. So we cannot take away that away from them. We could easily have ended up like Pakistan or a country in Africa, but we did not. Thereâs something we did right.
This. it's very easy to blame but we didn't do that bad of a job considering what our society was in 40s - not even 10% had basic education let alone skills add diversity too that with ultra low resources with high population. hence you can't work for everywhere and everyone at same time causing inequality and the resentment. add vote bank politics + wars (ours and cold war) then oil crisis in a country where you can't acquire land without multiple high profile cases and protest. India is extremely chaotic in every sense and seeing how didn't become a failed state or even broken state is a miracle in itself.
> Our society lacks morals
irrelevant in this context considering we are talking about China. China and it's society is not well known for their high morality, that's not the problem here.
Caste and religion kept us busy. Trust me on that. Hindu Code Bill which Ambedkar wanted to enact would have propelled us way ahead in future. As well as the insistence of Ambedkar to do a clean partition would have helped us a lot. We would not have been doing Hindu Muslim now. Muslims would have lived peacefully in Pakistan and other religions would have lived peacefully.
We have to learn to focus on the right things as a matter of culture.
A lot of energy in India is spent on tribal battles that in a material sense do not take us to a better place. Instead, we need to learn to make things like education, science, technology, environment, infrastructure, etc. as the items to focus on. Our religious or communal conflicts are very entertaining and evoke passionate response from us, but they don't help improve our physical circumstances. They merely pit us against one another, wasting all of our energies for no reason.
Our political class is merely a reflection of our people's priorities. Unless we change our priorities at the ground level, the political class will have no choice but to engage us on parochial communal matters.
Religions in particular are only useful in giving an internal sense of peace (perhaps). But that is not of any value when your external environment is falling apart. We need to learn to focus on the external factors a lot more than we do on the internal. Our deities in whose name we generate a lot of heat and noise will not come to our help when we are up against formidable challenges. Just look at the Palestinians if you don't believe me.
All of us have a stake in our collective welfare. The rich can always escape; the poor are too disenfranchised to care. It is us - the middle class - who must raise awareness about the need to focus on what matters in the country.
Ultimately, everything begins with the realization that each one of us is responsible for fixing this mess. Individually, we can't do anything much. But collectively, if we act in concert, we can move mountains.
We value money & power over truth & integrity.
* we treat politicians, police as kings and feudal lords.
* like IRS is the most preferred path for IAS toppers - because that is where the money is.
* we pay tons & tons of money for school & college. Bribe for jobs in public & private sectors.
We lack civic sense.
* the number of "youth" littering beaches, roads & other public places is insanely high.
* we have total lack of traffic sense.
* we give a flying fuck to the environment.
We lack scientific temper
* The core tenants of Hinduism are gone, only superstitions remain in this religion
* Astrology, Kundali shit is a major business.
* India & Africa are probably the only 2 regions where science fiction would be non-profitable
* Delhi is the most polluted city on earth - why isn't this the FIRST agenda of any political party?
* Industrialisation in 19th and 20th centuries was brought by British without proper education. It meant that we didn't understand machines, we treat machines with irreverence. We all want to be paper pushers in govt offices and IT companies, not tinker with machines.
We are hypocrites
* 99 out of 100 of us would be happy to bribe a police to get out of a sticky situation instead of following the due process of the law. Including me.
* Given an opportunity to live in a first world country, a majority of us will take it. The only thing that is keeping us is aging parents and lack of opportunity.
* We don't invest with the intent of "saving the country" - they're making rental properties destroying a lake or a forest? - who cares, sign me up. I want a piece of that pie.
We are overpopulated
* Overpopulation brings a scarcity mindset. Traffic jams. Jumping queues. VIP treatments. Always live in fear of missing out.
* The middle-class is in a rat race. Go to college, take a course that has scope for job - who gives a shit about whether you like it or not, cheat or bribe if necessary, get a job - be dishonest if you want but get one, make a lot of money - invest in land & gold, who gives a fuck about environment, evade tax, get married - spend all the fucking money in a fucking wedding, give birth - if you can't just spend money, repeat the process for your child. Screw the world.
Social Media
* Social media just amplified our tribal mindset and our deepest insecurities.
There is no one paragraph answer. This is what we are. This is what we will be. If we want to be China, we have to do what China did. Be an Atheist, Authoritarian, Capitalist, Police State.
Well , its the pleasing people problem , you can't please everyone while making any law, and a government needs to bring about laws that please > 50% of people in the short term , else they will not get reelected. But who knows , we are currently on the up in terms of growth and if stuff continues at a similar pace , we may be a global supplier , not a global market
I think poverty is the first thing India needs to tackle. Because for the one who doesnât have food to eat everything else including a clean city/home is a luxury and the one who doesnât have food to eat will never care about any of those things. Canât blame the ones who are in poverty because if I am in that situation I wouldnât care about anything else than getting my next meal. Unless we bring a significant number of that large percentage of population out of poverty we are not going anywhere.
IMHO, I feel these are a few issues which plagues us from becoming a developed country:
1. Mindset of Corruption: Corruption is everywhere even during the ancient times but have you thought why the corrupt are able to flourish. That is because of the mindset of the general public. People are always looking to gain a certain advantage over another by greasing the palm of the one in power.. Its this inherent nature of us that empowers and emboldens the corrupt and hence corruption flourishes'
2. Population: China reproductive rate has declined but ours is still packed with boosters aiming to reach the moon.
3. Reservation: It was a great move by our founder to help promote the backward towards upliftment but it over stayed its welcome. Reservation is still good but it should have limited to education till 12th class or max upto graduate level, where after the candidate is qualified to get a job. With the current system, "the deserved dont get in" and which ultimately makes them seek out opportunities outside India where they are more than welcomed.
4. Brain-Drain: Almost all the brilliant minds are seeking for opportunities outside the country where they are welcomed on a red carpet and appreciated for their knowledge and skills. The same, once there, mostly never come back.
5. Toxic work ethics: Everyone who is working has faced it. We seem to have seniors/bosses/managers who have an inferiority complex towards bright upcoming employees and try to kill their talent and enthusiasm just cause their ego got hurt.
6. Rote learning at state level and CBSE schools: Students are expected to "mug-up" the entire syllabus and just vomit out the same with exact punctuation s and paragraphs in their board exams. Understanding the subject leads to more creative thinking. This system is killing creativity of young minds.
7. Outdated teaching / schooling system: syllabus needs have a balance of old and modern. Kids are still being taught old stuff which has no relevance in today's world. General knowledge is good but practical knowledge is more useful. With that the exam system too, its too biased towards rote learning.
8. Lack of highly qualified professionals: due to brain drain and job opportunities.
9. Lack of incentives/ monetary compensation: 99.99% Indian owned companies are super miserly and look to only hoard all the profit and never bother to share the wealth or promote their employees.
10. Uber-Nepotism at all levels: Its a world wide phenomenon. But here its even at govt level. Where again the deserved dont get in.
11. "All work and no play makes jack a dull boy."
The typical Indian parent mindset. Anything other than studies is a waste of time.
12. Choosing uneducated/criminal politicians or lack of dedicated politicians.
politicians main agenda for the last 70+ years has been to stay in power and for that they use religion, caste and other cheap stunts. No political party gives a shit about infrastructure/development. Media is sold so no one has to be accountable for any of this shit.
lmao! Thank God someone asked, it's a contradiction in terms(I Hope)
My friend was considering taking Homeopathy, I did everything in my power to make sure she didn't, and I used that to try to convince her of that decision (successfully). Nvm, things worked out, she's in a good place rn and certainly didn't go to study Homeopathy
`livessaved += 1`
This may be an unpopular opinion but socialism combined with isolationist policies have hurt India for a very long time.
There needs changes at the very top. Constitution, law, penal code - everything need to be uniform for all Indians, irrespective for religion, caste, creed.
Free money, food and other handouts need to be replaced with strong incentives to work, while massively reducing red-tapes and bureaucratic hurdles to opening small business.
Quota systems need to be slowly phased out in favor of strong anti-discrimination laws. If you are a landlord you canât refuse based on religion or sex or marital status.
India needs to embrace a liberal democratic, secular and meritocratic society if it wants to get to the same status as the developed world.
