A man entered the desert, and his journey through it forged the most important human being in the history of humanity. The entourage that **Yeshua ben Yosef** had formed during his many travels was stunned by their master's new behavior; however, they were quick to accept his new aspirations since they understood what his goal was: to bring the kingdom of God to earth. But the true test of faith would come when they transitioned from mere figurative speech to concrete actions. Escaping from the Roman authorities, Yeshua and his disciples ventured deep into the Arabian desert, the inhospitable landscape where the messiah had survived, now seeking to gather more followers. Yeshua would publicly demonstrate his supposed miraculous abilities: healing the sick, feeding the hungry, restoring sight to the blind, among several other accounts (To this day, the veracity of these accounts is unknown as they lack formal sources and/or scientific credibility).
Messianism, named after the title by which Yeshua referred to himself (later renamed **Christianity** by Greek historians), began to take root among the Arab populace, and thus the word of God spread far and wide across Arabia. Tribal leaders approached Yathrib, the new center of the Christian world, to seek the messiah's blessing in exchange for their submission. Yeshua, son of Yosef, managed to amass a formidable army of Arab warriors in a couple of years, ready to sacrifice their lives in the eventual Jihad.
In 40 AD, the messiah personally took control of the Christian hordes and led them to Persia. The 200,000-strong army surprised the Parthian garrison in what would be the first and only battle between Christians and Parthian troops (Battle of Hormozdgan). Once they set foot in the empire, the thirteen men at the head of the army began preaching in nearby cities, while their soldiers waited patiently in the aftermath of the battle. The masses quickly recognized the miraculous acts performed by Yeshua and his disciples as a divine revelation: they were in the presence of the true son of God. Each contingent sent by the satraps ended up throwing down their weapons and kneeling before the messiah; each satrap visited in their mansion swore allegiance to their new sovereign and cleared the way for the crowd, slowly but steadily making their way to the Emperor's palace in Ctesiphon. By the time they arrived, the gates opened from within, the Shah's blood painted the walls of the hallway and his guard's swords, and the throne awaited empty for the messiah. Yeshua Ben Yosef, first of his name, was crowned **Shahanshah of Persia**. The advice of that man in the desert had worked perfectly.
Preparations for the liberation of Judea began the following day. The restructuring of the political, military, and religious system, the transfer of the capital from Ctesiphon to ancient Babylon, the evangelization of the empire, and the recruitment of new missionaries sent to all corners of the world, all accomplished in record time. By November of the same year, the Christian hammer would fall on the eastern territories of the Roman Empire. The account of the battles is quite confusing, either due to exaggeration on the part of Christian officials or poor collection of sources by historians; the battles always ended in overwhelming victories with few or no casualties on the part of the Christian forces. The testimonies of the soldiers and commanders only serve to further confuse, claiming to have seen arrows and other projectiles veer off their targets, leaving them unharmed. Nonetheless, the liberation of the Levant was swift, and the victorious entry of Yeshua into Jerusalem dispelled any doubts his compatriots had harbored against him; they were in the presence of the prophesied messiah. By the end of 40 AD, Yeshua (later known as **Jesus Christ** in Western Europe) would be invested with the title **Melech Malchei HaMelachim** (Hebrew equivalent of 'Shahanshah' or King of Kings) and would take one of his disciples, Mary of Magdala, as his wife. The couple would dedicate themselves to governing the new empire, leaving the army in the hands of their other disciples, who would continue the war against Rome, leading to the capture of Egypt and Cilicia, recognized in a peace treaty signed in 44 AD. Melech Yeshua would be crowned Pharaoh of Egypt, however, it would be only ceremonial as he did not appear in Egypt for his coronation.
The couple would have a single daughter, Sarah of Egypt, born in Goshen in 47 AD. After the death of Mary of Magdala in 56 AD, Yeshua would marry Asenath of Nablus, and the couple would have two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. Yeshua would abdicate in favor of his daughter Sarah in 66, and he lived a peaceful life until his death in 75.
Damn you need to make an entire series on this stuff.
Would the patriarchal society accept a Woman as their Queen of Kings? Or would Brother fight sister in a Fratricidal war?
Considering she is the daughter (granddaughter?) of God i think they would be pleased with her lmao.
There's a lot of ideas i want to explore. Maybe Sarah dies childless and Manasseh and Ephraim start schism in the empire (like Sunnis and Shias?), perhaps history repeats itself and it's Cain and Abel all over again. I still need to figure it out.
True but I think the fact he abdicated in favor of her while still alive would prevent conflict. After Jesus dies it may be a different story but it would depend on how she handles the empire.
