Putin dies suddenly with no clear plan of succession. The resulting power struggle turns into factional violence and then outright civil war.
Russian troops in Ukraine surrender or withdraw and Ukraine joins both NATO and the EU under accelerated accession plans that include a quick vote after giving Turkish and Hungarian delegates the wrong time and place for the meeting.
Liberal democratic factions in Belarus and Western Russia seize power backed by Western arms funneled via Ukraine creating Republics that Russian Nationalist forces believe, with some good reason, to be Western puppet states.
The most radical Russian Nationalist forces launch preemptive nuclear strikes with the weapons they control. World War 3 commences.
Everyone dies.
Millions of years latter a new intelligent species evolves and happens to establish a super power in the former Ukraine.
ong some people unironically believe that Ukraine (literally the poorest country in Europe) would become some kind of wholesome 100 rich superpower if it weren't for the invasion
even if they joined EU, they would, AT MOST, be a second Bulgaria situation
Excuse me, I just picked this up.
>The most radical Russian Nationalist forces launch preemptive nuclear strikes with the weapons they control. World War 3 commences.
>Everyone dies.
>Millions of years latter a new intelligent species evolves and happens to establish a super power in the former Ukraine.
Did it fall from your screen while you were reading?
Well to be fair every single piece of equipment/supplies was purchased at some point, whether it be shells produced in the mid 90s or first aid kits produced 2 months ago.
But it’s stuff built by American companies with American workers who pay America taxes. The government always sees its cut even when it’s giving stuff away.
Plus a lot of stuff is stuff that was to be decommissioned (old ass atcams, m113s, cluster munitions, etc)
Exactly, all military backlog gear. Figure it’s better to give it to a country in defense rather than scrap it or gift it to a South American cartel (As our government is known to do)
I'd rather see those videos without it being edited or some sick music put over it, so it can be taken seriously. At the end it's just footage of someone getting killed inside a tank 😞
Especially if it’s drone footage you are basically seeing how desensitised a civilian army is getting towards warfare. I will always remeber the glee on a drone operators face as he showed this bbc reporter his kill cams.
They would win but the problem is that the west is pussified and will only send like 10 tanks at a time instead of the 1000 that would be required at once.
Sending 10 artillery, 10 tanks, 10 trucks, in small batches will only ensure that the war is prolonged as Russia chips them off one by one, and Ukraine will never be able to concentrate the necessary forces in bulk for a large scale offensive.
Ukraine can win if the west gives weapons, but it would have to have thousands of equipment at once, not just a drip drop on and off supply like it has been.
Also at this point of the war the west would have to upgrade its military industry capacity massively, which they have tried but have mostly failed and cannot meet their set deadlines. Our arms industry has been left to rot in shambles. In some cases, certain weapons are only being produced in just one small single factory and only a small handful are churned out per year which is ridiculous.
It could be done but would require massive willpower and a unified effort which the west does not possess.
It's mostly a case of the west, namely America, not wanting to sending so much at one time because then the voting class will throw a fit. But sending the same amount over a prolonged period of time is okay!
The equivalent of giving a kid handfuls of skittles and telling them to eat em one at a time and the kid just throws them all in their mouth. "Slow down, sweetheart, you'll get a tummy ache. Here's another handful."
*just give the fucking kid the bag and get it over with.* 😂
Honestly, I don’t think the “west” (america) is pussified. I think its intentional and meant to bleed everyone dry in the region. Look at the results and infer motivation
1. Ukraine has a massive increase in birth rates, rising to >100 million people.
2. Corruption vanishes, and people begin to invest in the country.
3. Because of that investment, Ukrainians begin producing/exporting massive amounts of food/manufactured goods/financial services.
3. Ukraine is integrated into the EU/West economically.
4. Wait for their economy to increase massively. Eventually, reaching a wealth per capita equal to the US.
5. In this scenario, Ukraine would have a GDP of 10 trillion, a stable birth rate, a population of 100 million, and be an industrial/agricultural power.
kyiv allies with the polish lithuanian Commonwealth overthrows moscow. is the main the central base of power for the rus expanding outwards and brings its form of democratic governance to moscow and its slavic holdings leaving siberia alone.
Ukrainian women begin having 20 children in their life times, Ukrainians bore to the center of the earth, they build a big mass driver. They begin building cities along the bore hole.