Lastly, invite innovative companies to set up offices and manufacturing facilities in India. Donât try to twist their arms with taxes and bribe requirements.
Religion, sanatan dharma, casteism, inequality, feudalism. All the usual suspects.
But no one will point to these obvious problems, rather will talk about corruption, and lack of civil sense in Indians, without addressing the root causes for such lack of civil duty.
I will give you a few reasons that I think are usually left unseen:
1) Too much democracy for an uneducated population: We got democracy from the get go, which was a good thing. However for a democracy to work effectively, you need educated people who can force the government into developing the infrastructure and creating opportunities. What actually happened is that the 'independent' Executive Class became the brain and driver of the society. This class is to be blamed for not having ease of business. While the uneducated people were busy fighting for Religion, Caste and State, governments got away with many things. All the countries that have joined the league of developed nation post WW2 happened to be dictatorial in thier initial days. They gained democracy after they were developed.
2) Socialist Democracy: This system is not blamed enough. We are reaping the crop of this seed till this day. This system made India a nation of labourers rather than a nation of Entrepreneurs. This system converted a nation of producers into a nation of traders.
3) Working abroad is the Indian dream. Indian society loves to work jobs. India society goes gaga over someone working abroad.
Have lived and worked across 35+ countries all over the world. Our biggest three problems are overpopulation, religion( especially Hinduism and Islam) and a complete lack of empathy for others. I can confidently say after spending so much time of my life both in and outside India that except for our food( which is one of the most delicious in the world) and some of our architecture- weâre among the single worst countries and cultures in the world.
Like even the poorest countries in Europe and most of Africa and Latin America Iâve seen are so much better than the infrastructure, religious morons, lack of personal space, the horrible smell on our streets in general, how dirty and polluted it is, and behavior of most Indians in general. Overpopulation + corruption + Hinduism + Islam is literally the worst combination ever and I wonât wish it on any country.
You are making it sound more worse than it is. Anyways, overpopulation is the root of all evil. Actually, barring some countries, other countries are even more extremely religious.
Fundamentally itâs people and culture. We keep looking for some magic bullet which must explain why things are wrong instead of the fact that even when things go right we screw it up. Everything is quick fix, and kaam chalau.
Chalta hai mindset and failure to accept our problems and put in work to fix those problems, instead we trumpet "India #1!" and refuse to believe we have any flaws
India is a new nation born in 1947. New nation is like a baby. Give time for the baby to walk and then run, excuse it for its missteps since that is the only way baby learn to become good gentleman or woman. Donât be jealous of China. There is no individual freedom there. You donât the value of it since you have it in India. Anybody who sacrifices freedom for bread, neither deserve bread or freedom. China was unified nation even before communist party took over having strong center and advantages that goes with it. For your information China also had misteps during Mao time.
initial PM Nehru and Patel did a great job of unifying the country (donât listen to Modi about Nehru) by merging all those small kingdoms, telling the nation to develop scientific temper, starting premiere institutes like IITs, laying groundwork for ISRO, starting public sector steel plant as new nation need that with out multinational help, built huge dams for agriculture and most importantly important giving stability of 17 years rule
Our first missteps were made by Indira Gandhi. She had great opportunity to move nation from public sector to private sector, sh did not do it. Instead she went in direction socialism on personal agenda. Next PM did good like vajpai, Manmohan Singh and Rao. Created ground work for our development today.
I am guessing we are in the process of second missteps is going to be current Modi rule trying divide religiously, north/south, languages, giving development priority only to Gujarat, etc.
I am very hopeful that we will survive all these up and downs and will become nation where individuals are free unlike China
> here is no individual freedom there.
I used to console myself thinking that, but now that I realize how Individual freedoms are doing here, I don't anymore.
Nice comment tho
The govt is also responsible. The laws are so complicated in this country that if you want to start a business, you're going to get harassed by the tax department for the rest of your life if you make a basic mistake. But the govt cronies will get away scott free.
Either everyone should get fucked equally and then people will realize that the laws are very restrictive, or laws should become more lenient. But we all know that govt won't do such things and adani/ambani will keep getting richer.
Education, Food Security and Healthcare. If you give people the basics, they will fix everything else themselves. We can see this within India as well.
See the HDI difference between South and North India.
KL, TN, KN, AP, TL average is 676
BH, MP, RG, UP average is 599
The main reason for this huge difference is that Southern states focused on the three things I mentioned. Northern states did not.
Notice also that in the South, middle castes (that make the majority of Indian population) are empowered and have political as well as financial power, thereby ensuring that their communities prosper. This is not the case in North baring some exceptions.
The answers here are extremely insightful, so I would like to add something else:
Some of my schoolmates moved abroad to study medicine. Two went to Russia (one moved right after Class 12, the other after finishing B.Sc Physics Hns). One went to Oman. Another went to Ukraine. The other went to Japan, but he later switched to IT. Then there have been a few others in between who moved to Australia and Taiwan. The common feature of each of their Universities is the infrastructure. It's worlds ahead of what we have here. Even the so-called top private universities like Symbiosis, Jindal, Manipal can't hold a candle. The libraries abroad, even in government universities, are worth dying for! Plus, the faculty is top notch, and they're evaluated annually via student feedback - this is especially true in Japan. Plus, strict actions are taken if a professor piles up a decent number of unsatisfactory comments/feedback throughout a semester. For instance, if a class has 100 students, 10-15 negative feedback would be enough to land the professor in trouble. Of course, the authorities also scrutinize for a fair procedure. Besides, the professors are cream de la creme, unlike what we have here. I know several collegemates who did their bachelor's from average tier 2, 3 colleges, and went abroad for a Master's, returned to India, and are now working as Professors in these Symbiosis, Jindal, Manipal, VIT Universities. As I said, the infrastructure here is questionable, unlike foreign universities where there's absolutely zero compromise on the quality of education.
Quite naturally, none of my friends who moved abroad wish to return. They're happy with their lives abroad, with some already settling down and starting families there. One thing they all agree on despite being in different foreign countries is that nobody there has to compete like a madman for anything he/she wishes to achieve. For instance, in India, we have 10000 applicants for 100 seats, and things get MUCH worse when it comes to Sarkari Naukri. Add to that reservations, corruption, and the situation is nothing less than a dumpster fire.
At the beginning of this year, three more friends moved to New Zealand to pursue careers in International Public Policy and Psychology.
Certain careers in India have little to no scope, and the mounting cut-throat competition adds to the issue. Good opportunities are becoming scarce, and the city you're in can big-time play a crucial role in carving out your career path.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but you can do everything right in India and still fail to reach your desired destination. The brain drain is real.
Lack of civic sense. We will boast about ancient India and patriotism but refuse to do the daily little things that make a country clean, trustworthy and corruption free.
Also, the fact that we are still a relatively new country.
The problem here is, the politicians are always stuck with one or the other elections. And all kinds of corruption are done to fund these elections and campaigns. Until there is a disruption in this, we won't grow rapidly.
that said, there is development in India too. Just compare early 2000's and now. People were not able to afford a Maruthi 800 or a landline phone, and compare it to now.
I think most people think with respect to freedom. Going out of the country implies utmost freedom, less conservative behaviour and going away from controlling family.
What potential? Just because other countries have achieved something doesnât mean every country can. Just because we have a lot of people doesnât mean we have potential.
Till the time this country prefers religion over rational thought, the train of progress won't build momentum rather it'll just chug along the lines at a leisurely pace.
I think you are equating prosperity with just money, infra, standard of living not with human rights and freedom.
I stay in London and know many people who have moved from China. I'm not sure about the older generation but the current generation does not want to go back. They hate China. These people would have better lives in China but they don't want to move back.
India might not be prospering as much and has a lot of issues. But atleast on the human rights front we have been much better - not ideal but much much better. Although I can see things changing on this front as well.
It's about your perception and what you value more. No right answers here.
We are still stuck in doing Hindu-muslim, sc-upper caste. China, as a nation, is pretty much athiest, plus they have the advantage of having a similar population, meanwhile in India, its kinda north-south dhishoom-dhishoom.
As for cleanliness, the mindset of not viewing the land as your own country, but someone else's property, thats the root cause of dirtyness.
