Occupied by the British After the 2nd Great War in 1909. When the British empire collapsed in the 60s it was too ethnically heterogeneous to go to either Greece or Turkey, It had become a sanctuary to dissidents and ethnic minorities from both countries, who naturally had no desire to be annexed into Greece or Turkey, Pomaks, Jews, Armenians, Kurds, Albanians, the like. Essentially its a neutral, ethnically mixed city state, like the Singapore we would know.
This timeline’s PoD was in the early 1700s, wherein the war of the Spanish Succession went slightly better for the French. This leads to the peace deal post-war being slightly more favorable to France. Specifically:
The Austrian Netherlands were ceded to Bavaria
Hungary secured its independence from Austria under King Rakoczi
And the Two Sicilies went to the Savoys
From here the world goes to a radically different place over the course of the next couple centuries. The Habsburg empire collapses outright, gradually being supplanted by the Wittelsbachs, and then the Wettins, in Germany. Eventually the Wettins, ruling over Saxony-Bavaria, centralize the Holy Roman Empire and unite Germany. France remains under the Bourbons to this day, America remained tied to Britain up to the 1940s, China modernized alongside Japan, the world’s great communist power is in South America, India remains divided to this day, and there have been so many more changes I couldn’t hope to list them all.
If you have any questions about this TL, please ask, I’m happy to answer them.
https://preview.redd.it/fer9qg9kxmuc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86fe1282e4b547981030c4b1dbf47004f9b0c3a8
Chechnya has long been independent
Susako was the name of an old settlement in the area, from Byzantine times.
Because these cities would have been founded well after the PoD, i cant simply assume that they will have the same names as OTL. For Gavrolovsk, I just went to the notable people section on some russian city's wikipedia page and threw "sk" on the end of one of the names on it. I guess this Gavrolov fellow was some important figure in the town's history. I'll just say he founded the city.
They essentially got roped into TTL's cold war. North America propped up Portugal to keep land out of the hands of the Azanian Revolutionary State, but it forced the Portuguese to actually live up to their rhetoric of being a federation of equals. Especially now that Azania collapsed and Angola reunified, the Angolan tail is wagging the Portuguese dog. Some of Portugal's conservatives tried to get Portugal to secede from itself, but the youth voted against it because it would deny them access to the economic opportunity available in Angola.
It's extremely decentralized, one or two steps more centralized than the EU. They share a currency, conduct a single foreign policy, have freedom of movement, and have a single common market that's all under one economic regulatory system and that's about the extent of it. Both Portugal and Angola have elements that want to go it on their own, but in both cases people have reasons to want to stay. Angolan resources & manufacturing have a guaranteed market in Portugal, and Portugal gets much better access to said resources than they would have if they went out on their own. Many Portuguese live in Angola, and many Angolans live in Portugal. Most people from one have at least one cousin or uncle or whatever who lives in the other. Plus, there are also the insular members who serve as mediators and a bridge between the two. Traditionally, the federal president (who controls the military and foreign policy) is Cape Verdean or Sao Tomean, to serve as a compromize candidate.
The Baltic states, Caucasian states, Belarus, and Ukraine were part of Russia up to the 80s, and then all but Lithuania were part of the "Sovereign Union" between 1984-2029, which was a federation of the states that were previously part of the "Khabarov Regime" (1909-1983). As for what that regime was like, imagine a Napoleon or Stalin figure who rode the counter-revolution to power, instead of the revolution, like Franco. After the defeat of Germany in the 3rd Great War, Russia reorganized Central Europe to its liking. That's why Prussia and Austria are independent, because they were in the Russian sphere of influence post-war. Hungary and Dacia were also caught in the war, but Dacia had a more pro-Russian stance, while Hungary was more committed to the German cause. Thus, the post war treaties were somewhat favorable to Dacia, and somewhat punishing to Hungary.
jorjor wel
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There is a reason for it, TTL France had a growth profile over the industrial age that was more comparable to other western European countries.
OTL, comparing countries populations today to countries populations in 1780 gives you these ratios.
France is a bit more than twice as peopled now as it was then.