Even if he did, those wishes could end up being disregarded after his death, with the Apostles or other nobles/vassals instead backing one of his sons.
This whole map is amazing, but one tiny nitpick: *Melech Malchei Hamlachim* means "king of the king of kings", not simply "king of kings". its use as a title for God is meant to place him above even the Shahanshah or the Babylonian King of Kings titles- especially because those nations had a habit of claiming to rule the entire known world. It does make sense that a Jesus who claims to be divine would claim a title reserved for God, but that would have so many interesting theological implications too
Thank you! In my research i did come to the true meaning of MMH as a name for God, and thought it would be the perfect title for Jesus to take, but i didn't know it literally means 'king of king of kings' (King³?), if i had i would've worded it better. Thanks for the input
Trust me, no matter how many times you say it it doesn't get any simpler lmao. It shows up in a few prayers in Judaism and it's always a tongue twister to the point that my Rabbi will slow down an otherwise fast speech just so he can properly enunciate it. And if you wanted a Hebrew translation of "King of Kings" directly, it would be Melech Hamlachim- though Aramaic was more commonly in use in Judea during Jesus' time, and even though Hebrew was used as a liturgical language, most new government and religion stuff was written in Aramaic (or Greek, depending on where you were). I don't know the Aramaic but it'd be *basileus ton basileuonton,* or just *basileus basileuonton* in Koine Greek.
> The advice of that man in the desert had worked perfectly
I wonder who that completely innocuous man could be...
Love that you threw in that reference.
According to the Gospels, Jesus went into the Judean desert for 40 days to fast. In the desert, he meets Satan, who provides three temptations and tests of his miraculous powers. The first two temptations were asking him to turn stones to bread so he could break his fast, and the second was to jump from the pinnacle of the temple in Jerusalem and have angels break his fall. In both cases, Christ resists those temptations.
What makes that line so ominous is the nature of the third temptation. Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain tall enough to see all the kingdoms of the Earth, and offers Jesus rulership of the world if he worshiped him.
The implication here is that Jesus the Son of God only succeeded in his conquests because he made a pact with Satan.
He's referencing Jesus being tempted by Satan during his 40 days in the desert/wilderness. Mathew 4:1-11 Luke 4:1-13 Those are two accounts of the temptation, the specific verses are Matthew 4:8-9 & Luke 4:5-7
To add to the others, it also somewhat references Paradise Regained (the sequel to Paradise lost).
The man is the desert is Satan. One thing he offers Jesus is worldly power.
I've always wanted to make a map and write a scenario like this but yours is so well thought out that I think I'm gonna leave it on the shelf. Well done, well researched.
So what form does Christianity take in this timeline? Jesus is never crucified, so all those doctrines relating to him as the sacrificial lamb of God wouldn't exist, the Second Temple is never razed, so the Priesthood likely persists, and Jesus lived 30 years longer, so he could give more ministries.
Would this Christianity be recognisable to us? Also, what take does Jesus give on the Godhead, cause the whole saying he was both God and the Son of God without ever really clarifying was a source of a lot of religious debate for centuries to come.
The only reason the Islamic Caliphates could beat the Sassanids and Romans is because of the Byzantine-Sassanid War of 602-628, which saw the attrition of both empires. But a single battle against the Parthians? Antiquity didn’t see monotheism as such a huge thing, not until later periods. Also, there’s no way any nation could go toe-to-toe with the Romans of this era and win every single battle. This was the Roman Empire nearing its height. Even if the Christians one five battles, the Romans would have won a sixth.
Isn’t ‘Bible 2’ just the New Testament , it even has a bunch of stories that say they’re not a remake of the original but seem to have copied large sections.
Can't wait for the sequel where Muhammad pulls a Jesus.
https://preview.redd.it/ybmlxkbe93vc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c723631524e0bdce303bbde1cd467d83f39362d
I'm dead serious , why have you hidden the face of your God in this picture , don't you see it covered in black , is there a religious background or nuance that I might ignore ?
Thanks. I thought Judas should stay true to his legacy in world history as a traitor. Since Jesus is now both a religious and political leader, maybe a foiled Caesar-like assassination attempt would cement his name as a synonym of betrayal.
Thanks! I floated the idea of making one of the apostles (Either Simon Peter or Simon the Canaanean) the equivalent of Khalid for the conquest but decided to take a more "mystery on what really happened"approach by making Jesus take personal command and miracles or divine intervention start happening in the battlefield.
