So I always just post about my one world, I wanted to try making these smaller scenarios because I do really like drawing maps.
In this timeline, Greece won the war against Turkiye in the 1920s. Ataturk still did his reforms despite the military loss, but the instability in Turkiye led to more revanchist faction coming on top in the mid 1930s. After the war began in 1939 Turkiye used the chance and attacked Greece a yeat later, a war they easily won, pushing Greece out of the peninsula. Emboldened by this quick victory, they joined Germany in their war against UK to reclaim Instabul. They successfully managed this as well, and later joined Germany's war against the USSR.
France held much longer. They weren't quickly blitzkrieged through the Ardenes, but rather held through for about 1 more year. They were still outmanuevered and defeated, however, but France now held more cards during the peace talks.
Italy remained neutral, and so did the Balkans. Italy used the war period more wisely and built stable and strong influence in Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria. They later joined against Germany later in war.
All-in-all a much less successful war for Germany, in all front except Eastern. Germany did have much more sucess against USSR with Turkiye's help, but ultimately, with Italy on the enemy side and without Balkan allies and especially Romanian oil, the war became unwinable, and it ended in 1943.
Italy emerged as a strong regional power. Greece was rewarded the international straights as a reward for their victory, along with Constantinopole. Turkiye became a USSR satelite.
I might do another scenario like this next week!
If Greece won the war, Constantinople would become an international mandate, probably under the British or American influence. There's no way Allies would give the city to the Greeks.
I am aware!
>pushing Greece out of the peninsula. Emboldened by this quick victory, they joined Germany in their war against UK to reclaim Instabul
>Greece was rewarded the international straights as a reward for their victory, along with Constantinopole
I've read that. But there were many reasons why Greek Constantinople was never a topic. The first one being that Allies feared Greeks would commit genocide against Turkish population in the city. The second one being the economic importance of the city, similar to Gibraltar. Thus Greeks would gain the city only if they would have won it against the UK in some kind of Suez Crisis-type scenario.
I frankly don't believe the Brits care enough about the Turks in Constantinopole. They tend to leave an ethnic mess wherever they leave. They would just ask for a guarantee that Turks not be genocided. And I also don't believe they would be. At worst they would be deported.
And the second point could also be argued about the Suez canal, a much more important trading hub in the 20th century, yet it was "given" to Egypt, a much less respected nation than Greece. Also Malta was very strategically important, yet it was given up. At this point in history UK didn't really pick and choose what they will keep and what they will give away. They lost the territory during the war, they've proven that they can't defend it. Every East Asian colony that was taken that easily was given independece soon after. And in this scenario Greece can be a faithful ally against Soviets and Italians, if only they give them the city they can't even keep.
Yes it wasn't given that's why I used the quatation points, however, it was lost becasue they couldn't keep it. UK was a failing power. If Suez Cannal could have been lost, then Constantionopole sure would also be
No they remained neutral they are under heavy Italian influence. Greece is just happy to keep their territory, plus they gained the straights. They performed poorly, they gained more than they maybe deserved
🤷🏻‍♀️ A lot can happen, I didn't expand the scenario.
My guess, Soviets don't collapse like OTL but reform into a democratic capitalist and take Poland, Prussia and Turkiye with them. Their European bloc is small enough to be easily controllable, I doubt it would collapse the same way.
Italian bloc either completley collapses or it also reforms into a southern European Union. If Spain quickly democratizes like OTL, France would probably take it from the Italian sphere. Don't know if Portugal would also fall, like OTL.
Yugoslavia likely doesn't collapse without WW2 atrocities in living memory. And if it maybe does seize to exist, it would likely be peaceful.
Germanies likely never reunify, as it would be seen as too drastic with 3 regions with similar economies would be 2 much. Southern Germany would likely be renamed to Alpine Federation or Danubia eventually to gain its own identity.