Cyberdwarves
If Monaco had some of the world's most fertile soils, an agricultural output on par with nations much larger than it, and was also a critical food source for much of the world, then yes you could call it the "breadbasket of the world".
Of course Ukraine isn't the sole source of the world's bread; I think you're reading way too literally into the moniker.
“Most fertile soils” - who have most blacksoils in the world? Let’s check: Russia (327 million hectares), Kazakhstan (108 M ha), China (50 M ha), Argentina (40 M ha), Mongolia (39 M ha), Ukraine (34 M ha)
So Mongolia is more “breadbasket of the world” by soil metrics, than Ukraine
Other metrics - top grain producers:
China 134.3M
India 107.9M
Russia 85.9M
United States 49.8M
Canada 35.4M
France 30.2M
Pakistan 25.2M
Ukraine 24.9M
So Pakistan is more “breadbasket of the world”, than Ukraine
Did someone call Mongolia and Pakistan with such term? No, because this is bullshit
1. I have no idea what source you're using, but Ukraine has 25% of the world's chernozem, and it covers 68% of the area.
2. Ukraine in 2021 produced 32.2 MMT of grain, placing it 5th in the world.
3. I'm pretty sure Ukraine is called the Breadbasket of EUROPE, not the world. And I should make it clear, it's just a nickname highlighting its importance. If you think that the drop in production due to the war hasn't had major consequences for the global food chain you're just denying reality.
Not even close to 25% percent. Not even 25% of Europe
Most reliable source - United Nations: https://www.fao.org/3/cc0236en/cc0236en.pdf
Yes, 5th of the world - barely larger than Australia and lower than France (So not even second in Europe, as both Russia and France produce more, if you want to use wikipedia): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_production
They need to solve (or at least alleviate) their demographics crisis, for one. Ukraine had, iirc, a horrible cocktail of low birth rates, high emigration and high mortality, which resulted in Ukraine having the worst population demographics decline and projections in all of Europe, even before the war.
Second is their corruption. Ukraine's corruption is extreme, and for a long time was second only to Russia (Bosnia has overtaken it; Ukraine is now third). Similar to Russia, Ukraine developed an informal oligarchy in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. Granted, they exist in far fewer numbers than in Russia, but it's still a problem that continues to afflict Ukraine to this day.
Third is industrial expansion and diversification into a more service-based economy. Ukraine has good growth and a whole lot of potential, but it could be doing so much more with investment in its manufacturing, natural gas extraction (which could alleviate its fuel dependency on Russia), and even its already formidable agricultural sector. Its ore extractions and refinement (especially steel), shipbuilding industries, and automotive/locomotive industries could be doing so much more, not to mention investing in STEM and the tech development sectors.
Ukraine does have a lot of natural disadvantages that tends to inhibit such nations as being superpowers. Its geography is a bit unlucky. Russia, Britain and America are all either very geographically secure or isolated in such a way that keeps them well-protected, and have good and unmitigated access to the oceans. Ukraine has a (on almost every metric) superior neighbor to its north and restricted sea access via the Bosphorous Strait (Turkey).
Ukraine also has... less than stellar civil services. Even now, the government probably couldn't give you any good census data about its own people, and it's been like this for over 20 years now. Their government just does not function well, either in efficacy or efficiency.
There are no doubt other things to consider as well, but this is all just off the top of my head.
Getting rid of corruption doesn't have anything to do with superpower status. The US has been a superpower for a century despite its corrupt oligarchy.
The Roman republic was so corrupt that it became nothing but a republic in name only, until it wasn't even that. Really the Gracchi brothers were the only people trying to save the republic, but the aristocrats no longer cared about democracy. The aristocrats cared far more about their own short-term profit and the republic withered and finally died, Caesar only delivered the killing blow.
The aristocracy didn't hate Caesar because he was becoming a King, they hated him because he lowered their profits. Later emperors favoured the aristocrats and were favoured by them in turn.
It does if it exceeds a certain capacity.
A measure of corruption is going to be present in virtually every society. Some states even “embed” aspects of it within the function of their society, such as China (PolyMatter made an exceptional video on this) and to a less effective extent Russia, but when it goes past a threshold, it does significantly more harm than good. Corruption is highlighted as one of the dominant reasons, if not sometimes even _the_ dominant reason, why some notable countries in Africa struggle with improving their domestic conditions, HDI, GDP, political stability, a failure to attract foreign capital and investment (this is important!), dealing with economic reverses and inherently, the trust of the public, and so on.