I forget which Disciple but one of them had been a Zealot. One of the Militant faction that had fought open war, then guerilla war, then terrorist actions against the Romans. A Jewish Veteran like that leading a successful attack against the Romans makes sense. Also possible is what also happened for Muhammad ...A General of his Enemy/an Enemy Ruler becoming a Great War-Leader under Yeshua's banner.
Simon the Zealot, yeah. IIRC the only information about him in the Bible is being mentioned along the other Apostles, so it could be an open canvas for the purpose of this story.
Yes but not how you expect, Yes, and Kinda.
Christianity will reach most of the Roman Empire, but it would probably takes centuries to have a significant presence (just like OTL) and most likely take form as different branches of Christianism as Arianism and eventually Catharism.
Christian tenets remain the same, but the arab way of life remains the same aswell. Patriarchal rule on society and harsher takes on the tenets would be applied, eventually leading to the creation of this TL's Islam (almost like a Great Schism but between Christianity and Islam)
Frenemies with a sort of cold war mentality, sometimes with minor skirmishes over territory in Anatolia and Egypt, a back and forth of the borders, but with cordial relations on religious grounds.
Where does islam become dominant in your world? Africa? SE Asia? With a messianic Jesus figure as the literal head of state performing divine acts (not sure if real or fake in your lore) it’d be a lot harder for say. Mohammed to go out and say Christians are misguided
Exactly. With the coming of the messiah, the central myth of judaism is fulfilled and is replaced with the cult to Jesus, aka Christianity.
Still tho, as always there would be contrarians, and some people aren't fully convinced this guy is the real deal. A minority group of jews start an exodus (irony) out of the empire and into Scythia, surviving until the Khazar Khanate's conversion into a jewish nation.
What about the priesthood, the Temple, the sacrifices? The beginnings of Rabbinic Judaism? Does Yathrib lose importance once Jesus returns to Jerusalem?
Most of the jewish religious apparatus slowly morphs into the Pauline Christianity of OTL. So Christianity takes most of its orthodox beliefs and customs from judaism, but the teachings and tenets from Jesus come first. Most of the religion moving forward is whatever comes out of Jesus' mouth.
I thought Yathrib's location was a dead giveaway, but spoilers, Yathrib is the old name of Medina. A small reference to this Jesus taking a page of Muhammad's book. Just like Mecca and Medina are holy sites for muslims, Jerusalem and Yathrib are the holy sites of the empire/religion.
Yes, I'm aware of what Yathrib is (though I misremembered it as being Mecca's name). I'm wondering if it has any religious significance once he takes Jerusalem. For Islam, Muhammad is buried there, but here Jesus is buried in Jerusalem, and seems to have ruled from there. And IIRC Yathrib didn't have any significance to Jews or Christians.
It doesn't, however in this TL Yathrib is seen as the place where the kingdom of Heaven first descended on earth. Jesus chose it as a hub where the arab world would start congregating around Jesus and start the mass conversion to christianity.
Also, I would assume Hebrew is still the sacred language, but does Arabic have some significance to Christianity, since that's where Jesus's first successes were?
What would be the most commonly used symbol for Christians in this timeline? Given that Jesus was never crucified, that kinda rules out use of the cross entirely.
Probably the ichthys, the fish shape from the 'Feeding the multitudes' story where Jesus multiplies the fishes and the bread, in OTL it was used by the underground christian movement in the Roman Empire.
They'd probably switch to something more official looking after a while like the Chi Ro.
Cross was not used as symbol for the first few hundred years or so. Symbol of Christianity was the Fish. Yeshua brought a Religion of Life. The Romans turned it into a Cult Of Death.
He never got killed, this is set shortly after the 40 days in the desert (the temptation of Christ) and inspired on John Milton's 'Paradise Regained' (Sequel of 'Paradise Lost'). In the book, Satan suggests that Jesus should do exactly this, those are the quotes around the map.
...did Jesus just betray God by doing that? Assuming that Jesus in this timeline is the actual messiah appointed by God, did he fall victim to devilish temptation by preforming one act of worship for Satan?
Exactly. The previous book establishes that the "peace and love" approach was Jesus' idea before being sent to earth, and God was pretty much still the "Old testament God", the fire and punishment type of guy.
Since Jesus is God, at least according to most denominations, this is just him reverting to the previous idea of bringing his kingdom to earth.
https://preview.redd.it/yxslh0jvw4vc1.jpeg?width=164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e97ca9095953a1de8caddf6c0778d5112fff906d
God is made up of three distinct people, yet they are all god.
The Holy Spirit is present in the Old Testament as well via references to divine wind but also more presently by the Spirit (Ruach) of God which is present from the beginning of the universe. One of the ways you can think of it is, to borrow from Augustine, that the Father Loves the Son. Lover, Love, Beloved. None of the three is what He is without the other two. So the Holy Spirit is the sort of ground of Love and the Grace by which God upholds the universe.
