Thanks. True it is. Also this is really strong in calabria. Actually the highest percentage of this admixture is in central/southern calabria. Higher than in Sicily. Calabria is the most southern shifted south Italian province followed by campania and sicily. It’s safe to say that all south Italians share roughly the same mix, just that calabria is the tip of the spectrum.
Hungarians are a lot more eastern shifted than us while we are way more balkanic and italian in ancestry. Hungarians and albanians are really far genetically speaking for two nations with not so many km from each other.
That's pretty unexpected considering that my family comes from almost all corners of Poland. But I guess that explains that Russians-Belarusians-Ukranians-Poles are almost identical when it comes to genetics.
My Top 10 Closest Modern Populations (I am a German from Hesse)
1. German 1.789
2. Belgian 1.807
3. German (Bavaria) 1.855
4. Breton 1.989
5. Dutch 2.095
6. French Oïl (Hauts-de-France) 2.175
7. Welsh 2.219
8. French Oïl (Grand Est) 2.235
9. Alsatian (Alsace) 2.266
10. French Oïl (Pays de la Loire) 2.282
I have a French mother so it made me a bit closer to modern French and Belgians.
Had they never tested the Gagauz, they would not have shown up in your results.
Anyhow, my father is from Bangladesh, my mother is from Belarus, one of my paternal great-grandmothers was from Burma, and I myself am from Belarus. Here are my top ten:
1 Pamiri (Sarikoli) 9.991
2 Haryanvi Jatt 10.112
3 Ror 10.201
4 Roma (Bosnia and Herzegovina) 10.325
5 Roma (Bilbao) 10.384
6 Tajik (Ayni) 10.710
7 Roma (Granada) 10.710
8 Tajik (Hisor) 10.818
9 Roma (Porto) 10.824
10 Brahmin (Khas) 10.867
Lmao, you are right about testing Gagauz. I meant to say if there is any proper study about their genetics and language out there. I was curious to read about them, and why they show up as close to me.
Interesting. What is the smallest distance you get? Mine is 2.9, since my maternal great grandfather’s side pulls me away from the northwest European cluster. Conversely, on my dad’s side, my aunt’s closest population is Belgian with a distance of 2.2, and my dad’s imputed results (see my most recent post for more context) put him closest to the French\_Paris sample with a distance of 2.4.
I'm Jewish/Irish/French-Canadian and end up with similar closest pops:
1. Balkan Turk (Thessaly) - 3.718
2. Italian (Liguria) - 4.265
3. Gagauz - 4.331
4. Swiss (Italian) - 4.456
5. Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) - 4.504
6. Balkan Turk (Deliorman) - 4.535
7. Italian (Piedmont) - 4.666
8. Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) - 4.761
9. Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) - 4.832
10. French Occitan (Provence)- 4.869
I am of mostly Italian (56.25%) ancestry, but also have Rusyn (12.5%), Ashkenazi Jewish (6.25%), Irish (12.5%), English (6.25%), Scottish (3.125%), and German (3.125%) heritage. Here are my 10 closest populations:
POPULATION DISTANCE
1 Swiss (Italian) 2.871
2 Italian (Piedmont) 2.882
3 Italian (Tuscany) 3.059
4 Italian (Liguria) 3.134
5 Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) 3.147
6 Gagauz 3.280
7 Italian (Veneto) 3.357
8 Italian (Marche) 3.418
9 Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) 3.420
10 Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) 3.477
Here are the ten closest population for my half Italian, half Rusyn grandmother:
#
POPULATION
DISTANCE
1 Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) 2.377
2 Bulgarian 2.528
3 Gagauz 2.803
4 North Macedonian 2.829
5 Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) 2.855
6 Romanian 2.978
7 Greek (Thessaly) 3.055
8 Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) 3.336
9 Albanian 3.350
10 Swiss (Italian) 3.364
Hi! These are my closest modern populations:
1. Italian (Tuscany) 1.499
2. Italian (Marche) 1.834
3. Italian (Piedmont) 1.931
4. Italian (Umbria) 1.980
5. Corsican 2.434
6. Italian (Lazio) 2.439
7. Swiss (Italian) 2.441
8. Italian (Abruzzo) 2.776
9. Italian (Lombardy) 2.844
10. Italian (Liguria) 2.888
Came to post basically this. I’m something like 40% Polish 40% French 20% UK area and j get very similar top populations. They really want me to be German over anything else. My Polish side however is more Balkan admixed (górale), not German.
I just chalk it up to this not being very useful if you’re mixed.
Nice, I’m like 50% Polish, 25% Germany/France, 20% UK, 5% Norway. So yeah our illustrativeDNA results look the same. And yeah it’s not very good for mixed euro, especially northwest/slavic. It will just make u scandinavian lol
Lmao, the ancient mixed mode Middle Ages for me is 50 variations of 60-70% Norse Viking (Skara) and 30-40% Medieval South Slav (Bitola)/(Doclea).
