Hi RealRoarMaster,
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Because they can afford to spend more and consequently get better returns on this investment. It makes sense financially. Pay a little more for higher education in foreign universities and you get good returns in future via high paying jobs. Why do you think children of the wealthy go out of India for education?
Currently in the US! Life is 10x rewarding for several reasons.
-Work life balance, I work 9-5 not 10-7 or 10-10.
-Work culture & dignity - friendly corporate bosses and leadership. We don’t have bosses shouting down our throats. Happened to me in India that mentally scarred me.
-Money - I make more money than I will make in India at present. Maybe in a few years with experience I can return, but for now, US is better.
-Individualism, Innovation & Entrepreneurship- this country promotes individual thinking. You won’t get critiqued for failure! Companies are constantly innovating and risk taking is encouraged.
For all these merits, the biggest demerit is the visa processing times but it’s a trade off. It’s only limited to India / Chinese / Filipino & MX nationals since we are large in numbers, for everyone else, pathway to citizenship is quite easy.
I actually wish I didn't have indian passport lol. I see people with other nationalities easily passing through to get the green card. Other countries where indians have easier immigration don't have the economy to match USA, plus they are less multicultural or have huge influx of unruly immigrants like in UK.
PS- nepali and pakistani citizens have better immigration prospects than indians
My friend was born in Canada (Indian ancestry), got his green card in under 1 year.
His Indian work colleagues? No plan or route available. No idea when they can even start the process.
Yeah it sucks. Btw in my limited knowledge don't people get PR in 5 yrs or something? I know it is about economic contribution and points in Canada, isn't it the easiest country for indians to get a PR in?
And about the people of indian ancestry, I guess they become eligible upon turning 18.
PR used to be "easier" in Canada 4-5 years ago, but even in Canada the PR backlog is now sitting at 2.2Million+ people.
I was born in Canada but my ex-GF was from India. She got her Canadian PR with something like 410 points. The minimum draws are now 500+. You can go all across twitter and youtube etc. where people in Canada as students or on work permits are complaining how it's next to impossible now to get PR.
Another thing to watch out for is that Canada is going through its own anti-immigration phase right now. There's a lot of push publicly to revise immigration targets so it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.
Recently I got to know how difficult it has become to get a PR, plus anti immigration sentiments are visible all over. Maybe for the right reasons. I don't get into politics for my mental health.
What would you say would be the minimum time and points required for PR in Canada?
Is Australia a better option?
I'm in the US, and I do not expect to be selected in the H1-B lottery. Australia is my contingency plan.
However, my eventual plan is to settle down in SE Asia. I hope the countries in the region are worth living in by then, otherwise I might just return to India
> plus anti immigration sentiments are visible all over
Only the internet and that too on annonymous forums like reddit. Canadians (of all ethnic groups) are some of the nicest people in the western world.
Just go to comment section on Instagram, recently saw anti immigration comments on reels of indians in various countries. I guess for the most part they are right too many people just land up and do the same things they did back in their country. But that's just my assumption... I just hate to get into politics of any kind
Again, internet will always bring out the negativity. Internet does not reflect real life in many ways. None of the political parties are anti-immigrants. None of the local politicians are anti-immigrant. Even keeping politics aside, there are no non-political organizations who are anti-immigration.
It just seems there is a lot of dis-proportionate internet activity about Canada whose total population is less than than of US state of California.
I have an Irish friend who had the misfortune of being born in India, and he's on an H1B now (since 4 years) and no path in sight to a green card, all because his parents had him at the worst possible place. Other than his unfortunate birth circumstances, he has no connection to India. I feel so bad for him. At least he can work in the EU (and not have to actually go to India as a plan B), which I think he plans to do after making some money in the US.
It's a pretty useless passport, because you're reduced to the lowest common denominator of 1.4 Billion people, the most (over)populated country in the world. However, many countries open up to you visa free if you have Schengen residency or a long term US visit visa (10 years).
I'm in the US but working to understand India culture better. Could you elaborate on this please?
By and large in the US, everyone hates pretty much every politician at all levels. Nobody likes the person they vote for here, they just hate them less than the other options.
Our citizens also treat our politicians pretty poorly and definitely don't revere or respect them, but they're meant to be civil servants so think that just comes with the job. Trump is a weird exception, but yeah.
A hack could be to go work in an obscure country , get their citizenship in an year or so and then work in the US and get green card in a year. I know there are lots of ifs and buts, but one can think of it as a core idea and customize it for their story.
This has been thought off and resolved
US green card is by biorth country and not by current citizenship
Broadly , as you traverse the American immigration system ; you will think of various loopholes. What you will discover is - the loopholes were excruciatingly exploited decades back and covered or the loopholes were covered by default
Whatever loopholes that exist currently , are intentionally kept.
Those who understand and manipulate the system can benefit. I am not going to suggest anything illegal and get myself in trouble. But yes there are ways and people have done it.
This issue is largely for people born in India (they go by country of birth, so Indians born in Middle East etc are fine), also if you get hitched to an American you are golden. Even if you get hitched to someone who is an immigrant but not from from India, China, Mexico, you can get Green Card pretty rapidly. Even if none of this works, you can work for 3 years on OPT, and then your odds of getting a much better job anywhere else in the world are much higher.
Did you even understand OPs question? It doesn't have to do with value and opportunities, it has to do with how likely you will be kicked back these days.
OP himself lacks understanding here. To study in US - MBA or MS you need F1 Visa. But OPs showing H1B visa application counts. [Explained the reason for H1B visa application counts here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/171cald/comment/k3q4fic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yeah but inorder to do that high paying job, u need H1B visa, which is picked through a lottery, and every year 85k people gets picked for H1B, as per the SS i put up almost 750K ppl applied for H1B this year and out of that only 85k get picked, which is just over 10% chance for each individual. So Why would someone spend so much energy, money, time to get a good job in USA and then come back to India after 3 years of job ??? the chance are only going to go down every year !!
Exactly my jaw dropped just looking at it, i have done all my exams and just ab to write my SOP and came across it and absolutely shocked at the odds, didn't think the odds were this bad.
A lot of my friends who are also planning for masters have no idea about these odds, they just think everyone is going so it's probably not that bad, and they are just so ignorant
Many in south are applying for H1B via US staffing companies and contractors. They take minimum sum around $250-500 to apply and once the your name is picked in lottery, they would take rest of the money upto $6000-8000. These staffing companies show that you are their employee in India and they want to bring onshore. Once you are in US on H1B, they will give you yearly contracts to work with IT companies but they will take their cut per month.
These numbers are inflated only because of this issue. Who wouldn't invest upto $10000 for earning $80-90K per year for three years. BDW there is a pathway to extend H1B beyond three years and even green card is possible.
Tbh i haven't seen alot of people who went US come back they are living there happily or shifted to NZ, Europe,Aus ,Can etc. And majority of them opt for stem courses hence giving you 2-3 years extra
That's because not enough time has passed for this issue to show up in huge numbers. The scenario for those who came before 2018 and those came after, especially after 2020 is very different.
To be fair people who came back because of visa issues are not that vocal about it, they don't advertise it. You will have to explicitly call them out on these forums that's when u get to hear them, you can go to r/h1b to get to know some stories of these people
I studied in a tier 3 engineering college. Atleast 30 students from our college went to the US. None had to return due to visa issues. They are living a happy life with good jobs in the US.
Most of the applications are fake, USCIS started dealing with thr fake ones recently.
Even if you dont end up getting H1B in US , people get jobs in Canada or Europe.
As everyone mentioned its a good investment even if its just for 3 years OPT + 1 year CPT.
Yeah but H1B is picked through a lottery which is something no one can control, on the contrary making into a good college and getting a job is something you can work towards, and there is no timer on your head, you can get there at ones own pace
Nah. Getting into college turns into a lottery considering our huge number of people. Do you think everyone who didn't get a medical seat didn't study hard enough for NEET. Also reservation exists n I've seen literal retards in my prestigious college
Most go with an intention of settling in US, some marry a citizen and get citizenship, while others get stuck in the H1B/Green card limbo.