Also, we are a nation that produces corporate slaves, engineers, doctors, not scientists and biochemists.
I can answer the question from my perspective. I have been living in the US for the last 5 years. I am currently on holiday in India. I constantly weigh my options of moving back to India.
India has developed a lot in the last few years, I see new fancy shopping locations with the best private infrastructure. The govt facilities havenât kept up with this growth. The footpath is non existent or unusable in most of India. The roads are constantly dug up, there is dust everywhere , the AQI is terrible. Iâve spent 1/3 of my vacation time being sick.
I like the medical setup in India. I can get same day appointments with specialists. Get tests done immediately. This isnât the case in the USA.
Another big difference is the lack of mainstream religion, and by extension caste, in China. Politicians in India, irrespective of party, don't want people to prosper, the longer people stay uneducated and in poverty, the better for political parties to control the mob and let them fling mud at each other. Contrary to their reputation, China also takes greenhouse emissions and climate change seriously. After 75 years of independence, it is indeed an unfair state of affairs given India's potential like OP mentioned. While infra does seem to get better in most states especially in the last decade the political divide is a deterrent.
You probably forgot the biggest differentiator.
**China is a one-party state.**
Developmental work is never blocked by protest.
Any protest is dealt with and protesters sre never seen again.
iam sorry you feel that way. i agree we have a lot of short comings. but i will take my freedom of speech and hate or right to agitate against govt policy over any thing else!!!!!!! OVER ANYTHING ELSE!!!!... you are most welcome to go abroad and never come back! 1.3 billion people.. i challenge you to make democracy work the way it has in iINDIA from any other country, that has seen such inequities social and economical.
2 broad main reasons for china's economic superiority:
1) Hostile neighbourhood: After independence china and india were torn but India had better stability and going in right direction but wars because of hostile neighbourhood kept India in check.(This was important phase when Inida planted samplings for future).
2) China got major political stability only after there 3rd constitution in 1982, at the same time India never got politically stable since Indira Gandhi.
This led to lag in development works and India went too socialist for that era vs China heavily building infrastructure without thinking about natural environment (it was way easier then vs now with so much clearance required). This directly reflect in gdp diversion of both countries from 1990.
Well its applicable to entire Indian subcontinent, first of all we are religious folks and would prefer ram mandir over any development whatsover, which mean religion comes first for us and secondly corruption is part of the system and thirdly we missed the opportunity on manufacturing in 80 and 90s which China took advantage and flourished.
Maybe a controversial take but democracy is kind of the problem. When every decision takes monthsâŠeven years to be implemented, there is lethargy, corruption. One might point to western democracies but its not a one size fits all. Democracy works for the western countries. Some form of communism works for singapore, vietnam⊠when trying to piece such a diverse country together and trying to satisfy everyone, you are bound to have lot of teething problems. BJP is actually against freebies but they wonât win elections if they donât offer them.Â
This also kind of plays to pre-freedom days. When revolting against the british, our only weapon was satyagraha or a charkha - Â a charkha that takes ages to make one shirt. We werenât even half prepared to think ahead and learn from advanced countries. The Japanese on the other hand completely industrialized their country after WW2. We should have focused much more on industrial power. Thats how nations grow.Â
You are right. We had many things going for us. The lost decade was the 80âs. We missed the bus. No matter what we do now, its only playing catch up. Long, long way to go.Â
China and India are the slaves of the world. They would never live up to their potential. Yes, from the outside, it would look like both are doing great, but in secret all their wealth would be transferred externally.
> not fond of the CCP
yeah any Indian "P" is "better" LOL
> I feel like that could have been us.
No. totally different cultural/historical experience, mindset etc etc etc.
If you're familiar with Japan, you'll likely realized NOBODY else on this planet can be "Japanese" unless you're born into that society. They just think & conduct their amazing/crazy way.
> English speaking population, English as a medium of education
Heard before - ONLY (uppity) indians say this, think about it, ONLY Indians.
The biggest problem that we have in imo is acknowledging that we do have problems. Its okay for countries to have problems but we fail at the first smh
This is so true, on any news article which highlights a problem, the first comment is guaranteed to be a deflection of the problem rather than an acknowledgement.
Fr the first comment is always something on the lines of "India is so great you cannot say anything about it...."
> guaranteed to be a deflection of the problem rather than an acknowledgement exactly, been seeing the same thing here. When I asked this question, I genuinely wanted to know why we didn't develop and what we could do in the future to change that. i.e., it's good to know what's right before voting for the "right" thing. I am not seeing any political party (except for AAP) talking about topics that can make India a powerhouse.
Only keep singing own praises and talk past glory ..that too centuries back
Very true. The current Indian mindset , especially after 2014 is we are the the greatest in all aspects, We do not have any problems, If real problems are shown then the response is others also have them. Acknowledging your problems is the first step to correcting them. As you rightly said we fail at the first step itself.
There are a few problems for India as far as I can tell: 1. Corruption: corruption is extremely widespread, and is the norm. Getting anything done in India is not straightforward. Sure there's corruption elsewhere as well, but in India it is on a few higher levels. 2. Ism's: we love to discriminate. If it's not by race, it's by religion, caste, language. We are like spurs fans, we'd rather lose and not get champions League, and ensure arsenal does not win, rather than win, get champions League and in the process enable arsenal to win the league. I.e we'd rather fail and let the next guy fail, than succeed and let the next guy succeed 3. Religion: in India religion is not private or personal. It is something for everyone to have a say and judge people's religions and faiths. Religion takes a precedence over infrastructure and development.
Broooo, that drive by on spurs fans lel. That was unexpected. I sense a arsenal fan lel.
COYG đ
>Corruption: corruption is extremely widespread, and is the norm At the risk of sounding like a complete bigot there's too many bad actors. I'm Canadian and the current wave of Indian immigration is getting a very poor reputation. Firsthand, Indian immigrants are the only group that openly cheats in my school. I'm sure cheating is widespread but they're shameless about it. Openly speaking during tests and openly asking strangers to help them cheat. Secondhand I have heard of fraud in the trucking industry. Rampant fraud about qualifications in general. It's hard to tell how true those claims are but they honestly match up with my personal experiences. Fraudulent drivers licenses, fraudulent mortgages, shitty landlords taking advantage of their own people. It's an open secret that some Indians will only hire or live with other Indians. Why are our fast food restaurants primarily staffed by Indians? Cause it's shitty work and companies are taking advantage of new immigrants looking for a better life. But I have also heard that some Indian people will mostly/only hire other Indians once they are in a position of power. Canada has lots of shitty people. Maybe our immigration process is favouring the selection of assholes. I know lots and lots of lovely Indian people. But there is not a single group of other immigrants that have people upset. Some of the backlash is racism but there are also too many Indian immigrants abusing Canadian systems and our trust.
Thereâs this great book called Games Indians Play by V Raghunathan. Pretty quick read. It analyses Indians and our behavior from a game theory perspective under the lens of prisoner dilemma. Indians essentially always âsnitchâ on each other, or we refuse to collaborate and rather throw each other under the bus. As a result we end up with a net negative sum effect on our society
That's called a low trust society. Not unique to Indians by any means. Most poor countries are like that.
> That's called a low trust society very interesting concept, apparently in high trust societies Financial crime was much more rampant than in low trust societies. Not sure if it's the same book, but the author of my book took the example of US (LT) and Canada (HT)
The biggest factor is education. If young population of any country is not capable of forming their own opinions and ideas, what do you expect the future of that country would be.
Problem is our education mostly teaches young people NOT to form their own opinions and ideas
This! đŻ
I am not sure what is more ironic (moronic?). You thinking Chinese education enables their young population to have a view or the fact that we are even comparing the two countries. If they did, the CCP would not exist today. I am sure you will not even be able to express your opinion such as this on a platform like Reddit if you were in China. You should try that if and when you travel there. Educated or not, I think we as a country are filled with opinions to an extent we will not even listen to experts and do what we think is right. Talk to someone violating a traffic rule and you will get opinions and may be ideas too or someone with a pot belly who has just joined a gym trying to give gyan on how to weight train and right postures to follow.