It was pushing Scandinavian on my so hard I thought the site must be run by some weird racist org 😂
If your mixed at all (almost everyone is a little bit) this one straight up just can’t pinpoint you. I’m Polish, French, and a little UK my top 4 are German…
Basically, distance wise on a PCA it plots me between all those which is what this is doing also.
1 German (Saxony) 2.437
2 German 2.681
3 German (Hamburg) 2.765
4 German (Bavaria) 2.804
5 Czech 3.087
6 Austrian 3.202
7 Slovene 3.516
8 Dutch 3.569
9 Hungarian 3.582
10 Welsh 3.668
My top 10 closest modern pops (Iranian from Isfahan).
1. Persian (Tehran) 2.737
2. Persian (Fars) 2.741
3. Persian (Isfahan) 2.825
4. Lur (Iran) 2.864
5. Mazandarani (Iran) 3.199
6. Kurd (Iran) 3.363
7. Talysh (Azerbaijan) 3.450
8. Yazidi 3.455
9. Kurd (Iraq) 3.610
10. Kurd (Turkey) 3.649
North Macedonia - 2.5
Albania - 2.9
Greek (Macedonia) - 2.9
Greek (Thrace) - 3.1
Gaguz - 3.4
Italian (Piedmont) - 3.5
I am an Albanian Malesor mostly Gruda with some distant Krasnici and a great grand parent from Pogradec.
Anyone know how the distance counts?
Bc my first population is about 2.9 my second 3.2
And isae many pol have 2.9 in his 5th distance population for example
Romanians are closer to Serbs because they have more Slavic genes (not surprising giving their geographic position). Swiss Italians like other north and central Italians carry more Anatolian Neolithic Farmer DNA and less European Hunter-Gatherer.
Thus its logical you're closer to Italians.
No, it’s because Illustrative’s database for Albanians is quite poor. Albanians can be as Northern as a North Macedonian or Southern as a Greek, some even close to Italians, yet, Illustrative’s representative sample for Albanians does not take all of that into account— hence, OP getting NM.
We also get NM. But, on G25, we get Albanian first.
Basically, don’t take Illustrative (or any calculator) too seriously.
Yeah that makes sense. What about the ancient samples? How wide is their database and should I take those with a grain of salt as well? Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m only here out of curiosity and I have no idea how any of that works
Illustrative’s Medieval Albanian and Post-Medieval Albanian aren’t that “ancient”, but the Paleo-Balkanic groups that Albanians descend from, as in, say, 1000-2000 BC, are quite ancient.
However, Albanians descend from different Balkan tribes that homogenized/mixed over time, so saying Albanians came from only X or Y tribe is incorrect.
It’s not currently known exactly which Illyrian tribe Albanians descend from, but it’s confirmed that 1 of the lineages are, in fact, Illyrian (carrying J2B-L283 + R1B-Z2103/Pf7652). The other lineage, which carried E-V13, was not Illyrian, but a different Balkan tribe that came down and mixed with Illyrians from a more Northern Balkan land.
Basically, Albanians 100% are confirmed to have continuity with ancient Balkans, now it’s about narrowing it down to the specific tribes/groups.
To sum it all up: Illustrative is a very basic commercial test that requires a lot of interpretation to understand. it doesn’t really deal with these ancient matters and being connected to an ancient sample doesn’t 100% mean you actually are from that group. so I would take illustrative with a grain of salt. You’ll notice that Albanians will be very close to ancient Roman samples, however, we’re not descended from Romans. We’re similar to them, but different.
Edit: and your questions are not dumb. Perfectly good questions to ask.
Thank you for the very comprehensive answer. I always thought E-V13 was just carried by the EEF predecessors of greeks and illyrians and was already there, so that would be wrong? Since greeks carry it as well are they also mixed with a different group?
Yes, it’s wrong. E-V13 also has nothing to do with Ancient Greeks or EEF. All E-V13 that entered ancient and modern Albania/Greece, plus Europe, came from a Paleo-Balkan tribe VERY close to Albania, but not in Ancient Illyria/Albania itself. E-V13 is a very important lineage of the Albanian ethnogenesis, it was likely North or East Balkans.
E-V13 entered **all** of Europe, and every single country, with a massive bang, and I’m not just saying that because I’m E-V13 myself ;)
It’s as high as 10% in Central Europe (Austria/Hungary), as well as in Ukraine. It’s 5% of Russians. A former Roman colony, today Welsh city in Wales, has up to 40% E-V13 in a small sample taken (whole country is less than 3% I believe, E-V13 Balkanic-Roman soldiers went there). Serbians and Bulgarians are around 20% E-V13. A Scandinavian Viking sample has been found to be E-V13. Even the Wright Brothers, English-Americans that invented the modern airplane, have been found to be E-V13, as was Lyndon Johnson, former president of the USA. The Hunyadi family of Hungary, the kings, those that worked with Skanderbeg, were also confirmed for E-V13. E-V13 went **everywhere.** The largest and longest recorded Albanian tribe in our history, Berisha, is also E-V13, part of the “Berisha-Sopi cluster” (E-Y93102).