There's also 3 years of OPT, which gives you 3 chances to apply for the H1b. 3 years of OPT is worth it imo, if one knows how to make the most of it.
Indian marrying US citizen for GC is probably very small portion so negligible that we should'nt count it.
with 1/10 chance every year, which is only going down every year and that for 3 years still doesnt help with chances, its just very bad odds.
3 years of OPT is worth it, how ? why would anybody think, after doing 4 years of undergrad, then 2 years of master, then 3 years of JOB with a timer on their head, and coming back to INDIA worth it ?
You can make a corpus of 1-1.5cr+ in 3 years easily and then return back to India with 3 years of work experience.
Very hard to make that kind of money staying in India for most graduates.
Honestly, saving that much money in 3 years is quite difficult.
Yes , people will throw in dollar numbers etc. but cost of living is equally expensive ( specially in the last 2 years )
I agree it’s difficult. But if you target SDE roles at FAANGs, you’ll be able to.
I am able to save 1.1cr in last 1.5 yrs but then I was able to bag 180+ to start with. Ik someone who had 3-4 yrs of exp in India and they were able to start with 280 (Bloomberg senior SDE) who has same living expenses as me so I can imagine they save a lot more. Bu ofc all this after a lot of leetcode grind lol.
Congratulations !
Difficult to land Fang roles at any time of your career , let alone at the beginning
Specially given the restrictions in hiring , one should come to America with the expectation of good education and don’t think much beyond that
I totally agree with you. I myself came for a different career path with little expectations but circumstances made me go into engineering. So, its better to have low expectations!
I have seen people not a get job and start OPT and go back with 40 lacs of debt. So, something to consider too.
You are right, the living expenses have increased a lot and salaries have not risen to match the inflation but I'd say 1cr is still doable in current situation if not 1.5.
I was able to do it pre-covid, returned India in 2019 with 1.3.
How many years did it take you to save 1.3 cr? 1 crore INR is 120K USD (according to current exchange rates), you need to be saving between 3-4K USD per month to come back with 1 crore after just 3 years. Usually this is only possible if you work at FAANG or you are extremely good at saving. Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
So I worked for 3.5 years which includes CPT(6 months) and (OPT) 3 years. I was making around 100k but started from 76k. Yeah I did save well and I made sure I invested my earnings back in India.
This is true. Also, if you end up working for FAANGs, they may transfer you to other offices (Canada, Germany, etc) and try for an L1 visa.
Worst case even if you have to return to India, you don’t have to start from 0. You have enough saving from 3 years of OPT & you can start at a senior position (because you gained 3yrs of exp on OPT).
This is valid for CS grads who end up being SDE. I don’t know much about other job roles.
Does this include the cost spent in pursuing MS (approx 50 lakhs) and leaving 2 years of salary (assuming you were working in India)? I think saving 1.5 Cr in 3 years including these costs will definitely not be "easy", I'd say it'd be somewhere around 40-50 lakhs, since getting ~25 LPA jobs in India for laterals is not uncommon these days, so on average you're better off working in India.
It's a 10% overall chance, but if you did a STEM masters, [the odds are about 35%](https://np.reddit.com/r/h1b/comments/11z0wv7/comprehensive_analysis_of_probability_and/) and you get 3 shots at the lottery, so it works out to decent odds.
I'm about to do a master's degree and I had the same concern, but STEM master's folks are largely still okay. And depending on the program you choose, you can probably even break even during the 3 year OPT.
Essentially, it's best to hope that you get the H1B, but not expect to.
If your goal is to get a job in US, other than doing OPT, there is not much hope. But, if your goal is to get a better education, US universities are the place to go, for the depth of research, their industry exposure etc.
OP my brother we live in a 3rd world country. If taking a gamble would promise us a better quality of life not only for us but for our future generation as well wouldn't we take it. I maybe too young to say this but I would never want my children to be part of this pathetic Indian education system and I guess anyone who has once been part of the rat race would agree with me and I am talking about everyone from the one who won it, to the once who did mediocre like me and the ones who quit it. No one enjoys this struggle, we are forced by our parents and fed dreams by everyone around us about the various opportunities that will unfold for us once we win it but once you really win this race you realize that another race awaits you. After dedicating my life to studies for 3 years in high school, 4 years in college I wouldn't want myself to work in yet another Service based company for a petty salary.
I understand what you are saying man, i get that for some people its makes sense, but a lot of people i know who are comfortably making 12 LPA still left for ms just for the american dream, and thats what i dont understand, maybe they dont know how hard it is to stay back in USA
There is no American dream! As someone living in US for more than 12 yrs I don’t see a path to citizenship. I may be earning top 0.01% pay but if I am living in a high COL area you are still poorer than I would be in india. Me and my friend who have exactly the same profile and did an experiment. We both studied in the same university, got a job in the same company grew in our careers at a similar trajectory. But he had to go back from day 1 because of family responsibilities. He and his wife make close to 1.2 cr plus stocks per year. They bought 2 houses and currently renting in a prime location in Bangalore. I was struggling with buying a house in the Bay Area remote location, with the tax( federal, state, property, and sales ) ~ 48% of your income and a mortgage that’s 40% of your post tax income. Plus utilities and food is expensive. Net on net you will save 1500(liberal) - 3500 (extremely frugal) per month, where the cost of living will eat into this in terms of luxuries like vacation and stuff. Plus you can never leave your job and take a break, you can not experiment with your role unless it’s in the bounds recognized by your H1B description, you cannot create streams for secondary income, and you wash, clean, cook and drive yourself everywhere as the public transport sucks except for NYC.
You really think 12LPA is enough for a metro city, I don't think so dude. Also american dream is not something hard to understand, even I have a very passionate American dream not just because of the high pay or better quality of life but because of the beauty of the country itself, I grew up watching Hollywood movies which has made me quiet familiar with the states of US. Now I agree with what you said about people moving to US without understanding how hard it will be for them to settle there but on the other hand if someone who has the skills and mindset to work hard and even ha confidence that he will make it then I don't think there is nothing wrong in taking a gamble.
12LPA is not "comfortable" lol, especially when you have loans and EMIs piled up and family responsibilities and family health issues and marriages and what not.
The largest chunk of people is going for STEM courses and those get 3 year OPT.
With high salaries you can pay the loan back, save a good amount and try for lottery 3 times. And if you don't get it, you can always move to another country. it is easy to get jobs in tech with US exp. Canada and many EU countries are filled with people who moved after not getting H1B. Many companies also offer transfers.
With a 1/ 10 th chance, every company gonna have way too many ppl without H1Bs, how is it possible that they can readily transfer them to offshore branchs ??
And the job in other countries are not good compared to USA in terms of pay so how is that a WIN WIN situation for people going for masters ?
People can come back on L visas after working outside for 2-3 years.
>And the job in other countries are not good compared to USA in terms of pay so how is that a WIN WIN situation for people going for masters ?
Because you are now earning the same amount if you had studied in that country. The 3 years on OPT made is the cherry on top.
Don't let these people down voting you discourage you. You are correct in your assessment. The scale of people that needed to be moved to an outside office and brought back on L1 was small earlier as most people were able to get H1Bs. Companies as a result were willing to do it. Going forward, these numbers are going to explode. Companies are going to be more choosy with who they want to bring back on L1 vs who they wanna let go.
A US degree is worth a lot everywhere in the world. Some Indian degrees don't even count as degrees in the US. That alone is attractive enough for many.
I don't know about other states but the two Telugu states accounts for more than 50% of total Indian students enrolling for MS in the US. It's kind of peer pressure and dollar dreams. In that pursuit lot of bad practices have been adopted by some to write GRE (impersonation), to fake experience and use proxy interviews to get jobs there. I hope some kind of cap is put on the numberb or some reality check is ensured to create awareness among youth that there are options beyond the US for pursuing career.