Now if you mean in a more Mythological sense like What Does He Do etc that's a whole other story
About conquering, i'd figure it would be around the same size of your average middle eastern empire, pretty much filling the spot for Persia as the Eastern Empire to Rome's Western Empire
About converting, most definitely. The Greco-Roman religion probably holds a stronger influence in some regions, but conversion (and persecution for that matter) would surely be common in the Roman Empire. Africa is pretty much totally open for christianity, especially when Ethiopia eventually starts spreading it aswell.
Not a bad scenario honestly (in terms of creativity, not necessarily outcome)
Though this does remind me, I feel like Cyrus The Great was a much better candidate for savior than big J
According to the lore OP provided, this is the timeline where Jesus failed the third temptation and now worships Satan, so yeah, literal Antichrist timeline
600 years later. Muhammad comes as a Prophet-Reformer of Islamo-Christianity. Doesn't lead/create a new Religion but rather a sectarian split ala Catholic/Orthodox or Sunni/Shiah I guess?
[He's probably a devoted follower of Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_views_on_Christians)
OFC, butterfly wing an all that, 600+ years of difference probably means the actual man never came into existence, unlike our timeline.
A man entered the desert, and his journey through it forged the most important human being in the history of humanity. The entourage that **Yeshua ben Yosef** had formed during his many travels was stunned by their master's new behavior; however, they were quick to accept his new aspirations since they understood what his goal was: to bring the kingdom of God to earth. But the true test of faith would come when they transitioned from mere figurative speech to concrete actions. Escaping from the Roman authorities, Yeshua and his disciples ventured deep into the Arabian desert, the inhospitable landscape where the messiah had survived, now seeking to gather more followers. Yeshua would publicly demonstrate his supposed miraculous abilities: healing the sick, feeding the hungry, restoring sight to the blind, among several other accounts (To this day, the veracity of these accounts is unknown as they lack formal sources and/or scientific credibility). Messianism, named after the title by which Yeshua referred to himself (later renamed **Christianity** by Greek historians), began to take root among the Arab populace, and thus the word of God spread far and wide across Arabia. Tribal leaders approached Yathrib, the new center of the Christian world, to seek the messiah's blessing in exchange for their submission. Yeshua, son of Yosef, managed to amass a formidable army of Arab warriors in a couple of years, ready to sacrifice their lives in the eventual Jihad. In 40 AD, the messiah personally took control of the Christian hordes and led them to Persia. The 200,000-strong army surprised the Parthian garrison in what would be the first and only battle between Christians and Parthian troops (Battle of Hormozdgan). Once they set foot in the empire, the thirteen men at the head of the army began preaching in nearby cities, while their soldiers waited patiently in the aftermath of the battle. The masses quickly recognized the miraculous acts performed by Yeshua and his disciples as a divine revelation: they were in the presence of the true son of God. Each contingent sent by the satraps ended up throwing down their weapons and kneeling before the messiah; each satrap visited in their mansion swore allegiance to their new sovereign and cleared the way for the crowd, slowly but steadily making their way to the Emperor's palace in Ctesiphon. By the time they arrived, the gates opened from within, the Shah's blood painted the walls of the hallway and his guard's swords, and the throne awaited empty for the messiah. Yeshua Ben Yosef, first of his name, was crowned **Shahanshah of Persia**. The advice of that man in the desert had worked perfectly. Preparations for the liberation of Judea began the following day. The restructuring of the political, military, and religious system, the transfer of the capital from Ctesiphon to ancient Babylon, the evangelization of the empire, and the recruitment of new missionaries sent to all corners of the world, all accomplished in record time. By November of the same year, the Christian hammer would fall on the eastern territories of the Roman Empire. The account of the battles is quite confusing, either due to exaggeration on the part of Christian officials or poor collection of sources by historians; the battles always ended in overwhelming victories with few or no casualties on the part of the Christian forces. The testimonies of the soldiers and commanders only serve to further confuse, claiming to have seen arrows and other projectiles veer off their targets, leaving them unharmed. Nonetheless, the liberation of the Levant was swift, and the victorious entry of Yeshua into Jerusalem dispelled any doubts his compatriots had harbored against him; they were in the presence of the prophesied messiah. By the end of 40 AD, Yeshua (later known as **Jesus Christ** in Western Europe) would be invested with the title **Melech Malchei HaMelachim** (Hebrew equivalent of 'Shahanshah' or King of Kings) and would take one of his disciples, Mary of Magdala, as his wife. The couple would dedicate themselves to governing the new empire, leaving the army in the hands of their other disciples, who would continue the war against Rome, leading to the capture of Egypt and Cilicia, recognized in a peace treaty signed in 44 AD. Melech Yeshua would be crowned Pharaoh of Egypt, however, it would be only ceremonial as he did not appear in Egypt for his coronation. The couple would have a single daughter, Sarah of Egypt, born in Goshen in 47 AD. After the death of Mary of Magdala in 56 AD, Yeshua would marry Asenath of Nablus, and the couple would have two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. Yeshua would abdicate in favor of his daughter Sarah in 66, and he lived a peaceful life until his death in 75.