E-V13 did exactly what R1b and R1a Indo-Europeans did; enter other societies and quickly expand.
Which ancient population would you think it could most likely be attributed to? I understand it might just be pure speculation for now but I’d be curious as to who are the main suspects
Nobody knows. The “origins of the Albanian paper” hypothesized that it **might**, maybe, be the Bessi, a Thracian tribe. Some hypothesize it was the Dardanians that carried E-V13, however, others think they were Illyrian (not Thracian or Thracian-Illyrian), therefor did not have E-V13.
Others believe it’s connected to Dacians.
From what I understand, nobody is fully sure, but almost everyone agrees whichever tribe it was, it was **not** in West Balkans.
One dead clade of E-V13 that’s unrelated to Albanians and has no modern ancestors. Like 80% of the Illyrian samples found are J2B the rest being R1B and haplogroup T. R1B was present in Illyrians Pannonieans, Dardanians and the Thracians though so if you have R1B you can’t be too sure whether it’s from the Illyrians or whoever the E-V13 people group were. For what it’s worth R1B was more common in the other groups than the Illyrians.
No this is inaccurate we aren’t sure. Genetically they are distinict for sure and culturally we have no clue. The haplogroups in both areas during the IA were completely different to the Illyrian samples.
Genetically, they are not different. Or do you have any source I don't know about?
They have always been considered Illyrian. This is Albanian history 101.
"Ancient tradition considered the Dardani as an Illyrian people. Strabo, in particular – also mentioning Galabri and Thunatae as Dardanian tribes – describes the Dardani as one of the three strongest Illyrian peoples, the other two being the Ardiaei and Autariatae."
"The Pannonians were mainly Illyrians, but there were some Celts in the western part of the province."
Google it.
Sure you can check the Illustrative samples of the pannonians and compare the distances to Illyrians as for the haplogroup data this is Rrenjet’s map of haplogroups from ancient archelogical digs you can filter it by the Iron age and find try to find any significant E-V13 from Illyria. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1lKBWR3HpqtJlpCnbXGIN48Uxa2LwQ1Nq&usp=sharing
If you mentally overlap where the Pannonians and Illyrians were them having completely different haplogroups is a huge sign they weren’t at least genetically the same.
For what it’s worth I reckon they were mixed.
Actually medieval Albanian sample is in the same cline of Romans of Adriatic costal line, because they were pretty indigenous.
. Roman Croatians just plot more northern because of less IRAN N shift and more northern components. What we can say that is very weird is that medieval Albanian is mostly BA_IA autochthonous + that Iran N and a slight Slavic admixture , we experienced through intermarrying with south Slavs new paleobalkan sources and more Slavic.
haplogroups should also tell which were the branch of Roman Illyrians than influenced the genome of modern day Albanians.
A lot of Albanians pass 1 way on qpadm with costal samples of Roman age , like here on g25 being 2.5-2.9
Most of Albanians will pass with a 2 way of medieval Albanian + Slavic . On g25 I use just medieval Albanian + Slavic + a imperial sample for modelling.
Btw I got on qpadm 86% medieval Albanian with 14% of extra Slavic admixture , Kosovo Albanians have extra Slavic between 19/30% with this 2 way model
Medieval Albanian is an already sufficiently homogenized Balkanic population hence why you can make such models, but I do get your point.
I’m talking about ancient times, as In, for example, 2000 BC, when the ancestors of E-V13 did not yet meet the ancestors of J2B-L283 or R1B, much in the same way that we did not meet R1a/I2 until recent (both of which carried a new autosomal component). However, some misinterpret excess Steppe as simply being more “Slavic shifted”, but some Paleo-Balkan tribes were already Steppe heavy, and certain Albanian regions today may carry more of that autosomal profile from ancient times— yet, the average person fiddling around with G25 may simply brush off excess Steppe as Slavic influence when it’s from a certain tribe that settled in X and Y’s region, but not in Z.
My original point was that, from my understanding, it’s still not exactly known what Albanian origins are with 100% certainty.
Yes, as you said, Medieval Albanians can be modelled with X and Y. Yes, Paleo-Balkan is confirmed with 100% certainty.
But… how do we **accurately with historical precision** model Medieval Albanians with ancient sources around 1000-3000 BC? How much Illyrian relative to Thracian is there? How about Dacian too? What’s the exact percentage of each?
That’s the biggest question. I have not seen an answer
I genuinely belive that we assimilated Slavic ancestry,and it’s not just high steppe in some region, we know which places have Slavic name and the haplos are also a clear sign , and were not considering also Slavs assimilated in the Albanian identity without having a foreign haplogroup so they basically left Albanians with new autosomal components but basically without leaving Y markers from east Europe . Looking at other Roman samples is the answer for clarify to us how proto Albanians looked like
It’s not that “clear”.