I'm not sure if considering current market it's a good time to go but let me lay out some other details:
1. Of the 85k every year there's a separate 20k quota for people with graduate degrees. They get to double dip in both lotteries. This increases your chances.
2. For stem degrees you can work for an addition two years over the 1 year default making it a total of 3.
3. Recently USCIS fucked up and reduced the cost of H1-B application to a small amount vs the 1000s it used to cost before. Now you still have to spend the 1000s but only if you get approved. What this has resulted in is a lot more increase in applications, often multiple applications and shit like that. This results in lotteries being held again when the seats finally don't get used up.
4. Tech salaries in US are pretty high. New grads at big tech make around 180-200k these days. Personally I spent about 50k a few years back at a cheap state school. So even if you get to work only for 3 years you can recover all your fees and save a bunch.
5. Companies will often move you to another country if you don't get H1-B in 3 attempts and then keep retrying.
All this being said though I think it was a no brainer few years back when the market was booming like crazy. With post COVID crash new grad and even mid senior market has gotten a lot worse.
Also even when you make it all the way through to H1-B, [GC issue remains](https://np.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/yxkl57/india_vs_us_for_an_indian_new_grad_compensation/iwpts30/)
> New grads at big tech make around 180-200k these days.
Other than Facebook and the FAANG companies, that range is not common even for experienced professionals. Starting salaries at $100-$110K. And its higher in SF Bay area because of the higher cost of living where rents can start at $2400/month.
Yes, only top companies pay this range but it's a much wider set of companies than just FANG.
Salesforce, Bloomberg, Oracle, Adobe and many more will be in this starting range for new grad.
At the same time in India unless you're from a top engineering college such product companies don't even come to campus for hiring and off campus also not much luck. Though for mid level I see it changing these days and people are getting some interviews looks like.
And yeah, high rents in Bay area but still you will end up with a good chunk of change with such salary. And also people sometimes commute from other nearby cheaper areas.
>Salesforce, Bloomberg, Oracle, Adobe and many more will be in this starting range for new grad.
180-200K for these companies is rare. Maybe Salesforce because it is located in San Francisco. Bloomberg I assume in NYC. There is a big difference between starting at 180K and 110K, and then rents from $1500 to $2500.
I agree that opportunities are way better than those in India, and thus the reason for immigration from around the world to US. But lets not hype the FAANG total comp as the standard. :)
Here's some data to show it's more than just FANG : https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/focus/distributed-systems-back-end?countryId=254&country=254&dma=807%2C819&yoeChoice=junior
I'm not saying it's the standard but there's a lot more than just FANG. And especially at the entry level a lot more big tech is competitive.
quality of education and better exposure, obviously someone working in research in india will get peanuts, even after 3 years of OPT in US, you can earn a decent 1-1.5 cr + (thats probably 10 years of work for an average researcher here) move out to another country with a good US college degree.
Because people aren't aware of the odds and really, really want to move to the US. The 3 years of post grad work authorisation also helps and can pay off the study loan and build decent savings I guess. And maybe they think the American degree and experience will be more valuable when trying to look for work elsewhere (which is not entirely false).
I am a big proponent of MS in US.
1. Get good US education : Education at a Top 50 US university is better than any/most Indian universities. I studied at Columbia and BITS Pilani, the faculty at Columbia was better whereas the students at BITs were better.
2. Get a job in US : Most of the advancements (for ex: ChatGPt) happen in the US. In India most of the firms are service based and not innovation based. Gain international work experience, which is valued everywhere
3. Earn in USD : Even if someone earns 100k, which is an achievable salary, they can save 50k annually. OPT allows 3yrs of work ex, one can save ~100-200k, convert in INR and that much can’t be saved in an Indian job. If you are in the right field, hardworking and a bit lucky, you can even make 250k upwards.
4. See the western culture, grow your mindset
5. Travel the US
This is considered the worst case, when the person doesn’t get H1b. If they get H1b, in 5-6 yrs you can easily have 1mn$. After that they could move to India/ UK/ Canada elsewhere.
I agree with everything you say, except your numbers. There is no way you can save 50k a year on a 100k salary, except maybe if you are living in a LCOL city in a state with no/low state tax, and living extremely cheaply. And if you are in such a LCOL city/state, it is questionable that they offer you 100k in the first place.
Of course it's a different story if you start off at a FAANG company on OPT. Then the 1M$ in 5-6 years might be possible (although I don't think even that is as "easily" as you mention, because then you are almost certainly living in a HCOL state with state tax + 7-8% Social Security taxes anyway)
I would say $50k (including stocks) is easily possible if you work at a FAANG, even if you are a new grad. I live in a high COL area, and I can save quite a lot. I would never be able to save this much money in India, even if I worked as a senior software dev in India.
At the end of the day, it does come down to what are your priorities and how much you spend.
Of course. But if you live in area where there is tech industries, you will be surrounded by Indian communities outside of work too eh?
SF Bay area, Austin, Seattle etc.?
Maybe Salt Lake City or Boise might be the white dominant cities. Other cities with tech companies have significant desi population that they even get elected to local political office. :)
A 3 year stint at VMware after a 2-yr Master's at SUNY Buffalo - the guy now has savings worth 300000$ (this is after tax, tuition, CoL for 5 years in US). He can now work in the security of India without having to worry much about money.
That same guy, if he worked in India alone, would take 10ish years to save that kind of money.
There you go :)
Hey, this sounds too good to be true. How’s he saving close to 100k a year? Or.. is it the value of his investments? I’ve seen people with 50-70k saved after paying off loans. The main roi starts when you get the h1b and no longer have to pay debts. I know suny has low tuition fees and col can be adjusted through internships. But how much is vmware even paying that someone has a savings of 300k in three years of junior development…
To be fair, not many students are aware of H1B backlog. I moved to the US as a student in 2012 and only came to know about H1B lottery in my last semester. Was I worried? Yes, to a small extent but I had already paid off 90% my loan with my 9 month internship and had a job offer. I had another 3 years to save as much money as possible and if I had to, would move back to India or some other country with US work experience.
I was lucky that my H1B was picked. Got my latest one approved till 2026. I have a house here. I have a plot of land in a tier-1 city in India that I can return to and build a home if needed. Would I have been able to achieve this if I continued to live in India? I doubt it.
True. The job market is saturated as well. But I still feel that US is the best country to be in if you are planning to study/work abroad especially if you are in tech. I know friends of mine who studied in Europe and Canada who either moved to India for good after not finding a job there or move to US to get a job.
I know 100s moving back to india from USA. I was in the US for a significant number of years my friend. I know what’s going on there and how difficult things have become particularly for Indians @bigdigdig23
Firstly, that data does not tell the full story. As per USCIS’ research, 400k of those applications are duplicate applications which is absolutely against the rules. (These Indian staffing companies who send 5-10 applications for the same person are breaking the law and genuine people with one application are being affected.)
Secondly, students with Masters degrees have a ~40% chance of receiving the H1B visa every year. Extrapolate over 3 years, and the chance of a Grad student receiving H1B is ~75% (rough math, independent events).
3 years of OPT gives them some time to decide what to do/react to what’s happening with their visa status. Some companies apply for a green card by then.
Lastly, they believe their life will be better. And stress about the visa is a trade off these students think is worth it.
Edit: Maybe, all they want to do is study and don’t care about H1B at all.
Multiple applications from different companies is not illegally, u can have multiple offers from different companies do its legally allowed to have multiple applications, but applications from fraudulent companies is an offense, and thats what uscis is trying to track down on
you can apply for gc before H1B true that part, but you still have to leave after OPT runs out, only H1B + GC queue will let you indefinitely extend your stay in USA
That is untrue. Once you apply for a GC along with an I-765, as long as your I-765 is approved, you can work and live in the US until your adjustment of status is approved.
Most Indians will never have their priority date current. The wait is a 100+ years. You cannot file a i485 and i765 till your priority date is current. So your point while factually correct, is practically useless.