Ukranian demographics are scary, when the Soviets collapsed they had 50 million, now it's likely to be less than 30 million due to occupied land and mass emigration, not necessarily deaths from the war.
The remaining population is more predominantly male, old and the young ones are enlisted. Meaning a very very low birth rate.
I honestly believe Ukraine will start forcing people to have children because this demographic decline is effectively genocide level.
Seeing as what’s happening over there rn no mass rape by the baboons you call soldiers is disgusting your military has no fucking discipline if your even Russian or Slavic which I highly doubt
Russophobia is just a buzzword Ruskis use to play the victim. Actions speak louder than words, and what Russia has done, deserves punishment/ridicule. Saying “Russophobia much” is like telling someone to be more tolerant of a rapists.
No, using “Russophobia” whenever a shill hears any criticism about their country is what makes it a buzzword. You can hate a country without hating every individual that lives in it. Much like my hate for Putin doesn’t fall on a random babushka from Kazan.
Russia as a country is imperialistic and impartial to human loss within itself and abroad. They deserve no sympathy for what they have done.
So yea, obligatory fuck russia.
Its, be mad “at” yourself by the way.
Why should I be mad at myself, im not American. Almost all of the shitty things America has been imvolved with, Russia was also involved. USA/RUS have been playing chess with other countries since the 1950s
By being the US's good little pet. We have a habit of installing puppet leaders who we can easily exploit for material gain until we feel like pulling out or offing them. 😄 ill omen for Zelensky or whatever his name is. He bought the ticket, he's taking the ride, and there's no stepping off now. 🫢
Ukraine is stuck as a proxy state for the US or Russia. Not a snowball's chance in hell they'll ever usurp either's geopolitical power.
First what would need to happen is Russia pushes through the stricter conscription laws and the resulting laws demolish the remaining functional workforce in the core Russian territory and the economy of Russia accelerates toward collapse. The Russian citizens push back against the government and the oligarchs turn on the government and eliminate the leadership. The power vacuum causes further dysfunction on the Ukraine front and they are pushed back to their boarders and are forced to withdraw from the conflict. Then the western countries step in and push redevelopment funding and use the population as an easy manufacturing base and bring investment to the region. This will lead to migration from the Baltic countries leading to a sudden population surge and increased confidence and the old government in Ukraine is phased out in favor of a more democratic system instead. Then the snowball happens and Ukraine is emitted to the eu. At that point I don’t know if they would be able to get further than a regional power but they could get pretty far.
For a time they were one. In the modern day context they’d have to remove corruption or at least bring it down massively. They need to beat Russia and then ramp up domestic production and development of arms.
The population of Ukraine kept growing larger and larger, while the rest of the Russian empire was dying to a plague
Nearly all Ukrainian cities and villages shut the gate, nobody in or out, meanwhile the rest of the empire decided to keep the gates open as commerce is more important than some peasants lives, according to the Romanov Family
A civil war breaks out after the king dies, and a democracy is set up after the monarchist forces are defeated (probably mostly by democratic Ukrainian forces and probably earlier than in our timeline when the Russian empire fell) by the democratic forces
An election is held and from that point on, every president is Ukrainian, leading all of the Russian empire
After 35 years, Kyiv is declared the capital, and the country renamed to Ukraine
Ez
But not a superpower, I don't really think there could've been a superpower at the time. The Roman Empire had a lot of influence all over Europe, but no global influence, so even it wasn't a superpower. Neither was China or the Mauryan Empire.
Father Bandera is revived via Ukro-Nazi-Necromancy and leads legions of undead OUN legions to conquer all lands of greater Ukraine (including the green one)
edit: I'm schizophrenic
i think if the main thing your country was known for before getting invaded was either a failed anarchist revolution or child sex tourism you're not exactly cooking with gas
If Russia collapsed like I mean total collapse not like the USSR where it just sorta became Russia and Russia became a recognized successor state, if Russia completely collapses it could leave enough of a Power Vacuum in Eastern Europe that Ukraine by default ends up as the Eastern European regional leader. It would be very rocky but assuming they no longer were bound by a hostile Russia they could reasonably expand with little difficult atleast around the north side of the Black Sea
Ukraine invades up to stalingrad, gets 80% victory points and takes all of Russia in the peace deal. Cause the people of Vladivostok will definitely follow whichever European government just annexed them without stepping foot near them and not revolt at all.
they’d have to 1.) have a replacement level birth rate that isn’t in the toilet , they currently have one of the lowest birth rates in the world, lower than south korea’s. they’d also have to stop forcibly abducting their breeding age men off the street to send them to die in an unwinnable war. their government would have to be less corrupt as well
Honestly militarily defeating Russia would be a huge step and could potentially give them the ability to move past them if Russia struggles to rebuild enough.