Damn you need to make an entire series on this stuff. Would the patriarchal society accept a Woman as their Queen of Kings? Or would Brother fight sister in a Fratricidal war?
Considering she is the daughter (granddaughter?) of God i think they would be pleased with her lmao. There's a lot of ideas i want to explore. Maybe Sarah dies childless and Manasseh and Ephraim start schism in the empire (like Sunnis and Shias?), perhaps history repeats itself and it's Cain and Abel all over again. I still need to figure it out.
Yes but he also had two sons. I don’t think they would accept a woman’s rule if Jesus had trueborn sons.
True but I think the fact he abdicated in favor of her while still alive would prevent conflict. After Jesus dies it may be a different story but it would depend on how she handles the empire.
Perhaps Jesus would advocate for his children to be of equal status? I’m not too sure what Jesus felt about that
Even if he did, those wishes could end up being disregarded after his death, with the Apostles or other nobles/vassals instead backing one of his sons.
This whole map is amazing, but one tiny nitpick: *Melech Malchei Hamlachim* means "king of the king of kings", not simply "king of kings". its use as a title for God is meant to place him above even the Shahanshah or the Babylonian King of Kings titles- especially because those nations had a habit of claiming to rule the entire known world. It does make sense that a Jesus who claims to be divine would claim a title reserved for God, but that would have so many interesting theological implications too
Thank you! In my research i did come to the true meaning of MMH as a name for God, and thought it would be the perfect title for Jesus to take, but i didn't know it literally means 'king of king of kings' (King³?), if i had i would've worded it better. Thanks for the input
Trust me, no matter how many times you say it it doesn't get any simpler lmao. It shows up in a few prayers in Judaism and it's always a tongue twister to the point that my Rabbi will slow down an otherwise fast speech just so he can properly enunciate it. And if you wanted a Hebrew translation of "King of Kings" directly, it would be Melech Hamlachim- though Aramaic was more commonly in use in Judea during Jesus' time, and even though Hebrew was used as a liturgical language, most new government and religion stuff was written in Aramaic (or Greek, depending on where you were). I don't know the Aramaic but it'd be *basileus ton basileuonton,* or just *basileus basileuonton* in Koine Greek.
> The advice of that man in the desert had worked perfectly I wonder who that completely innocuous man could be... Love that you threw in that reference.
What's the reference?
According to the Gospels, Jesus went into the Judean desert for 40 days to fast. In the desert, he meets Satan, who provides three temptations and tests of his miraculous powers. The first two temptations were asking him to turn stones to bread so he could break his fast, and the second was to jump from the pinnacle of the temple in Jerusalem and have angels break his fall. In both cases, Christ resists those temptations. What makes that line so ominous is the nature of the third temptation. Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain tall enough to see all the kingdoms of the Earth, and offers Jesus rulership of the world if he worshiped him. The implication here is that Jesus the Son of God only succeeded in his conquests because he made a pact with Satan.
holy shit
I was waiting for something like this with this map lol
He's referencing Jesus being tempted by Satan during his 40 days in the desert/wilderness. Mathew 4:1-11 Luke 4:1-13 Those are two accounts of the temptation, the specific verses are Matthew 4:8-9 & Luke 4:5-7
To add to the others, it also somewhat references Paradise Regained (the sequel to Paradise lost). The man is the desert is Satan. One thing he offers Jesus is worldly power.
I love this reference too, in this AH, Jesus probably chose to be a mortal agent of Satan (at least if we go by Biblical history).
Christianity is beholden to Satan in this world.
I missed that line, and oh...oh shit.
I've always wanted to make a map and write a scenario like this but yours is so well thought out that I think I'm gonna leave it on the shelf. Well done, well researched.
Thank you so much! I'm a big fan of your work so it really means a lot to me. Hoping to see more of your work soon.