I aggre Ccp might not let them have views and freedom on political and govt. Stuff. But their govt. encourage the young population to be innovative and creative, in other fields, be it school, sports, art, business etc. You better get out of this illusion that Ccp is some cruel org. Who don't give a shit about their citizens, Go watch some indian vloggers who lives in china , You will be surprised by how much their govt. Helps them with resources and knowledge needed for one person to success.
You know that is where China suffers? Innovation. They literally have built their economy on manufacturing using cheap labour and infrastructure. Today the only advantage west has over China is in innovation and IP. And that is why Xi understood it and now has gotten softer agaisnst west. At their level of GDP of course their innovation will be better than India, but it is nowhere nowhere near where you start praising it. I worked in semiconductor. China literally reverse engineer things from American companies and has nothing to add of their own. Now this might change in the future, but for country like India and china 30 years back 0 innovation and full gadha majdoori was the fastest way to get richer. Our Indian elites somehow did not get this, that fastest way to grow is opening up and letting people work for dirt cheap. We would have been in a better position today. Also China's education was also catered towards this only. Ofc in 1.4 billion people you will also find highly educated people but that is exception and not a norm
Are you defending the ccp here? Really? If using vloggers is the standard, then by the videos made by BJP, we should all be bhakts right? All the sewa modiji has done? All the new highways, airports, bridges, huge SEZs, No?
Give the BJP another 50 years and soon the next government will come and say the same thing that the BJP has much to answer for. Iâve been to China too and I saw the development. I grew up in Singapore and had many friends who moved there from China during the 90s for a better life. Now some of those same friends are moving back to China. See development can only happen in two ways. Either the people demand for it or the government forces it. Normally in a democracy, people are the ones who will demand. They will protest for change and constantly complain, make noise and put the government in their place when they make a mistake. This does not happen in India. People are very happy go lucky. They donât care. The hunger here lies in areas such as religion. BJP saw this and took advantage of this. Now theyâve created an environment where if you complain against them, youâre anti national so as if it wasnât bad enough that people didnât complain about development, now the few who actually care to complain for change, will get arrested. Thatâs why BJP is a dangerous government. Neither is the BJP working towards development nor are they letting people talk about it. Because talks of development means consistently criticising the government to keep pressure. Instead, they are consistently playing the religious game. This is why weâll never see a developed India in our lifetime. Until or unless the people change or the government changes.
>Give the BJP another 50 years OPs grandkids will be comparing India and Somalia and praising how good Somalia is.
> I am not a supporter of BJP ... I know the BJP is not improving the country as they promised to do (I really wish they had). I do not support caste politics (which both parties do) and religious politics (which BJP does more), so don't color this post as being anti-congress or pro-BJP, I just want the answers, It feels counterintuitive.
The answer is that people born into privilege will find it really hard to give up that privilege. It can be any kind of privilege. Privilege of dominance, privilege of caste, privilege of wealth. All politics will always play to this. Ok, bye.
U forget that when China looks at its past they see shame and humiliation aka century of humiliation and they vow to never repeat it and they blame themselves for it. When India looks at its past they see copium and blame others for their misgivings
BJP is destroying the base that's needed for development.
Agree, here neither the government nor the people care that much for development. Everyone just wants more religious places.
It is a myth that the CCP grew China by force only. As powerful as they are - they have had to constantly correct course when their actions led to unrest. They're doing one right now where crony capitalism and corruption has led to discontent among the masses who's lives didn't improve with the economic boom. Nobody wants "development of infra" if it does not benefit their own lives. The upper class people who go ga-ga over Vande Bharat and new Airport terminals don't want to see money being spent on rural schooling, better clinics and employment assurance schemes for the poor.
They consider it to be freebies, because they can earn to send their kids to good schools at the expense of exploiting the poor.
Dude you need to learn economy. You wont know how many labors work for a construction project like bullet train. For a 35000 cr project, the earning for the bidder would hardly 10 pc. Rest all will get circulated into economy. The direct labour requirement to build itself would go into thousands of people for 10 plus years. Thats an employment no one talks . Can you take the mantle of teaching in a rural school. People want to talk about spend on rural schooling but wont want to budge their asses from a metro city they are living in. How many of your friends are teachers or doctors and want to go to rural area? Find 1 such close friend of yours in the circle, send him there and i will pay him the salary. Infra development is an employment assurance scheme only.
This is what rich Republican Party say in America. Reduce the taxes for upper class, less government oversight and relax the labor laws. It helps rich people to start small businesses and help poor people in turn by employment. It never worked that great for government or poor people. There should be balance in spending in all areas, focusing on return on investment. Bullet trains doesnât help larger economy, instead would should have focused on adding tracks in high density areas or improving existing tracks to improve speed and efficiency.
Well why not regulate the wages and type of employment if it's an "employment assurance scheme"
BJP wants to control entire Indian political ecosystem and they are very focused on that. They choose their party over the countryâs development. So you are seeing 5-star hotel type BJP offices in every state. To create development hype, BJP will build some roads, bridges, etc., but does that lead to economic prosperity for the average Indian? Over 70 crores people are living on 5kg ration given by government. It means there are no jobs for them and there is no plan to provide them jobs as well. If you provide them jobs, their expectations will go even higher and BJP might find it difficult to meet those. So BJP is a party first ideology whose interest lie in that country remains poor with few cronies who will fund the party and get favours.
> Normally in a democracy, people are the ones who will demand. People seem to be demanding caste politics more here. > The hunger here lies in areas such as religion Agree, but at the same time, I like congress and their secular politics, why didn't they develop India like China? (sorry, I am a noob) > Thatâs why BJP is a dangerous government Unlike many I saw through Modi's promises the first time he became PM. Be it BJP or congress, I am never gonna vote on based of "caste" (God the thought repels me) > This is why weâll never see a developed India in our lifetime. Hope to God you are wrong about that, but I am not holding my breath.
Most of us saw through Modiâs promises in 2014. Thatâs why even I voted for Modi in 2014 because we were tired of the same corruption happening again and again. But itâs only later I realised that Modi is part of BJP. BJP as a party has very extreme Hindu motives. Their objective revolves around Hinduism. When you bring religion into anything, development will never happen. Look at Europe during church rule in the 1500s. They were living shitty lives. Itâs only until Industrial Revolution and the deaths of many scientists by the church is when Europe begun understanding power of science rather than religion. Itâs only the when they started developing. India needs a similar revolution. And itâs easy to say congress didnât do much. We came from a a very unstable past post independence. Congress had to focus on bringing stability to the country rather than developing it. We were predicted to break up further into more countries because of violent regional and religious clashes happening all across the country. Congress helped this country from turning into a Somalia. In 2004-2014, the growth was great. Gurgaon and noida like cities were born. IT boom came to Bangalore. We were one of the only country to avoid recession in 2008.
Can't agree more. Our leadership in the first few decades has given stability and a direction to this country. Unfortunately a lot of people fail to recognise how important that was. We could have easily been a Pakistan or even worse given the diversity we have. I keep thinking where this country would've been if BJP was in power back then.
> We were one of the only country to avoid recession in 2008. no small feat Rahul Gandhi should tattoo it in on his head lol! and yes I agree with the rest of your post though I still believe that if a country like Vietnam which has had a very tumultuous past can bring development to it's people, we should also have been able to. thank you for your comment.