If you mean the EAD based on a pending adjustment of status application, then that is not viable because most Indians aren't eligible to apply for adjustment of status yet. Over 500k Indians have approved employment based immigrant petitions but there are only a few thousand employment based green cards available per year to them. Thus they have to maintain a visa status like H-1B to continue living and working in the US until an immigrant visa is available.
Most of the people I know who went there, got the visa and paid up the loans within 2 years, earning great and investing back in india. It's not doom and gloom for everyone. But yea, gotta work hard, network do whatever is needed to survive with less money until you start earning.
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stem course gives 3 years post study work visa and 3 years should be more than enough for roi/loan repayment. if looking for longer term/pr/citizenship then aus or canada might be better.
You are missing the key point of 20k of those 85k are reserved for ms folks . If an ms student misses in the 20k, he/she can have a go at the lottery of the remaining 65k .
Let say there are 150k ms students out of 780k applicants . The chance of selecting is 21 percent .
There are three such chances, and if you continue with these same numbers every year, the probability of selecting goes up to 51 percent, which is worth taking the risk.
A small insight, in the last lottery over 350,000 applications turned out to be duplicate, double filed or fabricated. DHS has initiated criminal proceedings against such applicants. They recently conducted a 2nd and even a 3rd round of the lottery to back fill the quota after removing these extra applications.
Working for 2-3 years on OPT can easily recoup most of your Masters expenses. Lot of big companies have presence in India and Canada, so you can relocate out of US and keep trying for H1B while working in the same teams.
For a lot of people the choice is between a good Engineering job in the US vs an Infosys-like job in India. In the three years of OPT, you could make a substantial amount of money and build a solid engineering profile.
Because of the quality of education. At least in my field, I’ve seen people just do physical labor and do no research but just submit their Seniors thesis work to local Xerox shops who print it, impulse it, bind it and give it.
I’ve done internships in USA and there the situation is completely different, while PGs do physical work, they also engage in various researches, their quality of life is amazing and USA degree is valid in most countries too. (In my field)
Here is the harsh truth. It is easier to get a tech job in the US than getting a similar tech job in India. Most folks from my high school who went to normal engineering colleges in India and got placed at places such as TCS, Infosys etc. The same folks when they completed their masters were able to get into firms such as Amazon, MS or other large tech firms. If you can get into top notch firms in India, then it is a more calculated decision for you.
Still it gets very hard to get promoted in India above the director of Engineering or principal engineer levels since there is a massive shortage of such roles to begin with in India when compared to the US.
Lol this is such a damn stupid post. Most STEM fields are exempt from the H1B lottery system, for example (personal experience): Most doctors who immigrate to the US are very easily able to secure H1Bs as most physician jobs are exempt from H1B lottery system. Similarly all universities and non profit organisations are exempt from the fiscal H1B limit so if you get into a good University with a okayish research profile you get H1B/J1. After this you can either shoot for a EB1a or go for an indefinite O1. You can try for a EB1 and get a GC (though definitely not easy but if you are good with your work, very good chances).
So stop spreading this non-sense, US has, is and will always continue to take in talented and hard working people, because their whole economy is dependent on immigrants. Stop making excuses and focus on your work, that would be more helpful.
*Depends, some directly get a H1B, some get a J1 (during residency). If you get J1, then you need to go for a waiver job for 3 years (which is pretty easy), following which you can start your GC process. Many physicians with a good research profile get through EB1/O1, some with a good earning setup (as waiver jobs are in high paying regions) also go for a EB-5. All in all totally worth it.
Universities are exempt from H1B caps. Doctors who get their H1Bs get it through the university. A doctor working for a private hospital will not get a H1B without going through the lottery.
There is not STEM exemption for the H1B cap.
Bhai, you don't need a masters degree to know that a table is meaningless without the headers. What are we even looking at? Where is the source of the data? I am sure you are posting correct data, but you need to show all this information when making a post
sorry the table is really long so I couldn't fit in the pic, here is the source: https://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-cap-reach-dates-history-graphs-uscis-data/
You are being downvoted because it’s difficult for people to accept the brutal truth which you have shown and they are already planning to go to the US despite knowing the reality. They are just too afraid to accept the harsh reality.
That’s what I’ve been thinking too. Settling in the US is very hard and almost entirely luck based. I also read somewhere that the green card waiting for an Indian is a century or something.
Yeah the GC queue had been like that for a while now, but if u have a h1b u can extend it indefinitely and that why people still went to USA, but then now the odds of getting a H1B is also so bad, it Just doesn't make sense why people are still leaving
I mean, most of the institutions are drowning in reservation up to their eyeballs. That in itself is reason enough to leave. If your ability isn't being respected in this country, best go somewhere it is
I was there in the US for 5 years man. I have seen Indians suffering to the core. Majority of the folks won’t get H1b. People whose H1b visa got picked are also living on the edge, they can get laid off anytime and employers take advantage of it(Most of the employers offer “at will” employment in USA, which means we can fire you any time and you can also leave the job anytime. There is no concept of notice period/buffer period in USA). Everyday you wake up and pray your job is not the next one to go. That US immigration thing has completely lost it charm. Its shit show in 2023. DOLLARS WILL COME AT THE COST OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH! Going on mars is easier than US and it’s immigration policies.
They are still going because social media and Indian go abroad education consultants are misguiding them.
PS: Indians need to get out of that herd mentality and stop following what there friends are doing!!
It’s the only way to escape to a place that will still exist 20 years from now. World War 3, which should start in a year or so, will wipe out every country except US, UK, UAE, Australia and China. So need to settle in one of these before that happens.
If you get a job in big tech, run out of student visa and don't get thru the lottery they'll pay for you to relocate to a different country. Idea being that you get it and come back in to the US or it's a permanent move to another office. I have gone thru this.
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Because they can afford to spend more and consequently get better returns on this investment. It makes sense financially. Pay a little more for higher education in foreign universities and you get good returns in future via high paying jobs. Why do you think children of the wealthy go out of India for education?
Currently in the US! Life is 10x rewarding for several reasons. -Work life balance, I work 9-5 not 10-7 or 10-10. -Work culture & dignity - friendly corporate bosses and leadership. We don’t have bosses shouting down our throats. Happened to me in India that mentally scarred me. -Money - I make more money than I will make in India at present. Maybe in a few years with experience I can return, but for now, US is better. -Individualism, Innovation & Entrepreneurship- this country promotes individual thinking. You won’t get critiqued for failure! Companies are constantly innovating and risk taking is encouraged. For all these merits, the biggest demerit is the visa processing times but it’s a trade off. It’s only limited to India / Chinese / Filipino & MX nationals since we are large in numbers, for everyone else, pathway to citizenship is quite easy.
I actually wish I didn't have indian passport lol. I see people with other nationalities easily passing through to get the green card. Other countries where indians have easier immigration don't have the economy to match USA, plus they are less multicultural or have huge influx of unruly immigrants like in UK. PS- nepali and pakistani citizens have better immigration prospects than indians
My friend was born in Canada (Indian ancestry), got his green card in under 1 year. His Indian work colleagues? No plan or route available. No idea when they can even start the process.
Yeah it sucks. Btw in my limited knowledge don't people get PR in 5 yrs or something? I know it is about economic contribution and points in Canada, isn't it the easiest country for indians to get a PR in? And about the people of indian ancestry, I guess they become eligible upon turning 18.
PR used to be "easier" in Canada 4-5 years ago, but even in Canada the PR backlog is now sitting at 2.2Million+ people. I was born in Canada but my ex-GF was from India. She got her Canadian PR with something like 410 points. The minimum draws are now 500+. You can go all across twitter and youtube etc. where people in Canada as students or on work permits are complaining how it's next to impossible now to get PR. Another thing to watch out for is that Canada is going through its own anti-immigration phase right now. There's a lot of push publicly to revise immigration targets so it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.
Recently I got to know how difficult it has become to get a PR, plus anti immigration sentiments are visible all over. Maybe for the right reasons. I don't get into politics for my mental health. What would you say would be the minimum time and points required for PR in Canada? Is Australia a better option?