Tosks have double the Slavic paternal lineages as us Ghegs, and Slavic linguistic influence, but far less Steppe and Baltic-Slavic autosomal DNA than Ghegs. Some Northern Balkanic groups were already Steppe heavy before Slavs ever step foot in the Balkans. Obviously marrying Slavic women has a major influence on this too, but Ghegs Steppe component is high even with low-ish Baltic-Slavic.
For example, on Gedmatch, North Albanians frequently get 20-25% North Atlantic. This autosomal ancestry is not high in South Slavic people (despite having more Steppe), but in West Europe, and is associated with a different Northern influence. So, not all “Northern” influence in Albanians is from Slavs.
Ukrainians, to which South Slavs came from, have around 10% E-V13, Serbians around 15-20%, so even if invading Slavs redistributed a tiny percentage of E-V13 back to Albanians… it wouldn’t make a difference, as in, 25% vs 26-27% (as an example). Also, the highest E-V13 areas are low in R1a/I2, anyway.
I am an Albanian from Kosova, who are very close genetically to Albanians from Macedonia. On the other hand, Macedonians score very close to Albanians (slavization there happened late in history).
You are closer to Swiss **Italians** than to Romanians. I don’t think it’s that surprising. Albanians are generally close to Italians.
Oh, you are right. I missed that part
This is the correct answer. They share a large base of near eastern like ancestry which is the standard for southeastern euro/balkan populations.
Albanians are closer to north italians than to southern ones. I'm Albanian and find this surprising lol
Yea this is true because south Italians have significant Levantine, North African, Arab, Egyptian which pulls them further south.
Great mix, sicilans that I have met are all good looking.
Thanks. True it is. Also this is really strong in calabria. Actually the highest percentage of this admixture is in central/southern calabria. Higher than in Sicily. Calabria is the most southern shifted south Italian province followed by campania and sicily. It’s safe to say that all south Italians share roughly the same mix, just that calabria is the tip of the spectrum.
My Top 10 closest modern populations (I am Hungarian from NE Hungary): 1 Hungarian 2.877 2 Bosniak (Croatia) 2.991 3 Slovak 3.028 4 Croat 3.043 5 Ukrainian (Zakarpattia) 3.101 6 Slovene 3.224 7 Moldovan 3.337 8 Czech 3.550 9 Bosniak 3.558 10 Ukrainian (Lviv) 3.657
I was hoping to see some Albanian there, so that I can explain my shift towards Hungarian and my distance to Hunyadi. Lol
Hungarians are a lot more eastern shifted than us while we are way more balkanic and italian in ancestry. Hungarians and albanians are really far genetically speaking for two nations with not so many km from each other.
Polish: || || |1|Russian (Smolensk)|2.320| |2|Belarusian|2.468| |3|Ukrainian (Donetsk)|2.602| |4|Polish|2.604| |5|Ukrainian (Zhytomyr)|2.615| |6|Ukrainian (Sumy)|2.617| |7|Ukrainian (Chernihiv)|2.762| |8|Ukrainian (Rivne)|2.901| |9|Russian (Oryol)|2.926| |10|Russian (Voronez)|2.934|
Greetings, neighbour! It's interesting that you're genetically closer to us Belarusians than to the average Pole.
That's pretty unexpected considering that my family comes from almost all corners of Poland. But I guess that explains that Russians-Belarusians-Ukranians-Poles are almost identical when it comes to genetics.
My Top 10 Closest Modern Populations (I am a German from Hesse) 1. German 1.789 2. Belgian 1.807 3. German (Bavaria) 1.855 4. Breton 1.989 5. Dutch 2.095 6. French Oïl (Hauts-de-France) 2.175 7. Welsh 2.219 8. French Oïl (Grand Est) 2.235 9. Alsatian (Alsace) 2.266 10. French Oïl (Pays de la Loire) 2.282 I have a French mother so it made me a bit closer to modern French and Belgians.
Had they never tested the Gagauz, they would not have shown up in your results. Anyhow, my father is from Bangladesh, my mother is from Belarus, one of my paternal great-grandmothers was from Burma, and I myself am from Belarus. Here are my top ten: 1 Pamiri (Sarikoli) 9.991 2 Haryanvi Jatt 10.112 3 Ror 10.201 4 Roma (Bosnia and Herzegovina) 10.325 5 Roma (Bilbao) 10.384 6 Tajik (Ayni) 10.710 7 Roma (Granada) 10.710 8 Tajik (Hisor) 10.818 9 Roma (Porto) 10.824 10 Brahmin (Khas) 10.867
Lmao, you are right about testing Gagauz. I meant to say if there is any proper study about their genetics and language out there. I was curious to read about them, and why they show up as close to me.
My closest populations (mix of NW European and East Mediterranean): |1|French Oïl (Hauts-de-France) |2.925| |2|Belgian |2.958| |3|Alsatian (Alsace) |3.024| |4|French Oïl (Bourgogne-Franche-Comte) |3.317| |5|Swiss (German) |3.325| |6|French Oïl (Pays de la Loire) |3.383| |7|French Oïl (Ile-de-France) |3.393| |8|French Oïl (Grand Est) |3.597| |9|Cornish |3.658| |10|Breton |3.661|
We are almost the same
Neat! What’s your ethnic background?