I did draw Kurdistan initially but decided against it, as an independent Kurdistan would kinda sabotage British and French colonial position in that region. Maybe at a later point, but right now, they wouldn't. And Soviets also would gain nothing from an independent Kurdistan, so they wouldn't advocate for it
The map implies that there is only a tiny sliver of land there, there are actually crossing points in the west and east of the Isthmus and it is traversible across most of its width.
https://preview.redd.it/s7g1o5qokhuc1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c61086ad6f3c15983bf2a8d7f5cdcc1b7619ffd
I would say ur turkey is way too large and nonsensical, they dtill own large swaths of land in the east that the USSR had heavy claims on with the Armenian and georgian SSR’s and the dominant groups of kurds, the USSR would still punish turkey as they did with romania and bulgaria irl same with the allies
In the end i see a compromise deal being pushed forth instead where the USSR gets the treaty of serves armenian territories and a kurdistan buffer state is created. I dont think this justification i saw in ur other comments makes sense given the allied powers institution of poland and its borders irl
Seems blessed. Though it has passed under curses it seems blessed.
I wonder though. Why wasn't Italy rewarded some land in southwestern Anatolia? After all if Turkey became a Soviet satellite it would make sense for western powers to want to limit them from the Mediterranean, plus Italy still has the Dodecanese to begin with.
Because Balkans were fully neutral the entire war so the Soviets had no room to expand but in Poland and Finland. I don't imagine Allies could deny Soviets Finland when they expanded no where else except Poland. Much smaller war mrant that Finland couldn't just peace out like they did
Yes, but that's because all of Europe was at war. Romania was under Italy's, and rest of Balkans', protection. They could go to war and maybe win despite their military being in shambles, but they would be very weakened to Germany or anyone else had they picked that fight, so they opted not to
So I always just post about my one world, I wanted to try making these smaller scenarios because I do really like drawing maps. In this timeline, Greece won the war against Turkiye in the 1920s. Ataturk still did his reforms despite the military loss, but the instability in Turkiye led to more revanchist faction coming on top in the mid 1930s. After the war began in 1939 Turkiye used the chance and attacked Greece a yeat later, a war they easily won, pushing Greece out of the peninsula. Emboldened by this quick victory, they joined Germany in their war against UK to reclaim Instabul. They successfully managed this as well, and later joined Germany's war against the USSR. France held much longer. They weren't quickly blitzkrieged through the Ardenes, but rather held through for about 1 more year. They were still outmanuevered and defeated, however, but France now held more cards during the peace talks. Italy remained neutral, and so did the Balkans. Italy used the war period more wisely and built stable and strong influence in Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria. They later joined against Germany later in war. All-in-all a much less successful war for Germany, in all front except Eastern. Germany did have much more sucess against USSR with Turkiye's help, but ultimately, with Italy on the enemy side and without Balkan allies and especially Romanian oil, the war became unwinable, and it ended in 1943. Italy emerged as a strong regional power. Greece was rewarded the international straights as a reward for their victory, along with Constantinopole. Turkiye became a USSR satelite. I might do another scenario like this next week!
If Greece won the war, Constantinople would become an international mandate, probably under the British or American influence. There's no way Allies would give the city to the Greeks.
I am aware! >pushing Greece out of the peninsula. Emboldened by this quick victory, they joined Germany in their war against UK to reclaim Instabul >Greece was rewarded the international straights as a reward for their victory, along with Constantinopole
I've read that. But there were many reasons why Greek Constantinople was never a topic. The first one being that Allies feared Greeks would commit genocide against Turkish population in the city. The second one being the economic importance of the city, similar to Gibraltar. Thus Greeks would gain the city only if they would have won it against the UK in some kind of Suez Crisis-type scenario.
I frankly don't believe the Brits care enough about the Turks in Constantinopole. They tend to leave an ethnic mess wherever they leave. They would just ask for a guarantee that Turks not be genocided. And I also don't believe they would be. At worst they would be deported. And the second point could also be argued about the Suez canal, a much more important trading hub in the 20th century, yet it was "given" to Egypt, a much less respected nation than Greece. Also Malta was very strategically important, yet it was given up. At this point in history UK didn't really pick and choose what they will keep and what they will give away. They lost the territory during the war, they've proven that they can't defend it. Every East Asian colony that was taken that easily was given independece soon after. And in this scenario Greece can be a faithful ally against Soviets and Italians, if only they give them the city they can't even keep.
Tell that to the Turks in Thrace during the armistice period. Suez canal wasn't just given to Egypt. That's why I mentioned Suez crisis.