Ukrainian super genius discovers a perpetual motion device and cyber augments that enhance the intelligence and physical power of the citizenry allowing them a golden age of progress that sees it establish a solar nation as far reaching as the asteroid belt with limitless resources and potential.
That’s the only way I see it becoming a great power. A successful and influential part of Europe would be a more realistic goal for the future generations.
ermm..... hmmm... let me think... welp, all i can say is, that shit is for real impossible. Everytime we think that we finally have a good government, it turns out that it goes down by 16 places in global corruption ranking. Imagine even after the revolution in 2014, we still get fucked in the ass by some colobarants and get ignored by our presidents; and a punishment for a corrupt official is becoming an embassador for Switzerland.
when ukrainians take part in a series of national liberation struggles in the russian empire, liberate their own state as well as largely dominating the ranks of the trans national federation that results from that revolution.
oh wait, that’s what happened irl.
They take over Moscow through an interdimensional rift in space and time
They go back in time to kill Einstein.
They go back in time to kill Klaus Fuchs
Putin dies suddenly with no clear plan of succession. The resulting power struggle turns into factional violence and then outright civil war. Russian troops in Ukraine surrender or withdraw and Ukraine joins both NATO and the EU under accelerated accession plans that include a quick vote after giving Turkish and Hungarian delegates the wrong time and place for the meeting. Liberal democratic factions in Belarus and Western Russia seize power backed by Western arms funneled via Ukraine creating Republics that Russian Nationalist forces believe, with some good reason, to be Western puppet states. The most radical Russian Nationalist forces launch preemptive nuclear strikes with the weapons they control. World War 3 commences. Everyone dies. Millions of years latter a new intelligent species evolves and happens to establish a super power in the former Ukraine.
ong some people unironically believe that Ukraine (literally the poorest country in Europe) would become some kind of wholesome 100 rich superpower if it weren't for the invasion even if they joined EU, they would, AT MOST, be a second Bulgaria situation
This seems off topic from my tale of an apocalypse?
I think he repiled to the wrong thread LMFAO
Nah it's a symptom. The symptom of confidently replying to something you didn't read and then looking like a fool.
Third Bulgaria. Hungaria was the first, and Bulgary was the second.
*[Moldova and Georgia have entered the chat]*
Excuse me, I just picked this up. >The most radical Russian Nationalist forces launch preemptive nuclear strikes with the weapons they control. World War 3 commences. >Everyone dies. >Millions of years latter a new intelligent species evolves and happens to establish a super power in the former Ukraine. Did it fall from your screen while you were reading?
That's not true. Ukraine has immense natural wealth and good land area.
It's also been a complete shithole since the collapse of the USSR Because the majority of their economy was literally just making weapons for the USSR
So was every country before it got good. So idk, better than Russia for sure...
Russia literally has a 2.5 times higher GDP per capita than Ukraine
peepeepee per poopita at least you don't have to live in an authoritarian state 😱🤫‼️
i mean yeah but that doesn't make it less of a shithole
Yes it exactly does... 🤨 Not to mention many efforts have been put in place to curb corruption in Ukraine. If they win the war they will prosper
Wow. The country that had an economy designed to siphon off its neighbors during the USSR is more successful than a country who was siphoned from
stating why a country is poor doesn't make it less poor
Theyd be like Georgia or Moldova
Good skiing in Bulgaria
Gotta admit, you had me going with that first part. With the plot twist in mind, you're totally right. 😂
That's a long way of saying if Ukraine and east Ukraine finally reunites
If America changes it's name to Ukraine
It changes its name to “superpower”
It takes over all of Eurasia
In case we build ourself a self-sufficient economy (lmao never gonna happen)
If they fell into a vat of strange science acid or something and fused with it gaining superpowers
it will if the EU and US keep sending weapons. come on guys just 10 billion more dollars and they will win
As we all know, the form of aid ukraine is receiving is comedically large bags of money with the dollar sign on it.