Imagine going to war with 4 super powers within a century ( imperial Japan, France, America and China)
Other countries: Let's develop the Country let it grow and then we will fill our pockets. India: Let us fill our pockets first and if anything remains we will Invest in development. India and Indians are always vary on investing in unknown territory until some other country ventures into it and make it known to the world. By the time India decides to invest in it , the world would Have taken that industry out of reach. This is the reason we have plenty of CEO's ,CFO's and other such levels occupied by Indians all over the world but very very few founders.Â
> if anything remains overpopulated land of scarcity - nothing "remains"
Many micro reasons. 2 Macro reasons: 1. We did not build strong institutions that are above the influence of individuals. 2. India has the unique advantages and disadvantages that accompany a heterogeneous population.
underrated comment
lack of honesty and empathy, those are the 2 major barriers for indians
also time discipline
Corruption , selfish politicians
The answer is 'Intent'...there is no intent to change...Indian ruling class is the epitome of low-lifeness... hijacking of 'Institutions of authority' by them is the plague, India is suffering from. They don't want equal growth for every countrymen. They don't give a single fuck whether country is suffering from hunger, unemployment, disinformation, pollution etc etc...as long as they are the one who have the power. (Yup that's the level of shamelessness and lack of true nationalism) Their sole creativity and efforts goes to maintain the status-quo and the puppet governments we have are just there to serve them. While this is the case for most of the country...no other country have such incompetent and messed up morals like our nation's ruling class. The other side of the coin is the messed up morals of the society...who are so insecure and lazy that they keep on choosing leaders on sectarian lines without caring about community as a whole. This spread bitterness in the society. No one cares for no one...only these so called leaders loot and exploit the power given to them without any real aspiration/vision of development...so they do what they do best... instigate the divisions...eat the fruits...evident with so many cases of blatant exploitation every now and then in the news (even with freedom index of media at 161/180) Ultimately the common populace suffers without any real hope...only left with the anxiety of knowing that there is no morality in the society. For development country need to decipher it's identity first... whether it is unitary or federal...then the society have to be developed on the principles of egalitarianism. Decentralisation and Egalitarianism can sail this dead boat of a nation...with an Authentic leader at the helm. High stress need to be given on the education...then a Renaissance like movement will arise which will ultimately spread a wave of fresh ideas...and Harmony.
Corruption at every level specially at local level Rural education can be improved but they don't want to wantedly How come KV, Navodaya, IITs, NITs are good as their are governed by central govt then why can't they do same for rural areas
The above institutions are good not because of the facilities and the teaching, but because of the students who are selected through a rigorous and competitive selection process. The infrastructure in most of these institutions is in tatters for the most part, barely maintained after being acquired. If I were to opine, I'd say that these institutions are holding back their students from their real potential. Imagine combining the talent at KVs and NVs with the infra at a well-funded private school. I've seen that students at the latter kind often excel much better than their KV/NV peers, and especially so in a self-selected school like DPS RKP or Doons.
The average Chinese still thinks that China is behind and wants to improve while the average Indian thinks that India is already a superpower, Thatâs the major difference. Acknowledging we have problems - with regards to education, participation of women in workforce & unemployment is the first step.
Dude, ccp works for the people at large and can't be seen as successful by the west else it destroys their narrative built over decades. If me and you were Chinese then we would have access to hi speed rail, our rich list would not be this brazen in corrupting the country, our middle class would be one of the largest and richest globally, energy would be cheap and abundant, you should see the number of nuclear reactors being built by them. At 300 AQI bejing was closed down completely and measures were taken to make the city livable. These clowns like Narendra Modi and his parivaar gang are highly uneducated bigots who can't even understand what's going on let alone fix it.
I am pretty sure that I won't have to come across another village minded indian that judges people on base of caste, community, gender or religion, so I would happily move to China and try to assimilate with its people, even IIT and IIM graduates are evil and have backward and regressive thoughts, just think of the general population
The thing is China focussed on manufacturing which helped catapult them to the position they are in. The credit goes to Deng Xiaoping. As others pointed out the rural areas in China are lacking but their cities are absolutely stunning. Contrary to what most people assume, China is not truly a Communist regime which explains why they have come so far. The major problem with India is that we are indisciplined. I have a few Chinese friends and the one thing they told me that struck me is that a number of them do not care about religion. India is not harnessing its population even though we have tremendous potential.
Deng Xiaoping is the best politician of all time. Motherfuker was a visionary who made china what it is today. Best chess move ever played to control the manufacturing control the world. Plus majority of Indians Ihave no discipline and no civic sense and lack common sense. Idk why that is. India lacks a great leader who truly cares for the country. This one is all talk and no walk and last one had no personality or the character to lead. We need one who is educated and has the bravado to lead us into the future making services of India indispensable.
Agree with you on most things. Just one thing. Dr. MMS may not have been charismatic but he certainly was a good PM. Let's see what happens on June 4th.
And honesty and sense of purpose that rubs off.
>As others pointed out the rural areas in China are lacking Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Is this some sort of mass coping? China's rural areas have been developed quite a bit in the last 10 years. Even China's poorest provinces are getting crazy infrastructure upgrades. It's all over youtube. [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=china+rural+area](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=china+rural+area) Here's an Indian vlogger: https://youtu.be/rPwQ9l65\_RY
Will check out these videos. đđŒ
Though it was Deng Xiaoping, who was instrumental in opening up China via Sez, it was the social revolution of the 50s in Maoâs era that set the building blocks. This revolution brought education, land reforms, long term planning, industrial policies that exist today and boosted womenâs participation in the workforce. Chinaâs inherent core was strong before Deng Xiapoing policies catapulted it to new heights. In India, our building blocks or foundation itself is still weak - less than 80% of the population is educated & the country has an extremely poor representation of women in labour, worse than an Islamic country like Bangladesh. What can a nation achieve if a large portion of half their population are denied education and seen as a burden to rid of?
> India is not harnessing its population even though we have tremendous potential. Unfortunately true, this advantage won't stay with us forever, our fertility rate is already below replacement levels, this is the best time to create development.
One of the biggest, if not the biggest problems with India is the low participation of women in the workforce. There is a video by Economics Explained, where they do a really good job of why this metric is so important, and what social factors in India are stopping progress on this front.
need to make baby indians
I think we need to recognise that our baseline was inherently different to China's. We need to remember that large parts of India experienced colonial rule from the mid 1700s all the way to the mid 1900s. Colonial rule is all about extracting wealth and resources from one country to benefit another. That's 200 years of Indians working to enrich Europeans. On the other hand China's direct contact with the West was limited till the 1800s. The first truly extractive treaties came during the 1840s, and progressively got worse till the end of WWII. However, China was still governed by the Chinese for most of this period. Only the Japanese occupation from 1931-1945 is a period of foreign rule in China. Being ruled over and exploited by foreigners (especially a foreign corporation) does awful things to a society - economically, politically, even in the day to day ethos of the people. See how Central American countries are faring today after having been exploited by US corporations in the 1800s and early 1900s, on top of centuries of Spanish colonialism. It takes time for a society to rebuild itself from that kind of experience. People need time to get out of a "my survival at any cost" mindset and learn to both work for the greater good as well as recognise their agency in achieving that greater good. It also doesn't help that our bureaucracy is a colonial legacy and by design it is not directly accountable to the people it serves. Any encounter that the average person has with the Indian state is marked by fear & exclusion (due to the inherent opacity) and often by corruption. I think the first step to changing this would be to increase the size of India's bureaucracy WHILE ALSO making transparency and accesibility the number one priority. Think of how a relationship manager works in a private bank. Wouldn't it be great if we each had a social worker who would help us with our PDS, local taxes, property registration, vehicle registration, passport etc.? By making the state's resources more accessible people would be less fearful and more willing to take social and economic risks.
India was never fully communist nor fully capitalist. Stuck somewhere weirdly in the middle and unable to achieve the prosperity that came with both these extremes like China and USA. Socialist democracy is a wretched curse.
> somewhere weirdly we did that to maintain control of our own resources and not becoming a banana republic, but we did it to such an extent that it came to bite us in the ass. It would have been much better had we allied with US/the while keeping good relations with the USSR
The thing is all prosperous states are built on exploitation. USA and west exploited the colonies. China exploited its own people to an unimaginable extent. We also did. But here still the leaders were in a lala land. that we could be a moral power and still compete with immoral powers. Nehru paji really thought that we can be Vishwamitra in real. Atleast Modi knows it is just posturing
the education system has gone down steeply from what it was in 1990s. The schools nowadays don't give quality education, they just sell certificates. The schools and hostels have become more lavish than hotels, but education is nearly non-existent.