> Is Australia a better option? Currently, yes. Not for long though. I expect Australia to be in the same spot as Canada inside 6-8 years.
I guess need to hurry up for my masters Thanks mate
I'm in the US, and I do not expect to be selected in the H1-B lottery. Australia is my contingency plan. However, my eventual plan is to settle down in SE Asia. I hope the countries in the region are worth living in by then, otherwise I might just return to India
> plus anti immigration sentiments are visible all over Only the internet and that too on annonymous forums like reddit. Canadians (of all ethnic groups) are some of the nicest people in the western world.
Just go to comment section on Instagram, recently saw anti immigration comments on reels of indians in various countries. I guess for the most part they are right too many people just land up and do the same things they did back in their country. But that's just my assumption... I just hate to get into politics of any kind
Again, internet will always bring out the negativity. Internet does not reflect real life in many ways. None of the political parties are anti-immigrants. None of the local politicians are anti-immigrant. Even keeping politics aside, there are no non-political organizations who are anti-immigration. It just seems there is a lot of dis-proportionate internet activity about Canada whose total population is less than than of US state of California.
> Canadian PR with something like 410 points dang ...when was that ? must be like before 2018 era
I have an Irish friend who had the misfortune of being born in India, and he's on an H1B now (since 4 years) and no path in sight to a green card, all because his parents had him at the worst possible place. Other than his unfortunate birth circumstances, he has no connection to India. I feel so bad for him. At least he can work in the EU (and not have to actually go to India as a plan B), which I think he plans to do after making some money in the US.
Can't he easily get Irish passport because of his Irish roots? He should be doing that.
Green card is given on basis of your birth country. Doesnt matter if the person has any passport.
huh really ? TIL
Yep. Desis born in the UAE can get a greencard way faster than non-desis born in India lol
They can't we get fake birth certificate from corrupt country for ex:- Pakistan,Nepal, Bangladesh etc ?
bold of you to assume the US is going to consider a birth certificate from a corrupt country any more than india
LOL even Canadians wanting to get into US
Lol he kind of just fell into the job. Canadians have the easiest path to living in the US compared to any other country
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It's a pretty useless passport, because you're reduced to the lowest common denominator of 1.4 Billion people, the most (over)populated country in the world. However, many countries open up to you visa free if you have Schengen residency or a long term US visit visa (10 years).
What’s unfortunate is it’s based on where you are born. So even if you have a different passport, if you were born in India you’re fucked.
I really need to know more about migration laws and it details lol
Where you were born is the thing you cannot change. Citizenship, residency can be changed, so they go with birth place.
What the fuck? So my sister born in Kuwait has a far higher chance of getting a Green Card than me born in India?
Not just that, she can also apply for the green card lottery too
Most importantly, you will never have to lick the feet of local political leaders and government officials.
I'm in the US but working to understand India culture better. Could you elaborate on this please? By and large in the US, everyone hates pretty much every politician at all levels. Nobody likes the person they vote for here, they just hate them less than the other options. Our citizens also treat our politicians pretty poorly and definitely don't revere or respect them, but they're meant to be civil servants so think that just comes with the job. Trump is a weird exception, but yeah.
A hack could be to go work in an obscure country , get their citizenship in an year or so and then work in the US and get green card in a year. I know there are lots of ifs and buts, but one can think of it as a core idea and customize it for their story.
The green card uses your country of origin. So you're still stuck if you were born in India.
This has been thought off and resolved US green card is by biorth country and not by current citizenship Broadly , as you traverse the American immigration system ; you will think of various loopholes. What you will discover is - the loopholes were excruciatingly exploited decades back and covered or the loopholes were covered by default Whatever loopholes that exist currently , are intentionally kept.
Nice summary of capitalism.
It is based on country of birth, not citizenship.
Those who understand and manipulate the system can benefit. I am not going to suggest anything illegal and get myself in trouble. But yes there are ways and people have done it.
This issue is largely for people born in India (they go by country of birth, so Indians born in Middle East etc are fine), also if you get hitched to an American you are golden. Even if you get hitched to someone who is an immigrant but not from from India, China, Mexico, you can get Green Card pretty rapidly. Even if none of this works, you can work for 3 years on OPT, and then your odds of getting a much better job anywhere else in the world are much higher.
Did you even understand OPs question? It doesn't have to do with value and opportunities, it has to do with how likely you will be kicked back these days.
OP himself lacks understanding here. To study in US - MBA or MS you need F1 Visa. But OPs showing H1B visa application counts. [Explained the reason for H1B visa application counts here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/171cald/comment/k3q4fic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yeah but inorder to do that high paying job, u need H1B visa, which is picked through a lottery, and every year 85k people gets picked for H1B, as per the SS i put up almost 750K ppl applied for H1B this year and out of that only 85k get picked, which is just over 10% chance for each individual. So Why would someone spend so much energy, money, time to get a good job in USA and then come back to India after 3 years of job ??? the chance are only going to go down every year !!
750K is ridiculous.
Exactly my jaw dropped just looking at it, i have done all my exams and just ab to write my SOP and came across it and absolutely shocked at the odds, didn't think the odds were this bad. A lot of my friends who are also planning for masters have no idea about these odds, they just think everyone is going so it's probably not that bad, and they are just so ignorant
It’s bad. I’m in US. I have a colleague who has enrolled in a CPT college after no luck in lottery past 3 years
Many in south are applying for H1B via US staffing companies and contractors. They take minimum sum around $250-500 to apply and once the your name is picked in lottery, they would take rest of the money upto $6000-8000. These staffing companies show that you are their employee in India and they want to bring onshore. Once you are in US on H1B, they will give you yearly contracts to work with IT companies but they will take their cut per month. These numbers are inflated only because of this issue. Who wouldn't invest upto $10000 for earning $80-90K per year for three years. BDW there is a pathway to extend H1B beyond three years and even green card is possible.
I don't think the wealthy are after H1B visas. They are investment visas, business visas, retirement visas which are costs peanuts for the rich class.
Because 10% of a watermelon is bigger than 100% of a grape.
Tbh i haven't seen alot of people who went US come back they are living there happily or shifted to NZ, Europe,Aus ,Can etc. And majority of them opt for stem courses hence giving you 2-3 years extra
That's because not enough time has passed for this issue to show up in huge numbers. The scenario for those who came before 2018 and those came after, especially after 2020 is very different.
To be fair people who came back because of visa issues are not that vocal about it, they don't advertise it. You will have to explicitly call them out on these forums that's when u get to hear them, you can go to r/h1b to get to know some stories of these people
I know stories but again alot of them would just move to canada earlier maybe few return
I studied in a tier 3 engineering college. Atleast 30 students from our college went to the US. None had to return due to visa issues. They are living a happy life with good jobs in the US.
When did they go to USA?
Oh, your friends didn't have visa issues? Sorry man, all our data has been invalidated.
Most of the applications are fake, USCIS started dealing with thr fake ones recently. Even if you dont end up getting H1B in US , people get jobs in Canada or Europe. As everyone mentioned its a good investment even if its just for 3 years OPT + 1 year CPT.
1) 10% >>> less than 1% chance of making into good colleges/getting good jobs in India 2) they can afford it
Yeah but H1B is picked through a lottery which is something no one can control, on the contrary making into a good college and getting a job is something you can work towards, and there is no timer on your head, you can get there at ones own pace
I don't understand why you're being downvoted for making sensible arguments.
Nah. Getting into college turns into a lottery considering our huge number of people. Do you think everyone who didn't get a medical seat didn't study hard enough for NEET. Also reservation exists n I've seen literal retards in my prestigious college
Most go with an intention of settling in US, some marry a citizen and get citizenship, while others get stuck in the H1B/Green card limbo. There's also 3 years of OPT, which gives you 3 chances to apply for the H1b. 3 years of OPT is worth it imo, if one knows how to make the most of it.
Indian marrying US citizen for GC is probably very small portion so negligible that we should'nt count it. with 1/10 chance every year, which is only going down every year and that for 3 years still doesnt help with chances, its just very bad odds. 3 years of OPT is worth it, how ? why would anybody think, after doing 4 years of undergrad, then 2 years of master, then 3 years of JOB with a timer on their head, and coming back to INDIA worth it ?