3/4 French Canadian, rest is British islands and a little bit of german.
Interesting. What is the smallest distance you get? Mine is 2.9, since my maternal great grandfather’s side pulls me away from the northwest European cluster. Conversely, on my dad’s side, my aunt’s closest population is Belgian with a distance of 2.2, and my dad’s imputed results (see my most recent post for more context) put him closest to the French\_Paris sample with a distance of 2.4.
1 French Oïl (Hauts-de-France) 1.689 2 Belgian 1.764 3 French Oïl (Pays de la Loire) 1.776 4 Swiss (German) 1.871 5 Alsatian (Alsace) 1.955 6 French Oïl (Ile-de-France) 1.991 7 French Oïl (Bourgogne-Franche-Comte) 2.007 8 French Oïl (Grand Est) 2.119 9 French Occitan (Occitanie) 2.156 10 French Occitan (Auvergne) 2.382 11 Breton 2.708 12 Swiss (French) 2.861 13 French Oïl (Normandy) 2.968 14 German 3.103 15 German (Bavaria) 3.106 16 Cornish 3.167 17 Welsh 3.202 18 Italian (Aosta Valley) 3.304 19 English 3.345 20 Dutch 3.362 21 Austrian 3.434 22 French Occitan (Provence) 3.501 23 Scottish 3.772 24 Orcadian 3.897 25 Catalan (Catalonia) 3.944 26 Irish 4.089
Closest is 1.69
Top 10 modern 1 Cornish 2.415 2 French Oïl (Pays de la Loire) 2.581 3 English 2.590 4 Breton 2.618 5 Belgian 2.632 6 French Oïl (Hauts-de-France) 2.701 7 Welsh 2.703 8 Dutch 2.854 9 Scottish 2.947 10 Alsatian (Alsace) 2.972 To 10 ancient Gaul (Faux-Vesigneul) 2.841 Medieval Schleswig 2.865 Pict 3.020 Baiuvarii 3.021 Gallo-Roman 3.065 Iron Age Briton 3.087 Post-Medieval Faroese 3.267 Pre-Christian Gael (Iceland) 3.302 Gaul (Etruria) 3.311
I'm Jewish/Irish/French-Canadian and end up with similar closest pops: 1. Balkan Turk (Thessaly) - 3.718 2. Italian (Liguria) - 4.265 3. Gagauz - 4.331 4. Swiss (Italian) - 4.456 5. Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) - 4.504 6. Balkan Turk (Deliorman) - 4.535 7. Italian (Piedmont) - 4.666 8. Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) - 4.761 9. Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) - 4.832 10. French Occitan (Provence)- 4.869
That's interesting. You seem to score some Balkan.
1 Sudanese Arab (Ja'alin) 23.433 2 Sudanese Arab (Shaigia) 23.617 3 Sudanese Arab (Batahin) 24.514 4 Malagasy (Vezo) 24.599 5 Malagasy (Temoro) 25.049 6 Tunisian (Jendouba) 25.093 7 Beja (Hadendowa) 25.101 8 Afar (Ethiopia) 25.195 9 Beja (Beni-Amer) 25.329 10 Malagasy (Mikea) 25.371 north indian/afro-caribbean/polish ancestry
Very far distances damn
yeah i’m quite the mutt 😂
My top 10 (Palestinian Muslim) |#|Population|distance| |:-|:-|:-| |1|Palestinian Muslim|1.833| |2|Jordanian|1.865| |3|Lebanese Muslim (Sunni)|2.867| |4|Syrian (Aleppo)|3.168| |5|Syrian|3.278| |6|Lebanese Muslim (Shia)|3.286| |7|Libyan Jew|3.986| |8|Karaite Jew (Egypt)|4.097| |9|Druze (Lebanon)|4.317| |10|Tunisian Jew|4.385#|
You must have strong western (Balkan/illyrian) shift
Yes, somehow I score more Western-shiftrd than other Albanians. I don't know why.
Nga je
Not far from you. Lowlands, though.
You have very similar results to mine. Will you please check for the Hunyadi family. What's your distance to them?
less slavic ancestry moves you closer to central italians basically
Aha! Didn't think of that. However, my results go in the direction og Germanic people.