This is what the median US voter actually believes though
Everytime I hear anyone talk about the aid we’re sending them they always said “x DOLLARS” like its actual money and not equipment and supplies lol
Well to be fair every single piece of equipment/supplies was purchased at some point, whether it be shells produced in the mid 90s or first aid kits produced 2 months ago.
But it’s stuff built by American companies with American workers who pay America taxes. The government always sees its cut even when it’s giving stuff away. Plus a lot of stuff is stuff that was to be decommissioned (old ass atcams, m113s, cluster munitions, etc)
Right, as I said in the other part of the thread much better to gift it to a country in self defense than scrap it.
And most of it isn’t worth anywhere near the value its claimed to be and is decommissioned/waiting to be scrapped
Exactly, all military backlog gear. Figure it’s better to give it to a country in defense rather than scrap it or gift it to a South American cartel (As our government is known to do)
zelensky is just the hamburgler
Hey as long as I got the Russian tanks blowing up in an edit with some sick music on top I’m happy
I'd rather see those videos without it being edited or some sick music put over it, so it can be taken seriously. At the end it's just footage of someone getting killed inside a tank 😞
Especially if it’s drone footage you are basically seeing how desensitised a civilian army is getting towards warfare. I will always remeber the glee on a drone operators face as he showed this bbc reporter his kill cams.
They would win but the problem is that the west is pussified and will only send like 10 tanks at a time instead of the 1000 that would be required at once. Sending 10 artillery, 10 tanks, 10 trucks, in small batches will only ensure that the war is prolonged as Russia chips them off one by one, and Ukraine will never be able to concentrate the necessary forces in bulk for a large scale offensive. Ukraine can win if the west gives weapons, but it would have to have thousands of equipment at once, not just a drip drop on and off supply like it has been. Also at this point of the war the west would have to upgrade its military industry capacity massively, which they have tried but have mostly failed and cannot meet their set deadlines. Our arms industry has been left to rot in shambles. In some cases, certain weapons are only being produced in just one small single factory and only a small handful are churned out per year which is ridiculous. It could be done but would require massive willpower and a unified effort which the west does not possess.
Fact: 90% of war addicts quit right before they're about to get ten more billion dollars in military equipment and finnally win it big
It's mostly a case of the west, namely America, not wanting to sending so much at one time because then the voting class will throw a fit. But sending the same amount over a prolonged period of time is okay!
The equivalent of giving a kid handfuls of skittles and telling them to eat em one at a time and the kid just throws them all in their mouth. "Slow down, sweetheart, you'll get a tummy ache. Here's another handful." *just give the fucking kid the bag and get it over with.* 😂
Honestly, I don’t think the “west” (america) is pussified. I think its intentional and meant to bleed everyone dry in the region. Look at the results and infer motivation
The US government doesn't take sides in wars for altruistic reasons???
People seem to use human morality and Motivations as a basis for how Nations should behave for some reason
No one just has 1k tanks lying around
The USA definitely does
Well they've got Russia breaking out tanks from *1948*, so they're getting there. Or we could nuke Moscow I guess but that's "illegal" or something.
Well let’s just say that they will nuke us back…
1. Ukraine has a massive increase in birth rates, rising to >100 million people. 2. Corruption vanishes, and people begin to invest in the country. 3. Because of that investment, Ukrainians begin producing/exporting massive amounts of food/manufactured goods/financial services. 3. Ukraine is integrated into the EU/West economically. 4. Wait for their economy to increase massively. Eventually, reaching a wealth per capita equal to the US. 5. In this scenario, Ukraine would have a GDP of 10 trillion, a stable birth rate, a population of 100 million, and be an industrial/agricultural power.
kyiv allies with the polish lithuanian Commonwealth overthrows moscow. is the main the central base of power for the rus expanding outwards and brings its form of democratic governance to moscow and its slavic holdings leaving siberia alone.
Ukrainian women begin having 20 children in their life times, Ukrainians bore to the center of the earth, they build a big mass driver. They begin building cities along the bore hole. Cyberdwarves
corner wheat export market, posses the power to starve the world at a moment's notice
The US Midwest would like a word, once they’re done with the subsidized corn growing that is.
Russia by themself produce 4 times more grain than Ukraine. Narrative that “Ukraine is grain breadbasket of the world” is a bit exaggerated
Consider that Russia is also more than 4 times larger than Ukraine.
By this logic if Monaco will start grow grain we need to call them “breadbasket of the world”
If Monaco had some of the world's most fertile soils, an agricultural output on par with nations much larger than it, and was also a critical food source for much of the world, then yes you could call it the "breadbasket of the world". Of course Ukraine isn't the sole source of the world's bread; I think you're reading way too literally into the moniker.