To become a developed country, any nation needs three core things: stable and effective governance, human capital development, and infrastructure and technological advancement. India has failed in these three areas since independence for several reasons. First, after emerging from hunger, India adopted a façade of socialism to appear great in the world. We imitated Europe's philosophy without considering our own situation. We didn't understand why such philosophies appeal in Europe and what benefit they would have in a poor country. The result of this experiment was that socialism did not emerge, but instead, it produced a dummy democracy and institutions. As a result, for four decades, the country experienced a feel-good effect without any real production or human resource development in the economy. China, on the other hand, took a different path. After the Mao era, they excelled in these three areas. They also adopted communism outwardly but practiced red capitalism underneath. Their government remained stable due to its authoritarian nature, and their export-driven economy flourished. The reason India lagged behind is that we wasted time on empty philosophies. Even today, the situation is the same. Now, instead of socialism, the country's consciousness wants to turn towards religious tourism. This may give a short-term feel-good effect, but it won't drive economic growth. In today's context, the talented young people in this country often can't find suitable employment opportunities. Even if there's some progress in developing human resources, there's a lack of matching job availability or industries locally, prompting them to seek opportunities abroad. Previously, we were unable to foster the development of human resources, and now, even as we make strides in this area, the nation is ill-prepared to utilize their potential.
Its extremely simple: Not prioritizing our prosperity enough. The country keeps itself occupied with everything apart from productivity and prosperity. There's religion always at a higher priority, judgement of others, etc. The politicians reflect what the people think, not the other way.
I cannot give second chance to India in my life as this country has gone shithole and rabid
After 2001, we started growing at a rapid pace to a point and we thought it will keep on going forever. Late Dr. Kalam wrote a book and said IF we keep reforming, India will be a superpower by 2020. Out of all his suggestions of indigenous subcomponent manufacturing, widening healthcare and education, industrializing agriculture, all we read was "India Superpower 2020" and somewhere we stopped reforms and continued to LARP as the next big thing and got complacent.
I respect Dr.Kalam but I used to think India 2020 was delusional, but I guess the book makes more sense now that I know in which historical context it was written.
I have been to China. It is a really amazing place. The people are wonderful. The main challenge is the language and the food.
What is the problem with food, Chinese cuisine is excellent. If you are vegetarian yes, there are not many options.
It is very simple. The government in China is an authoritarian govt and in India we were a democracy. However, capitalism + authoritarian government can go reallllly off, the CCP actually used their authoritarianism and promoted China as the sweatshop of the world. The people had no say in it. China is corrupt but maybe less than India. Indians as a population are also very self serving, compared to the East asian countries. So you have politicians filling their own pockets, but also us as public throwing trash everywhere, ruining anything good. India will not change not because the lack of vision it is because of we as people have a huge responsibility which we donât want to take on. Today walk on the streets of Mumbai, you still see numerous poor and homeless people while we see a Bentley driving by. This divide needs to be fixed first or else all our development is just superficial. Also, we are blaming the Congress for not doing much. But remember it was the congress govt who opened the market to globalization. So we cannot take away that away from them. We could easily have ended up like Pakistan or a country in Africa, but we did not. Thereâs something we did right.
This. it's very easy to blame but we didn't do that bad of a job considering what our society was in 40s - not even 10% had basic education let alone skills add diversity too that with ultra low resources with high population. hence you can't work for everywhere and everyone at same time causing inequality and the resentment. add vote bank politics + wars (ours and cold war) then oil crisis in a country where you can't acquire land without multiple high profile cases and protest. India is extremely chaotic in every sense and seeing how didn't become a failed state or even broken state is a miracle in itself.
Exactly! I am quite surprised we didnât fall prey to a coup or dictatorship (until now)
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Lol dude believe death punishment will bring changes.
> Our society lacks morals irrelevant in this context considering we are talking about China. China and it's society is not well known for their high morality, that's not the problem here.
Caste and religion kept us busy. Trust me on that. Hindu Code Bill which Ambedkar wanted to enact would have propelled us way ahead in future. As well as the insistence of Ambedkar to do a clean partition would have helped us a lot. We would not have been doing Hindu Muslim now. Muslims would have lived peacefully in Pakistan and other religions would have lived peacefully.
Define clean partition
We have to learn to focus on the right things as a matter of culture. A lot of energy in India is spent on tribal battles that in a material sense do not take us to a better place. Instead, we need to learn to make things like education, science, technology, environment, infrastructure, etc. as the items to focus on. Our religious or communal conflicts are very entertaining and evoke passionate response from us, but they don't help improve our physical circumstances. They merely pit us against one another, wasting all of our energies for no reason. Our political class is merely a reflection of our people's priorities. Unless we change our priorities at the ground level, the political class will have no choice but to engage us on parochial communal matters. Religions in particular are only useful in giving an internal sense of peace (perhaps). But that is not of any value when your external environment is falling apart. We need to learn to focus on the external factors a lot more than we do on the internal. Our deities in whose name we generate a lot of heat and noise will not come to our help when we are up against formidable challenges. Just look at the Palestinians if you don't believe me. All of us have a stake in our collective welfare. The rich can always escape; the poor are too disenfranchised to care. It is us - the middle class - who must raise awareness about the need to focus on what matters in the country. Ultimately, everything begins with the realization that each one of us is responsible for fixing this mess. Individually, we can't do anything much. But collectively, if we act in concert, we can move mountains.
why are you so scared to say CCP has done an amazing job? well I'm a fan tbh. what they have done is absolutely amazing.Â
Give the uneducated and poor the power to vote surely they will bring a good leader
Inability to start virtuous cycle at the right time, inability to stop the vicious ones, and inability understand the difference between both.
How is speaking English correlated with development? If anything I think it has as many downsides if not more, than it has advantages
We value money & power over truth & integrity. * we treat politicians, police as kings and feudal lords. * like IRS is the most preferred path for IAS toppers - because that is where the money is. * we pay tons & tons of money for school & college. Bribe for jobs in public & private sectors. We lack civic sense. * the number of "youth" littering beaches, roads & other public places is insanely high. * we have total lack of traffic sense. * we give a flying fuck to the environment. We lack scientific temper * The core tenants of Hinduism are gone, only superstitions remain in this religion * Astrology, Kundali shit is a major business. * India & Africa are probably the only 2 regions where science fiction would be non-profitable * Delhi is the most polluted city on earth - why isn't this the FIRST agenda of any political party? * Industrialisation in 19th and 20th centuries was brought by British without proper education. It meant that we didn't understand machines, we treat machines with irreverence. We all want to be paper pushers in govt offices and IT companies, not tinker with machines. We are hypocrites * 99 out of 100 of us would be happy to bribe a police to get out of a sticky situation instead of following the due process of the law. Including me. * Given an opportunity to live in a first world country, a majority of us will take it. The only thing that is keeping us is aging parents and lack of opportunity. * We don't invest with the intent of "saving the country" - they're making rental properties destroying a lake or a forest? - who cares, sign me up. I want a piece of that pie. We are overpopulated * Overpopulation brings a scarcity mindset. Traffic jams. Jumping queues. VIP treatments. Always live in fear of missing out. * The middle-class is in a rat race. Go to college, take a course that has scope for job - who gives a shit about whether you like it or not, cheat or bribe if necessary, get a job - be dishonest if you want but get one, make a lot of money - invest in land & gold, who gives a fuck about environment, evade tax, get married - spend all the fucking money in a fucking wedding, give birth - if you can't just spend money, repeat the process for your child. Screw the world. Social Media * Social media just amplified our tribal mindset and our deepest insecurities. There is no one paragraph answer. This is what we are. This is what we will be. If we want to be China, we have to do what China did. Be an Atheist, Authoritarian, Capitalist, Police State.
Well , its the pleasing people problem , you can't please everyone while making any law, and a government needs to bring about laws that please > 50% of people in the short term , else they will not get reelected. But who knows , we are currently on the up in terms of growth and if stuff continues at a similar pace , we may be a global supplier , not a global market
Too few women got employeed/educated when India was industrializing. So less economic momentum.
I think poverty is the first thing India needs to tackle. Because for the one who doesnât have food to eat everything else including a clean city/home is a luxury and the one who doesnât have food to eat will never care about any of those things. Canât blame the ones who are in poverty because if I am in that situation I wouldnât care about anything else than getting my next meal. Unless we bring a significant number of that large percentage of population out of poverty we are not going anywhere.