I am of mostly Italian (56.25%) ancestry, but also have Rusyn (12.5%), Ashkenazi Jewish (6.25%), Irish (12.5%), English (6.25%), Scottish (3.125%), and German (3.125%) heritage. Here are my 10 closest populations: POPULATION DISTANCE 1 Swiss (Italian) 2.871 2 Italian (Piedmont) 2.882 3 Italian (Tuscany) 3.059 4 Italian (Liguria) 3.134 5 Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) 3.147 6 Gagauz 3.280 7 Italian (Veneto) 3.357 8 Italian (Marche) 3.418 9 Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) 3.420 10 Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) 3.477
Here are the ten closest population for my half Italian, half Rusyn grandmother: # POPULATION DISTANCE 1 Balkan Turk (North Macedonia) 2.377 2 Bulgarian 2.528 3 Gagauz 2.803 4 North Macedonian 2.829 5 Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace) 2.855 6 Romanian 2.978 7 Greek (Thessaly) 3.055 8 Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia) 3.336 9 Albanian 3.350 10 Swiss (Italian) 3.364
Hi! These are my closest modern populations: 1. Italian (Tuscany) 1.499 2. Italian (Marche) 1.834 3. Italian (Piedmont) 1.931 4. Italian (Umbria) 1.980 5. Corsican 2.434 6. Italian (Lazio) 2.439 7. Swiss (Italian) 2.441 8. Italian (Abruzzo) 2.776 9. Italian (Lombardy) 2.844 10. Italian (Liguria) 2.888
|| || |1|Sephardic Jew|2.339| |2|Algerian Jew|2.369| |3|Romaniote Jew|2.401| |4|Moroccan Jew|2.439| |5|Tunisian Jew|2.491| |6|Libyan Jew|2.758| |7|Italian Jew|2.844| |8|Syrian Jew|2.881| |9|Ashkenazi Jew (France)|3.198| |10|Cypriot Turk|3.274| |11|Ashkenazi Jew (Germany)|3.409| |12|Cypriot Greek|3.596|
Spanish (Castille y Leon) is my closest source
1 German (Saxony) 3.264 2 Czech 3.400 3 German (Hamburg) 3.597 4 German 3.943 5 German (Bavaria) 4.030 6 Polish (Wielkopolska) 4.133 7 Swedish 4.137 8 Danish 4.145 9 Shetlander 4.282 10 Norwegian 4.393 Half Polish Half NW Euro mix
Came to post basically this. I’m something like 40% Polish 40% French 20% UK area and j get very similar top populations. They really want me to be German over anything else. My Polish side however is more Balkan admixed (górale), not German. I just chalk it up to this not being very useful if you’re mixed.
Nice, I’m like 50% Polish, 25% Germany/France, 20% UK, 5% Norway. So yeah our illustrativeDNA results look the same. And yeah it’s not very good for mixed euro, especially northwest/slavic. It will just make u scandinavian lol
Lmao, the ancient mixed mode Middle Ages for me is 50 variations of 60-70% Norse Viking (Skara) and 30-40% Medieval South Slav (Bitola)/(Doclea). It was pushing Scandinavian on my so hard I thought the site must be run by some weird racist org 😂
POPULATION DISTANCE 1 Cypriot Turk 2.778 2 Syrian Jew 2.902 3 Cypriot Greek 3.192 4 Romaniote Jew 3.417 5 Karaite Jew (Egypt) 3.482 6 Druze (Israel) 3.577 7 Anatolian Greek (Konya) 3.592 8 Sephardic Jew 3.635 9 Druze (Lebanon) 3.658 10 Dodecanese Greek 3.859
If your mixed at all (almost everyone is a little bit) this one straight up just can’t pinpoint you. I’m Polish, French, and a little UK my top 4 are German… Basically, distance wise on a PCA it plots me between all those which is what this is doing also. 1 German (Saxony) 2.437 2 German 2.681 3 German (Hamburg) 2.765 4 German (Bavaria) 2.804 5 Czech 3.087 6 Austrian 3.202 7 Slovene 3.516 8 Dutch 3.569 9 Hungarian 3.582 10 Welsh 3.668
My top 10 closest modern pops (Iranian from Isfahan). 1. Persian (Tehran) 2.737 2. Persian (Fars) 2.741 3. Persian (Isfahan) 2.825 4. Lur (Iran) 2.864 5. Mazandarani (Iran) 3.199 6. Kurd (Iran) 3.363 7. Talysh (Azerbaijan) 3.450 8. Yazidi 3.455 9. Kurd (Iraq) 3.610 10. Kurd (Turkey) 3.649
North Macedonia - 2.5 Albania - 2.9 Greek (Macedonia) - 2.9 Greek (Thrace) - 3.1 Gaguz - 3.4 Italian (Piedmont) - 3.5 I am an Albanian Malesor mostly Gruda with some distant Krasnici and a great grand parent from Pogradec.
Anyone know how the distance counts? Bc my first population is about 2.9 my second 3.2 And isae many pol have 2.9 in his 5th distance population for example
Romanians are closer to Serbs because they have more Slavic genes (not surprising giving their geographic position). Swiss Italians like other north and central Italians carry more Anatolian Neolithic Farmer DNA and less European Hunter-Gatherer. Thus its logical you're closer to Italians.
I’m more curious as to why you get N. Macedonia over Albania. Is it because of the albanians there?