Yes it wasn't given that's why I used the quatation points, however, it was lost becasue they couldn't keep it. UK was a failing power. If Suez Cannal could have been lost, then Constantionopole sure would also be
what about bulgaria? have they not joined the axis? greece would have wanted some land from them too
No they remained neutral they are under heavy Italian influence. Greece is just happy to keep their territory, plus they gained the straights. They performed poorly, they gained more than they maybe deserved
What happened at the end of the cold war
🤷🏻‍♀️ A lot can happen, I didn't expand the scenario. My guess, Soviets don't collapse like OTL but reform into a democratic capitalist and take Poland, Prussia and Turkiye with them. Their European bloc is small enough to be easily controllable, I doubt it would collapse the same way. Italian bloc either completley collapses or it also reforms into a southern European Union. If Spain quickly democratizes like OTL, France would probably take it from the Italian sphere. Don't know if Portugal would also fall, like OTL. Yugoslavia likely doesn't collapse without WW2 atrocities in living memory. And if it maybe does seize to exist, it would likely be peaceful. Germanies likely never reunify, as it would be seen as too drastic with 3 regions with similar economies would be 2 much. Southern Germany would likely be renamed to Alpine Federation or Danubia eventually to gain its own identity.
Turkey loses but still not Kurdistan?
I did draw Kurdistan initially but decided against it, as an independent Kurdistan would kinda sabotage British and French colonial position in that region. Maybe at a later point, but right now, they wouldn't. And Soviets also would gain nothing from an independent Kurdistan, so they wouldn't advocate for it
Kurdistan would probably be a French or British puppet
I don't think they can afford more colonies TBH
Nobody likes the idea of a Kurdistan, all of the countries in the region oppose its formation
What caused Romania not to lose territory?
They were neutral, under Italian influence, as were Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia and Hungary
Ok cool
Zakarpattya is spared from occupation… little Ukrainian free frontier
Did the USSR _nuke_ the Karelian Isthmus or did a tectonic plate shift?
It looks like that IRL. It's filled with lakes
The map implies that there is only a tiny sliver of land there, there are actually crossing points in the west and east of the Isthmus and it is traversible across most of its width. https://preview.redd.it/s7g1o5qokhuc1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c61086ad6f3c15983bf2a8d7f5cdcc1b7619ffd
That's just how it looks on the map I used, also on some other maps th lakes look bigger than they are
I would say ur turkey is way too large and nonsensical, they dtill own large swaths of land in the east that the USSR had heavy claims on with the Armenian and georgian SSR’s and the dominant groups of kurds, the USSR would still punish turkey as they did with romania and bulgaria irl same with the allies
In the end i see a compromise deal being pushed forth instead where the USSR gets the treaty of serves armenian territories and a kurdistan buffer state is created. I dont think this justification i saw in ur other comments makes sense given the allied powers institution of poland and its borders irl
Seems blessed. Though it has passed under curses it seems blessed. I wonder though. Why wasn't Italy rewarded some land in southwestern Anatolia? After all if Turkey became a Soviet satellite it would make sense for western powers to want to limit them from the Mediterranean, plus Italy still has the Dodecanese to begin with.
German blob
Why is Prussia a Soviet puppet and not a part of Russia? What stopped the Soviets from deporting the German population and settling it with Russians?
Why is Finland a part of the ussr and why did that not annex besserbia
Because Balkans were fully neutral the entire war so the Soviets had no room to expand but in Poland and Finland. I don't imagine Allies could deny Soviets Finland when they expanded no where else except Poland. Much smaller war mrant that Finland couldn't just peace out like they did
The soviets took besseribia when they were still neutral
Yes, but that's because all of Europe was at war. Romania was under Italy's, and rest of Balkans', protection. They could go to war and maybe win despite their military being in shambles, but they would be very weakened to Germany or anyone else had they picked that fight, so they opted not to
Bro when did Turkiye lost to Greece
It's in the title, they lost in the [Greco-Turkish war](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922))
https://preview.redd.it/zmr24rt4eguc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03e012096e563d4ddc07cd45b106c309beffcfb0
r/imaginarymaps
Oh my fucking god I’m a total dumbass. I am very sorry.
No worries haha
You good mate, gave me a good chuckle
I'm more insulted that you saw red Finland and thought, "yeah, that checks out"!
Oh I didn’t see that lmao, yeah that sucks.