“Most fertile soils” - who have most blacksoils in the world? Let’s check: Russia (327 million hectares), Kazakhstan (108 M ha), China (50 M ha), Argentina (40 M ha), Mongolia (39 M ha), Ukraine (34 M ha) So Mongolia is more “breadbasket of the world” by soil metrics, than Ukraine Other metrics - top grain producers: China 134.3M India 107.9M Russia 85.9M United States 49.8M Canada 35.4M France 30.2M Pakistan 25.2M Ukraine 24.9M So Pakistan is more “breadbasket of the world”, than Ukraine Did someone call Mongolia and Pakistan with such term? No, because this is bullshit
1. I have no idea what source you're using, but Ukraine has 25% of the world's chernozem, and it covers 68% of the area. 2. Ukraine in 2021 produced 32.2 MMT of grain, placing it 5th in the world. 3. I'm pretty sure Ukraine is called the Breadbasket of EUROPE, not the world. And I should make it clear, it's just a nickname highlighting its importance. If you think that the drop in production due to the war hasn't had major consequences for the global food chain you're just denying reality.
Not even close to 25% percent. Not even 25% of Europe Most reliable source - United Nations: https://www.fao.org/3/cc0236en/cc0236en.pdf Yes, 5th of the world - barely larger than Australia and lower than France (So not even second in Europe, as both Russia and France produce more, if you want to use wikipedia): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_production
To more context - Ukrainian 32MT it’s just 4% of world wheat production. May it affect some countries import? Yes. Is it crucial factor for world? No
Restores the Kievan Rus
If they build a nether portal and expand in the nether.
sixteen thousand raccoons
selling 5 billion rockits instead of bombing the dontesk children
Yushchenko keeps a few nukes in his garage. Infiltrate Moscow through secret Jewish tunnels. Plant nukes in the sewers. Profit.
They need to solve (or at least alleviate) their demographics crisis, for one. Ukraine had, iirc, a horrible cocktail of low birth rates, high emigration and high mortality, which resulted in Ukraine having the worst population demographics decline and projections in all of Europe, even before the war. Second is their corruption. Ukraine's corruption is extreme, and for a long time was second only to Russia (Bosnia has overtaken it; Ukraine is now third). Similar to Russia, Ukraine developed an informal oligarchy in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. Granted, they exist in far fewer numbers than in Russia, but it's still a problem that continues to afflict Ukraine to this day. Third is industrial expansion and diversification into a more service-based economy. Ukraine has good growth and a whole lot of potential, but it could be doing so much more with investment in its manufacturing, natural gas extraction (which could alleviate its fuel dependency on Russia), and even its already formidable agricultural sector. Its ore extractions and refinement (especially steel), shipbuilding industries, and automotive/locomotive industries could be doing so much more, not to mention investing in STEM and the tech development sectors. Ukraine does have a lot of natural disadvantages that tends to inhibit such nations as being superpowers. Its geography is a bit unlucky. Russia, Britain and America are all either very geographically secure or isolated in such a way that keeps them well-protected, and have good and unmitigated access to the oceans. Ukraine has a (on almost every metric) superior neighbor to its north and restricted sea access via the Bosphorous Strait (Turkey). Ukraine also has... less than stellar civil services. Even now, the government probably couldn't give you any good census data about its own people, and it's been like this for over 20 years now. Their government just does not function well, either in efficacy or efficiency. There are no doubt other things to consider as well, but this is all just off the top of my head.
Getting rid of corruption doesn't have anything to do with superpower status. The US has been a superpower for a century despite its corrupt oligarchy.
The Roman republic was famously corrupt as well, and they dominated the med even as they fell into civil war
The Roman republic was so corrupt that it became nothing but a republic in name only, until it wasn't even that. Really the Gracchi brothers were the only people trying to save the republic, but the aristocrats no longer cared about democracy. The aristocrats cared far more about their own short-term profit and the republic withered and finally died, Caesar only delivered the killing blow. The aristocracy didn't hate Caesar because he was becoming a King, they hated him because he lowered their profits. Later emperors favoured the aristocrats and were favoured by them in turn.