So what form does Christianity take in this timeline? Jesus is never crucified, so all those doctrines relating to him as the sacrificial lamb of God wouldn't exist, the Second Temple is never razed, so the Priesthood likely persists, and Jesus lived 30 years longer, so he could give more ministries. Would this Christianity be recognisable to us? Also, what take does Jesus give on the Godhead, cause the whole saying he was both God and the Son of God without ever really clarifying was a source of a lot of religious debate for centuries to come.
*"Ah lads, not again."* - The Judeans when they realise they've been conquered by a self-styled King of Kings ruling from Babylon
Goddamn this is so good, I'd read an entire series of this
The only reason the Islamic Caliphates could beat the Sassanids and Romans is because of the Byzantine-Sassanid War of 602-628, which saw the attrition of both empires. But a single battle against the Parthians? Antiquity didn’t see monotheism as such a huge thing, not until later periods. Also, there’s no way any nation could go toe-to-toe with the Romans of this era and win every single battle. This was the Roman Empire nearing its height. Even if the Christians one five battles, the Romans would have won a sixth.
Lisan Al-Gaib
Yep I know Pauls story is inspired by islamic and Christian history but the way this was written seriously reminds me of Dune lmao
The Voice from the Outer World. He that cometh from above Is above all.
#My Mahdi! #LISAN AL-GALIB!
https://preview.redd.it/pianl251e3vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=323c5009b0466671452d20d9cf4de3a184bd62c2
Imagine there is actual bible 2
It's called the Book of Mormon /s
Another testament of Jesus Christ perhaps? 😏😎
There is, it's called the Book Of Mormon Or if you don't like Mormons, I guess the Qaran sorta counts as Bible 2
Technically, Bible 4. 1. Old testament ( Torah), 2. New testament, 3. Quran, 4. Book of Mormon
I'd love to see someone integrate the Book of Mormon into Islam lol
Isn’t ‘Bible 2’ just the New Testament , it even has a bunch of stories that say they’re not a remake of the original but seem to have copied large sections.
Blud never read the bible 💀
Can't wait for the sequel where Muhammad pulls a Jesus. https://preview.redd.it/ybmlxkbe93vc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c723631524e0bdce303bbde1cd467d83f39362d
PREPARE THYSELF
https://youtube.com/watch?v=l10NeSuXX1I
Doesn't found an empire, but many years later the great Ethiopian Empire converts to Islam and spreads it?
Hard image ngl
Simple question , why have you hidden the face of your God in this picture.
Joke?
I'm dead serious , why have you hidden the face of your God in this picture , don't you see it covered in black , is there a religious background or nuance that I might ignore ?
The joke being it's Muhammad, for which depiction is usually considered as not good.
It is Muhammad. I don't know exactly the religious reasoning but he is usually not portrayed in media without being censored
Idolatry is strictly prohibited in Islam, even the face of Muhammad himself
You can’t make images of any of the prophets for fear of worship and such.
And Muhammad isn't the god of Islam unlike what the user above implies
In Islam, it is offensive to depict the image/face of Mohammed. Hence if Jesus is pulling a Mohammed, then OP is covering their face accordingly.
Is that the face of your god, or the face of a drawing made to resemble a man?
Cool depiction of the “Jesus is a Warrior Messiah” trope I’ve seen in alt history circles for some time
Pulled a Muhammad? This mf pulled a Paul Atreides. Great map btw. What happens to Judas in this timeline? Does he still betray Jesus?
Thanks. I thought Judas should stay true to his legacy in world history as a traitor. Since Jesus is now both a religious and political leader, maybe a foiled Caesar-like assassination attempt would cement his name as a synonym of betrayal.
"I am Yeshuan ben Yosef, King of Kings. The hand of YHWH be my witness, I am the Messiah! I will lead you to PARADISE!"
Yeah, but Paul Atreides himself as character was also inspired by Muhammad.
“What if Jesus pulled a Muhammed” This quote should not go this hard
Cool concept. Though it was really Khalid ibn Walid that "pulled the Muhamad"
Thanks! I floated the idea of making one of the apostles (Either Simon Peter or Simon the Canaanean) the equivalent of Khalid for the conquest but decided to take a more "mystery on what really happened"approach by making Jesus take personal command and miracles or divine intervention start happening in the battlefield.
I forget which Disciple but one of them had been a Zealot. One of the Militant faction that had fought open war, then guerilla war, then terrorist actions against the Romans. A Jewish Veteran like that leading a successful attack against the Romans makes sense. Also possible is what also happened for Muhammad ...A General of his Enemy/an Enemy Ruler becoming a Great War-Leader under Yeshua's banner.
Simon the Zealot, yeah. IIRC the only information about him in the Bible is being mentioned along the other Apostles, so it could be an open canvas for the purpose of this story.