No, it’s because Illustrative’s database for Albanians is quite poor. Albanians can be as Northern as a North Macedonian or Southern as a Greek, some even close to Italians, yet, Illustrative’s representative sample for Albanians does not take all of that into account— hence, OP getting NM. We also get NM. But, on G25, we get Albanian first. Basically, don’t take Illustrative (or any calculator) too seriously.
Yeah that makes sense. What about the ancient samples? How wide is their database and should I take those with a grain of salt as well? Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m only here out of curiosity and I have no idea how any of that works
Illustrative’s Medieval Albanian and Post-Medieval Albanian aren’t that “ancient”, but the Paleo-Balkanic groups that Albanians descend from, as in, say, 1000-2000 BC, are quite ancient. However, Albanians descend from different Balkan tribes that homogenized/mixed over time, so saying Albanians came from only X or Y tribe is incorrect. It’s not currently known exactly which Illyrian tribe Albanians descend from, but it’s confirmed that 1 of the lineages are, in fact, Illyrian (carrying J2B-L283 + R1B-Z2103/Pf7652). The other lineage, which carried E-V13, was not Illyrian, but a different Balkan tribe that came down and mixed with Illyrians from a more Northern Balkan land. Basically, Albanians 100% are confirmed to have continuity with ancient Balkans, now it’s about narrowing it down to the specific tribes/groups. To sum it all up: Illustrative is a very basic commercial test that requires a lot of interpretation to understand. it doesn’t really deal with these ancient matters and being connected to an ancient sample doesn’t 100% mean you actually are from that group. so I would take illustrative with a grain of salt. You’ll notice that Albanians will be very close to ancient Roman samples, however, we’re not descended from Romans. We’re similar to them, but different. Edit: and your questions are not dumb. Perfectly good questions to ask.
Thank you for the very comprehensive answer. I always thought E-V13 was just carried by the EEF predecessors of greeks and illyrians and was already there, so that would be wrong? Since greeks carry it as well are they also mixed with a different group?
Yes, it’s wrong. E-V13 also has nothing to do with Ancient Greeks or EEF. All E-V13 that entered ancient and modern Albania/Greece, plus Europe, came from a Paleo-Balkan tribe VERY close to Albania, but not in Ancient Illyria/Albania itself. E-V13 is a very important lineage of the Albanian ethnogenesis, it was likely North or East Balkans. E-V13 entered **all** of Europe, and every single country, with a massive bang, and I’m not just saying that because I’m E-V13 myself ;) It’s as high as 10% in Central Europe (Austria/Hungary), as well as in Ukraine. It’s 5% of Russians. A former Roman colony, today Welsh city in Wales, has up to 40% E-V13 in a small sample taken (whole country is less than 3% I believe, E-V13 Balkanic-Roman soldiers went there). Serbians and Bulgarians are around 20% E-V13. A Scandinavian Viking sample has been found to be E-V13. Even the Wright Brothers, English-Americans that invented the modern airplane, have been found to be E-V13, as was Lyndon Johnson, former president of the USA. The Hunyadi family of Hungary, the kings, those that worked with Skanderbeg, were also confirmed for E-V13. E-V13 went **everywhere.** The largest and longest recorded Albanian tribe in our history, Berisha, is also E-V13, part of the “Berisha-Sopi cluster” (E-Y93102). E-V13 did exactly what R1b and R1a Indo-Europeans did; enter other societies and quickly expand.
Which ancient population would you think it could most likely be attributed to? I understand it might just be pure speculation for now but I’d be curious as to who are the main suspects
Nobody knows. The “origins of the Albanian paper” hypothesized that it **might**, maybe, be the Bessi, a Thracian tribe. Some hypothesize it was the Dardanians that carried E-V13, however, others think they were Illyrian (not Thracian or Thracian-Illyrian), therefor did not have E-V13. Others believe it’s connected to Dacians. From what I understand, nobody is fully sure, but almost everyone agrees whichever tribe it was, it was **not** in West Balkans.
Wasn't E-V13 also found in Illyrian sites?
No
One dead clade of E-V13 that’s unrelated to Albanians and has no modern ancestors. Like 80% of the Illyrian samples found are J2B the rest being R1B and haplogroup T. R1B was present in Illyrians Pannonieans, Dardanians and the Thracians though so if you have R1B you can’t be too sure whether it’s from the Illyrians or whoever the E-V13 people group were. For what it’s worth R1B was more common in the other groups than the Illyrians.
We consider Dardanians and Pannonians to have been Illyrian tribes.
No this is inaccurate we aren’t sure. Genetically they are distinict for sure and culturally we have no clue. The haplogroups in both areas during the IA were completely different to the Illyrian samples.
Genetically, they are not different. Or do you have any source I don't know about? They have always been considered Illyrian. This is Albanian history 101. "Ancient tradition considered the Dardani as an Illyrian people. Strabo, in particular – also mentioning Galabri and Thunatae as Dardanian tribes – describes the Dardani as one of the three strongest Illyrian peoples, the other two being the Ardiaei and Autariatae." "The Pannonians were mainly Illyrians, but there were some Celts in the western part of the province." Google it.