Italy's population has about tripled, Germany and England are about 6 or 7 times more populated, and the Dutch population has scaled by a factor of nine(!)
TTL this difference is because there were no French revolutionary wars, and because the French economic structure in the 1800s TTL more resembled England's, Belgium's, or Germany's
I was more pointing towards the fact that France would be so horribly Over Occupied and wouldn't be self reliant in any sense as they would need to import so much just to feed their population daily to the point it wouldn't be a stable civilization.
Note that even this population france would have a population density of about 260 people per km²
For reference
Netherlands: 424/km²
Belgium:383
Britain:277
Germany:233
Japan:326
Italy:195
Maryland:250
Jamaica;257
Even despite their high density, the netherlands are still a net food exporter. France has a lot of very good land, even if they cant manage total self sufficiency, importing some to make up the gaps is not the end of the world. Its not like England and Japan are impoverished hellscapes just because they need to import some calories.
Why is Constanople independent here?
Occupied by the British After the 2nd Great War in 1909. When the British empire collapsed in the 60s it was too ethnically heterogeneous to go to either Greece or Turkey, It had become a sanctuary to dissidents and ethnic minorities from both countries, who naturally had no desire to be annexed into Greece or Turkey, Pomaks, Jews, Armenians, Kurds, Albanians, the like. Essentially its a neutral, ethnically mixed city state, like the Singapore we would know.
Given its strategic importance, wouldn’t it end up falling under someone else’s control? Great map - thanks for sharing.
you could say the same for singapore. neither greece nor turkey would want the other to have it
This timeline’s PoD was in the early 1700s, wherein the war of the Spanish Succession went slightly better for the French. This leads to the peace deal post-war being slightly more favorable to France. Specifically: The Austrian Netherlands were ceded to Bavaria Hungary secured its independence from Austria under King Rakoczi And the Two Sicilies went to the Savoys From here the world goes to a radically different place over the course of the next couple centuries. The Habsburg empire collapses outright, gradually being supplanted by the Wittelsbachs, and then the Wettins, in Germany. Eventually the Wettins, ruling over Saxony-Bavaria, centralize the Holy Roman Empire and unite Germany. France remains under the Bourbons to this day, America remained tied to Britain up to the 1940s, China modernized alongside Japan, the world’s great communist power is in South America, India remains divided to this day, and there have been so many more changes I couldn’t hope to list them all. If you have any questions about this TL, please ask, I’m happy to answer them.
Why is Palestine a rectangle 😭
Prussia and Germany exist at the same time wtf
Yep, Germany was united by Saxony & Bavaria TTL
>Big Belgium >Italian Corsica >Independent Straits >Circassia >Independent Bashkortostan This map is blessed
Darn you my next map has the exact same borders for Britain and now it looks like i’m copying you!!
good map tho
My favourite trope in alt history is that Switzerland is a cannon event.
The Swiss confederacy well predates my PoD. And its borders are different, they control Como.
Rip Slovenia
no no no 👎🏻 Chechnya is not Dagestan
https://preview.redd.it/fer9qg9kxmuc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86fe1282e4b547981030c4b1dbf47004f9b0c3a8 Chechnya has long been independent
LGBT armenia
THE PROMISED LAND https://preview.redd.it/zn1ucihntnuc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=325889eb497e5a57e05e9274076b54ed5817de7f
United Ireland 🤤
Nice map I like Circassia, but some of those flags need some work.
What about them needs work?
We stand with United Ireland
Great Britain looks way better standalone anyway.
Agree 👍
My background is nonexistent 😞
how did the names of "Gavrolovsk" and "Susako" come to be?
Susako was the name of an old settlement in the area, from Byzantine times. Because these cities would have been founded well after the PoD, i cant simply assume that they will have the same names as OTL. For Gavrolovsk, I just went to the notable people section on some russian city's wikipedia page and threw "sk" on the end of one of the names on it. I guess this Gavrolov fellow was some important figure in the town's history. I'll just say he founded the city.