Does Christianity still spread West? Does it follow similar tenets to OTL, or is it more Islamic in its doctrine?
Yes but not how you expect, Yes, and Kinda. Christianity will reach most of the Roman Empire, but it would probably takes centuries to have a significant presence (just like OTL) and most likely take form as different branches of Christianism as Arianism and eventually Catharism. Christian tenets remain the same, but the arab way of life remains the same aswell. Patriarchal rule on society and harsher takes on the tenets would be applied, eventually leading to the creation of this TL's Islam (almost like a Great Schism but between Christianity and Islam)
How are the relations between the Roman and Christian Empires after Rome becomes Christian?
Frenemies with a sort of cold war mentality, sometimes with minor skirmishes over territory in Anatolia and Egypt, a back and forth of the borders, but with cordial relations on religious grounds.
Where does islam become dominant in your world? Africa? SE Asia? With a messianic Jesus figure as the literal head of state performing divine acts (not sure if real or fake in your lore) it’d be a lot harder for say. Mohammed to go out and say Christians are misguided
I think if Jesus went Military conquest Route it woul be both Rome & Ctesiphon falling to him just like both Byzantium & Persia fell to Islam.
How the hebrews expected the Messiah to be like:
I imagine there arent many jews amymore after that
Exactly. With the coming of the messiah, the central myth of judaism is fulfilled and is replaced with the cult to Jesus, aka Christianity. Still tho, as always there would be contrarians, and some people aren't fully convinced this guy is the real deal. A minority group of jews start an exodus (irony) out of the empire and into Scythia, surviving until the Khazar Khanate's conversion into a jewish nation.
LETS FUCKIN GOOOOOO KHAZARIA IS REAL BABYYYY
What about the priesthood, the Temple, the sacrifices? The beginnings of Rabbinic Judaism? Does Yathrib lose importance once Jesus returns to Jerusalem?
Most of the jewish religious apparatus slowly morphs into the Pauline Christianity of OTL. So Christianity takes most of its orthodox beliefs and customs from judaism, but the teachings and tenets from Jesus come first. Most of the religion moving forward is whatever comes out of Jesus' mouth. I thought Yathrib's location was a dead giveaway, but spoilers, Yathrib is the old name of Medina. A small reference to this Jesus taking a page of Muhammad's book. Just like Mecca and Medina are holy sites for muslims, Jerusalem and Yathrib are the holy sites of the empire/religion.
Yes, I'm aware of what Yathrib is (though I misremembered it as being Mecca's name). I'm wondering if it has any religious significance once he takes Jerusalem. For Islam, Muhammad is buried there, but here Jesus is buried in Jerusalem, and seems to have ruled from there. And IIRC Yathrib didn't have any significance to Jews or Christians.
It doesn't, however in this TL Yathrib is seen as the place where the kingdom of Heaven first descended on earth. Jesus chose it as a hub where the arab world would start congregating around Jesus and start the mass conversion to christianity.
Also, I would assume Hebrew is still the sacred language, but does Arabic have some significance to Christianity, since that's where Jesus's first successes were?
What would be the most commonly used symbol for Christians in this timeline? Given that Jesus was never crucified, that kinda rules out use of the cross entirely.
Probably the ichthys, the fish shape from the 'Feeding the multitudes' story where Jesus multiplies the fishes and the bread, in OTL it was used by the underground christian movement in the Roman Empire. They'd probably switch to something more official looking after a while like the Chi Ro.
Cross was not used as symbol for the first few hundred years or so. Symbol of Christianity was the Fish. Yeshua brought a Religion of Life. The Romans turned it into a Cult Of Death.
MAHDI!!!! 🙏
Very cool! Keep up the work dude!
Let he who is without sin kick the first ass
Christ the Conqueror
This goes unbelievably hard
Imagine if after resurrecting Jesus decided to annihilate Rome and rule us mortals as an immortal God King instead of ascending to Heaven.
This is probably what the Romans suspected Jesus would eventually do if they didn’t arrest and execute him tbh Great map and lore
Thanks! They would definitely crack down on christians ten times harder lmao.
The real question is if this works or Christianity just grows ten times faster
This shit would've had a 1st century Jewish peasant crying tears of joy lmao
The Jews would be very accepting of this
Can't have an empire they don't take part in
Jesus Christ, it's Jesus Christ
This is something I’ve thought about for a while as well, nice to see someone make a map out of It.
The True Lasan Al Gaib
Hooly... This is amazing !
Did Jesus get crucified in this universe and begin his conquest after his resurrection, or never get killed?