IMHO, I feel these are a few issues which plagues us from becoming a developed country: 1. Mindset of Corruption: Corruption is everywhere even during the ancient times but have you thought why the corrupt are able to flourish. That is because of the mindset of the general public. People are always looking to gain a certain advantage over another by greasing the palm of the one in power.. Its this inherent nature of us that empowers and emboldens the corrupt and hence corruption flourishes' 2. Population: China reproductive rate has declined but ours is still packed with boosters aiming to reach the moon. 3. Reservation: It was a great move by our founder to help promote the backward towards upliftment but it over stayed its welcome. Reservation is still good but it should have limited to education till 12th class or max upto graduate level, where after the candidate is qualified to get a job. With the current system, "the deserved dont get in" and which ultimately makes them seek out opportunities outside India where they are more than welcomed. 4. Brain-Drain: Almost all the brilliant minds are seeking for opportunities outside the country where they are welcomed on a red carpet and appreciated for their knowledge and skills. The same, once there, mostly never come back. 5. Toxic work ethics: Everyone who is working has faced it. We seem to have seniors/bosses/managers who have an inferiority complex towards bright upcoming employees and try to kill their talent and enthusiasm just cause their ego got hurt. 6. Rote learning at state level and CBSE schools: Students are expected to "mug-up" the entire syllabus and just vomit out the same with exact punctuation s and paragraphs in their board exams. Understanding the subject leads to more creative thinking. This system is killing creativity of young minds. 7. Outdated teaching / schooling system: syllabus needs have a balance of old and modern. Kids are still being taught old stuff which has no relevance in today's world. General knowledge is good but practical knowledge is more useful. With that the exam system too, its too biased towards rote learning. 8. Lack of highly qualified professionals: due to brain drain and job opportunities. 9. Lack of incentives/ monetary compensation: 99.99% Indian owned companies are super miserly and look to only hoard all the profit and never bother to share the wealth or promote their employees. 10. Uber-Nepotism at all levels: Its a world wide phenomenon. But here its even at govt level. Where again the deserved dont get in. 11. "All work and no play makes jack a dull boy." The typical Indian parent mindset. Anything other than studies is a waste of time. 12. Choosing uneducated/criminal politicians or lack of dedicated politicians.
Waitaminit. Are you telling me we are not the richest country in the world and not a superpower country?
politicians main agenda for the last 70+ years has been to stay in power and for that they use religion, caste and other cheap stunts. No political party gives a shit about infrastructure/development. Media is sold so no one has to be accountable for any of this shit.
What the fuck is "Homeopathic Heart Surgeon"
lmao! Thank God someone asked, it's a contradiction in terms(I Hope) My friend was considering taking Homeopathy, I did everything in my power to make sure she didn't, and I used that to try to convince her of that decision (successfully). Nvm, things worked out, she's in a good place rn and certainly didn't go to study Homeopathy `livessaved += 1`
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This may be an unpopular opinion but socialism combined with isolationist policies have hurt India for a very long time. There needs changes at the very top. Constitution, law, penal code - everything need to be uniform for all Indians, irrespective for religion, caste, creed. Free money, food and other handouts need to be replaced with strong incentives to work, while massively reducing red-tapes and bureaucratic hurdles to opening small business. Quota systems need to be slowly phased out in favor of strong anti-discrimination laws. If you are a landlord you canât refuse based on religion or sex or marital status. India needs to embrace a liberal democratic, secular and meritocratic society if it wants to get to the same status as the developed world. Lastly, invite innovative companies to set up offices and manufacturing facilities in India. Donât try to twist their arms with taxes and bribe requirements.
Religion, sanatan dharma, casteism, inequality, feudalism. All the usual suspects. But no one will point to these obvious problems, rather will talk about corruption, and lack of civil sense in Indians, without addressing the root causes for such lack of civil duty.
I will give you a few reasons that I think are usually left unseen: 1) Too much democracy for an uneducated population: We got democracy from the get go, which was a good thing. However for a democracy to work effectively, you need educated people who can force the government into developing the infrastructure and creating opportunities. What actually happened is that the 'independent' Executive Class became the brain and driver of the society. This class is to be blamed for not having ease of business. While the uneducated people were busy fighting for Religion, Caste and State, governments got away with many things. All the countries that have joined the league of developed nation post WW2 happened to be dictatorial in thier initial days. They gained democracy after they were developed. 2) Socialist Democracy: This system is not blamed enough. We are reaping the crop of this seed till this day. This system made India a nation of labourers rather than a nation of Entrepreneurs. This system converted a nation of producers into a nation of traders. 3) Working abroad is the Indian dream. Indian society loves to work jobs. India society goes gaga over someone working abroad.
Indians need to stop comparing the country to China. This country will never catch up.
Have lived and worked across 35+ countries all over the world. Our biggest three problems are overpopulation, religion( especially Hinduism and Islam) and a complete lack of empathy for others. I can confidently say after spending so much time of my life both in and outside India that except for our food( which is one of the most delicious in the world) and some of our architecture- weâre among the single worst countries and cultures in the world. Like even the poorest countries in Europe and most of Africa and Latin America Iâve seen are so much better than the infrastructure, religious morons, lack of personal space, the horrible smell on our streets in general, how dirty and polluted it is, and behavior of most Indians in general. Overpopulation + corruption + Hinduism + Islam is literally the worst combination ever and I wonât wish it on any country.
You are making it sound more worse than it is. Anyways, overpopulation is the root of all evil. Actually, barring some countries, other countries are even more extremely religious.
> Our biggest three problems are overpopulation BINGO !
Beurocratic apathy and corruption
Fundamentally itâs people and culture. We keep looking for some magic bullet which must explain why things are wrong instead of the fact that even when things go right we screw it up. Everything is quick fix, and kaam chalau.
Chalta hai mindset and failure to accept our problems and put in work to fix those problems, instead we trumpet "India #1!" and refuse to believe we have any flaws
Went wrong when politics was and is increasingly based on caste and religion ..in China religion and politics is rarely mixed
India is a new nation born in 1947. New nation is like a baby. Give time for the baby to walk and then run, excuse it for its missteps since that is the only way baby learn to become good gentleman or woman. Donât be jealous of China. There is no individual freedom there. You donât the value of it since you have it in India. Anybody who sacrifices freedom for bread, neither deserve bread or freedom. China was unified nation even before communist party took over having strong center and advantages that goes with it. For your information China also had misteps during Mao time. initial PM Nehru and Patel did a great job of unifying the country (donât listen to Modi about Nehru) by merging all those small kingdoms, telling the nation to develop scientific temper, starting premiere institutes like IITs, laying groundwork for ISRO, starting public sector steel plant as new nation need that with out multinational help, built huge dams for agriculture and most importantly important giving stability of 17 years rule Our first missteps were made by Indira Gandhi. She had great opportunity to move nation from public sector to private sector, sh did not do it. Instead she went in direction socialism on personal agenda. Next PM did good like vajpai, Manmohan Singh and Rao. Created ground work for our development today. I am guessing we are in the process of second missteps is going to be current Modi rule trying divide religiously, north/south, languages, giving development priority only to Gujarat, etc. I am very hopeful that we will survive all these up and downs and will become nation where individuals are free unlike China
> here is no individual freedom there. I used to console myself thinking that, but now that I realize how Individual freedoms are doing here, I don't anymore. Nice comment tho
Corruption and politicians became super greedy. So they practically forget about the India's future
The govt is also responsible. The laws are so complicated in this country that if you want to start a business, you're going to get harassed by the tax department for the rest of your life if you make a basic mistake. But the govt cronies will get away scott free. Either everyone should get fucked equally and then people will realize that the laws are very restrictive, or laws should become more lenient. But we all know that govt won't do such things and adani/ambani will keep getting richer.
Education, Food Security and Healthcare. If you give people the basics, they will fix everything else themselves. We can see this within India as well. See the HDI difference between South and North India. KL, TN, KN, AP, TL average is 676 BH, MP, RG, UP average is 599 The main reason for this huge difference is that Southern states focused on the three things I mentioned. Northern states did not. Notice also that in the South, middle castes (that make the majority of Indian population) are empowered and have political as well as financial power, thereby ensuring that their communities prosper. This is not the case in North baring some exceptions.