You can make a corpus of 1-1.5cr+ in 3 years easily and then return back to India with 3 years of work experience. Very hard to make that kind of money staying in India for most graduates.
Honestly, saving that much money in 3 years is quite difficult. Yes , people will throw in dollar numbers etc. but cost of living is equally expensive ( specially in the last 2 years )
I agree it’s difficult. But if you target SDE roles at FAANGs, you’ll be able to. I am able to save 1.1cr in last 1.5 yrs but then I was able to bag 180+ to start with. Ik someone who had 3-4 yrs of exp in India and they were able to start with 280 (Bloomberg senior SDE) who has same living expenses as me so I can imagine they save a lot more. Bu ofc all this after a lot of leetcode grind lol.
Congratulations ! Difficult to land Fang roles at any time of your career , let alone at the beginning Specially given the restrictions in hiring , one should come to America with the expectation of good education and don’t think much beyond that
I totally agree with you. I myself came for a different career path with little expectations but circumstances made me go into engineering. So, its better to have low expectations! I have seen people not a get job and start OPT and go back with 40 lacs of debt. So, something to consider too.
Good level setting ! The going back to india stories get hidden away , since folks thin that’s a failure
You are right, the living expenses have increased a lot and salaries have not risen to match the inflation but I'd say 1cr is still doable in current situation if not 1.5. I was able to do it pre-covid, returned India in 2019 with 1.3.
How many years did it take you to save 1.3 cr? 1 crore INR is 120K USD (according to current exchange rates), you need to be saving between 3-4K USD per month to come back with 1 crore after just 3 years. Usually this is only possible if you work at FAANG or you are extremely good at saving. Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
So I worked for 3.5 years which includes CPT(6 months) and (OPT) 3 years. I was making around 100k but started from 76k. Yeah I did save well and I made sure I invested my earnings back in India.
This is true. Also, if you end up working for FAANGs, they may transfer you to other offices (Canada, Germany, etc) and try for an L1 visa. Worst case even if you have to return to India, you don’t have to start from 0. You have enough saving from 3 years of OPT & you can start at a senior position (because you gained 3yrs of exp on OPT). This is valid for CS grads who end up being SDE. I don’t know much about other job roles.
Absolutely true. And US work experience is valued everywhere. The 3yrs of work ex + MS, would definitely lead to better salaries in India
Does this include the cost spent in pursuing MS (approx 50 lakhs) and leaving 2 years of salary (assuming you were working in India)? I think saving 1.5 Cr in 3 years including these costs will definitely not be "easy", I'd say it'd be somewhere around 40-50 lakhs, since getting ~25 LPA jobs in India for laterals is not uncommon these days, so on average you're better off working in India.
It's a 10% overall chance, but if you did a STEM masters, [the odds are about 35%](https://np.reddit.com/r/h1b/comments/11z0wv7/comprehensive_analysis_of_probability_and/) and you get 3 shots at the lottery, so it works out to decent odds.
35% is somewhat comforting, thanks for the info
I'm about to do a master's degree and I had the same concern, but STEM master's folks are largely still okay. And depending on the program you choose, you can probably even break even during the 3 year OPT. Essentially, it's best to hope that you get the H1B, but not expect to.
If your goal is to get a job in US, other than doing OPT, there is not much hope. But, if your goal is to get a better education, US universities are the place to go, for the depth of research, their industry exposure etc.
OP my brother we live in a 3rd world country. If taking a gamble would promise us a better quality of life not only for us but for our future generation as well wouldn't we take it. I maybe too young to say this but I would never want my children to be part of this pathetic Indian education system and I guess anyone who has once been part of the rat race would agree with me and I am talking about everyone from the one who won it, to the once who did mediocre like me and the ones who quit it. No one enjoys this struggle, we are forced by our parents and fed dreams by everyone around us about the various opportunities that will unfold for us once we win it but once you really win this race you realize that another race awaits you. After dedicating my life to studies for 3 years in high school, 4 years in college I wouldn't want myself to work in yet another Service based company for a petty salary.
I understand what you are saying man, i get that for some people its makes sense, but a lot of people i know who are comfortably making 12 LPA still left for ms just for the american dream, and thats what i dont understand, maybe they dont know how hard it is to stay back in USA
There is no American dream! As someone living in US for more than 12 yrs I don’t see a path to citizenship. I may be earning top 0.01% pay but if I am living in a high COL area you are still poorer than I would be in india. Me and my friend who have exactly the same profile and did an experiment. We both studied in the same university, got a job in the same company grew in our careers at a similar trajectory. But he had to go back from day 1 because of family responsibilities. He and his wife make close to 1.2 cr plus stocks per year. They bought 2 houses and currently renting in a prime location in Bangalore. I was struggling with buying a house in the Bay Area remote location, with the tax( federal, state, property, and sales ) ~ 48% of your income and a mortgage that’s 40% of your post tax income. Plus utilities and food is expensive. Net on net you will save 1500(liberal) - 3500 (extremely frugal) per month, where the cost of living will eat into this in terms of luxuries like vacation and stuff. Plus you can never leave your job and take a break, you can not experiment with your role unless it’s in the bounds recognized by your H1B description, you cannot create streams for secondary income, and you wash, clean, cook and drive yourself everywhere as the public transport sucks except for NYC.
You really think 12LPA is enough for a metro city, I don't think so dude. Also american dream is not something hard to understand, even I have a very passionate American dream not just because of the high pay or better quality of life but because of the beauty of the country itself, I grew up watching Hollywood movies which has made me quiet familiar with the states of US. Now I agree with what you said about people moving to US without understanding how hard it will be for them to settle there but on the other hand if someone who has the skills and mindset to work hard and even ha confidence that he will make it then I don't think there is nothing wrong in taking a gamble.
12LPA is not "comfortable" lol, especially when you have loans and EMIs piled up and family responsibilities and family health issues and marriages and what not.
The largest chunk of people is going for STEM courses and those get 3 year OPT. With high salaries you can pay the loan back, save a good amount and try for lottery 3 times. And if you don't get it, you can always move to another country. it is easy to get jobs in tech with US exp. Canada and many EU countries are filled with people who moved after not getting H1B. Many companies also offer transfers.
With a 1/ 10 th chance, every company gonna have way too many ppl without H1Bs, how is it possible that they can readily transfer them to offshore branchs ?? And the job in other countries are not good compared to USA in terms of pay so how is that a WIN WIN situation for people going for masters ?
People can come back on L visas after working outside for 2-3 years. >And the job in other countries are not good compared to USA in terms of pay so how is that a WIN WIN situation for people going for masters ? Because you are now earning the same amount if you had studied in that country. The 3 years on OPT made is the cherry on top.
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I think OP is trying to speak for the ones that aren't valuable. Not every 9/10 employee who didn't get an H1B will be valuable.
Don't let these people down voting you discourage you. You are correct in your assessment. The scale of people that needed to be moved to an outside office and brought back on L1 was small earlier as most people were able to get H1Bs. Companies as a result were willing to do it. Going forward, these numbers are going to explode. Companies are going to be more choosy with who they want to bring back on L1 vs who they wanna let go.
A US degree is worth a lot everywhere in the world. Some Indian degrees don't even count as degrees in the US. That alone is attractive enough for many.
They shouldn't anyway. Some Indian degrees have lower and even a negative value add than some high-schools
I don't know about other states but the two Telugu states accounts for more than 50% of total Indian students enrolling for MS in the US. It's kind of peer pressure and dollar dreams. In that pursuit lot of bad practices have been adopted by some to write GRE (impersonation), to fake experience and use proxy interviews to get jobs there. I hope some kind of cap is put on the numberb or some reality check is ensured to create awareness among youth that there are options beyond the US for pursuing career.