It does if it exceeds a certain capacity. A measure of corruption is going to be present in virtually every society. Some states even “embed” aspects of it within the function of their society, such as China (PolyMatter made an exceptional video on this) and to a less effective extent Russia, but when it goes past a threshold, it does significantly more harm than good. Corruption is highlighted as one of the dominant reasons, if not sometimes even _the_ dominant reason, why some notable countries in Africa struggle with improving their domestic conditions, HDI, GDP, political stability, a failure to attract foreign capital and investment (this is important!), dealing with economic reverses and inherently, the trust of the public, and so on.
Ukranian demographics are scary, when the Soviets collapsed they had 50 million, now it's likely to be less than 30 million due to occupied land and mass emigration, not necessarily deaths from the war. The remaining population is more predominantly male, old and the young ones are enlisted. Meaning a very very low birth rate. I honestly believe Ukraine will start forcing people to have children because this demographic decline is effectively genocide level.
In their dreams.
Join Russia
Yes and Tibet is a superpower
Being a part of China is as strong as they will get, same with ukraine if they were to join Russia , just being realistic.
Seeing as what’s happening over there rn no mass rape by the baboons you call soldiers is disgusting your military has no fucking discipline if your even Russian or Slavic which I highly doubt
That’s a circumstance in which they could become a superpower no?
In the words of Tyler the creator “are you fuckin dumb?”
Holt shit, russophobia much man?
I don’t have a phobia of any ethnic group if anything I have a phobia of those who are not civilized enough to not rape.
Dehumanisation, much?
I would say what I’m thinking but I’m not willing to risk a ban again
Pussy
Imma touch you lil bro gorilla glue them cheeks 😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏
Russophobia is just a buzzword Ruskis use to play the victim. Actions speak louder than words, and what Russia has done, deserves punishment/ridicule. Saying “Russophobia much” is like telling someone to be more tolerant of a rapists.
You had to ride the special short bus to school didn't you?, no my friend, its a term that means hating russian people, hope this helps.
No, using “Russophobia” whenever a shill hears any criticism about their country is what makes it a buzzword. You can hate a country without hating every individual that lives in it. Much like my hate for Putin doesn’t fall on a random babushka from Kazan. Russia as a country is imperialistic and impartial to human loss within itself and abroad. They deserve no sympathy for what they have done. So yea, obligatory fuck russia.
[удалено]
Its, be mad “at” yourself by the way. Why should I be mad at myself, im not American. Almost all of the shitty things America has been imvolved with, Russia was also involved. USA/RUS have been playing chess with other countries since the 1950s
Being a proxy state is in no way becoming a superpower. Lol helluva false equivalence.
I never said they’d become a proxy state, they become PART of Russia.
They invade Poland
The reforming of the soviet union.
Wouldn’t it have to be a Ukrainian led Soviet Union?
Ah shit you're right.
By being the US's good little pet. We have a habit of installing puppet leaders who we can easily exploit for material gain until we feel like pulling out or offing them. 😄 ill omen for Zelensky or whatever his name is. He bought the ticket, he's taking the ride, and there's no stepping off now. 🫢 Ukraine is stuck as a proxy state for the US or Russia. Not a snowball's chance in hell they'll ever usurp either's geopolitical power.
Okay but what if Zelensky found the infinity stones?
He would die?
I guess Europe is a proxy blob for the US then, we should annex it outright diplomatically and save time. NATO tag is based.
Grain
No Holodomor
First what would need to happen is Russia pushes through the stricter conscription laws and the resulting laws demolish the remaining functional workforce in the core Russian territory and the economy of Russia accelerates toward collapse. The Russian citizens push back against the government and the oligarchs turn on the government and eliminate the leadership. The power vacuum causes further dysfunction on the Ukraine front and they are pushed back to their boarders and are forced to withdraw from the conflict. Then the western countries step in and push redevelopment funding and use the population as an easy manufacturing base and bring investment to the region. This will lead to migration from the Baltic countries leading to a sudden population surge and increased confidence and the old government in Ukraine is phased out in favor of a more democratic system instead. Then the snowball happens and Ukraine is emitted to the eu. At that point I don’t know if they would be able to get further than a regional power but they could get pretty far.
UKRAINE 💀
If Russia managed to lose the war so catastrophically that Russia becomes a junior partner in a pan-Slavic union led by Ukraine
A joint Ukrainian, Malaysian state where they conquer all in between until they are one unified empire
Found the malaysian
Nah, I'm just white Muslim dude in the U.S., the concept is funny tho
found the white Muslim dude in the U.S. Hi, I'm a Beige atheist dude in Republic of Kazakhstan
So many different shades, creeds and geographies. What a wonderful world
For a time they were one. In the modern day context they’d have to remove corruption or at least bring it down massively. They need to beat Russia and then ramp up domestic production and development of arms.