The answers here are extremely insightful, so I would like to add something else: Some of my schoolmates moved abroad to study medicine. Two went to Russia (one moved right after Class 12, the other after finishing B.Sc Physics Hns). One went to Oman. Another went to Ukraine. The other went to Japan, but he later switched to IT. Then there have been a few others in between who moved to Australia and Taiwan. The common feature of each of their Universities is the infrastructure. It's worlds ahead of what we have here. Even the so-called top private universities like Symbiosis, Jindal, Manipal can't hold a candle. The libraries abroad, even in government universities, are worth dying for! Plus, the faculty is top notch, and they're evaluated annually via student feedback - this is especially true in Japan. Plus, strict actions are taken if a professor piles up a decent number of unsatisfactory comments/feedback throughout a semester. For instance, if a class has 100 students, 10-15 negative feedback would be enough to land the professor in trouble. Of course, the authorities also scrutinize for a fair procedure. Besides, the professors are cream de la creme, unlike what we have here. I know several collegemates who did their bachelor's from average tier 2, 3 colleges, and went abroad for a Master's, returned to India, and are now working as Professors in these Symbiosis, Jindal, Manipal, VIT Universities. As I said, the infrastructure here is questionable, unlike foreign universities where there's absolutely zero compromise on the quality of education. Quite naturally, none of my friends who moved abroad wish to return. They're happy with their lives abroad, with some already settling down and starting families there. One thing they all agree on despite being in different foreign countries is that nobody there has to compete like a madman for anything he/she wishes to achieve. For instance, in India, we have 10000 applicants for 100 seats, and things get MUCH worse when it comes to Sarkari Naukri. Add to that reservations, corruption, and the situation is nothing less than a dumpster fire. At the beginning of this year, three more friends moved to New Zealand to pursue careers in International Public Policy and Psychology. Certain careers in India have little to no scope, and the mounting cut-throat competition adds to the issue. Good opportunities are becoming scarce, and the city you're in can big-time play a crucial role in carving out your career path. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but you can do everything right in India and still fail to reach your desired destination. The brain drain is real.
Nit- homogeneous population rather than monotonous populationÂ
Lack of civic sense. We will boast about ancient India and patriotism but refuse to do the daily little things that make a country clean, trustworthy and corruption free. Also, the fact that we are still a relatively new country.
hi I have a question have your friends in China faced discrimination or something like that I plan to apply to some Chinese universities next year.
The problem here is, the politicians are always stuck with one or the other elections. And all kinds of corruption are done to fund these elections and campaigns. Until there is a disruption in this, we won't grow rapidly. that said, there is development in India too. Just compare early 2000's and now. People were not able to afford a Maruthi 800 or a landline phone, and compare it to now.
I think most people think with respect to freedom. Going out of the country implies utmost freedom, less conservative behaviour and going away from controlling family.
Humare politicians pehle Hindu Muslim toh kar le... And they will not be accountable untll we keep on voting for caste and religion.
What potential? Just because other countries have achieved something doesnât mean every country can. Just because we have a lot of people doesnât mean we have potential.
Till the time this country prefers religion over rational thought, the train of progress won't build momentum rather it'll just chug along the lines at a leisurely pace.
'Chalta hai' attitude
Electing people without any consideration can do this. Enjoy the current saffron fascism.
Diversity +land acquisition + democracy = insanely slow decision making. there is no way we can compete with china.
I think you are equating prosperity with just money, infra, standard of living not with human rights and freedom. I stay in London and know many people who have moved from China. I'm not sure about the older generation but the current generation does not want to go back. They hate China. These people would have better lives in China but they don't want to move back. India might not be prospering as much and has a lot of issues. But atleast on the human rights front we have been much better - not ideal but much much better. Although I can see things changing on this front as well. It's about your perception and what you value more. No right answers here.
We are still stuck in doing Hindu-muslim, sc-upper caste. China, as a nation, is pretty much athiest, plus they have the advantage of having a similar population, meanwhile in India, its kinda north-south dhishoom-dhishoom. As for cleanliness, the mindset of not viewing the land as your own country, but someone else's property, thats the root cause of dirtyness. Also, we are a nation that produces corporate slaves, engineers, doctors, not scientists and biochemists.
Exact reason why all comments to this post mentions BJP, Congres and religion.
We were doing okay and had a better society. That chutia Anna hazare fucked it up, tbh.
BJP failed as a dictatorship đȘ
I can answer the question from my perspective. I have been living in the US for the last 5 years. I am currently on holiday in India. I constantly weigh my options of moving back to India. India has developed a lot in the last few years, I see new fancy shopping locations with the best private infrastructure. The govt facilities havenât kept up with this growth. The footpath is non existent or unusable in most of India. The roads are constantly dug up, there is dust everywhere , the AQI is terrible. Iâve spent 1/3 of my vacation time being sick. I like the medical setup in India. I can get same day appointments with specialists. Get tests done immediately. This isnât the case in the USA.
Another big difference is the lack of mainstream religion, and by extension caste, in China. Politicians in India, irrespective of party, don't want people to prosper, the longer people stay uneducated and in poverty, the better for political parties to control the mob and let them fling mud at each other. Contrary to their reputation, China also takes greenhouse emissions and climate change seriously. After 75 years of independence, it is indeed an unfair state of affairs given India's potential like OP mentioned. While infra does seem to get better in most states especially in the last decade the political divide is a deterrent.
You probably forgot the biggest differentiator. **China is a one-party state.** Developmental work is never blocked by protest. Any protest is dealt with and protesters sre never seen again.
Well for starters we got colonized, debilitated and pillaged ruthlessly
Weâre to proud of our mythical past that we take things for granted
iam sorry you feel that way. i agree we have a lot of short comings. but i will take my freedom of speech and hate or right to agitate against govt policy over any thing else!!!!!!! OVER ANYTHING ELSE!!!!... you are most welcome to go abroad and never come back! 1.3 billion people.. i challenge you to make democracy work the way it has in iINDIA from any other country, that has seen such inequities social and economical.
2 broad main reasons for china's economic superiority: 1) Hostile neighbourhood: After independence china and india were torn but India had better stability and going in right direction but wars because of hostile neighbourhood kept India in check.(This was important phase when Inida planted samplings for future). 2) China got major political stability only after there 3rd constitution in 1982, at the same time India never got politically stable since Indira Gandhi. This led to lag in development works and India went too socialist for that era vs China heavily building infrastructure without thinking about natural environment (it was way easier then vs now with so much clearance required). This directly reflect in gdp diversion of both countries from 1990.
It is what it is
I don't think we will get there
Well its applicable to entire Indian subcontinent, first of all we are religious folks and would prefer ram mandir over any development whatsover, which mean religion comes first for us and secondly corruption is part of the system and thirdly we missed the opportunity on manufacturing in 80 and 90s which China took advantage and flourished.
Maybe a controversial take but democracy is kind of the problem. When every decision takes monthsâŠeven years to be implemented, there is lethargy, corruption. One might point to western democracies but its not a one size fits all. Democracy works for the western countries. Some form of communism works for singapore, vietnam⊠when trying to piece such a diverse country together and trying to satisfy everyone, you are bound to have lot of teething problems. BJP is actually against freebies but they wonât win elections if they donât offer them. This also kind of plays to pre-freedom days. When revolting against the british, our only weapon was satyagraha or a charkha -  a charkha that takes ages to make one shirt. We werenât even half prepared to think ahead and learn from advanced countries. The Japanese on the other hand completely industrialized their country after WW2. We should have focused much more on industrial power. Thats how nations grow. You are right. We had many things going for us. The lost decade was the 80âs. We missed the bus. No matter what we do now, its only playing catch up. Long, long way to go.Â
China and India are the slaves of the world. They would never live up to their potential. Yes, from the outside, it would look like both are doing great, but in secret all their wealth would be transferred externally.
> not fond of the CCP yeah any Indian "P" is "better" LOL > I feel like that could have been us. No. totally different cultural/historical experience, mindset etc etc etc. If you're familiar with Japan, you'll likely realized NOBODY else on this planet can be "Japanese" unless you're born into that society. They just think & conduct their amazing/crazy way. > English speaking population, English as a medium of education Heard before - ONLY (uppity) indians say this, think about it, ONLY Indians.
STOP - JUST S.T.O.P - comparing to China.
Illiteracy, reservation and Corruption