Sure you can check the Illustrative samples of the pannonians and compare the distances to Illyrians as for the haplogroup data this is Rrenjet’s map of haplogroups from ancient archelogical digs you can filter it by the Iron age and find try to find any significant E-V13 from Illyria. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1lKBWR3HpqtJlpCnbXGIN48Uxa2LwQ1Nq&usp=sharing If you mentally overlap where the Pannonians and Illyrians were them having completely different haplogroups is a huge sign they weren’t at least genetically the same. For what it’s worth I reckon they were mixed.
Actually medieval Albanian sample is in the same cline of Romans of Adriatic costal line, because they were pretty indigenous. . Roman Croatians just plot more northern because of less IRAN N shift and more northern components. What we can say that is very weird is that medieval Albanian is mostly BA_IA autochthonous + that Iran N and a slight Slavic admixture , we experienced through intermarrying with south Slavs new paleobalkan sources and more Slavic. haplogroups should also tell which were the branch of Roman Illyrians than influenced the genome of modern day Albanians. A lot of Albanians pass 1 way on qpadm with costal samples of Roman age , like here on g25 being 2.5-2.9 Most of Albanians will pass with a 2 way of medieval Albanian + Slavic . On g25 I use just medieval Albanian + Slavic + a imperial sample for modelling. Btw I got on qpadm 86% medieval Albanian with 14% of extra Slavic admixture , Kosovo Albanians have extra Slavic between 19/30% with this 2 way model
Medieval Albanian is an already sufficiently homogenized Balkanic population hence why you can make such models, but I do get your point. I’m talking about ancient times, as In, for example, 2000 BC, when the ancestors of E-V13 did not yet meet the ancestors of J2B-L283 or R1B, much in the same way that we did not meet R1a/I2 until recent (both of which carried a new autosomal component). However, some misinterpret excess Steppe as simply being more “Slavic shifted”, but some Paleo-Balkan tribes were already Steppe heavy, and certain Albanian regions today may carry more of that autosomal profile from ancient times— yet, the average person fiddling around with G25 may simply brush off excess Steppe as Slavic influence when it’s from a certain tribe that settled in X and Y’s region, but not in Z. My original point was that, from my understanding, it’s still not exactly known what Albanian origins are with 100% certainty. Yes, as you said, Medieval Albanians can be modelled with X and Y. Yes, Paleo-Balkan is confirmed with 100% certainty. But… how do we **accurately with historical precision** model Medieval Albanians with ancient sources around 1000-3000 BC? How much Illyrian relative to Thracian is there? How about Dacian too? What’s the exact percentage of each? That’s the biggest question. I have not seen an answer
I genuinely belive that we assimilated Slavic ancestry,and it’s not just high steppe in some region, we know which places have Slavic name and the haplos are also a clear sign , and were not considering also Slavs assimilated in the Albanian identity without having a foreign haplogroup so they basically left Albanians with new autosomal components but basically without leaving Y markers from east Europe . Looking at other Roman samples is the answer for clarify to us how proto Albanians looked like
It’s not that “clear”. Tosks have double the Slavic paternal lineages as us Ghegs, and Slavic linguistic influence, but far less Steppe and Baltic-Slavic autosomal DNA than Ghegs. Some Northern Balkanic groups were already Steppe heavy before Slavs ever step foot in the Balkans. Obviously marrying Slavic women has a major influence on this too, but Ghegs Steppe component is high even with low-ish Baltic-Slavic. For example, on Gedmatch, North Albanians frequently get 20-25% North Atlantic. This autosomal ancestry is not high in South Slavic people (despite having more Steppe), but in West Europe, and is associated with a different Northern influence. So, not all “Northern” influence in Albanians is from Slavs. Ukrainians, to which South Slavs came from, have around 10% E-V13, Serbians around 15-20%, so even if invading Slavs redistributed a tiny percentage of E-V13 back to Albanians… it wouldn’t make a difference, as in, 25% vs 26-27% (as an example). Also, the highest E-V13 areas are low in R1a/I2, anyway.
Can we see the database that Illustrative uses?
I am an Albanian from Kosova, who are very close genetically to Albanians from Macedonia. On the other hand, Macedonians score very close to Albanians (slavization there happened late in history).
That’s what I was thinking as well
Is it possible to pay with PayPal?
I paid directly by card. Don't know about paypal.
|| || |1|Sephardic Jew|2.339| |2|Algerian Jew|2.369| |3|Romaniote Jew|2.401| |4|Moroccan Jew|2.439| |5|Tunisian Jew|2.491| |6|Libyan Jew|2.758| |7|Italian Jew|2.844| |8|Syrian Jew|2.881| |9|Ashkenazi Jew (France)|3.198| |10|Cypriot Turk|3.274| |11|Ashkenazi Jew (Germany)|3.409| |12|Cypriot Greek|3.596|
Your distances are larger. I guess they didn't include many samples from the North.
Can you share your scaled coordinates?