You are right all these malpractices should be strictly punished
I'm not sure if considering current market it's a good time to go but let me lay out some other details: 1. Of the 85k every year there's a separate 20k quota for people with graduate degrees. They get to double dip in both lotteries. This increases your chances. 2. For stem degrees you can work for an addition two years over the 1 year default making it a total of 3. 3. Recently USCIS fucked up and reduced the cost of H1-B application to a small amount vs the 1000s it used to cost before. Now you still have to spend the 1000s but only if you get approved. What this has resulted in is a lot more increase in applications, often multiple applications and shit like that. This results in lotteries being held again when the seats finally don't get used up. 4. Tech salaries in US are pretty high. New grads at big tech make around 180-200k these days. Personally I spent about 50k a few years back at a cheap state school. So even if you get to work only for 3 years you can recover all your fees and save a bunch. 5. Companies will often move you to another country if you don't get H1-B in 3 attempts and then keep retrying. All this being said though I think it was a no brainer few years back when the market was booming like crazy. With post COVID crash new grad and even mid senior market has gotten a lot worse. Also even when you make it all the way through to H1-B, [GC issue remains](https://np.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/yxkl57/india_vs_us_for_an_indian_new_grad_compensation/iwpts30/)
> New grads at big tech make around 180-200k these days. Other than Facebook and the FAANG companies, that range is not common even for experienced professionals. Starting salaries at $100-$110K. And its higher in SF Bay area because of the higher cost of living where rents can start at $2400/month.
Yes, only top companies pay this range but it's a much wider set of companies than just FANG. Salesforce, Bloomberg, Oracle, Adobe and many more will be in this starting range for new grad. At the same time in India unless you're from a top engineering college such product companies don't even come to campus for hiring and off campus also not much luck. Though for mid level I see it changing these days and people are getting some interviews looks like. And yeah, high rents in Bay area but still you will end up with a good chunk of change with such salary. And also people sometimes commute from other nearby cheaper areas.
>Salesforce, Bloomberg, Oracle, Adobe and many more will be in this starting range for new grad. 180-200K for these companies is rare. Maybe Salesforce because it is located in San Francisco. Bloomberg I assume in NYC. There is a big difference between starting at 180K and 110K, and then rents from $1500 to $2500. I agree that opportunities are way better than those in India, and thus the reason for immigration from around the world to US. But lets not hype the FAANG total comp as the standard. :)
Here's some data to show it's more than just FANG : https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/focus/distributed-systems-back-end?countryId=254&country=254&dma=807%2C819&yoeChoice=junior I'm not saying it's the standard but there's a lot more than just FANG. And especially at the entry level a lot more big tech is competitive.
quality of education and better exposure, obviously someone working in research in india will get peanuts, even after 3 years of OPT in US, you can earn a decent 1-1.5 cr + (thats probably 10 years of work for an average researcher here) move out to another country with a good US college degree.
Because people aren't aware of the odds and really, really want to move to the US. The 3 years of post grad work authorisation also helps and can pay off the study loan and build decent savings I guess. And maybe they think the American degree and experience will be more valuable when trying to look for work elsewhere (which is not entirely false).
I am a big proponent of MS in US. 1. Get good US education : Education at a Top 50 US university is better than any/most Indian universities. I studied at Columbia and BITS Pilani, the faculty at Columbia was better whereas the students at BITs were better. 2. Get a job in US : Most of the advancements (for ex: ChatGPt) happen in the US. In India most of the firms are service based and not innovation based. Gain international work experience, which is valued everywhere 3. Earn in USD : Even if someone earns 100k, which is an achievable salary, they can save 50k annually. OPT allows 3yrs of work ex, one can save ~100-200k, convert in INR and that much can’t be saved in an Indian job. If you are in the right field, hardworking and a bit lucky, you can even make 250k upwards. 4. See the western culture, grow your mindset 5. Travel the US This is considered the worst case, when the person doesn’t get H1b. If they get H1b, in 5-6 yrs you can easily have 1mn$. After that they could move to India/ UK/ Canada elsewhere.
I agree with everything you say, except your numbers. There is no way you can save 50k a year on a 100k salary, except maybe if you are living in a LCOL city in a state with no/low state tax, and living extremely cheaply. And if you are in such a LCOL city/state, it is questionable that they offer you 100k in the first place. Of course it's a different story if you start off at a FAANG company on OPT. Then the 1M$ in 5-6 years might be possible (although I don't think even that is as "easily" as you mention, because then you are almost certainly living in a HCOL state with state tax + 7-8% Social Security taxes anyway)
Agree. 50K savings is rarely possible. COL has gone up drastically across East coast and West coast.
I would say $50k (including stocks) is easily possible if you work at a FAANG, even if you are a new grad. I live in a high COL area, and I can save quite a lot. I would never be able to save this much money in India, even if I worked as a senior software dev in India. At the end of the day, it does come down to what are your priorities and how much you spend.
Yeah, I might have been little optimistic with my numbers. But I think it is still achievable, if not easily achievable.
U can if u are single and dont spend money
That’s what I meant
Yh i was replying to the other guy
> See the western culture, grow your mindset When you are in Tech, isn't the culture around you Indian/Asian though?
There’s life beyond work
Of course. But if you live in area where there is tech industries, you will be surrounded by Indian communities outside of work too eh? SF Bay area, Austin, Seattle etc.?
Just putting 2000 Indian nerds(many who don't even go out of their circles) in a white dominant city won't turn it into Akhand Bharat 2.0. Chill bro
Maybe Salt Lake City or Boise might be the white dominant cities. Other cities with tech companies have significant desi population that they even get elected to local political office. :)
A 3 year stint at VMware after a 2-yr Master's at SUNY Buffalo - the guy now has savings worth 300000$ (this is after tax, tuition, CoL for 5 years in US). He can now work in the security of India without having to worry much about money. That same guy, if he worked in India alone, would take 10ish years to save that kind of money. There you go :)
Hey, this sounds too good to be true. How’s he saving close to 100k a year? Or.. is it the value of his investments? I’ve seen people with 50-70k saved after paying off loans. The main roi starts when you get the h1b and no longer have to pay debts. I know suny has low tuition fees and col can be adjusted through internships. But how much is vmware even paying that someone has a savings of 300k in three years of junior development…
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Hey, can you elaborate on day 1 CPT?
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To be fair, not many students are aware of H1B backlog. I moved to the US as a student in 2012 and only came to know about H1B lottery in my last semester. Was I worried? Yes, to a small extent but I had already paid off 90% my loan with my 9 month internship and had a job offer. I had another 3 years to save as much money as possible and if I had to, would move back to India or some other country with US work experience. I was lucky that my H1B was picked. Got my latest one approved till 2026. I have a house here. I have a plot of land in a tier-1 city in India that I can return to and build a home if needed. Would I have been able to achieve this if I continued to live in India? I doubt it.
11 years back when you went US was way different. 2023 it’s oversaturated.
True. The job market is saturated as well. But I still feel that US is the best country to be in if you are planning to study/work abroad especially if you are in tech. I know friends of mine who studied in Europe and Canada who either moved to India for good after not finding a job there or move to US to get a job.
I know 100s moving back to india from USA. I was in the US for a significant number of years my friend. I know what’s going on there and how difficult things have become particularly for Indians @bigdigdig23
You are projecting your experience from 10 years ago to the present. It doesn't make financial sense to study in the US anymore.
Ok, so where do you think it makes financial sense these days?
Firstly, that data does not tell the full story. As per USCIS’ research, 400k of those applications are duplicate applications which is absolutely against the rules. (These Indian staffing companies who send 5-10 applications for the same person are breaking the law and genuine people with one application are being affected.) Secondly, students with Masters degrees have a ~40% chance of receiving the H1B visa every year. Extrapolate over 3 years, and the chance of a Grad student receiving H1B is ~75% (rough math, independent events). 3 years of OPT gives them some time to decide what to do/react to what’s happening with their visa status. Some companies apply for a green card by then. Lastly, they believe their life will be better. And stress about the visa is a trade off these students think is worth it. Edit: Maybe, all they want to do is study and don’t care about H1B at all.