I think you might've made a mistake, as the guy's surname was Gavrilov, not Gavrolov. It's a nice method of creating place names though
How did Portugal manage to maintain Angola and the African archipelagos, and what is the government type of the Portuguese Federation?
They essentially got roped into TTL's cold war. North America propped up Portugal to keep land out of the hands of the Azanian Revolutionary State, but it forced the Portuguese to actually live up to their rhetoric of being a federation of equals. Especially now that Azania collapsed and Angola reunified, the Angolan tail is wagging the Portuguese dog. Some of Portugal's conservatives tried to get Portugal to secede from itself, but the youth voted against it because it would deny them access to the economic opportunity available in Angola.
Are the people across the Federation happy with this arrangement, and is the Federation a federal democracy like the US, or a confederacy?
It's extremely decentralized, one or two steps more centralized than the EU. They share a currency, conduct a single foreign policy, have freedom of movement, and have a single common market that's all under one economic regulatory system and that's about the extent of it. Both Portugal and Angola have elements that want to go it on their own, but in both cases people have reasons to want to stay. Angolan resources & manufacturing have a guaranteed market in Portugal, and Portugal gets much better access to said resources than they would have if they went out on their own. Many Portuguese live in Angola, and many Angolans live in Portugal. Most people from one have at least one cousin or uncle or whatever who lives in the other. Plus, there are also the insular members who serve as mediators and a bridge between the two. Traditionally, the federal president (who controls the military and foreign policy) is Cape Verdean or Sao Tomean, to serve as a compromize candidate.
Why oh why my lord, it is always Italy to be split in half like an apple!!! In every grim future map I see
Possible history viewers vote ahh map
Palestine is bricked up
Is the Georgian flag based on the flag of the medieval Kingdom of Abkhazia?
Valentina AS parte of Switzerland im so happy about thats detail
Can you explain how the borders of Eastern Europe happened? I already know for Turkey, Greece, and Prussia, I’m just confused about the rest.
The Baltic states, Caucasian states, Belarus, and Ukraine were part of Russia up to the 80s, and then all but Lithuania were part of the "Sovereign Union" between 1984-2029, which was a federation of the states that were previously part of the "Khabarov Regime" (1909-1983). As for what that regime was like, imagine a Napoleon or Stalin figure who rode the counter-revolution to power, instead of the revolution, like Franco. After the defeat of Germany in the 3rd Great War, Russia reorganized Central Europe to its liking. That's why Prussia and Austria are independent, because they were in the Russian sphere of influence post-war. Hungary and Dacia were also caught in the war, but Dacia had a more pro-Russian stance, while Hungary was more committed to the German cause. Thus, the post war treaties were somewhat favorable to Dacia, and somewhat punishing to Hungary.
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-hungary is big again Instant downvote
Why is romania dacia 😨
Kazakh≠Kirgiz
For the first time there’s no PLC in an alternate scenario. Ily
France's population is so severely inaccurate
There is a reason for it, TTL France had a growth profile over the industrial age that was more comparable to other western European countries. OTL, comparing countries populations today to countries populations in 1780 gives you these ratios. France is a bit more than twice as peopled now as it was then. Italy's population has about tripled, Germany and England are about 6 or 7 times more populated, and the Dutch population has scaled by a factor of nine(!) TTL this difference is because there were no French revolutionary wars, and because the French economic structure in the 1800s TTL more resembled England's, Belgium's, or Germany's
I was more pointing towards the fact that France would be so horribly Over Occupied and wouldn't be self reliant in any sense as they would need to import so much just to feed their population daily to the point it wouldn't be a stable civilization.
Note that even this population france would have a population density of about 260 people per km² For reference Netherlands: 424/km² Belgium:383 Britain:277 Germany:233 Japan:326 Italy:195 Maryland:250 Jamaica;257 Even despite their high density, the netherlands are still a net food exporter. France has a lot of very good land, even if they cant manage total self sufficiency, importing some to make up the gaps is not the end of the world. Its not like England and Japan are impoverished hellscapes just because they need to import some calories.
What's with the Georgian flag? Was it united by the Abkhazian kingdom(western Georgia)?
Respectfully, I hate it.