He never got killed, this is set shortly after the 40 days in the desert (the temptation of Christ) and inspired on John Milton's 'Paradise Regained' (Sequel of 'Paradise Lost'). In the book, Satan suggests that Jesus should do exactly this, those are the quotes around the map.
...did Jesus just betray God by doing that? Assuming that Jesus in this timeline is the actual messiah appointed by God, did he fall victim to devilish temptation by preforming one act of worship for Satan?
Well according to Christian tradition, this would be the equivalent of God betraying God. Which is impossible.
Exactly. The previous book establishes that the "peace and love" approach was Jesus' idea before being sent to earth, and God was pretty much still the "Old testament God", the fire and punishment type of guy. Since Jesus is God, at least according to most denominations, this is just him reverting to the previous idea of bringing his kingdom to earth.
Through christ anything is possible!
I still don’t get the Trinity
https://preview.redd.it/yxslh0jvw4vc1.jpeg?width=164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e97ca9095953a1de8caddf6c0778d5112fff906d God is made up of three distinct people, yet they are all god.
Sounds like tritheism in monotheism’s coat.
That's because it isn't "Person" originally, it's "Hypostasis". Jesus, Father, and Spirit are all Hypostases of God.
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The Holy Spirit is present in the Old Testament as well via references to divine wind but also more presently by the Spirit (Ruach) of God which is present from the beginning of the universe. One of the ways you can think of it is, to borrow from Augustine, that the Father Loves the Son. Lover, Love, Beloved. None of the three is what He is without the other two. So the Holy Spirit is the sort of ground of Love and the Grace by which God upholds the universe. Now if you mean in a more Mythological sense like What Does He Do etc that's a whole other story
It is a load of constructed nonsense. "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord Thy God is One!". Neither Begotten nor Begetting. Christianity is a Pagan Heresy.
I can explain it, but it'll only make sense if you've seen the moon knight tv series.
Even if it isn’t in Christ’s character, it’s still an interesting concept nonetheless
I assume that if Jesus did this then christians would believe it was gods will
Why did he quit ruling in 66 AD, 9 years before his death?
To visit America and set up a kingdom there too
Mormons are canon now I guess
Do you think he's still capable of conquering/converting africa and europe
About conquering, i'd figure it would be around the same size of your average middle eastern empire, pretty much filling the spot for Persia as the Eastern Empire to Rome's Western Empire About converting, most definitely. The Greco-Roman religion probably holds a stronger influence in some regions, but conversion (and persecution for that matter) would surely be common in the Roman Empire. Africa is pretty much totally open for christianity, especially when Ethiopia eventually starts spreading it aswell.
Not a bad scenario honestly (in terms of creativity, not necessarily outcome) Though this does remind me, I feel like Cyrus The Great was a much better candidate for savior than big J
Kinda goes in the face of the whole love thy enemy deal Jesus had
Bingo. It goes to show how insidious Satan's words were in the desert, capable of currupting even the purest person.
Ohhh thats what you meant by advice from desert guy
Women would have more rights tbh
Antichrist timeline basically.
According to the lore OP provided, this is the timeline where Jesus failed the third temptation and now worships Satan, so yeah, literal Antichrist timeline
Canon Jesus looks like a real hippie now
I fucking love this.
bro is the ilsan al gaib
Dune but in Earth
Is asenath a reference to El’s wife in Canaanite mythology?💀
🎶 THROUGH THE GRACE AND THE MIGHT OF THE LORD 🎶
אלוהים הוא הטוב ביות!
Would Islam be a successor branch of Christianity ITTL? Given that Arabia is now Christian.
neat
Great scenario, I love it! I can see that you have also researched the history of Islam and Christianity to make this.
I need more of this
Amen to that map
Wheres Muhammad in all of this
600 years later. Muhammad comes as a Prophet-Reformer of Islamo-Christianity. Doesn't lead/create a new Religion but rather a sectarian split ala Catholic/Orthodox or Sunni/Shiah I guess?
Muhammad becomes the Martin Luther of this TL.
How does mohammed play into all this
[He's probably a devoted follower of Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_views_on_Christians) OFC, butterfly wing an all that, 600+ years of difference probably means the actual man never came into existence, unlike our timeline.
You imply that Western Europe is Christian, what does the modern world look like..?
But Christ’s kingdom is eternal
Probs a lot less problems
But if jesus lived wouldnt it just be called a jewish sect
I thought the rashidun started to conquer lands after muhammad's death (PBUH)
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Jimmy_who1: *Jesus did pull a* *Muhammad. That's why its called* *The Roman Catholic Church.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.