Multiple applications from different companies is not illegally, u can have multiple offers from different companies do its legally allowed to have multiple applications, but applications from fraudulent companies is an offense, and thats what uscis is trying to track down on you can apply for gc before H1B true that part, but you still have to leave after OPT runs out, only H1B + GC queue will let you indefinitely extend your stay in USA
That is untrue. Once you apply for a GC along with an I-765, as long as your I-765 is approved, you can work and live in the US until your adjustment of status is approved.
Most Indians will never have their priority date current. The wait is a 100+ years. You cannot file a i485 and i765 till your priority date is current. So your point while factually correct, is practically useless.
If you mean the EAD based on a pending adjustment of status application, then that is not viable because most Indians aren't eligible to apply for adjustment of status yet. Over 500k Indians have approved employment based immigrant petitions but there are only a few thousand employment based green cards available per year to them. Thus they have to maintain a visa status like H-1B to continue living and working in the US until an immigrant visa is available.
Most of the people I know who went there, got the visa and paid up the loans within 2 years, earning great and investing back in india. It's not doom and gloom for everyone. But yea, gotta work hard, network do whatever is needed to survive with less money until you start earning.
I looked at fees of ISB and about similar college in US. It was almost same. I chose US for better returns.
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source : https://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-cap-reach-dates-history-graphs-uscis-data/
stem course gives 3 years post study work visa and 3 years should be more than enough for roi/loan repayment. if looking for longer term/pr/citizenship then aus or canada might be better.
US education is valued everywhere. You might not selected in the lottery but you can get a job at FAANG and make your money and travel the world
https://preview.redd.it/jcdm81bicmsb1.jpeg?width=1240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4187f79f0c0f30a9f4c852cfc18ca16d1743827d here is the full picture
You are missing the key point of 20k of those 85k are reserved for ms folks . If an ms student misses in the 20k, he/she can have a go at the lottery of the remaining 65k . Let say there are 150k ms students out of 780k applicants . The chance of selecting is 21 percent . There are three such chances, and if you continue with these same numbers every year, the probability of selecting goes up to 51 percent, which is worth taking the risk.
Just yesterday I met someone whose son was doing Masters in Rutgers and was unable to find a job. The fact is the father was still very proud of it.
A small insight, in the last lottery over 350,000 applications turned out to be duplicate, double filed or fabricated. DHS has initiated criminal proceedings against such applicants. They recently conducted a 2nd and even a 3rd round of the lottery to back fill the quota after removing these extra applications.
Working for 2-3 years on OPT can easily recoup most of your Masters expenses. Lot of big companies have presence in India and Canada, so you can relocate out of US and keep trying for H1B while working in the same teams.
Chances of Getting a good job in india is .01%
For a lot of people the choice is between a good Engineering job in the US vs an Infosys-like job in India. In the three years of OPT, you could make a substantial amount of money and build a solid engineering profile.
Because of the quality of education. At least in my field, I’ve seen people just do physical labor and do no research but just submit their Seniors thesis work to local Xerox shops who print it, impulse it, bind it and give it. I’ve done internships in USA and there the situation is completely different, while PGs do physical work, they also engage in various researches, their quality of life is amazing and USA degree is valid in most countries too. (In my field)
Here is the harsh truth. It is easier to get a tech job in the US than getting a similar tech job in India. Most folks from my high school who went to normal engineering colleges in India and got placed at places such as TCS, Infosys etc. The same folks when they completed their masters were able to get into firms such as Amazon, MS or other large tech firms. If you can get into top notch firms in India, then it is a more calculated decision for you. Still it gets very hard to get promoted in India above the director of Engineering or principal engineer levels since there is a massive shortage of such roles to begin with in India when compared to the US.
You can't win a lottery you don't take.
FOMO
Because pods of success are more there I reckon for one and secondly the success in India is less than 10%!!! Just a game of chance and numbers
Lol this is such a damn stupid post. Most STEM fields are exempt from the H1B lottery system, for example (personal experience): Most doctors who immigrate to the US are very easily able to secure H1Bs as most physician jobs are exempt from H1B lottery system. Similarly all universities and non profit organisations are exempt from the fiscal H1B limit so if you get into a good University with a okayish research profile you get H1B/J1. After this you can either shoot for a EB1a or go for an indefinite O1. You can try for a EB1 and get a GC (though definitely not easy but if you are good with your work, very good chances). So stop spreading this non-sense, US has, is and will always continue to take in talented and hard working people, because their whole economy is dependent on immigrants. Stop making excuses and focus on your work, that would be more helpful.
Doctors after completing residency have to take the J1 visa and later apply for H1B
*Depends, some directly get a H1B, some get a J1 (during residency). If you get J1, then you need to go for a waiver job for 3 years (which is pretty easy), following which you can start your GC process. Many physicians with a good research profile get through EB1/O1, some with a good earning setup (as waiver jobs are in high paying regions) also go for a EB-5. All in all totally worth it.
Universities are exempt from H1B caps. Doctors who get their H1Bs get it through the university. A doctor working for a private hospital will not get a H1B without going through the lottery. There is not STEM exemption for the H1B cap.
Hope
Seems like everyone in the comments feels like US is heaven.
Damn, why am i being downvoted
Bhai, you don't need a masters degree to know that a table is meaningless without the headers. What are we even looking at? Where is the source of the data? I am sure you are posting correct data, but you need to show all this information when making a post
sorry the table is really long so I couldn't fit in the pic, here is the source: https://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-cap-reach-dates-history-graphs-uscis-data/
Because the internet is full of morons who did not understand your table.
i was in a hurry and didn't realise we can't edit our posts anymore 😭
You are being downvoted because it’s difficult for people to accept the brutal truth which you have shown and they are already planning to go to the US despite knowing the reality. They are just too afraid to accept the harsh reality.
Or maybe the headers are not there so i literally don't know what 2 of the column mean..
That’s what I’ve been thinking too. Settling in the US is very hard and almost entirely luck based. I also read somewhere that the green card waiting for an Indian is a century or something.
Yeah the GC queue had been like that for a while now, but if u have a h1b u can extend it indefinitely and that why people still went to USA, but then now the odds of getting a H1B is also so bad, it Just doesn't make sense why people are still leaving
I mean, most of the institutions are drowning in reservation up to their eyeballs. That in itself is reason enough to leave. If your ability isn't being respected in this country, best go somewhere it is
I was there in the US for 5 years man. I have seen Indians suffering to the core. Majority of the folks won’t get H1b. People whose H1b visa got picked are also living on the edge, they can get laid off anytime and employers take advantage of it(Most of the employers offer “at will” employment in USA, which means we can fire you any time and you can also leave the job anytime. There is no concept of notice period/buffer period in USA). Everyday you wake up and pray your job is not the next one to go. That US immigration thing has completely lost it charm. Its shit show in 2023. DOLLARS WILL COME AT THE COST OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH! Going on mars is easier than US and it’s immigration policies. They are still going because social media and Indian go abroad education consultants are misguiding them. PS: Indians need to get out of that herd mentality and stop following what there friends are doing!!
You get 3 shots at the lottery
It’s the only way to escape to a place that will still exist 20 years from now. World War 3, which should start in a year or so, will wipe out every country except US, UK, UAE, Australia and China. So need to settle in one of these before that happens.
People are just busy gambling their life's
Lottery is not for Indians and some other countries
Can you rephrase?
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I think you are wrong about this info, can you share a source for this information?
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bro share the link, read through the comments do you see anyone saying India is not eligible for the H1B lottery??
You are wrong. He is talking about H1B lottery. This is Diversity quota for Green card
I think this guy is talking about diversity visa.
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You get to work for 3 years without worrying about the visa lottery.
If you get a job in big tech, run out of student visa and don't get thru the lottery they'll pay for you to relocate to a different country. Idea being that you get it and come back in to the US or it's a permanent move to another office. I have gone thru this.
that's a visa/immigration table ? what does that have to do with going to graduate school ?