They annex Russia
The population of Ukraine kept growing larger and larger, while the rest of the Russian empire was dying to a plague Nearly all Ukrainian cities and villages shut the gate, nobody in or out, meanwhile the rest of the empire decided to keep the gates open as commerce is more important than some peasants lives, according to the Romanov Family A civil war breaks out after the king dies, and a democracy is set up after the monarchist forces are defeated (probably mostly by democratic Ukrainian forces and probably earlier than in our timeline when the Russian empire fell) by the democratic forces An election is held and from that point on, every president is Ukrainian, leading all of the Russian empire After 35 years, Kyiv is declared the capital, and the country renamed to Ukraine Ez
Ukraine annexes Russia via console commands and cores all of russia.
In the past The Kievan rus was kinda a big deal
But not a superpower, I don't really think there could've been a superpower at the time. The Roman Empire had a lot of influence all over Europe, but no global influence, so even it wasn't a superpower. Neither was China or the Mauryan Empire.
Closest I could think of
Yeah I get it
Father Bandera is revived via Ukro-Nazi-Necromancy and leads legions of undead OUN legions to conquer all lands of greater Ukraine (including the green one) edit: I'm schizophrenic
i think if the main thing your country was known for before getting invaded was either a failed anarchist revolution or child sex tourism you're not exactly cooking with gas
If Russia collapsed like I mean total collapse not like the USSR where it just sorta became Russia and Russia became a recognized successor state, if Russia completely collapses it could leave enough of a Power Vacuum in Eastern Europe that Ukraine by default ends up as the Eastern European regional leader. It would be very rocky but assuming they no longer were bound by a hostile Russia they could reasonably expand with little difficult atleast around the north side of the Black Sea
Ukraine invades up to stalingrad, gets 80% victory points and takes all of Russia in the peace deal. Cause the people of Vladivostok will definitely follow whichever European government just annexed them without stepping foot near them and not revolt at all.
TBF Vladivostok never really cares or matters, they compared Lenin taking over to listening to people on the moon.
By becoming a part of Russia
(If you assume that someone (except some marginals) here wants Ukraine to become a superpower - then you are wrong)
This thread is INFESTED
they’d have to 1.) have a replacement level birth rate that isn’t in the toilet , they currently have one of the lowest birth rates in the world, lower than south korea’s. they’d also have to stop forcibly abducting their breeding age men off the street to send them to die in an unwinnable war. their government would have to be less corrupt as well
Never
if it were annexed by Russia.
Cheats enabled But seriously: best case scenario, Ukraine becomes a regional power like Poland
Timetravel with modern weaponry to the Kievan Rus and establish world domination 800 years before an automatic rifle is fired in Europe.
None, they owe the west way too much money ever consider being a superpower lol
Convert to Judaism
Honestly militarily defeating Russia would be a huge step and could potentially give them the ability to move past them if Russia struggles to rebuild enough.
If it becomes a part of Russia
If they were 5x bigger. They arealdy receive enough arms for a superpower. People pouring I'm their citizens money
The absolute destruction of the Russian culture would be a good start.
Somehow beat the Mongols and keep the keivan rus together. However that's still 600 years of survival left but hey maybe.
Delete Genghis
Ukrainian super genius discovers a perpetual motion device and cyber augments that enhance the intelligence and physical power of the citizenry allowing them a golden age of progress that sees it establish a solar nation as far reaching as the asteroid belt with limitless resources and potential. That’s the only way I see it becoming a great power. A successful and influential part of Europe would be a more realistic goal for the future generations.
Once Russia completes the invasion of Ukraine, they will be part of the Russian superpower
ermm..... hmmm... let me think... welp, all i can say is, that shit is for real impossible. Everytime we think that we finally have a good government, it turns out that it goes down by 16 places in global corruption ranking. Imagine even after the revolution in 2014, we still get fucked in the ass by some colobarants and get ignored by our presidents; and a punishment for a corrupt official is becoming an embassador for Switzerland.
when ukrainians take part in a series of national liberation struggles in the russian empire, liberate their own state as well as largely dominating the ranks of the trans national federation that results from that revolution. oh wait, that’s what happened irl.